Sincerity: Hollywood's Forgotten Currency | Asmongold Reacts

[@GreatDeadGod]

Its not that LOTR didn't have humor, obviously it but unlike modern Hollywood it didn't make fun of itself. The world was serious, dangerous. The emotions were real and people acted in accordance with their beliefs.

[@grilledIeeks6514]

Well said! The humor was brought out when tensions settled down a little or before things were about to get dangerous. They had placement. (In my opinion)

[@BuffPomsky]

"My axe is embedded in his nervous system!!!!" Lotr will always remain the best trilogy for me....marvel movies always have a one-liner in every scene it's tiring

[@FallenPears]

Yeah, the funny parts were because funny shit was happening in the world. It wasn't a wink and a nudge to the audience. It was humour played straight, characters joking with each other, not some sort of meta humour by the writers flirting with the fourth wall.

[@fafafafafafa6879]

That still only counts as one!

[@LawfulBased]

LotR was made for real people. Most that comes out now is made for consumers with fake lives full of anxiety for anything genuine.

[@thecozykinoshow]

thanks for reacting to my video man! this was fascinating to watch. you make good points, as does your comment section.

[@TheEmzBemz]

Great video!

[@sunb5738]

It was a very good video man ! Kinda eye opening in some ways !

[@Ralathar44]

Yeah I don't think you're completely off base, but I think you've become too cynical where you've started to assume malice instead of incompetence or derision/contempt instead of failed attempts to entertain. There certainly are writers who look down on their audience, but most are honestly trying to make something enjoyable. Even those who's vision is severely clouded by their agenda. And alot of this cynicism just comes with age. You've seen alot of movies now so you'll see things coming that you didn't 10-20 years ago. I think in the long term you'll just adjust to liking what is good and not liking what is not, appreciating fresh things when they happen but not expecting things to be fresh. Neither expecting traditional writing tropes nor subversive ones.

[@Ralathar44]

and i want to be clear, alot of the things you mentioned ARE problems with modern movies, but its a skill issue not a tool issue. The subversions themselves, the breaking the 4th wall, etc is not bad. Their execution and overuse of it is. And they are not appropriate tools for EVERY movie at all. But, as well, it also sounds like you're having a bit of a skill issue yourself. It sounds like you've forgotten how to properly let yourself enjoy movies, getting a little too high on your own critques and feeling of movie knowledge mastery to where you've unknowingly given up movie watching skills you use to have. Being able to step back, put up a barrier of suspension of disbelief, and just enjoy a movie for what it is instead of expecting each movie to reach the pinnacles of what you've seen in some aspect. That's not to excuse any of their flaws and failings. But its a balance right? Between understanding and knowing movies now and how they do what they do....and getting out of your own way. And lets say you screw up and give a movie a little too much leeway, what's the worst that's gonna happen? you'll enjoy a movie you'd otherwise take yourself out of. This is also important for me to do in my own life as video game QA. If I get too involved picking a game apart I can rob myself of the ability to enjoy a game. So I just don't. I've learned to put up that barrier between my "imma enjoy this" brain and my "im gonna look at this objectively" brain.

[@KillingDemons]

I'll be honest, the average viewer of movies doesn't really care about what you mostly said. Movies have gotten worse over the years but the last couple years especially. This is nothing new in cinema and even the greatest directors have admitted it.

[@Zack-pm2tu]

Vader is so powerful that he can humiliate a black female character in a modern Disney story.

[@BigFatSoul]

OOMPHHHHHH

[@МихаилРадулов-й4т]

Only cuz he was in all black suit. Disney tryed to show us Ashoka beating white boy Anakin like that would ever happen

[@TechnoMinarchist]

Still an incredibly meh scene tbh.

[@AdamTuxTengler]

@@МихаилРадулов-й4т She went through proper Jedi training and she was his apprentice, so she knew him and his fighting style well. She should have better chance at beating him, than Luke ever did, logically speaking :D.

[@jacobdurham7219]

Twice !! 😂

[@Lukeor]

The exception became the rule. The tough biker ALWAYS ends up being actually wimpy or super nice. There is no stereotype to subvert.

[@ubberJakerz]

That's a really interesting point.

[@JTManual]

We cant stereotype anymore... yet they make new ones all the time

[@lasagnakob9908]

@@JTManual We can't stereotype, unless it's considered virtue signaling by the cathedral, then we can be as disingenuous about a group of people as we want

[@NexusARC]

I clapped like an idiot when Asmongold said Infinity War is an S-Tier movie. Also this isn't to make fun of MCUfans, I genuinely have loved Marvel since I was a child of the 90s, thanks to my father passing on his love of comics and I really did inherit that more than I can possibly explain here.

[@infectious_d]

Usually it's 'nice' attitude wise, unless they're in some hardcore (read: illegal) MC, then it's usually nice or the "you gonna wish we never breathed the same air as one another" types 😅. Most bikers in general are kind tho, especially the non-criminal MC's, they just love ridin' for the pure joy of it (kinda like why any of us do anything hobby-like, etc...).

[@stefanusunicorn7483]

Gimli: "I never thought I'd die fighting side by side with an elf." Legolas: "What about side by side with a friend?" Gimli: "Aye, I could do that."

[@thehoerscorral8565]

Disney rewrite: Gimli: "Never thought I'd die fighting side by side with an elf." Legolas: "Because you're too short to be side to side with anyone?" Gimli: "HAHA" Legolas: "HAHAHA" Audiences (theoretically): "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA"

[@Hauerization]

🥲

[@tuanriccy1026]

@@thehoerscorral8565 this is dystopia scene

[@boohennessy4638]

@@thehoerscorral8565 Galadriel: at least you aren't a CIS white human male Audience - standing ovation Movie ends with Galadriel punching Sauron in the nuts. Credits roll Ja Rules - Kill 'Em All plays After the credits - 5 second scence of Tom Bombadil lighting his pipe

[@Starfire7888]

@@thehoerscorral8565 I think both instances are great.

[@svenssko]

"Subverting expectations" only feels authentic when a film has the viewer hypnotized by what's happening in-frame, then jumping to a realistic outcome within the bounds of the viewer's knowledge of the story world. Loki goes into a monologue and the viewer temporarily forgets the Hulk is a literal giant monster standing only a few feet away. The swordsman leads us to believe we're in for an action-packed melee fight, until we're reminded that Indiana Jones carries a revolver.

[@whytho1690]

I still find it funny that the gun was ad-libbed because it was too hot that day and he was sick IIRC

[@MemoristCed]

Both moments were absolutely in line with what you'd expect from the characters in the moment, so it was consistent in-universe. The audience reaction is more "Oh, yeah, that makes sense, haha!" than "Wait, what?"

[@SigmarWarhammer]

I think a great example of this is the first scene in the force awakens, when Kylo Ren gets introduced. At first everything about him looked badass: his voice, his appearance and the way he speaks. His very first action is killing an old men, who looked important and catching a blaster shot in mid-air just by using the Force. I thought to myself at the time “Holy shit, even Darth Vader couldn't do that, this is really badass!"...and then out of nowhere the guy who fired up the shot, Poe Dameron starts making fun of Kylo Ren in a Marvel like way. It destroys all the seriousness, all the flow of the previous scene and turns the movie into a comedy show. Why should we take the villain Kylo Ren seriously as a threat when every character is constantly making fun of him at every opportunity?

[@skibidi.G]

Expectation status: subverted ! 😮

[@spacejunk2186]

The part that kills it is that Kylo just takes it.

[@MrJpc1234]

I did hear that the original concept for Kylo Ren was to start himself off as a bratty darth vader wannabe (i.e. with the tantrums and everything) and that he would grow into a menacing figure through the story arc but well that plan got dropped

[@SkellyHertz]

There's a similar trend in animation and some live action: presenting one or more decently likeable characters and brutally killing them in a way that's supposed to be "edgy and subversive". Goblin Slayer did that, Overlord does that, Attack on Titan does that, even Elfen Lied. We get it. Their worlds are dangerous, but it's such a turn off. I can't look at any character now without the underlying anxiety of whether should I care about this character when it's possible that a random truck or boulder or monster will splatter them, like "haha we caught you caring!" Showing me 5 minutes of a somewhat interesting character has not earned the pathos that gruesome fate would elicit had the character been more developed, like in Berserk's Eclipse scene. Screw that crap, if you're going to slap me in the face when I've barely started paying attention, your show is not worth my attention.

[@helloenemy]

@@MrJpc1234man you can really tell that gave a LOT of love and care to their new Star Wars trilogy! No outline, separate directors, somehow Palpatine comes back for ONE whole film! What an epic trilogy

[@edwinvoncarstein]

"Bratty" is such a good word to describe a lot of modern writting. 35year olds writting stuff like they are trying to win the argument they had with their parents 15 20 years ago

[@npcimknot958]

The problem is.. these are nepo silver spoon ‘babies’ they didn’t get their with skill.. its all activist.. When the writer back then was the poor guy writing sending his script everywhere hoping to land a job.. they would fear for their job be grateful when they get it.. vs now you have peope threatening teh studios 😂 that entitlement destroyed hollywood.

[@merrylderrickson3147]

great metaphor

[@amarissimus29]

If you dislike uber-cynical, self hating and nihilistic writing, you've chosen the wrong profile picture.

[@christianalanwilson434]

Yep. And a lot of people can't relate to sincerity anymore because everything about their lives is insincere, from their behavior to their belief system.

[@shaunnormandy]

I've taken to calling that specific phenomenon "Dear Society" writing. It refers to a type of social media post you see all the time, especially on Facebook and Twitter, that goes something like "Dear, society, [act this way because I said so];" or, "Stop doing [insert random thing that peeved the author that day];" or, "Normalize [insert thing that absolutely should not be normalized]." It's as if the people in charge of writing shows were told they couldn't use social media anymore, so instead of yelling at the world in posts like the above, they work their inane shower arguments into the media they're producing. Main characters in superhero shows dressing down random civilians for being sexist, loftily explaining to obvious stand-ins the errors of their ways while tilting their heads up, Paul Rudd calling a barista stupid for saying "venti is large;" these kinds of things, disconnected as they often are from the story or character arcs, make a lot more sense if you think about them from the perspective of a seething writer. They also make the viewing experience even worse than it was at face-value, because now you're thinking about that stupid, childish writer instead of theorizing how the scene could possibly contribute to the narrative or cinematography.

[@RELAXcowboy]

Fun Fact. Harrison Ford came up with the Gun shot scene because he was unable to perform the drawn-out fight that was planned due to him developing Dysentery. In the end, the scene worked for the character, and they used it.

[@saryakan]

LOTR is playful not smug. It's comedic relief moments don't take away from the sincerity, they actually complement it.

[@caleb-glennmarcus6887]

THIS! It's wholesome humour, not crass, out of place, and forced! Even the drinking scene with Gimli and Legolas; it distinguishes and stays true to their personalities so well!

[@dreamerlotus]

Agreed, the 'nobody tosses a dwarf' followed by 'don't tell the elf' are a good poke of fun at the characters. It wasn't a comedy, it was serious and yet it reminded us that even in times of darkness there can be light hearted moments.

[@Escorducarla]

@@dreamerlotus Indeed. It also serves to remind us of what's at stake. Should they fail, that warmth, the happiness, the small moments enjoying one another's company, all of those will be lost.

[@jmanjman2685]

To me it seems like people are afraid of actually being sincere because they are afraid of being called cringe.

[@redcenturion88]

Physically recoiling from serious moments makes me physically recoil

[@Lukeor]

It's making a bad joke so no one can say it wasn't funny.

[@benjaminclark6786]

If you're sincere and someone criticizes your storytelling, you have to think about why that is. If they don't get your joke it's their fault.

[@ivolol]

Can't get laughed at for trying if you insert a quip to make it clear you weren't actually trying from the start!

[@paulpesci1]

​@@benjaminclark6786 The audience has been brainwashed into not respecting sincerity, especially in comic book movies. This is a huge shame for me because I was looking forward to epic comic movies since the 90's. The fact that Deadpool & Wolverine had more sincerity and heart than most "serious" comic movies these days is just... Sad.

[@Zaroth66]

Nah the Incredibles one was actually top-tier because it's truly showcasing the experience of a veteran superhero against a newer villain. Getting the villain monologueing is a skill and survival trait in a universe where powers and grand schemes are real.

[@drchabbage]

He also started as a fan boy, that was his back story. It completely makes since for that character to say something meta. He studied heroes and villains as a kid he would obviously know the tricks. That was a really bad example imo 😂

[@catbert7]

Yup. Incredibles is dope 💪

[@bluemutt9964]

Syndrome is S tier that's why it's on his chest

[@lesterparker1594]

Still not giving Disney my money. Even if Deadpool is a good movie. I’m done supporting companies that hate me

[@whenpigsfly8178]

Or voting for politicians that use my kind of person as a punching bag at any point in time, which rules out the blue.

[@_xotik7425]

Fr its about time I start voting with my god damn wallet for once

[@AQS521]

I'm with you. How many times do these mega corporations need to flat out tell us they hate white people and men before we stop taking it?

[@Rebelnutt]

Exactly

[@eldasd.4631]

I going to pirate Deadpool 3 😎

[@Sakinukas]

Speaking of CGI, Ironman 1 and 2 had greatest CGI when he was putting on suit. The detail was insane.

[@moffant4916]

I'm guessing they started rushing them to pay them less and quality just went out the window.

[@alirezaeftekhary9980]

ironman suit coming together part by part in the early movies is so much more badass than just a magical armor appearing from nowhere

[@themindakviking]

Wanna talk about CGI? The first scene of Optimus Prime transforming in the first Transformers movie, where we got a long, sweeping 360° shot of him, all of his parts shifting, spinning, moving, rearranging, as he stand up from his vehicle form. That scene was absolutely insane. Now we have shit like She-Hulk.

[@avyam7509]

​@@themindakviking First Transformer was so good.

[@Carlos.Rivera]

Transformers 2 was peak CGI

[@johno-o9l]

One reason Pacific Rim worked so well. It took itself seriously. The comedy relief characters were not in on the joke, they didn't try to make jokes. They were just acting like slightly nutty scientists. Who took themselves seriously.

[@denenterpriesesorwhatsleft6386]

That and the fact that uprising tried to be like Transformers too much despite not having the director for it

[@MemoristCed]

Their drift flashbacks give context for why they are how they are, and I appreciate that enormously. Most movies wouldn't bother showing us any of that.

[@AsteroidJesus]

39:34 It is fair to say Rings of Power is awful. They spent a BILLION dollars…to make their own VERSION of LOTR. They even had a Tolkien historian and fired the guy. Told everyone they were doing their own thing. The hubris to think your thing would be better than one of the greatest fantasy writers of all time…

[@DR-fc1ey]

i disagree, i loved rings of power it was alot of fun to watch, you just need to let go of your expectations and enjoy things for what they are.

[@chopthatpanda]

@@DR-fc1ey well i disagree with you, rings of power was unwashed dogsack for 95% of its runtime

[@vaylox09]

​@DR-fc1ey what a sad way of seeing things. The franchise had an expectation it's like going to a burger place and they sell tacos instead.

[@kopicat2429]

@@vaylox09 Why is that sad? If anything, it's the opposite. He got enjoyment out if it, which is it's entire purpose for existing. I envy those that could find enjoyment in the Rings of Power as well as Wheel of Time. I found both to be dogshit. But I really would have loved to love it.

[@Nyet-Zdyes]

@@kopicat2429 It's the subversion of something else. They should created something new, instead of ruining something that already exists.

[@PurplePaperPrius]

Lord of the Rings truly was peak cinima. No forced romances or s3x scenes, no awkward forced humor or forced diversity. It had strong female characters without them taking away from the male characters. It didn't try to spread social justice messaging. It had strong men. I mean com'on, Aragorn is literally peak masculinity. It had incredible acting and a great script. And most of all, no horrible CGI. I don't think anything will ever top or even come close to LOTR.

[@npcimknot958]

When you have a great script adaptation and every single worker down to the person making chainmail for like 3 years in a room.. is sincere and passionate.. Yup.

[@justacomment123]

Modern writers think "strong female character' means the literal interpretation only and give us token, androgenous, girl bosses. They don't even realize we've always had strong female characters in storytelling. The "I am no man" scene was great back then. Nowadays it's so overdone it'd catch an eye roll at best. 🤣

[@nielsdejong]

Yup, Lord of the rings is amazing! The hobbit sadly did adept the awkward romance with the ginger haired OC elf girl Tauriel, and it did have forced diversity by making some of the characters in Lake-Town black or asian. Fortunately, it seems like they all got burned away as you never see them again after that scene, but it was still glaring. Yes, it was a merchant city, but it was still in the north of a European continent, so all it did was remove immersion. However, aside from that, the movie was still great, and the dwarf scenes (looking at all the extended content) were amazing!

[@LustyLichKing]

"But what was Gandalf's sexuality? Modern audiences want to know."

[@username.exenotfound2943]

@@justacomment123 even then that scene should have had one of the hobbits(cant rememeber who) who stabbed him which allowed her to stab him in the face as he was a spirit type thing so once he was stabbed he became "physical"

[@paulipeltola2789]

It was Joss Whedon who came up with this style. In Buffy it was still fresh and cool, but the coming generations only took the cheap irony and couldn't deliver the honesty that made us be invested in everyone in the show.

[@NicholasBrakespear]

Yup, very much so. Joss Whedon has issues by the sound of it, but there's no denying - he made it work, back then. Buffy, Angel (until the later seasons), Firefly and Serenity, Dollhouse... they were all very good at combining quips and fast-talking dialogue with actual sincerity and depth.

[@MijoShrek]

Exccuse my monologuing,but have to give credit where its deserved. Amongst his contemporaries. He has been known within the industry's go-to who was actually top tier 'script doctor.' Greatest example is he was brought in for Toy Story, and is given credit for what it was and taking things to the apex,on to what makes that movie a classic. This is documented and can be found on stuff about his career. The more he established himself and was given reign as the show runner. Fox gave a favored script doctor, back the rights to Buffy. If he came back round to them to make some money makers and punch up an unknown number of scripts. He went often uncredited. The 2D animated movies after earth was one he gave them, it bombed, you can't tell what's gonna hit or miss. Luc lesson, had sought him for punching up the action and humor in fith element. A signature of his well known doctoring fingerprints. Often uncredited.

[@Jetsetradio]

Joss Whedon and J.J. Abrams Between the two, their sense of humor and direction have utterly destroyed the landscape of entertainment

[@RohannvanRensburg]

100%. Look at a show like Firefly, there's plenty of humour and cynicism but it's always underscored by sincerity and humanity.

[@d112cons]

On the note of LOTR, the Hobbits are comical, but they aren't a joke. They are warm and silly at times, but they're honest and respected characters will silly traits. They're not jokes themselves. They're always being respected as characters.

[@JerichoDeath]

I always thought they should have filmed the The Scouring of the Shire. The actual battle that took place in the Shire after the Ring was destroyed. I know that it would have been oddly placed in a movie given the climax of the film already happened, but I wanted to see Mary and Pippin lead a Hobbit-Only force in combat.

[@belegur8108]

@@JerichoDeath would have made a great spinoff short film...

[@BunjiKugashira42]

@@JerichoDeath I think it could've been done. It could've worked in a movie with the right setup and mindset. Who says the climax always has to be the last thing to happen in a movie? Who even decides that saving the world is the climax and saving the Shire isn't? We usually tend to care a lot more about the things that are close to us than those that happen far away. People spare no resources to try and find a lost child in their village, but wouldn't spend a dollar on saving children starving on another continent. When someone is murdered in your neighbourhood it's a tragedy and a shock, but casualties in a far off war are just numbers. I think the scouring of the Shire could've been the real emotional climax. Alas the three movies are long enough even without all the content that didn't make it. While I and many fans would've loved to have every single detail from the books on screen, I think just the length alone would've turned away many people. In the end Jackson hit a good balance and thus reached a wider audience.

[@mamaya311]

The difference is comedy in movies used to take place within the context of the story, because writers used to care about things like world consistency and character motivations. The comedy would come from a more natural and authentic place that fit the narrative, which is why older movies a lot of times don't feel as dated. Nowadays, comedy in movies has shifted to always having to be a comment on the real world or whatever unsubtle point the writers are trying to force across, which breaks the immersion and dates the movie. I truly believe there will be very few films made in the post-2020 era (maybe even before) that will be considered timeless classics further down the road, which is such a travesty to movie lovers.

[@Nyet-Zdyes]

IMO, ego is a *huge* part of the problem... pun intended. A lot of these writers *think* that they ought to be writing the next Hamlet, War and Peace, Pride and Prejudice... and that is what they *want* to be doing... BUT... they need a paycheck... so they write scripts that they do *not want* to be writing. They write them grudgingly... bitterly... and probably with no small amount of animosity for the intended audience. When they use the word "subvert" (to ruin), that is exactly what they mean. The "irony" is that they are just mid-level hacks at best.

[@CatsOverdrive]

Reminds me of the Abrahams and Zucker works. It's quite a feat in retrospect, to watch actors treat the situation as an ordinary, not-totally-ridiculous thing. To not give them the respite of going "hehe, yeah, this is stupid", abruptly stopping a gag. Most of the time, they just ran away with it and see how far they could push the stupidity of it, straight-faced, and on a long shot. Which really showcases the actors' skill, the writers' creativity, and the director's ability to tie it all together. And without the constant joke accentuation or point outs, they could get away with so many little visual gags or wordplay. It took me a third watch on one of their series to notice that, the name on the door window is written in reverse, on the outside, meaning it can only be read properly inside the guy's office, which totally defeats the purpose, yet you're so used to that background detail "working as it should" that you never noticed it.

[@jeremymullens7167]

George R.R. Martin didn’t like writing scripts. More because he couldn’t tell the stories he wanted due to budget constraints. His solution was to quit. He’s talented though so made a career as a novelist. There’s a lot you can’t do as as a screenwriter and the best writers either get the big budgets or leave.

[@matteomastrodomenico1231]

I honestly don't get what you're talking about. I don't remember any modern movie having this kind of humor.

[@nga88nguyen]

Yeah, I remember watching Spiderverse (the sequel) last year and thinking this movie gonna be so cringe 5 years later. Even though the animation was absolutedly stunning.

[@FuryOfCalderon]

I liked most of Thor Ragnarok, but the scene after the destruction of Asgard on the ship where Waititi just couldn't help himself but throw in one more dumb joke, in the most serious and tragic moment of the movie, made me never rewatch it again.

[@denenterpriesesorwhatsleft6386]

Yup Ragnarok aged poorly overtime as well I re-watch it sometime after it came out and it felt bland af to me sure it still had the high joyful directing and pacing but the humor just didn't hold up mainly due to the timing and quantity

[@nga88nguyen]

I cant take that movie seriously at all. Would walk out if not being with friends. It like watching a youtube comedy video on loops.

[@Edmund_Mallory_Hardgrove]

It's not fair to put Deadpool in this. Deadpool is and has always been a dark-comedy and it's schtick has always been breaking the 4th wall going back to the comics. Deadpool made fun of the superhero genre, and that's what made it so great. But once ALL Marvel movies started doing it, it destroyed it.

[@Bluelightzero]

I don't think they are saying insincerity is bad, just overused. I think parody is the perfect place for insincerity.

[@tapout928]

I think the guy is mostly right but he's picking a lot of bad examples.

[@Jorsk3n]

yup, that's like Deadpool's entire schtick... without it, we'd gotten another shitty character like in Wolverine: Origins...

[@DR-fc1ey]

@@Bluelightzero its not overused, lmao, just stop watching movies with that, its super fucking easy

[@andreasfinn1476]

The only real criticism this video had towards Deadpool was its attempt to bring some emotional beats to it which didn't fit the character or the story at all.

[@Felipe_AC]

People think that Loki scene is just a funny gag, but disregard the fact that it made total sense character-wise. Loki's strength as a vilan relies on the fact that he's a manipulator. His talk-no-jutsu is really strong, so monologues are part of the course. That's why in that moment, people were expecting him to talk his way out of the situation. The opposite goes for Hulk. He doesn't talk as much, in fact he just says "Hulk Smash" and that's it. So if a weak vilan starts talking shit to him, the number one action that he'd take is beat the fuck out of him. The whole scene makes total sense! The problem with modern writing, is that they disregard the characters in order to achieve a peculiar scene, which is completely backwards. They expect the audiences to clap and cheer, but we're not that dumb. We can see when a character behaves outside of his usual self, and that's upsetting to the viewers. That's the issue!

[@danbuckig4564]

The funniest part of that scene for me was Hulk actually stopping long enough to let Loki start his monologue.

[@JDoe-gf5oz]

No not my heckin Avengers!

[@HeroicCid]

Agreed. One of the things that made the Avengers scene great was that, yes, the Hulk interrupted Loki’s monologue, subverting the trope, but in another sense the Hulk rag-dolling Loki was COMPLETELY appropriate and in character, what you would expect to happen if the Hulk ever physically got his hands on Loki. The problem with so many “subverting audience expectations” moments, including almost all of the ones from The Last Jedi, was that they require massively out-of-character actions to bring off.

[@10thletter40]

I completely agree but I'll add more to your point. Too many movies are doing this and they all do it. Nothing is taken seriously so I expect the joke, the same joke, or a joke along the same lines. It isnt funny anymore for me

[@SSJ_Derp]

The Indiana Jones scene is the same thing, it exists both as comic relief and to tell the audience something about the character. In Indy’s case you immediately know that he’s irreverent, quick-witted, and not easily intimidated, so the scene has an actual purpose. Generally the reason this kind of scene feels out of place in a modern movie is because it doesn’t serve the story - either it’s not telling us anything we didn’t already know (like Marvel going back to the well again and again with Hulk interrupting someone by throwing them around) or the character is deviating from how they were previously established (like Luke tossing his lightsaber over his shoulder).

[@augmenautus]

I think one of the reasons Dune and Dune 2 did so well is that people wanted a serious sci fi story, and they delivered.

[@rockstardma9112]

In real time, one can see the difference of these two story telling styles: the first four seasons of GoT vs the last four seasons of GoT. The first four seasons almost never had jokes for the sake of a joke… they had well written humor. The final four… well… I drink and I know things 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@PrinceLobo-es8kl]

factz

[@aggrocd1985]

Why are you talking about Game of Thrones? We are discussing Lord of the Rings and Deadpool

[@mrjack901]

@@aggrocd1985 Because Lord of the Rings and Deadpool werent the only Movies/TVSeries used as a example in the video, and Asmon brought up GoT. You would know if you had watched the video.

[@FlyingT20]

@@aggrocd1985 It is a section in the video and highlights the theme well. That and Fast and Furious you can see the makers taking themselves seriously before they do not

[@IncognitoActivado]

True.

[@nukiesduke6868]

Marvel had a really, really, REALLY bad habit throwing in a joke after or in the middle of a serious scene completely ruining it in the process.

[@ChiefGore429]

Unlike fight club or a movie from then. Pulp fiction. They let the serious parts weigh. And let the funny parts be funny. Seamlessly

[@npcimknot958]

And it’s become so predictable.

[@XmonstermanX]

“That only counts as one!” Everyone in whole theater laughs

[@atillathehungry3145]

R2D2 and C3PO were more of the comic relief in Star Wars than Chewy.

[@V4Now]

Chewy and Han where comic relief due to their relationship. The banter and chemestry between them is great.

[@genadiyrool]

It's Chewie, Chewy was his always hungry cousin

[@justinamerican8200]

The Hulk-Loki example is also a poor as a "bad idea" because it's not only still funny, but also because it's organic. The Hulk isn't breaking Loki's monolog for meta reasons, he's breaking Loki's flow because that's what Hulk would do. He's a rage monster. The ultimate barbarian; he doesn't have time or patience for Loki's bullshit.

[@Highstar25]

I wouldn't say the video is painting that scene as a 'bad idea', but as a clever version of this trope that make sense in the context of the characters involved that was done BEFORE it became overused in media and still had the element of surprise. In comparison, many modern versions of the trope don't make sense in context or for the character UNLESS the character is somehow aware that they are an actor who is playing for an audience.

[@denenterpriesesorwhatsleft6386]

It's the example of it becoming popular as Avengers was huge at that time not that it was a bad idea

[@PixelatedSpirit]

Lotr was the perfect mix of practical effects and cgi. After that, everyone started cutting corners with cgi.

[@braddl9442]

Yup I can honestly say, MOVIES and SHOWS today are way worse then they used to be. I grew up with my dad watching old 50s and 60s movies, my sisters watching 80s and 90s stuff, me watching 2000s stuff. And about 2010....everything got WORSE. And I think it was about that time all the OLD directors and writers all started to leave and retire.

[@CoroArmado]

Same with gaming. Innovators left, shareholders came in, etc., etc.

[@promethiac2641]

Probably because everything repeats ad nauseum as if we can't find any other way to live. Who is breaking the cycle? Who is just a whiner?

[@LSG101097]

Nah, the best shows were in 2010s. It's the peak TV with GoT, Breaking Bad and a lot of cool netflix stuff before they became what they are now. And of course a lot of cool brithish shows back then.

[@Harinjo916]

Succession, Better Call Saul, Chernobyl, Mindhunter, Breaking Bad, BCS with Chernobyl trump any other show before or after ​@@LSG101097

[@Maybeabandaid9]

@@LSG101097 Breaking Bad released in 2008.

[@pacman1187]

14:30 Hollywood nowadays cannot tolerate such masculinity anymore.

[@promethiac2641]

Watch Fight Club... that is masculinity. Men have enough enablers.

[@aggrocd1985]

​@@promethiac2641 that is a 25-year-old movie. Anymore means now

[@aggrocd1985]

Then don't watch them. Only watch the masculinity ones.

[@promethiac2641]

@aggrocd1985 It explains why masculinity was going to crap out on itself. No proving grounds. Masculinity had it's time... it's called war.

[@TickleThatMonkey]

Masculinity isn't killing someone because of some words. People think they know what masculinity is while being completely blind to it. It's an immature idea of masculinity. Do that and you're in prison in the present. Let go of your ideas of it they're based off TV and movies.

[@mercoro]

Thing is, Deadpool is still good because it is supposed to be ironic and goofy all the time, the problem with Disney is that they want to apply this logic to every single film they make now, the only people who still get hyped for Marvel stuff are man childs redditors who are into that stuff, cause it already is saturated.

[@ferggill9461]

Movies today are written by people who never lived through hardship, don't have the capability to think critically and are offended by wind if it blows in the wrong direction.

[@Nakata2021]

Actually the problem aren't the writers, it's the CEO's. You can see by the amount of retakes they make. Like the new Blade movie. It was redone 5 times because of higher up orders and the end result was "we want Blade to die so his daughter can become the new Blade".

[@promethiac2641]

@@ferggill9461 Watch independent films? I mean... does everything need to be a culture battle? It's just movies.

[@V4Now]

Also self impressed with few to no accomplishments.

[@redcenturion88]

​@@Nakata2021welp that kills my desire to watch it

[@no.1spidey-fan182]

​@@Nakata2021 its BOTH. Horrible writers and clueless CEOS who dont know want fans want. Suits have ALWAYS been out of touch with the masses hence why they do market research or at least DID💀 I mean the original draft of that Blade movie sounded AWFUL. Who WOULDNT want that crap thrown out!?😭

[@DaDudeb]

To be fair, Star Wars became Space Balls the Moment Kathleen Kennedy took over.

[@johnnyfatsacks5209]

Don't insult spaceballs like that.

[@brak1296]

Spaceballs was good.

[@ari_california-ffx]

Space Balls is actually funny though. Star Wars is just cringe like when they had Luke drinking the alien milk.

[@nicknevco215]

Finn should have been jedi

[@Kavou]

Soy Wars.

[@boomknight1015]

24:00 that is super cool, because it hypes up the villain and doesn't undermine how actually scary they are. It's ok to have an extremely powerful Villain

[@petrri323]

I think the main problem is what I've started to call, "The Avengers Effect." It's the seemingly omnipresent feeling you get from big blockbusters nowadays, that all they wanted was for the movie to *feel* like the Avengers. Every studio is chasing that high. It's cool the first time around, because it's a subversion of expectations. Super hero films before then were often more gritty and serious. Compare the Avengers to the original Batman movies, or even to the early Marvel films (Iron Man I sticks out specifically). It's clear that super hero movies didn't always need to be written like comedies. The Avengers was probably the first "super hero comedy" (self aware writing, lots of comedic relief, movie doesn't take itself seriously, "lighthearted") to hit it big. There's a clear tonal shift in ALL super hero movies after the Avengers came out. (And they hit the Mach 1 accelerator on this after Thor: Ragnarok came out) Now EVERY super hero movie follows this formula, and it's expanded to encompass ALL action/adventure flicks, not just super heroes. Compare the early entries in Indiana Jones to the more recent films. Compare the original Star Wars trilogy to the sequel trilogy. Compare the LotR trilogy to the Rings of Power TV series. The overall tone has clearly shifted. I also think another major factor is the lack of practical effects in movies nowadays. So much of what we actually see on screen is CGI now, that the whole movie looks weirdly sterilized and homogenized. The moonrise is usually just as bright and vibrant as the sunset before it. It's just as easy to see during the night as the day. Every scene is so bright and vibrant, that the whole movie looks monotone (again even at night -- think Northern Lights or Milky Way in the sky type scenes). Everything is just so idealized now. Yeah it's pretty, but It's unrealistic. Syndrome said it best as always, "when everyone is super, no one will be." If every scene in your movie looks like a masterpiece painting from the Renaissance, none of them are going to stand out for looking good. Sure the CGI has higher fidelity, but the fact that ALL of the effects are CGI means that it starts to access the Uncanny Valley. I KNOW that it's *just* CGI. My brain KNOWS it's all fake subconsciously, so everything seems to have less weight to it, or it seems "off." The CGI doesn't immerse me more, in fact, overuse of CGI makes me start to imagine the actors standing in the big green room playing pretend. I know that without the CGI, this movie is a fancy table read. The practical effects of the original Star Wars trilogy, for me, are FAR more immersive and lifelike than any amount of CGI from the sequel trilogy. It's like these movies are just a way to show off new visual technology now, not use it to better immerse the audience into a compelling story. Sure modern movies look pretty, but it's all just a surface level facade. "OOOOO..... AAAAAHHHHH....." is the only emotion big studios know how to evoke anymore. If I just wanted to go, "OOO... and AAAHHH..." I can go outside on a sunny day and look up, I don't need to pay $30 for a movie ticket for that.

[@Dylanzohos]

Very well said m8

[@GoldenTV3]

I truly think we're going to see a renaissance in Hollywood in the coming years. Lord of the Rings era - Lower CGI capability (compared to now) | Great story, directing, cast Marvel era - High CGI capability, Great cameras (compared to before) | Bad story, directing, cast We have the CGI and the improvements in film making. Once the cultural shift goes back to taking things sincerely, we are going to a resurgence I think never seen before.

[@ethanwilliams1880]

That will only happen if bigger cultural issues are defeated. Currently things are on a path to get worse, with politics the main driving force behind our cultural degradation. You may have to wait 20 years or more for that moment, and by then, Hollywood with be eclipsed by the cinema of other nations. Already South Korea is becoming very popular, Bollywood is gradually becoming not total garbage, and other nations are trying their hand at exporting their own entertainment.

[@Starfire7888]

I mean, to me, all of this seems like its just nature taking its course. Fads come and go, change, evolve, so does culture which help shape films in their respective eras. Is it bad directing, story/casting, maybe for some of them (Twilight Series *cough*, Avatar the last airbender *cough*), however I think some movies in this day and age are still good, maybe not great.

[@Starfire7888]

@@ethanwilliams1880 I think that is a good thing though, competition is good. I find South Korea culture tend to have overly dramatized moments. If other countries make better/great movies, that just benefits us the consumers.

[@nickmajora]

One annoying related thing is that movies are doing dialogue like they're plays where the characters talk to the audience. It's not _quite_ breaking the 4th wall but you know it's not something the characters would say in that situation if they weren't being watched.

[@Morganator06]

The difference is, Modern entertainment is making a characters entire personality revolve around being comedic relief. That's their personality. Merry, Pippin, and Gimli all had their own unique personalities, that JUST SO HAPPENED to allow them to have moments of comedic relief

[@deepzone31]

They were also young and stupid. This behavior matches that age at the outset. Over the three stories they lose that and become young "men".

[@matteomastrodomenico1231]

That's not really true though. Most comedic relief characters were still just comedic relief.

[@GeneralSpecific]

There's a huge difference between characters making jokes or poking fun at things and the movie itself giving you a wink and a nod. A movie that takes itself seriously can easily have characters that are simply humorous and nothing deeper. A movie that doesn't take itself seriously wants desperately to convey to the audience that the writers/directors/producers know that this is all cringe and they're in on the joke. It reminds me of how teenagers think they're too cool to do "embarrassing" things. But to every adult, the cringe thing is thinking or acting like you're too cool to do something. It was cool when we were teenagers, but as adults, we're over it. There are people who are cool as adults, and we admire them for it. Even so, if we all acted like that, we'd hate interacting with everyone around us for fear of being found to be "not cool". The "teenagehood" of movies has come and gone. Throw away this whole "wink and nod" thing, where every movie needs a character who lampshades every weighty scene, where no emotional tension can be allowed, where the audience cannot be allowed to feel without the movie assigning a character to play the role of the snarky voice in our heads. I can do that myself, and I can turn it off myself. I don't need the movie to do it for me.

[@Mag_ladroth]

I remember in 8th grade my English teacher gave us the hardest assignment we had ever gotten. It wasn't anything that required much thought or knowledge or even hard work. The task was simple, he wanted us to pick a partner and sit down in front of the class and give each other genuine complements. For mature adults who take themselves seriously and understand their friends this would have been an easy task, but we were a bunch of teenagers who were too cool for that. It was eye opening to see how two guys who had known each other for over 5-6 years struggle to give each other genuine complements. It taught me that we had a lot more growing up to do and I think the writers of modern movies are sort of like what we were back then, they struggle to take anything seriously because they think sincerity is "cringe".

[@victormy8897]

There is a very simple explanation why Infinity Wars or Winter Soldier felt so distinct from over Marvell's movies: we knew for sure, that there are some real STAKES. There will be consequences. That even if "good guys" will win, they'll definetly lose something. And it's worked perfectly.

[@jerryfromtheblock6463]

Cinemasins type criticism contributed a lot to this dynamic because ppl started nitpicking certain expected plot lines saying movies are bad, stupid or less sophisticated if they use 'tropes'. but often narrative plotlines feel expected because they make sense and are satisfying. often thats where the sincerity is. To write something subversive and self-aware ('smarter' in the broken cinemasins brain), that doesnt just subvert but still connects on a human level and concludes satisfyingly, you need to be way better at writing than what they employ in hollywood rn

[@IncognitoActivado]

Bad excuses are bad, dude.

[@MerlinTheCommenter]

@@IncognitoActivadohe’s just pointing out the obvious. Try to re-read posts or ask a friend since your comprehension is so low it’s subterranean.

[@IncognitoActivado]

@@MerlinTheCommenter Try again, dude.

[@mattandrews2594]

There's nothing good about hearing "you better come take a look at this" for the 300th time, or watching characters attend the Prometheus School of Running Away from Things. CinemaSins has every point to point these bad tropes out and make fun of them. Writers can and should be more original.

[@RealBadGaming52]

Your right, now i critique films even more becasue of Cinama sins , and wathcing films critisizimf it as i go, and also he teivulaises films to

[@lamename2010]

The problem is not that jokes exist, like in the older movies. The problem, as described by the video guy itself, is that it is about trying to subvert your viewer expectations and constantly having the actors practically wink at the camera. It is a self-awareness, that goes and takes the joke out of the frame of the setting and into the real world. That is also what the keyword in the title "Sincerity" refers to. Sincerity to the source material, sincerity to the setting, sincerity to the story itself. These subversive jokes aren't sincere to the story. While older jokes are. Take the example of the sword fight ending with the gun being drawn. It fits the setting. It fits the story. It fits the "lore". It is broken tension, but it is framed within the story and is just a wink at the audience. So stop trying to equate the two asmon.

[@dekulruno]

I think the more meta joke is when they dramatic zoom in on the German officers hand and he’s assembling what seems like some kind of torture device only for it to be revealed as a weird little clothes hanger.

[@IncognitoActivado]

True.

[@kopicat2429]

No. The problem is simple. It got old. That's it. It got old and we got bored. Just like how the serious movies back in the day got old and we got bored. We ate that self awareness up like it was ice cream. And we loved it. Because it was new and fresh. And we were finally rid of that overly serious shit. We can invent all sorts of reasons for why and how. But the real reason is just that. We are bored and want something fresh. The only reason content creators make it so damn complicated is because they need to justify making an entire video about it.

[@battlecruiserna]

it comes down to respecting the rules of the environment you have established. The reason the hulk scene was so well received is because that was a very hulk like thing to do.

[@trollingisasport]

Dialogue really does suck nowadays. Just fake real life conversations that are laid on so thick.

[@AbraCaStabra]

And completely sanitized of most real language.

[@MeanLaQueefa]

Dune and Andor had some solid dialogue

[@DR-fc1ey]

wrong, just certain movies lmao

[@kopicat2429]

Yes. They suck today. And they sucked back then too. And we had some really good movies with great dialogue back then. And we got some good movies with great dialogue today as well.

[@trollingisasport]

@@DR-fc1ey lmao

[@philfedora495]

CGI quality deteriorated because they gave the effects people too much to do and not enough time to do it. Older films had fewer minutes of CGI effects than they do now. So they have to do far more in the same amount of time. If they gave the effects workshops the time or manpower the needed we'd see good quality CGI again.

[@Killer_Turnip]

I'm fine with CGI in small amounts, quality over quantity. But nowadays it feels like I'm just watching an entire CGI movie, and it sucks all the charm/life out of the experience makings things bland. Sure part of that is due to bad CGI, but nothing feels "real" and it ruins my immersion completely. Like would Jaws have been as scary with a CGI shark and boat? In my mind, no.

[@Me-th3gj]

With the tools to incorporate CGI even easier into a scene, you'd think it would've improved. What I see, is lack of passion for creating something good these days, while wanting to pump a movie out for as much money as possible, while spending as little as possible to establish a movie's world. When everything is CGI and created in a green room, there's nothing unique.

[@DR-fc1ey]

no, ai is making CGI easier and better than ever before, the technology just needs to develop more

[@DMGJP]

No, the reality is that it was too expensive

[@npcimknot958]

This and also splitting the responsibility to 100 studios.. that ws basically the end of relaly really good cgi.. also they had TIME ( like you said ) for actual rendering and stuff.. technology has gotten ridiculously good now BUT.. Not animation… thats why you do see like more reliance on motion capture vs old movies so many were hand animated.. and then rendered.. liek when a team is allowed ample time they can created amazing things.. ( same with why fx now aren’t as good as well.. because no time. Too many diferent studios working on one thing)

[@Ghoster311]

We’ve gone from having comedic relief to having sincerity relief. The first one works really well. The second only works in comedies. Not movies with serious stories.

[@Giffandy5329]

I think the key is that modern movies focus on "Four Quadrant" marketability. Peter Jackson's LOTR is a cinematic masterpiece, it's super serious, it's got war, it's got romance, it's got deep interpersonal relationships that form and are tested over and over again on the journey, and it's got gratuitous violence. It hits four quadrant appeal by striking a very delicate balance. Most productions can't replicate that success because the character writing sucks. So how do they hit 4 quadrants? Add quippy comedy. .

[@windflare1637]

I just hate how (most) today's movies/shows are god damn clean from sets to clothes and faces. The Power of the Rings and avatar shows are prime example of this.

[@RealBadGaming52]

Thats a good point actually, don’t get gritty films anymore and if y do its usually “how bad racisim was” type film

[@Grumbo-]

I would just like to point out that this video has TWICE the amount of views that the original has and the original has been out for 10 days. If you want to actually support the people that make videos like this, you should consider watching it from the source instead of through react content like this.

[@cob-codeofbrawl7668]

Let this sink in, Pacific Rim, the CGI masterpiece, came out 11 years ago

[@npcimknot958]

Also you have to remember.. those also had fewer graphic houses working on the movie.. top of the CROP cgi vfx spfx teams.. Go look at predator, aliens, jurrasic park.. stan Winston.. adi, etc.. those were TOP special effect houses.. you had top artist.. no dei.. predator scultper was chinese.. other work, white, black, gay, straight.. it didn’t’ matter.. it was reAL talent.. you can only get in these fields with real talent. They had the top people. Now we have better materials and tehcniques but the talent is no where near because no one is trying to be creative.. and when there is creativity is where costs gets cut because people found better ways to do things, innovation.. we don’t’ really have much now. And cgi has really hit a wall because rendering is so good now.. etc.. but what is still missing is not enough time. Not enough focus if studios are working on 10 projects at once.. you get she hulk..

[@xenochrist15]

The Cal Kestis one really highlights the idea that the writers believe that the audience is too stupid to infer from the previous sequence that the menacing black figure appearing behind the Inquisitor, breathing heavily is supposed to be big trouble. One of the spoken standards of good writing is showing, not telling, yet here they show and they tell, which immediately reduces the quality of the moment.

[@Aquageo555]

On the flip side, there was no indicator Darth Vader was going to be in the game beforehand, so it creates a moment of "oh shit, we are screwed" most people I saw reactions to knew who was standing behind the inquisitor and knew that she wasn't walking away.

[@DR-fc1ey]

no i 100% disagree, that moment was one of my favourite moments in gaming, it was amazing, as the other guy said there was absolutely no indication darth vader was going to be in the game and it was such a ridiculously powerful character in starwars and to come across him we all knew we were fucked and had to run and there was nothing we could do but hope to survive. if they didnt show vader it would have been so anti climactic and just plain boring and wouldn't make sense, just because you think you have an elevated opinion doesnt make your opinion good or correct.

[@xenochrist15]

@@DR-fc1eyyou need some reading comprehension. The Cal and other lady dialogue right as Vader appeared was telling us, the players, that you need to be afraid of this guy, instead of just allowing the players to use their brains to infer that this giant black monster who just sliced the other bad guy in two is scary. It was wholly unnecessary dialogue and took everyone out of the moment.

[@Aquageo555]

@DR-fc1ey that being said, though, i do agree it would be better without the characters talking and spelling it out.

[@jeremyfecteau5924]

Honestly, a simpler hissed explicative or even "Vader..." would have fit better. Something small but powerful to show how bad the situation was.

[@darrenmills3943]

The comic relief in Lord of the Rings always furthers the plot, develops characters or deepens the worldbuilding. Gimli being thrown at Helm's Deep shows that he is willing to put aside his pride and trust Aragorn. The second breakfast scene shows the luxury and comfort hobbits are used to, and the competence of Aragorn as he is already prepared to feed them. The comedy never pulls you away from the action, never breaks immersion

[@AndrewClunn]

I have seen the 4th wall broken without losing sincerity: The Never Ending Story

[@spiegeltn]

Childhood favorite. They snuck in Star Wars characters in that one Fantasia scene... clever.

[@LalaDepala_00]

A classic

[@rakantopinibl5736]

It was so well-done I believed it for a week 😅

[@Jetsetradio]

They look like big strong hands, don't they?

[@Gltdoors]

I'm worried we were missing the point of this. He wasn't saying that there were no self-aware, irreverent movies before Joss Whedon and Marvel, just like he wasn't saying that there were no earnest movies being made today. He was just saying that it wasn't always the norm like it is today. He's also saying that because of the success of Whedon's movies and pre-"Endgame" Marvel, everyone in Hollywood feels they need to follow the same formula in an effort to replicate their success. I'd never thought of it like he has. Really an insightful KZbin essay.

[@ChiefGore429]

There were plenty of serious, dark movies that had a lot of funny parts in them back in the day. Fight club, snatch, pulp fiction, boondock saints, reservoir dogs.

[@jeremyfecteau5924]

Self awareness in movies was a thing in the 80s and 90s. Copying trends has been a thing long before any of us was alive. Trying to say that the Avengers franchise was a turning point for all of that is ridiculous. It's less about self awareness being a thing and more about the quality of the films in whole being lower despite the fact that the technology behind them is better. Sadly, I think the improvement of technology has impacted films negatively since filmmakers have leaned more on computers instead of technique.

[@npcimknot958]

@@ChiefGore429definelty humour wasn’t used as a cynical way back then.. but to break tension.. etc.. like how we do in real life.. humour is a way to cope. Which is why it felt. More sincere.. cause it’s human.. and just writing was so much better because it wasn’t digital.. and money budgets were tight. Every frame and second counts.. no one was gettin 100 mil like that. Also there wasn’t a hate for audience. Now it seems hollywood just hates poor pepole.. the audience is so stupid.. we have to tell them.. so tis jsut rich beyond rich people in that world they’re so detached from the real world Those examples you gave.. were written by peopel who weren’t “ rich “ quinten was working class he saw how real people talked 😂 and he praises and doesn’t disrespect the past movies and film makers which makes sens cause he was a film buff.. he had a love for story telling. Now its just love for money from teh studios

[@ChiefGore429]

@npcimknot958 I agree with all that. One thing... what did you mean by "writing was better because it wasn't digital?"

[@SmugAlana]

Love to see Asmon being so passionate about LOTR and then apologizing for pausing :') great video

[@furrymessiah]

I saw The Two Towers four times in the theater. In forty years of life, it's the only room I've ever done that for. And I'd go see it again if they put it back in the cinema.

[@NeoN-PeoN]

You're trying to compare humor that is a joke borne of IN-WORLD, BELIEVABLE OCCURRENCES, with the Millennial "LoL - SO RANDOM" style of humor. Millennial humor always starts with a "what if this instead of that" question. It's the same humor you get when you hang out with a group of 14 year olds. "Bro, what if, instead of X, they did Y instead!" "What if Luke Skywalker through his beloved light sabre away as though he didn't want it? - LoL" The Hulk getting fed up with Loki and smashing the crap out of him is IN-WORLD BELIEVABLE. The visually story telling of how low-IQ Hobbits are is IN-WORLD BELIEVABLE. That Indiana Jones bit you show. THAT'S NOT SLAPSTICK! IT'S NOT BREAKING THE FOURTH WALL. IT'S A BELIEVABLE ACTION THAT HAPPENS TO BE FUNNY.

[@Ebb0Productions]

Doesn't matter if the joke is in world believable or not if it ruins the tension. There's also timing. And how often you do it. You could totally ruin the LOTR movies by spamming believable comic relief moments.

[@SYMBIOTEDINOSAUR]

I think the lol wow thing is more of a generation z phenomenon then millennials. That's not me being defensive as I am generation z depending on the chart I guess I've seen a couple that say that 99 is millennial but I basically went to school and grew up with generation z

[@leningradecdin]

I hate this 'Millennial humor' nonsense, have you seen 'The Naked Gun', 'Space balls' and etc? They did the exact same thing, always over the top, always something random. And those movies were made in 1980s~. Shit even Ace Ventura was pretty close to that, but w/o 4th wall jokes or nods, but it definitely was random AF at times. This shit didn't start with 'Millennials'.

[@no.1spidey-fan182]

​@@SYMBIOTEDINOSAUR That's millenial. Gen Z'ers were still children for the most part when this type of humor took off. Not to mention...Deadpool is an ADULT movie so theres NO WAY they were catering to Gen Z'ers💀. That's Gen X and Millenials humor cause they would he the newer gen of directors coming up as the boomers retired

[@sutirk]

It's not a generational thing. The difference is that thos shit used to happen in COMEDY movies. That was expected of it. Most satire movies don't actually have a coherent plot or stakes or shit like that, and that's okay. But now big blockbusters are shoving too much comedic moments in whats supposed to be a serious action/adventure movie, and it just breaks whatever tone the movie was trying to create, making people uninvested. That spaceship/iron bit is the exact kind of joke you'd see in an Austin power, or liam Neeson or monty python movie. A joke only for the audience, only possible through the magic of framing and film editing.

[@Jinsei24]

Maybe this is weird for someone who doesn't know the series but this is exactly what I love about Kingdom Hearts. It is such a bizarre concept where Disney and Square Enix comes together, but in universe you feel that everything is sincere and authentic. Reminded me a lot of the topic of the video.

[@jeffkeim5865]

Ryan Reynolds in real life is Deadpool, he's made millions being himself in every role.

[@nickf2657]

He's annoying at this point

[@Users_rx]

He always plays himself even in 'just friends'. He makes a good standup if he's not tall and good looking (i personally dont think he is)

[@npcimknot958]

@@nickf2657but he is sincere

[@elunegracee]

RDJ is the same

[@todd8398]

Ryan Reynolds is basically the same persona in all his movies, it was less so in earlier parts but you first start to see it in Blade Trinity, it seems unescapable now. For a while it seemed like movies were trying to cast him as "male lead char" because he is pretty good looking and physically fit but he's always been a comedic/character actor, so Deadpool actually fits him perfectly. I think the Amityville remake is the only time I've seen him play a absolute straight/serious role. As for "always playing the same kind of character," he's far from the only actor like this.

[@mrgtmodernretrogamingtech6891]

I feel bad for the younger generation for having a current media that mostly trash... And feel glad at the same time that they have A TON OF GREAT LIBRARY FROM THE PAST!

[@npcimknot958]

Not really becuase they have access to everything.. i think it’s amazing.. there are tons of people that don’t watch anything new.. “ some don’t’ have cable’ can’t afford subscriptions etc.. but movies.. even through pirate.. you can watch almost anything you want.. there are tons of movies on free services as well.. I don’t feel bad.. i do feel bad for those that are forced to follow the trends to ‘ fit’ in’ but then again, i don’t fit in and i never was interested in trends.. so i can’t really relate. But there are tons of peopel watching old stuff. It’s even a trend on KZbin to watch and react to old stuff lol

[@AprilZN-DokutahSuzuki]

I call Deadpool "sincerely ironic"

[@Thiniking]

Best part about that scene of Indiana Jones is because Harrison Ford had dysentery and George Lucas wanted to move on as quickly as possible from..this scene and he made history in doing so.

[@neondystopian]

They can't afford to be sincere. To be authentic, you must pick a side, and once you do that, you will inevitably lose customers in the hyperpolarized environment.

[@promethiac2641]

... that is exploited by KZbinrs lol

[@Gennosuke1983]

The younger writers are not able to be serious or convey some emotion or have the viewer invested in the story. So if they constantly crack cringe jokes then it means they didn't actually try to be serious, so they didn't fail at writing, they didn't fail to captivate and immerse the audience, because they didn't try in the first place. It's better for them to be cringe up front instead of trying to write a good, serious story that turns out cringe due to their lack of writing skills

[@ComicGladiator]

Except choosing one side loses you 50k viewers with no money, and the other side loses you millions of paying viewers. And they constantly choose, the side of the 50k.

[@truthorpropaganda9001]

1970's. Star Wars, Jaws, Alien, Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind, The God Father.....and these are just off the top of my head.

[@AsteroidJesus]

11:27 I think he’s saying we’re becoming completely desensitized to this type of filming because it’s so overdone. When everything is meant to subvert your expectations, nothing does after a while.

[@wiserthanyesterday8025]

Darth jar jar. He was the true sith, masquerading as an imbecile. If you rewatch the movies with that in mind, you will see that jar jar is responsible for basically everything that happened.

[@yig_501]

That crazy episode of CW where jar jar being the exact opposite of clumsy XD

[@Nyet-Zdyes]

Jar Jar was George Lucas inserting his advertisement for ILM.

[@Azmania3000]

​@@Nyet-Zdyesnah it was Lucas try to swim without Jim Henson, rip.

[@bigleeneth]

​@@Azmania3000 George Lucas stole a lot of his ideas from another story and put it in space during a time when people were mesmerized by space. In that story a seemingly drunken fool was actually in control of the world and pull the strings. That is who jar jar was supposed to be.

[@tobiaswedin]

It seems as if the humor part went straight over Asmon's head. He didn't claim there was no humour in LoTR, he was suprised by the lack of the self referential type. The meta humor everything has today.

[@mantasr]

2:00 looks it's Jake Skywalker.

[@journeysmt4484]

Indy 3 had excellent humor, and surprises along the way ( the papers scene, and the umbrella/bird/airplane scene is what comes it mind). But it knew when to be sincere when the scene called for it. You felt the high stakes when Indy Snr. gets shot. Or when the villain poetically dies because of his own hubris. It was also a great way to finish off the series btw.

[@andersj91]

LEVITY. Brevity is describing something being brief in nature...

[@DannyDraftz]

This was driving me nuts the whole time! Thank you for pointing it out.

[@jamphire_]

If anyone thinks breaking the fourth wall is something that was invented by the movies, they clearly don't know the meaning and the origin of the term 'fourth wall breaking'. You guys need to read more books, especially theater history.

[@CHIM3RA.]

Yeah the kid is clearly still just a kid.

[@revelation031]

Or pick up a comic book. Byrne’s She-Hulk and Deadpool, both, broke the fourth wall in their books.

[@mvprime8]

I don't remember him claiming in the video it was invented by movies.

[@jamphire_]

@@revelation031 Yeah, but the philosophy of breaking the fourth wall comes from theater, especially Brechtian theater. Breaking the invisible wall between the audience and the actors helps them engage in a different form of catharsis, one that was rooted in history. At the time, it wasn’t something to be coy about-it was deeper.

[@RealMomar27]

22:39 That was the best part of the entire show, Showing how op and merciless Darth Vader is. Too bad a lightsaber in the guts dont kill anymore.

[@DimWit000]

there’s a group of trans women superheroes that can decide if they want to be ex-men or trans-formers.

[@promethiac2641]

Right wingers give the LGBQT a reason to exist.

[@alexdenton1174]

​@@promethiac2641Say that again but think this time. What do you think that implies? They have zero reason to live? lmaooo

[@xXHashassinXx]

Ha ha ha. I see what ya did there

[@promethiac2641]

@alexdenton1174 I meant the political group... they wouldn't exist if right wingers didn't think they own the country and play gatekeeper.

[@promethiac2641]

@alexdenton1174 Your entire worldview came straight out of the social hierarchy that forms in high school.

[@alejandromerlo4708]

Saw LOTR as a kid like 50+ times each. Wish I could watch those movies like the first time.

[@Carribla]

Ive been saying a lot of this stuff for a while (the stuff in the guys video) but the biggest one is asmon mentioning that scene at the end of fallen order. I love that scene, i love hearing vaders breathing and footsteps, the fear on the sisters face, the atmosphere of it all. But theres always that one part that i hated the moment i first saw it while playing. The stupid 'that doesn't look good" This is a minor example of what movies do, and yet it hurts the fallen order scene so much because the bigger the importance and suspense the scene has, the more impact something like that does. Another good example is shang chi. That movie could have been great, kung fu based and cool choreography. But for some reason they just had to have awful jokes throughout suspenseful fight scenes and mcu cgi to ruin the mood. Cant have a guy fight another guy on a run away bus without some fat guy commenting about it while recording. Oh and the bad guy just HAS to have a cgi blade for an arm🤦

[@lapislazuli6136]

That darth vader moment where he yeeted that guy actually make me choke laughing

[@V4Now]

Believe it or not, that was a woman.😬

[@DanilegoPlays]

LMAO that's funny but it's played serious. I'm surprised modern Star Wars hasn't ruined Vader yet, seems he's the only serious character that exists

[@V4Now]

@@DanilegoPlays let's be honest, Palpatine was hilarious, even in his very first and brief appearance before the Memes.

[@fauzanabdulkahfi957]

​@@V4NowNo he supposed to be satan cackling in your head i don't get your point before the meme is this

[@Gillsing]

@DanilegoPlays "NOOOOOOOO!"

[@fredericdms]

As an older person, I never really liked the "dwarf" jokes in LOTR. They broke the immersion for me. I read the book when I was 12 and took them seriously. The "dwarf" jokes were very connected to the time the movies were made and reflected these "dwarf tossing" contests that were happening back then. I wished LOTR had been taking itself even more seriously.

[@logosys5015]

Or Legolas skating on shield... bit silly.

[@ComicGladiator]

Thank you. The LOTR movies are impressive, but some of the humor is Peter Jackson not being to control himself.

[@Airlinecuisine]

there were definately movies back then that were like "hey this is a movie" but they did it in a better way, a big exmaple of this is Monty Python and the holy grail. that movie is extremely 4th wall breaking but it still holds up and will make u laugh at rewatch.

[@vagabond7601]

Lord of the rings trilogy is the movie series that my adhd ass actually sat for the entirety of the movies watch time.

[@CoffeeBrainzz]

6:54 The way he kept describing how he was waiting for the punch line that never came made me think SPECIFICALLY of Guardians Of The Galaxy movies!! Those are like the epitome of this generations writing style. (The successful movies anyway 🤣)

[@siriusgaming3981]

But I think that is why the third movie was so good was because it went for sincerity

[@IshtarNike]

I'd kind of disagree actually. I think they came out of the gate being funny. What's more telling is how the avengers, in particular Thor went from being 90% serious in phase 1 to being 80% comedy in phase 2 where almost everyone is the funny guy. Before it was just Tony and maybe one other person making regular jokes. But by the end of it almost everyone was a "funny" character now. That's much more jarring and significant than the guardians movies because they were always whacky, mostly for the kids, kind of stuff.

[@Corrupt-R]

I know season 8 of GoT was rushed and all that, but it's still my all time favorite show and it's not even close. It reminds me of the Mass Effect trilogy a lot, a disappointing ending after all you'd been through, but it doesn't take away from the brilliance of the journey. Watching GoT again, even knowing the outcome, I love every minute of it

[@NotMorganFreeman.]

10:46 Still painful today that John Snow's prophecy was thrown to the wayside when he should have fought the night king and become king, and then mighty night king was killed by some little girl. Then again, season 8 was a huge pos. But I digress.

[@Nyet-Zdyes]

It's become all about subverting or replacing the male hero. In GoT... Jon gets rescued by Dani... Jon gets rescued by Sansa at the BotB... Arya makes Jon redundant... meaningless. Cersei, contrary to the prophecy, gets done in by a rockfall... making Jaime's story arc pointless. Sansa becomes Queen of the North... and Bran, the "wheelchair user"... becomes King of the 6 realms. Jon fridges his lover... and gets banished.

[@NotMorganFreeman.]

@@Nyet-Zdyes How utterly depressing.

[@perlundgren7797]

I'm no fan of the latter half of the series, but just going with the obvious prophecy playing out as expected also wouldn't have been true to the spirit of GoT. If we ever get an ending by GRRM, I very much doubt we'll see Jon as king.

[@rakantopinibl5736]

They killed the pay off

[@Nyet-Zdyes]

@@perlundgren7797 First, I seriously doubt GRRM will ever finish the series. Second, yes, there is probably some kind of twist with the prophecy... being filled in some strange way.

[@winterrobot9605]

I guess Asmon needs to learn to differentiate "brevity" from "levity."

[@drake9634]

Yeah, he keeps using that word like he doesn't know the meaning of

[@SolidShepard]

my favorite GoT scene Tormund: they think your some kind of god. man, raised from the dead. Jon: I'm no god. Tormund: I know...I saw your cawk. lol

[@RealBadGaming52]

Thats funny

[@aspookyscaryskeleton1474]

This video was basically just 50% Asmon arguing against what he thought the guy was saying instead of what he was actually saying.

[@ZeroBankaiKing]

The ending credits alone for Deadpool and Wolverine paid respect to Fox and that's what we as the audience want respect!

[@Nakata2021]

In the theater I was the guy on my side started to cry during the end credits

[@V4Now]

Exactly, Ryan respected the audience by giving people what they wanted and at least appreciating even the failed attempts of the past.

[@hylianchriss]

He's not saying LOTR doesn't have humor or jokes. It doesn't have the "Marvel formula" sarcastic quips, the meta irony, the fourth wall breaking, the "turning Thor into the butt of every joke in his own movie". That's completely different. Indiana Jones has humor, but not sarcastic meta quips. The Mummy is a more lighthearted adventure with more funny moments, but it's still not the same thing. Jokes aren't bad, this new Deadpool/MCU meta style of humor is bad. Having every sincere moment interrupted by a character doing something silly.

[@MrWhiteKniight]

I want more GoT Red Wedding moments. Oberyn vs the Mountain moments. Where the credits start rolling and you just stare at the screen in disbelief.

[@FanSeitz]

0:38 The first Avengers movie is the best MCU movie.

[@TheMusicolophile]

I wholeheartedly agree. It was so well done that I actually wept tears of joy at one point while watching. But it was downhill from there. And, honestly, I think it was because they chose not to focus on the mature elements of the original books and instead doubled down on the irreverent childishness.

[@FanSeitz]

@@TheMusicolophile It was the best theater experience I ever had. The pacing was great and everything clicked. The MCU should have ended with Endgame.

[@curiousardor]

Every time he says "brevity" instead of "levity," my soul dies a little.

[@NeoN-PeoN]

Good jokes are believable. It does not threaten your suspension of disbelief to see a good joke. Millennial jokes are "VERBAL SLAPSTICK". Or even downright slapstick. Millennials will use a joke even if that character would NEVER DO THAT. It's a joke that ruins your immersion. You don't see the difference in the humor of Chewbacca and that stupid ironing board visual gag? Chewbacca can, and does, beat the shit out of people, and it's believable that, sometimes, that shit's very funny. That visual gag with the ironing board? That is Mel Brooks level SLAPSTICK. Do you see the difference in tone? Chewbacca gets a laugh. The visual gag makes you go "what?"

[@shuriken4852]

I think he meant levity and NOT brevity. 😉

[@JayneAFK]

Tangentially related: Over reliance on green screen, blue screen and other similar forms of fake backgrounds, coupled with whatever weird camera lenses they're using these days, they can look very convincing, but it also creates this closed in fishbowl effect that I find to be uncomfortable and claustrophobic. Old films, even films from like 10 years ago, do not have this problem. Someone who understands how films are created better than I, could you explain this phenomenon? It's super frustrating and it's turning me off from live action Disney movies especially.

[@jamiedetwiler7261]

I love this take. I’m not a film expert but it’s true, we can tell that something just feels different about how things are filmed now. It kinda creates a sterile and safe feel, like everything has a polish. There’s a shot in Fellowship of the Ring where the camera is flowing through the Forrest, moving all the way down from Aragorn to Boromir during the final fight, and a tree branch gets caught on the camera for a brief second. I love that that shot made it in the final film. It reminds me that this film was shot on location by people who spent months choosing these perfect places to film at. I want filmmakers to start doing this again.

[@lucasmenchone2826]

Just remember that a well written story can make you cry even if a character only says Hodor for 6 seasons straight

[@geunglejoose338]

7:13 it never once occurred to me that gimli pledges the weapon that he just broke to the fellowship 😂😂

[@nilloc93]

Gimli, like any good dwarf, carried multiple axes. You cans see it in the moria fight when he throws his single blade axe at the troll and then pulls his double bladed axe from his back.

[@kamayell9078]

Good vid, last 10 seconds actually memorable Can't believe Asmon finally has opinions again I 100% agree with, no bullshit streamer acting, just being a gamer

[@SE-so3rk]

3:25 him bracing himself for something funny to break the tension while watching lotr… that just made me really sad how distorted his mind is…

[@gerard_palace]

I hope he said that in video for the sake of his point

[@SE-so3rk]

@@gerard_palace agreed

[@IvorineDJ]

Not like Hollywood was ever sincere to begin with lmao

[@GabrielBacon]

Watch the old classics. Dead poet's society, forrest gump, etc The only recent one that measures up to those is 1883

[@promethiac2641]

Our society considers honesty a weakness...

[@larsthemartian9554]

True, but they at least pretended to be

[@promethiac2641]

@@GabrielBacon Forest Gump gaslit us lol

[@V4Now]

Director and writers can be, the industry itself never was.