Singers that Play Guitar - Get Extreme Separation of Vocal and Acoustic

[@cbrooks0905]

The algorithm must’ve heard me complaining because this video was suggested to me and right now I’m trying to record some acoustic stuff, and I’ve been having nothing but trouble with comb filtering, resonate frequencies, and weird phase issues like you mentioned. Ironically I’ve owned a matched pair of Royer R10’s for a few years now. I never knew ribbon mics had such crazy null points. So after watching this I set up my R10’s exactly how you have them set here, and it worked like a charm. In the 12 years I’ve been trying to figure out how to capture a vocal and acoustic guitar I’ve only ever dealt with issues and always ended up having to settle for salvaged recordings. This configuration has given me separation and pristine recordings without weird resonance or filtering. I’m frustrated that it took me this long to come across this, but I’m elated I finally have the answer. Thanks so much! You rock!

[@a1guitarmaker]

That's the best separation I have ever heard in a guitar/vocal situation.

[@creativesoundlab]

Thanks!

[@chrisvanek7877]

Dude, I've been trying to figure this one out for a long time. No idea why I didn't think to use ribbons. Amazing isolation. Thanks!

[@JohnHorneGuitar]

Great approach. Interesting that he only had 5 strings on the guitar. Still a nice full sound.

[@rombsix]

You have the eyes of a keen sparrow. :)

[@yaroslavkryvda]

Really love guitar from the first example and also vocals from the first two:) I'm very impressed by this technique, never thought results like this are even possible)

[@bill_simpkins]

Many times I get even more rejection aiming the bottom at the unwanted source, because the extra mic casing, electronics etc... gives a little more barrier. Also this way you can get away with one stand and bar. Also, a stereo ribbon, such as the AEA, you can point the nulls at each source with the mic horizontal to the floor, if you are in tighter situation, such as a small person with big guitar hunched over etc...

[@Martin-kn6vc]

This is really great! Very effective separation between the two sources. The song has a great vocal melody too.

[@musicproject]

the problem is, not every singer/songwriter is a session musician. and most of them tend to sing while leaning and looking down on the guitar to see the fingers or the lyrics on a music stand. which shorten the distance between the two sources....

[@theultimaterockmusicalviet9310]

Amazing separation ….. ! Definitely going to try it out soon. Thanks!!

[@mattarseneault]

A great technique for anyone lucky enough to have 2 ribbon mics.. Thanks for yet another gold nugget

[@creativesoundlab]

Any fig 8 mics. Golden Age R1 is a good ribbon and cheap.

[@hectoriii8603]

This was super helpful. When I was younger I just couldn't isolate either instrument. Great insight! Thanks!!!

[@ns1983za]

I'm so excited to be using this technique on singer songwriters. Just got myself two ribbon mics and tried out this setup and I'm amazed by the great rejection.

[@CraigHlavka]

awesome, I'm curious which ribbon mics you went with?

[@m.i.stapes]

I love the sound of ribbon mics. Just got my first pair, Golden Age Project's active ribbons. Dreaming of a day when I can afford the more expensive ones but pleasantly surprised with these affordable ones. Thanks for the video!

[@madcona]

Blood amazing, I've always had issues with this just using condensers or dynamics and wondered how people get it to sound so good. Thanks Ryan!

[@creativesoundlab]

Thanks! Really cool to hear people excited about the experiments

[@barryzito5721]

Love this. I just tried this with the figure 8 pattern on my 87 and the guitar bleed was significant but I was not close miking the vocal as there was a video component where my face had to be exposed. Going to try close miking the vocal make sure the signal to noise is better.

[@fleshtonegolem]

So that is how they do this! :) Now I need another ribbon mic. Thank you for all you do! I learn something new in every video. Your info is so valuable.

[@creativesoundlab]

Thanks! Yes ribbons are my go-to when possible.

[@stevenbeckman5299]

This is just what I was looking for. The difference is I'm plugging in a hollowbody Gretsch into an audio interface for livestreaming. I've got nice vocal effects on the vocal track, but when the mic picks up the hollowbody... yikes it's horrible. My harmony plugin might sound great with a vocal track, but when it picks up the hollowbody it's just awful. I've been trying all kinds of things with no luck. The closest I've gotten is by doing heavy EQ and then it kind of kills or deadens the vocals. I already have a ribbon mic. I'm going to give it a try for vocals and run my guitar into the audio interface as before. I've been told by people over and over that ribbon mics are for instruments, not vocals. I wouldn't have thought to try this. It would be great if I could eliminate string noise and give me that separation. Thank you for this tutorial!

[@SorenAraujo]

Absolutely love this channel. :) Thank you for all the great lessons, kind sir!

[@pezmoz2835]

Great video Ryan. I would be happy using any of the 3 versions. They all sound great to me. Cheers

[@lebatteurjaune9540]

Position number 3 sound the best in my opinion. Nice tuto!

[@binarymilton]

Old video I know, but I'm getting frustrated trying to use my C414B XLII in figure 8 mode. I get nothing like the amount of separation achieved in this and other videos - and I've now spent many hours experimenting with positions to hit that null sweet spot. Do you (or anyone else reading this post) have any thoughts on whether ribbons are significantly better than condensers when it comes to greater nulls in figure 8?

[@J-DUB-F1]

Really great results !. All these years and I've never tried it with ribbons. Always struggled with the 2 condenser deal, sometimes using a piece of cardboard to isolate. I like version 3 the best overall. I like the isolated gtr of 2 for clarity, but the two mics together had a little honk(combing?) to it that I didn't like. 1 overall was good, but 3 was even better ;-)

[@creativesoundlab]

Interesting yeah I didn't hear the combing but totally possible. Could have been the mid range push in those n22s.

[@J-DUB-F1]

@@creativesoundlab maybe combing was the wrong word?. There was just a bit of a narrow mid honk?. Didn't hear it at all on #3. I gotta try it.....though I rarely get singers that want to do it.

[@samuelnoack1575]

Wish I had known this 3 months ago... Great tip for next time I do this!

[@BarrettSimms]

You have the best content on ribbon mics. Thanks man!

[@iannmiller]

Incredible isolation!

[@battman919]

414 in figure-8 on AC GTR and RE20 on vox is a great pairing too, nice rejection. Although, using those N22 on EVERY session is the wise choice.

[@SOKLEAPMUSIC]

wow, how low is the Gain stage?

[@boxabeatrecordings6309]

Thank you Ryan, great video! KR, Patrick

[@MrKeefelm]

This is the highest level of separation I’ve come across, and this guy is a loud singer too! I’m interested in how much of this down to the ribbon mic vs the figure 8 polar pattern. I have an AT 2050 which will do figure 8 but as a condenser it’s really sensitive to bleed. What makes the ribbon mic so effective?

[@GalenHeffermanMusic]

the null of a ribbon’s figure 8 polar pattern is often more accurate and more complete. a perfect fig 8 pattern is hard to achieve in a dual diaphragm condenser (any switchable large diaphragm condenser. however, it will work, to the degree it does depends on the depth of the nulls at all frequencies. single diaphragm fig 8 small diaphragm condensers also have very good fig 8 patterns. ie sennheisr mkh 30.

[@SufyMusic]

if i have a rode ntr and a nt2-a what should I put on the acoustic vs the vocals?

[@creativesoundlab]

I would do the NTR on acoustic, and the NT2A on vocals. Use Fig8 on the NT2A.

[@catface101]

Can you cancel out the guitar from the vocal mic with phase? I read somewhere that Phil Collins or maybe it was Sting would record in front of studio monitors instead of using headphones and then the playback thru the speakers was canceled out of phase in the mix.

[@JohnHorneGuitar]

Catface interesting...

[@renatoquaresma82]

Probably not because the vocal mic is pretty much just getting the guitar reflected from the wall, but worth a shot anyway. What you read about recording vocals without headphones is true though. But to do that you have to put the microphone centered perfectly between the monitors (and at the exact same distance from each one) use a mono monitor mix and flip the phase on one of the monitors, to get the sound to cancel at the microphone. If you get it right it actually seems like magic. Only really works in dead rooms, and with the mic in cardioid.

[@calebknott8021]

Ryan has a video on this, check out his video about recording vocals without headphones

[@monkeyxx]

hey cool! I have the same guitar.... assuming that's a 114e

[@simonjonas5845]

Wonderful video and a great approach. I use a Rode NTR and am thonking about getting a second figure 8 ribbon mic. Should i just get another NTR or can i get any other brand/model too, so i could add another flavour for single mic use? Subscribed

[@GalenHeffermanMusic]

if you get another ntr you could use them as a stereo pair too

[@stevenotice2918]

Is the amount of bleed small enough to not cause artifacts if you apply pitch correction to the vocal?

[@BwareGamer]

Do you think this would work with any/cheaper ribbons? I don't have the funds to afford N22's ;(

[@creativesoundlab]

Yep sure would

[@azizalami835]

Okay i'm gonna need a ribbon mic... Which affordable/good one would you recommend? Btw who's the artist? he has an amazing voice!

[@spartanmm117]

What's the name of the song?

[@harpreetsinghmoga]

Great Video ❤

[@frankrotthier4392]

now I need a second AEA N22, damn! :D

[@vinylRitchie]

I just bought an AKG P420 that has a figure 8 mode. This should theoretically work the same way as this ribbon mic, right? I did a test, and there was a ton of guitar bleed on the vocal mic. Any ideas?

[@GalenHeffermanMusic]

play with the null. a lot of ldc figure 8 patterns have less than perfect off axis rejection at the nulls. it's due to the fact they are two diaphragms, not one. Ribbons or single diaphragm sdcs will have the deepest nulls. Not all fig 8 patterns are made equal.

[@michaelarthur4764]

Very informative thank you!

[@leofaulhaber5641]

Sounds great.

[@LeonPhythian69]

would then always rerecord the vocal separately to gain further clarity? or would it purely depend upon the performance as a whole? for instance if the performance with both mic whilst playing the guitar at the same time was special would you then simply use this performance?

[@GalenHeffermanMusic]

I don't know about Ryan, but as a songwriter who is also a recording artists, I don't ever try to push artists to do different takes. The playing is often more sterile and clunky when the two are separated. I would use this as is, otherwise no need to go through the trouble of getting such good separation.

[@officialWWM]

Sounds so good. What model mics are those? I'm in the market for a pair for exactly this type of work.

[@creativesoundlab]

These were the AEA N22 ribbon mics. They use phantom power just like a condenser and are designed to be close to a vocalist and guitar.

[@officialWWM]

Creative Sound Lab interesting. I've always avoided ribbons cause I know that one day, I will forget and end up plugging them into a channel with the phantom turned on 😂 would you recommend them for acoustic guitar?

[@GlennISmith]

Man super separation! Just add a very soft gate on the Vox then it effectively 100% clean.

[@creativesoundlab]

That's a great idea! Didn't think of that

[@MonstarMk3]

I swear I seen a video with these guys using a Orange cone on the top mic; to separate the guitar and vocals. But I can't find it anywhere. Anyone know where that video is????

[@creativesoundlab]

Haha yes you are correct. It was a sneak peak of a video that I put at the end of a video. I haven’t released it yet. I will though.

[@BenHayesDesigner]

Those ribbons have a lot less low end than I would expect.

[@leftofcenter4]

Nice trick, I don’t have any ribbon. It’s at the moment though…

[@AlexFrezCorrea]

1 3:17 2 4:02 3 5:11 4

[@projectz975]

thats crazy, ive gotten more bleed from the singer monitoring with cheap headphones!

[@schance1666]

great vid and info!!!

[@creativesoundlab]

Thanks!

[@MrNicknayme]

Wow, that's amazing. Negligible bleed.

[@creativesoundlab]

Thanks!

[@yackohoopy]

Am I seeing this right? Are there only 5 strings on that acoustic? Like, no low E string?

[@kiranevetts7868]

Could be open G tuning like Keith Richards used?

[@creativesoundlab]

Could be. Might have broke a string when we filmed.

[@yackohoopy]

Creative Sound Lab He did a great job covering that up, but I just happened to have caught it. It definitely gives me something to experiment with when it comes to my ribbon mics. I love the sound of them and the high end cut

[@renatoquaresma82]

Really surprising result! What ribbon mic is that?

[@davearooney]

AEA N22

[@jasper_north]

I just want to record my [guitar+singing+video+mixing] No extra beats or anything. Please help me. Thank you.

[@tom-andrethomsen]

You and a 10 million others 😂

[@jasper_north]

LOL!

[@Marcos_Franciosi]

What pre would you recommend for the n22?

[@MelodicDreamers]

AEA RPQ500

[@oldbootband]

love #3!

[@frankrotthier4392]

number 1 for me :)

[@zephallen7363]

But what's he like when he's not around his friends?

[@creativesoundlab]

Don’t even ask...

[@RemcoJvGrevenbroek]

wow that separating is bizarre

[@creativesoundlab]

Yeah ribbons are amazing with the null.

[@Itsallawesome]

you completely failed on showing us how to actually setup the mics which is incredibly frustrating

[@MelodicDreamers]

You can see the mic. Just angle it the same way. What do you need to see, just curious?

[@catarinomedina9557]

sounds incredible via my burls

[@AdamRainStopper]

Another one! I almost never use my ribbons, not on vocals, not on cue sticks, not even on small amps. Why'd he go and say "this is me ..... NO"? No what? It's not really you? Was he telling you to stop doing something distracting? Were you dancing?

[@creativesoundlab]

Haha yes I noticed the "No" as well. I need to make a video about cue sticks.

[@creativesoundlab]

Yeah the other video that came out was not a usual video, and I wanted to treat my subscribers good.

[@sideoutside]

*cringe*