Sifu for Life? Can You Have More Than ONE Sifu?? | The KFG Podcast

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EPISODE NOTES
I take on a Patreon question about some of the traditional “rules” regarding the “one Sifu” policy and other traditional matters.
The KFG
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SPECIAL THANKS
Genius Supporters of the Kung Fu Genius:
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This episode was brought to you by (Baller/Closed Door Level):
Mark Anderson
Matty J
Roberto Santiago
Bradley K. Faulkner
Francisco Ortiz
Mark Perna
Jack Chiu
Topher Mowry (thatotherwingchunguy)
Troy Battle
Thank you to all of our Patreon supporters at the Previewer and Insider Levels!
Crew -
Producer: Mikey Deane
Co-Host: Dre Ison
Editor: Andrew Lin

[@GoldenbellTraining]

Running behind on my episodes, but very interested in hearing this one after our chat last month. Hope you, your family, and your students are doing well, Alex!

[@TheKungFuGenius]

Doing well! Can’t wait to come back to Thailand in December!

[@GoldenbellTraining]

@@TheKungFuGenius Bro, my wife called me all kinds of dummies when we got back to our hotel. She said we should have just met you guys in Chinatown. There was a Starbucks in the lobby of our hotel. We could have chatted until you needed to go and my daughter could have just gone upstairs to bed. 🤣

[@TheKungFuGenius]

@GoldenbellTraining that’s what we have wives for haha

[@kyrolantsberger2659]

This was very well done, and addressed the matter in a very mature and contemporary way. There indeed are competing values here, people want to be reverent to the art and the culture that it grew from, but also politics and personalities are at play in martial arts schools. There are indeed those individuals who want to train for 6 months and then cut ties and open their own schools. On the flip side, there are schools that fall apart due to abuse and criminality. These are not easy dynamics to navigate.

[@TheKungFuGenius]

You did it better than me, this comment said what I needed an hour to say!

[@ruiseartalcorn]

Great stuff! Interesting discussion :)

[@antonioparker1999]

This is so much needed Thank you Sifu Alex for sharing this information! This is almost a hush discussion for most, thank you for bringing this to the forfront of the Vingtsun Community

[@krumpliii]

So many people see their own style as their religion, and their teachers as priests. Being closed minded is the biggest hurdle they can have, but it's okay because their knowledge will never be tested anyways.

[@janlim1282]

At this point dre is more culturally educated than the rest of us

[@TheKungFuGenius]

In theory, yes. In practice...? hahaha

[@janlim1282]

@ hahahahaha 😂😂😂😂

[@MartialArtsMiddleground]

Always great discussions. I just subscribed to the Patreon as a Previewer. I trained in Aikido for a long time and a lot of these cultural / traditional things in both Wing Chun & Aikido are very similar.

[@TheKungFuGenius]

Much appreciated! Thank you so much.

[@AngloSaxon1]

Mixed martial arts means more than one teacher, so yes, many of the ancient kung fu masters had many different sifu so yes of course you can have more than one teacher.

[@TheKungFuGenius]

Thanks for you comment. I wasn’t referring to ancient times as the serious lack of written records on this topic, makes it nearly impossible to say anything that can be verified or considered evidence. Lots of hearsay, little evidence. I was discussing the more contemporary attitudes of Chinese instructors, in particular those in Hong Kong. I should’ve been more clear about the extremely narrow context in which I was discussing this issue. Thanks again for commenting.

[@MrOsiric]

Thanks KFG! When I heard you say the translation of Sifu is kung fu father, that felt like a lot to take in... certainly more personal than even the Japanese word Sensei. So, one gets a new father, now does it carry the weight of responsibility of a son? I suppose this might be the fine print that's nagging at my subconscious. :) Events so timely that it boggles my mind! Last sunday I was horrified at what happened between the EWTO and IWTA. I feel It was rightful for LT to have asked why EWTO openly breach contract teaching outside. The bounderies were meant to prevent conflicts. What could have been resolved with an explanation of commemorating Kiernspect's legacy turned out to be a letter handwaving his input ever since and declaring independence instead!! Curious, Weeks prior the heads of EWTO issued top level certificate signed by Kiernspecht on Jan 10 2025, when he died November last year! Also, is Kiernspecht one whose signature differs often? It's really different on all 3 certificates! Seems to me this was preplanned? For all of Leung Ting's flaws, did he really deserve that? He just lost his brother and his top student in November... I was glad to see him again to greet him a happy new year! Now this happens! Sheesh! It felt like a backstab on a level that surpasses even Mr. wackypedia! I'm sure even Kiernspecht would be appalled to know what these new heads did. A MA group's leaders that casts away its elders like obsolete garbage for future profit is the makings of a McDojo. They just have to wait their turn to get the shaft. I gotta hand it to Sifu Norbert's Maday's heart warming response! Perhaps the responsibility of the kung fu son is to pass on the teachings EXACTLY how the Sifu wanted. Its a tall order. I'm certainly glad LT found a true son to his doctrine... Congrats to sifu Maday on his Menkyo Kaiden (dunno what its called in Chinese)! Makes me wonder, LT always insisting about doing things "his way" might not only be "his way" to begin with? :)

[@TheKungFuGenius]

Thanks for commenting. I’m not going to discuss the current LT openly, but I may address it for my Patreons.

[@MrOsiric]

@@TheKungFuGenius :)

[@DrTzeus]

People who did not stay with their first sifu talk this talk. Those of us who have had the same Sifu for decades do not. But we are lucky to have found a good one first, and lived a life path that fit this ideal. You make a great arguement against all the nonsense around this subject. I agree with almost everything you said. However,..... Casting doubt on loyality is easy.....staying loyal to a teacher who makes things hard, who does not explain things well, etc is difficult. Westerners are a weak-minded fickle bunch who need to be reminded to "like and subscribe," so ofcourse they wander away from their teacher to find another, and another, in an endless search. Why waste time on them if they won't give a pledge of loyality of some kind? Today most peope are their own personal expert anyway and just use teachers until bored with their own failure to follow directions and move own with excuses and the continued casting of doubt. Ego prevents people from honoring their first teacher when they advance past them and find better instruction. They make excuses about character flaws, fees, or sillyness of the "made up titles" but they forget, they knew nothing and had to start somewhere, and this person took on their burden and helped them. Now they dishonor that trust giving away those lessons to other schools or even starting a training hall next door? Honoring the first sifu is also about staying in business. Many of these try to have it both ways, selling the heros name even though they "are their own Sifu now" just so they dont have to pay a fee. For Wing Tsun, it has difficult specifics, and cross training can weaken their progress, which then is often blamed on the Sifu, mismatched muscle memory from other Martial Arts with different punches and stances for example. For this reason alone a beginner should have only one Sifu and do only what they are told. Only one source "a little bit in the beginning." When they broke away from their sifu, they spread this doubt casting and soiled the reputation of Wing Chun as a whole, when they smeared their sifu and smeared the methods they ran away from. The cross trainers are the worst, claiming Wing Chun doesn't work but they are using mismatched muscle memories, like putting car wheels on a motorcycle, and then complaining that brand of bike wont work? I fully understand why Yip Man did not want to bother with people already trained in conflicting patterns. Today we have to deal with "know it alls" that refuse to follow directions and only want to "take what is useful", then complain that WT is no good. Now the public complains about all the "politics" in the clan and how it doesn't work the way all these WC inventors have changed it. Maybe some of them really should have quit all together when they left their sifu, instead of making up all these excuses why their ego didn't need to follow the oath they took in the beginning.

[@ThomasHenderson-c8e]

Sifu in regards to the 10 Commandments they are stone exch tabloids in churches ⛪️ virtually everywhere.

[@TheKungFuGenius]

No, we mean the original ones which, given that they were supposedly created by “God” himself, should be the most precious artifact around. They don’t exist. Copies in churches which are based on multiple translations, mistranslations, and intentional interpolations don’t count.

[@NH1973]

If a sifu openly says that he'll never teach everything he knows, should he expect to remain someone's sole source of learning?

[@TheKungFuGenius]

Exactly

[@talentbong7446]

I think we are living in a pretty different era from the time period when most of those rules where in place, although I suspected that the rules and regulations don't exactly apply depending on region and culture as well. For instance, my main teacher is only a few years older than me and does a hybrid of several similar styles while visiting other schools and also having an interest in Japanese Swordsmanship while my teacher's teacher has 2 main teachers who knew each other. Now, if we think outside of Chinese Martial Arts, it gets even wider since Western Swordsmanship, Filipino Weapon Arts, Japanese Koryu, Malayan regional styles, Traditional Thai styles, etc ... get mixed into obscured chinese Martial arts lineages that are literally hidden away somewhere.

[@TheChristopherHope]

This is a subject that hits close to home. My Sifu went to prison. When that happened my first reaction was "fuck the rules - I should get to decide who my Sifu is." Now some time has passed and justice been served I have reconciled with my Sifu, but I did not enjoy the dilemma of balancing my own personal moral instincts against the Chinese cultural expectations that comes with the Sifu - Todai relationship. I don't begrudge anyone who feels the need to "divorce" their Sifu - and if they want to say someone else is their new Sifu I would 100% respect that because you don't know what has happened behind closed doors for someone to make that choice. Kung Fu etiquette be damned.

[@TheKungFuGenius]

Great points man.

[@GoldenbellTraining]

Yes, that was a very rough situation. I felt bad for everyone. Unfortunately for me, I'd only spent 2 days with him the entire time I studied Wing Chun, but those 2 days left a lasting impression. He told us to start watching the demos at the start of Shaw Brothers movies to pick up some moves to practice against Wing Chun, and that sent me down the rabbit hole of discovering/rediscovering HK kungfu movies. I probably wouldn't be doing this now if not for him.

[@WholeCosmos]

Good episode as usual. My school and Sifu are my cousin and the school of life. This is the Do.

[@CinematicTendency]

So, do you wanna exchange?! 😂

[@leetmaster1]

I've seen too many students following these misconceptions. Their usually the ones that get a blackbelt after 6 months and stars teaching others. I have a tendency of calling these people normies because they come in and do their time for the prestige. It took me 10 years for me to get a blackbelt because I didn't feel like I was ready

[@TheRealTomahawk]

How many of those books in that bookshelf have you read this year? How many books did you read last year?

[@TheKungFuGenius]

No idea!

[@constitutionalanarchists6511]

What does the KFG think about soft weapons such as rope darts / meter hammers

[@TheKungFuGenius]

I think they are super scary in the hands of an expert! Some of those videos on KZbin are incredible!

[@_Pauper_]

4:32 if you can’t handle the wording of the tediously worded question

[@josephperkins4857]

How about someone do a series of interviews with martial artist and retired actor Ho Chung Tao ( aka Bruce Li)?

[@GoldenbellTraining]

It looks like the guys at Severin Films are already on top of this as part of their follow-up to "The Game of Clones" vol. 1

[@EricRosenfield]

You and Mike still have to fight for the right to call yourself my Sifu

[@TheKungFuGenius]

Hahaha

[@CinematicTendency]

Is it just me OR the first question is too long? 😂