Sir Arnold Robinson (John Nettleton) Gives Advice on increasing wages

[@williamdrijver4141]

The late John Nettleton excelled in his role as Sir Arnold. Perfect casting.

[@johnking5174]

I always loved seeing how Sir Humphrey always dined at the best restaurants and dining rooms in London. Permanent secretaries and the Cabinet Secretary were in fact royalty of the civil service. Yes the service has changed a lot since this was made, but even today there are some in the service who still have the same attitude as Sir Humphrey.

[@CiceroLounge]

I suspect the Permanent secretaries are still almost regarded as royalty in Whitehall circles. :)

[@ds1868]

They are still referred to as 'Whitehall Mandarins'. This expression of the civil service elite is probably rooted in the 19th Century, as explained here: idiomation.wordpress.com/2011/03/18/whitehall-mandarin/

[@CiceroLounge]

Thanks for that ds1868. Very interesting read. I remember reading about where the term 'cowtowing' came from I understand it was the diplomats (maybe from the FOC) who bowed to the emperors of China

[@CiceroLounge]

I would imagine so, but Jeremy Haywood and Gus O Donnel seem a lot more modern in their approach to being Cabinet secretaries - do you remember when Humphrey said that a secretary keeps 'secrets' - i checked it out and yes that is the origin of the word a 'secretary'

[@andrewphillips8341]

True, but they always make so hungry. Almost on a primal level

[@CyclingUpsideDown]

0:21 - says "it's the thin end of the wedge". Then proceeds to remove the thin end of the wedge of cheese. Genius symbolism.

[@CiceroLounge]

Fantastic Irony - well spotted

[@VitoDuval]

R I P John Nettleton, great show.

[@JiyutoSeigi]

I think the ending was cut just two seconds too soon: Sir Arnold says, "Always happy to oblige ... especially with the Birthday Honours coming up." And Sir Humphrey nods, takes the point. We know Sir Arnold will soon get another class of knighthood. The Ol' Boys' network isn't always unconditional help for fellow-members; it can be quid pro quo or favor-based. Also cf. the Chinese concept of "guanxi", which Sir Arnold and Sir Humphrey would scoff at for not being British, but which they'd recognize in an instant from their decades of experience in a parallel system.

[@CiceroLounge]

You're right he does say that. Actually, that final comment cements his mischeive

[@CiceroLounge]

Yes, that's quite correct it does end with the honours being mentioned, with the 'knowing' glance. I thought he was already GCMG or did Bernard mention to Jim that he was hopeful for that noble order?

[@uncommon_name9337]

The British copied some aspects of Chinese bureaucracy including the imperial exams.

[@nobel87able]

​@@CiceroLoungethe highest office in Calling honor?

[@YD-uq5fi]

Sir Arnold Robinson is the supreme power in Britain. Much more than the Queen and certainly the PM. Magesterial, pompous, calculating, and always in total control. One must be in awe of Sir Arnold Robinson. He bestrides the Commonwealth like a Colossus.

[@CiceroLounge]

I suppose the current one, Jeremy Heywood is not as calculating as him though - after all it was a comedy programme, though it was close to the truth and used historic stories from ministers at the time

[@salimtufail]

Sir Arnold the brilliant mastermind! Fully agreed.

[@CiceroLounge]

Thanks salim

[@kayakmanonthego]

to g He is indeed the GRAND son of a bitxx in every way and form. Too bad every country seems to have got a few of them.

[@hagamapama]

arnold lost once and once only -- during "A Bed of Nails" and Hacker and humpy had to work together to bring his scheme down.

[@victorandresgarciaguardia3747]

Sir Arnold Robinson: the most intelligent character of the series. HANDS DOWN!

[@lancasterII]

As wily as Sir Humphrey is in this, this and other scenes prove that Sir Arnold is still at the top of the greasy pole, due to his sheer experience. Sir Arnold is the Yoda Jedi Master of the Civil Service/the Q to Sir Humphrey's Luke/Picard.

[@CiceroLounge]

Interesting sci-fi analogy :) Yes, Sir Arnold does have that Yoda persona

[@jalpat2272]

more like a sith lord and his apprentice.

[@mrbojangles8133]

what if he actually voiced Yoda?

[@peterbradshaw8018]

how to lie with statistics down to a tee.

[@danendrahartawan9268]

Peter Bradshaw "oh, like cooking"

[@peterbradshaw8018]

Cooking the books indeed.

[@CiceroLounge]

I love the ending about reclassifying for grant puposes

[@readsomebooks666]

Cheese, port and coffee. Wonderful way to end a lunch.

[@johnking5174]

There is a little error made here by the writers. Sir Humphrey and Sir Arnold were having lunch at their club. We join them at what seems to be the end of their meal, when cheese, crackers and coffee is served. Why did Sir Humphrey wait past three courses before talking to Sir Arnold about the civil service pay bill problem?

[@readsomebooks666]

@@johnking5174 Talking about other, more pleasant topics first before getting to Humphey's troubles at the end?

[@barrymarshall]

RIP John Nettleton. Sir Arnold is my favourite character on Yes Minister.

[@tad4857]

RIP John Nettleton 😢

[@pix046]

The Old Etonian tie.

[@DieFlabbergast]

"Oxford doesn't _give_ Upper Seconds" does it?" When this was written and broadcast (in the 1980s) yes, Oxford University _did_ give upper seconds (from the late seventies, I believe). But these two would have been at Oxford in the fifties, and might not have been _au fait_ with current developments.

[@CiceroLounge]

Thanks for that DieFlabbergast. I didn't know that, and yes it would have reflected that particular time as the program (broadcast in the 80s) took as its research a smorgasbord of anecdotes from MPs during the Wilson government and a number of other governments pre-Wilson era

[@ABC_DEF]

This is not correct. Oxford divided the seconds into 2.1s and 2.2s in either 1986 or 1987 (I think it was 1986). When I did Mods at Oxford in 1985 you got a first or a second or a third, but when I did finals in 1987 you got a first, a 2.1, a 2.2 or a third.

[@CiceroLounge]

Absolutely, I believe that would probably be right

[@dscott6629]

@@ABC_DEF I'm guessing, however, that amongst Oxford graduates the grades would be known as a first, an upper second, a second, and a third... and following up on this I've learned that not only do they use upper second to this day, they refer to a grade in the top of the range as a "strong upper second".

[@ABC_DEF]

@@dscott6629 That is not quite right. Down to 1985 the degree classes were First, Second and Third, and from 1986 they were First, Upper Second (more commonly called 2.1), Lower Second (more commonly called 2.2) and Third. No one who has a degree from 1986 or later calls it a Second. They would say 2.1 or 2.2. It's certainly possible to say that you have a high 2.1, a low 2.2 or whatever, and these days graduates are told their average mark and so can prove how good their degree was.

[@YD-uq5fi]

That is a LOT of cheese for two people.

[@johnking5174]

There is a little error made here by the writers. Sir Humphrey and Sir Arnold were having lunch at their club. We join them at what seems to be the end of their meal, when cheese, crackers and coffee is served. Why did Sir Humphrey wait past three courses before talking to Sir Arnold about the civil service pay bill problem?

[@lachyt5247]

@@johnking5174 Its bad form to have professional discussions during the courses and without sufficient chitchat as preamble. In etonian/oxon culture (to which Humphrey and Arnold both belong) serious discussions are reserved for the end of a meal.

[@johnking5174]

@@lachyt5247 I remember my lunches in the civil service, and we generally avoided talking about our work for the one hour we had.

[@leftcoaster67]

I'm curious if the civil service still gets 4 course meals at lunch and a glass of claret.

[@johnking5174]

In 2021, you can claim back the cost of a lunch from the government procurement card scheme.

[@LovingPrinceTamayuki]

There's some kind of high-pitched ringing going on in the video.

[@guguigugu]

outstanding awards for everyone!

[@terrywamafaro4810]

Sir Arnold is gangsta 😂

[@jmosleyism]

anybody think the Sir Arnold should be prime minister ?

[@CiceroLounge]

Yes :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJycoaShhLKap5I

[@CiceroLounge]

Definately

[@leftcoaster67]

Head of the civil service has more power than the Prime Minister.

[@johnking5174]

Sir Arnold would never want to be Prime Minister. No power, no influence and the problem of having to get elected every 5 years, controlling your cabinet and party - horrible position to be in. So many wanted the job, and when they finally got it, saw how terrible it was.

[@silverstrike6048]

Oh my God! They brought that much cheese to a table for two? That would cost a fortune!

[@iandhr1]

I love the exchange at the end also how Humphrey throws Frank under the bus during the episode. Arnold: "Should I talk to Frank about this too?" Humphrey: "Leave it to me Frank has a lot of problems coming up." Arnold: "Really he hasn't mentioned them." Humphrey: "Probably because he doesn't know about them yet."

[@CiceroLounge]

Yeah, classic line! Humphrey's scheme whiring along!

[@sheavepin]

Permanent Secretary, No.10 Cabinet Office £150,000 - £154,999, not too shabby...

[@CiceroLounge]

Quite a lot really, and that probably is their basic salary excluding bonuses, but was thinking is this lower than the salaries and bonuses paid out to Chairpeople and chief execs of BP ($19.6 million) , IBM ($32 million) BBC controller (£160,000)

[@brianquinn9453]

The Cabinet Secretary (Arnold's former position and Humphrey's current position) gets paid about 100,000 more than that.

[@CiceroLounge]

Gus O'Donnell was reputedly on £235,000 at one point though Jeremy Heywood is listed as being salaried at 195,000 (2017)

[@johnking5174]

@@CiceroLounge Don't forget allowances and expenses. The government procurement card scheme is a nice way to pay for a lot of personal things with public money. I have seen the return slips from a few years a go. It is not a joke, civil servants put nearly all their lunches on to the procurement card under expenses.

[@dandy-lions5788]

RIP :(

[@johnking5174]

There is a little error made here by the writers. Sir Humphrey and Sir Arnold were having lunch at their club. We join them at what seems to be the end of their meal, when cheese, crackers and coffee is served. Why did Sir Humphrey wait past three courses before talking to Sir Arnold about the civil service pay bill problem??

[@seamusoflatcap]

My dear chap, one simply has to concentrate on a splendid claret and roast beef. To discuss work would be, well, absolutely barbaric.

[@kokoeteantigha389]

@@seamusoflatcap ....not to mention, rather vulgar, if one were to ask that of dear old Oscar Wilde.

[@seamusoflatcap]

@@kokoeteantigha389 I can't say I know much about Oscar Wilde but I do like a quote, attributed to him "you should try everything once, except incest and Morris dancing. " I do not know if the latter leads to the former.

[@johnnettleton774]

@@seamusoflatcap ze

[@burgundian-peanuts]

The real question is, why did you post this comment three times?

[@sasmac1829]

Sir Arnold I doff my hat in your honour

[@JimGardner]

Think this still doesn't happen? Wake up.

[@eddieclark4308]

Jim Gardner- The upper class is still corrupt, but not in the same way. The bureaucracy is less powerful than it was. So while fair for the time this sort of thing wouldn't be fair for nowadays.

[@xandercorp6175]

+Eddie Clark The central idea in this clip is the manipulation of statistics, which can be done entirely separate from the social class to which you belong. In fact, I'd argue that today, it's the middle class academics, bureaucrats, and salesmen who do it the most.

[@CiceroLounge]

But done so gracefully well by the scriptwiters of this comedy Jim?

[@connormcewen4601]

SO THAT IS WHY INFLATION IS ONLY 2 AN A BIT %. TEE HEE HEE, INSTEAD OF BETWEEN 9-13 % GUFFAW

[@EarlJohn61]

So according to this, 43% = 6%

[@deookure6814]

Basically you had no place in civil service if you didn't go to Oxford et al. I'm thinking Eton as well. Wow!

[@urmo345]

"all you do is stop calling the civil servants" This is how EU does not have political prisoners...they stopped calling them so.

[@bushit123456]

Who are you refering to?

[@mcfcguvnors]

RIP John :/