Shovelhead Problems: Inner Primary Teardown & Killer Rear Axle

[@terrymassey7619]

Hey Paul, after isolating my primary i was having the same problem with clutch slipping when i really got on it in third or fourth gear, yet it was dragging when i would go to start it. It was driving me nuts tryin to figure out what was going on! So I was visiting Hippie and told him what it was doing, first question was "how much oil you got in there?", ends up i had way to much. I remember seeing somewhere ( the manual, I think), to add 1 quart. He said try about six ounces, and clean those clutch plates. I did, and now she works perfect! I can even find neutral now, no more slipping or dragging either. Your plates look great, rough em up and use brake clean, let em dry real good. Also the oil deflector plate between the starter and inner should have a gasket, theres also an o ring in that plate that is usually chewed up. As someone else said, the solenoid has a foam gasket, not an o ring. Sorry to write a book, but I highly recommend isolating the primary, I think I used 1/8 npt pipe plugs, where the oil line fittings were on the back of the inner. It makes the inner easier to remove once its isolated, also It makes running your oil linnes from the pump to the tank much easier (eliminates the T, and chain oiler) Theres one more fitting in the crankcase that has to be blocked off too, make sure you dont block the wrong one, the crankcase breather! Take er easy and good luck! 🤘

[@buttcrackcycles]

@@terrymassey7619 thanks Terry, yeah I just called the foam gasket an o ring, I ordered a few of them, I'm in the process of the isolation, that'll be next week. Def sounds like 5-6oz is the consensus of oil for an isolated primary so that's what I'll do! I need to make one more parts order then I should have everything I need. Still learning on these, appreciate all the help

[@terrymassey7619]

@@buttcrackcycles We're all still learning!!! Lol 😆 Thanks 🤘

[@SaddleTrampTV]

Glad you caught that before the axle decided to walk out of there. I had the axle nut fall off (not knowing that was thing) and the axle moved itself out of the right side swingarm. Good thing it was in a residential neighborhood at about 25 mph and not doing 65 down the highway.

[@buttcrackcycles]

@@SaddleTrampTV yikes that's scary! Yeah, good thing you weren't going too fast

[@deanm4138]

I don’t have a shovel head but the content is awesome and I’m learning a lot about them. I’ve got an evo

[@buttcrackcycles]

Appreciate it

[@MoeLarrycurly1]

I separated both primaries on my 80 and my 70 FlH. I usually put in about 4 to 6 oz then, 30 weight oil not detergent

[@disruption3314]

Another good one. Everyone below covered the things I would have mentioned so we'll skip that. One thing is the Florescent Lights messing with your camera. As for the knuckle.... Yeah you're in the same place as I, the deeper I look at mine the more I find. Being Oct in Co means it's now in pieces in the garage. The list of new parts growing every time I walk in there. Anyway, Stay Safe, Stay Dry and Love Often.

[@buttcrackcycles]

It's actually LED lights but yeah they still get the refresh/frame rate lines going on. I haven't really messed with it to figure out, it's on my list!! Yeah, seems like the more you look at one the more you find! Sounds like you'll have plenty of wrench time when it's cold

[@disruption3314]

@@buttcrackcycles That I will.

[@benderbender1233]

sssup frm grand juncti0n! ✌😎

[@daveshack298]

So...My '84 EVO has an old FX Big Twin drivetrain: 'Dry' chain drive primary, 4spd (well, now a Baker 6spd) tranny, and chain drive. In other words, the inside of my primary looks a LOT like the inside of your primary. Back in 1998, or so, I converted it to a 'wet' primary. I plugged the hole for the return line, pulled the fitting that drizzles oil over the primary chain and replaced it with a fitting that a hose could slip on and fed it into a breather vent, mounted to one of the tranny bolts - essentially, I flipped the fitting around - this keeps pressure from building up in a closed primary. Swapped the friction discs with discs made to work with a wet/dry clutch, and filled the primary with HD primary oil. More recently, when I replaced the 'cowpie' 4 speed with the Baker, I kept the wet primary and; because the Baker has vent holes drilled into one of the top-cover bolts, plugged the vent fitting on the primary, and knocked out the seal in the clutch hub, to allow the primary to vent through the transmission. I used a James primary gasket kit, and they have a little metal 'strap,' included in the kit, that takes the place of the safety wire. It captures the two nuts (that were safety wired) and has tabs that can be bent over the nuts to keep them from loosening up. I also used NEW Nylock nuts on those bolts - and maybe a little loctite too! From MY point of view, if there are newer solutions available that MAKE SENSE, use them! Have fun!

[@buttcrackcycles]

@@daveshack298 I'll absolutely look into that James kit, I think isolating this primary is the best solution and I'm well on my way to accomplishing that, it'll be my next episode

[@johnhall3860]

Hey bud check out one of Red Ryder Canada’s videos. Her and her dad fabricated rear axle adjusters on the square Shovelhead rear swing arms. It keeps them from being crushed. I know this has nothing to do with your axle problem but it’s a really cool way to beef up your swing arm. You take care and ride safe.

[@buttcrackcycles]

Cool I'll check that out I often watch her stuff

[@SaddleTrampTV]

Maybe go with a belt drive primary. No more primary leaks.

[@earlallen-nk6ql]

Good job on your video. You have my attention. I am very interested to see your progress with your Shovelhead. Some of this you are doing is like a refresher course for me. I did some of the same stuff you are doing with your Shovelhead right now, years ago on my Shovelhead. And back then it too, was the first time I had ever worked on a Shovelhead primary drive system. The second time I worked on the primary drive I ended up eliminating the engine compensating sprocket and compensator. That was still factory OE and after the engine rebuild the OE unit was starting to fail. Now sence then I have been told and I have read that going to a solid engine drive sprocket will be the cause of other problems or failure but, I liked the feel it gave while applying the clutch engagement from a standing start. Also the solid sprocket is one tooth larger than the the stock sprocket which stopped me from hunting for a fifth gear it didn’t have. And it didn’t change my final drive ratio, so it didn’t affect my speedometer reading. My speedometer is driven off of the transmission just like the fl models of the era. And the engine torque delivery to the rear wheel seemed to be more efficient and responsive to the slightest amount of throttle application, I was happy and satisfied with the results of the 25 tooth solid sprocket. But I guess it makes life hell on the clutch and drivetrain. Anyway I will be watching your videos on your project. Thanks again, keep the videos coming.

[@buttcrackcycles]

Thanks for watching and sharing your experiences with your bike

[@stinde666]

Cool content love the old Harley stuff,keep it up 👍🏻 please 😅

[@buttcrackcycles]

Thanks! Will do!

[@charleslingerfelt4145]

I don't have shovelhead but they sound great I got a twin cam dyna love watching your channel

[@buttcrackcycles]

Thanks!

[@abigaelperezrodriguez4508]

Whoo! To the best month of monetization! 🙌

[@donrice8026]

all of that dirty oil in the primary shouldnt go back to engine i always seperate them you have vent the primary i use one quart type F trans fluid buy new fiber clutch wet plates you be glad u did if u change the sprocket use a 24or25 tooth inside of primary the 2 bolts should be safety wired back to tranney are lock nuts HAPPY WRENCHING

[@buttcrackcycles]

@@donrice8026 thanks for all that good advice. My plan is to isolate the primary, change the sprocket (I'm already here, might as well) add safety wire fasteners, etc. I may pull the transmission to rebuild everything under the top plate, I expect the bushing in the pawl carrier is worn. Plenty of future videos to make! Thanks for watching and your input

[@MoeLarrycurly1]

Sometimes I put the jack under one side and sometimes the other side I try and remember which side I'm going to work on and put the jack in from the other side. But not always

[@jaynedoe1959]

I put grease in my socket to hold the bolt or nut until it grabs a thread. Or sometimes I actually tape a bolt into the socket with electrical, masking or a bit of gaff tape to hold it in place until it grabs a thread. Also, sometimes a universal joint is needed to gain angle, but can be too loose or wobbly & I add tape around it so it still flexes, but less...

[@buttcrackcycles]

All good ideas! I've done the tape on the swivel, and tape the bolt into the socket

[@GJM866]

That axle nut issue is insane. I've never even heard of something like that. Could you clarify what exactly happened?

[@buttcrackcycles]

I need to do some exploratory surgery on it, it doesn't even look like it was ever welded, I'll report back.

[@theoneracer2716]

Big twin and sportster in the 70s axles were machined shafts with welded nuts on end...later ones were one pc

[@buttcrackcycles]

This one appears to have unwelded itself lol

[@zachwitters3293]

Something I overlooked was gastank venting. The pressure in the tank forces the needle down and really floods the carb. Aftermarket gas cap vents are garbage

[@buttcrackcycles]

Yeah, I'll circle back around to the carb, I've def seen the tank vent do that!

[@d.r.ledbetter2286]

Rhut Rho it looks like you do have plenty of future content coming up lol

[@buttcrackcycles]

@@d.r.ledbetter2286 I've got enough work on this turd that I'll be making videos until Thanksgiving about it 🤣🤣

[@MoeLarrycurly1]

I think there's like a foam gasket at the solenoid t surface I see it's flat .. I thought o ring better seal

[@RImotorcycles]

You can adjust the flow of your primary oiler and reduce it since your crank is pitching in haha.

[@buttcrackcycles]

You know, I've heard of that but my oil pump cover doesn't have a screw? Too late now, I already got it apart 🤣

[@aquahombre]

When I had a shovelhead, old guys told me to soak the friction plates in high octane gas and scrub the plates with sandpaper at least once a year

[@buttcrackcycles]

Interesting! I was thinking to just brake clean the heck out of em and see what happens, I may still replace them

[@stanleybaker5860]

Eh Paul. So what exactly was the problem with that rear axle? My 82 Sturgis has a factory primary belt drive and and had a persistent oil leak coming from somewhere around the engine shalt. I accidentally discovered that one of the two screws holding the clamp around the stator wire was open through to the crank shaft cavity. However this turned out to be part of the problem. I then discovered the real problem was oil seaping past the join between the steel ring and the alloy crank case. The steel ring carries the bearing. Used lots of paint thinners etc to remove oil from that area then copious amounts of super wick in loctite, then finally a good quality selastic. That fixed the problem. Cheers from down under 🇦🇺 Stan.

[@buttcrackcycles]

@@stanleybaker5860 glad you got it fixed! I'm not sure on the axle I still haven't taken it apart, maybe I'll do that today. All I know is it's no good and I replaced it!

[@MoeLarrycurly1]

My nuts on the inside of the inner primary where nylanut so I don't think they need wires

[@Johnrockerldn]

you got to get yourself a bike ramp/table.

[@buttcrackcycles]

One day when I have more space!

[@MoeLarrycurly1]

2 ears first ..makes sense

[@clivewalker5465]

The threes nuts holding the clutch pressure plate should have indents in them , to stop them from backing off from the position you set them , difficult to see , but yours appear to be just ordinary nuts . If you have the original Harley oiling for the Primary , the Engine pulls a very slight vacuum in the Primary case to pull the Oil back to the Oiltank , the Solenoid has to be well sealed , or a vacuum is not pulled , and the oil will not return , building up in the Case .

[@buttcrackcycles]

@@clivewalker5465 they've got them! Hard to see on the camera, you know I actually noticed that the other day on the work bench and was like "huh that's odd" and now I know it's for a reason! Thank you

[@clivewalker5465]

@@buttcrackcycles Also , make sure the long studs in the Clutch hub are tight , they are only peened over , if they become lose , the nut stays still , and the stud turns , and your nuts come lose / off , I had this happen .

[@bananabrooks3836]

This bike was a real lemon 🍋

[@buttcrackcycles]

@@bananabrooks3836 if I knew then what I knew now about this bike, I would've never bought it. But here we are!

[@DEATHMETALCYCLE]

I deleted the lines going to the primary… i have a couple videos about it

[@MoeLarrycurly1]

Wow I never seen that before it's like no weld 🥺

[@buttcrackcycles]

Yeah that's a new one to me lol

[@theoneracer2716]

Read a manual it will help u alot...change out inner primary seal and starter shaft seal...make sure oil return line hose on bottom of back of primary...so thatoul returns to engine which keeps oil amount in primary to a minimum

[@buttcrackcycles]

I have a manual, the main culprit here seems to be the leaking mains sprocket shaft seal from the crankcase. This will go back together as an isolated primary

[@benderbender1233]

✌😎✌

[@StrikeValkyrie]

Could that have been from someone overtightening the axle in the past? I really want to get into Harley bikes and am looking at a few used Sportsters to start with so I've been watching a lot of these videos and soaking up us much as I can.

[@buttcrackcycles]

Very possible someone overtightened it and damaged it and it finally let go. I never did take it all the way apart, just threw it in the scrap pile. Maybe I should dig it out. Sportster is a great start, the later rigid mount bikes are really good as something you can ride without much wrench time, but still "old school" and fairly simple.

[@disruption3314]

DON'T DO IT ! Getting into older Harleys is a mistake ! It will drain your wallet and every bit of sanity you have and when you do make it run for a fair amount of time you'll want to tear it down to replace parts you don't need to replace. HAHAHAH Yes I'm joking (but not really) As for "soaking up as much as you can" great idea. Paul does a good job of diag but mostly what he shows (without realizing it) is how simple things are if you break it down into systems. I.E. turn signals. ignition, axles, brakes and so on. Now on to the video.

[@BachelorHarley]

I’ve been into Harleys my whole life. Love every bit of it. Old ones newer ones. If you can get yourself a used Harley. Start with an evo big twin from 1996 to 1999. Reliable fun inexpensive. Find one with under 20 thousand miles and all original from the original owner. If it’s had too many owners and has been modified or customized avoid this as your first Harley. When I buy a used Harley I usually have to buy new tires and a battery ($1,000) so factor that into the negotiations. And please don’t buy a used Harley at the dealership, you get ridden like a rental horse. A good used evo won’t have any leaks, fire right up, will sound solid and tight with a pleasing exhaust note. Always warm them up thoroughly though, usually 5-10 minutes at idle. A well taken care of Harley, the owner will have both keys, receipts owners manual etc. and extra parts. It’ll look new and the owner will be sad to see it go.

[@buttcrackcycles]

@@disruption3314 haha the sanity bit has me laughing. And thanks for the kind words

[@zachwitters3293]

Get a mid 90's sportster, a great place to start. When people tell you it's a chick bike tell them to screw off

[@kurtfoulke5130]

Using an impact to remove the compensator nut is a great way to break the magnets lose on your rotor. That axle is obviously an aftermarket piece of trash. I like that you are trying to learn but, you sure have a way of doing things the hard way 😆

[@buttcrackcycles]

Magnets are fine, I didn't install the axle, I just caught it before it's a problem. Offer some useful advice instead of telling me I'm "doing it the hard way"

[@kurtfoulke5130]

​@buttcrackcycles I did offer some useful advice - don't use an impact, it not a diesel truck. When a magnet detaches and destroys your stator, you are going to wish that you took it. Good luck

[@buttcrackcycles]

​@@kurtfoulke5130 I was probably too grumpy in my original reply, and I should have asked you to clarify what the correct removal procedure is. I'm guessing I should've used my jam bar and a breaker bar. Anyways, thanks for looking out

[@theoneracer2716]

Solenoid never came with oring to seal it to case its a foam donut from factory..ratchet top play sounds like normal loose fit..harley gas never had tight shift lever feel/response. Many people have been into this primary...look for others mistakes and modifcation. The stock oil lubing and vacuum return is a sufficent oiling system when properly working.if switching to a separated off primary youll be carrying more oil than you had..it will be problematic.

[@theoneracer2716]

Sprocket nut looks to be a supernut/oilseal in it...

[@jaynedoe1959]

Why is there a chain link on your clutch cable at the primary?

[@buttcrackcycles]

@@jaynedoe1959 I have no idea 🤣 someone's attempt at decoration? Another one of those "why did you do this?" parts of this bike

[@theoneracer2716]

Remove pivot screw on top of primary ..quicker and easier

[@user-wh6jj9lt2p]

Too many words, more motorcycle and fixing

[@buttcrackcycles]

Ok thanks

[@alanmeyers3957]

That is such a crap design, they should go to a wet clutch setup like the japanese!

[@buttcrackcycles]

The later bikes are, Sportsters of this era are also a divided primary with separate oil.