Simplify 3+2 and 5-Axis Machining with DWO/TCPC - Haas Automation Tip of the Day

[@ericjacobsen6901]

Great video work showing both vises at the same time (at @3:35).

[@rushyahr7423]

Mark is excellent, i still love these videos

[@ScottMoyse]

this is the best video I've seen to explain TCP. thanks.

[@haasautomation]

Thank you for the positive comment Scott! We are planning some more videos looking at DWO and TCPC in the hopefully not too distant future.

[@ScottMoyse]

excellent. I look forward to them

[@Cobrass2]

Can we see more about Dynamic Work Offset and MRZP?

[@marioaguilar2529]

@@haasautomation WHAT HAPPEND TO THE REST OF THE VIDEOS AND CAN YOU SHOW AS HOW TO DO IT ON A 4TH AXIS

[@hamadal-shuaili9909]

​@@haasautomationThank you Mr.Mark. We are waiting for tcpc and dwo...

[@KennyMustSurvive]

its like TCPM in Heidenhain TNC: M128 (5x) and G80 (3+2)

[@intagliode]

Thats awesome. Nice to see the control doing the work instead of cam.

[@creativetechnologies5394]

Classic control dyinamic work offset how to set up...? One video link

[@witkowskiarkadiusz]

It's very good film, but I have a question. Can I use G2/G3 during TCPM/DWO? In Heidenhain I have problem which circuit interpretation (G2/G3) and symultiniction machining. Thank you very much. 👍

[@marknouj]

Are there any plans to allow for cutter comp while using TCPC?

[@antares18627]

hello Tool Center Point Control is same thing that RTCP (Rotation Tool Center Point) ?

[@gt2rsGuy]

The best explanation about TCPC, thank you.

[@ipadize]

i work on machines with Heidenhain controllers which also use TCP but they also use PLANE function to move the workoffset but dont rotate them in space, how do all the other machines do that?

[@AyoBelajarMandiri-ABM]

In my control g234 didnt work.. any another gcode maybe?

[@michaelpellegrim2493]

I see plenty of TCPC videos. Are there any going over the G268/G269 feature coordinate system? This basically allows all CS's to be non-centerline of rotation driven. Why is no one using this? It makes all Z planes easier to follow by a setup tech. Am I missing somethig?

[@GIANGTHETOOL]

Hello, May I ask if G234 if different with G143? My Haas VF5-50 only supports G143so is it any difference when I post a simultaneous 5axis program, do i have to care about tool length when posting? Thank you

[@haasautomation]

GIANG THE TOOL - G143 is only used with our tilting-head 5-axis machines, like our VR-11. We will use G234 TCPC and G254 DWO on our UMC machines, and on mills equipped with our Next Generation Controls, the TCPC/DWO option, and rotary units. The codes work very differently - if you don’t have a Haas VR machine, you won’t be using a G143 for your tool lengths. We’ll call up or tool lengths with standard G43 Hnn codes, using a G234 when performing simultaneous 5-axis moves or a G254 when running 3+2 (indexing) machining. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day.

[@GIANGTHETOOL]

Thank you Mark for your answer, so that means with my old machine (does not support TPCP), the only way I can do simultaneous 5-axis is put the part model on Cam software exactly where it sits on the table? - Giang

[@cheeriomartinez]

Ok, what if you don't have tcpc? Is there a way to do this with out this expensive feature?

[@tudevoid]

Dies it work good for 4th axis horizontal ec400?

[@dwivedisachin06]

nice, this tip is very help me but please help me. how to do X0.0,Y0.0, and Z0.0 Measure, and how to ture the center of hole

[@henmich]

Will this work on any of the CHC controllers?

[@josephforbes5517]

Is the machine with multiple milling heads that just phase through each other on sale yet?

[@muhndkalil9234]

this agreat video . Iwant to under stand G10L10 and G43 and how each one used to make tool offset?

[@ostry599]

I have wired problem after update software on umc 750: after Bxx.Cxx.; g254; , coords on page position doesnt transform but machine work correctly buy when i put P103P1;Bxx.Cxx;G254;G103P0 It works correct... Some bug in new soft? Greetings.

[@CesarDarioContreras]

Hello, I am asking this question, you can configure a Haas EC1600 for a program to calculate the coordinates relative to the center of the table. For example loading in the center of the plate G54 (already known), and a program with a G55 in a displaced center piece, create a macro that will return the value of the center of rotation ?. I hope you understand my English is bad.

[@ScottMoyse]

Hi Mark, in this video you don't show the use of DWO (G254) but you mention it a couple of times. According to the documentation it looks as though you can only use G234 OR G254, so you can't use them at the same time. Could you use TCPC for positional machining instead of DWO? Just trying to get a more detailed understanding of the differences between the two... Also as a side note, does TCPC improve on Inverse Time from a smoothness standpoint?

[@haasautomation]

Scott - You’ve got it. This video is really for simultaneous 5-Axis (G234), while our G254 video will be on 3+2 only. You’d really want to stick with G254 for positioning, not G234. Feedrates with G234 are typically in Feed Per Minute, which makes things really simple, compared with the G93 Inverse Time Feedrates we used to use. Our IMTS demo had quite a bit of G254 DWO 3+2 positioning in it, while the simultaneous 5-axis moves were done with G234 TCPC. You can check out that video at kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYOZZaCPq7ZqmZI. - Mark, Tip of the Day

[@ScottMoyse]

Haas Automation, Inc. awesome Cheers for the extra info.

[@tubbytimmy8287]

This is actually EZPZ

[@mattkedz6577]

Looks fantastic. Might get a UMC 750. Can't wait.

[@mikhailsusin2916]

Haas have gcode for indexial 3+2 , like fanuc g68.2? g254 support g2 g3 command and drill cycles like in indexial mode fanuc g68.2?

[@haasautomation]

Mikhail - Yes, the G254 code supports G02, and G03 arcs and all of our standard drills cycles like G83 peck drilling. You can learn more about this code from our Mill Manual that you can download from our website www.haascnc.com . G254 is for 3+2 indexing, and G234 is for simultaneous 5-axis work. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day

[@Mohammadreza.r]

how to exit from center of C Table????

[@donl2494]

If I want to drill and tap a hole at 45 degrees, can I turn on tcpc rotate my B and run my 2d program. Do I need to turn off G234?

[@haasautomation]

Don L - For 5-axis drilling (and regular 2d programs) we use our standard drilling cycles (G81, G83…) with our G254 DWO Dynamic Work Offset feature. G254 DWO is used for indexing, 3+2, while we reserve G234 TCPC for simultaneous 5-axis work. Thanks for the comment. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day

[@levonyeganyan1922]

Mark you are genius 👋🤠👋

[@Peter_Riis_DK]

TCPC is EZPZ.

[@ORUboy08]

Hello, great video on TCPC/DWO, thank you! If I have a VF-4SS with the Next Generation Control and attach a TR160 rotary table for 5-axis machining, how do I define to the control where the TR160 is relative to the machine coordinate system?

[@lukaszkrupa9677]

U must run MRZP procedure

[@russellbarfield4590]

Hi Mark, I have my TCPC and DWO set up on my VF5ss using with a TR160. I keep getting a INCOMPATIBLE TOOL LENGTH OFFSET USED alarm when i tries to run G254 in my program. Is there any other parameter that needs to be changed so it will work?

[@haasautomation]

Russell - We’ll see this alarm (alarm #2019) if Setting 64 “T Ofs Meas Uses Work” is set to Off, and a G254 is called. On a mill with the TCPC/DWO feature enabled, we need to turn on Setting 64 and only set Tool/Work Offsets with the probe. This is important, if you try and set your tool lengths manually (no probe), with Setting 64 On, your tool length offsets can be very confusing. For more information, give your local HFO a call and they can help you out. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day

[@russellbarfield4590]

Thanks you so much for your quick reply ......Haas Automation, Inc #1...... user since 1993

[@cosmingheorghe8251]

still I do not know what is the difference between 3+2, 4+1 and 5 axis. who can help me understand?

[@WCGwkf]

Cosmin Gheorghe I would imagine when there is a + involved the first number is the machine's standard number of working axis and the second number as an add on like a haas trunnion adding 2 axis to a 3 axis machine making it a 5 axis machine. a 5 axis machine would have all 5 working axis as standard xyzab

[@cosmingheorghe8251]

thanks

[@ycccpmtjakesullivan2692]

@retardbarf That's correct. You could also say it like this: 3+2 is running a 3-axis program on a plane established by the 4th and 5th axis's.

[@danhyde7501]

what the difference between TCPC and DWO?

[@haasautomation]

Dan Hyde - TCPC is used for simultaneous 4- or 5-axis work, while DWO is for 3+2 - Haas Automation

[@WCGwkf]

do you guys mostly use 5th axis fixtures and vises? I used to work there. pretty cool to see it in your videos.

[@jonasfortes5744]

Hi. My name is Jonas and I live in Brazil. I am an English teacher and a machining teacher, too. I would like to translate and subtitle these great videos to Portuguese. Does the company allow me to do that?

[@karthikeyan-jl2cf]

This program work offset please....

[@samuelirons5548]

Can you upgrade to the NGC?

[@ScottMoyse]

I don't think so. not without retro fitting new servos, drives and rewiring.

[@DuRöhre4711]

Finally a Lang Vise to be seen ;)

[@danarrington2224]

If you've never been exposed to true 5 axis machining this might not make much sense. Before we had TCPC if you needed to do 5 axis simultaneous machining you had to rely entirely on your CAM system. You would have to describe the full kinematics of your machine including the XYZ location of the center of the rotary axes. Then, one way or another, you would tell the CAM system where X0Y0Z0 on your part was relative to the centerline of the rotary axes. The CAM system would crunch all the numbers and spit out a program for you. The only problem was, if you needed to make fine adjustments to the part, you had to go back to the CAM system, make the changes there and post out a new program. It worked but it was clunky. The logic behind TCPC is that your program can now simply describe the tool motion as if the part were completely stationary AND the center of rotation is always at the tip of the tool. Effectively taking all considerations for machine kinematics away from the CAM system and giving that responsibility to the CNC control. Now it doesn't matter if your fixture is a few thousandths off center. The CNC control will automatically adjust for that while it processes the program in real time to create the machine motion. All you have to do is make the corresponding shift in your work offset and the control does the rest. Every major CNC control has this capability now and it may even come as a shock to you that they all work exactly the same way. They all use the exact same math and they all call it "TCP". If you only do 3+1 or 3+2 machining you'll never use this. Haas DWO on the other hand needs some work. What it can do, it does well but the problem is that it's really only good for demonstrations. That's because in the real world NOTHING is ever perfect. Say you are machining a hole on the side of your part that has a very small true position tolerance. You run through your setup part and during inspection you notice that this hole is out of position by .0015". There is no easy way to make this adjustment on a Haas. What you really need is a fine adjustment calculation that runs AFTER the G254 has calculated the new coordinates. I have a macro that I developed 20 years ago that can do everything G254 does plus it lets me make those adjustments very easily. If I can do that there's no reason why Haas Automation can't do something similar or even better than that. If you constantly make parts that have tolerances tighter than .005" you know what I'm sayin'

[@dalenaegeli3484]

And what does this do for me in programming any part? Looks like a smoke show to me.

[@rusticagenerica]

I wish gods from all religions could bless you multiple times for making such a nice video, with such a great viedi edits, that truly shows us verything very simply. THANK YOU§§

[@cnc-ua]

Awesome. Demo is the most beautiful thing to get used to it

[@gerardkrige875]

It’s real impressive, but only if your brand new UMC-750 can hold a tolerance better than +- 0.2mm (0.0079”)…

[@nf794]

Does this work on siemens

[@burdickjp]

In Siemens this is called Traori

[@nf794]

@@burdickjp do you know a good source to learn from regarding this topic?

[@burdickjp]

@@nf794 This is that rare place where Siemens has good documentation available: cache.industry.siemens.com/dl/files/454/37335454/att_110322/v1/SIN_WF5_0509_en.pdf Traori is section 3.5

[@CahirAepCeallah]

Its flying around the piece doing nothing. It looks cool but i does nothing. I dont actually understand whats the point of using this when you program in cam software. Some practical applcation of TCPC would be useful.

[@kyledombrowski7051]

Heidenhain has been doing this for decades

[@Mt15621]

Right!

[@stevenguevara3242]

those are 5th axis vises

[@spilamigre2360]

Thank you!

[@TommiHonkonen]

1000's of lines per sec sounds cooler than 4 lines.

[@Ramakteknik36]

Nice

[@kuei1215]

Like always, they tell yow what is does; but, not how to do it.

[@新新朱]

For safety,we need simulation.

[@miguelmuniz8742]

新新朱 if you soft af

[@jackflash6377]

Now add 3D laser scanning and STL recognition so all we do is load the stock, load the STL file and the machine does the rest. no need for CAM anymore.

[@millerchassis6119]

can you do that? that would be amazing.

[@sharpstuffaudwayne5086]

wow