Dune: Imperium - We Were Wrong?

Sometimes, we get things wrong. Well, Tom does. In this absolutely massive video, Tom and Matt dive into the design of Dune: Imperium - and how it’s grown and evolved since we last covered it in 2021. We also review the latest (and perhaps greatest) version of the game to date: Dune: Imperium - Uprising. Enjoy!
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0:00 Dune: Imperium Retrospective
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13:23 Dune: Imperium - Rise of Ix
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16:56 Dune: Imperium - Immortality
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19:04 Dune: Imperium - Uprising
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[@ArrrBaron]

Pear is the mind killer

[@joshuaphillips4604]

Is that pronounced pear or pear?

[@Pengi_SMILES]

chefs kiss

[@Churro_Douglas]

Wish I could like this twice

[@nonya1366]

@@joshuaphillips4604 You got it right with pear.

[@Cecekcz]

I must not pear.

[@markoos88]

I'm glad you came clean, guys. It takes some brave chappies to say, 'My take was crappie, I need a slappie, Dune Imperium's a smashie, I take it all backie.' And that you did. Verbatim.

[@VeeeeryyyFaaaastSlooooth]

@@dannylutz194Even base D:I alone is very good. SUSD were wrong, deal with it. They did.

[@alexisfougeres6549]

True, but they also said 2 was one of the bettter player count. I mean, they are entitled to their opinion...

[@mrTannu666]

​@@alexisfougeres6549Yea they really missed on the player count there. Also Rise of Ix is widely considered to be the better expansion. And I've never heard anyone criticize the endgame yet - if anything it gets praised for how tight of a race it is.

[@Marrkix]

​@@mrTannu666 True. Early game is very chess like, where you can follow everyones moves, plan for 2-3 first rounds, prepare openings and responds to other players actions. And end game is almost always tight and emotional, very rarely only one player is the only one threatening to end the game, and will they be able to this round? I agree however, that the mid game gets a bit muddy, either everyone takes over their own niche, like conflict, choam track, buying spice must flow etc. or it becomes frustrating struggle where mentioned in the video turn order becomes too important.

[@mrTannu666]

@@Marrkix Yes turn order can sometimes shut you down from important stuff like Highliner in T3 combat or getting Swordmaster/High Council etc. However since the turn order is set from the start of the game and can not be manipulated you just have to take it into account and plan accordingly. If you are not early in the turn order on round(s) 7/8 then you should not aim for Highliner to win T3 combats and go for a different strategy. The newest standalone expansion Uprising also addresses the issue somewhat by adding the Spies mechanic so you can guarantee access to important places in the future.

[@michaelwolfe9167]

The genius of this game is the tension between the worker placement aspect (I wanna go first so I can get to the good spots!) and the bidding aspect of the combat (I wanna go last so I can see what everyone else bid before I commit!). When you throw in the uncertainty around not knowing if your opponents even have the cards to access the spaces you want to get to and the fact that the number of troops committed is only one of three possible factors contributing to their combat strength, it's just this incredibly heady decision space.

[@Bartnuschler]

And Intrigue Cards make your opponents even more unpredictable. I mean these cards basically allow you to break the games rules in some instances.

[@canamrock]

Little side note on the expansions: lower right hand corner of cards has dots for the source. Blank for OG Dune Imperium, two for Ix, three for Immortality, and then one for Uprising.

[@iam1hobbit]

RIP Tiny Tom. You died as you lived. Tiny.

[@mkeen4393]

I'm only a few minutes in, but Benjamin Gesserit absolutely floored me. Kudos to whoever wrote that

[@jespaq]

The bit with tiny tom was completely insane!! Please never stop making videos!!

[@JonTripp115]

I always like when Pip shows up, even if it's just in Tom's hypothetical recap narration.

[@wookiebarista]

The baseball transition really hit the puck into the basket. 😂

[@Heppy030387]

You clearly don’t have a clue about Curling!

[@iam1hobbit]

One thing I love about the tight 4 player worker placement battle is that it makes going for a third worker/agent less necessary. Sure, you get a third agent, but is any third space worth getting (at the expense of losing the bottom/reveal effect of another card)? Yes, it’s still usually a good thing to get a third worker. But unlike many worker placements, it’s definitely not necessary to win.

[@nfinn42]

This is a good example of how presumptions about a "solved" / "best" strategy bite people in the ass and cause them to misevaluate entire mechanics and games. Popular wisdom about racing to the swordmaster got locked in by early reviews and videos based mostly on the 2 and 3 player game. Then ppl tried applying that strategy to 4 players and complained worker placement was too tight. Was it really? Or were you just trying to force a strategy to work?

[@nfinn42]

Ie if devs had wanted swordmaster to be part of every game they'd have built it in. Like, make it so everyone's swordmaster unlocks at the halfway point. They didn't, they left it optional. That wasn't just a skill tester like "are you a smarty pants swordmaster buyer, or a big dummy?", it was to allow the players to control the worker placement.

[@brianpetersen8184]

Don’t listen to Tom. Rise of ix is the best expansion. He will change his mind.

[@swoppydo3794]

dune imperium is one of the few games that really sticed with our group. Every session is a tense game experience , followed by an even more tense session of discussion about what could have been or could not. it's seriously an all time favourite

[@ryanmiech2380]

This video is what drinking the Water of Life feels like 10/10

[@madDdog67]

Uisce Beatha ftw :)

[@sielaff2112]

I think you guys are Dune a great job

[@glarynth]

They know this franchise from Melange time ago.

[@auroreinara7322]

What I like about Rise of Ix is that it fixes the sad situation of the base game where you're swimming in Solari and have nothing to do with it.

[@flowinsounds]

I like the mechanism in uprising where you can go to the high council multiple times

[@DavePlaysStuff]

So glad you finally landed that dream sponsorship deal from Timothy's Chalomay.

[@stoopkid7134]

Just played Dune : Imperium - Uprising...for the first time last night. Loved it! I'll add that my main criticism, having had to teach it, is that if you have new players that aren't familiar with the source material, a lot of the little rules that are added in for theme can make the teach a bit messy and "Cones of Dunshire"-y. Like how you can't bring worms to a battle until the shield wall token is removed if the combat card references one of the city spaces...I think it's all a masterful joining of theme and rules because I love the lore, but that was my observation.

[@tigerpjm]

People who haven't read Dune are the problem. Imagine! Not. Reading. Dune.

[@stefanopaolini1345]

There is a symbol on the card which represents the worm with an ❌ over it. There's no need for new players to remember which cards these are

[@mrTannu666]

​@@stefanopaolini1345Yea it's well represented visually and I've not had problems with anyone not understanding it. Also some people were complaining that the original game wasn't thematic enough.

[@666lupine666]

we finally get an answer to Brad Pitt's "what's in the box?!" it's "a game." So, that's nice.

[@SuperSocomman]

Nah it’s Frosted Flakes

[@screamingblue7]

A couple of years ago, there was the D&D themed deck builder / zone control game of Tyrants of the Underdark that was overlooked by many but it was one I enjoyed for similar reasons to why I also enjoy Dune Imperium. DI has lots more going on with how those workers get placed, but the range of faction decks that generated victory points, soldiers to occupy zones worth points, and even powerful cards that you retired from your hand into a secret stash where they were worth more points but with the tension of how much utility would they have still in your hand. It’s still a game I regularly return to, and as with Dune Imperium, lots of geeking out about the lore of the cards and characters within.

[@davetalbert8387]

Also some really cool fan-made decks to pump it up a bit more!

[@Hogy58]

@@davetalbert8387 where can i find these fan made decks?

[@davidchiovitti6531]

Worm Matt! All is well in the Dune Universe. Bless the Matt and his water.

[@Thelocalpsychopath]

I was really afraid that we were gonna miss out on worm Matt (Wormatt?) this time so picture my relief when his silly smile appeared on screen. That is the fan service we need!

[@chrism7395]

@@Thelocalpsychopath Shai-Mattud? Or Matt-Hulud?

[@Miksho7]

The confidence on your face after the Benjamin Gesserit joke has the exact same energy as Hannibal Buress doing his Morpheus Rap. I refuse to explain myself in this.

[@zaiquiriw]

been playing this game every month since I got it 2 years ago. Glad to see its vibin with my favorite reviewers

[@m4ttydude95]

I've been watching Dune Imperium videos all week! (Starting with your original review) This is such a beautiful treat :D

[@marcpm]

For those wondering if they had changed their mind about Hansa Teutonica, Tom confirmed on Reddit it’s not the case: “we have not! it's really good. i didn't know what to put on the screen because we recorded that line as b-roll so i just had some fun in Fusion hahaha”

[@p.herron]

Came into the comments for that exact thing. I would have been pretty shocked if they had turned around on Hansa teutonica

[@WesleyHThompson]

This makes me happy (not because I’ve ever played Hansa or have an opinion on it as a game). I just really love that video

[@keybirdgaming4527]

Really happy this review came out the same day that the digital version launched on Steam, Android and iOS. Feels fitting

[@edwardlasso3092]

I especially loved the mention of "Arctic Scavengers" which introduced those mechanisms of holding cards to reveal for comparison and prizes, ala poker.

[@danedaner1357]

Another thing about Uprising is that you can play it with Rise of Ix and Immortality, and it is an absolute blast.

[@chrishillery]

I was hoping they'd talk a bit about how they feel about the expansions on top of Uprising, and if they worked better or worse. But I guess they probably haven't played those combinations enough to say.

[@LeeKenshin7]

Yep, the only way I play the game. It mitigates the worm strategy a bit which seems to be an area of debate on BGG.

[@bobibgg]

@@LeeKenshin7 which expansion would you say mitigates the worm strategy the most?

[@LeeKenshin7]

@@bobibgg I've only ever played with both expansions but if I had to choose, I would say Rise of Ix. It dilutes the imperium row with Ix cards. Also, with Ix, people complain about the shipping track being OP then with Uprising, people complain about the worm strategy being OP. Why not give them both to fight over? Funny though that the last game we played, the player who employed neither strategy won.

[@MrBongoking]

Thank you for the worm cameo. It was worth the wait

[@AAMD1212]

It made me feel worm all over!

[@1commenter2comenters]

I do love a sensitive bromance. The eye contact in the closing is luscious. Def felt third wheel there, but couldn't look away. ❤

[@monkeyunit4533]

Interesting conclusion on Uprising. We found the spies and double worm rewards resulted in greater abundance and less tight gameplay

[@hellabisys]

Another classic from Tiny Tom and Knotty Pickle

[@cutthr0atjake]

Glad you've come round to Dune Imperium. I love both expansions and wont play without both!

[@nathanadler1452]

If someone kidnapped your family, would you play just the base game? Or are your morals on this matter unimpeachable?

[@adult_witch]

thank you for including subtitles!

[@KMReviews]

I still wish someone would explain how they feel about using uprising with the expansions. Does it mess up the spy stuff? Is uprising better in its own? Do you prefer base uprising or the base dune with expansions? Etc.

[@rutulianjoe]

This was absolutely one of the funniest videos you've put out in years, some of the cool ghost energy being channelled here works absolutely brilliantly

[@SinOfAugust]

“It is by pear alone I set my mind in motion. It is by juice of pear thoughts acquire speed, lips acquire stains, stains become the warning… It is by pear alone I set my mind in motion…”

[@jimdaily737]

Was just watching your Undaunted review where Quinns "meh'd" Imperium and i about lost my damn mind. You know what Quinns?! YOU sit down and shut up sir, and let me talk to you a few hours about our Kwisatz Haderach, Dune Imperium. This video is redemption... but i still need to try undaunted

[@atheist_addict]

This was needed outside the podcast. Lots of reviewers choked on this.

[@dghhart]

This was an absolute joy guys! Stuffed full of so many cheesy jokes. I loved every minute of it.

[@mattroso1210]

Uprising fixed pretty much all of my frustrations with the original game! God, Dune makes me feel things babyyyy

[@verdynius]

I think, that out of all your videos, i enjoyed this the most. Also, admitting, that your opinion has changed is something that we need more of. Keep this awesome work up guys, can't wait for your future content!

[@vaultdweller64]

I’m so glad you guys did enough spice to get a fresh look with the Eyes of Ibad! Cheers!

[@PaulMDavidson]

This review is like a fever dream with occasional B-roll of a board game.

[@todorus]

That speck of dust at 17:47 really had me questioning my sanity for a second there.

[@DanDen-gh7si]

Love these vidoes, great job

[@Maggers42]

We have the original two expansions in our group and always come back to the base game. Uprising has just arrived so we're excited to see what it's got on offer esp for more than 4 players.

[@24Nasorangmal]

good job! Thanks for coming back and reviewing it.

[@vulpine81]

You guys had me rolling when you fuzzed out 'the worm'

[@jimicapone]

Easily your best video in the past six months. Thank you.

[@yomamasopoor]

dune base+ix+immo is probably the best boardgame I ever played, I just can't stop playing it. The best part is: the more you play it, the deeper it gets.

[@Electrolux219]

I want “Where thid” on a mug immediately

[@greymatter77]

“The mystery of the pear isn't a problem to solve, but a reality to experience.” “There is no escape-we pay for the reviews of our ancestors.”

[@nazokashii]

Thank you for the review :)! Always a lot of fun ^^

[@jeremywhite92]

I disagree that Uprising is no more complex than the original. Uprising IS more complex. A lot of people will prefer it as a game, but it's a somewhat more complex game -- more mechanics, slightly longer teach. A lot of hardcore games will prefer Uprising -- I actually prefer more streamlined games, so I prefer the original Imperium. That being said, they're both excellent board games.

[@wh3elson]

The strategy might be more complex by a smidge, but the only thing is really adds in terms of complexity is spies, and the objective cards. Which is a bit more rules by it’s like 4 additional rules

[@jeppekjr4618]

Really great video!

[@jcb3393]

What if they just called "Dune: Imperium: Uprising" something like, oh.. I dunno... "Dune II"? (Seemed to work for the greatest RTS game of the 90s!)

[@VaultBoy13]

Dune II was fun and all, but for being the first RTS it was a bit clunky. The lack of multiplayer is also a negative. And, it just fails to compete for greatest RTS game of the 90s when Starcraft was released in the 90s.

[@sarumon17]

I only have the base game, but I love the game best at 4!

[@TheCardboardKingdom2]

You guys are my favorite board game reviewers. Thanks for making another great video!

[@coalitionofseekers9572]

After 30+ years of gaming I can say that Dune Imperium with both expansions is the greatest game ive ever played. Its literally the most tense experience. Every game I start sweating like a nerd.

[@sirgore7677]

I agree, 30+ years of boardgaming, this is the best game i ever played. This is a game for 4 players and you should to play with expansion Rise of Ix.

[@pnpgutterfold]

@@sirgore7677How do you guys deal with the part of the community who thinks GF9's Dune is the better version of the Dune boardgame? I personally think the comparison is awkward in the first place because the two experiences are almost profoundly divergent in what the gameplay offers. But moreso, I see them both having a space to occupy in the board game space because each of the two games serves a different player count. I am so happy I can play D:I solo, but I could never do that with GF9's version (the latter of which lists 6 players as the recommended setup). Thank you both for your time; I really want to know what boardgame veterans with 30+ years of experience think!

[@Cosmic-Ben]

Fantastic video y'all!

[@guyselway4865]

This is weird, I'm planning to pay Dune Imperium tomorrow, I watched the original review, I got sad that the gang didn't like it. The video ended and I swiped it away disappointedly only to reveal a minutes old retrospective. Now the gang likes it and I can be happy again. The timing was impeccable, it's been a real rollercoaster!

[@Owesomasaurus]

I was skeptical about Uprising but its really an amazing refresh of the core game.

[@GBNE-kh1fs]

Cracking video folks -- hugely entertaining :)

[@MalzOhman]

Christmas for Tom!

[@Andy_Quest]

As ever, love the video. Must say I do feel a bit weird about Uprising tbh - I got Base Dune + Ix and now it feels like a ‘remake’ that everyone says is better has come out only a few months later! 😅 doesn’t feel great imo.

[@kash000]

We love uprising but will be going back to DI with Ix regularly as it's a satisfying yet different experience.

[@pnpgutterfold]

Same! This sort of behavior makes me want to purposefully wait a while after a game is released to make sure the version I'm buying isn't a game in late-stage beta. It doesn't matter how they name it; it's a revision of the original base game. The only consolation I get out of this is the fact that Uprising would be harder to teach to my gaming group, as the original Dune: Imperium was already heavier than they had expected. My group also likes engine-builders, so the satisfaction of sitting on hoards of resources later in the game would be absent. If I didn't already own Dune: Imperium, I would have absolutely bought Uprising, but since I already own the original, I really can't justify this board game series taking up any more space than it already has. I'd rather my money go to a new game that's different enough for a new experience. There are MANY games out there that have the same complexity and acclaim that this game has.

[@explorer47422]

I would also advocate Matt's review of TI4's expansion Prophecy of Kings was also similarly rushed and wasn't given a fair chance! It balances the base game sooo much, you don't find many other game expansions that do (or publishers that loyally push updates and errata for their games years later)

[@vvhoknows6958]

The b-roll at 6:42 is destroying me

[@Sputnik34]

being broke it often means that i have to just take your words on great looking games but this is a rare instance that i have played a lot of BOTH games you're talking about! i loved watching this as i felt Matt in the OG video was defending his position, but this is just a wholesome video of love for the game that i love too! :') i love Dune The Desert Planet Arrakis Uprising!

[@waltermilligan4207]

Wow guys. I still miss seeing Quinns more often, but you guys have elevated the humor and production of these videos to new highs. Not enough board game videos that have this much fun now. Great work!

[@linkypete]

Uprising has been my favorite board game since it released in November! Just played it earlier today!

[@bm8985]

This channel is becoming more and more unhinged and I'm here for it.

[@christopherbarnette8350]

SUCHACLEVER BOY CHRISTMAS FOR TOM!

[@Timothyjackman]

this is what my saturday needed. two british men in mustard yellow telling me about board game

[@Sem5626]

ah im glad you swung back around as i got all the OG imperium and primarily play it solo... and its fantastic, pretty sure im not going to bother with uprising but admittedly didn't know much about it just seemed like the same game

[@flowinsounds]

its a similar game, but way better balanced. you get to make a lot of tight choices that make the available cards sing, and there are multiple paths to victory. I find myself watching the other player's resources very carefully. There are a couple of OP cards, but getting them means pivoting quickly to land them, at the cost of losing advantages elsewhere.

[@xtro9296]

I may not always agree with you guys, but you guys always try to be fair and ALWAYS have fun reviewing board games and I love that. Personally my favourite Dune game is Dune 2019 made by GF9.

[@ptastydactyl]

Very funny and informative. Thanks.

[@murrayjeffree8245]

It's such a shame that Hans Zimmer was too busy to do the background music for this review.

[@Elucidarian]

I've been waiting so long for this re-review. I so rarely disagreed so much with SU&SD. I only wish Quinns had been able to appear here for his own mea culpa, which I'm sure is still forthcoming...

[@jonahunderhill]

Thank you for introducing me to chairdog. I read the first Dune book and understood that the books got a little silly. This is a great example.

[@ShunyValdez]

0:59 Now that's how you do a reaction video

[@therelaxafterrevision8073]

Very happy to see all the new cards in this video. I love chairdog

[@IdlestHands]

I find Base+Ix is the best experience (with the Epic variant if you're nasty). While the shipping track is powerful once you've played with Ix some more you'll realise that you can easily win without interacting with it at all. Especially if the other three players are fighting over it.

[@bearwiththeboards8163]

I bought this game after your first review because I love dune and thought I would give it a try anway. I ended up loving the game and I am so glad to see that you guys have come around on it.

[@richardpain]

Does anyone know the name of the upbeat synth tune that plays partway through the video? Tom used it for his application video to join Shut Up and Sit Down. It sounds really rad and I want to hear the whole thing.

[@P4P4Lui]

Timestamp?

[@thelyghter7927]

Great video!!! Now, Matt and Tom need to revisit Prophecy of Kibgs, and schedule a game with Space Cats Peace Turtles :-O

[@sirpoupadou]

Interesting review. We love IX as we found prevented a frequent issue of not having anything fun to do with poor card draft. We dont really find Immortality that good, especially the scarab board, which we feel is more incidental than actively used. We do love the game overall, even if the board looks so trash 🤭

[@eXyliad]

I agree! Original Dune: Imperium with only Rise of Ix is our favorite way of playing

[@irislemon3474]

hey, there sure were a lot of hilarious saucy jokes in this one!! here i thought this was a family show :P

[@jeremiahhammer2282]

Excellent review once again, lads! I ended up tossing the original and expansions in favor of Uprising, and all of your points here echo my own precisely. As an aside I’ll be seeeing LCD Soundsystem this summer. I always get a kick out of your poster :)

[@BellmanDj]

Ah the grande worker. Always saved for the expansion

[@akareject]

I really appreciate this video. Nice to see the crew revisiting a review that maybe didn't hold the test of time. In that vein, I'd love to see Quinns revisit Wingspan. I know one of his major complaints for the base game was the lack of bird representation from around the globe. With all of the expansions Stonemaier has added, I think they have done a fantastic job curating a substantial collection of the bird species that occupy our planet (that being said, Africa is WAY overdue). I also think the Oceania expansion in particular did a very good job of rebalancing the player boards and the bird feeder. Always love the vids regardless if I agree with the opinions or not! Fantastic work as always!

[@vederianl9723]

Speaking of games that need a revisit. I'd like to hear their opinion on Terraforming Mars. With expansions and more than 2 players.

[@Zeroground300]

23:06 Tom is a child and I very much appreciate that

[@TheChumFile]

What is the music at 19:02? I swear I recognise it...

[@rneumeye]

The Silica Gel must flow! 👿

[@browe]

Knotty / Naughty / Nought-y? Pickle... "We're in your house now" 😳😧😏😆

[@johnthompson4969]

Outstanding review. So funny....clever boy

[@javierburgosh]

when are you going to try hegemony?

[@barna-toth]

Looking forward to the War for Arrakis video 🙂

[@martinpersson1412]

Very much disagree on the expansion thoughts. Immortality is fine, but is a kind of "take it or leave it" expansion. It is fun, but every time I play it, I do wonder if the added complexity is even worth it. Especially because I always get a ton of questions during the game about the new icons even after explaning them. Ix on the other hand is what makes the game great and I don't even want to play the game without it. The base game quickly gets into a pretty stale loop of "Get spice->Sell spice for money->use money for upgrades". It gets tedius fast, but IX fixes that issue and makes every game feel way more unique.

[@YoJesusMorales]

Is the audio a bit low on the last couple of ones? I thing naughty pickle could be one of those simulator video games.

[@jorisdelmarcel1480]

Thanks for this review as this pushed me into buying the game. I love the original and it is the only game I pimped with all deluxe components that can be found on Etsy, so I was very confused when uprising was announced. Finally bought it and played it last night and can only agree that it is better in every way. Time to transfer my blinged out bits to the new version!