Shovelhead Build YOU MUST CHECK THIS - Pistons, Cylinders, and Tappets - The Curve Bike Part 4

[@MidnightExpressMC]

I absolutely LOOOVE the real world, honest and unedited as-it’s-happening situation; right on the workbench with calculator, pen, and paper and all of the pristine parts right in front of you, and us 🔨 Another phenomenal, in-depth tutorial from Professor Baxter in the books - thank you, sir! From southern California ~ Ride Forever! 🦅 🇺🇸

[@MadMexism]

Me being a 40 year old gearhead, watching this video had the voices of my old math teachers yelling MATH IS EVERYTHING in my head. lol. Great work Mr. Baxter.

[@pauldineno6919]

Best line " that's not good, crap." Still chuckling.

[@discipulus777]

Adapt and overcome. That's some impressive engineering, Kevin. Great video!

[@jammer_6245]

Detail...Detail...Detail... Mr. Baxter you are the "Man"

[@thomaskirkpatrick4031]

Can't wait for the Evolution and Panhead builds.

[@DavidSmith-fw6uj]

Love from DeKalb Mississippi USA 🇺🇸

[@hankhamern5456]

Kevin you are the man. I always try and catch up on the video s. Keep them coming.

[@Bannockburn14]

Not really sure what to say except... INTENSE!

[@alstone5257]

Kevin, you are amazing, glad I ran across you.

[@joehovanec1985]

Shovelhead, Evo, and Panhead is great. Sportster Ironheads would also be great.

[@williamrivers1563]

In the “80” SS stroker kits came with tubes you would drive in the cyc. In bottom of cyc. and you would drill down the case and drill into case on inside of case to lower oil return past rings

[@kjetillien4677]

Great video as allways! Looking forward to the Pan and Evo builds !!

[@ronlind1757]

Great video and work Kevin! I'm a retired moldmaker/toolmaker.. so I thoroughly enjoy (and really do appreciate) all of the challenges, calculated steps, and solutions to moving forward in this project. Also, so much looking forward to the Evolution segment ahead! Thanks for such a great channel!

[@Rapsgarage]

I’ve built about 6 Shovel Heads and I’ve never checked that before. Guess I got lucky. I’ll be checking it in the future. Great info and thank you for sharing.

[@KevinBaxter]

Youre welcome sir.

[@martinwall7297]

good lord shake a goat! you are definitely the motor madman, great your doing this, it answers a lot of shovelhead questions, and you're on your game. keep em coming, its pure knowledge

[@ranchodeluxe1]

Berry Wardlaw is a God.

[@TheRoadGlideRider]

Catch this at work.

[@scootertrash647]

Another great informative video, I hope you find a apprentice so you can pass down your knowledge eventually. Not alot of people with your skills,knowledge out there,especially with old Harleys

[@KevinBaxter]

Thank you. I've tried for 20 years...no luck yet. My knowledge was gained from great people far older than I sharing their knowledge plus my own experiences, mistakes, trails and errors. I've also learned from other's errors and successes. Most of my close friends are 20 to 30 years my senior for this very reason....and I have yet to find a young person with the passion, drive, and work ethic, willing to do this type of work. And let's be honest...it is hard work and isn't a high paying profession. The world is changing but with my time left on it, I'm doing my best to preserve the knowledge given to me, and pass it on.

[@stevenpierce4359]

I wish I could do that 😊thanks sir

[@davidgibson3656]

Kevin. You stated at one point that the lip on one cylinder was shorter, .165 and the other was at .200. You measured BDC on both cylinders at different distances. What happens if you add the .35 back to the BDC measurement and the measurement from the top of the hole to the top of the cylinder? The piston still travels the same distance in both cylinders it's just that you lowered the lip to increase compression.

[@KevinBaxter]

Yes sir this is true. Good catch. However, since the distance is based on the hole to the lip, then the piston at bdc to the lip, the location of the hole relative to the piston doesn't change. If the lip was .035 taller, the piston would be .035 deeper relative to the lip so they cancel each other out and the hole remains in the same place.

[@stevemiller7654]

@@KevinBaxter Do the heads actually bottom out on that ring on the top of the cylinders? If so, that would interfere with the gasket seating smoothly on both the head and the cylinder deck surfaces. I do not think that is the case as every engine I have opened up had had full gasket contact on both surfaces.... ....RooDog....

[@Cobra427Veight]

Hi Kevin, I don't know anything about shovelheads apart from my bsa b33 has a 90mm shovelhead piston in it 😗, but was an Automachinist in the 80s and 90s , just wondering about your problem hole , could you drill and tap/fit a cast iron taper A plug . Cheers

[@Rapsgarage]

After looking into this further I've found that 1200 cylinders and 1340 cylinder have the drain hole at different heights. The holes are in different places because of the difference in the stroke. Also 1200 cylinders, once bored out .060 inch are at a 1340 standard bore. This is most likely the reason you are measuring the difference between these two cylinders. S&S has a fix for this that they came up with many years ago. They completely plug the drain hole in the cylinder bore, of the 1200 cylinders, with a plug that has an interference fit and red Loctite. Then they machine a groove, into the left side case, where the oil drain from the heads (machined into the cylinder) hits the gasket deck surface. They groove it 1/4" down then 1/4" sideways ( in an "L" shape) to get the oil into the bottom end without having the oil go into the cylinder. I'm guessing they use an "End Mill Bit" to do this. Since most people don't have a Bridgeport you can do this with a hand drill if you are careful enough. I'm not sure that my explanation is total clear but I hope this makes some sense. I also have some helpful videos on my channel but I'm clearly not at your skill level. Let me know what you think as I'm always up to learn.

[@jimmyp6443]

This is why they are called Trouble heads

[@KevinBaxter]

Funny....i've always called them "Chubble Heads". LOL

[@DeanAWhite-gr8eo]

@@KevinBaxter I've always known them as "Troubleheads", long before I acquired mine. I'm curious about the advantage of using the Jim's top end oiling system. The old H-D design oiling system has worked for 58 years now. The newer EVO design for top end oiling is a definite improvement on the assembly line (less parts and operations = money and time saved) but is it really proven to work better (ie less wear) than the old tube oiling system that's already in place?

[@clintdenman3037]

May I ask your opinion on the S&S shovel engines, have you ever had much to do with them?.

[@twocents2557]

Is there much different clean a pan and knuckle?

[@superplumber5]

Hey Kevin, great videos as always , couldn't you Mill down the base of the cylinder to bring the hole lower in relation to the piston ?

[@KevinBaxter]

Great suggestion...but...compression would go thru the roof and...there isn't enough room to mill that much off a cylinder.

[@77DucMon]

@@KevinBaxter I had the same idea, but then immediately thought, probably no way to get a head gasket thick enough to keep compression ratio in check. If only cylinders were easier to come by.

[@beardedwonder8864]

Kevin, would you be able to do the differences between the 113” and 120” offered on your website. Both are rated at 110-120hp | 125-135ftlbs | 40+mpg, why go with one over the other? Thanks! 2000 RK Carb

[@KevinBaxter]

Much has changed since that was put on the site...done so years ago. We very rarely build a 113/120 anymore because so many parts have improved. Our most common builds now are 117 or 124. Being different stroke, the torque characteristic is vastly. Think BBC and difference between a 427 and a 454.

[@beardedwonder8864]

@@KevinBaxter thanks so much for the response!

[@magic4221]

Why not use the S&S stroker procedure and drill up into cylinder bottom then insert brass sleeve into cylinder to block off hole into cylinder. Then drill hole in deck to exit oil into cases. Done this many times building strokers and it works great. Also completely removes heated oil from rocker boxes being dumped on one side of piston.

[@KevinBaxter]

because the cylinder is rotated 180 degrees, the case on the gear case side isn't wide enough to drill the hole thru

[@magic4221]

@@KevinBaxter Damn. I forgot the rotation. Onward with braze. Don't see any other option.

[@VashSpiegel]

70s Sportsters have the same drainage hole.

[@waden404]

This might be ignorant, im nowhere near as talented as u, but could you also run a bit thicker base gasket to give ya some added distance? Love this video btw.

[@ollelindskog4531]

I'm not sure if you use all you measurements for other things, but in my mind it's much easier to use the cases as zero position and go from there. You dont even have to assemble anything to get it right.

[@Dubhghaill]

can you just use a thicker base gasket and which top cylinder skirt/lip was higher because that"s were you took the measurements from, to the oil hole.. I think it was the rear cylinder had the lower lip, so maybe deduct the height of the lips and see what ya have, so measuring from the top gasket surface to the oil holes....

[@mikekellam365]

You clearanced the lifter block to clear the center case bolt.. Could the deck on the block be too high? You've got .200 difference from front to rear cylinders. Would it be an Option to cut the rear deck?

[@KevinBaxter]

I'm not following you here. Are you saying I have .200 difference between front and rear cyl heights? I don't. The decks are stock height on all surfaces. The reason to clearance the tappet block is due to the STD cases using larger case studs than stock and also because I'm using the acorns. If using stock stud sizes, the tappet blocks would clear no problem.

[@mikekellam365]

@@KevinBaxter It was just a "thought" about what might have caused the discrepancy between the piston "oilers". I've seen Motor Co. and Mopar and GM AND Ford do similar stuff when "machining" blocks and headsso it's not out of the realm of possibility. Clearly, I would have thought you'd have measured deck heights off the crank, but, again, stranger things have happened to us all.

[@dannyarendall5233]

What if the brazing breaks of down the road

[@bruce1816]

Kevin, is there an advantage of using two rear cylinders other than the carb serup your using? Or, is this just a custom build you want to do?

[@KevinBaxter]

Its a custom. Its the challenge of making it work.

[@brentchalmers1436]

Did you neglect the fact that the piston doesn't come up to the top of the cylinder? TDC on my cylinder is: .150" below the lip. Ya need to add that number to the stroke and the oil groove measurement to determine how low the oil ring goes. THEN compare that to the oil hole distance and the gasket space. let me know please.

[@thomaskirkpatrick4031]

Kevin, why braze the hole instead of welding with a MIG or TIG? Doesn't brazing use more heat then welding?

[@KevinBaxter]

brazing uses far less heat and the parent metal is cast iron. welding cast iron presents many more issues

[@darrenlingerfelt5879]

👍

[@scruffy4647]

Kevin, I am late to the party and do not know the history of this engine. Since the build is keeping the motor performance stock, wouldn't it be better to just get jugs and heads that do not require so much machine work? It seems really labor intensive for a stock build. I just did a top end on my 83 shovel. Luckily, minimal machine work. I kept it stock for the most part. I did not measure the clearance on the cylinder oil port to piston oil ring. Must have been okay because its not smoking. Runs good. Probably dodged a bullet. Next time though. Great info.

[@KevinBaxter]

Remember....the front head/cyl is rotated 180....2 rear heads. There has been far more work to these heads and cyls than most begin to realize. think everything from fins being welded in, spark plug hole welded up, another machined, etc..., their shape, rocker box fitment, etc. in other words...aint no going back now.

[@lawrencebrandt8448]

just get a new cylinder grinding welding on the cylinder crazy .

[@KevinBaxter]

the cylinder has been heavily modified...basically reconstructed from stock.

[@tamayo991]

You currently have an "unavailable" T-shirt on from Mason's Custom Cycles, Camby Oregon. It it now closed.

[@KevinBaxter]

Yes I do. Mason is a very good friend of mine. He recently retired. He was kind enough to gift me with the very last shirt he had. He is an awesome fella with a 25 yr history in the biz. Proud to wear his shirt and pay respect.

[@beardedwonder8864]

John, are you from that area?

[@tamayo991]

@@beardedwonder8864 Yes. ?

[@stevemiller7654]

That oil drain hole is inline with the wrist pin, nowhere near the piston skirt. So as long as it clears to oil ring all os well..... ....RooDog....

[@davidfellows6250]

i dont know why you wouldn't want to use that oil pump they made a monster replacement pump. my shovelheads made about 7psi at ideal but if you clipped on of those lines( also bigger than stock) it would bleed out in 3 seconds. thats one of the changes i thought they went backwards on.

[@davidfellows6250]

oh never mind it looks like you creating problems to solve them.

[@jamesmillikan2485]

Why can't you just shim the in bottom of the engine case to bring up that cylinder to put that hole where you need it?

[@KevinBaxter]

The hole is too high. Shim the cylinder and the hole gets even higher

[@jamesmillikan2485]

@@KevinBaxter sorry I wasn't thinking correctly that's means you shave the engine case down for the hole to be correct

[@jackwillson8099]

Shovel head stock barrels are good ,the after market zel Twain cylinder are shit, material the brinell hardness is too soft

[@mynamedoesntmatter9013]

Are those original jugs? How was anyone allowed to have THAT MUCH of a tolerance? That’s shameful.

[@skipprice4376]

Bikes shouldn't be this redickqueuslyy complicated. Or expensive.

[@celang1]

Would you really trust someone that calls lifters, tappets???

[@KevinBaxter]

Sure...or hydraulic lash adjusters too. All one in the same.

[@williamrenner2586]

👍