Simon Sinek: Leadership, Hard Work, Optimism and the Infinite Game | Lex Fridman Podcast #82

Simon Sinek is an author of several books including Start With Why, Leaders Eat Last, and his latest The Infinite Game. He is one of the best communicators of what it takes to be a good leader, to inspire, and to build businesses that solve big difficult challenges.
* Note about the new addition on the table: Hedgy is a stuffed hedgehog toy that I got in a thrift store many years ago. He jumped out at me because he seemed to be deep in thought and bothered by something profound, in stark contrast to other stuffed animals that usually have an aloof, empty smile on their face. I gave away almost all my stuff in the name of minimalism a couple of times, and he survived all of that. There's a longer story there. If you're curious, ask me and I'll do one of the AMA videos about Hedgy. In general, people asked to put more stuff in the scene. I don't have much stuff. So what you get is Hedgy.
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EPISODE LINKS:
Simon twitter: / simonsinek
Simon facebook: / simonsinek
Simon website: simonsinek.com/
Books:
- Infinite Game: amzn.to/2wva7ae
- Leaders Eat Last: amzn.to/2xf70Ds
- Start with Why: amzn.to/2WxBH1i
PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website:
lexfridman.com/podcast
Apple Podcasts:
apple.co/2lwqZIr
Spotify:
spoti.fi/2nEwCF8
RSS:
lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/
Full episodes playlist:
• Lex Fridman Podcast
Clips playlist:
• Lex Fridman Podcast Clips
OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
3:50 - Meaning of life as an infinite game
10:13 - Optimism
13:30 - Mortality
17:52 - Hard work
26:38 - Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, and leadership
CONNECT:
- Subscribe to this KZbin channel
- Twitter: / lexfridman
- LinkedIn: / lexfridman
- Facebook: / lexfridmanpage
- Instagram: / lexfridman
- Medium: / lexfridman
- Support on Patreon: / lexfridman

[@lexfridman]

I really enjoyed this conversation with Simon. Here's the outline: 0:00 - Introduction 3:50 - Meaning of life as an infinite game 10:13 - Optimism 13:30 - Mortality 17:52 - Hard work 26:38 - Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, and leadership

[@Felipe-hg4ce]

Hey Lex, i want to know if my sister and i can create other channel with your content with subtitles in spanish? Thanks for all.

[@ToHarsh4blitz]

I really appreciate the timestamps

[@jimmiferfreddette8583]

Thank you for this. I feel content creators don’t post conversation time stamps because they are lazy and/or their ego says I don’t want anyone to skip any of what I have to say because I’m so interesting. Not knowing most people check out when they hit a patch of conversation they may not be interested in. Not knowing something great or interesting might be seconds away. People stay engaged knowing where the conversation is going. Long winded thought but what I guess what I’m trying to say is please continue to time stamp! Lol

[@mylesdarwin3000]

I guess it is pretty randomly asking but does anybody know a good website to watch new tv shows online ?

[@complexlogic8634]

"Dying for the right cause is the most human thing we can do"

[@crypticnomad]

Man you've been having some really good guests! Your podcast is quickly becoming my favorite. I can't wait to watch this one too!

[@chidimmaobi4659]

Plzzzzzzz get more "Simon like" kind of guests. It's the AI podcast, but I want more of your insights on life, meaning, mortality, psychology etc. This was really impactful and relatable. Thanksssss.

[@s.c.7215]

Lex, I discovered your podcast a few weeks ago and it's quickly going to the top of my regular rotation. Thanks for branching out into other overlaping domains and bringing extremely interesting people to the conversation.

[@wizardstein3153]

AMA: Can you tell the tale of hedgy!!

[@lexfridman]

You got it. I will.

[@RohitPant04]

I love Simon Sinek. Such a positive personality, always admirable!

[@chidimmaobi4659]

This is the best conversation ever!

[@manasmeerut]

"Working hard for something you don't care about is called stress" - Simon Sinek

[@jfritz6233]

21:00 to the end was the best part of the interview. Great insight on motivation.

[@joelicata]

As always, excellent interview.... totally enjoy your choice of guests, their insights and you conversational style.

[@JanneWolterbeek]

Love this, thanks, Lex! Sadly it is so short, but going to watch it twice, to absorb it better.

[@rajeshprajapati1851]

Thank you so much for the conversation. Keep them coming.

[@mabenba]

Why it took me so long to find this episode? Amazing one! Thanks for everything you do Lex!

[@DominicDSouza]

Always enjoy the discussions and very grateful to Lex for making them happen. As always, Simon Sinek made great points about leadership and what drives passion.

[@pablomena585]

OMG so happy you invited him to your podcast, you are a great host! keep up the good work

[@ClicheFighter]

Thank you very much, Lex! :) Your effort to connect us with so many beautiful minds is highly appreciated! :)

[@jav6187]

This was a great talk. Thank you Lex and Simon.

[@coachetch3416]

thank you for making this video! Excellent interview! ...only wished it was longer...

[@FP889]

Very good conversation - I truly appreciate this discussion.

[@ToHarsh4blitz]

Great job Lex. Love your interviews.

[@ReadingDave]

Masterclass is pretty awesome.

[@bhooshankulkarni2928]

One of the best podcasts I have ever seen , 34:34 onwards for a couple of minutes... I am completely agree with that ... but what I have also learnt is that if the target is given, since that target is not the end ... the visual of the next goal/ target or how the whole picture will look gives perspective and calms everything down ...

[@lukemcintosh9442]

His shirt matches his mug. That is INFINITE

[@rowenab.747]

One of those good motivational speakers. 👌 Thank you.

[@honestinsky]

Thanks Lex for this excellent video, much appreciated. Your channel is blowing up with subs, because you rock my friend : )

[@curiousme8]

Amazing podcast! Thank you!

[@oudarjyasensarma4199]

Keep them coming Lex! Thanks!

[@EnglishEvolution]

I love that you guys connected. This is a rare gem.

[@MrLauen]

Best podcast i have listen at for a long time Lex!

[@lukehankinson3668]

Thank you for what your doing. You've changed my life for the better.

[@rmw8478]

You’ve influenced me with this one. Not only did I buy Simons latest book (I’ve already read Leaders Eat Last) but I also downloaded cash app and entered your code! Thanks so much for your valuable work.

[@MarcosScheeren]

Lex, you're the best! What a legacy your channel already is!

[@sandip17]

Wonderful podcast! Brilliant Simon

[@supersnowva6717]

Thanks very much for this podcast. Leadership is definitely a great topic in the era of entrepreneurism. Can't wait for the episode with Jack of Twitter. Thank you!

[@Khodalyr]

That was really good Lex you're getting better. I'm not so well versed into the whole engineering field being in the medical field, so I definitely enjoy very much these more universal podcasts than the more precise scientific ones, although those are good as well. You're getting better at having a natural conversation with your guest. This is fire. Lol

[@bashiralzakwani4139]

Simon, thank you about reminding us about what legacy we choose to leave.

[@davidmancevice7271]

Love Lex - he’s the Dale Cooper (TwinPeaks) of podcasters. Great interview

[@Shaham18]

OMG 😂 this is so true!!!! There's such a resemblance between them! Appearance wise and their demeanor.

[@bharathmshetty]

When are you going to bring Lex Fridman?

[@markopolo958]

Lol what?

[@AbhishekDaszealous]

Thanks for such an amazing podcast! Loved it :)

[@eaf888]

I never knew you did a podcast with this guy!

[@PH1M0]

“Passion is output, not an input.” 👏 So much great info in here, and props to the interviewer for being genuine, respectful and asking curious questions other then the usual 👍

[@avaloakon]

Love the 1 last day enjoying the senses))

[@synneetsab7837]

Love you simon may Heavenly Father God bless you and be with you through out the way. Your one of my favorite speaker that motivate me with my life alot. Thank you, and stay truly amazingly blessing love.

[@tyfoodsforthought]

Cool! Exxcited to watch!!😱 Thank you, Lex!

[@epistemicmind4175]

Amazing! Thanks!

[@Dumass88]

People like Simon is what the world needs, if there was only an app that kept track of where all the good leaders are at.

[@arthurc.d.8040]

I hope he will come back for more ❤

[@BookWormsOriginal]

I always admired Simon Sinek and really enjoyed his TED talks. What is really interesting about this one is that Lex keeps on pushing him with every question and Simon, well he cruises through with flying colours. Loved it.

[@rocketthedogliu]

YESSS! i love simon. i can’t wait to listen to this one!

[@Chris-liwymi]

Man i read so much of his work while I was working at a bank, his ideas get rejected so hard in mainstream, I am digging through all of your podcasts, I love your work lex, keep it up

[@acceloratajengold]

Hedgy seems cool 🦔

[@matthewdorabiala]

Great episode! Will use it for my dissertation ;)

[@andreinistor2850]

Thanks!

[@tahahalal1989]

Great one !

[@mnesvat]

it was great discussion 🙌🏻

[@ratsukutsi]

Lex, interview somebody about this new disease and make some kick ass non obvious questions, please. God bless you

[@ratsukutsi]

I'm particularly curious about 2 things (not to overload the comment section with all my doubts) 1 - For how many viruses would an average non symptomatic person test positive if the proper tests were performed? In other words, how many detectable viruses do we carry while living normal lives? 2 - Can these tests for COVID-19 that are being used worldwide distinguish this particular virus from the other types of coronavirus? If fellows in the comment section know any of the answers, I'll be very thankfull. Have a nice quarantine, everyone!

[@saadalfalil230]

Thank you Bro

[@ashishdubey94]

Wow this one got to be amazing !

[@sam-di7vc]

That was very nice, thanks lex

[@MawaMaverick]

This was awesome

[@coscorrodrift]

Bro we're gonna need the Tale of Hedgy

[@sta_____rk]

That's a good content that you do Lex. Thanks buddy. #kudos

[@stewartmoore5158]

A very interesting conversation with Jon Hamm.

[@IvanGoncharovAI]

Damn, these are some great questions and answers

[@EeliyaRasta]

I wish I could like this video more than one time but unfortunately KZbin only allow you to like it one time.

[@Rogerkonijntje]

another gr8 one Lexicon ^^

[@seanvassar1117]

The amount of positive comments are inspiring.

[@alexcaminiti]

It should be alarming that more people don't see through his vague, uninspired, unoriginal and meaningless bullshit. He never makes a single valid point, ever. He's essentially a psychic/cold reading style motivational speaker/politician. He just panders to whoever is his audience. Tell me a single thing he said in this entire talk that is referenced or backed up by any data whatsoever. Serious question.

[@seanvassar1117]

@@alexcaminiti 😂 who shit in your Cheerios? This is a 30 min conversation about the meaning of life.. That's on Lex and his question. "War is costly" is one statement backed up by "data". Are you familiar with James Carse or any game theory?

[@williamramseyer9121]

Great questions and answers. Thank you. My comments: 1. I loved the novels, “The Idiot” and “The Brothers Karamazov”, the characters that Dostoevsky created, and the intensity with which they pursued their reward functions. I would also recommend Tarkovsky’s film “Andrei Rublev.” 2. Passion is a word that originally meant “to suffer”, and now it also means to feel something with intense emotion. When the Europeans searched for greater meaning in religion they sought it in passion, from the followers of Bacchus in Ancient Greece, to the self-torturing Christian medieval monks. On the other hand, practitioners of many Asian religions, especially in forms of Buddhism, searched for greater meaning in the opposite direction, in detachment with awareness. Why is it that humans find profound meaning--in work, religion, philosophy, art, and maybe even romance--in these two apparently opposite directions? Thank you. William L. Ramseyer

[@KornKakes]

Pleasure for the mind💕

[@danmurad8080]

❤ love you Simon!

[@TheBigBawsss]

Damn good questions from an engineers perspective lex ... wish the interview was longer

[@kadeeraziz]

it is times to have simon on the podcast again

[@McMurchie]

What Fridman is missing when pushing on the question of people getting soft, is not everyones infinite game involves turning a handle, some of us have personal pursuits such as family.

[@mypalAbra]

Most people don’t go hard at all let alone nonstop. It’s a small group that needs the rest advice whereas most people need to hear motivation to work hard

[@JarrodR84]

Hell's yeah!!🎉

[@jreamscape]

​@@mypalAbramissed the point of the comment

[@mypalAbra]

@@jreamscape What’s the point of your comment? I was helping to explain Lex’s point. As even the pursuit of family still requires hard work, a baby crying all day/night yeah you could do the easy thing and let your spouse take care of it or worse just neglect it. His point stands unless your goal is to have no goals.

[@_etranger9500]

Enjoyed the passion/hardwork debate. I think if you're lucky enough for your passion to align with your work, and you own your work, have agency, then sacrificing sleep and comforts for it, though physiology will have limits and eventually diminishing returns, can feel optimal to the individual. For most people however this is probably not the case. It's easy to have passion when you're building your own company, when it's your prototype, when you're in control. Can founders/CEOs cultivate a passion in their employees to match their own? The 'better world' motivation is an interesting argument, can certainly be very positive but also may be misused, on it's own it's still missing that individual agency/ownership element, some personality types need it more than others but all do to some degree. In general, you need to look at external and internal motivation distinctions and their variability among people, there is probably no one answer fits all strategy.

[@ukasztrojanowski3149]

3 views. I don't remember ever being this early :) Love this podcast

[@harshitboss]

Amazing Podcast :), When are you going to bring Bill Gates, Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Sundar Pichai?

[@ozramos4828]

Hopefully soon, he did do Eric Schmidt in 2018!

[@NahidMuzammil]

Hey Lex, there's a mistake in the links to Simon's books. Infinite Game points to the same link as Start with Why.

[@eigenman30]

I like how Simon's shirt matches his coffee cup.

[@peterbollinger8902]

Be passionate.

[@ishanz8991]

3 Key Insights from this episode: i) "You can't manufacture passion in your employees." If you don't offer a purpose or a vision beyond the salary of doing the job, you shouldn't expect to attract the best talent nor have employee loyalty. ii) Most businesses can't pass The School Bus Test: if your visionary founder/leader was hit by a school bus would the organization still thrive and persist? iii) A quote by Mr. Sinek that Mr. Fridman ends the episode with: There are 2 ways to influence human behaviour. You can manipulate it or you can inspire it.

[@Chocolaatchaudd]

Your questions were really insightful, I'm shocked how much you know in scientific fields and can still discuss deeply about psychological and human society with an expert like Simon I watched some of Simon's interview and in one talk he said : "No, it is not ok to keep your phone on the table, even if it is faced down" I am pretty sure with his body language that he is not confortable at all with that, I understand that it was maybe important for you to keep it there though

[@matamoney]

I have so many questions for Hedgy

[@pfeyer]

welcome hedgy

[@ioncasu1993]

"just because it IS impossible, doesn't mean we shouldn't try"

[@PinyKid]

I would love a much more in depth interview with Simon

[@lovepreneurshiptv8996]

The message is bigger than the messager

[@sskk6854]

Hey Lex. Another great podcast! Is there any chance of Charles Hoskinson coming on?

[@ranjodh87]

"passion is an output not input."

[@Pretzik]

I dig his optimism. When you asked him what he thought of death, and he basically said he paid no mind to it. I don't know how people can do that. To me, my death is all I think about - day and night. Every step I make seems to have that in mind.

[@ozramos4828]

There's a stoic practice called "memento mori" which means something like "remembering death". It's a meditation practice wherein you remind yourself that life is finite, even in good times. Thinking about death isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially if you use it as a vehicle towards finding and pursuing your purpose

[@FIoresful]

It would be amazing if you would do a podcast that has to deal leadership. it would be wonderful to hear your opinions on it.

[@karaokekoder795]

That which has value is passed on, even in DNA. Immortality is passing on your will and letting others take on your causes like a paton race. Immortality does not mean (staying the same), even ideas change based on the circumstances of the changing era. But the will and spirit to pass on better things to the next generation, the courage to make ourselves better will never die.

[@kentvandervelden]

Regarding Hedgy: In the book The Signal and the Noise a hedgehog and fox are used as examples of how people interpret data. Also, I really enjoyed this interview. S.S.'s Together is Better is one of my favorite books to read with my young son. Foundational stuff

[@WEYEZER]

What does Hedgy think about? He’s pretty flippin cool. Some of the greatest things come from another mans trash can, in my opinion.

[@shadowstock2183]

Funny, LOVE Whiplash it's one of my favorite movies for the same reasons.

[@nur-a-alamabir3674]

Hi Lex! I wonder if you think about bringing Prof. David J Milan from CS220 on the table? That would be really interesting

[@MonaMarMag]

Exactly .

[@fightwatcherspro]

LETS GO

[@cplnerf]

oh my god yes

[@matasuki]

The intellectual Joe Rogan