Skoda Enyaq/VW ID5 overheating when fast charging

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[@Stiggy767]

Thank you. You don't get this level of detail on other channels!

[@JohnJonas12345]

Most people don't turn off their HVAC when charging if they wait in the car. Many people doesn't know this even so a charging session when it's hot outside with HVAC on would be interesting to see

[@zale76]

I don't know what if the time speed of those 3 charging is the same, but to 80% SOC it made just 2% difference. Most people would not that noticed while charging.

[@ahuca117]

That "AC compressor power consumption" number is still staggering. Imagine if you chart the battery charging power and the compressor power in the same graph, it will clearly show that you'll be paying a lot more for temperature management (%-wise) than most other EVs. Also the more you charge, in 1 session, the worse it gets because the battery charging power drops but the compressor uses even more power in the end, at time even reaching 1-6 ratio. So I agree with Björn that it's likely more efficient to charge only to around 50% and let the battery cool down during the next leg, in such a hot weather

[@sacharanc]

What will happen now in france with the all day above 40 degrees ;-) that will be a good reason to come and visit ;-) hot temperatures check

[@eirik500]

Great work, this level of technical analysis is needed and you are the only one doing it. Keep it up! Would love to see a 30 C+ repeat charging test on Y/3 and Kia/Hyundai.

[@basedw]

I can't quite Imagine turning off the ac in 35°C+. Škoda / Vag need to fix this. Unacceptable in warmer climates.

[@marcohillenga5068]

The AC compressor can receive a maximum of 5.5kW input, and in the winter it can generate 15 kW of cooling power, around 10/11 in the summer. But the consumption is maximum 5.5 kW. The value you see in CarScanner is the total cooling power the AC generates. Yes, it has around 10kw difference in charging vs. what is stored as capacity. This is due to Ohmic loss, the battery that weights 350kg in cell weight is still heating up from 30 to 50 degrees Celsius, which is a lot of losses if you think about it. Tesla also has these losses, but that battery has heating scavenging which the MEB cars unfortunately don’t have, still wondering why they haven’t implemented that at VAG.

[@girogiacomo]

I think that it is an issue because it rapidgates even when you turn off the HVAC, maybe it would be nice to know how long it takes with HVAC on with this ambient temperature

[@dixikloos5352]

Great info, I only was missing a time counter😥 how long to 50, 70, 80 and 90%?

[@EugeneHoochie]

Thanks, great test and a lot of valuable information! Hope one day to have explicit choice of the max charging power together with max soc (or max battery temp for geeks 😂), just like quiet mode on bimmer 🚗

[@EV.Furkan]

happens same on the ID.4 /w 77kwh battery / RWD with the new 2.4 update. VW updated the BMS and yes its pulling 10kw from the charger EXTRA before it goes into the battery. have the same test between a 2.1 and 2.4 car if you want to check. And this all while charging with 125kW. [check 44%]

[@EV_OBD]

ID.Furkan - I think your last - well documented - video shows it pulls extra 5kW for cooling (not 10 kW).

[@EV.Furkan]

​@@EV_OBD it was cooler that evening, but 5h earlier [see insta/twitter] i was charging with 132 kW. which is still 6 kW for AC and/or charger cooling as best case scenario if battery was taken in 126 kW. Will wait for an hot day and redo the charge again, with more data to be shown.

[@OlavAlexanderMjelde]

With such huge temp differences, it might also mean that some cells will wear quicker than other.

[@sphinx2k210]

Nice further explanation. I guess the click-bait style thumbnails/video titles can get people offside pretty quickly.

[@brandenflasch]

10kW is a lot, but seems entirely plausible contrary to what a lot of people are saying.

[@Bazs]

you know the moment, when you get the feeling: "it's a good video, i'll give a thumbs up"... I got this feeling at least 20-30 times during this video

[@tymanot]

Thanks for another Ninja video. Although I have to say that i do not care If a charging session takes Like 5 minutes longer or not...

[@danielpenov]

Two things that are strange. The 10kw used for AC does not seem normal for any AC unit of that size. My experience is that the power for cooling is less than the power of heating. Does the heater go to 10kw in the winter? The second is that even though the inlet is in the low tens the battery does not cool that great which could be some design flaw i. e. too much restriction in the cooling passages.

[@davidbelecci6970]

It’s not 10KW, it’s a fluke, in software it reports as x2 somehow. All VW compressors are 5kW max peak, Tesla is about 5kW as well. A 5kW AC has 20kW of heat moving capacity. 10KW AC compressor would be enormous and could not fit in the car.

[@danielpenov]

@@davidbelecci6970 I agree. 10 kw does not look like the real value.

[@filmowanie-pasja.4284]

In any case, the temperature of the battery exceeds 50 degrees. We can find information that the maximum temperature of li-on is 45 degrees. Higher temperature accelerates degradation. So Enyaq should not be charged with more than 75-100 kW??

[@bmw335iperformance5]

Ich liebe deine Videos. Einfach nur ein Vergnügen sie zu schauen! Gerne mehr davon. Viele Grüße aus Germany!

[@gstaios]

Hi, is there the same problem with BMW i4? I live in Greece where we get 40 degrees easily and this could be a problem during the summer as i am thinking of buying the i4. Thanks

[@allisterbullock213]

Nice and clear reasoning on why you should try to keep temperature variations across the cells to a minimum. My electronic engineering persona enjoyed it, top class video. Please keep making these videos explaining odd occurrences, it educates so many people.

[@BerraLilltroll]

The ac can thus take the same amount if energy as it takes to heat my house.

[@850bimmer]

I guess when the rapid gate happened you have a sudden drop, but it keeps the lower charge steady, as the red graph stays "flat", while the blue is in constant decline, hence why it catches up. I noticed that at there was a peak difference of 2% charge, but then it started catching up because the graph stays flat. Had the blue graph also had a similar flat spot at the same part, the difference would have been significantly different.

[@BobH809]

Hey Bjorn, how is mini-Bjorn doing? He looks so much like you.

[@bjornnyland]

*she

[@BobH809]

@@bjornnyland Oops! My apologies Bjorn. A famous sound from Homer Simpson escaped my lips when I read that. DOH! She looks great, and healthy too. You must be very proud. I was never lucky to have a girl in the family, with three boys, except for my step daughter, and she's great, turning 37 this year. So much potential in such a little package. 😊👍

[@60plus01]

Not big in time. But you have to pay for that energy for cooling.

[@timberthewolf733]

Wonder if this will wear out the AC compressor faster than other cars?

[@ram64man]

It doesn’t matter if your charge hopping most people look at this data for real world to 80 or 90%

[@voelkela]

Looks like a solid technical analysis. 👍

[@hvicenteioux]

did anyone calculate the efficiency (or the inefficiency) of the power expended by the charger vs power charged into the battery? 10kw on the AC to cooldown the battery in a fast charge must have a big impact on the efficiency of a ev if every charge session is a fast one. One more reason to slow charge (everytime you can...)

[@tubeonmobil]

A you testing the fat Skoda enyaq with software 3.0 to compare the coupé against the fat

[@SirHackaL0t.]

It’s not that bad. Lol. You sound very British with that statement. 🤣 Tis but a flesh wound.

[@Rothammel1]

10kW compressor power is 20kW cooling power and this is more than I expected

The air to water heat pump in my house has max power consumption of 4kW and it is roughly 10 times the size of a car heat pump so I think there is some error in the data

[@michalvaner3167]

I think this is because that pump in your house can be made significantly more efficient exactly _because_ it can afford to be 10 times bigger. Furthermore, heat loses of the whole house are probably comparable to the amount of heat generated while fast charging ‒ if there's 10% loss on charging in the battery (I don't know the numbers, but it might), then at 150kW rate you're generating 15kW of heat that you need to get rid through the quite small radiator.

@@michalvaner3167 could be some truth in that but the app supposedly show power consumption of AC unit not heat/cooling power. 10kW seems more like figures from heating a car without heat pump

[@michalvaner3167]

@ My point was, you need a small temperature delta to get the heat (traveling in whatever direction) through a huge radiator, but much bigger delta to get it through small one. To make a big delta (on both sides - in the battery and on the radiator), the heat pump must overcome much bigger temperature potential. If you design the house heating system for a heat pump, you put big radiators inside the house (or floor heating), big radiator outside so you can put only lukewarm water inside the pipes. The heatpump will be significantly less efficient if you use small radiators, that's also the reason why it's not always a good idea to retro-fit a heatpump into heating system designed for hot water ‒ it'll manage, but will be about as efficient as a primitive resistance heater. So yes, I'm more or less saying that to get that 15kW of heat out of the battery through such small radiator, one needs to push the heatpump way out of its comfort zone and it might take additional 10kW of energy to force it through there.

[@grahamsalmons2027]

I’m slightly confused: clearly the throttling and ‘rapidgate ’ during the test was enough to pique your interest and comment about it significantly in the 1000km test, but this video retracts that quite a bit. Have you come under pressure about the presentation of the data from the manufacturer? I hope not. The data and presentation are excellent. Very interesting remark about the design of the MEB cells and cooling. Is it not the case that the ‘dip’ in the chart will move dependent on the outside temperature?

[@bjornnyland]

Nope. But as you saw, the 80 kW vs 110 kW at 40 % seemed slow. But once you dig deeper into the data, you realise it's not that bad. I did *not* get any pressure from VAG. They watch my video but they don't go as far as trying to censor anything. After all, we're living in a civilized continent...

[@grahamsalmons2027]

@@bjornnyland ok that’s great, because what you are doing is actually really important consumer testing. The data you provide is really interesting! I am also very interested in degradation data in the opposite extreme, ie when it’s cold. I know you tested the M50 in the winter would love to see summer test too to compare! Thank you for all the hard work! Love the content

[@artokiiskinen1058]

Only from TB we get this kind of analysis. I wonder if VW engineers do this kind of tests

[@e94mli]

Could the number for the heatpump be output of energy rather than input? Would make more sense to me, otherwise the heatpump would huge and you would never need a PTC in winter, which is not the case.

[@e94mli]

Found specification on the heatpump and it is rated at 4,4kW with a peak power consumption of 5,5kW so the number from the OBD must be output or something completely different.

[@RedlioNxTR]

Not that bad? It's literally terrible. xD

[@bjornnyland]

So 45 minutes charging time to 90 % vs 44 minutes is terrible? Ok...

[@RedlioNxTR]

@@bjornnyland I'm talking about the wasted energy used on cooling the pack, it's clearly inefficient.

[@MrYour101]

Does this car use co2 (r744) refrigerant?

[@fabriziom]

Yes

[@ufux4u]

Depends: Co2 only if you have heatpump

[@fabriziom]

@@ufux4u indeed. I believe Norway cars all come with the CO2 heat pump ?

[@OleksiyYergiyev]

I wonder if the battery temperature going up to +50C and staying there is the culprit for the reported ID.3 HVB degradation cases just in one year of use. Like 15% or something

[@bjornnyland]

As far as I know, ID3 doesn't hit 175 kW.

[@OleksiyYergiyev]

@@bjornnyland This may mean that ID.4-5 and Enyak may display even more significant degradation. If the hypothesis is true, that is. Hope you do some tests in the future to verify this, thanks

[@mr.wizeguy8995]

Can we draw conclusion from this that using AC charger extends battery life?

[@OleksiyYergiyev]

@@mr.wizeguy8995 This is common knowledge for all li-ion chemistries. All else equal fast charging increases degradation compared to slower charging. DC vs AC is irrelevant, C-rate is what matters.

[@mr.wizeguy8995]

@@OleksiyYergiyev Ok, thx. Didn't knew that so i can assume my EV battery last long because quite sure i can rely to AC home charging 90% of time.

[@kevinsmith7823]

Hia Bjorn haven’t commented for long long time love your videos . 1, all the obd info for me very overweening as so much I for to take in at a short period of time . Think I get it a little . Be good if this type of info was slowed down a little . But good content 2, this for me is really really really nice 👌🏽 exciting fabulous content and that’s the inlet heat and outlet heat . 👍🏽 3, your explanation of the heat temperature around the battery 🪫 🔋 pack is invaluable I hope 🤞🏽 tesla .bmw Chinese car manafactures and of course Sandy from Munro live . Think this this would make a fantastic video !!!! Ps congratulations 🥳 on baby 🥰 so in short great content