Was "national shutdown" justified? | Apartheid's legacy, privatisation debate, law & media in SA

[@kg_zovias423]

Yo Siz we need Jamie back again for atleast 2 hours. Thanks for the conversation gents. Very informative.

[@nkazimulobuthelezi7556]

Thanks for this conversation gents!!

[@terrencemkhululigxamza2472]

Brilliant conversation as usual..👌🏾

[@hlatse98]

How I love Jamie!!! He is an outstanding critical thinker who knows how to disseminate his thoughts with great clarity and intricacy. I find him wildly entertaining on Twitter too 😂. This was a great chat, gentlemen. Well done on striking while it’s still hot, Sizwe! Definitely sharing this far and wide.

[@_SMWX]

🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽

[@khunilopac4046]

👌👌👌👌👌

[@lungamabuza5079]

Fun fact about Jamie; He's a former African Debate Champion. Tough as nails.

[@presh804]

The dynamic you two have is great! You should do this more often together

[@_SMWX]

🙌🏽

[@paul7505]

We are watching, gentlemen. Keep up the good work.

[@_SMWX]

🙌🏽

[@mbasamvenene443]

I particularly found the discussion on privatization (extractivism and grand political corruption) thought provoking and stimulating! The guest is very sharp! His analysis is very incisive.

[@_SMWX]

👍🏽

[@ngakeelias969]

Might Jamie is very objective, favorite Analyst

[@_SMWX]

👍🏽

[@sinethembazena1809]

Jamie is the chosen one n nawe Sizwe fethu you doing your part! Bring him back for direct law n politics!

[@desmunemo444]

What a discussion!!! Thank you gentlemen. My view: South African politics is gradually entering a new dangerous space of no return. National shutdown, poor service delivery,army deployment, police brutality. If gvt continues to stretch the law & test the boundaries of the constitution, this can only result in 1 outcome, Zimbabwe.

[@kagisolekalakala7437]

The youth … the young …. Educated ….Excellent

[@_SMWX]

🙌🏽

[@jjwhitlaw]

I am a Zimbabwean based in Belgium and I follow South African politics religiously and this guy on twitter. I like his thoughts but was a bit skeptical about watching him for over an hour. Was pleasantly surprised how fast the hour went. Interesting conversation and maybe Sizwe in future you should ask all your guests before hand to recommend about three books to your viewers. Thank you Jamie for your book recommendations and the conversation. I endorse the book Why Nations Fail , read it and loved it.

[@UhuruUhuru]

My pleasure. I am happy you enjoyed the discussion.

[@bonginkosimunyai1153]

@@UhuruUhuru you laid it down properly

[@Blackmoses2]

Beautifully done.Bring this man back again.

[@lloydmpofu4359]

Thanks for Inviting this guy he leaves no stone unturned and he doesn't take any sides he tells it like it is.

[@shafiyaalgiquadra1105]

Excellent guest and host, please bring him on again!!🥰 And yes to a wider discussion on politics and law please.

[@_SMWX]

We definitely need that!

[@hemphillmatyeka2487]

We definitely need an episode on law and politics. Thanks for the insightful discussion. Loved this episode guys!

[@_SMWX]

Yeees!

[@owethumbambo1465]

An absolute pleasure listening to this conversation. It feels like we need an encore to explore all the other issues arising. You two feed off each other very well too.

[@_SMWX]

🙌🏽🙌🏽

[@mbalingcobo6409]

Journalism without bias is a woow.🙏🙏

[@_SMWX]

🙌🏽

[@mbalingcobo6409]

@@_SMWX please kindly share the title of the books

[@Barc112]

FINALLY! I've known both these homeys for years. Happy to see this collaboration!

[@_SMWX]

Nice one bro. 🙌🏽

[@UhuruUhuru]

You need to do a sit down with Sizwe Bandile. You are a powerful thinker and your view needs to be heard.

[@malapanekthamaga4781]

Mighti Jamie is a jam!! We need to see more of him on your platform. I just love how he was able to delve deep from the get go. He does not need to be heated first🤣🤣 Power to you brothers!!

[@masemolampho7564]

Thanks for bringing Jamie... Wise conversation

[@Tizza.21]

One of the best interview i hv ever listened to,informative without even making an effort.

[@LifeLately_Abroad]

Thought provoking conversation, very relevant and key points brought on this discussion and I share the same sentiments. There’s a long way to go but the progress is showing, I’m a beneficiary of the changes that have been implemented post apartheid.

[@sellodancanleboho1069]

Your guest is well-informed and gives informed opinions at all times. I hope the fake news media doesn’t hire him and capture his brilliant mind one of these days. We need parallel narratives like his

[@oratile7205]

Excellent discussion, very informative

[@mzansifootball585]

You never disappoint on a good conversations with insightful information ! Thanks for spreading the fire of knowledge & Truth.

[@stellika89]

Fantastic interview as always!👏

[@davidscrooby2461]

I like Jamie. Teach us to articulate the means of production, which due to state repression and coercion, reproduces itself and the inequality of our society remains

[@mathapelomolete5430]

This interview with Jamie is so interesting and eye-opening, I enjoyed it. Big ups to you Sizwe👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾 keep up the great work man.

[@_SMWX]

👊🏽

[@tsheponcamane2018]

This brother is a great thinker, I wish he posted more on his social media platforms I want to support him.

[@lefakele5350]

I’m game for the expansion of the legal conversation. Very interesting

[@clementmabunda3131]

Mighti... Class of 2017.

[@romalouis1]

Law and politics chat please. This was really informative. Well done gents🙌🏾

[@waltermathonsi76]

Wow,what a thought provoking discussion, we need these kind of educational discussions often in our discourse. Guys keep up this great work. There must be a part two of this.

[@_SMWX]

🙌🏽

[@veekay6225]

There should be in-house lawyers in media houses whose primary mandate is to conduct checks and balances on these issues…the question should be whether they (legal) get to review journalistic pieces before publication

[@_SMWX]

True

[@zmakhumalo2926]

Thank you for this great discussion.

[@s.s.nxumalo]

Thanks for the insightful guests.

[@_SMWX]

🙌🏽

[@colourinmyrainbow]

Super grateful for this intro to another South African thinker and truthteller. 🙏 Have subscribed to his channel. 🙏

[@nandipenxa3274]

I didn't think I was gonna this chat this much! Such wisdom, and ability to articulate unpopular views and nuances. Loved this. Will share and get those books. Ayeye!

[@_SMWX]

Thanks!

[@tlatjo]

It has been really great watching you two grow into the critical and clear thinkers and political commentators you are today. We really need to have and see this kind of thought provoking conversations more. I believe the hunger for such is growing.

[@cwenga8250]

Some great minds and a provokative conversation and thinking, keep it going fellas🙌🙌

[@peacemakermthembu2824]

Thank you Sizwe , you always bring best expects and deep thinkers on your show. I still looking forward to interview with Tshepo Kgadima energy expect.👏

[@pumlanichayilnewmbane4571]

This guy is loaded!! Good points guys.

[@lungamasuku6872]

Well said Jamie❤❤❤❤great show!!!❤❤❤

[@_SMWX]

Thanks!

[@RETforever537]

I like how easy, but intellectual the discussion was. It was very relevant to everything happening. I've also long stopped watching mainstream media, because of you and other people's podcasts, on SA matters. KEEP IT UP.🎉

[@_SMWX]

👊🏽

[@RETforever537]

Sharp😁😁

[@UhuruUhuru]

I think the host gets all the credit.

[@shwabade123]

Thank you for this, you guys are making a lot of sense.

[@_SMWX]

Thanks.

[@ananias2580]

I’m loving the conversation and analysis here🔥🔥🔥

[@_SMWX]

🙌🏽

[@minanawe]

Fantastic interview as usual! UJamie uyaqiqa mhan!

[@goffmcpaper6981]

This is a textbook conversation but then again with our criminally low literacy levels, it’s necessary. 😢

[@gags-villsounds5351]

That law and politics is needed

[@lindelwampilwenhledlamini6348]

Low key would love to see such content live in a theatre settinf, with an hour long QnA session. Normalize thought exchange in our society and make it accessible because wow, as a society we're starved for intellectual discourse.

[@reabetswephora1347]

This was very insightful and so far the best interview 👍. We need more critical thinkers and people who give fair analysis. Please don't bring the likes of Penuel. Thanks for the show😊

[@_SMWX]

🙌🏽

[@mphotheapologeticsguy2685]

Great mind big ups boet

[@siyabongabosigo3026]

Mind blowing complied with patriotic submission yet robust

[@M_Zondi]

Great conversation here

[@vusimkhabela5670]

Please reserve at least 2 hrs minimum for interviews with people like Mightie Jamie and Adv. Muzi Sikhakhane...or better yet, please invite them both for a 2 hrs interview and have a round table discussion on the current state of 3 arms of state.

[@KasiTvForKasiTribe]

Powerful interview 🙌🏿

[@kennethtlobatla3016]

What I like about both of you is the fact that you are independent and objective on your political analysis, even when you critize my Eff , I know is objective and I can take it.

[@_SMWX]

🙌🏽

[@thobilenyaku5274]

Great show

[@nkokhelime9086]

Privatization is not the panacea of social ills. Privately owned companies are failing on a daily basis. Ownership is immaterial. What is critical is the quality leadership that runs public and private institutions.

[@_SMWX]

Agreed.

[@UhuruUhuru]

Absolutely.

[@shafiyaalgiquadra1105]

It is difficult to change a recalcitrant system, but it is ever more difficult if you aren't even trying.

[@khakambandazayo7729]

Great episode 💪. Please get Joel Modiri on the show

[@JayJay-mx7oc]

Well done smwx

[@draycoeternal2876]

I love this guy Jamie 🙌🏾 Groot muhn eShup🦾

[@_SMWX]

🙌🏽

[@mphomofokeng871]

Aaah Sizwe bro, you doing so much in teaching and opening our minds, ease please make the interviews/conversations longer. Roll on that David Mashabela tip. 2-3 hours discussions, you can even break it up parts. Conversations are always intriguing and educational therefore deserve more time. Maybe you can edit some for M&G then full thing for youtubers to indulge. I for one is will to sit through 2 hours of this typ-a content.🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾 Stay Blessed my brother keep on shining your light!

[@andilendlovu5447]

37:44 though I understand that the language the EFF have committed themselves to is not very relatable to the average South African, I think that for them to outright abandon the ideologies coming out of those named authors and political figures would be equivalent to the end of the EFF. The only reason these seem old and irrelevant is more to do with suppression of the material in the education system and that we’ve been in this Capitalist era for the longest time and thinking outside of that framework then feels rather alienating. But Alienation is exactly what the EFF is trying to address. I think as the basis of their ideology gets more familiar, the more their language will seem relevant. But they will need to get their members to read more coz half of them don’t really understand what they’re saying sometimes 😅

[@Cosmic_Hobo]

The balance Jamie speaks of is very much needed but I feel he wrongly assumes that the media fraternity want to provide balanced reporting as opposed to being a propaganda mechanism for the interests they represent. The only way I see any semblance of balance happening is if a different set of interests in opposition to the mainstream, fund and propagate news that provides alternative views. We can see this represented quite well in the USA where the façade of neutrality in the media has long been ditched and media outlets funded by opposing interests provide opposing views.

[@Jitesh_Dayal]

Our problem is the ANC. They ran national government for 30 years. Their incompetence and corruption is the problem in South Africa.

[@ipostsongs5305]

just tuned in, i love mighti jamie.

[@_SMWX]

🙌🏽

[@mbalingcobo6409]

Me too

[@pfanomukhodobwane1666]

Corruption in the private sector is not broadcasted in the media

[@_SMWX]

True. Not enough anyway.

[@patrickbrianpereira7974]

On the subject of robust journalism Mnumzane , are you suggesting Pauli van Wyks reporting on the VBS scandal , is the subject of a vivid imagination .

[@cody_dbn]

The analysis of the 2016-2019 era of the DA - including Maimane, De Lille and Mashaba, amongst numerous others is an often overlooked point that I couldn’t agree with more on. In fact, the DA under Zille’s leadership between 2009 until 2014, continuing into Maimane’s reign supported policies like BEE which they have now conveniently and hypocritically abandoned. The DA was actively pursuing a centre-left agenda which I believe is in line with the political views of most South Africans. Ultimately, the party miscalculated the results of the 2019 Election and are losing a lot of support currently to the PA and ActionSA because of it. In regards to the EFF, a lot of the anxiety leading up to the National Shutdown came following the July 2021 unrest. Seeing how the looting and burning of businesses across KZN is still affecting small businesses rebuilding particularly in Durban I believe it caused some justifiable fear. I think this fear comes mostly from the rhetoric of EFF leaders more than anything. I don’t see the EFF growing much in 2024, the turnout for the shutdown itself was underwhelming which surprised me. What’s not discussed is the impact of the undocumented immigration issue in South Africa. There’s many voters who disagree with the EFF’s ‘open border’ policy for Africans and I think this issue in particular is limiting their reach. Movements like Operation Dudula may be quiet currently, but that ideology doesn’t just disappear. This is exemplified through figures like Nhlanhla Lux - who represent a segment of the black population who do not hold Marxist views - who conveniently had an alleged incident with the EFF on the day of the shutdown. Again, might I say observe the growth of the PA and ActionSA who are campaigning on hardline immigration policies.

[@kgaugelomarule4719]

Great interview ❤

[@RETforever537]

You guys are the BEST 🎉🎉🎉😂😅

[@timbergalore5470]

Sizwe where do you get all these brilliant minds . I was glued to my fone listning and you guys comforted me that at least the future is bright some body will take struggle ti the next level

[@_SMWX]

There are so many in SA. We just don’t give them a big enough platform!

[@timbergalore5470]

I believe but the status qou sometimes worry especially.reality on the ground.we grew.up.at the height of apartheid and we were thank full after 94 only to realize we were sold.a dummy got us worried about the futue

[@Cosmic_Hobo]

You should consider doing a SMW Shorts, for the short form platforms like Twitter and Meta

[@muvhusiningimmbara]

This reminds me of the 2000s panel shows with live audiences in South Africa. Yeyyi they'd get heated in those rooms lol

[@optimus3389]

Awesome work gents❤

[@vulcomining7307]

Very interesting fellow that guest

[@dima309]

Thanks!

[@_SMWX]

🙌🏽

[@stepmaster9988]

Didn't think about this collab but its an inspired one. Totally we agree we all need to think more deeply about state power, policy and incentives and not just public spectables because theyre not adequate for seeing structural change. Also exhorting again to read and observe more Africa and Asian commentators whove been documenting these issues and pathways to success because there's nothing we are facing here on the Continent that's not been faced and even overcome by black and brown people emerging from colonialism, imperialism and slavery in the Caribbean, as well as South and East Asia

[@_SMWX]

Very true on the global examples.

[@siyabongatshabalala9710]

Let's go! 😊

[@_SMWX]

Ayeye!

[@TheGiganticIntellect]

I have been crying to dj Sbu and penuel to bring this great intellect 💪I love Jamie 👌in the next interview may kindly ask him about his Zimbabwe roots, how he grew up and his time at wits

[@_SMWX]

👍🏽

[@ELIGIUS626]

Becareful of Penual something is not right with that guy, but wait, I'm expecting something else about him

[@sibusisoskosana6379]

We need more

[@busisiwecourtneyphungwayo7834]

Loving the comparison between running & cycling races and protesting. Maybe what the march leaders need to do going forward is to set out a route and communicate on which roads will be closed on that day. Then everyone will know which roads or routes to avoid. I think the thing that makes marches to be successful and this is with the history of S.A, is the intimidation and fear that a protest brings to the citizens which is different to a race.

[@shafiyaalgiquadra1105]

Isn't the problem with softening EFF rhetoric and policy that we then risk falling into a social democracy in which capital still holds outsize influence and can easily erode the social concessions by withholding capital or imposing hiring moratoriums to strongarm the government?

[@thabisomacatsha9295]

Sharp Minds.

[@siyabulelamokebe6245]

My role models in the same space-time deliberating on serious matters😀😀😀😀😀.

[@_SMWX]

🙏🏽

[@nkululekomuthwa4617]

Can you please try to get hold of Mzwakhe Mbuli

[@KhwezilomsoD]

👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@_SMWX]

🙌🏽

[@mthokozisilanga4497]

There are two questions to consider when one considers the shutdown: 1. Was it for the people or for the EFF? 2. Will it change the plight of our poor people? Malema has read the game very well, he has positioned himself as a better opposition for the 2024 National Elections. However, he is eyeing to be on coalition with the ANC under Mashatile, and has already tested the coalition waters with the ANC in municipality. The ANC is wounded and it needs a partner for the coalition should it not win, and prefarable it should not be the DA nor the EFF, however, it might not make it without one of the two, which in this case it will prefare the EFF rather than the DA. This then will put the EFF in a very compromised position as it had stated that it will not work with the ANC because it is corrupt, that was the statement it made when giving the Jobourg votes to the DA. Right now it has changed its tune against the DA, claiming it will not work the DA because it is racist. The question then is; was the DA not racist when the EFF donated its votes to it in the Joburg and Tshwane municipalities? Is the ANC no longer corrupt now that the EFF is in caolition with it in some of the municipalities? This shutdown was for the EFF and not for the people, and it is now leading in pre- election campaign for 2024. Strikes and demonstrations do not work in our country, they do not change a thing, at least permanently, we had thousands of service delivery protests which most of them led to nothing. Ramaphosa will remain in power until the day the ANC kicks him out for the new employer, ie Mashatile, no loyalty and no principle, its all about positions and tenders. This is what the ANC did with Mbeki and Zuma, though Ramaphosa may leave quitely should the ANC realize that he is a real liability, not to say that Mashitile will do anything tangible to change the trajectory of the ANC culture. This shutdown, like any riots and demonstrations has not given power back to the people, it continues the dangerous African political culture of heroworshipping the political leadership and its political party, exactly the problem we had in 1990’s. The majority of the masses were never concerned about what was negotiated in CODESA, all they were happy about was seeing their ANC winning the 1994 Elections which only brought civil rights and not real political rights. The very same EFF leadership was the victim of heroworshipping the ANC leadership and were blind for decades until they were chased away from the party(if they really regained their political eyesight). The power must be transfered to the people, the real political party that has the interests of our people will get rid of heroworshipping leadership and transfare the power to the citizens. Instead of telling us the citizens what we want, it will consult and even consider all different views, instead of implementing political dictatorship of a party through a strongman who runs a party. So this was the EFF victory, not the people’s victory.

[@kaizerpursuits7086]

💯

[@_SMWX]

An interesting perspective.

[@skumula]

Critiquing the eff on their stands or efforts and not giving alternative ways is not really helping the course. I say at least they are better positioning themselves to have influence on the future of the country. Like the anc were positioning themselves before 1994.

[@mthokozisilanga4497]

@@skumula There are altenatives, however, people are are not open minded. For anyone to be able to see the alternative they need to know the facts and the reason why we are here. The ANC did not position itself in 1994, it was positioned already as the prefared party long before that, by the owners of South Africa(Anglo-Americans). The negotiations were not pushed by the ANC and the NP,it was the Anglo-Americans, seeing the looming danger of the revolution that was unfolding and they knew that if they do not create a false independence, they stood a chance of loosing their investments which included the minerals they were getting so cheap, raping our country in order to maintain their western “civilization”.

[@Mahleamantungwa0212]

yes you should law and politics

[@_SMWX]

🙏🏽

[@KasiTvForKasiTribe]

Law and Politics chat 😁🙏🏿🙌🏿

[@Mzansi_remedialChannel]

Sizwe please invite President Malema or DP Floyd Shivambu 🙏

[@MrMathebula]

Iyhoo guys topics covered wow @ my brother I am currently unemployed kindly please donate your book 🙏🙏🙏 would like to it.

[@realdudevision2746]

27:04 No one thinks only whites can manage things well. But if only blacks can manage at all costs.. we will pay all costs. Knowledge/ability does not pick a race or gender. It rests in the minds of whoever it is in. If we exclude it on the lines of race, tribes, politics or gender we will lose its benefits.

[@BafanaButhelezi-vh7zs]

AMAZING

[@xolisangcengedizzyworld]

For me this question depends on where you stand. I like what Jamie says about political analysts not giving us a broader view of issues but only one perspective. Anyway Sandile Swana sums it up nicely that political analysts analyze issues having their next cheque in mind. Not sure about Fanon, Sankara etc views being outdated in 2023. Sankara says " You cannot carry out fundamental change without a certain amount of madness...madness comes from non conformity, the courage to turn your back on old formulas, the courage to invent the future." For me this is exactly the kind of a leader we need right now, so please gentlemen, what is outdated about that🙂?

[@_SMWX]

Not so much that the view is outdated. I think the language is outdated. I think we need to find new ways of applying these principles to the 21st century SA context, rather than just falling back on these familiar phrases and names.

[@moafrikapartners]

Great session u guys. It's really refreshing to hear the youth of this beautiful country engage on current affairs like this. However I have to point out that u both sound biased when analyzing the DA and the EFF lol , your opinions about the EFF seem fair and objective as opposed to the ones u have about the DA.