The Violin Bow Hold - Beginner Lesson 4 - Russian vs Franco-Belgian Bow Hold

Get here the PDF of my comparison of the Russian vs the Franco-Belgian bow hold: bit.ly/3bc1OSW
The violin bow hold is actually very natural as I show you in this video. Still it is good to know about the different functions of the fingers and the different schools of holding the bow.
More from me:
Violin-Courses: violinshortcuts.com
My Course on Udemy: bit.ly/2L60p5O
30% off for Tomplay with the code "SIMON30": bit.ly/3BDq25I (affiliate link)
Homepage/Blog: www.violin-education.com
Facebook: / simon.streuff
Instagram: / simonstreuff

[@marckroswell8227]

Team Russian Bow Hold XD! It's much more comfortable for my hands and I really love how Jascha Heifetz plays. Just perfection!

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

Both can work! And everything in between!

[@twochopsticks]

The best explanation I have come across for bow hold! Thank you

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

Thank you so much! If you have any topic suggestion, let me know! :)

[@Jesuswinsbirdofmichigan]

Karen is so right, I'm not in a violin owning position but have been following many decent KZbin violinist, violists, and cellist player & makers. This is the most complete explanation I've encountered. Fine work thankyou.

[@pwningnewbs]

this was excellent, i am much more informed about the reason for the bow hold. i have been still struggling with every little detail about setup and bow hold for a few terms of school

[@3primenumber]

Excellent!!!

[@jackmaxwell3134]

Very precise and clear explanation. Thanks a lot!

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

Thank you very much for your comment! :)

[@sarahandrew9374]

Your explanations are so good. Thank you . 😊

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

Thanks so much for the comment!

[@frbobinthomas9630]

Thank u

[@jekaterinapastuha29]

Wonderfull explanation! Thank you!

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

You are welcome :)

[@papacaca1309]

Thanks for very clear explanation..

[@abi2270]

Great video. As a teacher I sometimes get transfer students and I have the hardest time getting their bow hold to become supple and relaxed. They constantly revert back to their straight thumb and stiff pinky (little finger). I'm going to use your tips with the one student I have who has the tightest bow hold I have ever seen. I'll keep you posted.

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

It is also for me not easy to fix already existing bad habits in students bow hands. I get some students from other teachers with a lot of in my eyes bad habits especially in the bow hand. After I initially explained the correct position, sometimes I let things how they are and try to focus on music first. When they catch some serious motivation it is easier to work on these habits.

[@DiaryOfDissonance]

excellent explanations

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

Thank You! :)

[@dvides89]

Hey Simon, what I’ve found is that many beginners tend to squeeze the thumb, that’s why having it below helps with relaxing that finger and helps beginners let the weight drop on the string. Haven’t seen a downside to transition to the Franco-Belgian after that. Just my experience.

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

That could be a situation where I would do that too. But usually I work with starters from the age 6-7 years and up. They have usually not a big problem with the thumb position. Only with very young beginners 5 years and younger I had the need to change the bow hold up to an easier one in the beginning. Both are viable options and we teachers have to decide regarding the situation. I only find myself using this "easy" bow hold less nowadays since I don't see the benefits, unless a student has major problems to hold the bow correctly.

[@cambodianwavelength]

Interesting...thank you.

[@AmandaViolinGirl]

It took me about 6 months to get the bow hold right. In nearly one week I can say I have been playing violin for two years.

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

It usually takes a lot of time and often a regular revisit of the bow hold to get to a good and comfortable bow hold!

[@shrimp7229]

i have subscribed you explain very clearly and easy

[@MrGuillermoraben]

Good

[@leopoldauer7390]

Greatest ever violinist, maestro Zibulkin used the russian bow hold and swore by it.

[@MrGuillermoraben]

Gracias

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

You are welcome :)

[@DanielLizzama]

Remarkable

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

Thank you Daniel!

[@antoniomerolli2117]

I am afraid you are not right about the "collapsing" of the little finger (pinky) as a bad habit. That "collapsing" is an hyperextension of the distal interphalangeal joint and you can clearly see it in photos of Auer (the developer of the "Russian bow hold") and his pupils (like Galamian). Far from being a bad habit, that is a biomechanical response to the different positioning of the other fingers. It is likely related to the finger formula (the relative length of the fingers among themselves) which varies in individuals. It relates to the control of the applied load to the bow in its different regions (closer to the frog or closer to the tip). It is likely that shape of the individual hand and his preferred usage of the length of the bow (which grew constantly in time, nearly doubling from the origin to the 19th century) should determine which bow hold is best for each musician.

[@brianbrazil3082]

Is it okay if I put a sand paper(using double-sided tape) in the place of the thumb? Coz I got sweaty hands the bow always slipped on it and ended up the joint of my thumb sticks to the hair.

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

Not a bad idea to be honest. Atm I have there just regular tape, because I played my thumb leather through... again.

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

but... if you slip, you should try to find a better position for the thumb. It really is a balancing act. If you use force to hold the thumb at the bow it is not great in the long run.

[@MsShadX]

Third week of violin and this bow hold stuff is driving me crazy, i seem to get it but once i have to focus on left hand or sightreading my hand bends in awkward ways

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

Bow hold can be learned pretty easily sometimes, but depending on the hand and fingers can also take years to get right and decades to really master. Just be patient and go back to the basics as often as you can!

[@tullochgorum6323]

As an adult beginner I chose the Russian hold - after a good deal of experimentation. (Yes, it's misnamed - but let's lay that aside.) My reason for preferring the Russian hold is that there are significantly fewer moving parts compared to the FB. Just watch Milstein as the exemplar of simplicity in action. Starting in my 60s, the simpler I can keep things the better! And if it was good enough for so many of the Golden Age maestros, it should be more than good enough for me... It's rather hard to explain why it has fallen so much out of fashion these days - perhaps the influence of Galamian? In any case, I'm pretty happy with my choice.

[@nancymariannamunozvalera7338]

Is correct to use the straigth thumb and the wrist more at the top??? Is possible develop a good sound with this way??? Yes or not??? I like to play with this way like the profesor Emily Ricks...She have youtube channel...Do your could look at this channel and give me your opinion and considerations about this??? Thanks you

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

I checked her videos. She plays nice, but in general I wouldn't recommend to intentionally learn such to my eyes bad habits as a straight thumb and pinky. When you see her wrist at the frog, she has to hold it very high to compensate for the stiff fingers. It works to some extend, but again, I wouldn't recommend to intentionally do that. Well trained and flexible fingers are much more efficient for the movement of the whole bow arm. Also being able to control the bow from the fingers improves your control over subtle motions of the bow.

[@bchill69]

...love your channel/videos! Btw you should pronounce the beginning of "nature" and "natural" the same as "natuerlich" in german.

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

Thank you so much for this tip! I will try to change that! Sounds right, what you say!

[@emilyricksviolin]

Thank you so much for this very informative video! I think it is rare to hear someone explain with professional courtesy the difference between these two bow holds. I agree with so much of what you said, especially concerning the misconceptions of the "Russian" hold. I was so glad to see you using air quotes when referencing the Russian name, indicating that you know that the name is not correct. I wonder if you would consider watching the first 3 minutes of this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/on3TpKKof8yJqNE. As a violinist who uses "Russian" technique, I feel it is time to publicly discuss correcting the misnomer "Russian," in favor of something that is a more accurate reflection of its origins. I would be glad to hear your thoughts, and invite you to join me in the campaign to change the way people refer to this technique. Many thanks for your consideration!

[@CortVermin]

the _HINGE_ help, im hearing voices

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

I overdubbed that word, because Iused wrong word due to my lack of vocabulary when shooting this video. I think you are the first one to notice. ;) It is kind of a funny easteregg...

[@CortVermin]

@@SimonStreuffViolinEducation i thought so, but when i first watched i was really confusing watching with headphones... :D

[@vetobadmusic]

AI is taking over

[@user-ii3rn1mw8u]

Надо же, в России учат сразу держать смычок нормально,не за колодку

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

Привет, у меня была учительница русского языка, поэтому я неплохо знаю, чему там учат, но не могу понять, о чем ты говоришь. Не могли бы вы объяснить, пожалуйста?

[@user-ii3rn1mw8u]

@@SimonStreuffViolinEducation я никогда не видела и не слышала про такой способ обучения детей, как на первом этапе держать большим пальцем за колодку . Сразу обычно ставят руку обычным способом

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

@@user-ii3rn1mw8u Да, держать блок большим пальцем - это трюк, который мне рекомендовали некоторые учителя. Но я обнаружил, что в большинстве случаев в этом нет необходимости! Я стараюсь научить правильному удержанию с самого начала.

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

@@user-ii3rn1mw8u Спасибо. Теперь я понимаю, что вы имели в виду.

[@GoFastBeSafe]

Tell me you disagree with ray chens bowhold without telling me you disagree with Ray chens bowhold 😆 🤣

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

But not with his playing I must add! ;)

[@GoFastBeSafe]

@@SimonStreuffViolinEducation absolutely agreed! but I went back and watched his videos and his straight pinky and thumb drive me NUTS now

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

@@GoFastBeSafe There are certainly violinists out there with cleaner bow holds. But important is that they are comfortable with it and it sounds good... so every rule has exceptions I guess.