Tactics Ogre Reborn: Why Use Anything When Shaman Exists?

[@CoffeePotato]

I love how despite going in with the goal to talk about the Matriarch, I completely forgot to even cover it here. Or to show the results of just using the Shaman units as other classes. I think I cut out the part about Level 45, which is the brief window where Nature Touch is unique for like 15 minutes during Coda 1. Oh yeah, and 4 of them can't swap elements, so I hope you looked at a drop guide. The other two can get locked into a Light or Dark build if you don't swap beforehand. Light gets almost nothing on Shaman, Dark gets the basics, but no nature boost....just being a Lich with no cool skills.

[@scarybubblegum5100]

When I occasionally consider using a Shaman for hitting units *really* hard at range in an AoE, I remember I have Lightning Valkyries and Grenade Beast Tamers for that, as well as better literally everything else. And Deneb.

[@courve]

Sometimes I wonder if your brain resents your skull. No entity likes being restricted . Actually maybe you’re a tesseract. I’ll need to do more research.

[@bg-cc6hn]

The big thing I have learned from Lord Potato since Reborn's release is that Utility > Just Bigger Number It is a lesson I am glad I learned, because in a lot of other games (even Tabletops like DND) Utility is king Fencer's are my favorite class in Reborn for that very reason Great video as always Lord Potato 🥔 🙏

[@jonwhite81]

Lich is still my broken MVP after Lord. Ogre blade makes him a nightmare to even petrifying chickens.

[@CoffeePotato]

@@jonwhite81 They can basically do whatever at that point.

[@darkflagrance2810]

The nice part about Valkyries/Rune Fencers as summon spammers (compared to Shamans) is that you can get undead hawkman versions from Phorampa. This is basically a safe autobattle for most of the palace of the dead and even works pretty well against most of the divine generals.

[@CoffeePotato]

Undead Dakka Gods.

[@axel8406]

Another great analysis that will hopefully get people out of using the same units all the time. What i recommend people do is create a duty roster on Excel. Have at least one unit of each class and monster. If you have multiple classes, then they have to be different builds, I.E. can opener terror knight and a terror knight using a wand. Every time you use a unit in a battle, you increase their number. For example everyone starts at 0 and when you use them, it goes up by one. If a unit dies, dont reset. Doing this will force you to use different team comps and will improve your overall startegy and tactics.

[@CoffeePotato]

It won't, but it's fun to talk about!

[@axel8406]

@@CoffeePotato your probably right lol and it's always fun to talk about tacitcs ogre

[@xZeke97]

The real take that was going around the colmmunity is why use anything other when summon and white knights exist, shaman is just the pretty face behind summon and apocrypha but the difference in matriarch, shaman, lord, lich etc is not big enough it matters. Any character that has access to full mage gear (range + staff) and has summon can sit back and nuke the map from max range, that was what broke the reddit and everywhere else, because that strategy is almost fool proof (except HG and the actual hard fights where it falls off), most people never looked past shamans Valky is essentially a different strategy, the mage alternatives are all valid but valkys need to move, and move costs RT, and you can't consistently velocity shift if they are at the front and other mages are at the back, that's why you need mage gear not because of the INT. As for the deneb, spellscraft is a free from iuria, which is part of the usual summon death squad team, she is also the MP battery. As for shaman unlocks, most people that are actually gonna go to CODA do no consider doing shrines as a "cost" its just part of playing the game. Tihs emphasis on "oh shaman takes a lot to unlock" is moot.

[@CoffeePotato]

@@xZeke97 Sounds about right.

[@maverick5169]

Sherri: who are you? Zombie Valkyrie from ch1: I'm you but bulkier and immortal Also I'll never make Olivya a Shaman, her natural base MP with higher than average str make her an ideal candidate for a berserker that spams finishers

[@CoffeePotato]

@@maverick5169 Beef priest!

[@Zahri8Alang]

Me every time Tactics Ogre Reborn James Arnold Taylor every 3 cutscenes minimum

[@TheSamuraiGoomba]

Shaman is good but pretty inconsequential for the way I play Reborn, which is to do a lot of different "runs" at the game. If you play that way and aren't just in postgame/endgame forever, Shaman isn't even accessible until you're nearly done with the game. So in terms of value, what you really want are magic units that you can use for the whole game and who never fall off. The clear winner there is Rune Fencer, unless you are able to grab an early Reptile Matriarch or Patriarch. Enchanters are good while leveling because they can use magic efficiently, not running out of MP and therefore casting every single turn. Every turn, you can cast AoE stun, petrification, single-target charm or chuck out some elemental damage. Ninja is also a viable option. He doesn't unlock super early, but still soon enough that you can move your Enchanter/Wizard over to Ninja and gain access to Great Value summons. Along with many other movement and utility perks related to the class. Draconic magic unlocks so late for Warlock that I don't consider it relevant. Warlock basically doesn't come online until the same time as Shaman. Maybe even later.

[@Pickleton]

Shaman is pretty powerful if you don't want to run Lich. Otherwise, Liches are just better in almost every single way outside of not being able to use Nature's Touch (aside from the ice one). The thing about casters for me, though, is that once you start getting into the late post game where you've got relics and all that, physical damage quickly gains and arguably overtakes magic. The flat damage that magic has tends to make its usefulness hit high notes at the time of upgrade but start the countdown until near-irrelevance. Well, assuming you're not 999INT/MIND through bodyswap.

[@CoffeePotato]

@@Pickleton Mostly it's card stacking. Could Crits and Mags, and those 1-200s become 400-800s. That said... Princess with lucky star does the same using common auto cards.

[@ahmedfalahy9337]

*Summons Team* Cerya: Fire Cistina: Wind Olivia: Water Sherri: Earth Deneb (shaman reclass): Ice Iuria (shaman reclass): Thunder Catiua (princess): Light Denam (Lord/Lich): Dark Just AFK through every battle for relic farming. Oh, and Shamans can equip *Falling Stars* Light Draconic magic that can also exorcise undead. Enemy is immediately exorcised if finishing hit

[@cheesedude-ygo]

I use multiple Shamans if I'm auto-battling PotD. If I'm actually playing, I'll usually throw one in. I'm not here to be optimal - and I'm not sure Shaman even is optimal. For Summoners, I legitimately think Matriarch is better - its just more versatile with spell access and it gets daggers - all of them, not just "caster" daggers. I also found summons to be less useful in the true late-game of CODA 3 and 4. Apocrypha really started to shine more there for me, so Shamans had a bit of resurgence there and I suddenly had a reason to use Deneb. But nothing beats Dark Priest Stinky Set Catiua throwing out Hellhound IIs while spreading debuffs to everything.

[@astralbuddha]

Rune Fencer with 0 MP cost Lv.2 Summons (especially hawkmen units). 🎤💨🖐*drops mic* (Easy to obtain, early to obtain, balanced stat growth, versatile, access to decent gear choices.)

[@Zahri8Alang]

Canopus be quakking

[@stewartbutterfield2661]

Started playing again recently after burning out at release from clearing through PoD foolishly in chapter 4. Currently clearing shrines for multiple copies of tier 2 spells for my 4 shamans and hating it like I did at release... Current farming would be pointless now if I switch them to Valkyrie, though haven't picked up summons yet anyway, so they doing big AoE damage at least for now. First time having all the sisters and lord class though, as had always gone law route on psp and at launch because wanted Ozma before. Trying not to burn out this time, and clear all the routes and recruit everyone and make it to CODA for the first time.

[@CoffeePotato]

@@stewartbutterfield2661 I found the easiest way to not burn out is to just enjoy the fights individually. Goals may happen, but journey over destination.

[@HovJigga]

​@@CoffeePotato I know this is a 2 week old comment, but the thing that burnt me out in addition to what OP said (around the same time) was just that plus trying to plan out the path choices and what routes to take, plus the Lord/Princess choice my first time around. Any advice regarding stuff like that? This is probably my favorite game I've never finished, and I'm about to give it a fresh start, so any advice is appreciated

[@Jraffles]

Shaman have great range, Valks have better damage, Matriarchs better defence, Lich better MP. But a Zombie Enchantress beats them all imo. At the end of the day though, everything is situational.

[@Maroxad]

The shaman is great for quickly clearing maps when using the WORLD tarot. Where burst damage is key. Other than that it basically feels like Fire Emblem Path of Radiance Ike. Which is to say. Sounds nice in theory but once put into practice it becomes rather mediocre. 1. Enemies in Palace of the Dead have significantly more HP. You wont be able to melt enemies with summons, and poison is arguably a better dps tool. 2. Their squishiness really sticks out in late and post game content, where ranged attacks become more common. 3. If you clear PotD, a generic bodysnatch wizard/warlock/patriarch will hopelessly outclass EVERYTHING else.

[@doha057]

Does Nature's touch affect Light or Dark, as far as I remember from the PSP days, they don't, because the skill itself was exclusive to Shaman I think. I just assumed it would be the same in Reborn, however I can't remember seeing anywhere in Reborn description saying it doesn't.

[@Pickleton]

It doesn't. It's the reason why the ice element lich in Pirate's Graveyard is potentially the strongest caster in the game. Other liches are locked into shadow, so they can't get both element benefits and Nature's Touch. The ice lich, however, can.

[@CoffeePotato]

@@doha057 Nope, elemental only, no light or dark.

[@TheRobversion1]

I think i wouldnt call this overrated if the title was "why use anything else that isnt more powerful than shaman when shaman exists?" IMO if we're talking efficiency and optimization here (not fun, personal preference, etx). Theres no point to using the other classes that arent better than the shaman. I mean sure use white knight, lord, etc. I dont see the point though of using a buccaneer for example if the goal is to be optimal and efficient (finishing battles as quickly as possible) without sacrificing XP gain.

[@CoffeePotato]

@@TheRobversion1 I'd disagree. It's not a preference thing as much as a versatility thing. Damage is only one aspect. Having the ability to do nearly the same damage, but not fear or shots, or having the ability to mind control things, or any other form of versatility is just going to be more consistent. Like my old driving instructor said back in the day: "If optimimal is all that matters, why don't we drive around with smooth tires?"

[@Galanthos]

Doing the Shaman quest and enough of POTD to get summons before Hanging Gardens is soooooo tedious, and the mechanics of the Dorgalua fight means you do all that work to make things harder on yourself. Just beat the game. Before getting Summon 2s in San Bronsa, Shaman's hit hard, but not hard enough to one-shot every enemy on the maps in POTD and San Bronsa before getting ganked. You still need to be running some frontliners to keep enemies busy. And your frontliners' finishers will do damage competitive with Summon 1. So basically All Shamans All The Time is "optimal" in ... CODA 2. After which the "optimally efficient" party immediately shifts to 12 ogre-bladed Liches with max stats. Which is optimal for ... CODA 3 and part of CODA 4. After which you are going to want to run just the 3 Amigos for the final battle. The Shaman Hype is basically like asking why summons other than Knights of the Round exist in FF7, since it does so much more damage than anything else. Ignoring that you get it at basically the end of the game and still have limited uses of it if you don't do so much tedious grinding that you may as well have just finished the game.

[@TheRobversion1]

@@CoffeePotato As we say in DND, "dmg solves." Theres a reason why most optimal parties contain white knights and shamans. Dont need all that versatility when the threat is dead. By definition, optimal is whats best for the situation. If a specific mission calls for a certain tactic, then you include that specialized unit. But when its a flat-out kill this enemy before it kills you bag of hp/defenses, theres no point in carrying anything else aside from the most efficient units when it comes to killing things. That means high-end dmg, action economy (extra turns) and going ahead of said enemies (kill them before they do anything).

[@TheRobversion1]

@@Galanthos thats fair. I mustve missed the part where this was supposed to be for main game only. I agree before summon 2, shamans arent the most optimal. You could say in my comment i was referring to the time between close to the end of the main game until coda 2. I didnt bother with the ogre bladed liches stuff or body swapping/max stats. I also think you misunderstood a bit of my comment. I was saying why use shaman over anything else when thinking of "free" party slots. For example: Do i have my frontliner? Check Do i have my support? Check Do i have my healer? Check Ok i have 4 free party slots. What do i fill those up with? In my experience, the best dmg for most of my playthrough was shamans. I see no point in using another unit like a buccaneer or whatever in those free slots when i can fill up those free slots (assuming i have all my other needs covered) with shaman/summons.

[@Galanthos]

@@TheRobversion1 That's fair. If we are talking about the point in time that Shamans are actually useable they aren't a bad choice. I guess for me, rather than filling my leftovers with Shamans, I had a core deployment of Lord, Dark Priest, Lich, and whichever elemental Shaman would counter most of the damage on the map. Since I wanted to keep Iulia as Songstress, and Deneb as Wicce, I subbed in Matriarchs for a dedicated Lightning or Ice summoner. Lord is like a Shaman that can run Phalanx and Lament of the Dead instead of doing a bit more damage. Dark Priest is like a shaman than can spread silence, curse, and poison automatically and also manually cast poison to chip away Golems and Dragons that have their defensive moves procced instead of doing a little bit more damage. Lich is like a Shaman who never runs out of MP instead of doing a little bit more damage (which ends up with more consistent DPS because they never have to spend a turn charging.) And Matriarch is like a shaman that can just no-sell attacks from those birds that rush past your front-line, instead of doing a bit more damage. Kill Them before they Kill You only works when you can kill them ALL before they can kill you. If you can't one-shot enemies (and often Shamans can't because their meditate or Nature's Touch didn't proc) it's best to be able to mitigate that damage. Heck, in San Bronsa I found running a Griffon or a dragon a much more valuable party member than an additional shaman because all of the high damage attacks from enemies I couldn't one-shot could just be absorbed by the HP Sack.

[@sethsgamingandstuff]

Yup they're Overrated lol How bout Knight commander? Ik Ozma is great, but Imo not as great as everyone says, With Spell access they can't take advantage of

[@TheSamuraiGoomba]

She's pretty good but there's only one of her.

[@sethsgamingandstuff]

@@TheSamuraiGoomba pretty good, but not as good as people say