Sigma SD14 Foveon DSLR First Impressions!

[@snappiness]

I wanted to be really honest with my initial experience, so as to not over hype this camera. I wouldn't want someone spending the money on one only to be disappointed. It's a camera that makes you really work for it, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. That said, there's a lot to love here, and the final review will reflect that in both word and images. :)

[@sheldonspock5566]

@snappiness Nice review. I love Foveon sensors and therefore Sigma cameras with all their quirks and constraints. You left out of your video which lenses you tried and didn't like and which one is the sole keeper! I'd be keen on getting that feedback from you. Thanks again!

[@0bscura]

I'm a long-time Sigma shooter. I had the SD9 and still have an SD14 and SD15. Everything you're staying is true. Carry a gray card and shoot manual white balance. That way you can get consistent results and speed things up when doing your raw conversions. Compared to modern cameras it's got a steep learning curve. Once you've figured it out the Foveon sensor can deliver amazing detail and beauty. When my daughter was little we went on many photo shoots and Sigma used one of the images on their web site. One day I asked if she wanted to do a photo shoot and she did. I set up strobes and she picked up the camera and pointed where she wanted me to stand! She was so small she could barely lift the camera up. That photo is the one I still use as my thumbnail.

[@RudiW1510]

Call me weird. But your comment convinced me to buy a SD14. :)

[@OneMonthTwoCameras]

So excited you just released this! I was planning to record my DP2 Quattro review tonight and this makes me even more enthused to get all of my large and varied feelings onto tape.

[@snappiness]

Oh good, I'm excited to hear your thoughts! It's such an interesting body design, and then having that later quattro sensor is something I'm curious about. I wonder how their menus, controls, and software side changed on the newer models too. I wanted to get this video out before my broll voice over type video on this camera, because those don't go too much into detail into any flaws of the camera. But this camera definitely isn't perfect... Wouldn't want someone buying it without knowing what they're getting into haha. The next video will show more love for the camera :)

[@OneMonthTwoCameras]

@@snappiness they made leaps no doubt between this and the Quattro line and I’m happy to say the latest feels downright modern and well designed by way of menus and ergonomics. That said there is no native xf3 support in LR for the latest files, though it will shoot DNG. But that has its own issues. I feel like this review will of mine will end up being annoyingly long

[@chrisdwyer1477]

@@OneMonthTwoCameras how are the later foveon sensors compared to this? Do they handle those red highlights better?

[@OneMonthTwoCameras]

@@chrisdwyer1477 I have never used the early SD line up but I love my Merrill and Quattro sensors. You can see my Quattro reviews on my channel if you want to see the results I got.

[@Xitrun]

After having tried many brands, I am finally became Pentax user and have many nice crop cameras&lenses (all limited+many others). To try and enjoy fullframe I decided to get a couple cheap Nikon bodies like d700 and d610 (because K1 from Pentax is still ridiculously expensive). But. Once I tried Sigma merrill dp 1,2,3, I was totally impressed with the image, its sharpness and deepness of the colours. Wow. I left all them three in my collection forever. And the cameras itself are well done and very strong, but really small and convenient. Couple years ago I got mirrorrless Sigma SD quattro and was also very impressed, however, newer sensor gave me different results. It is difficult to judge which on is better, merrill or quattro. However, due to interchangable lenses, I got M42 adapter my Sd Quattro successfully permitted me to use many soviet lenses like Mir, Helios, Jupiter and many others. WOW. The result was just fantastic. Due to I already had A Lot of cameras, I took a very difficult decision to sell sd quattro first, because of its size (it is really big and heavy). I prefered to keep my little babbies dp merrils. Overall: Bayer sensor will never beat Fofeon and Sigma always will give better picture, even than fullframe or middle format. There are, however, some little issues with Sigma cameras, like battery life, ISO (only 100-200 are working, 200+ is acceptable for black&white), and AF speed. Thats why I have Sigmas as a secondary cameras in addition to my great Pentax collection.

[@snappiness]

Thanks for sharing! Sounds like you've had extensive Sigma experience. This is my first foray into foveon and I am still getting used to it (as you can tell from the video, hah). I am liking M42 lenses on it so far and having fun. I may pick up a DP2 merril or SD quattro at some point, as those two cameras appeal to me the most out of the rest of them.

[@yew108]

@Andrey Manulik Hi, Andrey . Among all the cameras you have tried or used , which camera gives you best result/tonality/contrast/rendering in terms of black and white photography ? Preferably not much post processing involved .Thanks in advance !

[@kentxx12]

I will say that Sigma merrill cameras in B/W is very good up to iso 800/400 in colour and i have theme all x 2 and also Sigma merrill range in a sunny day is a very good street Cameras :)

[@Xitrun]

​@@yew108 Hi, I would say SD quattro family

[@yew108]

@@Xitrun Thank you Andrey ! Appreciate that !

[@PaulWilkinson]

As you know from my previous comments, my Foveon experience is with the DP1. The menu still isn't great on it but it's definitely better and the issue around red highlights still exists. I often shot underexposed then slightly boosted shadows in processing, however, you can't push the file much. It's about finding a fine balance 🤷‍♂️ When I used my DP1, I treated it like a film camera, I took my time, double and tripled checked settings and I often used a tripod, mainly because anything above iso 400 is completely unusable. They are slow cameras, and although I never had any issues with the autofocus in the DP1, it was still slow. They are completely different from your average DSLR or pro compact but stick with it. They're not for everyone but as I've said before, my biggest photography regret is selling my DP1, I still pine for it! If you get a chance, I'd highly recommend the DP2 Merrill, it's got all the Sigma Foveon quirks but the image quality is unreal!

[@snappiness]

Yes, treating it as a slower process really is key. I ran into it guns blazing, as they say, and was really frustrated at first. I've had much better results since then. I definitely will check out the Dp2 Merrill and some of the other cameras! Such a fun quirky system.

[@PaulWilkinson]

@@snappiness It definitely is but although, it's quirky, frustrating and sometimes damn right annoying, I love it! I really interested to see what they do with the full frame version they're working on, I'm sure the images from that will be insane!

[@fosterb300]

Glad you’re trying out a Foveon sensor! I’m enjoying the colors you’ve been posting on the forum out of it. I’ve been eyeballing eBay for too long for a great deal. My camera shop in Minneapolis had an SD10 modified to R Mount for a while, but the Leica glass prices threw the idea of owning it out the window. Anyways I’ve got way too much gear at this point.

[@snappiness]

Oh yeah, that is a little odd. I guess cool but odd, lol. I'm liking the idea of using the M42 adapter. Should be here in a day or two. I've already used my Pentax->M42 adapter on it (fits, just doesn't lock in place) and I think that's the way to go with these. Force me to slow down even more. Definitely not a just go out and point and shoot kind of camera. I didn't even mention the fact that sticking to base ISO is really your only option. I feel like most people know that about foveon already. But it really limits! It's like shoot with 100 speed film and realizing how many situations are semi-low light and need more ISO. I guess I need to start carrying a tripod for this one.

[@erichstocker8358]

If you think of it as a camera providing digital kodachrome then you won't go far wrong. Meter it like it was that film. Restricted range, meter for the highlights, etc. I had a Quattro-H and got really lovely color shots out of it using this approach. Quattro-H let you write DNG files and I always felt that worked fine for me.

[@johnsalamh685]

As someone who is rather young and interested in photography but could never afford modern cameras pick up modern cameras vintage dslrs (which are about as old as I am 12-15 years old ) were the best thing ever thanks for the idea :)

[@kmcsmart]

I know nothing about Sigma cameras so it is fun to live vicariously through you. Thanks for the video.

[@snappiness]

Thanks for stopping by to check it out, Karen!

[@boxoweasels]

I had an SD10 for a while back in 2008. I don't remember any AF issues. I did like the files out of it, I'd like another foveon camera one of these days, but at the time Lightroom did not support them and I hated the sigma software so much I ended up getting rid of it because I rarely used it. The removable IR filter is a really nice feature I wish more cameras had.

[@snappiness]

Maybe just this camera then? I would say the lenses but it's been with all of them, so seems unlikely but still possible. Or once again just user error not using the AF correctly. But it's whatever, not like I'm shooting anything fast pace with it. SPP really is a pain to use. And I do plan on getting much more use out of that removable hot mirror very soon. I really enjoy infrared photography :)

[@villageblunder4787]

It may be the focal plane and the focus sensor are out of alignment. I have canon DSLR with a similar issue although it only seems to show with large aperture telephoto. Fixed with a microcadjust in the menu.

[@rATRIJS]

It's interesting seeing the first experience with a Sigma Foveon camera. I've had Sigma Merrill DP2 for two or so years and have bought a DP3 Merrill just a few weeks ago. Foveon sensor in these cameras is my favourite digital sensor that I've tried. Lenses are pretty good as well. The cameras and process can definitely see some improvements. I believe that the SD14 and other SLR Foveon cameras have an older generation Foveon sensor. RAW files from Merrill definitely aren't supported in Lightroom. Some of the experience I've had with the newer Foveon sensor is likely different in older ones. For example I haven't found too much trouble with blown highlights. Be it red or not. I have the histogram always visible and tend to expose on the right of it whilst making sure that nothing gets blown out. Even if something may appear blown initially, you can recover surprising amount of detail in Sigma Photo Pro. White balance can be weird but I ignore it and fix it in Sigma Photo Pro. It seems to work better that way rather than exporting to TIFF and fixing it in Lightroom. Anyway I could write about Foveon cameras forever. Hopefully you will find some joy in the files that these cameras can produce but it's OK if you don't. Not every camera is for everyone. And Sigma is definitely not always easy to love :D

[@snappiness]

That's what I was trying to remember. The newer files aren't supported. I'm surprised you haven't seen blown out reds before! I guess I was kind of looking for it after reading about how the sensor works and how reds can get blown out because that's the top (and thickest iirc) layer. It's just something to remember if there's red highlights in the scene to drop the exposure even more just in case. I am definitely enjoying the camera overall, but this first month has been a bit of a shocker. I thought it would be just like any other old camera I pick up, but I was so wrong! That's no necessarily a bad thing though. Making me work for good results makes me a better photographer. It would be interesting to try out some of the later sigma models.

[@Animaduniversum]

I've got the SD14 since like 10 years. Shoot it at ISO 100 for color. Use any other ISO for black and white. For landscape use a tripod and multi exposure.

[@taohe5163]

Great taste and good job! I brought my SD14 after having my DP2, and I modified my SD14 from SA mount to Nikon F mount, so that I can use my lots of nikon F mount lenses. The camera is a monster with raw file and SPP, no mater color or BW photos, OMG! it is unbelievable.

[@erikbirgerson9893]

How did you do the modifying?

[@chrisdwyer1477]

Between you and "One Month Two Cameras" I am in camera heaven... Also my wish list has grown quite a bit 😅

[@snappiness]

My wish list grows all the time as well ;) too many cool cameras not enough time! :)

[@dylandigby1776]

Foveon sensors make amazing images, but the ISO limitation really hurts it outside of daylight shooting or a studio

[@PiDsPagePrototypes]

Biggest problem Sigma had with these, is they didn't do any support of Video, and Sales to Film Students and Filmmakers is what's really driven the shift away from DSLR to Mirrorless. Have you tried any Film Era SLR lenses? the nature of the Foveon sensors layers, matches the colour layers in film emulsion construction, so a lens that was great on film, and has chromatic aberration when used on something with a single plane bayer sensor, like a GH4 or BMD Pocket Cine camera, when put in front of the Foveon sensor should be back to the quality they were on film. The 'highlights on red' issue - yes, that's a "photographer specific" technique issue - for video and digital cinema, we'll run the image in to an external screen with waveforms and vectorscope displays, so we adjust the image to match the waveforms, because we have a live display of what is clipped and what is underexposed. It's one of the reasons we've been asking manufacturers for proper 'scopes on DSLR's and Mirrorless for years. Also, yeah yeah, our Pentax is staying DSLR. It's not a big deal, after all, we get to keep using thousands of lenses in K-mount and M42,.. but, here's the thing, That button marked "Live View" on the back of our Pentax's, that's how you access "Mirrorless Operation" :)

[@williamborges3914]

Auto white balance is miserable. However, it's easy to set a custom white reference with a sheet of copier paper in bright sunlight.

[@snappiness]

True, that would be something to try more regularly in the field rather than relying on post to try and fix.

[@B9scrambler]

Cool camera and nice video. Controls remind me of late 80s/early 90s era Canon film cameras (ex. EOS RT/630).

[@snappiness]

It kinda does! It feels like some of those late film cameras too.

[@SuperZarkosis]

It is entirely possible the af issues are from the lenses, I know i have had backfocus and front focus issues on a few earlier sigma lenses, but never had any issues with them under-resolving. But obviously there might be an issue with the camera if it is the case on every lens.

[@PiDsPagePrototypes]

Mount might need checking, or shimming if it's worn, and as you say, every lens, it's a body problem.

[@snappiness]

Yeah I can't rule that out. I don't think they under resolve, at least not the primes I had. The problem with those was CA just typical for the times and coatings available. I heard from other users that the sensor has a way of showing flaws easier than the same lenses on other systems. I don't know how true that is as I don't have a lot of experience with these earlier Sigma lenses on any system. The 15-30mm I had did seem not terribly impressive even stopped down, so that was a goner. Which was a shame because it was a nice range on this camera. Because it seemed like a slower camera to me anyway I think I'll like the manual focus and these excellent M42 lenses I have.

[@carlosandri2197]

i have one SD15, i like this camera because the foveon are very sensible to colors and light. I use a 18-55 f 2.8. The autofocus is terrible but with calm you can achieve everything.

[@HuyBui-no5vu]

Phenomenal colors as usual mate Have you looked into buying a Sigma Quattro yet ?

[@snappiness]

I definitely have and very well might one day. :)

[@MasticinaAkicta]

As much as I like the idea behind foveon and in the right situation the results are beautiful. Yeah :! It is very situational.

[@snappiness]

That's my experience as well.

[@stevenunez]

Love your channel....I suggest you try a Sigma SD Quattro.....would love to see your take on it.

[@leehaze1]

Interesting camera. Always fun to try the oddities. Thanks for sharing

[@snappiness]

Thanks for watching! I've often wondered how many cameras you've played with thanks to your eBay dealings. Do you have a list that keeps track?? I saw that konica minolta DSLR you posted recently which was aweosome.

[@leehaze1]

@@snappiness Don't have a list. If I did it would be pretty long. lol I got the Pentax 18-35mm FA J in mail yesterday. Not rated high on Pentax forums but It should be fun on the K-1 with my upcoming beach trip.

[@raksh9]

One of the drawbacks of buying niche cameras like this is cross compatibility with lenses. When you buy a Sigma DSLR, you need to get lenses which are unusable on any other camera apart from a Sigma SDQ mirrorless. Pentax is the same, though there is more scope for upgrading Pentax bodies over time than Sigma. Having said that, Foveon images have a special something that isn't present in standard CMOS or even CCD sensors. So if you value this output enough, it may be worth the lens purchases, too.

[@tomjanowski8584]

Your results look awesome to me.

[@snappiness]

Thank you, Tom!

[@JeneyM]

Love the Foveon sensor!

[@ArminHirmer]

can relate to all your points :) got one from a friend a few days ago. images not sharp with autofocus, white balance hahaha, Sigma editor... oh boy. But hey, its a challenge and after a few shots and doing edits differently, the results are just great. But sure not my every day carry :D

[@snappiness]

Yeah, I'm getting better results now knowing some of the quirks of the camera. Also enjoying using M42 glass on it 👍

[@RCBladeKing]

I’m in the market again. I just sold my dp2 Merrill. It was an exceptional camera but I had to make room for something new :) I may buy one of these sd14 or a sd1 Merrill. Can’t decide.

[@timstevens5178]

I started out in film with a Sigma body. Always wanted one of their DSLR. Still do I guess, wanna try the foveon sensor.

[@precociousmonkeyproductions]

What do you like better… Super CCD or Foveon? You should do a video comparing the pictures out of the Fujifilm Finepix S2 pro and the Sigma SD10 or SD14… I know you also have an SD10 but I haven’t seen as many videos with that one as the SD14

[@StephenStrangways]

Although an SA to M42 adapter is better for infinity focus, the K to M42 adapter you already own will work. The SA mount is physically the same as K mount, but the flange back distance is different. Just don't hit the infrared filter with the rear of a lens!

[@snappiness]

I've tried attaching it and it fits just fine, it just doesn't lock into place and has a slight wobble. So, I've done some tripod shots where I try really hard not to detach the lens while focusing and it works out alright. I should be getting my SA to m42 in the mail soon and hopefully that stays put better. I was also excited to try my K mount glass on the camera because the mount is similar, but the little tabs that stick out of the back of the K lenses prevents this. At least with the lenses I have. I've read others have gotten this to work but I don't understand how.

[@StephenStrangways]

@@snappiness for k-mount lenses, you'd have to cut the tabs off, which would mean they'd never work properly on Pentax cameras again afterwards.

[@thegoldenamerican]

Yes you are right it is a weird camera but I think you just don’t know how to use it properly. I’ve been using it for years and getting great results.

[@stephenroberts7828]

Nice review thnx James

[@unbroken1010]

Have you tried the 30 mm sigma lens. Where you find the m42 adapter? Sigma discontinued them

[@snappiness]

I'm not sure which lens you're talking about?

[@unbroken1010]

@@snappiness sorry I meant if you tried 30mm sigma. Where you find the m42 adapter? Sigma discontinued them and most other brands are on back order. I might have found a sd14 for 300.. Is the sensor much different than the quattro or SD quattro? ? I have them already. .

[@snappiness]

@@unbroken1010 I haven't tried the 30mm yet. And the m42 adapter I got on eBay somewhere I think. If you have a quattro and SD quattro I don't think you have much to gain from the original X3 sensor. You already have the better ones! 😆

[@unbroken1010]

@@snappiness I was thinking the same. I don't think the MP count would give me any "vintage rendition" that I could not achieve with the others. I think it's just g.a.s and the challenge of it. Try a 24 to 70 f.2.8 great lense.

[@dct124]

I pretty much shoot "-2 exp. comp" on every camera under 12 stops of dynamic range. Jpg. then you'll need to adjust the curves not the exp. slider in LR and that'll give a film like look especially in the highlights.

[@RCBladeKing]

Ok just had to say this. Get yourself a dp2 Merrill. Sure you can only shoot at 100 iso but the images are godly! I think you will appreciate it.

[@carpediem673]

I've have a DP1 Merrill which I both love and hate. It's quirky and demanding but will give you wonderful images if you're patient and methodical. Pros: - image quality is stunning - menu system is very simple and basic - no demosaicing to muck up the IQ - B&W setting produces beautiful files Cons: - dynamic range is terrible - Sigma PhotoPro software is agonizing to use

[@terrywbreedlove]

That sensor with old Nikon or Pentax film era manual focus glass. Magic 🪄

[@snappiness]

That's what I'm thinking too :) excited for this adapter to come.

[@terrywbreedlove]

@@snappiness Hope to see what you come up with 👍🏻

[@unbroken1010]

Just used my Sd Quattro last night the cine, and for. blue are quite nice . focus is slow but not too bad. Focus peaking helps the 21: 9 16:9 is nice . the 30 mm is nice

[@snappiness]

Very cool camera! Yeah I've heard really good things about some of their newer glass. And some of their older glass too, but from what I looked up I wasn't the only one underwhelmed by some of the lenses I had.

[@sdhute]

How is that foveon sensor? Been eyeing the sd quattro. Just need to decide on toying with the sa mount. Supposed to be amazing colors

[@bansheep1]

Good choice!

[@maendelofdoom]

Nice run through! What lens did you use? My 17-70mm and 30mm focuses fine on my SD14. M42 lenses work with focus-confirm on the SD14 iirc so it's quite pleasant to use. Just be sure to check that your lens won't hit the dust protector/ir filter. SPP is really a bummer to use. I think it's even worse on the later sigma camera files. I use Affinity photo for my quattro files since SPP overcooks them with sharpening and contrast. I think it does the same for the Merrill files. Unfortunately there's no other software that will open those files properly. I got totally hooked on Sigma cameras and I can't stop shooting with them. At the moment the dp3 quattro and SD9 are my favorites :)

[@snappiness]

Very cool! I'm glad you stopped by then. Sounds like you have a good amount of experience. Would you recommend the 17-70 or 30mm? Or any other SA native lenses? I think I'll be happy with my M42 lenses, but I wouldn't mind trying some more and seeing what happens.

[@maendelofdoom]

@@snappiness I think the 17-70 is a nice lens :) I have the old 2.8-4.5 version. I like the extra reach. But I'm guessing that the 18-50 2.8 would be a good candidate if you need something with a larger aperture. I got the old EX version of the 30mm 1.4 and I'm not crazy about it tbh. It has lots of coma and is pretty soft at larger apertures. I haven't tried any other native SA lenses but from examples seen online I think for example the 70mm 2.8 macro looks very promising. Will be interesting to see what results you get with your m42 lenses.

[@jimzielinski946]

You made a comment about Pentax, that they should consider a removable UV/IR sensor filter. When Pentax came out with their kp IR model, they refused to sell it to the "public", only to museums and law enforcement. Recently I saw a reference to Pentax considering making a h-alpha extended sensitivity version of possibly their k3iii. Their did mention that IR deeper than h-alpha would be blocked. I forget exactly how they worded it (though translated from Japanese), but they seem to be fixated on a fear of their cameras being used for IR voyeurism through women's clothing. That issue was an embarrassment for a few Japanese video camera makers that supported an IR mode. I think that's a foolish and shortsighted reason to refuse to support photographers who want to shoot full spectrum UV or IR especially when there are companies out there that convert (mostly Nikon and Canon) cameras. I'm always disappointed when I see companies that have potential and don't take advantage of opportunities.

[@photobyTaps]

Very nice

[@RikMaxSpeed]

Key unanswered question is whether you were able to observe any of claimed advantages of the Foveon sensor? In particular no demosaicing required?

[@snappiness]

Short answer no, long answer, I wouldn't doubt in a controlled setting with comparison camera from the same era that it would probably show. But practically, no. That's my take at least. (though I am still a nerd for foveon, I would just never recommend it to anyone for fear someone would get one and be wildly disappointed)

[@RikMaxSpeed]

@@snappiness Interesting, I’ll have to go see what dpReview tested. I recall that at the time the technology sounded pretty convincing.

[@erikbirgerson9893]

Does sd14 have internal charging? Bought a used one but it does not come with any battery charger.

[@snappiness]

I'm not sure about internal charging, but the battery I'm pretty sure is the same as the Pentax K10D. The DLI50. Double check on that, but could be a cheaper way to find batteries and chargers.

[@mikerichardson60]

Where did you get that wall mount to put cameras on?

[@snappiness]

I built it out of fence boards my neighbor was throwing away. But into 3", 6" and 9" lengths and fit together cubes, then organized in different layouts until I found one I liked :)

[@mikerichardson60]

@@snappiness well aren't you a handy young man .. Great repurposing

[@gemstyxwalls1419]

Can you update the firmware?

[@v_stands_for_value124]

Those crappy cameras make me appreciate my Fujifilm XT30/XH2s even more, so well designed

[@donaldmartin7109]

Thank you for sharing. Not for me.

[@MiladJP]

Foveon = Frame-without-iso-over-100-or-you-will-be-fucked-Oveon

[@Gamehighlight2023]

SO SIGMA SUCKS ! even everybody worship the Brand !