Sir Roger Penrose & Dr. Stuart Hameroff: CONSCIOUSNESS AND THE PHYSICS OF THE BRAIN

January 10, 2020
Roth Auditorium - Sanford Consortium for Regenerative Medicine
La Jolla, CA
An intimate lecture with renowned mathematical physicist Sir Roger Penrose and anesthesiologist Dr. Stuart Hameroff, followed by a conversation with The Science Network co-founder Roger Bingham. Co-organized by The Penrose Institute and the UC San Diego Institute for Neural Computation, with the support of Intheon, Neocortex Ventures, and the Data Science Alliance.
Sir Roger Penrose and Dr. Stuart Hameroff discuss one of the leading theories of consciousness recently selected by the Templeton Foundation for study.
Is the brain a sophisticated computer or an intuitive thinking device? Following on from their conference in Tucson which pitted Integrated Information Theory (IIT) against Orchestrated Objective Reduction (Orch-OR), Sir Roger Penrose OM and Stuart Hameroff discuss the current state of theories that might explain human consciousness.
Sir Roger Penrose describe examples of ‘non-computability’ in human consciousness, thoughts and actions such as the way we evaluate particular chess positions which cast doubt on ‘Turing’ computation as a complete explanation of brain function. As a source of non-computability, Roger discuss his ‘objective reduction’ (‘OR’) self-collapse of the quantum wavefunction which is a potential resolution for the ‘measurement problem’ in quantum mechanics, and a mechanism for non-computable physics.
Dr. Stuart Hameroff reviews neuronal and biophysical aspects of Orch OR, in which ‘orchestrated’ quantum vibrations occur among entangled brain microtubules and evolve toward Orch OR threshold and consciousness. The nature, feasibility, decoherence times and evidence for quantum vibrations in microtubules, their role and correlation with consciousness, effects upon them of anesthetic gases and psychedelic drug molecules will be discussed, along with Orch OR criticisms and predictions of microtubule quantum vibrations as therapeutic targets for mental and cognitive disorders.
Biography: Sir Roger Penrose OM FRS, Emeritus Professor at the Mathematical Institute of the University of Oxford, Emeritus Fellow at Wadham College, and winner of the Wolf Prize in Physics, has made profound contributions across a broad range of scientific disciplines. His work encompasses geometry, black hole singularities, the unification of quantum mechanics and gravity, the structure of space-time, and the origin of our Universe. His geometric creations inspired the works of Escher, and the Penrose steps have been featured in several movies. His tilings adorn many public buildings, including the Oxford Mathematics Institute, and will soon decorate the San Francisco Transbay Terminal. The five-fold symmetry, initially thought impossible or a mathematical curiosity, has now been found in nature. In 1989 Penrose wrote The Emperor’s New Mind which challenged the premise that consciousness is computation and proposes we need new physics to understand it.
Biography: Stuart Hameroff MD is an anesthesiologist at the University of Arizona in Tucson. In the mid 1990s Hameroff teamed with famed British physicist Sir Roger Penrose to develop a quantum theory of consciousness (‘orchestrated objective reduction’, ‘Orch OR’) based on microtubule quantum computing. Highly controversial and harshly criticized, Orch OR is now supported by evidence, e.g. that anesthetics act in quantum channels in microtubules, and that microtubules have multi-scalar resonances, e.g. in megahertz. He and anesthesiology colleagues performed and published the first clinical trial of transcranial ultrasound (‘TUS’) on mental states in human volunteers, showing mood enhancement from brief, low intensity TUS. Beginning in 1994 Hameroff was the lead in starting an interdisciplinary, international conference series ‘Toward a Science of Consciousness’ held in even-numbered years in Tucson, and odd-numbered years elsewhere around the world. Hameroff has written or edited 5 books, over a hundred scientific articles and book chapters, lectured around the world, and appeared in the film ‘WhattheBleep?’ and numerous TV shows about consciousness on BBC, PBS, Discovery, OWN and History Channel.
Biography: Roger Bingham is the Cofounder and Director of The Science Network (thesciencenetwork.org/) and a member of the Computational Neurobiology Laboratory at the Salk Institute and the Institute for Neural Computation, UC San Diego. He is the co-author of The Origin of Minds: Evolution, Uniqueness, and the New Science of the Self, and the creator and host of Emmy award-winning PBS science programs on evolutionary psychology and cognitive neuroscience, including the critically acclaimed series The Human Quest. He is the Founding Director of the Collaboratory, a Center within INC, which is developing a Science In Society program of public and student engagement to explore and bridge the chasm between the creators and consumers of science and technology.

[@AlvaroALorite]

I hope Penrose lives many years more, he is a gift for humanity :)

[@HarryNicNicholas]

ditto.

[@tmlavenz]

Amen

[@billdrumming]

He won the Nobel a Prize

[@ironsideeve2955]

Well said!

[@squamish4244]

Into his 100s, I hope. Ten more years, come on Penrose! Sure has the energy for it.

[@LADOT2012]

I’m learning more from the University of KZbin than any college I’ve ever attended in my life! Well... those college experiences got me to this realization.

[@phyllisneal8687]

😂😂😂 Love it! Me, too!

[@TheDavidlloydjones]

And just think, some of it might even be correct!

[@felixfedre518]

Don't waste your time listening to this nonsense, this is where you will do the learning kzbin.info/www/bejne/gneZhGlumLeartE

[@richbright540]

Zzz zzz zzz zzz z t Z see zzz rzdzzdzz zzz

[@richbright540]

I do apologize sleeping with KZbin on auto play. Musta moved

[@M.-.D]

So incredible to see Professor Penrose win the Nobel Prize. One of the greatest minds.

[@___Truth___]

I know I'm so proud of him he's work so hard so diligently & as a master scientist for many years, it's about time ! 😄

[@albat6538]

It was incredible to me that he got one only this year. Some of his groundbreaking research opened entire new areas of science and technology. To name a couple, Moore-Penrose pseudoinverse matrix (ubiquitous in science and technology) and Penrose tilings in quasicrystals (note the 2011 Nobel prize).

[@samrowbotham8914]

I prefer the mind of his brother Jonathan who held the record for winning the British Chess Championship a record number of times, at times in Britain he was unbeatable and much-lauded by chess players everywhere.

[@frankdimeglio8216]

No, he is not a great thinker. He's not honest either.

[@M.-.D]

@@frankdimeglio8216 interesting, what makes you disagree and say that?

[@501promo]

This is what prime time network television should look like. (Edit: Should have looked like)

[@HarryNicNicholas]

great minds think alike (i hope) i just posted a similar comment on eric weinsteins interview with penrose, i tell people i had a comprehensive school education, but most of my brain expansion was down to watching open university programs at 2AM, if we could ditch reality tv and replace it with this king of stuff, maybe a little more low brow, then i wonder what the world would look like.

[@ZaydDepaor]

​@@HarryNicNicholas It would look just as bad almost (setting aside the negative impacts and suggestions of reality TV/junk TV and fiction) as you can't solve any economic, social, political, health, emotional, psychological problems with some theoretical speculations about supposed physical nature of consciousness.... Society is governed by ideology/philosophy/religion....not by theoretical sciences...they don't produce any system, laws, morality, ideology or philosophy. In fact such attempts to explain everything away on the basis of a materialist belief is a major contributor to the problems of individual and society. If you eliminate one option from the beginning on the basis of philosophical/social/emotional/ideological motives or prejudice, then you are putting a false filter on your analysis and conclusions...so it is not only unscientific, but more importantly, irrational. But if there were deeper education in all spheres, in mainstream education, media etc...dealing with fundamental questions, purpose, nature of fundamental reality etc...then it should lead to deeper conclusions and lives of more substance, individually and collectively. The current education system and media tends to stop people from thinking deeply.

[@dan2250]

Great comment

[@robopoet]

Good luck. This is what the internet is for.

[@Sharperthanu1]

Most people out there are too dumb for that.They make a good living at it.

[@ceejayc6502]

I love that this guy draws his own visuals. He doesn't need any flash... and is astounding. What a treasure.

[@DR_1_1]

I'm more impressed by his math and physics than his drawings, I must admit. Looking at his manual presentation, I was feeling bad for him thinking about how some people will judge the book by the cover... Not that the drawings and colored text are bad, but I could have done that when 7 yo!

[@danmcbmusic]

Yes I love his slides

[@mellowfellow6816]

In a world of PowerPoint presentations, one man stands alone...

[@mousetrapstudios]

ahahahaha

[@MilesHartl93]

🤣

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

that is what we need to explain consciousness (scrawls some cartoons)...

[@MichaelAntonFischer]

The screen does not do him justice. You should see him with a whiteboard and transparent slides

[@pdub3433]

>cue the trailer voice guy

[@Macknsteez]

Absolute genius. Once in a century mind.

[@billdrumming]

Just won the Nobel prize

[@peregrineweal]

Once in a Universe mind probably. He takes us all to school.

[@billdrumming]

@@peregrineweal Same with hawking

[@poonamsharma-ot6jp]

Indian Adi guru Shankarachaarya and our Ancient scientists know this for more than 5000 years.If you read Bhagwat geeta you will come to know.👍

[@frankdimeglio8216]

Ridiculous.

[@lordemed1]

Sir Roger is brilliant. Dr Hameroff gives surprisingly clear explanations.

[@danielmcgregor8803]

Dr. Penrose is brilliant and one of the few physicists looking in right direction.

[@l.g.a.8930]

He is trying BUT lots of lecturing but he HAS to do his own experiments and proofs and so far.... we are still looking... but I don't think so... time is running out. he is getting too old.

[@kundakaps]

How do you know he is looking in the "right direction"?

[@lorenyoungren9129]

@@kundakaps he makes sense. When l read The Emperor's New Mind l found one who was explaining my views on consciousness not being computation.

[@mousetrapstudios]

A lecture without an introduction but a background of the speakers in the notes? Someone has finally figured it out.

[@reynalindstrom2496]

"Life is a Quantum process" Stuart Hameroff nailed it.Love from Sweden

[@TuxedoMaskMusic]

Consciousness certainly seems to be. I think the Buddha nailed it. LIFE is "Dukkha" lol.

[@Tadesan]

That's the same statement as "life is a chemical process".

[@kcottone]

If only this information was available when I studied psychology and philosophy in college 20 years ago. This is the most exciting and compelling theory I've ever seen.

[@gerardjones7881]

the information was available, I've been reading Penrose since the 1980's.

[@GreenLight11111]

love his wee colourful titles

[@HarryNicNicholas]

well as a professional i have to say his typography is appalling, but of course his geometry can't really be faulted by a bufoon like me.

[@rawr4444]

Oh, wow...! I forgot how much I loved Penrose's hand drawn slides! He is so cool!

[@austinunterbrink9805]

Having these 2 together on this topic is awesome!!

[@deadscenedotcom]

Outstanding. This is the best collection of supporting data from Penrose and Hameroff in one place. Really beautiful post. Thank you.

[@jorgejoaquinpuentenovell3183]

I have been searching for the same and yes, I think this is it

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

if only the principles behind their interpretations were scientific.....

[@lordemed1]

@@nickolasgaspar9660 Patience...patience

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

@@lordemed1 how patience can change the fact that his conclusions are based on non scientific principles and paradigms? For more than 2.300 years of recorded Western Philosophy and we never had verified the supernatural. That doesn't make it not true but irrational to believe in it.

[@frankdimeglio8216]

THE CLEAR, BALANCED, AND UNDENIABLE PROOF OF THE FACT THAT E=MC2 IS F=MA: E=mc2 IS F=ma. With the MIDDLE DISTANCE in/of SPACE AND the FULL DISTANCE in/of SPACE in fundamental equilibrium AND BALANCE, a given PLANET (INCLUDING WHAT IS THE EARTH) necessarily sweeps out EQUAL AREAS in equal times in accordance with perpetual motion AND the UNIVERSAL fact that E=MC2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is then CLEARLY proven to be gravity. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. INSTANTANEITY is thus FUNDAMENTAL to what is the FULL and proper UNDERSTANDING of physics/physical experience, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma IN BALANCE. Importantly, BALANCE and completeness go hand in hand. Time DILATION ULTIMATELY proves ON BALANCE that ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity, as E=mc2 IS F=ma. This NECESSARILY represents, INVOLVES, AND DESCRIBES what is possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE. Ultimately and truly, TIME is NECESSARILY possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. TIME CLEARLY necessitates and proves (ON BALANCE) that E=mc2 IS F=ma, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. Great. OVERLAY what is THE EYE in BALANCED RELATION to/WITH what is THE EARTH. Notice the black space of THE EYE. The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. THE DOME of a person's EYE is ALSO VISIBLE. Now, carefully consider what is the semi-spherical, translucent, QUANTUM GRAVITATIONAL, AND BLUE SKY. Great. E=mc2 IS F=ma. It is CLEAR. The BALANCE of being AND EXPERIENCE is essential. What is THE EYE is ALSO the body ON BALANCE. Objects fall at the SAME RATE (neglecting air resistance, of course), AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Great !!! The EARTH/ground CLEARLY constitutes what is the FULL DISTANCE in/of SPACE. Now consider what is the blue sky. The Earth is ALSO BLUE as water. Gravity AND ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy are linked AND BALANCED opposites, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. GREAT. This NECESSARILY represents, INVOLVES, AND DESCRIBES what is possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE. Now, VERY CAREFULLY consider what is BALANCED BODILY/VISUAL EXPERIENCE. Great !!!! Time DILATION ULTIMATELY proves (ON BALANCE) that E=mc2 IS F=ma, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity/acceleration involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. (Accordingly, the rotation of WHAT IS THE MOON matches it's revolution; AND the Moon is necessarily fixed or basically constant in it's form and shape.) "Mass"/ENERGY involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE consistent with/AS what is BALANCED electromagnetic/gravitational force/ENERGY, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma. (Energy has/involves GRAVITY, AND ENERGY has/involves inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE.) E=MC2 IS F=ma as what is the middle distance in/of SPACE in BALANCED RELATION to/WITH what is the FULL DISTANCE in/of SPACE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. So, gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. Great. The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. GRAVITATIONAL force/ENERGY IS proportional to (or BALANCED with/as) inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY; AS E=MC2 IS F=ma. Beautiful. Ultimately and truly, TIME is NECESSARILY possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. GREAT. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. It ALL CLEARLY makes perfect sense. A PHOTON may be placed at the center of what is THE SUN (as A POINT, of course), AS the reduction of SPACE is offset by (or BALANCED with) the speed of light; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Great. THEREFORE: E=MC2 AS F=MA CLEARLY PROVES (ON BALANCE) WHY AND HOW THE PROPER AND FULL UNDERSTANDING OF TIME (AND TIME DILATION) UNIVERSALLY ESTABLISHES THE FACT THAT ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY: A PHOTON may be placed at the center of what is THE SUN (as A POINT, of course), AS the reduction of SPACE is offset by (or BALANCED with) the speed of light; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Indeed, the stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. E=mc2 IS F=ma. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. Time DILATION ULTIMATELY proves ON BALANCE that ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is GRAVITY, AS E=mc2 IS F=ma. Indeed, TIME is NECESSARILY possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY; AS E=MC2 IS F=MA. Great. "Mass"/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. E=mc2 IS F=ma. (Very importantly, outer "space" involves full inertia; AND it is fully invisible AND black.) BALANCE and completeness go hand in hand. It ALL CLEARLY makes perfect sense. I have mathematically unified physics/physical experience, as I have CLEARLY proven that E=mc2 IS F=ma in what is a truly universal and BALANCED fashion. By Frank DiMeglio

[@witty437]

Sir Roger Penrose and Dr. Stuart Hameroff: Thank you for being awesome! Thank you for keeping an example of academia that is kind and true. There's great love for you from so many who are starved. God bless.

[@SahilP2648]

God doesn't exist you muppet

[@squamish4244]

It's interesting how many physicists go after Penrose's collaborator Stuart Hameroff, the anaesthesiologist, in debates, but none (to my knowledge) will challenge Penrose himself. He is so intimidating that everyone is scared of him. I think he's the finest mind in physics today, and I hope he lives to 100 to continue spreading his ideas.

[@macysondheim]

Penrose continues to spread his LIES & atheism… Forcefully pushing his ATHEISTIC liberal agenda at universities. It’s total nonsense, all this science jargon. None of it can be proven in a lab, merely wild speculation. It makes me sick to my stomach… 😷🤢🤮

[@Chaloonoupada]

Enter Chat: Edward Witten

[@ExistenceUniversity]

​@@ChaloonoupadaWitten is a scam artist lol

[@Anon-xd3cf]

Penrose presentation slides, like his book illustrations, are fantastic.

[@VishalShinde-wz3mu]

Thanks lot to great work done by Sir Roger Penrose & Dr. Stuart Hameroff

[@GuillermoPSKrebs]

*Penrose* 0:00:05 New Physics to understand consciousness 0:00:28 1) Views about consciousness 0:01:40 2) Aspects of consciousness: understanding, intelligence, awareness 0:02:43 3) Chess: difference between computation & understanding *Hameroff* 0:46:51 Neurobiology of the _Orch OR_ theory of consciousness

[@brendawilliams8062]

About 45:00 where does the energy of the system go between laser pulses?

[@YawnGod]

Transparencies in a Power Point. Fantastic. I am pleased with the additional entropy increase in the universe required to pull that off.

[@JazzyKex78]

I only have a gcse in mathematics but I find this fascinating. I like the way roger penrose explains concepts instead of just baffling you with maths language I would never be able to understand. Stuart hameroff is amazing!

[@davidt01]

You have to be smart to understand some things, but it takes a genius to explain them well.

[@Maxinator11-11]

I hope they both live long lives, Penrose & Hammeroff.

[@zagyex]

Never seen the two of them together, following OrchOR for almost a decade now!

[@dogangokce238]

A

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

well they have different interpretations on the phenomenon.

[@samrowbotham8914]

Anthony Peake writes about OrchOr in his books and argues that we live the same life over and over again which fits in with Nietzsche's Eternal Recurrence and it seems some of the greatest minds in the world have had something to say about it. James Joyce Finnigan's wake is a good example: “His chapter (James Joyce ) on The Eternal Return is full of examples of people exploring the idea and it goes way back in history and was explored by people in both the Orient and Occident. Its interesting that Mary Queen of Scots who was a devout Catholic had the words Ma Fin est Mon Commencment embroidered in the Chair of State at Holyrood Palace in Scotland it translates as "my beginning is my end". "Many writers Byron, Shelly, Ts Eliot, Joyce explored this idea in fact Finnigan's wake starts and ends in a circle of time. opens with: riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve to shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs. ends in: A way a lone last a loved a long the If you look closely it becomes very interesting Joyce starts the novel off with a lower case letter and ends it with the word the, when you juxtaposition end and beginning you get: A way a lone last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve to shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodious vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs. Clearly, this is deliberate Joyce is showing us that life itself is circular and its real nature the Eternal Return. He skilfully used puns and wordplay to reinforce the idea, he was heavily influenced by Vico the Italian Philosopher. Hence the cryptic reference with word vicus in the opening gambit. The word Fin and Again ending and beginning and gives us the name Finnegan. Without wishing to spoil the book for those who have not read it Tim Finnegan is a hard-drinking hod-carrier who falls from a ladder breaking his skull. The wake held after his funeral the mourners get rowdy and spill whiskey on Tim's head bringing the corpse back to life. Whiskey here denotes the water of life it kills him and miraculously brings him back to life." Anthony Peake

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

@@samrowbotham8914 so essentially your argument is " 0+0+0+0+0....+0=1" Its nice chronicling on people's comforting beliefs through history but everything boils down to one thing. Do you have the unit(1) to justify your equation? Are there any objective evidence supportive of this death denying ideology. How can we jump from a quantum mechanism of the brain to immortality of the mind? What about the mountain of evidence pointing to the emergent nature of our conscious states rounded on the total sum of our brain functions. Should we ignore logic and objective evidence just to ease our existential anxieties.?

[@samrowbotham8914]

@@nickolasgaspar9660 I think you need to look into Idealism I would suggest the books of Bernardo Kastrup. Consciousness is not emerging it is primary and everything else emanates from it. You are probably ignorant of the research of the late Dr John Lorber who found over 100 people born with a congenital condition called 'extreme hydranencephaly', these people are born without the brain which proves beyond all doubt that consciousness is not an epiphenomenon of the brain and that alone blows Materialism clean out of the water. Here is another doctor talking about a child with the condition who was his patient: “Hydranencephaly is very common - we see several cases a year at our university hospital - but there's a tremendous difference between having a regional area of brain male development, and having a condition called extreme hydranencephaly, where there is NO DEFINABLE residual brain tissue.” Dr Robert Leshner who is Professor of paediatric neurology at the Medical College Virginia US. Stuart alludes to Lorber's work at the 1:42 mark Lorber was not at Oxford but at Sheffield University if these people have any neurons they are in the brain stem and also in the gut. I agree with people like Lipton who argues that every cell is conscious. This short video nails it for me and of course the Gnostics knew this 2000 years ago: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rGO7pKNqe7eal9U

[@guynouri]

Thanks Locating consciousness beyond science

[@guynouri]

That is.. beyond quantum

[@lordemed1]

Sir Roger thinks science will eventually show the way. It will be a new, as yet known science, that is.

[@alf9708]

Penrose has lain bare countless scientific threads to pursue in our understanding of how this all ties together. Just amazing.

[@AlexReales]

Thank you. You have confirmed so much for me . Amazingly beautiful talk

[@akumar7366]

Since the lockdown started I've been waiting for a new Penrose lecture ,thanks for sharing .

[@imgayasheck595]

You and me both :)

[@frankdimeglio8216]

THE CLEAR, BALANCED, AND UNDENIABLE PROOF OF THE FACT THAT E=MC2 IS F=MA: E=mc2 IS F=ma. With the MIDDLE DISTANCE in/of SPACE AND the FULL DISTANCE in/of SPACE in fundamental equilibrium AND BALANCE, a given PLANET (INCLUDING WHAT IS THE EARTH) necessarily sweeps out EQUAL AREAS in equal times in accordance with perpetual motion AND the UNIVERSAL fact that E=MC2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is then CLEARLY proven to be gravity. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. INSTANTANEITY is thus FUNDAMENTAL to what is the FULL and proper UNDERSTANDING of physics/physical experience, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma IN BALANCE. Importantly, BALANCE and completeness go hand in hand. Time DILATION ULTIMATELY proves ON BALANCE that ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity, as E=mc2 IS F=ma. This NECESSARILY represents, INVOLVES, AND DESCRIBES what is possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE. Ultimately and truly, TIME is NECESSARILY possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. TIME CLEARLY necessitates and proves (ON BALANCE) that E=mc2 IS F=ma, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. Great. OVERLAY what is THE EYE in BALANCED RELATION to/WITH what is THE EARTH. Notice the black space of THE EYE. The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. THE DOME of a person's EYE is ALSO VISIBLE. Now, carefully consider what is the semi-spherical, translucent, QUANTUM GRAVITATIONAL, AND BLUE SKY. Great. E=mc2 IS F=ma. It is CLEAR. The BALANCE of being AND EXPERIENCE is essential. What is THE EYE is ALSO the body ON BALANCE. Objects fall at the SAME RATE (neglecting air resistance, of course), AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Great !!! The EARTH/ground CLEARLY constitutes what is the FULL DISTANCE in/of SPACE. Now consider what is the blue sky. The Earth is ALSO BLUE as water. Gravity AND ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy are linked AND BALANCED opposites, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. GREAT. This NECESSARILY represents, INVOLVES, AND DESCRIBES what is possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE. Now, VERY CAREFULLY consider what is BALANCED BODILY/VISUAL EXPERIENCE. Great !!!! Time DILATION ULTIMATELY proves (ON BALANCE) that E=mc2 IS F=ma, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity/acceleration involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. (Accordingly, the rotation of WHAT IS THE MOON matches it's revolution; AND the Moon is necessarily fixed or basically constant in it's form and shape.) "Mass"/ENERGY involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE consistent with/AS what is BALANCED electromagnetic/gravitational force/ENERGY, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma. (Energy has/involves GRAVITY, AND ENERGY has/involves inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE.) E=MC2 IS F=ma as what is the middle distance in/of SPACE in BALANCED RELATION to/WITH what is the FULL DISTANCE in/of SPACE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. So, gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. Great. The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. GRAVITATIONAL force/ENERGY IS proportional to (or BALANCED with/as) inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY; AS E=MC2 IS F=ma. Beautiful. Ultimately and truly, TIME is NECESSARILY possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. GREAT. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. It ALL CLEARLY makes perfect sense. A PHOTON may be placed at the center of what is THE SUN (as A POINT, of course), AS the reduction of SPACE is offset by (or BALANCED with) the speed of light; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Great. THEREFORE: E=MC2 AS F=MA CLEARLY PROVES (ON BALANCE) WHY AND HOW THE PROPER AND FULL UNDERSTANDING OF TIME (AND TIME DILATION) UNIVERSALLY ESTABLISHES THE FACT THAT ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY: A PHOTON may be placed at the center of what is THE SUN (as A POINT, of course), AS the reduction of SPACE is offset by (or BALANCED with) the speed of light; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Indeed, the stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. E=mc2 IS F=ma. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. Time DILATION ULTIMATELY proves ON BALANCE that ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is GRAVITY, AS E=mc2 IS F=ma. Indeed, TIME is NECESSARILY possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY; AS E=MC2 IS F=MA. Great. "Mass"/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. E=mc2 IS F=ma. (Very importantly, outer "space" involves full inertia; AND it is fully invisible AND black.) BALANCE and completeness go hand in hand. It ALL CLEARLY makes perfect sense. I have mathematically unified physics/physical experience, as I have CLEARLY proven that E=mc2 IS F=ma in what is a truly universal and BALANCED fashion. By Frank DiMeglio

[@akumar7366]

@@frankdimeglio8216 Can I politely suggest you sett up your own utube channel to share your views, I think it is overbearing to send such a long thread, I doubt many people will read what you have written,thanks Bud .

[@frankdimeglio8216]

WHY HABITUAL AND SELFISH LIARS SUCH AS BRIAN GREENE, SABINE HOSSENFELDER, AND DAVID SPERGEL ARE PART OF A MUCH WIDER AND SINISTER NIGHTMARE THAT IS RAPIDLY UNFOLDING: We always begin with typical, common, and ordinary experience in establishing physical FUNDAMENTALS/truths. LIFE is about living. TEACH REAL PHYSICS. E=mc2 IS F=ma. The truth is the way. BALANCE AND completeness go hand in hand. Modern physics is BIG BUSINESS that is far more concerned with making money than it is with making sense and TRULY helping people IN GENERAL. THINK. They have their business equipment (telescopes, rockets, war making/destructive devices, nuclear power, nuclear pollution/waste, particle colliders, satellites, microscopes, etc.) and their other business practices (e.g., courses, books, tuition, "peer" "review") that they use to "corner the market" on what they then sell and present to you as legitimate and "ESSENTIAL" business products and "truths". They make ENORMOUS amounts of MONEY by changing experience from what is natural. In other words, to a very disturbing and significant extent, they are FABRICATING reality and the "truth" along with it. HOWEVER, TRUTH, reality, AND nature/natural experience go hand in hand. FACT. Indeed, if we walk away from reality, reality walks away from us. (STOP watching television.) In fact, the big picture is ESSENTIAL. It is called having common sense. The INTEGRATED EXTENSIVENESS of THOUGHT (AND description) is improved in the truly superior mind. INDEED, the big question is who is TRULY and actually "BENEFITTING" from all of this; and for what reasons? For example, are our tax dollars actually being utilized WISELY? Indeed, is being a BILLIONAIRE actually and truly representative or constitutive of philanthropy !!? NO, IT IS NOT. Climate change/environmental destruction IS VERY REAL, and it is absolutely catastrophic. Stop the rip-offs, the lies/liars, the delusional nonsense, the speculative fantasies, wasteful environmental destruction, the fear mongering, the escapist hysteria, the clowning around, and OUR BEING DELIBERATELY AND DECEITFULLY DUMBED DOWN REGARDING WHAT IS OUR PRECIOUS AND TRULY PRICELESS PHYSICS/PHYSICAL EXPERIENCE. By Frank DiMeglio

[@legalfictionnaturalfact3969]

Ok dr bronner. :) But really, i agree that gravity can now be dumped in favor of electromagnetism.

[@jackieswan422]

90 with a sharp mind... wow 😯

[@nathanholbrook1693]

Dr. Penrose's transparencies are my reasons for living.

[@amandamorriss3658]

just LOVE the way he has prepared his slides

[@iamanidiotbut5523]

Artist

[@amandamorriss3658]

stick with physics -

[@mathabroad8908]

Copenhagen and many world theories put consciousness outside science and leave it firmly to spirituality. ORCH OR poses consciousness as an intrinsic property of the universe and therefore firmly in the realm of science. This bringing millenia of human experience and spirituality into scientific purvue. This is a major leap forward in the evolution of mankind.

[@___Truth___]

I think you might be going a bit too far, at best Orch OR suggests a Quantum Biological process to consciousness, ORCH OR need not be a property of the Universe

[@JBSCORNERL8]

@@___Truth___ there doesn’t need to be a biological process of consciousness, if consciousness is a fundamental part of reality. When you try and make it a process, you’re trying to reduce it to something that you compute mathematically. There are some things in this reality that can’t be computed. They just exist as qualities of this reality. I see why a lot of people like you do that. It’s because you’re looking at reality from a human perspective and humans have a tendency to break everything down. But you have to take into consideration, how you view reality, is not objective reality . Your perception is based on a need to survive and adapt to your environment. So automatically , how you view the world is already skewed.

[@GiedriusMisiukas]

Interesting thread

[@reynalindstrom2496]

Is possible that Sir Roger Pence are going to get a Nobel Prize one more time.I beleaved that Leonard Susskin are going to get a Nobel Prize,very soon and it seems like this amazing american proffesor Stuart Hameroff is a candidat for a nobel price too. Love from Sweden!

[@juansolis1087]

Thank you for this content!

[@neurophilosophers994]

Incredible work

[@gekkobear1650]

I watched this while I'm reading The Entropy Law and the Economic Process by Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen. There has to be some synthesis between these two concepts. One of GRs points is about the non-computabity of thermodynamic systems and the need for novel mutations in genomes for organisms to be able to adapt to a qualitatively changing environment. He then extends this to economics trying to model them thermodynamically similar to ecological systems. Gonna finish reading that and then watch this lecture a few more times. I feel like understanding and evolution might share a non-computable origin. If anyone else is interested in talking with me about this leave me a comment. Everyone should read GRs book regardless.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

You better read "Life on the Edge" by JohnJoe McFadden - a 2016 award-winning quantum biology book. It mentions Hameroff and Penrose a bit (but not their latest corroborations of the model).

[@lordemed1]

Isn't economics biggest problem its need to be 'scientific'? it s like trying to predict human behavior. It can often be explained, but not predicted.

[@gekkobear1650]

@@lordemed1 I mean yeah that is a huge problem with science and economics. Science itself is materialist and doesn't actually bother trying to explain quantum or thermodynamic or biological or social systems. But if you view those systems as self similar layers of the Great Mystery fractal, then economics based on thermodynamics is going to parallel many ideas from social and behavioral economics. In the end, thermodynamics, economics, ecology, and the way we treat the planet comes down to knowing our place and role in evolving systems. Indigenous people everywhere knew/know their role in evolving systems. They had and continue to fight to preserve entire cultures based around that knowledge. Civilization and dominator culture come from entitlement and the willing refusal to acknowledge our role as symbiotes part of an evolving system

[@gekkobear1650]

@you know me I think their Orch OR model is likely to be a close fit to the real world. I'm not an expert. If you're really interested in consciousness I suggest meditation and magic mushrooms

[@ranevc]

No, I am not.

[@salmanuel4053]

This video, filmed in 2020, is a breath of fresh air for those who have been trying to keep up with the views of these authors over their long and oft-contested evolution. Neuropsychologists have tried to find the basis of consciousness for three decades. One of the great physicists, Oxford Professor Roger Penrose, demonstrates that it may begin in proto-conscious. That brings it down to a physical level, since proto-conscious elements may be arising all the time in dynamic physical systems, like the atmosphere. Penrose and Stuart Hameroff, M.D., argue that this shows something is wrong with quantum theory. To solve what's wrong, they say you must go back to the Schrödinger equation, à la the half-dead/half-alive cat. Schrödinger conjured up his familiar fictional feline to show this is untenable, rendering his own theory absurd. Prof. Penrose believes that QM isn't just incomplete, it needs a good stiff fix.

[@dr.jenskuhnemann3411]

Thanks for posting, very interesting.

[@periurban]

Fantastic to see these two together. I think their Orch-OR theory is the only one that that makes consciousness something we can experiment with and study. Of course, it leads in directions that many scientists are unhappy with, because it definitively ties consciousness to the nature of the universe, and some neurologists and physicists fear where that takes us. But I believe that what Orch-OR offers us is not only the explanation (at least in part) for consciousness, but also for the nature of reality itself. It may well be that once we find the answer to "what is consciousness?" it might bring us answers to some of the fundamental questions about the wider universe.

[@lordemed1]

Consciousness being fundamental tothe universe vs being a 'byproduct' of life on this planet seems to be a real dividing line for scientists.

[@periurban]

@@lordemed1 I think these questions fall under the remit of philosophy rather than broader science. Philosophy is where the human mind goes in the absence of knowledge. If we knew that the mind was contained in the microtubules, then we might be able to look there and see what we find, and then the answer as to how it all works might be revealed.

[@Untefelehrr]

It may give a coherent explanation for observed parapsychological phenomena

[@periurban]

@@Untefelehrr All sorts of things might suddenly swim into focus. When I wrote that comment I never anticipated that in so short a time we would be surrounded by AI. I think we have a great chance of soon discovering if the Orch-OR theory bears any fruit.

[@robingood2493]

Amazing, he even said about psychedelics enhancing counsciousness and that it can be detected with quantum experiments. Amazing,

[@georgschett801]

Summarizing my take away: Consciousness is fundamental and the brain, through micro-tubuli connects to it, right? Consciousness as a fundamental field? Very, very interesting to listen to these two top scientists. Even if one day science will be able to explain consciousness, the mystery of life will be even more amazing and the question will probably be: How is it possible that all this came into play? From nothing, by coincidence? Excellent session even for laymen like me.

[@MichelleHell]

Not exactly, no. We did an experiment in physical chemistry that was a particle in a box. It was just a dye, but molecules where electrons can flow freely across them due to pi-pi orbital overlapping are a quantum mechanical system. The molecule is the box and the electron is the particle. But this is more of a tautology on the behavior of molecular orbitals. Molecular orbitals span large parts of a molecule if not the entire thing, and they arise from all the orbitals of atoms lining up and touching each other. This makes it so there is no defined location of an electron, it's just a cloud and the electrons are fluctuating across the molecule. So, with microtibules you have something similar going on. The tubes are quantum mechanical systems. They aren't interacting with any kind of field of consciousness, that we know of. These guys want to develop new science to prove that there is a field of consciousness generated by the microtubules and that the process by which this occurs supercedes quantum mechanics.

[@coneamarian3254]

@@MichelleHell Next time speak plain English ! If you do not know how to explain it to a 10 year old...you didn't understand it.

[@MichelleHell]

@@coneamarian3254 Quit trolling me. I didn't come here to talk to children. I'm not interested in talking to children. I'm not interested in educating children. Children are property of their parents, and I do not interface with children I do so with their parents. If their parents want to take what adults say and repackage it, that is on them to do. If you're the adult, it's your job to take what I've said and explain it to your child. Otherwise, accept this - a bunch of things collide and do stuff and you can't see it.

[@blakefearson3178]

Everything is known inside.

[@senerzen]

@@MichelleHell Children are NOT PROPERTY of their parents. Please do a favor to your potential kids and never make any.

[@romanb9840]

Best video I have ever watched

[@alexj9111]

Science has never defined energy. So God help us with consciousness.

[@Mantis_Shrimp99]

This is truly an amazing presentation and really getting my gears turning gonna be thinking about this while playing csgo after work lol

[@GhostkillerPlaysMC]

14:07 Lol happens to me all the time. That's why I'm glad there's KZbin where I can rewind ~30 seconds anytime I need.

[@ranjitbilas]

Found delight to hear Professor Penrose's Nobel lecture.

[@lordoftheflings]

One of the most brilliant minds humanity has produced. May you still have a long life and stay with us for many more years Sir,

[@romanescusalomeea8185]

my present for him! with love contains encrypted the theory of Totality!

[@zhuoyangye8525]

Congrats to Penrose!!!!!

[@Mecagothits]

Real G

[@eastafrika728]

Consciousness is a reflection of light through oxygen between 2 mirrors, like when a doctor looks for Consciousness in a patient's eyes

[@islandbuoy4]

so many of ye sheeple have 'consciousness' all figured out ... amazing

[@squamish4244]

Penrose is a scientist of surreal brilliance.

[@user-mu2ng9nk6i]

His contribution is very unique. He picks up the points other scientists most likely discard. ー godlikenessー

[@squamish4244]

As he talks, he takes leaps in thought that are like a challenge to others to follow.

[@Draakie100]

Where science meets spirituality (jmho). I love the study about microtubule....and it`s only gaining momentum. The whole quantum consciousness idea is awesome, I believe it can solve the problem of people using religion to fight wars. This gives me hope for our planet 😃 How awesome would it be if we had a planet where the first thing a person would think when she or he met someone new they would think; "what can I learn from you ?" Thank you very much for the amazing upload. Peace 😃

[@jdkingsley6543]

Using religion to fight wars? How if anything this further proves the lies of a god or any deity for that matter. This disarms it all.

[@kawaiiufocafe5399]

​@@jdkingsley6543 I think he said that it would stop people to use religion to make wars since spiritual concepts would be more based on science than believes

[@realcatfilms]

An interesting point for me comes at the 1:30:20 mark where Dr Hameroff says that "knowing is feeling, and that's consciousness". This helps me to make connections between these ideas about quantum consciousness and the work of Antonio Damasio' work on embodied consciousness and the vital role of the body within the formation of the brain, the mind, and consciousness. And that occurs across all species.

[@shaunpaulcroft]

Fantastic lecture; Penrose' mathematics was quite hard to follow at times (not my strong point to be fair), but the Neuroscience aspect was fascinating. Worked in Alzheimer's research for my Masters, and microtubule dysfunction through mTau hyperphosphorylation was my main interest. Very interesting to see how microtubules could directly control information storage (possibly short-term memory formation) through Quantum processes, and leads to a strong possibility that it's Tau and microtubule dysfunction, not amyloid-mediated synaptic degeneration, that could regulate short term memory loss in Alzheimers.

[@1withmyself]

These guys are awesome. I bet it'd be great to research with them

[@HarryNicNicholas]

it would be fantastic just to have one wave at you in the hallway. :)

[@kichu912]

Penrose 💓

[@StephenYuan]

Roger Penrose gives a lecture he seems to have drawn in magic marker, complete with a colorful sketch of a mermaid (which he claims has something to do with Godel and provablilty), proceeds to mispronounce the word "polynomial" seven or eight different ways. I suppose this is what total intellectual self security, knowing you're a genius and knowing every one else knows too, looks like. I don't know if orch-Or is going to solve the riddle of spacetime, but I think it deserves serious consideration among the crowd of contenders.

[@peterdilworth3110]

great lecture! May I suggest focusing the camera more on the slides, esp the complex ones, that way the viewer can better connect what the speaker is saying to the details in the slides

[@susanwoodward7485]

Resonance, reflection, relationship, reality. Consciousness is expressed through matter, but is not within matter. It is a resonant phenomenon. Coherent standing waves.

[@TuxedoMaskMusic]

I enjoy the way you put that. Thank you for being an amazing co-creator and I hope people realize the profound implications of this statement. Especially when its a particle of incoherency only moments before it is observed. Such is Polarity and the collapse of the wave function from superposition is in a polarity of waves or particles. Rather than waves AND particles. A perhaps subtle, but none the less important distinction.

[@deborahdean8867]

I think that's exactly what was said in another video. But yes, thank you. I don't think hes defined conciousness, just attempts at identifying manifestation.

[@ggrey5990]

His transparencies somehow encapsulate Penrose's playful brilliance

[@phumgwatenagala6606]

He is holding up the whole projector/transparency industry on his shoulders

[@T.R.A.I.N.I.N.G.]

we need to allow for a completely new philosophical paradigm for the good work of these guys to continue strongly.

[@erichodge567]

I was so happy to see Roger Penrose get the Nobel Prize. There is no more wide-ranging intellect than his in the world today.

[@schmetterling4477]

It's true that he deserved it, but it came a little too late. The Penrose who did all of that work is long gone.

[@bretnetherton9273]

Awareness is known by awareness alone.

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

To be conscious means to be aware of things that exist. In order to be aware of anything something must exist.

[@adityajnhs3816]

A question: whether the anesthesia is really turning-off the consciousness, or its just turning-off/dampening the tubules, thereby just restricting the `access' (of the consciousness) to trigger the neurons ? And the so called consciousness is very much intact..

[@piggypooo]

Like sleep mode on a pc? And dreams are the screen savers 🤣

[@SOSSTSE]

Great discussion. You are the creator of your own reality and destiny. Law of Attraction. My book is coming out soon.

[@fabslyrics]

Max Planck once said "I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness."

[@susanmaddison5947]

All consciousness and awareness of living things seems to include having a kind of "will", and, for humans at least, a sensation of its being "my" will and a "free" will. Whether it really is a free will is a separate question. If the Schroedinger probabilties are modified by a distinctive free nonphysical self, then it is a free will. If they are synchronized in a physically observable but Schroedinger-inexplicable way, then they are presumably evidence of a distinctive free nonphysical something that does this, and that feels itself to be a distinctive self Althought the distinctiveness could still be an optical illusion, or rather a sensation illusion; it could just be a local bit of a larger hive self or a universal self.

[@Kaydje]

I hope that more research into the nature of consciousness is done. I think it isn't studied as much as it should be, and I think that better understanding of it would be beneficial to civilization at large.

[@jararacavoadora5868]

Im skeptical because consciousness is so subjective

[@jararacavoadora5868]

It seems better to understand memory and other processes thay may produce what we call consciousness

[@Ai3b]

Consciousness, Mind and Thought, the 3 principles in life. Without one the other two would not exist

[@onseayu]

wow i love the way this guy thinks

[@br4jj4]

These two dudes might actually be on to something, how remarkable

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

they are but it has nothing to do with the phenomenon of consciousness studied by Cognitive Science.....

[@squamish4244]

@@nickolasgaspar9660 Yes, it is literally about consciousness.

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

@@squamish4244 not the mental states of our Brain studied and explained by Neuroscience.

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

@@squamish4244 to clarify. They are talking about Consciousness like philosophers in the past used to talk about combustion. In both cases, (combustion and Consciousness) they weren't interested in describing an observable causal mechanism, but a imaginary "overarching" substance. In the case of consciousness these guys use the same name, in the case of combustion the buzz word was Phlogiston. Our established scietific paradigm no longer assumes the existence of magical substances or realms. We learn from.out errors of the past and we keep science purely descriptive. Assuming alternative realms of reality or magical substances (without Objective evidence) can never be part of our Scientific approach!

[@padaudio6969]

@@nickolasgaspar9660 thats pure polemic. The problem is that the neuro science paradigm (which is not the modern science paradigm as such as you state) has a problem as it wouldnt exist without some things it cannot explain at all (but claims to do). Its more a kind of ideology one could say that forgot from where it came namely a speculative analogy (sic! no scientific method..) to computing machines which is deconstructed by one of its inventors itself, von Neumann in his later days. But it still generates a lot of funding money so better dont ask deeper questions... the computing machines that paradigm is deduced from is the turing machine which was the answer to gödel and the problem what „computable“ means then. So in his 1937 paper turing invented his machine model explicitely in opposition to and with the help from some kinda skill that logic machines cannot perform and that led him to the idea of his machine model. He called that skill „intuition“ by the way and penrose gave some similar examples when he showed that it is quite easy to find answers to (logics) questions only with a pen and a paper the most advanced computing machines of our days cannot solve at all. This suggests strongly that something is wrong there and that the real metaphysics lays on the field of that kind of paradigmatic (or should I say dogmatic?) neuro science as it is todays mainstream. Indeed I do not know any other natural science which can give so little precise answers or predictions or mechanisms about the field they claim to explain. A hand full of loose suppositions within decades of research thats it..

[@Atomrod]

What a marvellous lecture! Just one small technicality: at 4:27 it is a 50 move rule, not 30.

[@HeavygearDiver]

Quite so GM! I wonder if Dr. Penrose is any relation to our great Jonathan?

[@arandomguyontheinternet756]

@@HeavygearDiver he is his brother

[@KT-en8pq]

I have thoroughly enjoyed the work of Roger Penrose, Stuart Hameroff, and Anirban Bandyopadhyay. The condensed matter question was interesting. Why lattices structures?

[@theeleman]

I love this

[@tjejojyj]

Brilliant. Thank you for sharing. The need for a theory of quantum measurement that collapses the wave function is the central crisis of physics. (The many-worlds theory just restates the crisis in a different form) Listening to them was a privilege. It’s amazing to hear how they are applying the most advanced understanding of basic physics and neurophysiology to something so extraordinary as consciousness. I don’t know that they have the right answer but what they have put forward is more coherent and grounded than anything else I have come across. The only weak part for me was the chess game analogy. Surely the best chess AI could be presented with that game? Couldn’t Penrose have got this tested? I can’t see why an advanced chess algorithm will sacrifice the bishop since a losing position is worse than a draw. But Penrose is correct that we know things that aren’t computable with a Turing machine. AI has no answer for that. That doesn’t mean, however, that good AI systems won’t be superior to humans in many activities. Where AI is cheaper it will displace human labour as the logic of production for profit is our system of social organisation.

[@TS-hw7ro]

definitly!

[@senerzen]

About the chess example: He did mention that a sufficiently powerful chess program can see the draw. The reason chess programs of today sacrifice the bishop is to prevent the 30 move rule taking effect. He showed it as a simplified example to the difference between computation and understanding. A human can understand it is a draw by simply looking a bit for a few seconds. Yet a computer has to make long calculations to arrive at the same conclusion if it ever arrives at it.

[@0ptimal]

That last sentence is a worry no? In the long run won't most everything will be cheaper through ai? And those with the capability to utilize it will win, therefore be at the top of almost every industry? So won't every industry seek to eliminate as many humans as possible from the operating costs. So if those with ai (places we depend on for essential and non-essential products/services) are extracting money from consumers through the cheaper costs, or just total dominance of their marketplace, mostly eliminate having to pay the human worker, how will consumers get money back? Is our money taking a one way trip? Is optimizing for profits eventually leading to failure of the whole system? Or it's maximizing the imbalance of money and all the things it represents? Sorry if a stupid question. Haven't looked a lot but I haven't really heard many people talk about this, so suspecting/hoping I just don't understand something, or I'm being cynical. (Am I overestimating ai's/robots impact?)

[@hooshangsasanifar4643]

Does it make sense to say: Consciousness or awareness is the response of an agent to the environment (constraint)it is in. In quantum mechanics the response to the constraints are quantified by applying boundary conditions to the wave function. Behavior of the agent in its environment is manifested by the selections of its wave function following the boundary conditions. This starts from most basic agent in nature such as elementary particles. Therefore, consciousness is expected to have a nonzero ground state. More complex systems are expected to have higher levels of the consciousness than the ground states.

[@alanmalcheski8882]

Of course it makes sense, you're suggesting that consciousness is a local phenomena, inherent in space and inanimate matter as well as complex biological creatures. It is just not a popular idea. Neither is the idea that space has density and is connected to a system of limitless energy. Do you think DNA all looks so similar only because it is all evolved from one kind to another? That is a popular idea. Not the correct idea, but very popular.

[@deborahdean8867]

Not really because all you're talking about is manifestation of conciousness. Right? I get you're saying conciousness arises spontaneously from wave forms and forces, but all you're doing is measuring manifestations of Qantas, etc. So you're defining conciousness as a spontaneously occurring awareness? Is understanding part of the ability to calculate? Or how does understanding relate to the as ability to calculate?

[@Mecagothits]

Consciousness

[@Dan-jn2zq]

A peaceful sense of satisfaction and joy to get a peek into the mind of our higher consciousness manifesting into space time but my bet is .. originating from hyper space. Life itself, an expression of the intelligence - read organised data processing of spending that resides beyond space-time and yet totally computable to create the reality we all know.

[@Mac13587]

.. Just thinks.. "Doesn't think of course". What a way to portray the difference between computation and the Human Brain.

[@peregrineweal]

I also hope that people from PBS SPACE TIME MADE IT OVER HERE!

[@Hansulf]

Well, they did

[@PrivateSi]

Why, they're mostly all very stupid shallow sci-sheep that just want to make crap science 'jokes' for attention and up-votes.. Try having an intelligent conversation / argument with them and you'll see most have poor critical thinking skills, poor logic, poor maths, poor knowledge.. This sci-waffle (or maths waffle) is probably the kind of boring crap they like wafting through their brainwashed, dumbed-down, libtarded minds... Sci-Show is just as bad... The Channel is better than their youtube commenters, by a long, long way.. I'd be embarrassed to have them commenting on my channel if I ran a science channel... MUPPET COMEDIAN WANNABES!

[@harrisonellery-mclean7926]

@@PrivateSi are you okay? (for real lmk if you need a hug)

[@monkieassasin]

@@PrivateSi So, you watch a video detailing how consciousness arises from quantum mechanics, which has the strong implications that all consciousness in the universe is connected or even 1, and with that newfound knowledge, you choose to harbor bitterness in your heart? Interesting.

[@jdkingsley6543]

Consciousness is quantum, not sure why it took us so long to realize this. It makes so much sense.

[@jays3526]

What do you mean by "quantum"?

[@jdkingsley6543]

@@jays3526 its a quantum process.

[@jays3526]

@@jdkingsley6543 So you're speaking in a metaphorical sense? Because "process" isn't what comes to mind when I recall my studies of quantum physics.

[@jdkingsley6543]

@@jays3526 we know little.

[@jays3526]

@@jdkingsley6543 who is "we"? lol

[@troyberecz707]

Fascinating.

[@jacquelyndiamond3301]

I am a follower of Tom Campbell but I do see parallels within this research, that is truly compelling. Campbell states that this experience we call life may actually be a soul training entropy reductor!

[@jostanton4445]

Love Penrose he's a real genius,

[@frankdimeglio8216]

Compare Penrose to DiMeglio. He is political. He's weak. WHY ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS UNIFIED AND BALANCED WITH/AS WHAT IS GRAVITY: Gravity AND ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY are LINKED AND BALANCED opposites, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Therefore, Einstein's equations and Maxwell's equations are unified (given the addition of a fourth spatial dimension); AS E=mc2 is DIRECTLY and fundamentally derived from F=ma; AS TIME DILATION proves that electromagnetism/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. ACCORDINGLY, Einstein's equations predict that SPACE is expanding OR contracting in and with TIME; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. GREAT !!! (Very importantly, outer "space" involves full inertia; AND it is fully invisible AND black.) Gravity/acceleration involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Accordingly, the rotation of the Moon MATCHES it's revolution. "Mass"/ENERGY involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE consistent WITH/as what is BALANCED electromagnetic/gravitational force/ENERGY, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Accordingly, objects fall at the SAME RATE (neglecting air resistance, of course); AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY. A PHOTON may be placed at the center of what is THE SUN (as A POINT, of course), AS the reduction of SPACE is offset by (or BALANCED with) the speed of light; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Energy has/involves GRAVITY, AND ENERGY has/involves inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE. THE SUN purely exemplifies time DILATION. INSTANTANEITY is FUNDAMENTAL. Time DILATION proves that electromagnetism/ENERGY IS GRAVITY, AS E=mc2 is DIRECTLY and fundamentally derived from F=ma. "Mass"/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity/acceleration involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. GREAT !!! The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. Let's compare this directly with BOTH a falling object AND the speed of light (c). Great. E=mc2 IS F=ma. Gravity/acceleration involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. GRAVITATIONAL force/ENERGY IS proportional to (or BALANCED with/as) inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY. This NECESSARILY represents, INVOLVES, AND describes what is possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE. Time DILATION proves that electromagnetism/ENERGY IS GRAVITY, AS E=mc2 is DIRECTLY and fundamentally derived from F=ma. INSTANTANEITY is FUNDAMENTAL to the FULL and proper understanding of physics/physical experience. Ultimately and truly, TIME is possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. The ultimate unification of physics/physical experience combines, BALANCES, AND includes opposites, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. GREAT. It ALL makes perfect sense. THINK !!! The Earth that undergoes time DILATION IS thus represented (ON BALANCE) as what is A POINT in the night sky, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. (So, notice that the BLUE SKY IS no longer visible. Think.) E=mc2 IS F=ma. It is FULLY proven. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY. ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Alas, the INTEGRATED EXTENSIVENESS of THOUGHT (AND description) is improved in the truly superior mind. I have truly, CLEARLY, AND MATHEMATICALLY unified physics/physical experience. OVERLAY what is THE EYE in BALANCED RELATION to/WITH what is THE EARTH. (Notice the black space of THE EYE, AND the DOME of a person's eye is ALSO visible.) THE EARTH is ALSO blue. Again, E=mc2 IS F=ma. The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. Time dilation proves that E=mc2 is DIRECTLY and fundamentally derived from F=ma, AS electromagnetism/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. It ALL makes perfect sense. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY. ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. BALANCE AND completeness go hand in hand. By Frank DiMeglio

[@Slywolf1992]

This is such a big deal.

[@YoutubeSupportServices]

Consciousness; The amassed perpetual resonance of each unique spark...

[@krypton9984]

Roger Penrose is incredible. I have to say, of course, so is Stuart Hameroff. How a guy like Roger can bridge to this world and facilitate this step is beyond me. I think he has something though - remarkably, both physics and maths (OMG) are unable to make the next step because they are dependant upon how human consciousness works.

[@LightBringer666]

it's sort of interesting how the dipole oscillations have a common mode peak around the blue light region, which is the color of the sky during the day, i wonder if we might find structural difference between diurnal and nocturnal animals that points us to that kind of resonant frequency not being present in nocturnal creatures.

[@workingTchr]

But what IS IT in the space-time substrate that micro tubules can interact WITH to produce consciousness? Universal consciousness?

[@samrowbotham8914]

Consciousness is the primary creator as its all a big dream these people Penrose et al have everything back to front: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rGO7pKNqe7eal9U

[@helenbostock2350]

Unfortunately great work

[@Mecagothits]

This is a good video

[@kokomanation]

I once used this chess position in a chess application and the computer crushed

[@lalitdas6369]

I admire Sir Roger Penrose. Human capacity is immense but it dwindles to almost nothing when we fill our selves with hate and ill will. Our Hinduism & yoga shastras have repeatedly advised us so. But our present many national do not think so.

[@brendawilliams8062]

I love the tiling

[@taihungau8696]

Amazing

[@dugmartsch]

8 minutes in and I'm watching a 20 minute explainer of a slide. This might take a while. Also could we purchase Dr. Penrose a clip-on microphone? :)

[@TS-hw7ro]

YES

[@vollygirl786]

Quantum geliciousness is inside Pi-Stock, proteins and especially microtubules, extending the full length all the way around "so life may turn out to be a Quantum System" -Dr. Stuart Hameroff lolol lol lolll !!

[@lordemed1]

Dr. Hameroff is surprisingly clear and accessible in his explanations.

[@fluentpiffle]

'Consciousness' is the evolving faculty of thinking. In thinking about thoughts, 'consciousness' becomes more acutely aware of itself. This in itself is how we can determine its necessarily emergent nature.. In other creatures we can see the actions brought about by thoughts. We can observe the process and deduce the necessities of the situation. In Humans, the process has simply moved on to another stage, the 'thinking about thoughts', which we call 'consciousness'..

[@brendawilliams8062]

I agree with the professor Sir Penrose.