Shikoku 1889: The Perfect Game for 'Spreadsheet Connoisseurs'

[@derfoss]

For a more violent game at a similar level of complexity, 1830. For a more complex but also shorter game, 1849. For an epic, long, incredibly challenging experience, 1817. For non-18xx games that are shorter, simpler, but scratch a similar strategic itch: Chicago Express, and Locomotive Werks.

[@ZZTX]

Worth noting that Rio Grande recently reprinted Chicago Express under its original (superior, IMHO) title, Wabash Cannonball. Also worth noting that Wabash Cannonball absolutely rules, and you should not be put off by the fugly* board Rio Grande have supplied with it. *fugly in this case meaning "Functional, but Ugly"

[@craggybackhand]

As a relative 18XX novice with only a few hundred plays behind me (lol), this list is on-point. I’d toss in my favorite, 18Ireland, for the category of “variable, weird, mean as hell, makes you feel poor.” There’s nothing else in the genre quite like it. Although, like 1817 above, you might want to make it your third or fourth game because of said meanness.

[@michal.tomczyk]

This!

[@jonaskoelker]

I agree with your suggestions of 1830, 1849 and 1817. I'd like to add 1877: Venezuela, the little brother of 1817 which plays in a shorter amount of time. I'd also like to recommend 1882: Assiniboia to anyone who would enjoy something like 1889 but with a few more bells and whistles, and maybe a bit meaner. If you like your train operations less mean and you enjoy auctions and longer games, 1822: The Railways of Great Britain is very popular and enjoyable. In the category of 18xx-adjacent games, I recommend Rolling Stock. It has railroads and joint-stock companies, it has co-investing and hostile takeovers, but it feels a lot more euro-y and the map has been abstracted away. There's also 18Liliput, with trains and co-investment but no takeovers. It adds an action drafting element and simplifies player turns a good bit. The map is grown throughout the game through tile laying. [I like Power Grid. The 18xx-adjacent titles scratch a non-identical but similar itch; they're more open-ended and the heuristics are a bit less clear, at least to me.]

[@WatchItPlayed]

I see highlighter in a rulebook and I see a kindred spirit.

[@adilgeresu2296]

I wanted to see if anyone else noticed/did that. Both of you are going to board game (monopoly) jail for this sacrilege. (Probably also something you do at your level of play/teach that I’m pretty sure muggles don’t partake in).

[@WatchItPlayed]

@@adilgeresu2296 Join us! Once you do, you'll never go back.

[@borksausage]

You’re a treasure, Rodney! Never change 🤓

[@NoPunIncluded]

YEAH!

[@pfefferle74]

I too always play with a highlighter. Everytime I have to look up a rule during play, it immediately gets highlighted, because chances are I will do that frequently again.

[@SanderPastoor]

I can't believe I've become the target demographic for games like this.

[@IslanKleinknecht]

"But as understanding blossomed, so too did violence."

[@Joshuaaaaaa9]

That was my favorite line.

[@Tom-mb2ji]

Your visceral description of the first rust was perfect. "This game is simple and friendly and YOUR TRAIN IS DEAD HA HA HA HA HA!"

[@analog_arnie]

Tom. This is supposed to be Arcs... But I'll take it. And 1889 is the perfect starting point. And actually one of the shorter of the genre.

[@greglgomez]

same. WHERE IS ARCS?!

[@shutupandsitdown]

Soon!

[@LeviStum]

Came to say the same thing. Even though.. I already.. I already own it.. I just love hearing people talk about it!

[@johncollins8511]

@@LeviStum I love watching reviews of board games that I already own. It gives me a chance to get better ways to trick people into playing them with me.

[@LeviStum]

@@johncollins8511 so true! I feel similarly

[@DanielCornerthe]

It’s finally here! Love Shikoku 1889. Joshua Starr did an amazing job and this title is such a wonderful foray into 18xx.

[@PsychicLord]

I have been an 18xx player since the mid-1970's (I started with the original 18xx (1829) designed by the late Francis Tresham), and thus consequently have built up a large collection of games. I would highly recommend '18 Chesapeake' as the next one to play. Each 18xx will bring new experiences whilst largely keeping to a similar ruleset. Note that you can download an excel spreadsheet that has been designed to help players keep track of both their own, and the companies finances.

[@craggybackhand]

And as exciting as using a spreadsheet to play a game sounds, it really is the best way to finish out the back third of any of them.

[@patvanderreest7416]

I recall some very long and engaged discussions back at my university gaming club back in the day on 1829 vs 1830, and the relative merits. Good times!

[@unwrittenbook]

I live on Shikoku…and I will I ever play the game? No…but it feels so cool to have this underrated part of Japan shown :D

[@JayFitzsimmons1]

That's why I watched the video too! I used to teach English north of Uwajima in Ehime-ken. I used to ride those trains! So cool to see a game about this beautiful area that gets overlooked. I hope you enjoy living in that wonderful place.

[@unwrittenbook]

@@JayFitzsimmons1 Uwajima is such a beautiful area :) I am more around Imabari and Matsuyama. Ehime is really nice to live in!

[@marshallzzz]

I'm amazed such a boardgame exists!

[@Fidtz]

18XX fans coming to comments - "One of Us! One of Us! One of Us! One of Us! One of Us!"

[@BaneWilliams]

Although honestly sometimes the worst gamers to play 18XX games with are its longterm fans. I was lucky in that I found 18XX fans who were more than happy to leave me to my own devices and only offer advice if I asked for it, and only brought up some of the things they might have done differently at the end of the game. Most players joining seasoned 18XX players for the first time... aren't so lucky.

[@unachimba9]

@@BaneWilliams how would you know?

[@BaneWilliams]

@@unachimba9 I've been around enough people who I've gone to show an 18XX and they have told me a horror story. It's fairly common. I'd say out of the roughly 15 or so groups I've shown an 18XX to, all but 4 had at least one player with a horror story. considering these players are from all over the world - it's clearly not a localised issue.

[@briang9633]

@@BaneWilliams if your first 18xx experience is a bloodbath and you stick around, you're meant to play 18xx. My first game was utterly horrific, haha.

[@unachimba9]

@@BaneWilliams It may be. I just don't see how you would have any evidence. You have some anecdotes. I would say the exact opposite. So I guess our anecdotes cancel each other out?

[@portrait-sonority]

The Capstone “Iron Rails” series are a really fun and much more palatable alternative to 18XX for newcomers (plus they’re relatively affordable and look great to boot) - both Irish and Iberian Gauge are fantastic.

[@georgewsinnott]

Yep, came onto the comments to recommend Irish Gauge as a great starting point!

[@IslanKleinknecht]

It's good to see Danny DeVito is still hanging out.

[@andreasthedude3843]

Great to see SUSD diving into 18xx stuff. You already received some fabulous hints on where to go next. So i skip telling you how much fun 1849, 1846, 1882 and 1822 are. I can recommend 1880 because of some twists on how the train rush progresses. A game to trick players into the genre is 18Lilliput with some elements known from casual games and square cards instead of hexes.

[@lukesanwick4840]

Shikoku 1889 was also my first 18xx game, and I ended up getting 21Moon as the second. It's a really cool comparison point because of how completely different it is from 1889. It has a fixed number of rounds, so the game length is more predictable. Additionally, is has a really cool "base" system, where your Starport runs pay out to shareholders, but your Local Base provides revenue only for the company, forcing you to figure out how to allocate your resources to keep the company growing, but also fund expansion. It has less of the financial shenanigans of Shikoku, as it's more difficult to raid company treasuries for your own benefit or dump companies on other players, but it makes up for it in the operational side of the game, trying to build profitable tracks from east to west for huge bonuses, and blocking other players out of areas with clever token and track placement.

[@stefanoperna231]

Thanks for the review. Lots of virtual ink has been spilled about trying to categorise 18xx games and sort them by style or complexity. Here is my experience as a relative newbie who spent way too much money: 1) there are roughly three families of 18xx: 1830 derivatives (such as 1889); run-good-companies games (such as 1846); and auction-based (like 1822) 2) generally, you've started in the right place (1889 is a good introduction to 1830 and 18xx); the next steps will depend on what you like most about the game. 3) if you enjoyed the rusting traps and stock manipulation, 1830 is the natural next step (lookout games); if you enjoyed the route building complexity and calculation, look for 1846 by GMT games. Both are relatively easy to find and not particularly difficult or expensive. Note that 1830 can be quite long without experienced players! 3) you'll find a lot of recommendations on the internet so perhaps check in with more experienced players, but a collection that has 1830, 1846, and 1822 covers most of the ground (except the Mike Hutton series and some of the more odd ones like 18zoo). Hope this helps!

[@mydemon]

I like that style of video. They dont need to play the game 30 times to make a video that bring us value. As long as they're honest about how many times they've played, I like it. Kudos team.

[@willtijerina5149]

How you know when a video like this is good is when it's about a game you would never be interested in let alone ever buy and yet you are entertained into watching the whole thing. On top of it, once finished, you regret nothing and don't wish you had the time back. Huzzah!

[@FictionRaider007]

Honestly after this and John Company, I'm astounded at how pleasing it is to hear Tom go on about a load of corporate intrigue I don't fully understand. Adds some drama and life into what otherwise would sound like very dry topics.

[@rain1224]

I liked the disclaimer at the end about all the negatives, we need more of those

[@jessebuetow7661]

Thanks for a thoughtful dive into the 18xx genre. We discovered this genre during the pandemic and now have soooo many different versions. You captured the progression of the vibes perfectly, from cooperative and breezy at the beginning to cutthroat and mean at the end. My partner plays with us and she gave me a shirt for xmas that says "All is fair in love and 18xx." It's a good reminder that we are going to screw each other over at some point and we shouldn't take it too personally. (Yeah right) As for your next step, 1846 is a good place to go if you want a different style of 18xx. 1846 focuses more on the operation side and is more about running good companies than it is about stock manipulation. 18NewEngland and 1861/67 (also by Grand Trunk Games) are excellent steps as well, introducing minor railroads to the picture. It's a vast universe of games you've entered! Welcome to the club!

[@WuschelofDespair]

I love Shikoku 1889 and I've been the guy going around trying to get my friends into playing it to try 18XX and many of them actually liked it. But it takes time for you to get into the game to be able to properly teach it to other because while the rules are clear and mostly simple, it's not harder than a heavy euro, the strategies and the implications of the player actions or not obvious at first. Our games usually last between 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 hours, nowhere near the 5 or 6 hours, however my very first games of 18XX with 18Chesapeake were also 5 hours long. The thing is, at some point you will reach a point in the game where all track is pretty much laid and all shares are sold and what's left is pretty much just running the bank down and that's something that should just be calculated using either a spreadsheet or the 18XXc app, saving you an hour of boring game play. The fun is in the building of your railroad empire. An alternative would 18Chesapeake, which is designed specifically as an entry 18XX game. It's not as pretty as 1889 but also not as ugly as most 18XX games. It's less mean but also less interesting in my opinion. 18Chesapeake is the easier and maybe better entry point but Shikoku 1889 is the better game. Thanks for giving this niche genre some positive mainstream board game media attention. Jfyi: the track lay at 7:32 is not legal, you cannot create a town where there isn't one on the board.

[@stephenowen9382]

Welcome to the rabbit hole! Francis Tresham started all this with 1829 - a rather sedate affair complete with surveyors based in the UK. He went on to develop 1830 for the US based Avalon Hill which was a much more cut throat enterprise with stock market shenanigans and dumping of companies. Two types of 18xx materialised - those based on 1829 (really the redesign 1825) and those based on 1830 such as Shikoku 1889 (with one less company). I have played lots of 18xx games and prefer the 1829 based ones - I strongly recommend 1880 (China - 14 companies, 7 foreign investors, Chinese revolution etc) which will take 3 sessions to complete but well worth it. A simpler design is 18Lilliputt which has most of the features of 18xx but without a map, an action selection mechanism reminiscent of Age of Steam and a rudimentary stock market. It is fun and plays w/I 1-2 hours. Enjoy!

[@AUMOTmusic]

1882 is my pick for if i had to choose😅 *one* 18xx game. Shorter playtime, economic shenanigans, funky asymmetry between companies, and excitingly restricted tile-laying make it a favorite, without straying far from the core rules introduced in 1889. For a cube rails game that integrates some of the funkiness of 18xx in a more accessible format, I would for sure shout out Amabel Holland's *The Soo Line*.

[@heavy_dice]

Amazing insights! I’ve played a few and the next two steps would be: 18Chesapeake as more of a sidestep 1846 is a nice step up with not too much more added to it Similar games would be: City of the big shoulders Posiedon is an Ancient Greek 18xx

[@dettonator11]

Check out Railways of the Lost Atlas. It seems like the goal was to make it as modular and beginner friendly as possible. There's even a micro game mode (read: a regular board game length) to let beginners dip their toes in without needing to play for 4 hours.

[@BoardGameBlitz]

I was so excited to see this video!! Great video and I’m glad you mentioned the roleplaying feel! I was surprised to learn how the games actually felt thematic when I played them! And because of 1830: Railways and Robber Barons I learned what Robber Barons actually were 😂 1889 is my favorite for introducing people, but 18Chesapeake might be better for a table of completely new players. It adds a train export which helps with the train rush. Part of the reason new players are slower is because the pace of the game is player driven (with buying the trains). So buying trains faster will make the game faster. You don’t necessarily need next step 18xx games, and everyone has different favorites. 1889 is also good with experienced players (and it’s my current favorite 18xx game - partly because it’s one of the few I’ve been able to play since having kids).

[@recklessroges]

Tom: "'I'm phoning it in". Also Tom: knocks it out of the park with a delicious little amouse bouche.

[@alanias101]

As for another entry point I am excited about Railways of the Lost Atlas. It has a modular board players build which seems fun and "micro" games that only last through the first rust. I think making it through to a rust shows you the arc of the game and could be a useful litmus test without the commitment of a full game.

[@Blaklyte-TV]

I'm been waiting for so long for you guys to review 18xx games :D So happy you finally did.

[@drunkenflamingo]

1882 would be a fantastic next step. it builds on what you have already learned, has some fascinating sharp edges that you will run into quickly, and typically plays in about two hours.

[@dimitrihoraites969]

I like Imperial. It's a war game where control of countries is based on a stock market like in 18xx games and it leads to hilariously dark realizations. For instance, I don't have to pay for an army if its dead before payday.

[@glennmartin6492]

I've found Railways of the Lost Atlas to be a very good intro that had 90% of 18xx in much less time. It also has stricter rules for options.

[@schirmed]

This really is a great review, structured in the same way that many people get to know the genre: first with a kind of weird disgust, then curiosity, then a mixture of excitement and boredom, and then with a vicious glee. There is a spectrum in 18xx games that is often mentioned as "operational" games vs "financial" games, with the former more focused on getting the right track and stations in the right place at the right time, and the latter focused on manipulating the value of companies and screwing other players into unwittingly taking control of failing ones. 1889 and 1830 are both fairly in the middle of this spectrum, so another exploration could go in a few different ways. There are a number of smaller games centered around US states (18FL, 18MS, 18TX, 18NEB, etc.) but I don't know if these are neecessarily worth the investment after 1889. I think a further game after 1889 should involve other weird features in a compelling mixture, and so I'd recommend: The Old Prince 1871, 18Ireland, 1848, 1856 maybe. Really anything with a cool mix of new new things to try.

[@jasonsample71]

Such a great game/genre. It is nice to see SUSD cover games in this realm. Tom did a very good job with this review.

[@danielHL824]

Outer Wilds desktop wallpaper - love 🙂

[@TrendyMonks]

i think tom needs to do a "board games like outer wilds" video.

[@joseywales1439]

Came looking for this comment - I literally clapped my hands in delight when I spotted it!

[@SkaiaMechanic]

I love Satisfactory. I love working out the numbers on Excel spreadsheets hours before setting down my first foundation. This is my kind of game...that I would get no one that I know to play and enjoy with me. A dream game, in many senses of the word.

[@GPlewright]

Railways of the Lost Atlas just started landing in the hands of backers and is an 18xx with customisable maps and scalable game modes so it is possibly one of the quickest in the genre now - definitely quicker than Shikoku. It also has a groovy art style. If you want to go more complex than Shikoku, 1830 is the grandpa of Shikoku (and a very very long game) but maybe more interesting is Tom Lehmann's 1846 which was basically his attempt at taking 1830 and making it better by adding a few twists to the classic rules.

[@carillonatreides]

Loved the sign-off, but as a huge 18xx fan this was big and special to me!

[@derekliljequist1086]

Poker chips make a world of difference along with printing off dividend tables for quick calculation from BGG. Beginner 18XX: Shikoku 1889, 18Chesapeak, or 1846 (is more focused on running a good company but stock shenanigans can occur on rare occasions). After trying any of the above and getting used to it you should have no problem with other ones in the sub genre. Although I'd recommend trying 1830 because the stock market shenanigans are so great and its just a classic. I've played around 50 games of various 18XX titles now and I can't wait to try more. The next one i really want to play is 1817 which is maximum stock market shenanigans as it adds options into the mix.

[@sammuriello8732]

Where to go next depends on what you're looking for: 1817 is my absolute favorite 18XX game. It goes deep into the stock market, introducing the ability to short shares and take loans, which vastly increases the ways to make a company succeed (and fail). The biggest downside is the length and complexity; 6-8 hours is a lot for a game that you aren't sure you'll like yet. However, it's been in my top five favorite board games since I first played it. If you liked investing in the best company, building strong routes, and winning because the companies did spectacularly, try 1846 first, then 1861/67. These are straightforward partial capitalization games, which means the companies will be overall healthier. If you really liked the cutthroat stock market side of things, you should definitely play 1830 next. It's the classic game that sprouted most of the genre, and it's got a lot of things that 1889 removed to be more accessible that many find spectacular. There are also a few weird ones. 1862 has a lot of different types of companies and has VERY tight track. 1822 and its spinoffs have lots of bidding throughout the game. The new Railways of the Lost Atlas has a modular board and lots of companies with special powers.

[@westloar]

Printed this out, made all the tokens, board and player boards, all the track pieces. Played it once with a friend, got absolutely smashed. Never convinced anyone else to play train sheets again

[@sykes1024]

Glad to see you're an Outer Wilds enjoyer.

[@JackGaynor-uv2nm]

16:15 -- As a lead-in: Imperial 2030 (not 18xx, but same mechanic of you-run-a-thing-but-maybe-don't-care-about-it, same theme of heartless capitalist, slightly less spreadsheet) As others have noted, another entry point is 18Chesapeake and 1846 is a great next step, especially if you like map making more than stock trading.

[@MrPitzz]

I was also thinking about Imperial, the original one. It's one of my oldest games and I love it (haven't played the 2030 version though). the rules are easy enough to teach them to non-boardgamers

[@kinganzelak]

1861: Railways of the Russian Empire (which comes with 1867 Canada) is a good next step. Adds merging companies. I suspect the upcoming Railways of the Lost Atlas will be an even better starting point than 1889 but waitinf for it to be delivered.

[@50mm_]

1889 is fantastic. As others have mentioned, Chesapeake might be your next, but you'll eventually get to 1830. I'm excited for you!

[@kinganzelak]

Just to be really clear, I've played a ton of 18xx and his take that "this is a great starting point for 18xx" is 100% correct.

[@_Cervantez]

"Railways of the Lost Atlas" is an 18xx game that's just fulfilling from KS with a modular map, which allows for both long and short plays

[@kirbywarrior1]

Great intro to a genre, Tom! I personally love the games of Leonhard Orgler (aka "Lonny") for the steps/variations he tries to make the mechanisms more accessible and not as punishing (if you like a little less bankruptcy anxiety at the table, like me). His 18Mag is a big twist, where instead of shares in the train companies being the big things players buy and sell, it's the ACTIONS (building stations, extra track lays, even buying trains) that are the share companies and the train lines make money completely separately (they do have trains and run, but have treasuries and pay dividends independent of the stock market). Also, trains don't rust and are all available for purchase from the start, yet the train purchases curiously still tend to follow the same arc. He also designed 18Lilliput, where train companies don't even have enough shares to transfer ownership, companies can't go bankrupt, and each player takes action selection cards First Class-style (what's that? A Euro game from Lonny's 18XX and Russian Railroads collaborator Helmut Olney???) to modify their companies' routes and everyone runs their trains at the end. It's a completely different rhythm, but might be nicer for players used to Euro games. Not Lonny's, but Arabella is a dice drafting 18XX Roll & Write that is probably the most accessible of all. Dice values are tied to track, company shares, and trains, and using a die gives you access to the matching value of any of those things. It was a crowdfunding project that suffers from not the most stringent of rules editing, but it's serviceable and another creative take on the genre. Finally, try Trick of the Rails! It's a sharp little trick taker from Hisashi Hayashi that gets the vibes of growing company values and manipulating portfolios in alternating tricks, but plays in a snappy 45 minutes, tops.

[@Jezequel_z]

'Building satisfactory factories' and using the music from Satisfactory? What have you been up to lately, Tom?

[@Aldrenean]

I know I loved this easter egg! Satisfactory is amazing, I've only stopped playing to wait for the 1.0 release.

[@Jezequel_z]

@@Aldrenean I'm patiently waiting for 1.0 so I can resume my addiction.

[@mmacmartin]

1889 I think is one of the better entry-point 18xx games. It's got the "default" ruleset, as it's basically the same as 1830 with a different map. Another good entry game I might suggest is 1846 - part of the reason is as a GMT game it should be relatively easy to get a hand on. Many of these games get a single print run ever, or you have to build it yourself - 18AL is a great shorter 18xx, but you really want the print and play, which is a lot of effort to go into before playing. My current favourite is 18CZ - railways in the Czech Republic. Over and above the 1889 ruleset you encountered, this one has multiple "sizes" of railway and mergers between companies. It also has a good 2- and 3-player variant. It also features "train exporting" at the end of every round, which will naturally advance the game and push the trains' development even if the players are slow at it, and a round limit for the end of the game. My brother's favourite is 1870 - I doubt it's easy to find a copy now days though. Missouri / Kansas / Arkansas and environs - it's a very flat rectangle of a map. This one features bonus destination runs - if the railroad connects its historical start and destination, it's worth a massive bonus. In addition, it features "share price protection" which is not something I've seen in any other game I've played. This rule allows the President to purchase shares of the company that are sold (if and only if they can buy all the shares sold as a chunk), saving your share price, and giving you more share of the company - up to 100% even, so a dividend is just putting it all in your pocket!

[@adilgeresu2296]

As a next step I would recommend 1861/1867. I think the two give a great foundation for heavier 18xx play. 18xx almost always runs long and the truncated versions seem to sacrifice too much to shave an hour off the play time. For shorter games I’d just go with city of the big shoulders, age of steam and 1889 (it’s short for the genre!).

[@Shazzner]

Yay, I'm glad you're showing of 18xx games! It's my favorite boardgame genre by far. As far as next stopping points 18Chesapeake is a good next step, but I would also recommend 1861/1867 also by Grand Trunk Games. The rules involve smaller companies, called minors, that can grow up or merge into a major company. It can be a longer game however. For a shorter game: 1882 by All Aboard Games, which has some unique rules to it and can often end in bankruptcy (in a good way).

[@JustACuteFox]

1882 > 18Ches every day of the week, for specifically the reason you mentioned.

[@EinundzwanzigPanzer]

Try 1846! It's a completely different "style" of 18xx game, more focused on the operation of companies than stock manipulation and it has some very unique mechanics - but it is also very elegant and pretty streamlined, it plays very quick for an 18xx game and tends to be even quicker than 1889. 1846 is very divisive in the sense that people tend to love or it hate it - I think it is amazing excactly because its so different and "contained"/streamlined. 1846 are consindered an entry game in 18xx series and so is 1889, but 1889 is ofc much more representative of the 18xx genre as a whole. Another classic entry is 18 Cheasapeake, but it is overall pretty similiar to 1889, but probably even quicker playing (but with less decisions also). 1867 is longer & more advanced but also very interesting - it represents another "branch" of 18x titles with the focus on an "AI" controlled national railway, that gobbles up (nationalizes) player owned railways througout the game.

[@jjschm20]

1846 or 18 Chesapeake should probably be next. 1846 is more of a “run good companies” game which will give you a different experience than the stock shenanigan heavy 1889. All of this is leading up to what I consider the best games in the series for me: 1830, 1862, 1817, 1880.

[@FosukeLordOfError]

I love the Tom decided to make a video format

[@AUMOTmusic]

The Donald Fagen reference.... Tom is truly a board game critic meticulously created in a lab to appeal solely to me 😭

[@dfergy77]

Genuinely had to rewind as I was sure I'd misheard him

[@NicholasLee0]

For a Brit. I think you would find 1862 very interesting. It has quite a very moving parts to learn. I specially like it as a solo puzzle. If you leave on the table and take turns during a break it is a bit like playing a series of card puzzle games. It's also good at other play counts. 1882 is very good at 3P.

[@Valectar]

As a faster and simpler introduction to the genre, I think I can confidently recommend Rolling Stock Stars. It removes the rail laying aspect of the game entirely, instead having you manage corporations that buy up smaller private companies. The private companies are divided into eras similar to trains, and gain a maintenance cost as you progress to higher tier private companies until you're forced to close them lest they completely drain your corporation's bank. The private companies also have synergies with other private companies that give corporations that hold both of them bonus income, and can be traded between corporations and from players to corporations. Additionally, the entire game fits within an astonishingly small package, all the components being cards including the stock price chart, where each stock price is a card which you lay out into a grid, also adding the small twist that each stock price can only be held by a single company, and so changes in stock price can be amplified if the stock price a company would change to is already taken. Having played a number of 18xx games, Rolling Stock Stars has been a hit due to it's ability to take the core of the corporation managing, stock trading gameplay and pack it into such a quick and concentrated package.

[@IvesAerts]

As much as I like Rolling Stock Stars myself, it frightens new players even more. Rolling Stock Stars is spreadsheets-the-game to the extreme.

[@camroth89]

Rolling Stock Stars is even more intimidating for new players than 18xx.

[@Naeddyr]

Thanks for the explanation on the Connect 4 joke, I genuinely didn't get it.

[@mati11223]

Of 2 games I've played in the system, one being 1830, I'd whole heartedly recommend 1889 Canada. In it's use of ltittle chrome elements, players are left to be very flexible with the decisions on the map & on the stocks market. Big deal for me was ability to lay up to 2 tracks which mind you speeds up the game quite a lot.

[@danieldavalos3562]

I dig 18xx, but don’t have the time or mind for them to be my thing. To scratch a similar itch for dummies like me, I recommend cube rail games, especially Capstone’s Iron Rails series.

[@alexnorris5874]

1882 assiniboia is a great entry in the series. Our group started with 18Chesapeake, but quickly moved to 1882 due to the shorter playtime. It is more of a knife in a phone booth experience though, but one that comes in at 2-3 hours, which is significantly less than most. It has extremely limited tiles (creating a race due to there only being 1 or two of each), a $9000 bank, which fit my 200 Roxley iron clay set, and it is set in Canada! It plays very well at 3-4 and at 5-6, although they feel very different based on which grouping you are in. At 5-6 there is a lot of teamwork required (starting with 360 or 300 dollars per player). In fact, one 5p game I chose to never actually run a company, and I ended up winning. It was fun to switch it up.

[@djmcguigan]

18Chesapeake is an equally good but different starting point. Then hit the classic, 1830.

[@pedantic7158]

18chesapeake is the general other onboarding point for sure. I'd recommend doing something very different from there though, see how weird the genre can get. Go play with minor gauge and no money in 18ireland or draft stock options in 18india.

[@JustACuteFox]

I found 18Ches to be an awful starting point despite it being so frequently recommended as one. It protects the players from themselves far too much. The game has, every time, dragged on for 2, 3, or even sometimes 4 times its advertised box length. You want players to bankrupt -- not to protect them from it. So 1830 is much, *much* longer than 1889 and has the added "fun" that players can lose before they have even started playing with its horrifically balanced private companies.

[@djmcguigan]

@@JustACuteFox 18ches was my starting point and I enjoyed it. It has training wheels to protect people whilst the removal of a train early on keeps the game ticking over even if only one person is buying - it should never run that long! That said, like the step to 1830 (not the best, but a good next step IMHO), it's down to taste. From the outside looking in all 18xx are the same with only small differences between them, but these small changes can be huge. What rocks one persons world can be so much meh to others. My point is I'm glad you've found your spot in a wonderful hobby, I just think "awful starting point" is a little strong even when combined with "I found". I do entirely respect that it's both your opinion and your right to say it!

[@JustACuteFox]

​@@djmcguigan The "training wheels" are specifically what is wrong with it. And, no, this isn't some gatekeeping uber-nerd take or anything of that sort. It is legitimately a design flaw in that it begets specifically the type of bad experiences that Tom already cited in this video. Specifically in that it leads to extremely drawn out and very boring endgames. 1882 bankrupts players with a very limited tileset and an aggressive market -- and you want that. Fail hard and fast and play again. Skip the bad parts. 18Chesapeake later had an expansion called Off The Rails. This adds back in the aggressive market and makes the Diesel trains much more expensive. With that module, 18Ch becomes a better beginning recommendation. But, not in its stock form. 1882 > 1889 >>>>> 18Chesapeake

[@kroomiester]

I think it’s great this game has gotten you curious about the genre. I’d say there are very few 18xx games that hold up a meaty level of decision space and player interaction after you’ve become familiar with them. Here are my recommendations of the ones that do: 1817: the best game in the genre, but also nutritiously long. This is one that will replace an all-day game session like TI or similar. It’s worth the time, and worth the rules overhead. It is a very elegant and intuitive design after you see it on the table. 1830: imo the second best in the genre. Shikoku is based on 1830, like most of the genre, but none hold a candle to it. Every decision in 1830 is as meaty as the last, and unlike in Shikoku, every investment carries tremendous risk. 1830’s train rush is far more interesting than most, and you’re often left with intense games of chicken. I love 1830. Games I haven’t played but trust the folks who stand by them: - The Old Prince 1871 - 1870

[@Cosmitzian]

Just to mention, MDF magnetic counters exist. Once i bought 4 of them, i found little reason to use anything else for when you need to count stuff that's often increasing/decreasing by whatever random values. Sure, it might not be very readable from across the table vs poker chips but for a lot of things, say Azul score tracking or Spirit Island energy management, it's just fine and cuts out a lot of the fiddling for change. Few games require that readability from values across the table or if they do, or they feature 'chunky' tokens for its gameplay for tactile reasons, it will probably provide them. Plus, you really don't need metal coins for each individual game. MDF Counters or sure, some rando poker chip set is enough.

[@TastyPinecone]

Wild take, an awesome entry is The Old Prince. Very interesting decisions, merging companies, interesting tracks and a great subversion of established conventions. Its in the prototype stage, available online as a PnP but definitely worth a gander!

[@mrddueck]

I recommend 1846 as a really fun companion game to 89. It’s quite different but still pretty simple and has a satisfying rocket-propelled pace. I also recommend 1882 as a close sibling to 89 that is even meaner, more brutal and more fragile. It’s hilarious. For alternatives to 18xx as a whole genre I recommend Imperial 2030, John Company 2E with deregulation scenarios, Bear Raid, Acquire, and Splotter’s Indonesia.

[@daem0nfaust]

Oh yeah, can I do pivot tables with it?

[@SanderPastoor]

Asking the real questions

[@lynnmckay9273]

As someone who came to them fairly recently, these games feel like if you strapped a staid euro-y efficient engine builder game to the side of a thunderdome and it's great. I don't normally go in for route building but it turns out if you add a stock market it becomes a whole different ball game.

[@rileymccarten4616]

Try Indonesia next! It's the most fun non-train financial game out there!

[@MarjoleinVeenendaal]

I had never heard of this series of games and I already know that this is right up my alley. But I will never get a group together to enjoy this with me. It looks so good though!

[@mortaneus]

Recommendations: 18Chesapeake from All Aboard Games (very similar to 1889, though more gentle) and 1846 from GMT (more euro-ey). 1889 is one of the shorter ones. The biggest time-cutter is experience. Some will recommend 1830 (the 2nd 18xx ever made), but it's a significantly longer and more hard-edged game than 1889. If you're feeling *particularly* scrappy, see if you can find 1849. It can be extremely short, due to the likelyhood of bankruptcy. It's like a high-wire act over a pit of razor blades...that hate you. Edit: Also, a big set of poker chips doesn't have to be super expensive. You can find large sets of 'dice chips' for relatively cheap at Target and Amazon. Look for the 11.5g ones. They're hefty, have decent slip-resistance, and are so cheap that damage doesn't matter as much. I have a large set of Roxley's, and still reach for my box of dice chips for 18xx games.

[@jonathoncampbell6813]

"It's a Connect-4 Joke" 🤣

[@davebarta8086]

1889 is generally the starting point for most 18xx gamers as it has much of the same rules as the granddaddy of the genre 1830 for which many titles are based but with a smaller map/bank so it’s shorter. 1846 is typically an shorter game. As for next steps if you want to get spicy, 1882 Assisinboa adds some interesting bits as does 1880 China and if you want to get extra spicy, especially with stock round shenanigans, 1817 is a favorite. 1841 is also considered the peak of complexity for the genre, or indeed board games in general, but it’s pretty rare.

[@adamnowland6744]

That sneaky satisfactory music at the end to tailor to my factory making need :)

[@bertman4]

Nothing to do with this video but on episode 256 of the podcast, a phrase was said that would be perfect as your new catchphrase. It was around 41:17 in the podcast, and the phrase was "Board Games. Who knew?" It encompasses everything. Who knew it could be so much fun? Who knew it could be so mentally stimulating? Who knew it could reveal the hidden side of people? Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

[@cthulhudreams7578]

Realistically, 1889 is one of the shortest entries in the genre. You'd be best off playing it more often so you get faster, not just mechanically at the game, but also in terms of your strategy. One of the less desireable (but worth the tradeoffs) features of 18xx is that game length is heavily driven by how fast people by trains. Very experienced players might get to the last trains in a game of 1846 in the 3rd set of ORs, whereas less experienced players might need 6 or 7 sets of ORs to get that far. Combined with the fact that experienced players will also play more quickly, the quantum of increase between slow and fast players is insane - a 3 player game of 1889 played by experienced players can realistically be two hours including scoring - the same game with 3 new players is going to be 4-5 hours and maybe longer. Another 18xx flaw that you can address is that if nothing is really going to change, don't play the final set of ORs out. Just figure out what the payout is, increment the stock 3 times, pay out 3 times the pay out (and do this with a piece of paper or a calculator). This speeds up the game quite a bit by skipping the final resolution when it doesnt matter. Similarly, if it is obvious who has won, just call the game. Don't do this until all the rusting has happened because its sometimes not obvious who is going to get stuck holding the bag. In terms of next steps, the next step is 1830, because you're more likely to go bankrupt (which makes the game shorter), its the Big Daddy of the genre which all else are spawned from, and it's mostly the same rules as 1889 so it has lots of transferable skills. Also, going bankrupt from being forced to buy a diesel is like half the fun. From there, 1882, or 1836JR for an 1830-a-like with different vibes, 1849 for something very different, 1846 for something else very different, or 1822 for something very different again. (play a short scenerio or something, but this is longer than 1889), are the places to go and you can often buy them. If you play 1846 get someone who is VERY good at 1846 to show you how it is done.

[@Justegarde]

Tesla vs. Edison is a good starter game for the genre as it’s an 18xx disguised as a turn of the century, dawn of the electricity age business game.

[@MrAlistairSpalding]

Spit out my toothpaste at the "Wierd and sexy" line. 😂

[@ZoidbergForPresident]

I hate "spreadsheet games" but I watched the video anyway and enjoyed it. Good job! :)

[@mightygodking]

Shikoku is definitely one of the best entry points into 18xx gaming as a whole: it has the "core" 18xx experience, since it's basically just 1830 (more or less the ur-18xx game) on a map with fewer pitfalls and traps for new players. All-aboard Games' 18Chesapeake is the other entry point 18xx players typically recommend since it *also* does all that stuff, but adds a "game slowly rusts trains for you" mechanic which speeds up the game a bit and forces new players to develop faster. Next steps into 18XX? 1822: Railways of Great Britain is a much longer time investment for overall play, but adds an auctioning mechanic a lot of players really, really like - practically every stock round has players competing to buy companies and private corporations, which is fun, and also you get to buy dinky little companies and merge them into bigger, fatter companies, which is satisfying. 1861/67, also by Grand Trunk, doesn't have the same freewheeling auctions of 1822 but it's got the merging dinkies-into-biggies action, and crucially takes less time than 1822 does, although as an 18xx it's still going to be a long game by most gamers' standards. GMT published a new edition of 1862, set in the middle of England, which is insane chaos on so many levels as 18xx titles go, and oddly more forgiving for newer players than many other 18xx games since company bankruptcies aren't necessarily the end for players. "Games that provide the same experience but in less time/with less upkeep" is a harder ask, because these games SORT OF exist but you absolutely don't get the full experience. The majority of simpler stockholding games, like Airlines Europe or Acquire or Pan Am or most cube rail games (Wabash Cannonball/Chicago Express/etc.) rely on *accumulating* stock in companies, but typically don't have the stock sale mechanics that make 18xx games such a thrilling tightrope walk; if you end up being deeply invested in a mediocre company, well, that's just you playing the game poorly, better luck next time, et cetera. Imperial, Mac Gerdts' stockholding-game-disguised-as-an-area-control-game, is probably the closest thing to a streamlined 18xx there is that still gives you that pump-and-dump thrill 18xx can give you, and it's still a pretty heavy board game (two to three hours or so).

[@LLafdfaf]

Second the imperial and add Steam. 1882 is another good rec that's possibly easier to transition to than '30

[@mightygodking]

@@LLafdfaf I dunno about 1882 as a title for mostly-new-players, simply because it's more or less designed to end the game by having a player go bankrupt, rather than a bank break.

[@picton101]

I fell into 18xx games heavily a few years ago. I tried 1830, 1822 Railways of GB and I KS'd this. Sadly, after a few games we were done with all of them and promptly sold them on, including Shikoku when it arrived. In my hunt for an approachable train game series I found Eagles Games' Railways of the World. The games are much simpler but also we've had so much more fun. These games have you building track, upgrading trains, completing objectives (open and secret) and all done on lovely big maps and with chunky components. In addition the game also abstracts a stock and shares system whereby players have no money to start but take bonds every time they want money. It means you can do whatever you want but every bond is worth negative points AND you have to pay your investors every turn which means its best you try and make your rail company profitable asap. I think the Railroad Tycoon boardgame is a reskin of it. Also, Age of Steam (another boardgame) is very similar but with less plastic minis.

[@danopticon]

Thee Oh Sees album cover artwork in a board game review?? Tom truly is a man of breadth AND depth!! 🤗

[@marcbennett9232]

WOOT! wasnt expecting a Satisfactory reference! ive put it off but I might have to give 18xx a try.

[@Moustacheman90]

Someone else has 100% already mentioned the Capstone Iron Rails series (Irish Gauge, Ride the Rails, Iberian Gauge). The other suggestion would be City of the Big Shoulders - it's more worker placement and less route building...but still keeps all of the company mechanics.

[@coffeeandmelange4509]

6:47 Love when I see a little Oh Sees slipped in where I don't expect it! Cheers 🍻

[@IGM0937]

For me, Irish and Iberian Gauge are good lighter versions of 18xx games. They are one of my favourites as they each focus on certain mechanics of 18xx and make whole, fun, quick and well thought out games around them. These have already been covered by No Pun Intended for anyone interested in checking them out now.

[@glassjaw328]

For shorter and less complex than 1889 you'd probably need to go 18XX-adjacent with cube rails games such as Irish Guage or Iberian Guage. Personally I think another great entry level title is 1846. If you want to go the other direction, I'd suggest 1862. It takes place in UK, features 3 different train types, 2 different ways to launch companies, variable setup, and to top it off a solo mode.

[@caulfield78]

Loving the Outer Wilds desktop wallpaper. Excellent taste there.

[@johnmerlino581]

Shikoku is a very good starting point, primarily because it plays quickly and the board isn't so large. So it FEELS less daunting. However, because the map is small and therefore the track placement choices are more limited, the auctions become much more important, skewing the overall experience. Our group feels that 1822 (The Railways of Great Britain) is probably the best starting point. Larger map, less constraints, more interesting choices, and because it takes place in Britain you can roleplay about not wanting to start your company in Scotland.

[@eflood328]

As an avid 18xx player, my first recommendation would be to play 1889 until you have ~10 games under your belt. Each one will be different enough that you shouldn't feel static, and the play time will drop considerably as you become familiar with the map/common routes/options, and how to manage the train rush (when in doubt, always buy trains!!). You should get 1889 playtime to under 3 hours, generally. With very experienced players, it takes around 90-150 minutes. Then, oddly enough..my second recommendation is a much longer and complicated game, either 1817 or 1822. The first game or two, simply agree to play until the 5Ts are out and then call it at the next Stock Round. You'll see so much of the bulk of what the game is offering - and you'll see how different 18xx can feel within the same basic parameters. And then you can iterate more quickly into trying different things out. I'd also echo another person's comment about Rolling Stock Stars being an interesting second game which isn't overlong, but it's definitely very different from "standard" 18xx.

[@kalmanperenyi6696]

I have not yet tried 1889. I started my 18xx journey with 1846. I really loved it, the stock manipulation part is slightly less cutthroat than the 1830 like (inc. 1889), but it has a lot of special "arbitrary" rules for historical accuracy. I also tried 18Chesapeake, which is a somewhat more simplified 1830, it is rather user friendly. And the other question: similar but shorter game I would definitely suggest City of the Big Shoulders (alt. title Chicago 1875), you guys had a great review of it few years back. That has the same stock manipulation / company ownership rules, but instead of building railways you develop factories, so that part of the game is more straightforward and simple, therefore revenue calculation is "a breeze", compared to a later round 18xx rev calc.

[@KittenCuddlerMN]

Semi-random note: Outer Wilds is the greatest game ever

[@binchamers]

Tom’s desktop background agrees!

[@ImperatorLizard]

Tom, you are a treasure.

[@jameser3z21s5sdd]

Iberian Gauge is a great non-18xx alternative that follows a similar structure and plays in 90 min. It also has some bite to it

[@Junk-Troller]

6:48 Everyone's favorite paladin Harry Dubois

[@andriypredmyrskyy7791]

Okay NGL that's a cool graph mad respect

[@18xxtraining625]

1889 was the go to intro game for a very long time. It was the first 18xx game I purchased. I tend to enjoy the shorter games, I would suggest 18MS (All-aboard games, designed by Mark Derri k). I use this one as an introduction because it is short, and has tones of Eurogaming. It has a fixed number of Operating rounds and scheduled train rusting, a fairly gentle entry into the gender. 1846 The Race for the Midwest, (Published by GMT, Designed by Tom Lehmann of Race for the Galaxy and Res Arcana fame) this one is not as mean as the 1830 variants, still shorter to play and featured as one of the games of the World Boardgaming Championship. 18SVEA is a very small 18xx game it is part of All aboard games wave 6, designed by Jonas Jones. I want to warn you though. 18xx games will "rust' most of your euro games.

[@Naruga]

SHIKOKUを好きになってくれれたといいね。 もしなければ、”このゲームは最高”だと言ってくれるまで俺んちの地下室に閉じ込めておかなければならないんですが。

[@Tolinar]

You got me to laugh with "or Trains". Classic!!