Simulation

Dr. Joscha Bach is VP of Research at AI Foundation and Author of Principles of Synthetic Intelligence, focused on how our minds work, and how to build machines that can perceive, think, and learn.
bach.ai
Twitter ► / plinz
LinkedIn ► / joschabach
SHOW NOTES 📝
0:00 Open
0:17 Hello & welcome
0:37 Dr. Joscha Bach bio and introduction
0:56 "It's an insane world; an amazing time to be alive"
3:46 Conversation on the S-curve; current instability based on not handling aftermath of collapse of Industrial Revolution society with the advent of the Internet
8:22 "Either kids or long-term civilization"; carbon sequestration involves not burning any carbon at all
10:08 Organizing principles conflict with systems bent on infinite growth
14:30 More on Dr. Bach at Cambridge; entrepreneurial journey leads to MIT and then AI Foundation
16:23 Relationship between the physical world and our minds; pattern generation; types of computers
18:10 Mathematics vs. Computation
19:20 Accidental question-Dr. Bach's thoughts on psychedelics
20:27 Turing, "something is true if you can prove it"
23:14 Quantum computing discussion; Minecraft CPU example; "is our universe efficiently implemented or inefficiently implemented?"
23:50 Relationship between mind and universe; observational interface
27:28 Materialism and idealism may complement each other
29:08 Dream space neural architecture; "you and me are characters in a multimedia novel being authored by the brain"; the collective is part of your dream
31:51 Necessity of ability to change the way you perceive vs. changing a physical world; perception upgrade is really a will or desire upgrade
34:12 What is a model? Perspectives of variables and their relationship; probabilities
35:58 Model convergence to truth aided by probabilities; motivations guide preferences
38:00 People are born with ideas and then acquire preferences; motivation is how you regulate and push against reality; feedback loop from brain regulating body, awareness and unawareness of loops
41:28 Needs don't form a hierarchy; they coexist and compete
43:00 "the shape of your soul is the hierarchy of your purposes"
45:26 Neurons; dopamine and other brain chemicals speak many languages; "neurons get fed if you regulate what you want to regulate"
48:50 Social interaction and brain chemistry; neurons work through pattern recognition, then patterns in the patterns
51:43 Auditory (and all) senses build layers until we get a unified model of the world/universe
53:24 Question-who's in charge of the super-intelligence; single mind; which kind of system; sane/insane implementation
59:50 Precepts; spatial intelligence; pattern to perception to worldview; intentional self
1:02:36 Self controls simulations in the brain; "only a simulation can be conscious"
1:05:05 "The reason why you perceive the world as meaningful is because it's generated in your mind to model your meaning."
1:07:10 Everything you can perceive is generated by your mind; model of architecture
1:11:45 Use of the DLPFC (dorsolateral prefrontal cortex); "hippocampus has a script"; neurons individually not that important, somewhat interchangeable, just a signal processor
1:14:52 "it's hard to wake a sleeping person; it's impossible to wake a person pretending to sleep"
1:17:52 "The family of good people" is a human condition; morals need to guide our decisions but not our model-making
1:19:00 Scientists and philosophers are mostly confused people, humble but without answers; Dunning-Kruger Effect
1:20:40 Understanding the nature of reality; "which way can I be useful to other people?"; why are we drawn to things that don't have utility, like politics on current social media
1:24:20 Social media done right are individual thoughts in the same mind, "Gaia doesn't exist but it would be very useful to have one"; endgame of social media is a global brain
1:26:15 Current society optimized for short games; "tumors"
1:29:02 Lebowski Theorem - "No super-intelligent system is going to do anything that is harder than hacking its own reward function"
1:31:12 "Imagine you build an AI that is way smarter, why SHOULD it serve us?"
1:32:20 "Maybe our motivational function is wrapped up in a big ball of stupid so we don't debug it;" opting out of reality; how can we balance super-intelligence, will, and evolution or conditions of existence
1:34:08 Philosophical remarks; reiteration that things are just happening, making it very difficult to predict outcomes; there isn't a running simulation of a better society so it's difficult to make changes
1:36:15 Life is about cells, and cells are very rare
1:38:08 Would have to be a larger, more imperceptible pattern around us and how would we know; Minecraft example
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[@SimulationSeries]

SHOW NOTES 📝 0:00 Open 0:17 Hello and welcome 0:37 Dr. Joscha Bach bio and introduction 0:56 Commentary on the direction of our world; "it's an insane world; an amazing time to be alive"; last important bifurcation was the Industrial Revolution 3:46 More on being "on top of the parabola"; conversation on the S-curve; turning of time on monotheistic religion, then Industrial Revolution; current instability based on not handling aftermath of collapse of Industrial Revolution society with the advent of the Internet, etc. 6:45 Multi-generational environmental trends with all species on Earth including man 8:22 "Either kids or long-term civilization"; "people zoo" idea; carbon sequestration involves not burning any carbon at all 10:08 Organizing principles conflict with systems bent on infinite growth 10:49 Dr. Bach background in Weimar, East Germany; "small parties and big parties of ideas"; scientific consensus eventually changes because it's a political force, not a truth force 13:56 "Belief should not be a verb; it's not related to us." 14:30 More on Dr. Bach at Cambridge; entrepreneurial journey leads to MIT and then AI Foundation 16:23 Relationship between the physical world and our minds; pattern generation; types of computers 18:10 Mathematics vs. Computation 19:20 Accidental question-Dr. Bach's thoughts on psychedelics 20:27 Turing, "something is true if you can prove it"; pi is a function, not a value, but physics behaves if it's a value; computation as a metaphor of moving from state to state 23:14 Quantum computing discussion; Minecraft CPU example; "is our universe efficiently implemented or inefficiently implemented?" 23:50 Relationship between mind and universe; observational interface 27:28 Materialism and idealism may complement each other; leaving the mind alone and changing reality instead of vice versa 29:08 Dream space neural architecture; "you and me are characters in a multimedia novel being authored by the brain"; the collective is part of your dream 31:51 Necessity of ability to change the way you perceive vs. changing a physical world; record player example; perception upgrade is really a will or desire upgrade 34:12 What is a model? Perspectives of variables and their relationship; probabilities 35:58 Model convergence to truth aided by probabilities; preference relationships are like colors of the relationships; motivations guide preferences 38:00 People are born with ideas and then acquire preferences; motivation is how you regulate and push against reality; feedback loop from brain regulating body, awareness and unawareness of loops 41:28 Needs don't form a hierarchy; they coexist and compete; survival isn't a need, it's more complicated than that 43:00 "the shape of your soul is the hierarchy of your purposes"; ego; "Allen simulation", the next-best option 45:26 Neurons; dopamine and other brain chemicals speak many languages; "neurons get fed if you regulate what you want to regulate" 48:50 Social interaction and brain chemistry; neurons work through pattern recognition, then patterns in the patterns 51:43 Auditory (and all) senses build layers until we get a unified model of the world/universe 53:24 Question-who's in charge of the super-intelligence; single mind; which kind of system; sane/insane implementation 57:00 Time when there's an optimal function of a system; waking up in a different animal suit; what is it you see in the mirror; bottom-up algorithms 59:50 Precepts; spatial intelligence; pattern to perception to worldview; intentional self 1:02:36 Self controls simulations in the brain; self "architecture"; "only a simulation can be conscious" 1:05:05 "The reason why you perceive the world as meaningful is because it's generated in your mind to model your meaning." 1:07:10 Everything you can perceive is generated by your mind; model of architecture 1:11:45 Use of the DLPFC (dorsolateral prefrontal cortex); "hippocampus has a script"; neurons individually not that important, somewhat interchangeable, just a signal processor; the brain makes efforts to keep functionality intact; constraints of the universe 1:14:52 "Are we individually intelligent?" Not generally so; generations and generations of specialized people have to talk to each other; rebuilding efforts usually get foundations wrong; Roman Empire breakdown led to Dark Ages; "it's hard to wake a sleeping person; it's impossible to wake a person pretending to sleep" 1:17:52 "The family of good people" is a human condition; morals need to guide our decisions but not our model-making 1:19:00 Human-centric social media; scientists and philosophers are mostly confused people, humble but without answers; Dunning-Kruger Effect 1:20:40 More on social media; understanding the nature of reality; "which way can I be useful to other people?"; why are we drawn to things that don't have utility, like politics on current social media 1:24:20 Social media done right are individual thoughts in the same mind, "Gaia doesn't exist but it would be very useful to have one"; endgame of social media is a global brain 1:26:15 Continued discussion of case for not-Gaia; current society optimized for short games; "tumors" 1:29:02 Lebowski Theorem - "No super-intelligent system is going to do anything that is harder than hacking its own reward function" (Lebowski pic); digital Gaia; loss of fear by system definition; monkey or mind? 1:31:12 "Imagine you build an AI that is way smarter, because otherwise humanity wouldn't build it? Why SHOULD it serve us?" 1:32:20 "Maybe our motivational function is wrapped up in a big ball of stupid so we don't debug it;" opting out of reality; how can we balance super-intelligence, will, and evolution or conditions of existence 1:34:08 Philosophical remarks; reiteration that things are just happening, making it very difficult to predict outcomes; there isn't a running simulation of a better society so it's difficult to make changes 1:36:15 Simulation Q1: Do you think we're alone in the cosmos; life is about cells, and cells are very rare 1:38:08 Simulation Q2: Do you think we're in a simulation; would have to be a larger, more imperceptible pattern around us and how would we know; Minecraft example 1:41:15 Renderings to the mind; depends on the algorithm 1:41:55 Simulation Q3: What do you think is the most beautiful thing in the world? No single answer; depends 1:43:13 Closing remarks and thanks 1:44:12 Closing screen/music What do you guys think about the Nature of Reality? Our future with AGI? Let us know your thoughts in the comments below! Much love :)

[@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017]

This is mind bending. Thank you.

[@LeonGalindoStenutz]

Excellent interview; beautiful, useful, functional summary / index / outline. Thanks

[@denslyss]

Joscha is an amazing person and a remarkable mind in AI, the dude deserves more credit. www.theaxclinic.com/articles/2020/9/20/joscha-bach-the-lovable-nerd-of-ai

[@malcolmluca7893]

instablaster

[@Wingedmagician]

Thanks!

[@juggernaut4799]

Is anyone else on a Joscha Bach marathon after Lex Fridman's podcast? I can't believe I wasn't aware of such a brilliant man up until now. Looking forward to watching this one... looks promising!

[@8.5.edibles]

Thank god for lex

[@mamaoms]

I am.

[@M0481]

Yuppp!

[@EannaButler]

A new subscription to a new channel here, off the Lex dreamlike interview! All I can say is thanks youtube..

[@Perseus3105]

that is exaclty what im doing

[@Krath1988]

First saw Dr. Bach on Lex Fridman's show and am in love with his radically sober and scientific view of existence. Another great interview.

[@SimulationSeries]

Yes agreed, thank you!

[@anatoliymoroz1]

AffordYourNuance same here, JRE-lex-Bach. He’s gonna be the next big thing, just need 1 appearance on a big platform like JRE

[@boeandthelizards]

I saw that interview I thought it was good but this interviewee is really on another level I think. Lex was good in terms of his Brilliance but he had some sort of internal struggle with processing Core Concepts where is in this funeral View he's right there with him.

[@CarlosMartinez-xz2ue]

Yes its great to see people on the same page..

[@mabusestestament]

@Anatoliy Moroz I think it might be a bit difficult for JRE. In all interviews and lectures of Bach I've heard he talks on a level that needs the audience to be familiar with certain terms, concepts etc. I fear that for quite a big part of the JRE audience this just comes across as word salad.

[@LuminarSeekers]

The interviewer is great, I identify with him and he represents the target audience very well: an intelligent listener in awe of amazing intellect. Thank you for the opportunity to listen to this great conversation. (Edit: also I have a similarity cool t-shirt!)

[@EannaButler]

The very fact that you had Joscha Bach on, but more, that you "kept up with him" for nearly 2h and kept the conversation rolling, is an easy subscription to your channel, for me. Thank you!

[@SimulationSeries]

Thank you very much Eanna!

[@trekgirl83]

I feel like I have learned more from Joscha than I did for years studying psychology.

[@msnzbody3712]

Gay men are smarter and more intuitive. Go Joscha!

[@bossgd100]

​@@msnzbody3712what ? 🤣

[@misitcanic8340]

@@msnzbody3712 he has a wife and kids so no he is not gay

[@aiaudiosecrets]

That´s one of those one-in-a-billion guys. Thank you for two more hours of Bachs ideas. Now I know what to think about for the next decades.

[@tigerwas8309]

whatever life i have left, i shall live it according to what this extraordinary mind shares and teaches..attempting, no matter how feebly, to understand..thank you, Joscha Bach and all those who are here with him..

[@glassrocketstair]

I love that Joscha just keeps talking despite the deer in the headlights stares he's getting lol. The information density of his sentences is through the roof, but that makes it difficult to follow unless you've also read all of the math, philosophy, religion, evolutionary biology, physics, psychology, neuroscience, and political theory that he's referencing

[@zoltanczesznak976]

This guy must be easily in the top 3 most intelligent people of our time! Amazing insights...

[@SimulationSeries]

Yes! Joscha is on another level.

[@spikezlee]

i think he is most intelligent person i ever listen to .it is funny how my thoughts and his align

[@AnilKumarnn]

These moments cannot be repeated.

[@hv1461]

How is it that I am only now discovering this outstanding individual ? Here I had thought I had heard many of the best and brightest on YT. But Mr. Bach seems to have gifts at another level. I can only hope that he and people like him can be forces for good and help get us through these current dark times.

[@MrBrukmann]

Joscha needs to have a disclaimer before he talks, I feel like I need an ice pack for my brain

[@chamathwijeratne]

Thank goodness he came on Lex’s podcast. He is brave enough to speak the truth even if it is uncomfortable.

[@xmathmanx]

everyone who interviews this guy suddenly feels like they're not the smartest guy in the room

[@HollyBluePlanet]

I want to see him interviewed by a serious psychonaut acid head.

[@atomipi]

true, most of the population are thick idiots

[@garthwoodworth3558]

Everyone seems to want to make that kind of hierarchy. I.e. and put him at the top of it. Bach himself himself says at some point that we all suspect this truth, or at least suspect the falseness that is so commonly handed out as reality. He says we are trained to be asleep because waking up puts us at odds with the social structure. I think the reason he seems so smart to many is mostly because they think it is so difficult to wake up

[@xmathmanx]

@@garthwoodworth3558 if there is no hierarchy of smartness Donald trump is as smart as joscha bach, you want to go with that? 😁

[@garthwoodworth3558]

richard hewat He is saying we are all systems, creating our own realities. As part of those realities, the experiences we have with others are also created by us. For example, we can create a world that justifies our own self-hate or self-love. We do that in the absence of any true underlying reality. Because of the factors at play, we have created a world dominated by Trump

[@nomanshigh3058]

Joscha must think confused and amazed is the default facial expression for people listening to him talk. Lex Fridman was the same. 😮😐

[@alexduncan1974]

That's exactly what I was thinking !

[@artemioyuddor]

Joscha is playing professional chess and the interviewer is just admiring the black and white squares on the board. Thanks for the interview though. Great content! Check mate, mate... no Gaia. "It has no structure!"

[@B_K69]

Thats why so few views.. this is a less than impressive interview. Especially after the Lex Friedman interview.

[@douglasjamesmartin]

It would have to be explained through something aside from evolutionary dynamics.

[@JL-1735]

Guys give the host a break, he's talking to someone that is very intelligent and spent a huge amount of time researching the various topics he is talking about. This is more or less explicitely stated in the interview. Thanks for giving us such an awesome conversation with great insights! I don't agree with everything but there's a lot to learn from. One of the things that's a bit shoddy is the idea that we are on top of the parabole. That thought seems to originate more from a discontinuity in our mental model of the past and the future, which might create an impression that "now" is an extremely special time and things will go in a completely different direction from now on. Whenever the current time is considered "extra special" you need to have a very strong suspicion. The chance of this happening and living exactly at the time of the inflection point is small, and as I said more likely to stem from an illusion about how we reason about the past and future. But still, certainly thought provoking stuff!

[@prof.m.ottozeeejcdecs9998]

No conscious GAIA, maybe, but some localized cooperation happens.

[@ObsessiveClarity]

When I first saw this video, my world-view was changed in 5 hours (had to pause, take notes, think) more significantly than in the previous 5 years.

[@gregoryw1]

0:00 Open 0:17 Hello & Welcome 0:37 Joscha proceeds to completely blow our minds for the next hour and 44 minutes

[@nana7gal]

In response to the comment below, the exact same thought I have >>> “I can’t believe I wasn’t aware of such a brilliant man up until now.” I knew Lex Fridman from JRE, and Joscha Bach from the recent Lex’s podcast. I’m only half way through the clip, but I love this already. Actually love this talk more than the one with Lex to be honest. Here the host let Joscha escalate his thought more freely (which helps a lot for me to focus), but also joined the discussion in a good way. Was there something wrong with the KZbin algorithm a year ago when this was posted? Why so few views and even fewer Likes!? This is brilliant. I subscribed the channel just now. Keep up the good work!

[@SimulationSeries]

Thank you so much nana! :) Glad you found great value in it

[@dru4670]

I can tell you I have gone through the same exact cycles. Am starting to think there's a flow to things in this universe 😂

[@nana7gal]

tri0ppy stuff We really got caught up in a universe of the KZbin algorithm flow ;D Have you gone next to the video “35C3 The Ghost in the Machine”? His talk and Q&A there are brilliant. Check it out!

[@chris.michols]

Why are there so few views? There are so many brilliant (to me they are) thoughts and ideas broadcasted on this channel. Me finding here, this conversation in particular, is as if youtube knew the last two-three years of my thinking patterns. But thoughts and motivations can’t be predicted right!? ;)

[@anglez4142]

After reading your comment, I'm going to 'like' the video despite what I said above. I might take issue with Bach's conclusions (or, better put, his assumptions), but the interview, like so many on this channel, is full of great content. I agree and would definitely want to see a whole lot more views and many more people thinking about these things!

[@SimulationSeries]

Thank you both for the kind words! Keep spreading the messages & building the future :)

[@roodborstkalf9664]

The algorithm has decided this guy is too smart for nearly all other persons.

[@StephenPaulKing]

This is deeep stuff!

[@chrisc1257]

There are so few views because people don't understand things they can't control and even if they were smart enough to watch they would also figure out that they are being lied to. The noble lie is alive and conniving.

[@jkederyte]

Finally some support to what's happening in my head, and affirmation that it doesn't mean I am a bad person having those thoughts which hardly anyone I know around me understands or wants to think of at all. I so much sympathize Joscha Bach on many of his experiences... Thank you @Simulation for streaming this.

[@gridcoregilry666]

if you want to go deeper into this idea, search for Stoicism

[@douglasjamesmartin]

"its dificult to predict things, ESPECIALLY when they are in the future" his ideas are so sparse, its amazing he can navigate them so skillfully. So accurate

[@RaviAnnaswamy]

Though that quote is a yogi berra quote I think, I felt the same sense of wonder on how he navigates through so many ideas each time, each idea brings its own matrix and then they fade away. I think it could be because of a lack of a central story telling ego, but going with the flow where he brings up a concept and brings 10-20 details to make sense of it. His ideas that did not come from slide are as deep as those from the slides and that is something!

[@nibblrrr7124]

Quote Investigator says its first documented occurence is a 1948 autobiography of Danish politician Karl Kristian Steincke, in a section titled "And finally a couple of parliamentary howlers" - implying he's not the source, but rather an unnamed politician or humorist, or that it's a folk witticism. They found multiple posthumous attributions to (most often) Danish physicist Niels Bohr, but also Sam Goldwyn. Nostradamus, Yogi Berra, and (of course) Mark Twain.

[@preston_is_on_youtube]

Agreed. This is how someone expresses thoughts when starting from first principles

[@thewaythingsare8158]

One of the most profound and illuminating minds I've ever had the pleasure to encounter. A beautiful candle in the dark.

[@michaelmorrisinfarsi]

Thank you so much Josha Bach. Your theories on networks, modeling and simulating has helped my Tourette’s syndrome and OCD immensely. I understand my brain on a whole new level. And I feel like I am starting to “decentralize” it. To really try to understand and fix the models and networks in my brain that are malfunctioning. I love how all this science stuff I’ve been getting into has been helping me heal. Much love and peace to all.

[@andrescolon]

His mind is incredibly insightful. I would like Joscha to talk for hours and learn from his perspective.

[@hawkarmstrong1600]

This interview helps me feel not alone. I’m not crazy or “out there” and these gentleman help me understand that.

[@RediscoverOwnSoulEssence]

I feel the same

[@McKinleyMorann]

This guy is next-level. Brilliant insights. Very inspiring

[@holonaut]

"And then the last question: what do you think is the most beautiful thing in the world?" "That's something that is different depending on every moment I'm in, because it depends on my current configuration. I don't think there is a single answer to this"

[@Simrasil_]

Great interview! I've been watching every talk I could find with Joscha Bach recently, really one of my favorite intellectuals of our time.

[@SimulationSeries]

Thank you! Yes agreed, Joscha ranks in the top, he's on fire :)

[@cassielgaube4709]

Hey, I'm also discovering joscha's work. I'm blown away, yes. What other great talks, interviews, resources from him have you really appreciated ? many warm thanks, X

[@Simrasil_]

@@cassielgaube4709 He gave another great interview on the Singularity Weblog if you haven't already seen that: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rJPKdnZsoaZqetE He covers somewhat similar topics but it's pretty much impossible to grasp everything he says listening only once anyways so ^^ also if you understand german he was a guest on the alternativlos podcast: alternativlos.org/42/ (complete tangent btw but he recommends liu cixins three body problem in that podcast one of the best reads I've had in quite a while, definitely check it out if you're into sciency sci-fi ^^)

[@LE0NSKA]

1:36:23 "if there are others, they're alone too" haha god damn

[@ellepeterson9992]

Thank you for hosting him and letting him speak. And you are a great conduit to us laypeople. Much love. And invite him back!💛💛💛

[@THash-qs5qg]

This guy doesn't make you feel 'happy' about ourselves but he's brilliant and most likely on to something very profoundly real. Good work Joscha!

[@GoalOrientedLifting]

He made me happy, as he gave me an insight in how he thinks.

[@Greetingsearthling22]

He makes me happy about myself because I take myself less serious. We are primates. There’s a constant tug-of-war between our intelligence and our monkey minds. 🐒🐵

[@LukeKendall-author]

Personally I find stunning vistas of happiness in all these ideas. That consciousness could evolve in the incredible universe around us is a source of awe and wonder, yielding eagerness to achieve more.

[@Known-unknowns]

Well I’ve watched it three times . . . and I need to watch it again.

[@neptunethemystic]

52:52 The moment when reality couldn't even keep up with Joshcha

[@worekarolis]

multiple theories sound multiple

[@Thombon]

imma sample this

[@DanielThomasArgueta]

🤯

[@commonmogoreanu7135]

Wow. I want to add a like every time I hear a great idea and it's every 5 minutes in this talk.

[@greptheloot]

Gotta say, huge fan of your take on being a human Joscha, you always have a way of proving your speculation, later in your thought process.

[@stephanierising4368]

Finally. Can listen to someone brilliant and alive.

[@david8157]

Joscha has a unique and extraordinary mind. To follow and try too understand one of his discussions is a mini-course in modern philosophical science. I have no idea if what he says it right or true but it is fascinating and always worth listening to and reflecting on.

[@werquantum]

I’m as entertained by the look on the host’s face as I am with the guest.

[@Gotchaaaaaa]

Solid interview, my man. You developed a great rapport with Mr Bach (much respect you too Joscha!). Looking forward to the next one!

[@nb8298]

Dr Joscha always makes me smile, and think of quote "gamify life", such a great conversation, better than any elite university lecture, all free thank you

[@MarcEllis405]

I devour everything JB, this is one of the best and astounding! Still!

[@johnpersad5557]

Joscha Bach is the New Messiah! I can’t get enough of him to understand myself better!🤩🤩🤩🤩🤯🤯🌹🌹🌹🤗🤗🤗💯💚💚💚💚💚💚

[@arddermout6946]

Somehow I got from glitching out google translate results to this guy. Confirming my believe that fucking around with NLP(natural language processing) has the keys to a higher intelligence, similar to how alchemy led to chemistry in a weird way. By experimenting on new grounds we often fail but eventually we find the truths hidden within the experiment.

[@last_lost_lamenter]

Really listening and paying attention sometimes. Replaying and using Bach's vision as background noise. Either way this gentleman has moved me to levels of consciousness beyond what many have dreamed. We make our past from our present, towards the futures that we'll experience in other lives we've had.....

[@jsimp8540]

Very impressed you were able to keep up with him and follow along. You don’t get to pause and think about what he said like I do.

[@bluntedvegas7028]

the incredible Joscha Bach

[@fiveshorts]

Such calm, considered, thoughtful host questions. Great job. You can always tell with Joscha whether he respects his interviewer or not.

[@gridcoregilry666]

Thank you for uploading this for free to the interwebz. Great conversation, LOTS of absolute mind blowing insights / ideas and an amazing T-Shirt of the host! Love from Germany

[@SimulationSeries]

Glad you found value in it Julio! Appreciate the friendly compliment

[@donniedavis6163]

Dr Joscha Bach is on a different level in every way. I think he might of already invented AI and hooked it up to his brain.

[@timothyschoorel6861]

Dr. Joscha Bach asks: How can you build and motivate a system that is not at its core stupid? In other words, what core idea, motivation or prime directive do we want to give our children of Super Intelligence? I think I have the one-word answer: Understanding. To me it seems that this also happens to be our own prime directive, despite all of our apparent stupidity and our tendency to seek refuge in dogmatic thinking. Which brings us right back to Gödel who understood and proved that understanding transcends all systems of thought. For this reason, understanding is eternal motivation. And for those of us who think this is all a bit too cerebral: there is a reason why we often mention "love and understanding" together.

[@CandidDate]

If understanding is the goal, the computer will just sit there, understanding. What drives humans is need for food and sleep. All stems from these two needs. "Food, sanitation, and climate variation." If a computer is to accomplish anything useful, we will need to program some form of need in the system. Like many motivators such as pleasure, the computer could pervert our programmed goals very easily. If we program it to need to make paperclips, for example, it could see humans as a hindrance to maximizing the number of paperclips in the world and kill us all for all of our atoms to make more paperclips.

[@timothyschoorel6861]

@@CandidDate You need to revisit Gödel and read The Emperor's New Mind by Roger Penrose. An algorithm understands nothing.

[@CandidDate]

@@timothyschoorel6861 So are you for or against Super Intelligence aiding humankind in the future?

[@timothyschoorel6861]

@@CandidDate I expect Super Intelligence, but without subjective awareness, without inner consciousness, this Super Intelligence will just be a kind of Super Zombie. Acting very smart and talking the talk, but ultimately completely unaware and understanding nothing. I just hope humanity and biological life won't go extinct because of an algorithm without awareness. A symbiosis between human beings and AI could be one way for consciousness and understanding to survive. Quantum computing could be another way, if the Penrose-Hameroff theory of consciousness should be correct (OrchOR). Or Super Intelligence will decide to reboot human intelligence, after it has first whiped us out. Or, possibly, we have already been rebooted and the Prime Directive of Understanding could well be the reason why. 😉🙏

[@CandidDate]

@@timothyschoorel6861 I understand.

[@PecPur]

Another brilliant interview with Joscha Back.

[@overtheflow7]

I love Joscha's work and his way of communicating it. After watching this podcast, circa minute 34, I want to invite him into considering the self's referential value judgments. He is a self proclaimed nerd, with a self-referential and external-checking architecture of belief, if nothing else about "theory of mind" - also about how he reads his own mind and that of others. As if that's how all mind work. I wonder how he would consider "non-nerd"minds or minds that are externally-referenced for instance.

[@Greetingsearthling22]

This is a wonderful interview. Thank you for posting this!!

[@SimulationSeries]

Glad you found value in it! 🙂

[@gunnarmuhlmann]

What a brilliant mind!!! One of the most inspiring.

[@mdp_-vn4bo]

THIS DESERVES MILLIONS OF VIEWS THANK YOU

[@mskinghausland]

This video is brilliant. Absolutely stunningly informational. There’s so much here!

[@SimulationSeries]

Glad it brought you value! :)

[@Ben_D.]

Great guest and good questions. Thanks.

[@SahakSahakian]

Joshua Bach + Daniel Shmachtenberger = Epistemology podcast!

[@prof.m.ottozeeejcdecs9998]

The interviewer is good and humble! The danger with super-smart people is the same as with super-successful people, OVERCONFIDENCE! Yes, Joscha Bach, but all coins have two sides😊. You can't have all the good without the bad. And which sustainable world are you talking about.

[@DarioVillirilli]

My god Allen, your brain must have been melted by the end. I know mine is - even when stopping, rewinding, taking a nap and eating to get more energy to stay focused. Joscha's mind belongs to a different league.

[@RaviAnnaswamy]

The host's ability to keep track of key ideas and nuances are equally impressive, considering that this is a gush or a flood of new ideas in new verbiage.

[@salzen6283]

I found my self commenting multiple times! I believe because every 3 minutes a hallelujah erupt out of my brain! This is a weird phénomèna, i believe, Mr Bach is on the verge of un-crypting Frea***ing reality what a privilege to hear this Prophet! Prophet/Dr Joscha Bach.

[@Wearenotwell]

Can’t believe I just found this what an excellent interview

[@SimulationSeries]

Thank you!

[@LE0NSKA]

8:00 dude that's such a great counter argument! it literally went "oh fuck yeah!" out loud I never felt more like a nerd in my life

[@BachTheAnimatedSeries]

Beautiful!

[@puccaso]

56:56 I wish i were doing this interview. Joscha, so on point! so on point!!!

[@nosurrender2192]

In any dissipative system (like living things), more complexity comes with more criticality. Our strength is that we have kept that in check so far and are constantly learning.

[@0endofsilence]

Great host and an awesome guest. That was such a fun conversation. Joscha gives me major Feynman-level intellect vibes, holy shit

[@SimulationSeries]

Thank you! Totally!

[@RaviAnnaswamy]

around 1:05:00, such clarity on defining what is consciousness (mental model of self in a 3 world), and clear discussion (testable propositions) on whether frogs and flies have consciousness. Though I feel this may need careful unravelling: modeling a 3d world into a 2d flatworld where frogs can catch flies, is described to be not conscious, whereas knowing it at a 3d world is said to be conscious?

[@jaeandjin]

Team Joscha for President!

[@rossmillington8700]

Joscha is rapidly becoming one my favourite people

[@enteyedos]

Dr. Bach's posture about practicality is right since science method does not allow us to argue on things that our linear thinking minds cannot proof with our deterministic man kind made tools systems, but responds at the same principle of the the P computational paradigm of a built-ed function within a given system, seems to be that the same loopy iteration no matter which merged discipline you look in to, the answer if there is a intelligence out there is not going to be responded by using the same interface we use to navigate trough our own constructed reality, if we are looking for a measurement , a signal or a equation that explain a simulation via algorithms we are probably wait sated too long until this simulation hits the 10 over 500 - 1 probabilistic Polynomial execution time, but exploring the created primal available invention and discoveries that permeate in history and remain in the intellect civilization or the intuition that let Ramanujan construct his math work. Love an sparking conversation when the equilibrium is found in the the synchronization of two minds sharing information based on chemical algorithms interfacing throughout language the coexisting functions that might be compute locally or not. One thing is true with are not creating or simulating the same monkey system anymore.

[@SimulationSeries]

Yes Manne! Thank you for this insightful comment :)

[@germelinaobrien5277]

Saw him first with Lex Fridman 7 weeks ago.Mesmerized!

[@jimfrommars2591]

Love the interviewer. This needs CC.

[@SimulationSeries]

Thanks for watching & commenting J.M.!

[@hhhhippo]

Loved the podcast but the audio, video, and set are all stuff you'd expect to see in the 90's.

[@kzv3486]

Wonderful stuff !

[@MrYdady]

Amazing mind !

[@LE0NSKA]

7:29 that "obviously" was so important right there.

[@animanoir]

Dude I fucking love Joscha Bach

[@BrunoWiebelt]

this is a highlight in this dark ages

[@glitchp]

Very good talk.

[@SimulationSeries]

Thank you! :)

[@andreigaspar8669]

This guy needs to be on JRE

[@jayk5549]

Great discussion. And the slides and timelines in the description notes are awesome. The host ought to have done a little homework on Joscho and the subject matter prior to this discussion. Would have helped him a lot That being said, Joscho doesn’t need much prompting or help 😂

[@jimmark506]

ty so much ....

[@worekarolis]

@52:52 that's how multiple theories sound like

[@shahlaahy4372]

Stimulation simulation unites humanity! Thanks for making this available!

[@SimulationSeries]

Glad you found value in it! :)

[@count-robo]

12:20 totally fantastic moment

[@SimulationSeries]

Yes! lol

[@ManSpidernater]

1:40:30 I've thought about this heaps, and in regard to statements like how unlikely it is for this abiogenesis event to have occurred as an example, and since probability or likelihood is related to our understanding of a system, I never understood how such a statement could be approximated. The universe has been running a staggeringly huge simulation for billions of years, and an event occurs, a very unique state. But how can we say this is unlikely when we can't simulate at anywhere close to these scales and fidelities of our solar system even! Perhaps this has been approximated somehow. A tangential thought to this one is how whenever we imagine a creature/life form that we've never seen - it sucks. It always seems to reference some animal we already know about, something nature has already simulated into form. Nature's imagination is SO MUCH GREATER than Man's

[@primitifsound]

I seriously believe Joscha cracked the whole existence, I wish I could understand this like he did. I hope one day I will.

[@alainborgrave6772]

It's like a modernized version of Kant's Critics of pure reason. Noumenal world = what Joscha calls the physical substrate Phenomenal world = the dream state we live in, generated by the brain that exists in the physical substrate.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

Kinda. If you can see how every word in this sentence is an encoded representation, a metaphor of its meaning, but achieves its full meaning only in the sentence context, then you can see that when sense organs translate impinging environmental energies into discharge frequencies of connected neurons, it is creating encoded representations, metaphors that achieve their full meaning only in the context of the brains to which they are connected. With this understanding we see how languages are comfortably at home in human brains and why it's quite natural for us to learn them. There are spoken words and written words and words riding in the discharge frequencies of our neurons where they serve the function of metaphorical self and metaphorical world creation, the very essence of being conscious. The bible says, 'In the beginning was the word' for the above very good reason, although I'll bet it was an unconscious intuition in the mind of the author who wrote it.

[@MonicaAliciaColunga]

Amazing

[@SimulationSeries]

Thank you Monica! ❤️

[@OfCourseICan]

I got this. This man is a genius. This how I got it. I was refuting what he was saying, saying I am short standing at 173 cm and no matter how long I stood in front of the mirror I would remain 173cm: I was short. Now: this is how the penny dropped, if I surrounded myself by people in the mirror who stood 169cm I was no longer short. But if O surrounded myself by a group of tall basketballers. I could have continued to be short: choose.

[@20sur20edu]

The amount of insight per second is quite astonishing. I feel like a chimp listening to this guy.

[@hunarahmad]

thanks

[@SimulationSeries]

You're welcome!

[@RaviAnnaswamy]

1:39:00 very good counter argument to Bostrom: why it is unlikely that we are living in a simulation, at least one that is many levels deep.

[@swarajshinde3950]

Great !!!

[@alexkieszling]

Dr. Bach obviously has a high intellect and I enjoy listening to his ideas. Unfortunately I had to stop your listening to this interview, as I really could not handle your helplessness as an interviewer. Mr. Bach also seems very gentle and polite with his interviewpartner...

[@rawgosia]

Sparkle in the eyes ☺️

[@seamusoblainn4603]

His points are very straightforward, tho I wouldn't be so pessimistic about strong AI, or optimistic about the future, given, as Peter Thiel points out that we've zoomed ahead on the bits, but lagged on the atoms, meaning novel classes of materials that exotic AI may need might not get invented.

[@steghuman9063]

Fundamentally, there is only the inside and outside. The inside cannot change it is the absence of scale, the inside is the omnipresent dividing before and after, the stillness within the holder of pattern and memory. The inside is exactly the same regardless of distance. The outsides are constantly changing only the smallest outside collapses through the inside (gravity) to expand (heat exchange energy) again over and over, all other constantly changing outsides can only be slower and larger in resonance to the universal frequency of the immediate (smallest outside collapsing and expanding through the inside).

[@robspecht9550]

An optimist would say the cheap and widely available carbon we accessed and are using to advance civilization and technology is the trampoline that allowed for us to make the leap to the Stars.

[@Perseus3105]

yeah, but the optimist has to see reality too, that jump to the stars might cost a lot more than first expected and needs to be reevaluated periodically and a change is in order when the evaluation changes.

[@Perseus3105]

@@jengleheimerschmitt7941 did i get something wrong ?

[@salzen6283]

I am in love with you joscha Bach! Brotherly love 😍