Skyrim - The Problem with the College of Winterhold

[@jhay3966]

"I went to the college to learn, but they turned me to an arch-mage before I even learned Illusion spells" -Dragonborn, 4E 201

[@SoraTsubasa]

Learning magic is hard? Stupid nords I made it to Arch mage on Flames and Healing alone tch.

[@NWolfsson]

To be fair, in the College the Psyjik put interest in you (and nearly everybody knows it), and you were capital in stopping Ancano (literally only you and him in the room). Nothing related to the leading and management qualities of an Archmage, but it's still better than the Companions Guild bombarding you Harbinger while you did nothing more than Aela, which is far more of a veteran than you...

[@SoraTsubasa]

@@NWolfsson with the companions it is explained why they chose you: Fark wasn't the 'leader type' but more of a follower, Vilkas had the brains but also a very closed mind on most things like his staunch opposed behavior towards you or how he felt too much guilt and revenge hatred to even face the trials of the honored dead. Lastly Aela is literally#1 hot head blood boiling wolf bound. She's not really much for 'wisdom' as more so one hell of a fighter and wild child. You're all that remains of the circle at that point and was viewed as 'neutral' glue when there was in fighting. The one to replace Kodlak was supposed to be Scyor(can't spell it sorry) but...well he died. The harbinger must have all of the skills of the circle members which from their perspective: you do, they all excel at one characteristics while you embody them all in one way or another. More evidence of this is found in Kodlaks journal and reasons for his decision.

[@SoraTsubasa]

@@NWolfsson also Faralda is Master Destruction mage...why she no fight more lol only one I don't expect to fight is Colette..cause.... restoration ya know. And the Irony of Alteration scholar Tolfdir getting paralyzed by Ancano smh

[@The-Okami-Project]

More like "i went to the college for the main quest, but they suckered me in and i had to do it to clear my log. even though my favorite word is smash"

[@anthonydelfino6171]

The College is so under populated because Faralda won't let anyone come in to learn magic unless they already know how to use magic.

[@philthespoopydragon2694]

Anthony Delfino nah it's pure genius

[@no3ironman11100]

A college that teaches how to do basic magic (at least how it's classes seem) Requires you to be able to use advanced(novice restoration for example) magic spells. UUGHHHHHH!!!

[@MikePhantom]

good argument IF she wouldn't give you the book to learn the spell its about controlling the magic not able to use it

[@anthonydelfino6171]

I've more than once ran into a situation where she demanded I cast a spell to gain entry that cost more mana than I had available to me.

[@no3ironman11100]

+Shroom And I'm about shitting on things to get like, Even if it's false.

[@SpectacularName]

The average mage dungeon has more magic users than the College.

[@thomasjenkins7506]

you find more people that have been kicked out of the college just wandering around skyrim than people in the college.

[@ButterBoyism]

It's an issue most bethesda games suffer from in general, skyrim is just... An extreme case. I cannot play this game without a mod that expands upon locations and adds in more npcs. Visiting an empty college or a "capital" of an entire region and only seeing a few people and a few shacks just feels wrong!

[@sharketeer1569]

Good point

[@Anthony.462]

Wolfie just a hardware problem really considering the game came out in ps3 days . Hopefully the new elder scrolls will have really lived in city’s

[@elijahjohnson1952]

@@ButterBoyism In morrowind and Oblivion there where tones of members.

[@IAmNumber4000]

Imagine being Tolfdir, dedicating your whole life to this weird sketchy college, and when you’re the senior member, the arch-mage dies and some random brand-new student with no investment in the college becomes the new arch-mage.

[@boxim07]

I mean like, it's his own fault as he makes you the arch-mage.

[@chrispy199]

the guy has lost his own alembic how many times now...what do you expect?

[@Nottyastro]

He’s the one who makes you the Arch Mage. It would make more sense if he promoted Mirabelle

[@ImMaramAtt]

That's nothing... imagine being a Nord that's dedicated to go to Sovengarde, but then some dude kills you and traps your soul and you end up in the Soul Cairn.

[@theghostofthomasjenkins9643]

@@Nottyastro i mean, they didn't have to kill off mirabelle off screen. she's the perfect person to take over the college.

[@amogernebula3983]

College of Winterhold questline in a nutshell: - Cast a ward - Find a ball - Find a staff - Kill Ancano - Arch-mage

[@apreks1277]

easier said than done

[@Izzmonster]

@@apreks1277 I disagree. I think it was just as easily done.

[@vincea1830]

@@apreks1277 definitely as easy as stated...

[@francisharkins]

@@apreks1277 Only If you play on Legendary with no mods or glitches well also playing as a pure mage with only clothing and no armor. Then its harder. Its bad enough that If you go battlemage through the questline then its just easy streak until the last quest because Ancano being a cheap baby with Invincibility phases that you need the spoopy stick to remove.

[@Theevilrhino]

Vince A go fight some of those mages on legendary with overhaul mods :P the whole games that easy if you play normally

[@longleaf1217]

the issue with the college was perfectly summed up for me from a meme I saw on reddit once. it showed a picture of an orc wearing the arch mages robes with the caption "grug good wizard, grug know three spells".

[@Theevilrhino]

Is that not the while game?

[@boltywolty123]

Brilliant hahaha

[@prime_optimus]

You need 4 not 3. Unless that's a side quest Im thinking of.

[@idkwtcm984]

@@prime_optimus you can skip the entry spell if you pass the speech check

[@ra_alf9467]

@@idkwtcm984 you can also skip the ward lesson with spellbreaker shield

[@TheRabidArtist]

The college questline feels half finished because it IS half finished. Have you ever read the original plans online? The initial plan was to have the questline culminate in an ending which involved time travel, revealing that the Dragonborn his/herself was directly involved with the Great Collapse somehow, casing more light on Aren, Ancano and bringing the Psijic Order more into the game. Unfortunately, for Bethesda to make that all-mighty 11/11/11 release they had to make some cuts due to time constraints. The college got the short end of the stick, in my opinion. The College, the civil war, and several side quests were cut down. Personally, I would much rather have had a finished game than a cool sounding release date, but whatever.

[@namebrandmason]

I still can't believe they didn't add generic "students." The weird assassin cult has more members than the college.

[@EvilParagon4]

In today's day and age, it almost feels unacceptable that a game would be "unfinished" due to deadlines. Just release it as a workable copy and finish it later. I totally wouldn't have minded paying $30 for a "Guilds" DLC that enhanced the Thieves, Assassins, Mages, Companions, and whatever else I'm forgetting right now, even if it came out a year after Dragonborn/Dawnguard/whichever was the latest.

[@tg93williams]

Fin... Finished game?... Is that even English?

[@beatrizrangel9145]

tg93williams it sounds right to me

[@acozkn]

Right actually during the gameplay you hear missing students from one of the teachers (i dont remember which one was them) , he mentions that there were a list but there wasn't a quest!

[@dragonorbminecraft]

Dragonborn: *Breaths* Tolfdir: Remarkable, you truly are a remarkable mage

[@FluffySylveonBoi]

He breathes fire and gets praise, easy.

[@LoneSilverW0lf]

Considering our very breath is the equivalent to reality warping, can you blame the old man?

[@ThrillaWhale]

@@hahmann It would be, if there was ANY dialogue option that allowed even one main faction to acknowledge you as Dragonborn. Like any at all.

[@tusharjamwal]

It is certainly remarkable ehen you can cause magic damage without using magicka.

[@spartanq7781]

​@@ThrillaWhale See that's the thing that bugs me about Skyrim. The game ingores what skills you invest in,your race,whether or not you unlocked shouts etc. It makes being the dragonborn rather pointless if it does not matter to the world. So why retcon what a dragonborn is in this series and make us one yet do nothing with it?

[@diego2112gaming]

Psijic Monk: "Know that you have set in motion a chain of events which cannot be stopped." Me: *Walks away and forgets all about the College.* Psijic Monk: "Shit."

[@SoraTsubasa]

That's what bothered me the most like why do I stumble onto this crap in the first 3minutes of the questline. Why not like companions go on a few expeditions then find a book that points to sarthal theeeen the whole end of the world arc can be understood

[@MrSkeltal268]

@@SoraTsubasa it’s just a shame that Bethesda thinks everything has to be handed to you, that you need to be the savior in every situation. Why can’t stuff be earned? Why can’t the pain OC order only approach you when you’re worthy? It’s just frustrating

[@Handlelesswithme]

@@MrSkeltal268 the only time it was appropriate to make you the one in charge was with the dark brotherhood (Because everyone else is dead)

[@nightowl6055]

@@Handlelesswithme And also because one of the gods the Dark Brotherhood worships is only willing to speak to you

[@mrhuntalot123]

*Literally my life* Wake up Get ready Go to school Take a couple classes Dont learn much of anything because its only one day Principal dies *becomes principal*

[@boldone66]

Makes sense

[@sushimoeshi776]

Skyrim in a nutshell tho

[@FuckOff-m1d]

Seems legit

[@yalijin3020]

Seems legit, the principal of my high school couldn't even write on the chalk board (or black board?). Maybe that's why we saw him once in three years.

[@Rhino-ep6of]

Just be glad you weren't at the White House when the president dies.

[@n0makk62]

turns out the spell "greatsword power attack" works in almost all scenarios this questline throws at you

[@mk-ul5tv]

A powerful spell indeez

[@vic44rd]

maybe if you are playing on easier difficulties. The questline is actually quite hard if you play it on legendary.

[@n0makk62]

@@vic44rd well I'm sure lots of things are quite hard on legendary

[@koatam]

This reminded me of a manga called Mashle. It's about a super strong kid using insane athleticism to bullshit his way through magic school.

[@Sionnach1601]

Exactly...what a sham... And then you get promoted to "Arch Mage"??!! I found myself falling back on bow and swords, and gave up the bullsh mage attempts at solving things which were far better fixed by conventional methods. What a sham!

[@ishaantripathi97]

The only interesting thing about the college is the spawn rate of an ancient dragon in it

[@jzargo5797]

No. J'zargo is

[@davidm9442]

Lmaooo 🤣

[@demogod4955]

@@jzargo5797 How has your quest to master expert-level destruction spells been going?

[@jzargo5797]

@@demogod4955 Masterfully

[@DetectiveQuackFFlock]

No fr

[@slick19]

College of winterhold: *gets roasted* Bards college: *nervous laughter*

[@thomasjenkins7506]

at least the bard's college doesn't make you the head bard a few hours after showing up. they treat you like the player should be treated since he doesn't play anying. you're a gopher and they don't even try to hide it.

[@mrstation6905]

Lol dab

[@Heavente]

@@thomasjenkins7506 Mage which can slain with his magic dragon and make himself more powerful by absorbing his soul... And is chosen one... Decent quality for high position.

[@SoraTsubasa]

Bards college so useless to me I forget it's a faction

[@ThatPurpleFlounder]

at least the Bard's college has more students

[@BadgerOff32]

First time I went to the College I went there with the intention of learning magic and improving my skills. About 6 missions later I was Archmage of the place despite only being able to cast apprentice level spells. I was like, "Really? I'm in charge? Already? I'm crap at magic though....that's why i came here in the first place......"

[@Epolusgaming-gl2wn]

Peter Badger I would really like having lessons or people that could help you get higher level on conjuration, destruction etc, like students that are practicing outside or something :( Sorry for bad eng

[@gordonmcghie1985]

It becomes more ridiculous when you do the college as a Muscle Wizard run.

[@DuyroZeppeli]

I became the archmave with my highest magic skill being around 20 points (restoration iirc), the rest haven't even progressed.

[@HickoryDickory86]

That's kind of why I join and go through the forced guided tour, but then go off and get training in magic from the various trainers there and throughout Skyrim (and Solstheim) before I ever go to the "First Lessons" with Tolfdir. That way I feel like I legitimately learned and grew as a mage, as a student of the College of Winterhold, and so it doesn't feel so out of place when I can actually defend myself in Saarthal or why the Psijic Order would at all be interested in me and my abilities. And when I eventually become Arch-Mage, it feels earned. I only wish the whole quest-line for the College was handled a lot better by Bethesda. But seriously, all their quest-lines in Skyrim feel cheap and cobbled together. I think they grew complacent and relied a bit too heavily on radient quests, thinking we were too stupid or gullible to know the difference.

[@allisonkuechlesilva3332]

I always assumed you got made archmage because the events of the college questline damaged the college's already terrible reputation even further and nobody else wanted the job. I actually kinda liked it when my meathead fighter who almost never used magic became archmage because it almost seemed like a shrewd political move for dealing with the local Nords, and it meant that I basically got to be Ridcully from Discworld.

[@mystic-malevolence]

I feel like it wasn't meant as the conventional "learn from professors" kind college, and more like "social club for the magically gifted".

[@joshualittlewolfe8550]

More like the universities of antiquity honestly. Reminds me of how the Library of Alexandria worked

[@baronofbahlingen9662]

Mystic-Malevolence I saw it as more of an organisation of scholars, with the elders naturally helping out new scholars. Less a strict student-teacher relationship.

[@gooddogreallygooddog6157]

Mystic-Malevolence sounds like a private college lol

[@raph3699]

Mystic-Malevolence even so you almost can’t train your magic in the college the only thing you can do is cast spells in the void, which don’t train your magicka

[@noxdelyrium]

That was actually the original meaning of college. They were essentially research institutions, the presence of students was incidental.

[@CrimsonLolita_]

It’s almost like going to actual college: they don’t teach you the things you went there for and you learn more after you’ve finished

[@InkWavve]

You even run into some NPC's throughout Skyrim whose schtick is basically "I have magical talents, but it's looked down upon in Skyrim. What shall I do?" Why can't you, a College Mage, or may even the Archmage at that point, just direct them toward your institution. It would've been so cool.

[@azzy4781]

Try using follower tweaks to create followers and make them stay in the specific locations or make that location their home. In other words you would be recruiting more members for your faction by using the follower tweak mod to change the home of an NPC and switch it with the location of your choosing.

[@Lilferiby]

@JustSomeGuyOnTheNet I'd say they've gotten lazier with each game in the series, and it has peaked with Skyrim. I think the main reason for this is that rather than adding new features in each iteration, they take them out or dilute them down to a basic level. I've played the series since Daggerfall, and Morrowind is one of my all-time favourite RPGs. I still play it now (heavily modded, of course, hah). I still love Skyrim, but it always holds your hand far too much for my taste. I very rarely felt actually challenged by anything in Skyrim, speaking in general, not combat (also, Morrowind's combat system was a challenge in itself, haha) it was just a case of go to map marker, do thing, go to next marker, et c.. That's probably what I liked most about Morrowind, the sense of achievement when you finally figure out where you're supposed to go, or what you were supposed to do. I'm praying that TES VI goes back to that style of game but updating it with things like Skyrim's combat/magic system. Unfortunately, based on Bethesda's recent performance that doesn't seem at all likely.

[@TheNatureVideos]

Lilferiby sheesh I recommend you don’t look into how dumbed down Fallout 4 got coming from Skyrim... FO4 makes Skyrim look like a super in-depth RPG.

[@sebastiansmith7336]

Keep in mind Skyrim was made 9 years ago. They also put the game out sooner than they wanted without finishing it, because a company also was putting its game out that year and money wasn’t going to be coming in as steady for there games because of it.

[@elite_rock_god2292]

This is what i been saying for 10 damn years now!

[@drybitter2650]

I found it funny how you get told that your actions would be judged but there are no choices you can make.

[@alexfraze12087]

And also if you even kill someone, you pay a fee and it's as if nothing happened. There's no consequences for your very limited choices.

[@SkeleTomm]

All the earlier quests in the game, especially quests in Riverwood, reveal how much choice they planned for the player to have before running out of time and deciding to make everyone essential and holding your hand with a vice grip

[@fireice8828]

@@SkeleTomm what quests in river wood, just wondering, all I can think of is fetching the golden claw and delivering faendals letter lol

[@SkeleTomm]

@@fireice8828 Those are the only two, but the Golden claw can be discovered my talking to Lucan, or visiting the Barrow. And the quest can be completed even if Lucan is dead, by giving the claw to his sister. As for the letters, you can help, or betray, either Faendal or Sven. Being able to work around your choices appears to be a larger priority early in the game

[@fireice8828]

@@SkeleTomm ah gotcha

[@ThibautVDP]

"Hey, you, new guy, run a couple errands and you're archmage. Deal?" Two days later, wearing the kick ass archmage robes: Farengar: "If you got the aptitude, you should go to the mages college of Winterhold." Dragonborn: "K"

[@gavinpoley2314]

I feel like giving farengar a slap only a dragonborn could give

[@doublesalopetoimcre]

@@gavinpoley2314 the good old FUS RO DAAH! :D

[@dinofrog926]

Wait a second, does he say ‘aptitude’? I always thought he said ‘attitude’.

[@gryphon4611]

is farengar high on skooma or what

[@thomasjenkins7506]

to be fair, farengar is an asshole, so it's in character.

[@TheLoneCourier2077]

I like how he teaches you how to block a spell but then sends you to a ruin of draugr which don't even use spells for the most part, and the ones that do also use weapons

[@jdmannnn]

hey i just ran through there half the draugrs lived

[@Lord_necromancer]

The thing is, he did not expect the draugr to be there. They had never made it further into the ruin then that first room and had no reason to assume that they would. It was supposed to be completely safe.

[@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat]

​@anthonypendergrass353 true but it's skyrim 90% of the ruins have draugr. Even if they are certain no draugr are around, why teach the c one spell only designed to counter mages and not oakflesh or something good against spiders or something too? I know spiders aren't likely but it's a more reasonable approach than the anti-mage spell.

[@cwalser544]

Your lesser ward can't stop 500+ Fus Do Ras. Thanks Tolfdeir. You blithering idiot.

[@something1600]

@@Lord_necromancer Has he ever heard of a Nordic ruin, they are always swarmed with Draugr.

[@wiseferret4745]

It's been 200 years since it collapsed and the bridge is still broken. Conjure up a hammer and fix it already.

[@snowman2116]

lol..... senile scribbles much?

[@theamvgirlx]

Ahaha senile scribbles. Also it was only 80 years wasn’t it?

[@carbide8215]

I get that joke.......senile scribbles

[@vergodagoat]

Dude actually expected Skyrim fans to not get a reference from a Skyrim video

[@okbutwhoasked9790]

Wise Ferret senile scribbles eh?

[@marvinkitfox3386]

College of Winterhold's approach to handling new students: First day of classes: Hello new guy. Here, cast a shield while I try to roast you. You survived? Good! Now, the whole class is (individually) trekking across the Yeti-infested glacier, to explore an ancient tomb full of vengeful Draugr. . Somehow I don't think the College is OSHA-certified.

[@RevolverOcelot1]

The college is Oh Shit certified.

[@Legendary_sartorian]

dont forget the oh this guy cant be harmed ill let you the student fight this being while i drain this orb of magicka then maybe you can kill him... lets hope so

[@YuriNoirProductions]

remember that the students have been complaining the entire time, that they want to do something more advanced :D

[@jasonschroeder9963]

Yah and for a collage of magic they only teach one spell

[@Ryvaken]

I had a geology professor that led us on a walk around the city looking at the stones used in construction and a few natural outcroppings. The guy wore a Gilligan hat and carried his papers in a collapsible steel bucket. To be clear, yes I am talking about a real professor teaching a real class that I really took in a real college. The Saarthal quest is utterly within my expectations of a magic college.

[@eliparker4114]

I did find it interesting that after progressing to 50 restoration without doing the college questline, a prospective student approached me and asked me to demonstrate how to use wards for his entrance exam. I used a ward while he attacked with magic. Then Lydia killed him because he shot a firebolt at me. I shrugged, looted him, and left his naked corpse in the middle of the streets of Whiterun.

[@shadowstrider5033]

This is why I leave Lydia at Breezehome. She can take care of my house while I do the killing.

[@thomasjenkins7506]

@@shadowstrider5033 lydia is the best steward, though. that aggressive behavior is perfect then.

[@OokileyGMR]

I was once getting out of Winterhold when said guy came to me asking the same thing. As soon as I started casting my ward, a dragon appeared and started attacking me. It was very frustrating

[@likeicare2309]

Amazing how after all these years I still haven't encountered this

[@yeetimusprime415]

Thomas Jenkins I married her lmfao

[@cragscleft1658]

I remember when Ancano released his magical blast at the Eye of Magnus. Savos the Arch-mage who you supposedly would assume to be the most powerful in the college simply just dies. Mirabelle the Master Wizard gets badly wounded and you leave completely unharmed. Logic is already distorted at this point. Either way you go speak to Tolfdir who tells you to protect the college and first thing I see is Drevis Neloren, Phinis Gestor and Colette Marence running to their rooms in fear with no intention of helping at all. Basically a master illusionist, expert conjurer and expert restoration mage just bailing outta there leaving it to the new student to sort things out. I couldn't help but start laughing hysterically. Anyhow I make my way to the bridge and is luckily met by Faralda and Arniel Gane who are actually gonna help. Credit to them haha. We make our way across the bridge and right as I start thinking things couldn't get more absurd, Arniel Gane straight-up just starts throwing punches at the anomalies like "come at me bro, u want some I'll give it ya" style. I went into a coma at this point.

[@precioustories03]

I headcanon Arniel throwing punches is him out of mana and no daggers/weapons on his person. I even panicked at that time cuz he's going to get himself killed throwing himself like that. Fortunately, he survived XD

[@cragscleft1658]

​@@precioustories03 Haha I see it before my eyes now XD

[@cragscleft1658]

@TheWugglet Exactly lol

[@Arthur1379-a]

Same thing happens when you attack Savos Aren. He is a freaking Archmage, but instead of incinerating that fool who attacked him he... starts punching him.

[@cragscleft1658]

@@Arthur1379-a hahaha what the hell

[@goro8812]

You would think they would fix the fucking bridge after 90 years

[@PsylomeAlpha]

At least throw some fucking wooden railings up for Talos' sake! I've actually died falling off of it due to accidentally hitting Q while waiting for the high-elf with pigtails to trundle her ass up the stairs.

[@harriphd7599]

Just fucking conjure up a hammer and just fuck rebuild that shit

[@joyfuldude4538]

Harri Phd That spell doesn't exist....yet. ;-;

[@sonpopco-op9682]

What about Fallout4? You would think after 200 years someone could have found a broom and some fucking paint? Some if the cities in Europe were bombed into fucking rubble 70 years ago, they were rebuilt.

[@thegreycrusader]

Goro Someone should conjure up a fucking Hammer and fix the goddamn bridge already. Did ya get the reference

[@malohn2068]

The college should've taught you all spells through quests. Books is so boring and unrealistic in terms of the world setting. You litterally cast two spells in the college quest line and that's it.

[@MegaAgamon]

Or give you repeatable Quests where you could earn the Gold to buy the books in the first place. Like pretty much any other guild.

[@MrMitchbow]

Even more both of those spells are provided for you if you don’t already know them. And the first one can be skipped if you pass the speech check

[@VJK102]

@@MrMitchbow yeeeeaaah. By the time you have the speech and perks to pass that check, the measly amount they ask for the spell its so miserable its basically useless to waste time in checks

[@ArturoPladeado]

@@MegaAgamon Put the problem with that is obtaining gold is so easy in Skyrim that you'd only need to do at max 5 side quests and between the gold from them and gold from the loot you got you'd be able you buy all the spells you want/need for you build. So unless they made gold harder to obtain I.E made valuable items rare and non enchanted items only sell for at max 100 gold and made the spells cost thousands of gold.

[@HardyMetalliX]

*literally

[@KL-gk1gx]

My problem with it is tht you become archmage, and it means nothing. Not once do any of the letureres or ANYONE ask you to make any descision that is relevant to the running of the college. I am not suggesting getting bogged down in book keeping, but just every now and then doing some Archmaging.

[@TechnoBacon55]

Lmao right, I remember accepting Onmund's request, then finishing the storyline without following up on his side-quest. I became Arch-Mage, then talked to Enthir and he was still talking to me like I'm the retarded apprentice who wants Onmund get his amulet back. Learn some respect, boy.

[@Caranthirn]

It means you can take free stuff from archmage quarters without stealing it :)

[@mrscoldarrow]

K L That’s what I call the Guild Problem. You become the leader and never have to make a single damn choice

[@joshuavar4678]

I mean, you also didn’t have any responsibilities in Oblivion so I don’t see your point...

[@Daland9]

Honestly think a dragonborn/adventurer shouldn’t be able to become archmage... it’s like becoming Jarl. Honorary master title or something should be good enough

[@HeisBeppo]

Oblivion: Go do unique quests in each of the cities to get a referral to get into the main college with all the big cool stuff. Skyrim: cast one spell and you're in.

[@Local_commentor]

or use bucket and kill a student

[@HeisBeppo]

Imagine a glitch to get into the college taking longer than the actual initiation. Lmfao.

[@sparkzmentalz2]

Or just get the Frost Crag DLC for Oblivion and get all the cool stuff from jump.

[@HeisBeppo]

Yeah but you have to spend 3,000 gold for each thing of candles, which if you're not using a dupe glitch or whatever can be a lot.

[@sparkzmentalz2]

@@HeisBeppo There's a black dude in Imperial City Talos Plaza area named Dorian. His house is right across from the hotel. You can paralyze and pickpocket him. When you click to take his gold it glitches so you can take as much gold as you want. You'll get arrested after robbing him but you get to keep all the money you pickpocket off of him when you get out of jail. Infinite source of gold.

[@saigethemage3392]

Everything in Skyrim moved too quickly. I feel like I do a few quests here and there and.... wait, I'm in the circle already??? You really trust me enough to do important thieves guild jobs after i acted tough to some shopkeepers? The sense of progression in TES V is completely fucked. It's way too fast.

[@demomanchaos]

You do one tiny pickpocket gig for them and your first mission is to do what their "best infiltrator" couldn't.

[@jackson0335]

Very true. I just start the game two quest later maybe one if you stumble upon the dragon stone early and im revealed to be the most powerful being in tamriel. The civil war was awful, it needs a much larger scale battle and it had a lack of espionage or tactic also one single soldier could simply end a war. Alduin was far to easy, and overall dragon born quests were more challenging and captivating. And the dead high king couldve had a LOT of potential for the dragon born leading an army to become the high king then have ro resolve skyrims issues and rebuild it either as a lone country or part of the empire but i understand Bethsde wants a vague story line so they can make sure the next game makes sense

[@j.i.709]

MJPK and DB had optional killing bonuses for the named targets👍

[@HeyElizabethPrice]

I know this is an old comment, but I actually feel like the Thieves Guild is the only one that made progression feel like work. With the Companions, you can kill a random wolf in a house and be inducted into the Circle and trusted with secrets. Granted, Mercer does send you out to try to do what Vex couldn't - though we know later he kinda hoped you'd die - but each of the quests felt like I had to work for it. Then there's the plot itself, which was unique - betrayals, conspiracies, secret orders - and you don't even become the official guild master until you've done like 50 radiant quests. The rest were p bad in comparison. The Arch Mage thing was silly, the fact that you can be Harbinger at, like, level 5 is ridiculous, and the DB questline was obvs an attempt at Oblivion nostalgia, w the vampire character, the shadowscale character, and a betrayal. (Tho I'll never complain about Shadowmere or Lucien's ghost.) The assassinations were easy and uncreative; wow, killing someone by pushing over a statue AGAIN... really, if I hadn't played the games in reverse order, I probably would've been annoyed. And the fact that Oblivion's DB questline stood out so much after playing Skyrim first only proves that they failed the story in that regard moving forward. (The only funny thing with playing Skyrim's DB first is that you freak tf out when the Night Mother, essentially a corpse, starts talking to you. I had no idea wtf was going on.) Granted, Cicero and Nazir were iconic characters imo, so they got those guys right. The Companions questline is a joke tho. I had it modded to make the requirements to progress more fleshed out, but when I played SSE w the unmodded questline again since forever... I hated it. The College could've added so much more weight to it too, or they could have at least not have made you the leader of every faction ever. I mean, they're fun and all ofc, but they all could've been handled w more complexity.

[@xavigarcia9372]

It was much better in morrowind, so many quest and with the ranks you feel like you deserve the title, in Skyrim everyting is give to you so easy

[@TheWP120]

"Not everything is a competition, you know." - "Ohh, but you are wrong. The only reason you could disagree, is because you're losing so badly, you cannot see it."

[@NWolfsson]

To me, J'Zargo is the best aspect of the College, period. x) Somehow amongst the approximately or archetypally written and acted characters there is this gem of perfect balance between sass, pride and charisma.

[@xxblacktear]

best character in the college, and one of my fave followers 😍

[@Sionnach1601]

Yeah. He's a tosser. An arrogant little clown mumbling non-sensical drivel thinking it's profound and highly applicable; and all the intellectual wannabes fall for it. Ha! Clown planet 🤡

[@shubhammhashelkar6717]

first time I heart it I burst out laughing lmao 🤣🤣

[@DreddPirateRoberts]

Does anyone else find it incredibly lazy that the player character so often is made the leader? I'm a stealth archer. I don't want to be fucking Arch Mage. I joined the college largely because I wanted to complete the question, and going through the questline is necessary for getting some of the shouts. Leave Mirabelle alive, and make _her_ the arch mage.

[@Theevilrhino]

I mean it’s the case for ever guild/faction in almost every game. It is what it is. These missions are clearly designed to be played by a character of the specific type. They barely finished the missions and dialogue they had, I wouldn’t expect them to have branching paths depending on your individual skill distribution. I’m more upset that you don’t get anything for ever being in charge. It would be cool if you could send groups to go do an expedition with you like the case for sarthaal, or recruit members in random encounters or people you have built relationships with through other missions elsewhere.

[@Underworlder5]

@@Theevilrhino the only benefits from leadership is being able to take certain things items from a specific room without it counting as theft. even then, that will only stop a player doing a good guy playthrough. i doubt anyone will sell the daedra heart you find in kodlaks room (why would he have a daedra heart lying around anyway?)

[@satinizer8021]

god same, i also don't like it in the thieves guild and the companions (tbh i dont really remember id the dragonborn became the ""leader"" in the end, i don't join the companions very often). i don't wanna be no boss, i came here only for the main quest/shouts. at least in the dark brotherhood the night mother is technically the leader, instead of the dragonborn... they could've given a choice if you want to become a leader of some fraction??? u get extra benefits if you do (for examples thieves giving you some gold they've stolen if you're the thieves guild leader, not only when u have the nightgale armor on) and if you don't want to be the leader, then you just chose not to be and another npc is the boss

[@David-ud9ju]

@@Theevilrhino Not quite true. You can't be the leader of different factions in Fallout. Couldn't when I last played it anyway.

[@Marv1089]

@@satinizer8021 There's also the fact that you're approached to join the apparently illegal Thieves Guild. You could have no stealth perks and be a hulking brute in full Ebony armor with a huge battleaxe strapped to your back, and stupid Brynjolf will say you're a thief.

[@CoRLex-jh5vx]

Accurate College of Winterhold Experience: "Oh, hey, its J'zargo. Neat." "Glowy guy. Huh, neat." "A skeletal dragon? Neat." "Guess I'm the arch mage now. Neat."

[@pmester228]

J'zargo should be the arch-mage. His innovations in destruction magic are remarkable, especially the suicide vest. If one could make a dremora use it in their stead.

[@yossarian8561]

I was love how they teach you how to put up a quickly draining wall, and then expect you to fight a entire tomb full of draugr, a necromancer guild, and a dwemer ruin full of dangerous machines.

[@SoraTsubasa]

And Falmer ...don't forget the FaLmER

[@caitlynbaron4841]

i was only level 8 and i wanted to learn some more magic, i absolutely did NOT deserve any of that

[@arcader8138]

I was stuck in the first part of the quest, when you have to explore saarthal, because the draugr were too powerful. That’s right, my level was too high and my gear was so weak, that I couldn’t finish the questline.

[@tpfrecoil2837]

Fun fact: The last generation of students from the college are almost all dead. You can find a lot of their corpses throughout Winterhold. One was killed by a bandit, in the journeyman's nook east of the city. Another one's charred corpse can be found on the coastline surrounded by fire, with a flame cloak spell on the ground in front of him, and so on.

[@seferino]

Tanner McNeill true

[@xdeathcon]

Honestly it's probably because they don't have many places they can go. They're normal people with no fast travel so they had to be somewhere local but not near the townspeople since the nords wouldn't put up with it.

[@Anomaly-uz9pr]

Funny enough those students who you find dead are part of a cut quest line that was removed for no real reason

[@mmorkinism]

There also was 4 students that died trying summon daedra in midden.

[@cryogenicwaif4688]

wasn't that supposed to be quest, and it got cancelled?

[@twice1962]

I always thought the whole College of Winterhold was underwelming. Even aesthetically it was dull. It seems so cold and uninviting. Surely a Mage’s College should have magical fireplaces and a cozy interior...not the ‘classic’ Nord architecture.

[@XeroBoii]

I expected it all to look like the arch-mage's garden but no, fuck me for wanting a nice anything to look at in the north of skyrim

[@twice1962]

Giant Miniature Space Giraffe Well, the North is a cold and inhospitable place. Of course people would want their homes to be as warm and invit.....oh wait, as cold and miserable as the outside. Damn stubborn Nords.

[@Boxedpapi]

I hated the inside a lot I walked inside and it had one room for study and a few generic rooms for its students I was like what is this SMH. But then like the quest line wasn't even dope it was just ight

[@bradenstout9098]

Twice19 That’s why one of the first mods I got for Skyrim when I got it on ps4 was a mod that changed the college. It was always so boring before. It’s nothing insane or anything but the stuff it adds was really needed in my opinion.

[@bradenstout9098]

Drew 38 Yeah

[@MegaAgamon]

The amount of times my pure mage low level character straight up died in Saarthal isn't funny Tolfdir.

[@arcader8138]

I accidentally power leveled my character, while trying to level my sneak to finish the “diplomatic immunity” quest. Once I had, like, level 95 sneak, my level was so high, that my enemies were *leagues* stronger than me. I couldn’t even defeat the first draugr in Saarthal. Lesson learned. Don’t cheat the game.

[@Madchris8828]

@@arcader8138 it's worse too if you play on legendary and don't have good health lol

[@mk-ul5tv]

Dude idk if it's due to one of the mods I have, but, remember the boss that has the staff of magnus? Defeating that ducker at lv35 was impossible, if you got remotely close, as in, close enough to acknowledge his existance, shock damage would just apply to you over time, in fact, I lied, cause that shit still applied to you even if you were behind a wall, plus the dude summoned a storm antronach, and I was playing in master

[@aradia9726]

@@mk-ul5tv iirc that was a dragon priest, and all of the (non dragonborn dlc) ones are level 50 so it makes sense that you struggled

[@mk-ul5tv]

@@aradia9726 thanks for giving my suffering validation, to kill that fuck I used every potion, every venom, every arrow, I had to cheese him, there was just no way, even with shouts like become etherial or slow time

[@harapeko324]

No magic build = "Youre the archmage now"

[@ulysses284]

Harapeko I only joined to get all the masks

[@damnsonwheredyoufindthis.3830]

Has warrior build and only uses healing spells. "apparently one of the best mages"

[@FilmsNerf2]

I mean as Dragonborn you're the master of the Thu'um which is technically a school of magic.

[@thomasjenkins7506]

@@FilmsNerf2 are you though? you can beat the game with just 4 shouts: unrelenting force, whirlwind sprint, dragonrend, and clear skies. they are all just handed to you, too.

[@getthegoons]

@@thomasjenkins7506 fire breath. Which is also handed to you

[@Anmatgreen]

The Thalmor guy turned out to be the bad guy. Ooooh noooo, I am sooo surpriiiised... *falls asleep*

[@void9399]

Well, I do not think the writers aimed to surprise the players by showing Ancano (the thalmor) as the bad guy. Almost everyone at the College warns you not to trust him. The "surprise" in that story is about what the Arch-mage did to his old friends in Labyrinth.

[@Syrus2006]

Fegelein, *FEGELEIN!*

[@hihi-nm3uy]

Syrus2006 DAMMIT! you beat me to it

[@Syrus2006]

Soon as I saw his name (and subsequently his display picture) I had to. The scream was welling up within me.

[@gzizou_seif]

Trueeee

[@misso295]

I always thought Tolfdir, Mirabelle, the arch mage and the librarian were the only staff and the expert mages were more like upper class men

[@dzonbrodi514]

It does seem improbable that a college thousands of years old, which is the only place in the whole country that you can study magic in, would only have a handful of students

[@andrewjohnson6716]

Yes, more like the X-men than a university.

[@DoctorWhoKage]

@@dzonbrodi514 actually it's *not* all that improbable once you take that fact in the context of in-game recent events. After the Oblivion Crisis, Nords began to trust magic less and less. Add that to the fact that most of those within the Dominion are magic-users and the fact that the College is the only thing left standing after the Great Collapse and you get a recipe for Nord parents who shun the magic found in their kids rather than let them go to the College. And you also get the recipe for why there are so few students and so many younger mages who are being taught magic by not-so-trustworthy people instead of a well-trained person at the most prestigious and well-organized college in the country (because it's the *only* one in the country). So, the recent unpopularity of magic leads to less and less students. This is like going to an unpopular school with a shady history, realizing that there are not many students there, and asking why is there so few students at this place when the reasons are obvious. If things get any worse magic-wise in the Elder Scrolls universe, I'd say that the mages of Tamriel should Harry Potter it up, and study magic in secret, make magic, as a whole be something that next to know one knows even exists. Make the existence of magic be forgotten by the people of Tamriel, and continue their existence in secret, turn it into something that only exists in fairytales and legends.

[@seanm1319]

There should’ve been a quest involving the restoration of Winterhold, which results in the city being rebuilt to the glory it had before the great collapse… always bothered me that this wasn’t done.

[@pancakes8670]

I agree. I know it's Game Limitations, but Winterhold is like... 2 houses and a Bar. That can't even be classified as a Hamlet!

[@redsixx669]

This can be said about the game as a whole, theres no semblance of time passing or the world changing to major story events, the closest we get is civil war where some cities get different guards, thats pretty much it

[@Yng_Roshi]

Real talk, when I first went to the College of Winterhold I thought it was gonna be like Harry Potter.

[@_sanmaul]

Gosh I thought I was the only one 😂😂😂

[@Nottyastro]

Same :/. I was so excited especially because my first character was a magic user. Once I heard of the college I wanted to go there immediately. Needless to say I was very disappointed. Only 3 students? That place was way overhyped and unfinished

[@tkdbz4411]

Me too bro i was severely let down

[@TheBoyNextWorld1996]

There’s a mod that makes the college look less boring 👏

[@mrsirgiy]

@@TheBoyNextWorld1996 what’s the name?

[@Amazatastic]

I like the arch mages quarters and everything but... Mirabelle deserved to be arch mage more than I did

[@jonathandoe1367]

@Red Red Well, considering there are ways of killing just about anyone, he might of just accidentally killed her. Happens to alot of people, apparently. EDIT: Well, apparently she does die. I haven't played it, but he doesn't seem to be the only one saying this. Maybe something happened in your playthrough, and she bugged out and survived, lol.

[@iami3rian394]

@@jonathandoe1367 yeah, I was halfway done mentally writing a reply. She dies. I've played through the college dozens of times, I've never had her survive a single time. No idea what could even cause that. When you consider that YOU are the one who dealt with Ancano, Labrynthian, the Eye, the staff, the synod, the caller, and with Faralda and Sergius saved the city and were already third in command it kinda makes sense that you're the new archmage.

[@KarmasAB123]

@@iami3rian394 Well, it could make sense that you've demonstrated qualifications for defending the college, but that's very different from running it.

[@iami3rian394]

@@KarmasAB123 right, so we should have to seal the only other surviving members of our class in a tomb, enthralled to imprison a dragon priest lich for all time because we can't deal with him.... Or maybe insist that the Auger is a fairy tale, but be absolutely nonplussed on hearing that others have consulted him.... Or just be completely oblivious in general to the enemy agent infiltrating the college and capturing quite possibly the most powerful relic in Nirn.... Maybe let the new recruit deal with the city being overrun with magical anomalies the college caused, while simultaneously whining about the negative reputation it's attained.... Or maybe lie about the cause of the great collapse (in game references rather strongly indicate that whatever created the Auger was also the cause of the great collapse.... unless you believe the eruption _two hundred years ago_ was the cause.)... Perhaps any one of _THOSE_ would indicate the ability to run the college more adequately.

[@KarmasAB123]

@@iami3rian394 I didn't say the previous guy was any good, but either way that doesn't change the fact that I'm not qualified.

[@MrRattlebones640]

Oblivion: gain favour from all the mages guilds with each one having a unique quest before you can even think of joining the university. Skyrim: Cast ward and dungeon crawl for a few hours

[@Morgan423Z]

I think what bugs me the most about simple plot holes in ANYTHING is when they can be fixed by five second's worth of dialogue. For example, regarding the three students in the entire school issue, how difficult would it have been to have Mirabelle say something like, "You just missed the big event. We had twenty students graduate a couple of weeks ago," as she walks you around? Issue solved and it took two lines of dialogue.

[@ericnorthmen4118]

Right?! It'd also add some world building continuity. For example every aggressive mage in the world. One could always ponder if they once attended the school

[@drewbryk]

I don't think it makes sense for a secretive, reviled institution to graduate more students than there are members. Its not meant to be a "college" in the modern sense but an association of scholars. You don't "graduate," you join

[@mutualdecline2174]

The College is supposed to be a faction of scholars, not a place that teaches & then graduates students & then send them off.

[@SebastianW458]

‚Another student has been incinerated‘ Easiest fix through dialogue ever.

[@anthonym840]

What I think would have been great in this storyline is say they had in game lessons. Depending on what u want to meditate on. U gain 5 points in that skill, and perhaps there was a specific spell they were teaching several students. Much like when u first interacted with Tolfdir u learn basics of that spell. Then u come back possibly another time to learn a more advanced version of said spell, until u know them all. After that u just gain 5 in ur magic class or something. It would make one feel like there's an actual lesson and actual "teaching" going on here, and it would feel like ur actually rising in knowledge about magic. It would also be cool if there were study sessions in various parts of the place. U know like what Maribelle first pitches to u when u first arrive? Like I specific time frame for each teacher to instruct and location of said instruction session. These would have made this college feel more alive. Mod authers have added more NPCs to college, and there's 2 mods that make the college look less bland. Its a step in the right direction. But studies and practices would have been more engaging and more intresting with actual study sessions lol

[@chisasa9509]

Every time I go to the collage there's a Dragon killing the Town.

[@jortiz1689]

Same

[@seb2750]

It is a mercy killing from the dragon.

[@Leotheleprachaun]

Every. Single. Time....

[@yeetimusprime415]

That’s just the definition of Skyrim. There’s ALWAYS a dragon where you are.

[@Jamarvious_]

Paarthurnaax: I will teach the other dovah through the way of the voice. The other dovah: always trying to kill the Dragonborn

[@nemerly_00]

The lack of students is a big issue for me as well. But the thing that really irritated me about this storyline was the first time I played through: I was an archer/thief character and had no interest in Magic. I managed to get through the whole storyline without casting any spells stronger than the novice spells or using scrolls and staffs when needed. I was then given the title ArchMage with almost no magic training or proficiency. After that first playthrough, I installed the "Immersive College of Winterhold" mod and that made the college better. And at least you can decline to be ArchMage and pass the title on to Tolfdir.

[@texash53d40]

@@dominick1013 shield + 1 hand heavy ftw

[@maryblue6071]

Immersive college of winterhold mod?? What s that??

[@cryogenicwaif4688]

@@maryblue6071 the title is pretty self explanatory

[@TheAbsol7448]

I used a Blizzard Scroll, but you can guess the situation I used it in.

[@drewbryk]

I never understood this criticism - you could RP a witch-hunter or non-mage scholar. Even if you don't use magic for combay, you're doing very high level magical research in discovering the Eye and killing all these powerful wizards.

[@TOTN17]

I think the College could have worked better if you had to pass all the master spell quests to become Arch Mage in addition to finishing the College Quest Line

[@pancakes8670]

I feel like Master would take a while. Maybe reach Expert level in all of the skill trees, which is 75 for each if I remember correctly?

[@alexavgeris5620]

My biggest gripe with the mage guild in Skyrim was how useless it felt. I personally think all spells beyond basic ones should be taught there and incorporate mini quests that act as classes for each spell. It would make going to the school essential for anyone who wants to be a mage. I also wish they expanded on the quest line and incorporated more of the Psijic order after the events with Ancano.

[@QuintRepler]

@@pancakes8670 expert in all but master of one would make more sense I think, like you are essentially a PhD of Illusion now so here's your tenure and job offering of Dean

[@carlosbaluyut1076]

Yeah like the thieves guild having you restore its former glory which also proves you to be a master thief

[@PragmaticTornado]

My level 130 mage in Skyrim would still be a noob then. Think I'm missing 2 master quests still.

[@RamseyDewey]

Skyrim somehow succeeded in making magic the LEAST interesting part of an Elder Scrolls game.

[@dorianclennett6165]

Although I disagree with you there, I do think that the college of winterhold is the worst guild in Skyrim

[@ChimpScape]

Yeah it feels naff asf and makes your character extra squishy, unlike in Oblivion where you were holding back majorly if you weren't using magic. Skyrim made magic feel pointless, why encumber yourself with cheap party spells when you could just cave skulls in with a big two-handed hammer.

[@zohaibajmal7945]

kekinator Both magic and hand to hand combat have their uses in the game. It just takes mages longer to be powerful but when they do they become stronger than if they'd chosen to be a warrior. magic can be really powerful and it definitely is not all party tricks

[@blues4509]

Zohaib Ajmal Magic is pretty bad in skyrim, especially comparatively to a warrior build late game. You're not only squishy most spells are shrugged off unless you stagger lock with fireball which does meager damage later on. Magic doesn't really scale well in a game where the scaling is already pretty bad but at least when using a sword or whatever that gets scaled with you along with great armor.

[@Industrious420]

no...it's not. Magic is nowhere close to the power you can achieve through mellee. There are no ways to buff or increase magic damage via enchanting, look at all the options you have for mellee. You can buff +20% damage on to every piece of gear, and then on top of that you can buff the weapon damage from crafting up to legendary tier. Magic is a fucking joke in Skyrim.

[@ChippyPippy]

I felt like there were too many quests were you're the only one that can save the world from ending. Skyrim was like end of world fatigue.

[@MediumRareOpinions]

Totally agree, especially when there's no actual time pressure on you and each of the world ending events just queue up and patiently wait for the previous event to be resolved one by one.

[@erodiumminer]

Agreed. You save the world like 3(+?) times. I get it for the main quest, but it feels kind of ridiculous after a while.

[@MediumRareOpinions]

@@erodiumminer I think at least 4? Dragon Crisis, Vampires trying to turn everything to permanent night and the Possible return of Miirak and the eye of Magnus.

[@Vixen1525]

And every NPC is dumb as shit....

[@smoovejl]

@D. R. Lol 😂😂😂

[@AshbeeGaming]

I would have loved a quest revolving around the Great Collapse, what caused it and why 🤔 some kind of big conspiracy

[@FudgeMuppet]

+Ashbee Gaming Agreed

[@fafnirgeser1661]

Well, the immersive college of winterhold mod kind of features a quest, which includes travelling into the depths of Winterhold and fighting your way through the ruins of the collapsed city. It is only available after the end of the college questline when becoming archmage, and starts in the midden.

[@MisterDragelof]

Fafnir Geser and it's, if not scary at least, unsettling. It was also as intence as it could get.

[@Warden_Vtel]

Ashbee Gaming It'S tHe BuGs In JaRs!!!

[@kaimagnus5760]

Bethesda really droped the great collapse idea too easily. Just like "No One Escapes From Cidna Mines" was more or less the conclusion of The Markarth incedent they could have made a quest chain that allowed the truth of The Collapse to be explored and for Winterhold and The College's relationship to be rebuilt between that and rebuilding the town.

[@geurrilla2448]

The reason there are only three students is because Tolfdir used the rest as meat shields while fighting draugr

[@danielsmith9476]

It made me laugh how he told a new student in the college to go ahead without him and explore a dangerous ruin more

[@jaredlaurence450]

I wish all the quest in the guild were like the first quest, when you learned how to use wards and stuff like that.

[@diamondflaw]

You mean actual magic lessons at the magic college? Absurd!

[@AmadisLFE]

But, wards don't protect against swords, how'd I pass the companions test?

[@sci_pain3409]

no please

[@yipdog103]

*enters college* *saves college and becomes principal*

[@sci_pain3409]

*enters white house saves president and becomes president.*

[@dylanmac7227]

@@sci_pain3409 That's how mafia works

[@dacyrdemonz]

@@sci_pain3409 more like: *enters white house watches president being murdered murder the murderer becomes president*

[@caz8577]

Just beat the devil out of it

[@stephenskinner7207]

YESSSSSS! Finally someone points out how stripped down the magic options were in Skyrim. As one who favors Conjuration, I felt this hard.

[@freyjaseren6915]

Necromancer magician or summoner?

[@oscarhawkley]

Still don't get how everyone is a necromancer...mannimarcos staff had a 30 second raise corpse power and was super dangerous and yet the ritual stone raises everyone in 75ft...ridiculous

[@nuke1863]

Call me dumb or Something else, but imo conjuration is one of, if not, the best kinds of magic in skyrim and at least somehow Worth it. Maybe illusion is good for stealth but everything else is pretty disappointing.

[@spaghetticondo.m9116]

@@nuke1863 I feel like conjuration is not that great late game

[@MrSkeltal268]

With the Ordinator mod, conjugation is tons of fun. I stroll in to most situations with an army of skeletons, conjure dremora, and raise the dead to fight for me, all in the same fight. It’s just like showing up and being the ultimate badass. I don’t even lift a finger

[@OlympusPublicAffairs]

So I've been playing through Skyrim (again). And I have a theory that the Thieves guild was the most well thought out faction. Because of this, I've been thinking of ways they could have made the other factions just as good. In order to become guild master of the Thieves guild, you have to do more than just finish the questline. You have to take jobs in other holds in order to establish a presence there. And after doing so in each of the walled ones, and finishing a capstone quest, you get one step closer to it. They could have done the same with the College. And tied it in with Urag and the Enchanting guy just like they did with Vex and Delvin's quests, this time with the unwalled holds like Morthol and Dawnstar. Find some books here, do enchanting services there, that sort of thing. With each hold having a capstone quest that gets you closer to becoming Archmage. Your goal isnt to be a master of the Arcane, but to re-establish the "good graces" of the College. Each capstone quest could result in a new student, mirroring the vendors in the Thieves guild. Finally, and additional objective of the Thieves guild is finding the collectibles for the shelf. In the College, this could be something else. Maybe instead of collectibles, it's some sort of Arcane Anomally off the main path resulting from the eye of magnus you have to dispel. Sure, this basically boils down to "Make everything like the Thieves Guild." But a majority of the factions have the same theme of "Return to Glory." And it all could have made for a better experience.

[@claragudelhoff8407]

That would definitely be cool. However, I kind of liked how the reputation of the college remains piss poor and unsavable because all its mages just don't give a damn. The thieves guild wants to reinvent itself and rise to glory again, the college doesn't really seem to think there's a problem with how things are. Being arch age is more like making sure a group of kindergarten students with flame throwers remains within the property lines.

[@shada0]

Here is an Idea for making better guilds, have them read your stat level and act accordingly. That way you cant be a head of a faction while your still a novice. In Skyrim you can be an Arch-mage who only knows a few spells. I hated how the game just lets you walk in an run the place in a week. How about some radiant quests to help you level up until your at the required skill level to do a guild quest.

[@4f52]

Like Morrowind? TOO CONFUSING is the bethesda excuse

[@worthywill9294]

That's a good idea

[@crazyscotsman9327]

Seriously it makes literally no sense. Also I love the Companions as I almost always play a warrior but fucking hell your telling me 3 days with these guys and I am the fucking Harbinger their leader and the most respected guy there get the fuck out of here. Same thing with the College, I literally played an illiterate barbarian who got in using shouts and never once used magic. (He used Spellbreaker to get past the ward requirement.) And they made him archmage. And I'm like... Guys this guy cannot use magic are you fucking kidding me?!

[@Siticmon]

mods

[@musteducation8795]

Winterhold: “Everyone’s only here for the college!” *Walks into college* *Practically empty*

[@Pseudoaquanaut]

Exactly.

[@Z7Games]

Every single fucking tavernkeeper in Skyrim will tell you about the college the millisecond you ask for magic, and plenty of guards constantly talk about it in the streets. Yet they have 3 students.

[@Underworlder5]

@@Z7Games in its defense, the place is practically surrounded by a blizzard. most who would be interested in studying there would probably not be able to make it anyway, and those who can handle it tend to be the type to prefer a warrior path. my question is why the college is not somewhere more accessible, or having another college under the same name

[@theghostofthomasjenkins9643]

well, they certainly aren't there for the town, so it makes sense.

[@Z7Games]

@@Underworlder5 A yes, the very remote and hard to get Winterhold. Almost impossible to reach by humankind. Unless you pay a measly 50 gold to the carriage guy of course...

[@effab1e200]

Fancy yourself a mage, eh? I'm more of a warrior myself.

[@frozensoul8241]

Devansh Kumar i play an mage assasin that focuses on ice magic and necromancy

[@SiefausOsna]

cool i play an disabled snow elf who is a master in speechcraft

[@Hermodice112]

i had you figured for a mage

[@AGoofyAhhDuck]

Devansh Kumar Fancy the bow eh I'm a sword man myself

[@BidiguiloChefao]

SiefausOsna you cant play as snow elves

[@mitsunitaiko1742]

what bothers me the most is that the second you enter the guild, you guessed Ancano as a Thalmor is gonna betray you. And then you give him the benefit of doubt, thinking the game won't do something so easy, and then Ancano is indeed a traitor and you're supposed to be chocked, after having pretty much 0 interaction with him. Wouldn't it have been cooler if the game invited you to suspect Ancano, but he turns out to be the good guy and, I don't know, Savos Aren is the traitor? Or the psyjics? Edit: with some videos I have a bad habit of commenting before watching, now I know he says it XD

[@thunderstruk033]

A Psijic DLC would’ve been absolutely amazing.

[@ranakolovian9057]

I Love this game with all my heart, but I am so very very glad someone spoke absolute truth regarding the Winterhold College, and Winterhold in general. Love this video Fudgemuppet.

[@FudgeMuppet]

+Ranako Lovian Thank you ❤ Glad we can all love it but still speak the truth

[@White_Tiger93]

Having started my Bethesda library with The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind and Daggerfall, I've long been aware of the steps backward Bethesda Game Studios has taken with their flagship RPG series. Removal of etiquette from dialogue, homogenizing skills, removing context specific actions like bashing down doors, removing skill requirements for guild advancement, removing spellcrafting, toning down race specific disposition and attitudes, removing the ability to play a class build or start blank, and on and on and on. It seems like the number 4 is a cursed one in the games industry, for Bethesda especially. First there was The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, and now Fallout 4 has fallen flat on its face.

[@DunjaKavur]

I don't know if someone already mentioned it and I don't really want to cry how Morrowind was better - but I liked the progression system for guilds in Morrowind so much more. It had major and minor skills that were valued by the Guild, and to progress through the ranks, besides the many quests given by a number of different NPCs, I had to have desired skills at a certain level or they would just flat out refuse me as being not good enough yet. By the the time I was supposed to become the Archmage, I was an actual mage. Imagine that, lmao.

[@SereglothIV]

That's what I loved about Morrowind. It had so many RPG detalis, while each next game was more and more casual. I love all three games (Oblivion, Skyrim and Morrowind - that's the order I played them) but it's hard not to see the decline in certain aspects.

[@SwedishEmpire1700]

Bro we are never getting that back ya know, Todd "Knights ride around killing things" Howard made sure of that. If we are lucky TES 6 will maybe have everything derped down into 4 skills like Blunt, Armor, Shit, Sneak

[@qwertymine6139]

I've always wondered if the events of Skyrim happen as is BECAUSE we are Dragonborn. Like we're the person in Kodlak's dreams, or the Listener of the Nightmother because our inborn will to dominate(As stated by Paarthurnax) doesn't always mean it's us consciously dominating things, but the world kinda bends to us regardless. For example, the arrival of Alduin in Helgen. What if the world, or perhaps time, was bent to release Alduin when the Dragonborn was in trouble. That's why Alduin just so happened to attack when he did. Or when the Psyjic Order says you alone can change the future, it's them being bent by the world, or them realizing the that Dragonborn has an innate ability to dominate whatever situation they're in. Maybe that's a little far fetched, but that's how I rationalize us being able to join and lead guilds like the Dark Brotherhood and Companions, or be the Champion to multiple Daedric Princes at the same time. The world, and perhaps even those beyond, are being bent by the power of Akatosh held within us, and it's why the Dragonborn is often so strong(Like Miraaq, who made a shout to dominate the very wills of others).

[@thesittingtraveller3467]

So the Dragonborn is a canon Gary Stu/Mary Sue?

[@qwertymine6139]

@@thesittingtraveller3467 Being a child of the Dragon God of Time has its perks I guess

[@everettw.9610]

I will say that the way Bethesda has gone about this before, from what I recall, is that while we as the player get to do all the fun guild things, it canonically isn’t the protagonist doing it - it’s just some random person. So in the canon of Skyrim, the Dragonborn isn’t the one leading the various factions; you just play through them because it’s more fun that way. So in canon, the person who saves the College is just some random person, separate from the dragonborn and the people who go onto lead the other guilds

[@funnyvalentine4078]

​@@everettw.9610so you're saying our actions mean nothing

[@everettw.9610]

@@funnyvalentine4078 I mean, yes and no. If anything, it's a way Bethesda protects the player's choices. In Skyrim, the Hero of Kvatch is barely ever mentioned, if at all, because of this principle. If the Last Dragonborn was also, canonically, the Archmage of Winterhold, Listener of the Dark Brotherhood, etc etc, then that is honestly pretty wild and there's no reason that that person isn't as idolized as much as Ysgramor or the likes. In TES you get to choose every aspect of your character, and having the world where your character does everything you could possibly do in the games puts a lot of pressure on the lore to specifically name the Last Dragonborn, invalidating the basic premise of creating a character

[@fishfish7590]

How about ancano, a thalmor being in winterhold in the first place considering it's under stormcloak occupation

[@jackmendez1367]

The College didn't take sides in the war and as long as he wasn't a prick to them he was as welcomed as any one else allowed in the college. Kinda shady but yeah since no one even trusted him anyways.

[@Facelauss]

Johnny Silverhand he could have traveled through portal possibly

[@joshualittlewolfe8550]

Johnny Silverhand or just threw on a cloak and moved covertly. The storm-cloaks aren’t the brightest.

[@JackofNoTrades634]

Early on they fought the empire and nearly won, they signed a treaty the White Gold Condrat I think so they can pretty much go anywhere they please thats why they can capture and kill people without consequence. And the Winterhold College didn't take sides in the war

[@smjaiteh]

My theory: He’s been there since before the beginning of the civil war, and has been stuck there for years. He couldn’t actually leave, since he’d be killed. He goes mad because he is stir-crazy.

[@TheStigma]

The college of Winterhold is just shallow - that's it basically. It clearly didn't get the time and effort it needed to be special. It somewhat extends to some of the other guilds in Skyrim too, but COW was definitely the weakest overall. Aside from just the college itself (and it's questline) needing to be fleshed out you need a feeling of progression. A sense that you are climbing the ladder from a rookie who is just learning and doing basic tasks, up through the ranks and unlocking more privileges as you go. Start off in a shitty bunk-bed room with 3 other students of questionable quality to begin with and have to work at it to become a proper member. Also I think it may actually be better if they don't always end up making you the guild leader in the end. It's just so unbelievable that you would become the top authority in the sort of timescale we are playing in - especially since you will always be an adventurer primarily and not a school headmaster. As a headmaster there's really nothing for you to do to fill that role anyway, so it just break the illusion and makes you realize the college is shallow and static. It's more than good enough if you reach a high rank second only to the archmage that only one or two rivals hold. I think a great idea for any guild once you "complete it" is that the leader suggests you have learned what you can from this place and recommends you to practice your skills in the world to grow more. To facilitate this they will keep a lookout for interesting opportunities and relay this to you. This would essentially be a radiant quest type that dynamically points you towards questlines you haven't yet completee. The leader will tell you they have heard about something interesting - say a few lines about the rumor they heard and drop a hint or two as to the nature of it - and then send you on your way. Each guild-type could prioritize questlines that vaguely fit the theme although there's plently of room for overlap. The archmage might suggest exploring a dwemer ruin in the name of gaining knowledge, but the thief leader might suggest the same in the name of uncovering great treasures. I feel this is a very low-cost way to add more content as it only costs a bit more dialogue. Put a reasonable in-game time limit on it so it's clear you aren't really supposed to chain-perform these quests. Instead the intention is that each time you go home to your guild you will feel that it still has something new to offer rather than being just a static house with a couple of merchants from whom you have already bought everything that was interesting and unique. Write in some camaraderie and rivalry too for the classic "hogwarts" experience. Maybe some of the initial rookies you join the ranks of also manage to advance at a similar pace that you do. At least it would make it feel like something is changing and progressing, and those characters can easily be spun into sub-plots in various ways. All in all there's no shortage of thing you can do to make guilds awesome if you just put in the work for it - this one just felt rushed.

[@SatoshiKong]

This comment is excellent and deserves much more attention.

[@MediumRareOpinions]

Perfect example of how radiant quests can be appropriately applied in a way that enriches another part of the game! I agree becoming leader is a poor choice on Bethesda's part, because there's no way for them to really make that position feel appropriately involved. I feel like the Factions should also be somewhat encouraging the player to take in their role as Dragon born more actively. Offering to train you and possibly offer assistance, but all the while knowing you have more a important destiny. A quest on the main story of the game that opened up optional paths where factions you've advanced with could be chosen to Aid you with the Dragon Crisis would be really cool and it would sort of make the side quests feel validated as part of the heroic main quest and not some distraction.

[@Cacao613]

Given how shitty magic is, especially desteuction magic, is it any surprise the college where you learn magic is shitty?

[@autisticduck3071]

I remember seeing the COW in the distance and thinking "that's a bit smaller than I expected I'll hardly get any steak for my restaurant"

[@Balila_balbal_loki]

the greybeards send you to an ruin or dungeon like you said but to look for a shout idk why it couldn't have been implemented in skyrim too in other factions

[@joshDammmit]

No, it doesn’t “kinda” suck. It absolutely does. It’s easily one of the worst quest lines in the game.

[@Theevilrhino]

How is it any worse/different than the other faction quests? Companions - become warewolf, never having to actually transform into one, fetch quests, get rid of warewolf. Dark brotherhood - “assassin” with no sneak skills going in guns blazing “good job”. Do 3 filler assasination missions with no backstory to take time, kill emperor who puts up no fight and then hand over the exact payment to level an underwhelming hideout. Thieves guild was at least more “interesting” but at no point am I required to actually be a thief in any sense. I pickpocket one thing and then like sneak into a few houses ut praised by nocturnal r/pog. In every case you’re handed an imaginary title with no real power and hailed as the king regardless Of your skills. Each one is almost exactly the same in my eyes \o/

[@gandalftheantlion]

@@Theevilrhino these "guilds" is like mary sue/gary stu simulator, you don't do a whole lot of things and get instant recognition as "amazing!"

[@loganricherson]

@@Theevilrhino at least with the thieves guild you have to actually do tons of small missions in each of the holds to be formally recognized as guild master

[@PeteyVon]

True

[@MrSkeltal268]

The story is garbage too. Savos Aren, the arch mage both thinks the augur of dunlain is Tolfdir making shit up, but also takes you at your word when you say you spoke to him. He also claims to know nothing about the eye of magnus, but then tells mirabelle before he dies that he knew she/me would need to go to labarythian?? Like what the hell??

[@Bonk4Me]

Winterhold Illusion Master: "Am i even invisible?" Some Khajiit student in the Mages Guild: "its just a prank lmao"

[@RoninWaffle]

7:43 "...not sure if he's still invisible or not." Meanwhile, some guy in the background suddenly pops out of invisibility.

[@lucianpendragon1458]

Exactly. Drevis is an obvious case of college nepotism. They guy is an incompetent buffoon.

[@azraelselvmord3650]

Not a spell "Pop in" It's a feature.

[@VSO_Gun_Channel]

I am of the opinion that all the colleges in Skyrim suck as a pejorative representation of the state of higher education these days

[@MisterJoshuaTree]

Extremely underrated comment

[@mrhalfwit972]

found the American.

[@gregorybarker8835]

Ah man. This comment came off as pompous and pretentious as hell lol

[@mrhalfwit972]

@@gregorybarker8835 which one

[@exittierone]

"All the colleges in Skyrim"

[@landonhawk1685]

You could literally know 2 spells and become the arch mage....

[@snape6156]

You literally only need to ever learn: lesser ward, frostbite and flames. The only other time you might need another spell is getting access to the bridge but even that can be circumvented

[@Dheops]

Squiffles go watch one of ymfah’s video,he became the arch mage without learning any spells

[@snape6156]

@@Dante101Virgil Yes I am aware of ymfah, but I meant if you played through it without purposefully trying to avoid magic. You could be the average player just using a sword and shield and simply use those spells as and when required and become arch mage. Ymfah takes it to a whole new level

[@Theevilrhino]

Snape I mean I finished the thieves guild as a mage with like level 22 lockpick 16 pickpocket and 15 sneak...These are skyrim “problems”that aren’t unique to any one guild. You are given honorary titles that mean nothing, attained in a day or two, regardless of your actual skill distribution..I’m just shocked they didn’t let me become a Jarl for more meaningless power

[@hmm7829]

On one of my first few playthroughs of Skryim, I was playing as a tanky, armoured warhammer weilding Nord. To actually get into the college, I chugged an extra magika potion to cast the thing Faralda wanted me to do. Lesser ward, frost and flames, were the only spells that you actually need to complete the quest. I otherwise got through the entire thing by crushing everything with my daedric warhammer. Made some of the fights especially sad. Morokei who drains Magicka was pretty funny for this reason. Ancano was also a complete joke. He couldn't hurt me because I had also gone for enchanting all my armour to resist all kinds of magical attacks. So all destruction magic was virtually useless on me. Plus I had my health regeneration boosted constantly due to my armour and lifesteal enchantment on my warhammer. The whole questline is arguably a lot easier if you aren't a mage, because more often than not, your biggest foes will better counter you if you use magicka.

[@sunningdale3478]

I liked how in Morrowind, the Mage's Guild quest givers would only give quests to you based on your rank. So you would need to increase your skills before you completed all the quests. In Skyrim you can do all the quests without learning much magic at all.

[@lichofthewilds4384]

I think that no guild should make you the leader by the end. It always feels weird when the boss man is doing a menial task.

[@aickavon]

at least with teh companions you see them out there DOING stuff from time to time.

[@ziedyee]

I mean, they could *offer* you to be their leader at the end but you couldn't accept either way and automatically are forced to decline since you are *new* and you are *the fucking dragonborn*. Seriously. A leader should be present at the headquarters and lead the troup. The former archmage was always present in the college. Now you are the archmage and have only few reasons to visit the college once more. I always feel weird when I walk by it and get greeted with the title of arch-mage. Also, the title should have more impact on others. I know guards tell you that you messed up but I got a quest (after already being the archmage) to steal some staff because someone wants to pretend to have good relations to the college. Seriously, he asked the ARCH MAGE of the college for an item so he could pretend having relations to you..? Why not just establish good relations with you after you've become arch mage. Ugh..

[@Lanoman123]

Aickavon the Techpriest yeah I ran into them randomly near Riften

[@Niobesnuppa]

I agree, it would make much more sense to become the second-in-command instead. Especially since as the Dragonborn, you're not going to stay in one place for long anyway.

[@mikoto7693]

Bethesda really needs to find a dictionary that explains what "Leader" actually means and entails. This is a problem in most of their games including Fallout 4. Heck in Fallout 4 its worse. First, there's a militia called the Minutemen who have been basically rendered extinct. Only one actual Minuteman, Preston remains when you meet him and rescue him and four villagers from baddies. He asks you to join, you agree, you save a couple villages and he makes you "General of the Minutemen." A largely hollow title at the time and its up to you to make it real by bringing the Mintuemen back from the brink. You singlehandedly go about recruiting more people and settlements to your cause and eventually become a large faction. You even retake the old abandoned old Minuteman HQ back. From there...... things stop making sense. You're now the General of a fairly large and well-organised militia with dozens of soldiers and at least five villages under your command. Preston is your second in command and there's a woman named Ronnie who could feasibly be named your third in command. From that point on you probably shouldn't be doing front line grunt work. You're the General. You should be in your HQ giving the orders and working out tactics. You shouldn't be going to various settlements and villages doing petty grunt work for them and building their settlements for them. Worse of course is the Nuka World DLC. So you hear a radio signal inviting everyone to Nukaworld, a theme park a bit like disneyland except dedicated to nuka cola the equivalent of coca cola. You get aboard a monorail taking you there thinking you're going to be rescuing a family from raiders/bandits. Only you find out its actually a trap, there are three large and powerful raider gangs inhabiting Nukaworld who promptly force you through a long, difficult, dangerous gauntlet before you have to fight their leader, Colter, the Overboss. One of the Raiders sabotages Colter so you win, and tells you that the Overboss is the raider that keeps peace and order between the three rival, squabbling gangs in the park. Colter was doing a bad job so they arranged to have him killed and whomever survived the gauntlet and killed him would be the new Overboss. You. Only the thing is as Overboss you're the one that has to travel between the different section parks of Nukaworld clearing out critters, robots, baddies of all sorts and deciding which of the three gangs gets each park. That's..... really not how being a boss/leader works.

[@dynad00d15]

For the Illusion Master Quest, They could've used the Dawnstar nightmare quest in an effort to reestablish the college reputation within Skyrim's population.

[@maosama3695]

yeah it's actually fitting and if you didn't took the nymera's staff you could recruit the guy who was keeping the staff safe as part of the college , give him a bigger role in the college story like all of this was just a test so that psyjic order can recruit him. in that way if ever TES vi involves the psyjic order again they could use that character. another thing that i didn't like in skyrim is alchemy , it could've been an alternate to magic. instead of learning fire bolt characters could learn to make molotovs or poison gas vile. throwing it into the ground and burst into flames or poison or ice or shrapnel. in that way we could create rogue like characters.

[@F_Luis]

Fun story about the ward spell: I finished the college with actual 0 investement in magic and that lesson was incredibly difficult because I had no magick potions on me. My ward upkeep time was like .5-1 seconds. I cast ward, he starts casting, my ward fizzles, he finishes the spell, I get hurt. After like 10 minutes I manage to block the spell and he immediately dismisses class instead of suggesting I go and learn god damn magic before trying to go to a magic college.

[@darkfoxxbunyip]

"learn god damn magic before trying to go to a magic college" That'd kinda defeat the purpose of magic college.

[@olivermckowen135]

gotta graduate magic elementary, middle school, and high school before you go to college

[@Cronos988]

This is one of the core problems with the design of Skyrim. It's designed so that any character can do any questline.

[@nividicus]

That's not a problem. It's called making your content available to the player. I don't know about you, but I prefer to have access to items and facilities associated with all quests and factions, rather than walling off content due to an artificial shitty rpg element.

[@Kalgert]

nividicus It can be better in a way. At least in the sense that it feels like an appropriate place to be in. I remember in the Dark Brotherhood guild in Oblivion, you had stealth as sort of a must for some missions, but thes were essentially for bonus rewards (Which are optional goals, yes, but they are still part of the quest as a must-have for a guild of sneaky assassins). And for the Thieves guild it was also more or less advisable to be good at sneaking. At least then you had an easier time in getting loot to fence off.

[@mattjohnsen2240]

I feel like the College of Winterhold must have been done towards the end of the development cycle because it feels like there is just a bunch of cut content all around it feels unfinished

[@tomeccles2922]

Come here let me see if I can get those bindings off

[@FudgeMuppet]

+Tom Eccles haahaha

[@nBasedAce]

Tom Eccles If you're bound up then you should take some laxatives.

[@twilliamspro]

Why fid the college not tell you about the forge? I didnt find it until last year

[@DannyMakesVideosIGuess]

Come here let me see if i can get those bindings *O N* ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[@musicalnerd3876]

Mega Gaming omg HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[@maplepuff2358]

My first character was kindof a "Fuck all I want to do whatever I want" because I wanted to see all the main factions and such. Got through the whole College of Winterhold quest line with like all novice spells of which I barely used. Someone with barely any magical prowess becomes archmage because reasons I guess.

[@abigailiawilson5444]

Purifyerino Kripperino Me too

[@ncr_ranger96]

That should be something that happens after you get all of the Master spells.

[@White_Tiger93]

Having started my Bethesda library with The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind and Daggerfall, I've long been aware of the steps backward Bethesda Game Studios has taken with their flagship RPG series. Removal of etiquette from dialogue, homogenizing skills, removing context specific actions like bashing down doors, removing skill requirements for guild advancement, removing spellcrafting, toning down race specific disposition and attitudes, removing the ability to play a class build or start blank, and on and on and on. It seems like the number 4 is a cursed one in the games industry, for Bethesda especially. First there was The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, and now Fallout 4 has fallen flat on its face.

[@airiakizuki5592]

Magic is nearly worthless in Skyrim imo. It needs to be about 5X as strong minimum for me to bother. Enchanting is the only worthwhile 'magic' related option.

[@Lanoman123]

Purifyerino Kripperino only spells I use Are Summon Arvak Arniel’s Shade and Fast Healing that’s it

[@Niobesnuppa]

The College of Winterhold was a massive disappointment for me. When I first started, and I got my own dorm and the lesson, and then a field trip, I was like "Awesome! This is almost like Hogwarts, I wonder what other lessons there will be", but then there's never another lesson again. Maybe it's because I grew up playing the Harry Potter PC games, but I was honestly hoping there would be lessons for each school of magic, lessons where you would have objectives to finish and spells to complete. Basically at the start of the quest, it feels like you're actually a student at a magic school, but after completing the Saarthal quest, that feeling disappears and you just end up doing what you would've been doing anyway; killing evil mages and stealing their stuff. The Immersive College of Winterhold mod halfway fixes this since it adds magic practice sessions with the teachers every morning, but I wish it did more. I wish there were actual lessons where the teachers would tell you stuff and make you use different spells to complete objectives in the classroom and whatnot. The whole Eye of Magnus thing also felt really contrived and unnecessary, in my opinion, I really don't think the college questline needed something big and world-ending, and it felt really out of place for the teachers to ask a student to fix it. You're treated more like a mercenary than a student. Also, the whole "You're super special and we've chosen you to be the headmaster even though you've studied magic for 2 days" thing is beyond stupid.

[@christopheralvarado4544]

Yes I would have loved a more hogwarts like experience. It feels like the students of the COW are an afterthought. I think to capitalise on this Bethesda could have made the college this super exclusive place OR have you REDISIGN the college. I got bored of the whole rundown aesthetic. For the thieves guild sure, but I wanted a more "magical" experience out of the college. Maybe an option to rebuild the college and Winterhold itself to make the place seem more lively would have been cool

[@VunderGuy]

@The Pacifist Gamer *Yawn* More Obsidian NPC's trying to force their way into everything. I hate Bethesda too, but I don't gonna pretend that everything they ever did was trash and that they never did anything better than Obsidian or that Obsidian aren't a bunch of sellouts who sold out to Bill Gates. Also, nice smack to the back of Oblivion, a game whose Mages Guild was actually, *GASP*, entertaining and had enough twists and turns it beats out both the Thieves and Dark Brotherhood questlines here and it is, *GASP*, the weakest of all 4 of the main guild quests in that game! Seriously! Even the FIGHTERS GUILD involves more actual misdirection and subterfuge and is more interesting than the dark brotherhood and thieves guild... and those are traditionally the two top dogs. Bethesda seems to be really good at sucking out the magic of their games, it would seem, in more ways than one. "Most mods on new Vegas are like graphics and just cosmetics...... that says something" Yes... that says that the modding community of New Vegas are vapid and can't create anything that isn't just surface level stuff and matters most, IE, characters and new, exciting things and places to do. To their credit, Obsidian has a less than stellar track record with that too. Just look at Alpha Protocol. And people say BETHESDA was the king of bugs? WOOO NELLY was that bug riddled. Neat ideas, but bad execution. But back to the New Vegas modders, this could also say that they were too lazy to make quest mods. That or that New Vegas wasn't actually relevant enough to justify people spending their lives on making questmods for it. I mean, I know it has good quest mods and some long running ones, so, yeah. I mean... really? REALLY? You're gonna try and argue from the lack of 'quest mods' for New Vegas that this, by itself, means it's the better game? I mean it is, don't get me wrong, but you're gonna argue from a point shallower than the additions New Vegas added to the basic gunplay of Fallout 3? You do realize that if a community likes a game a lot they'll tend to make quest mods for it along with others in the list, right? I mean, if you're gonna argue from questmods that New Vegas is the better game, why can't I argue from the standpoint that Skyrim is the better game because there are more mods IN GENERAL for it and people seem to know about and like it more? Why does your argument from popularity any less valid than my argument from popularity?

[@Patrick_The_Pure]

I join the college, do saarthal and just leave it at that, why the hell would i wanna be archmage and have tolfdir be my right hand. Dude doesn't know jack shit, i'd rather just have Savos and Mirabelle. With Immersive installed you can have Tolfdir be archmage, again why would i EVER want that moron be archmage.

[@Phurzt]

Skill checks need to come back. You shouldnt be able to complete a mage centric quest line without heavy investment into those skills. And it doesn't have to be simple "have x amount in this skill" type stuff. You can get interesting with it. Like maybe add a magical bridge in saarthal that requires a constant stream of the Sparks spell to stay active, meaning you have to have enough points invested into magika and/or reduction of destruction spell costs to make it across the bridge. Could do many things like that.

[@shadowlord1418]

Or potions

[@bajiraosingham9495]

But then people would bitch about How difficult it is to Cross a certain bridge when you're a fucking Dragonborn with Daedrik armor and what not. And how "The Game forces you" to put points in Magicka... People will always have complains.

[@tyrant-den884]

Or potion making and/or enchantment to boost your magika. Or you got them somewhere else representing you being resourceful enough to cheat

[@Phurzt]

@@bajiraosingham9495 yeah, well, fuck those people tbh

[@QuietRage]

11:47 Are we not gonna address the half naked guy standing in the middle of a blizzard?

[@SubieNinja]

failed invisibility spell bro. only worked on his clothes. WHOOPS

[@torinmurphy4120]

LOL, can't breath.

[@danielmarsden4573]

M O D S B R O

[@mattmcclure9368]

Also why is Tolfdir dressed like a roadman?

[@yegor2]

we won't

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

Collage was too bare for me. It was supposed to be the last place for mages of skyrim to be a learning heaven. And it was built by the SHALIDOR himself. I expected much more...stuff in it. Study rooms full of magical mytical stuff A building for every school. I believe a mod do this amazing place justice. I wished beteshda put more though and effort in such a cool place. 3dnpc mod do skyrim NPC'S jusdice as well. Honestly some people who doesn't even work with beteshda do better jop creating things for skyrim then beteshda themselves.

[@aretordedllama5271]

Not gonna lie, it was kinda bare but I do disagree with a few things: 1) There is study rooms, the library and your own room is full with gems, paper and many alchemy ingredients 2) A building for every school would be cool but, would also be annoying for quests. Let's say you got a quest from a destruction master and they need you to give some fire salts to the illusion master, which they are in their own separate building of teaching. You would have to go into 4 loading screens(Leaving the destruction building, going into the illusion building, leaving the illusion building then finally going back into the destruction building) You might have an amazing PC but others, like myself don't have that(I can only go on high quality which the loading screens are 10-15 seconds(Yes I'm that pathetic :) ) ) 3) I completely disagree with this one for sure. All they are doing is adding one, or even two things(Except with the Bruma mod) they worked on an entire team with about 100 people, which by today's standards are quite small (1000+ is what I hear but I feel it's more 300-500)

[@PhaethonCrafts]

I can’t decide which quest line I dislike more, the Companions or the college? They are both pretty bland and disappointing.

[@thelizardwizard1113]

How did you manage to misspell Bethesda multiple times?

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

The Lizard Wizard thank you!! I was typing on my phone and english isn't my fist language and I forgot how to spell it. Sorry 😅

[@thelizardwizard1113]

beril şevval bekret all good mate 😁

[@Icebergslim91]

Tbh I think most of the guild in Skyrim are average. The pacing is horrible 1 minute you are doing some tedious task the next you are saving the world. Oblivion did the guilds so much better.

[@kaustuv5682]

Companions were the worst though

[@massaweed420]

Yeah, the companions quest line was almost laughable. Fun for sure the first time you play through it, but once you realize how short it is, it becomes a lot less enjoyable.

[@amaevingketchup]

At least Oblivion was made by the Bethesda. For Fallout fans we have to deal with people saying Obsidian can do no wrong

[@RhadaGhast100]

Another thing I don't like is how most of every faction minus the college has you swear yourself to a Deadric Prince which completely ruins a lot of roleplay value since an average character wouldn't even consider it. Biggest insult to this is the Theives Guild. Like I'm a thief, I don't fucking care about this Nightingale shit I just want to get paid.

[@nividicus]

*Cough cough* The fighter's guild was just the menial task league, and the mages guild recommendations were a fucking chore and a half, for yet another rather short questline. DB was better imo tho, as was the Thieves Guild (Because you had to actually steal and pawn enough loot to progress) and I liked the simple aspect of the arena.

[@bajiraosingham9495]

It's such a shame that every Mage, Necromancer, Witch that we run into in the Wild attacks us immediately and has to die because of it.

[@lordfilthee8708]

Honestly the master quests could have been multiple quest lines concerning the different elements of each school of magic. Restoration? Start by going and curing some sick people, eventually work your way up to helping entire parties escape dungeons for pay. Illusion? I mean that's ONE good quest, but there could definitely be many more. The college of winterhold just kinda felt slapped together in a rush and it was upsetting because I was looking forward to my mage build in 2012.

[@Epolusgaming-gl2wn]

Filthee Mudblood I would love too more quest, it feels like it's too short :(

[@iamlucidess]

Yes please.

[@exantiuse497]

All the guilds in Skyrim are less impressive than in Oblivion. In that game the presence of the guilds was felt in each city, there was a Mages' Guild and a Fighters' Guild in each of them, the "eyes of the Gray Fox" aka the beggars were everywhere, and even though the Cheydinhal sanctuary was the only one the player visited the Dark Brotherhood was feared and respected wherever you went and it was confirmed they had multiple more sanctuaries and even operated outside Cyrodil. Contrast that to the Companions and College of Winterhold, who while know throughout Skyrim mainly operate in their home city and are much fewer in numbers. The Thieves' guild is chickenfeed compared to the one in Cyrodil, although this is an intentional plot point, and the Dark Brotherhood is now confirmed to only exist in a single sanctuary, and unlike the Thieves guild they are even worse off at the end of the questline, having lost four members and gained three The Thieves guild's decay is acceptable, since restoring it was an important part of the plot, and the Dark Brotherhood might not even exist in the next game so showing it in its last legs is justifiable, but I really would've wanted more from the "legitimate" factions. As it is, they are just a bunch of vikings drinking in their longhall and occasionally going out to fight monsters, and a bunch of mages jerking off in the far corner of the world instead of recruiting new members and obtaining influence despite being possibly the last organization of mages in the world. And the worst part is they remain that way even after their questlines, all we accomplished was releasing Kodlak's soul from Hircine and fixing the axe, and contained the Eye of Magnus, which was a problem the guild started itself. We just restored the status quo, instead of improving something. I really hope we get more relevant factions in the next game

[@doom8274]

elder scrolls with no dark brotherhood? pass.

[@joeschmoe3860]

@@doom8274 Morrowind's Morag Tong

[@alexbrowne9566]

There's no guarantee next ES will follow a linear timeline, it might be a long time before the events of Skyrim, just like ES online

[@rezandrarizkyirianto-1933]

@@joeschmoe3860 The Morag Tong is not so assassin-y compared to the Dark Brotherhood. As a member of the Morag Tong, you can kill someone in the middle of town, in full view of everyone and the guards let you go scot free because it's "legal". As an assassin of the Dark Brotherhood, you really have to use stealth and silently kill your targets, along with a certain condition if you want a bonus. And if you're caught, there will be consequences. I'm not saying that the Morag Tong is boring, it's just that the Dark Brotherhood (Particularly in Oblivion) is the true assassin experience

[@danielw.8356]

All of Skyrim had load of potential with lackluster endings on so many quests, and lack luster bosses. Honestly the only questlines I absolutely felt engaged in were the Dark Brotherhood Quest Line, the Thieves Guild Quest Line, and the Dawnguard DLC (despite all the lack luster bosses as well).

[@chrismarple]

The thieves guild and Dawnguard specifically the snow elves were the most interesting story lines of the entire game

[@Sithisine]

Even the final boss of the game is essentially a joke. You don't even have to attack Alduin to beat him...

[@fulcrum7455]

Dragonborn dlc was awesome as well

[@Z3rostar]

Two things about there not being students there: A) There is another mage school that is offering a faster path to power through evil magic. B) The nords attack and kill mages with impunity. Anyone wanting to join the guild that sank the town into the sea is probably harassed a lot.

[@Theevilrhino]

They also have a main mission about the student who stole books to join some baddies and I believe there’s a side mission to find the missing students. They occasionally reference others who left to perform “unsavory” research. I agree with a lot of the people that are saying there should have been more npcs but they gave the same lazy excuses and suffer from the same problems as the other factions...

[@NWolfsson]

@@Theevilrhino Oh my God, I think you made me realize something... (The moment you join them) The Dark Brotherhood, nearly thriving since they invite in anybody that has enough killing instinct to take on their place= 7 named NPCs, no generics. The Companions, a well-established mercenary guild: 10 NPCs, a few associates. The Mages' college, in a very bad place, with a bad rep but not in shambles: 16 named NPCs. The Thieves' guild, in shambles, nobody willing to associate with them because of their bad luck: 12 named thieves, 7 named associates *in the ragged flagoon* , and unnamed NPCs and supporters outside of the guild... Guys... I think they've built the guilds backwards...

[@evanhansen5064]

@@NWolfsson i don’t think the dark brotherhood would be thriving at all, they’re by far the most secretive and protected of all the guilds because of, you know, murder, and the thieves guild is built on influence and numbers no matter how rundown they are. The companions should definitely be bigger though.

[@NWolfsson]

@@evanhansen5064 IMO the Brotherhood basically recruit you because you managed to get wind of a contract before them (or even, because you took on a contract they wouldn't take because of the contractor not being a solvable individual), and I don't see any indicator that it wouldn't happen more often. But I see what you're saying.

[@DaWizard11]

They totally should have given us the option to join the evil mages

[@andhodgez]

I would have actually loved to see classrooms where the teachers could be found teaching lots of students about all of the different classes of magic.

[@joenesvick7043]

I thought the bard college is worse myself. No achievements. Basically one main quest and three fetch quests. Unless you have mods, no instrument playing. On the bright side, it can be done quickly Skyrim For Pimps Season 2 had a great arch mage task for the collage of Winterhold, cleaning the toilets (really that Out of Balance focal points quest). I’d ditch them all and marry Ysolda too.

[@warriorcatsofmysteryclan2240]

oh, i totally forgot the bard college even existed

[@oddluck4180]

Wait there's a bard college. Oh shit right i got told about it from a dark brotherhoos target.

[@daocvet]

I never even touch the bard's college, that is how forgettable it is lol.

[@plumsink]

I thought that the end of the Bard's College quest line was satisfying, but getting there was not.

[@MichaelClark-uw7ex]

Ysolda has the skooma trade locked down, you would be set for life.

[@antonnery6847]

Lol they make you their leader after a few quests

[@twice1962]

“Your the Arch-Mage now” “Awesome...what do you need me to do?” “...nothing really. Well, maybe collect some soul gems for us. But, no, theres nothing really you need to do. We won’t even really notice if you leave for a few months at a time.”

[@AncientTimes42]

Pretty much every Guild in the game, do some quests, and you're the leader, one of the things that pissed me off about the Game.

[@MoonPatch]

That's the case for the collage, the thieve's guild, the companions and BASICALLY the dark brotherhood (technically you aren't the leader but you hold the highest position after the night mother)

[@TheArklyte]

Butter Scotch and if I recall right, in neither of Guild questlines we are requiered to be master in aforementioned skills. Basically we don't officially become Arch-Mage only after we get to 100 in all magic skills, but even if we don't know sh//t about it. Mage leader of Companions and warmonger armored titan as a leader of Dark Brotherhood makes at least SOME sense in comparison, but College and Thieves Guild are the worst here.

[@JustSiouxMe]

Yeah I remember morrowind wouldn't even let you progress in rank if you weren't a high enough level.

[@Randerson2409]

2017 FudgeMuppet: "Wish we knew more about the Augur or Dunnlain" 2020 Camel: "Allow me to introduce myself, and my 3 hour video on the subject"

[@generictoasterstroodle1080]

“I’m looking for a Jizz.....last name Argo?”

[@sappyduke8873]

Yes I love seanzoz

[@artforthewicked4689]

Yeah your test came back positive

[@oaknacht6176]

I've got another three letters here for you

[@dropthebass_123]

ITS J'ZARGO

[@nightmaredarkzone4219]

ITS JZHARGO

[@c.a.1506]

The College of Winterhold: "Come to us as a student, Leave us as a chancellor"

[@Liam-rz3wl]

Mages Guild: Hey well teach you a lot of stuff. Also mages guild: You learned a few spells, did a few things, and now you definitely deserve arch mage more than Mirabelle, or Someone like that

[@Pond721]

I would honestly love it if the college was actually like a college. I wish we had classes to go to and learn. It may be weird but I want a school simulator type thing.

[@trellwilliams6607]

Pond sims

[@jurgenwind]

boringgggggg

[@arcader8138]

That’s the exact reason I went to the college. I wanted to become a better mage! You will not believe how disappointed I was to learn that there was an actual questline.

[@prime_optimus]

@@jurgenwind Magic is boring?

[@David-un4cs]

I think the way lessons and teachers work should be changed. Instead of just advancing you a level there should be perks that are only available through instructors. So if you go to the college and participate in practical lessons and tests, and pass, you get a unique perk. The college could've had a sparing hall or even done lessons around Skyrim. There's ways to make lessons more interesting than just holding up a ward. Mods like Ordinator or Sacrosanct showed how underdeveloped the perk system was too.

[@clinteastwood1629]

I really like the idea of arcano being the good guy and the archmage being the villain

[@aeringothyk5445]

Magic in general was really disappointing in Skyrim. Yeah it looked prettier and was more streamlined, but had almost no depth. It just felt like a bow and arrow skin. I just feel like magic should require some pretty insane tasks to improve with a very very high ceiling of mastery. Magic should be special, and very powerful in the hands of a dedicated student. And that student should be required to do difficult but rewarding tasks to improve their abilities. Not just repetition, but study and adventure. Finding artifacts, consorting with Daedra, sacrificing souls, secrets! There’s so much potential for that gameplay but it was just so shallow.

[@mirelion5328]

@Dance Electric Morrowind 100%

[@DaShooter12]

This. Outside of some daedric weapons, magic should be the strongest build in the game. Anything similar with weapons should require very special and difficult to acquire weapons.

[@void9399]

@@mirelion5328 Morrowind? in Morrowind you do nothing to win spells, you buy. At least in Skyrim you had to do some kind of special mission to win the master-level spells. Especially those of destruction.

[@void9399]

@Sky Dome Hahaha no. The quests in Morrowind are the worst, most are fetch quests. You can make the comparison of the mission of the fighters' guild where you must kill some rats. Basically, the same mission is present in Morrowind and Oblivion, but in Oblivion a better “story” was made for that mission. In Morrowind you only go and kill the rats, on the contrary, in Oblivion you go and discover that in reality, these rats are the woman's pets, so you have to kill some lions, then you go with a hunter to kill the rest of the lions outside the city, and in the end, when you return with the woman, you discover that there are still more lions, and that an Argonian is the one who is putting meat to get the attention of the lions, and there you can decide if you accuse her, or keep the secret. The fact that the guilds demand a certain level of skill serves to increase the immersion, but that kind of demand conflicts with the guilds of Oblivion and Skyrim, since in these two games, each guild had its own plot, so, stopping that plot just to demand a certain level of skill would have attacked the "passing" of the guild plot. In addition, you can play with a character specialized in the skills demanded by the guilds. No one forbids you. For example, if you play as a wizard in Skyrim, by the end of the missions of that guild you should have at least one school of magic at an expert level. So it doesn't make much sense to bring this up. No, the ability to create your spells in Morrowind is not designed to have better spells, it is designed to create spells that are cheaper in terms of the cost of magic, and to have more success rate. In Morrowind you don't need such strong spells because almost all the characters have a very small amount of life. For example, Dagoth Ur has a total life of 300 points, on the contrary, Alduin's life in Skyrim may vary due to levels, but is usually higher than 2000 life points. Of course, the failure of your spells gives a sense of immersion, and you can say that even feeds the sense of progress because at high levels, you tend to be more successful, the problem with this is that in the first place, it is not the only way in which you can give the player a sense of progress. For example, in Skyrim, thanks to the perks, you can unlock more skills, and this gives a better sense of progress, because you not only increase your ability to perform a simple spell, but you learn new skills, which not all characters In the game have. And on the other hand, this type of mechanics that was present in Morrowind was a “headache” for anyone who wants to play as a pure wizard, since the spells were very expensive, and the failure of only one was already something that put you in trouble. Basically, you have to abuse the “rest” mechanics if you want to play as a pure magician, especially since the alchemy ingredients that restore magic are usually very rare and very expensive. So it was not a very viable option either. So the Oblivion and Skyrim system give a better sense of progress without "punishing" the player.

[@void9399]

@Sky Dome No, fetch quests are kept until the end of the guilds because almost none have a plot, and because the same quests are designed like this. I didn't say there weren't any that were good, but most are fetch quests. I already gave you an example of basically the same mission present in Morrowind and Oblivion. If you like, we can analyze several missions of different guilds. Therefore, I recommend that you do not make free statements, because they are discarded when you do not offer any kind of evidence or argument that supports them. Well, in the guilds of Oblivion and Skyrim they also feel like jobs. In both games they send you to do a bit simple missions at the beginning, and later more demanding ones. The only difference is that they are better developed than those of Morrowind, and usually have a plot that they develop through these quests. An example of this are missions of the mages guild in Oblivion. You have to go to each city to do some kind of work for the leader of that place, and they are usually simple but interesting quests, they don't just fall into a fetch quest. And in the end, you get more advanced missions that require killing the necromancers. Something similar happens in Skyrim. You start exploring some ruins, then they send you to recover some books that another member of the College stole, and so on until the end, where you need to defeat the Thalmor. And in Skyrim they also added the "radiant quests". These missions are the "fetch quests" in the game, although they already depend on the intention of the player. If you want to increase the guild history time and feel it as a "job", you can go and do these quests. For example, at the College of Winterhold you can go and retrieve books, or deliver enchanting equipment to the Companions, etc. Hahaha, no, you had no more options in the Morrowind quests. The entire saga of Elder Scrolls has never been known as a saga that gives you many decisions, since it is not its purpose. You find that in games that are based on the “choose your own adventure” books, while Elder Scrolls is more based on a “novel” form. Those games are like Dragon Age or Fallout. Try to mention just three quests where you have a wide variety of options. You make the free statement that the magic in Skyrim is bad, and the same with the guild quests and the game's history. Grant evidence and arguments that support your claims, because otherwise, they are simply discarded with the Hitchen’s Razor. Your only argument was that spells don't do much damage. First problem with your argument, and that is that you are only taking a magic school to make a generalization about the whole magic system. The second problem is that you seem to forget that in the higher levels of difficulty, you do less damage, and the enemies do more to you, no matter what skill you choose, magic, sword, bow. But the magic of destruction offers you the ability to “stop” your opponents by occupying a spell with both hands, which allows you to avoid being approached while they continue to take damage. You also forget that if you occupy ice magic, you also cause your enemy to lose fatigue, so that he cannot occupy his best attacks, and also make him move slowly, allowing you to easily circumvent his attacks. To this add that in Skyrim the capacity of movement was increased, so if you are not occupying armor, it is very easy that you mock the attacks of your enemies until your magic recovers. There are also many alchemy ingredients that help you recover the magic, and to that you can add the ability to enchant your equipment and even reduce the cost of magic to 0%. If the magic damage increases, they would have caused it to be OP, and with it the entire combat system would be broken. Again, in Morrowind you can't do “better spells,” because they demand a lot of magic. If you do very powerful spells, you spend half or more of your magic, so it doesn't have in-game functionality. Also, the more powerful the spell, the less the success rate. Stop playing Morrowind with mods and play the vanilla version so you can realize this. And in Oblivion the magic system has positive and negative things, but not because of the system itself, but because of the level system, because although you could do better spells, and by that I mean stronger spells, you had the problem of level scaling of enemies, which came to have an exaggerated amount of life points. Therefore, it didn't matter if you managed to create more powerful spells, because your enemies had such a large life bar, it seemed like you were tickling them. In the end you make other free affirmations and do not give any evidence or arguments that support them. And no, Skyrim is an ARPG (action role playing game), the same as all the main titles of Elder Scrolls, and this is because they are games with real-time combat, while an RPG usually has a combat system by turns. Morrowind is a bad game in that section because still wanted to implement some dynamics designed for a turn-based combat system, when in fact it was an ARPG. That is why it has a lot of criticism in this section. Oblivion brought improvements in this, by eliminating the dynamics of Morrowind percentages and increasing movement capacity. Skyrim still increased this in different sections, and created advantages and disadvantages for different types of magic and weapons. Therefore, Skyrim has the best combat system in the saga, since as I said before, Elder Scrolls is a saga of ARPG, not RPG.

[@williammell845]

You bring up a great point about the master spell quests. How much more immersive would it feel to have Tolfdir be acting Archmage while you are granted the highest non-archmage rank. Then you are able to travel to Artaeum through the aid of the Psijic monk who only trusts you and won't teleport anyone else there, but has decided to stay at the college for a little bit longer to ensure there are no lasting effects from the Eye of Magnus. In Artaeum you could be confined to a relatively small area since you are an outsider, but you could purchase expert level spells here. The Master Spell quests should also be performed in Artaeum as a challenge set forth by one of the Psijic Monks to proof your understanding of magic. When you obtain the Master Spell you can speak to the College of Winterhold's resident expert in that school and they will support your bid to become Archmage which you can trigger by speaking to Tolfdir once you have the minimum amount of support needed to be chosen. You only need the support of half of them to become Archmage, but you could get different dialogue based on if you trigger the final step with unanimous support or only partial support. This would let you roleplay as a master of all magic or as a master of just a few schools. Just my quick thoughts on rewriting the ending of this questline to become so much more epic.

[@thefbi9581]

William Mell just remember there was four people working on the game

[@Muggsy259]

We need a mod

[@RoosterFloyd]

Zer0 Gaming Actually there was 5, you forgot the Khajit they hired, he mostly showed up high on skooma trying to sell his wares to those who had coin, but he was a huge inspiration that led to the amazingly faithful representation of the Khajit people that the game is praised for to this day.

[@lucianpendragon1458]

Fucking brilliant. Sad that Bethesda doesn't hire truly creative people like yourself.

[@TheyCallMeReaper0]

To be honest, I had a problem with quite a few of the major factions. Bard's College barely exists, Winterhold College is super bared bones and barely cares if you have magic or not, the Companions try to induct you into their super secret Inner Circle super fast and there is no option to turn down the werewolf blood, the main problem with the Thieve's Guild is how idiotic their introduction is, with the man speaking to you to help him rob and frame other shopkeepers feet away from them in broad daylight.I'm mostly okay with the Dark Brotherhood, even if none of the quests stand their own against the Oblivion quests.

[@Niobesnuppa]

Oh god, the Bard's College. Pretty much every questline in Skyrim has a lot of wasted potential, but the Bard's College especially. It doesn't even have anything to do with music, you're just sent into a ruin to retrieve some stuff, and that's it. The big festival they kept talking about wasn't even a city-wide festival or anything, it was just some backyard barbeque. What a let-down.

[@mikoto7693]

I really, really feel you with the Companion questline. I've ended up never doing it because I simply don't want my Dragonborn being a werewolf even if its temporary. Its just something she would never do. Just like turning into a vampire, even for the Soul Cairn quest is something she would never do. Instead I do the soul-trap thing then make a beeline for the soul gem. I ignore everything else until I recover that first. The thing is, I find a Dragonborn vampire really lore breaking. Vampires are dead. Undead. They have no soul anymore. The thing is that the Dragonborn has the soul and blood of a dragon while everything else about them is mortal of the race you chose at the beginning. My Dragonborn is a female Breton mage for example. Its your dragon soul that lets you do all the special Dragonborn-stuff that you do. Absorbing souls, mastering shouts in moments without effort, being able to defeat Alduin. A vampire-Dragonborn shouldn't be able to do that. Her soul is gone. She doesn't have one. So she isn't a Dragonborn anymore. Even her dragon blood shouldn't work anymore because its dead blood. A vampire is dead. Blood coagulates and ceases to function or retain the same chemical properties when its dead. So, no soul, no blood. She isn't a dragonborn in any sense of the word as a vampire. Literally just an undead body. We know this because curing vampirism requires a black soul, which I'm strongly implying/theorising is replacing yours to become mortal again. So..... how does that work exactly if you're cured? You've picked up a replacement black soul of a random person. It 'aint a dragon soul. I suppose the only explanation for that is that Akatosh turns it into a dragon soul again once it re-enters your body. But either way the whole thing doesn't make sense. Getting back on topic, I don't know really how lore friendly lycanthropy is given you're a Dragonborn. Might be something to research. But yeah all the quests for the guilds seem way too short. And Bethesda still hasn't learnt the difference between "leader" and "grunt."

[@TheyCallMeReaper0]

Yeah, Bethesda seem to have gotten worse on the whole leader/grunt difference if you take a look at the Minutemen stuff in Fallout 4.

[@bigkirbyhj666]

@@Niobesnuppa Hey a tleast in the bards college you at least go after a sonnet of tyrannical king.

[@thomasjenkins7506]

the bard's college actually makes perfect sense. some person shows up at the college wanting to be a member and doesn't play an instrument? what else are you going to do?

[@tigoreonjames9702]

The mages guild just really shows how lazy Bethesda has gotten with their story telling and game design in general.

[@plaidpvcpipe3792]

It's more that the deadline screwed them over. They had plans to include time travel, the great collapse, the psijic order, etc. But the stupid time constraint meant it had to be cut down, same with the Civil War questline, which would've been an actual war worthy of the great characters at the head of both sides.

[@Obla1337]

@@plaidpvcpipe3792 lmao, just look how TES VI is gonna have content removed due to "time constraints" even though they will have had over 10 years of time developing the game

[@plaidpvcpipe3792]

@@Obla1337 it was nothing like that. They literally had to because zenimax were being assholes about releasing it on 11/11/11. They also had but a few years between Oblivion and Skyrim.

[@David-ud9ju]

@@plaidpvcpipe3792 Poor planning is all that is. They knew the dealine and they didn't plan efficiently enough.

[@user-ms5tq1dh7i]

@@plaidpvcpipe3792 they had to hand fnv to obsidian, and obsidian manage to do better in 18 months.

[@notalaeyt784]

Winterhelm is not a city. Its three buildings and a big ass building.

[@thegreycrusader]

Miraak is apparently dyslexic

[@notalaeyt784]

Oh my fucking god i just realized that i typed "Winterhelm"..

[@destroyerblackdragon]

Skyrims a pretty small country. In ingame hours how far does it take to travel from one side of Skyrim to the other? Let's say from Riften to Markarth?

[@abd-qadirgilani8871]

+Pelcogo I've read somewhere that it only takes you 2 hours to WALK from one end to the other. Like, from Riften to Markarth. Walking. Like, Vanilla walking. No buffs, no nothing. In 2 hours. Meanwhile, in Daggerfall, it took you REAL-LIFE WEEKS to get from one end to the other..... while on a horse. That's how small Skyrim is.

[@destroyerblackdragon]

Geez. I don't even think Breath of the wild is that big.