Rogues are looking VERY STRONG in Phase 3 - Datamined Info, Runes, Talents, and BIS Gear

[@SimonizeShow]

60 Upgrades P3 BIS: sixtyupgrades.com/sod/set/esMauyTPnBP1f6Ss2fKGoo (work-in-progress not finalized) SimonizeShow TV: kzbin.info/door/3ufBaw0vi9wyfypnVkB5rA Twitch: www.twitch.tv/simonizeshow Discord: discord.com/invite/pujEA9mpYr​

[@Broseidonize]

The moment I started playing rogue in SOD I immediately knew where to come for information. Thanks for being such an awesome pillar of the rogue classic community, you and Zatar really helped me improve a lot at rogue back in TBC classic.

[@SimonizeShow]

Glad to help!

[@Hivedingo]

As always, your rogue content is top tier. Thanks dude and keep on rockin!

[@whalesarefinetoo]

Super informative! Thanks a lot. Minor thing: you get access to some sweet shoulders through the Emerald Wardens faction before you get the LW shoulders. They are very strong, offering hit, crit, AP and stamina. I see those as a strong contestant for both entry level pvp and pve.

[@SimonizeShow]

the stats on those changed like 3 times leading up to patch day. when this video of datamining went live, the stats on those shoudlers were bad

[@malohn2068]

Why aren't you using the raid dagger and the stv event dagger they're equally as strong and miles better than Julie's dagger

[@tenveri]

Weapon speed

[@willtock9947]

@@tenveri Don't we want slow dagger in off-hand as well since we spam Mutilate so much ?

[@tenveri]

@@willtock9947 fast offhand, more poison and envenom damage, simming better (this is simonize after all)

[@Suppanh]

lackluster gear, we get bis weapon from stv event and ah, barely any upgrades from raid. stuck to 1 specc that unable us to get any other cool weapons. shaftet again.

[@Newbalancedad]

the armor reduction debuff poison will make your dps trash as it negates the deadly brew rune. Phase 2 discrimination repeated phase 3. take a look at the 2h handers they added and tell me rogues phase are in a good position.

[@PheonixT-ki8rx]

its atrocious. Im now at the point where i am starting to genuinely think Aggrend and his team are just ANTI Rogue rather than being plain old ignorant. Not to mention, they also dropped the ball on racial swapping big time. Not only does it kill racial identity but they dont even allow for alliance to swap their trash racials for the good horde ones like Berserking and Blood Fury, but Horde get access to +5 wep skill racials....wtf?@@Newbalancedad

[@CosmicApe]

@@Newbalancedad Yeah I'm dropping my full BiS Rogue at the end of P2 for a different class. It was fun, boring at times in the end, and it's going to be more of the same mediocrity in P3.

[@idkidgaf]

The devs can hate rogue as much as they want, the top 1 percent of us will just keep shining on them regardless.

[@CasperVsTheWorldGaming]

Something that is nice for rogue tanks is that you can use Poison knife to immediately apply the sebaceous poison on the pull. then use a Equip macro to swap to your OH that has Deadly Poison, rinse and repeat in the main boss encounters to always keep up the sebaceous poison debuff :)

[@jimmymemez3977]

Sounds like fun gameplay

[@NoSkills1988]

That's 2 GCDs worth of time + the energy for using Poison Knife (and the potential net loss of using that rune itself) happening every 12~ seconds where you are GCD locked and cannot do anything + lose damage doing it. It would be better if they just made Sebaceous just... not worse than doing a normal expose, lol.

[@Lmabark]

@@NoSkills1988 Also, you have to movee away from the boss to use PK since you must be at certain range to use it.

[@CasperVsTheWorldGaming]

Yeah but the OH Proc is pretty high so swapping while you have 3-4 seconds on timer you can re apply pretty quickly just from melee swing, in my ST runs I’m just assigning it to my self as well rogue DPS will be mad about loosing dps on boss. So fuck it assign it to the rogue tank :)

[@Nachtrobbe]

The biggest use for Sabacious Poison is probably for tanking. It increases Mutilate Damage by 20% while bringing utility without losing much dmg, since tanks don’t get the AP scaling anyway.

[@JayKay1102]

I was so hyped with SoD in the beginning (first phase). Then I saw first hand how much tank rogue sucked at pretty much everything (no aoe and swapping target deletes combo points, lol) and how little the runes encouraged playing combat. And how much stronger other classes were. But the combat part was to be expected, since it needs some talents to get it going (or make it fun like blade flurry / adrenaline rush). This is why I was so disappointed by phase 2, where combat was flat out bad to a point that combat playing dagger mutilate envenom was still stronger than actual combat - only that it has less output than assa because the passives there are so much stronger for the build. Now with phase 3 combat rogue has nothing going for itself again? No buffs, no debuffs and straight up 10% less damage? Great... Not gonna touch it then. Rly sad because I think SoD has awesome ideas and can be quite fun. I just wanted to enjoy some tweaked combat experience instead of mutilate envenom spam. I didn't enjoy that in Wotlk and I don't enjoy it in SoD. Feels bad.

[@thedrunkmanga4610]

So instead of mutilate envenom spam you prefer sinister strike/ saber slash eviscerate spam ? Lmao stfu.

[@nicuvozian2627]

Not having utility as a rogue might not necessarily be a problem if they add a mechanic in the raid which can only be executed by the rogues, for example disarming traps, mobs that require kicks and so on

[@chainclaw07]

having an optional boss behind disarmable traps or a locked door only pickable by rogues would be cool - with chance to drop tokens and rogue connected loot, like daggers and ranged weapon.

[@quinngerrard6428]

Kicks still cost us dps besides other classes can kick: mage shamam warrior baseline and hpala tankpala tank feral, tank warrior have the option to

[@chainclaw07]

@@quinngerrard6428 so... if you're so mathematically inclined and motivated, why are you playing a rogue? Is it maybe because of the class fantasy? Much how I play Paladin for two reasons, holy warrior sounds cool, healing utility combined with martial prowess speaks to me both in gameplay and aesthetics. Because if its not that, then why play rogue, specifically you?

[@quinngerrard6428]

@@chainclaw07 the gameplay system lf energy, CP and finishers is to me the most enjoyable system in the game, especially if the finishers feel rewarding to press, its why I mainly play rogue and feral (also just enjoy melee and despise mana bars)

[@chainclaw07]

@@quinngerrard6428 so while I agee that the fact that some people don't allow strangers to come in pug raid based on Meta is stupid and should do away with - there has to be likeminded people to you who are playing right? who WOULD bring a rogue to a scheduled raid. Rogues are really good kickers, they have been given really good "sunder armor" capabilities. AND the runes have been tied to that system you like - don't advocate for utility like blessings if you're wanting to play a rogue... or am I missing something here?

[@thomasdreyer7522]

Was hoping to play combat rogue with the new fist weapons. Sad to hear it’s still going to be behind mutilate rogues.. also loved hearing how the set pieces are only slightly better than last phases because I initially thought the same thing. Hope to see saber slash combat rogue get buffed or become viable. Bleed dmg increase from mangle and leader of the pack synergy with rogue/feral is what makes wow with my twin brother more exciting.

[@knarf427]

I'm banking on combat fists or swords, carnage looks too good

[@etomu]

I believe what rogues could bring to the raid is the monk equivalent of 5% physical damage done to the target (or even better a combined of DH+monk) in order to add 5% damage to make rogues desirable for a raid...

[@kyoden1928]

yea we just need savage combat as a utility rune

[@DougWildes]

How are you getting the new loot to show up on 60upgrades?

[@poulthomas469]

You are mistaken about Locks not losing dps while providing a debuff. Locks have to give up Curse of Agony as they are always expected to be debuffers via CoR or CoE(only one curse per lock at any time). It's part of why Affliction wasn't taken for raiding. It was just a given that one of your major damage abilities wasn't going to be used. One of the mistakes in SoD is not addressing this lockout. They've added some amazing affliction runes but the expectation for being a debuffer still outweighs them.

[@KevinShakespeare-uq1dx]

They should add Savage Combat or maybe Master Poisoner as a rune for rogues to get more viable for raids maybe. Just a small thing to catch up with all the other classes.

[@ratburgler]

I've always been hoping for the "poison vial" proc from envenoms lol, the aoe poison proc that does tons of dmg for 4s.

[@atanashinov5946]

Thanks for the nice explanations, right in time ✌️🤙

[@Drizzle5753]

I was topping the DPS in my raid with orange parses every lockout and still managed to get benched and replaced by a caster..... lol

[@SimonizeShow]

"but mages are better, WCL says so!" lmao some people

[@Julez3133]

Tuesday patch notes: your slice and dice now gives a 5% melee and spell haste to all raid members within 60 yards

[@SimonizeShow]

please

[@MoosePolo]

Really?

[@Julez3133]

@@MoosePolo yes

[@TheRomanou]

@@Julez3133it's an april fool right ? riiight?

[@montanamuse3617]

Carnage with Saber slash for tanking seems like a decent build for tanking since they don't get envenom(at least early phase) for cttc. That dodge rune might also be very solid for tanking with a slow MH. So maybe we actually see tanks come off daggers.

[@eyl0rien61]

Carnage gonna be BiS for PvE i think, but people forget something regarding Cut to the Chase. With Carnage you'll need 3/3 Imp SnD, but with CttC you don't need that, instead you'll put point on 4/5 Lethality, which is more Mutilate damage. In the mean time you gonna want to maintain rupture with CttC just as with Carnage, BUT you'll be able to cast an extra Envenom with CttC, unlike Carnage, when you have to upkeep SnD. I still think Carnage gonna be the way to go, cuz it buffs Rupture and Envenom as well. Interesting!

[@RupertGHeap]

Do you not think its worthwhile going into precision for at least a few points to reach the 9% soft hit cap? (gear dependent) I feel like you'd get more value guaranteeing your envenom doesnt miss instead of a chance to generate an additional combo point from Seal Fate, especially with the Honor Among Thieves rune.

[@whostheree]

Love the content, cant wait for more! Just as an FYI your discord link in the details shows invalid link, but the one on your twitch is accurate. Secondarily, do you have plans to review tanking rogues soon? would be super excited as im our guilds MT as a rogue

[@messaroundhandleit]

Hemo may actually be a thing, but they need to buff the debuff damage it gives, either way serrated blades talents is looking very good with extra 30% for rupture and armor pen.

[@ennkay1100]

hemo is deffinitely not gonna be a pve spec, for pvp tho ye looks playable.

[@JFill72]

Someone theorized that traps may be added to ST, which should hopefully give us some leverage for raid invites ;)

[@breetai3]

Just saying you tend to prioritize engineering but this phase the only piece is the bracer that has only +1 AGI over WSG one. Meanwhile I'm over here being an Enchanting Rogue getting +20 Attack power with Sigil that has very cheap mats to make :)

[@tenveri]

They buffed new sigil to +50AP.

[@breetai3]

@@tenveri wow then even crazier! Why have +1AGI when you can have 50 AP?? Enchanting is not expensive to level either.

[@leaveacomment]

Is there a way Focused Attacks can be used with Shuriken Toss as an energy generator for rogue tanks?

[@eddiewinehosen6665]

Seems like Carnage will be better on fights with little movement and Cut to the Chase on fights with lots of movement and target swaps.

[@ovx689]

@simonize I think the most simple fix to the issue of rogue not providing a buff to the raid could be fixed with master or subtley instead of a personal damage increase also increase the raids damage by 5% sure that’s really strong but instead of adding something new just tweak the rune to apply to Raid or even just party. People would love to have rogues in their party for that damage buff on vanish or opener of fight.

[@shad0ws0rr0w86]

just run an offhand with sebacious, apply poison debuff, swap wpn till u need to reapply, like how us combat rogues (when we had to run wound) in wrath did.

[@KrackahLack]

Great video, thanks man

[@AlrikMelania]

We reckon having 2 rogues in a 20 man is fine now?

[@dylanreidel5520]

Give us our Master Poisoner rune

[@RideRM1313]

why are we talenting into imp backsyab? does that buff mutilate? I thought it didnt

[@SimonizeShow]

read mutilate tooltip

[@RideRM1313]

@@SimonizeShow yup I did. I swear I thought it was the opposite but I must've misread it before. thanks for all your sweet sweet information brotha

[@TimeForTrim]

what is the leveling build everyone is using?

[@galeitiaa]

Update deadly brew and include this poison!! Problem solved :D Nice video as always Simonize

[@Rezman-WoW]

Let’s hope that rogues get that much needed revival phase 3!

[@verselmao]

we're so back...

[@Noxief]

no, class will gonna be bad again

[@PheonixT-ki8rx]

no we aren't. we will be top mid dps still or maybe with real try hards bottom of top dps....but again as Simon says, with no utility why take a rogue over an additional warrior or melee hunter or warlock etc. All of which do more dps AND have utility. I literally have been saying the same thing on Aggrend's twitter for months since P2. I'm glad that I'm not the only one who is feeling shafted and seeing the glaring holes and issues with our class. Blizzard literally gave our jobs away to Melee Hunter and provided ZERO compensation. Not one single buff all P2 for DPS Rogues. If we are to have no meaningful utility, that's fine.....but then we should be a clear number 1 dps by miles. Because if we cant provide utility then our DPS has to speak for itself or else we are quite literally useless.

[@YoutubeDictatorship2024]

@@PheonixT-ki8rxmeanwhile you are going to continue playing no matter what happens because you are addicted to video games.

[@PheonixT-ki8rx]

actually my sub has been cancelled for over a week. and i told my guild im done. But keep thinking everyone is a shill like you. @@KZbinDictatorship2024

[@YoutubeDictatorship2024]

@@PheonixT-ki8rx I don’t think you understand what a shill is. The worst thing you can do is lie to yourself. Don’t forget that

[@shanemoss741]

amazing content, Subbed

[@DaHamma77]

thanks again for the content

[@rchar1250]

Wish they’d made poisons durations instead of stacks/charges

[@goflux]

Will be interested to see how/if this changes when the phase goes live. It may end up being a ZF/Mara situation where they artificially lock us out of BRD.

[@SimonizeShow]

the p3 preview video blizzard put out specifically said they would have us in Maraudon and BRD with revamped loot

[@setneubauer3851]

We can however count on that anything after BRD is presumably locked. Looking at blizzards track record regarding SoD I think that makes a lot of sense.

[@goflux]

@@SimonizeShow Oh, cool. I hadn't seen that, good to know. I had heard they were revamping the BRD loot, but not that it would be available for p3.

[@tytygreenrich9407]

Ty sir!!

[@TheFuchao]

focused energy could be good on a dungeon tank build. Shuriken does crit alot if geared.

[@andrem443]

Why wouldnt we consider dual wield swords since honor is keep combo points up, no point in running mutiltiate to build combo points. Dragon cry saber slash bleed poison build?

[@the_Acaman]

Exactly. With carnage, saber slash will do as much dmg as mutilate, and we don't need more combo points with honor among thieves.

[@Han10sem]

I Was thinking this to +u get blade flurry and adrenaline rush 100% uptime on bleed with saber for carnage

[@chippitydoooda]

man. Idk if I should play rogue, lock or hunturd. help

[@xMissMaveNx]

Same boat

[@pabloalfaro3768]

Did he mention combat rogue ?

[@GraciousSkillz]

No because combat rogue is slightly behind Ass rogue but if you prefer Combat go for it it isnt much behind people just like min maxing regardless of what they like to play

[@jamespadgett8660]

@@GraciousSkillz I'm using double fist weps atm so I would like combat to be good.

[@ivers1001]

2 in seal fate over 2% hit?

[@glocktopus888]

Hey boss, do I main warrior or rogue next phase?

[@ruben30000]

Warr gonnabe waaay stronger

[@knarf427]

Rogue first and war alt for me, not gonna sword and board no way

[@glocktopus888]

I'm doing it the other way around but if warrior is bad early, I'll jist level my rogue

[@dhoff82]

I’m torn on rogue or warrior what do you guys think

[@idkidgaf]

Warrior, at least you bring buffs to the group.

[@CosmicApe]

Rogues will have to be #1 DPS by a huge margin or they'll be DOA because they are still bringing zero group utility. None of their runes really help in PvP either so the class is getting no meaningful upgrades imo.

[@jimmymemez3977]

New poisons have humunc debuffs

[@DyDaeB]

Focus Attacks useful just with fun of knifes

[@Kurtler10]

yay simon time

[@pickupsticks3942]

we back?

[@Trakhen]

the issue to me is not the raw strength of the class (which is disappointing in itself to me), it's the lack of variety. You only have one good choice per slot basically. If you're a dps rogue you can only really use one Chest rune. Hands? Mutilate, use anything else and your damage just drops Waist? Terrible aoe or a single target ranged shiv. Might as well skip this slot entirely Legs? Envenom, everything else doesnt help in pve. Feet? Master of Subtlety, everything else doesnt help in pve. Wrist? Carnage for more damage or Cut to the Chase to complete the transformation into a carbon copy of a wotlk assassination rogue. The ONLY rune slot that actually comes with any form of decision is head. And that decision is only: do i want more energy to gain Combo Points myself or do i want to press fewer buttons and get more combo points? It''s bland. It's nothing new or exciting, not even in the classic perspective. It's still a 2 Button rotation. Classic: Backstab into Slice and Dice SoD: Mutilate into Envenom At least pvp is better right?

[@gonzalezruben8503]

As a tank main unfair advantage will be a set and forget for me. I always loved that talent in WOTLK but was dissapointed there was very limited use for it then. Plan on going unfair advantage + combat potency because I always get put on a healer group for raid in 20 mans or more. so the HaT combo point gen will be meh most likely.

[@Noxief]

Rogue look "strong", other classes look good and some strong too, so if rogue not gonna be №1-2 DPS, class will be dead again. And all of this runes will be irrelevant because they all about DPS that rogue will not gonna do And runes actually boring, because they all passive and about DPS in raids

[@SimonizeShow]

yep - thats true. since rogues still dont have a unique group buff, they're DOA if they aren't in the top 3-4 damage dealing classes. only time will tell how strong the other classes are

[@Zulgen123]

all they would have to add is trick of the trades but maybe thats too op

[@Noxief]

@@Zulgen123 there is no problem with agro in SoD for tanks, so no, this spell is useless. Rogue need - AOE Fan of Knives, Cloak of Shadow, any unique group raid buff, and make class deal №1-3 logs dps in every phase on bosses, so class that can only DPS can do DPS

[@Arisderp]

Simonize, ima need you to save some women for the rest of us plz.

[@stanlyren7610]

Always goat

[@PrivateTUCK3R]

Holy fuck blizzard never disappoints in how they have no idea what they are doing.

[@KrheaKap]

I'd really hope Combat would make a Combat because the Dungeon daggers look so bad/boring especially against the Fistweapons and Swords...

[@idkidgaf]

Why do rogues still not have Cloak of shadows? Seriously? Help Blizzard see our frustrations!

[@Zulgen123]

sebacious poison will destroy clothies in pvp

[@the_Acaman]

i think it will be good vs anyone, and a must have for pvp. Some classes depend on their armor to defeat us

[@jackbauerqqq]

omfg where is cloak of shadow

[@connorgrant6003]

60 more than likely

[@HL-pu7hh]

Bro we know your name since all that time

[@agentdelta569]

my issue with the expose armour poison is if im a tank, late phase, wanting to run envenom, since suvivability isnt an issue, and i have windfury in the group, i HAVE to run deadly on my offhand, so if i want both, i HAVE to weapon swap constantly, and if i screw it up, alot of raid dps is gone also, i wanted to mention simonize, and please i dont want to sound ungrateful your dps information is amazing, dont get me wrong, but as a tank, this video doesn't show me what talents to run, or what gear to run, your information about tanking is sadly lacking, i dont particularly need it as someone who can do basic theory crafting, and has a parse average over 95

[@wavysinatra]

he usually does his tanking video's later since its his third alt he tanks on

[@kovalsky117]

Feels like another push to get us to tank and, again, no variety in gameplay at all: “Mutilate or death” is dull to play too. No flavor, nothing special. Less a Season of Discovery and rather a Season of Disappointment. Pretty sure that with no utility / support and a disappointing DPS, it will be hard as hell to get a spot in raids.

[@NoSkills1988]

Leave it to Blizzard to implement an 'on surface' nice looking ability (expose poison) which is supposed to give utility and help Rogues - but in the end turn out worse than just doing Expose normally, lol. What a joke.

[@yongedufferin8319]

all the difficulties and hardship we suffered in phase 2..... us rogues deserve to come back

[@Rave.-]

44 second gang.

[@SimonizeShow]

nice work

[@Muranight]

Its joever...

[@emich34]

i really hope thry fix utility for p3... p2 was so shit

[@Tsubaki189]

I hope rogue do not sucks anymore in PvP because goddam it does

[@atlas4603]

Rogues suck at PVP, or you suck at PVP?

[@ruben30000]

Brkrogues aresick in 1v1

[@shadeofheresy]

Rogues are great at pvp, sure warlocks are basically unkillable and shams are tough. Otherwise we beat everything else.

[@slayer7160]

Thanks for the video. But I stopped playing SoD, I want to main rogue nothing else. Too bad who ever is doing the class balancing has it out for rogues. No dps and no utility not even good PvP. They could have given us CoS for PvP and Tricks for utility in raid. But no we get nothing. Shame I kinda liked SoD.

[@knarf427]

Rog worst tank, no utility, no self heal, mediocre damage.. they better buff it

[@MCChimp]

RIP. so were locked into mutilate/deadly brew again, guess i wont be touching rogue this season, most other classes have active choices in what runes to use. rogue is still just the bog standard 3 dps core skills, dosnt even matter what spec youre playing lmao.

[@WattsCastle]

He did not say that? We don’t know yet know how saber slash will perform with bleed rune, right?

[@CosmicApe]

@@WattsCastle Even with being a bleed I see no world where Saber Slash can out DPS a Mutilate build.

[@ivers1001]

@@CosmicApe Unless they make it do like 150% wep dmg and make it generate 2 combo points...yup lol.

[@icecold4o]

Who do you think actually cares what you are gonna play or not, stop feeling that special play something else u don’t have to complain to anyone about it just do it and it’s over with. I bet u aren’t even parsing 99 yet u complain about it being too simple

[@ivers1001]

@@icecold4o ur the maddest and most annoying here bruv. hate to break it to ya

[@tbcstuff3634]

So shouold I bother? Bet other classes will get buffed more.

[@crimsonautumnsun]

I’m a 14 year rogue main and I don’t recommend playing rogue in SoD. Literally every other class in sod has unique fun gameplay loops and many different viable builds. For rogue you’re stuck playing muti and basically pressing 2-3 buttons for the entire raid. And feels the same as wotlk muti rogue which a lot of people are bored if they played classic wotlk

[@CosmicApe]

@@crimsonautumnsun Agreed. I mained Rogue in late P1 and all P2. Was fun for a bit but it's such a one-dimensional spec and that's not going to change in P3.

[@crimsonautumnsun]

Rogue is the biggest loser of SoD by far. Oh boy, mutilate envenom simulator!!! Ya so cool and unique. Complete joke lol

[@kloutfitness5548]

So I shouldn’t re roll rouge? 😢

[@idkidgaf]

@@kloutfitness5548 Rogue is the worst class in sod, both in PVE and PVP.

[@tokopaaisen2927]

Yes, please tell all the rogues to use daggers. Leave the fist set to hunters

[@CosmicApe]

Rogues won't use fists unless non-Mutilate builds are viable, which I doubt

[@flightsimfan89]

I want combat ss rogue, not a useless dagger rogue