Pathfinder: WotR - Ranking 199 Classes Part 20: Skald & Archetypes

[@migosname]

I actually prefer the Herald of the Horn over the base Skald for the Main character because arcane bond object works with mythic spells. Getting one extra use of a skald spell is ok but getting one extra mythic spell is really nice depending on your path.

[@SlanderedGaming]

That's a FANTASTIC call out. Wouldn't have changed my ranking but definitely good to note.

[@mediumvillain]

That's interesting to know and I wouldnt have expected it since a lot of spell modifying class features dont work with mythic spells. I made a Herald of the Horn mercenary late in the game once just experimenting bc it seemed like a cool class and I had a bunch of bard/skald gear lying around, but didnt end up using them.

[@SynderFGC]

Absolutely adore playing Skald for Intimidation builds. Absolutely plays up the fantasy of a fearless leader that tears through the enemy's frontline and breaks down their morale.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup fits that playthrough like a glove.

[@dannyacevedo174]

I had a Tiefling Battle Singer that I was doing a RP playthrough that I absolutely loved. I also make Seelah a Court Poet for early levels of my Melee Sorcerer playthroughs so I'm actually pretty happy with their rankings

[@phantomvulpe791]

I love battle singer. Reminds me of Eddie from Brutal Legend when he used his voice to kill demons. Fucking wicked

[@mjw3877]

My favorite Class in the game as a support

[@barubary436]

I figured you might rate Demon Dancer lower, but I know someone who greatly benefits from taking the class: Kestoglyr! Making him a lv 17 Demon Dancer is the cornerstone to my Grave Guards/skeletal army plan. Only one of the abilities for Fiend totem is useless, but the second one is amazing. Imagine 50-100 skeletons with 150hp because of Lich's buffs empowered by a DD skald. Every successful hit against the skeletons causes damage to the attacker, they use reckless stance and the basic song to get a +8 or so to their attacks just from him, and by also picking up lesser fiend totem later you give all of these 50-100 skeletons both a gore and a powerful bite attack. Add haste and they each get 4 total attacks per round, and between the GG's assorted buffs they would have at least an additional +30 to hit! And who cares if they lose AC due to reckless stance, anything with any power at all can hit them, but with buffed HP and communal stoneskin, will they be able to kill more than a couple before they are overwhelmed? I think not. Also, as for the greater fiend totem, would its effects be applied to a good creature for EVERY skeleton? 100-200d6 every round just as proximity damage from my skeletons? It's a shame I can't fight Iomedae before the end, because if that trick worked I would have more than enough firepower to take her on!

[@SlanderedGaming]

😂😂 That's awesome!

[@thecombativemedic521]

So note about court poet. It synergies very very well with the lich and a team of undead. Since cha improves HP and your lich is an innate super spell caster even if you don't take a casting class, the stacking bonus to both cha and intelligence are awesome. It also helps with the low will saves of all the lich undead companions seeing as many of them have poor intelligence and wisdom with core classes that don't give much to will saves. It is a surprise improvement for that team and is especially good for high level necromancy spells. Just my thoughts. Other then that skald is a personal favorite a replacement class for Camilla. It's something I feel fits very thematically but loses alot of the most powerful spells for party buffs.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Nice that's a good call out!

[@phantomvulpe791]

Battle singer is my favorite. Like to roleplay like a rocker with a great axe like I'm Eddie from Brutal Legend. oh man I love killing my foes with my voice. Makes me think my MC is doing a screamo

[@SlanderedGaming]

😂😂

[@Quasikaotick]

So, niche case of something that might be thematic and useful for a couple Skald setups. Trickster with the 2nd and 3rd level Persuasion powers relies entirely on getting your Persuasion check to -insane- heights but trivializes every combat encounter when its really going and those 'half your level as a bonus' features might just push the difficulties this is viable for up a level or two.

[@nicky640]

I just listen to this to hear you say things are bananas hahaha 🤣

[@neiljopling4693]

One OP Skald build is 20 Skald legend with 20 Instinctual Warrior. Share the regular and monk rage powers with the team. You have enough to get ‘em all.

[@austen8718]

If you're playing a natural weapons Demon build, demon dancer is crazy. My team is 4 melee dps, 1 healer, 1 ranged dps, and 4 people getting an extra bite attack, an extra horn attack from fiend totem lesser, and bonus strength are all really nice. At level 18 I do nearly 1000 damage in a full attack if everything hits, and because my strength is so high due to profane gift, being a demon w/ aspects, and being demon dancer, I barely miss. On top of all this there are multiple items that give buffs while raging, one cloak gives the wearer some buffs, another gives an aura that gives anyone enraged some buffs, and there's a helmet that buffs the wearer while enraged. All this stuff synergizes very well, even if only the MC is a natural attacker and the rest are weapon-based melee dps.

[@alex-uw4mm]

last time i checked the endless rage mythic ability didn't work with inspire rage, would be kinda broken considering that you could perma speed up your whole team that way ^^;

[@SlanderedGaming]

That's correct I mixed those up. 😡

[@gregoryshinn9805]

Thanks for the video

[@papervoxels]

Skald is definitely the class that I'm most interested in 🙂 I don't know why, but I've always loved the idea of Battle Bards, which is why I was so negative about the new Solasta DLC, since they chose not to include an analog of my favorite D&D 5e archetype. I want to play WotR now, but I have to wait until I've cleared out my currently installed PC backlog 😆

[@SlanderedGaming]

LOL nice what are you playing now?

[@papervoxels]

@@SlanderedGaming Too many games, honestly lol I'm playing Ruined King and Path of Exile for KZbin, Chronicon and Titan Quest as the currently installed ARPGs that I need to finish, Infinite Adventures and Tales of Maj'Eyal as the currently installed indies that I need to finish, and a handful of CRPGs that I'm trying to knockout before BG3 drops, including both Divinity Original Sin games, Torment and Black Geyser (thanks again for the recommendation!)... WotR would guarantee that I never finish any of those games, which I know to be true, since Kingmaker is the reason that the Divinity games and Torment are still sitting there unfinished 😆

[@SlanderedGaming]

@@papervoxels 😂 nice!

[@SpaceVENTING]

I love base Skald. It's essentially a more battle bard

[@maximillianjayphoenix]

I didn’t expect you to sleep on the potential of the demon dancer bites stacking with natural attackers in your party who focus on bites and/or claws. Actually pretty damn good if your MC is a Natural Attacker

[@SlanderedGaming]

I absolutely agree but how many people are running full parties of Natural attackers? I would argue not very many which limits the effectiveness of that class.

[@maximillianjayphoenix]

@@SlanderedGaming I agree with that this would be good for a demon run specifically

[@moonlight2870]

A lot of the classes in this game sound like they designed the game without multiclassing in mind. Like Skald, Warpriest, Arcanist, and even some archetypes like Mutation Warrior or Vivisectionist.

[@chrispaul7595]

thats mostly a pathfinder thing, multi classing and prestiege classe are there as options if you know what your doing, but unlike 3rd edition all single classes are designed to be usuable throughout the game save wizard and clerics who I always mutliclass I generally avoid it unless I have a specific plan for my build

[@XGifuX]

What do u mean vivi and mutation warrior arent meant to be multi classed. Vivi is one of the best 1 level dips second only to a monk. I agree with the other 3 tho Not trying to be rude just curious.

[@moonlight2870]

@@XGifuX every single class I mentioned can benefit from multiclassinf, but what I mean is that Vivisectionist os clearly a rogue alchemist hybrid and a similar build could be achieved by multiclassing those two.

[@chrispaul7595]

@@moonlight2870 absolutely dragon scion is usually a one dip wonder and honestly I find 3 levels of of beast rider to be enough for a rider class unless you want to specialize specifically in charge attacks. That said I find class progression tends to be more favorable then multiclassing. Although I usuall multiclaaa mages and clerics into loremaster

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup I don't find Pathfinder to be particularly multiclassing friendly. It's kind of weird playing pillars of eternity at the same time since that game is so multiclass friendly.

[@grandlancer]

Battle Scion would be amazing especially as the KC if it didn't lose access to the Extra Rage power feat.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Agreed.

[@addar1989]

my double scmitar skald azata approved it, op af. lethal stance for whole party is crazy

[@SlanderedGaming]

Nice!

[@chrispaul7595]

shame about demon dancer, but other wise I was surprised at how fun skald is, as always when i take classes I usually have a plan for what mythic path I want to synergize with, with skald its basically any. its a fantastic class, will have to take battle singer or herald in the horn in the future, sonic spells are really strong, especially combined with something like wave of ectasy, a spell I both love and hate at the same time

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yeah I never got the appeal of Skald before but doing this video definitely hammered it home.

[@chrispaul7595]

@@SlanderedGaming from what Ive read if you want a demon dancer, your better off taking beast totem, to add bite attacks, outside of that avoiding totems and going directly for lethal/ guarded/reckless stance and the various immunities is the way to go for rag powers/ I honestly feel sorry for the barbarian :D , outside of hp and full bab there is few reasions to take that class as a maine. as a mercerney though ? sure

[@TheRavenShadowsWolf]

Going to point out that Demon Dancer sounds like it was designed for a Demon Run; with either a Tiefling Motherless OR a kitsune MC. Might try it on Ember frankly. She can't really hit the broad side of a barn with her bow (I do not know why they decided to give her a -4 on attack rolls if they wanted her to be good with ANY kind of weapon. I think they wanted her to be a buff bot; or a blaster - but I can't say whether the debuff she comes with makes her spells miss more - and enemies you WANT to hit with powerful magics I find have WAY too much Spell Resistence) * Game was designed with Min/Maxing Gishes in mind - Owlcat decides with WOTR to NOT let the party reset to Level 1 and pick an actually useful class OR subset. [Which effectively means you can properly reset only the first 3 characters you meet and MAYBE Lann as well = you do also meet him at level 1; but I tend to Wendy. What, I like their baconator] Demon Dancer would turn a "natural" attacker into a Monk, without taking Monk. (Damage + per level, instead of stuck at a set upgrade point and being done) I'll let you know if I ever actually finish even ONE playthrough man, but seriously, no jokes: Thanks for all the tips. Regardless of my feelings on some mechanics, they have been helpful.

[@SlanderedGaming]

My pleasure! Glad you have enjoyed the content and looking forward to hearing about your first playthrough. LOL

[@TheRavenShadowsWolf]

@@SlanderedGaming Might have to cross my eyes, fingers and toes... but then I might go blind. Hopefully Gold Dragon'll get 'er done. Then I can move on to my Demon King Run. Which may very well have Ember take advantage of Demon Dancer. What, she's already played cat on a hot tin roof once, Mwhahahaha! (It will be Ironic if I manage it on a Devil run - since I'd prefer to play Aeon or Azata, but I might just have to let someone twist my arm and sign a dark bargain... Maybe that'll work. In my favor, or not... dun dun duh)

[@dalbrecht]

About Battle scion,- why wouldnt you make an intimidation Skald? This one could have the highest reasonable intimitation checks of all classes… and only looses loremaster for it… C is a bit harsh 😉

[@SlanderedGaming]

I almost always have a party member who can use Frightening Aspect so the usefulness of Intimidation Builds goes down considerably. So yeah that type of build works for Battle Scion but I don't think it buys you all that much.

[@notalefty999]

One thing you didnt pick up on with demon dancer. Aside from 3 fewer powers, and the totem power it gets not being useful, the worst part is the totem powers are mutually exclusive. You CANNOT take beast totem for the extra claw attacks for your pets, massive AC buff and the pounce ability.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yikes I didn't even think about that. So it's even worse than what it seems.

[@Tinil0]

I kinda disagree with how you constantly present persuasion as meaningless because other party members can do it. That is maybe important to remember with non-CHA classes, but with a CHA main class I see no reason at all why you wouldn't want to be the persuasive one in your party, especially for roleplay purposes. It's one of the reasons to pick a CHA-based class in my mind. It means you don't NEED any other party member building persuasion or intimidation too, so it opens up options that way. This is mostly a minor quibble though.

[@SlanderedGaming]

I can see your point. If this comes up during Sorcerer I'll word it differently.

[@AncroKT]

Ah, another class so insanely powerful I almost don't like having it around. Yes, I know, that's weird - but to me it feels weird that there's one class that can just solve any melee issue you might have while being such a powerful class in itself. Seriously, giving your whole team an extra bite attack and then the Beast Totem line is crazy WITHOUT also giving you morale bonuses to hit and damage. Maybe I would have been okay with it if a companion had brought the class so that I could have someone with a story attached to it.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yeah it's definitely a game changer.

[@thiagogfalcao]

Has anyone ever tried a Gandalf-like build with a Skald? In my opinion, it would be as strong as Gandalf is supposed to be. But I never figured out what exactly it would look like.

[@SlanderedGaming]

I don't think Gandalf fits with Skald because he's not spreading his rage around to other people. At some point I plan to do a Sorcerer Wizard build with him.

[@thiagogfalcao]

@@SlanderedGaming well, indeed he isn't spreading rage. But I thought more on the side of him being support and a good melee attacker at the same time. The same case could be made for bard and cleric or even paladin. In Kingmaker I ended up using the Evangelist archetype for Cleric (from the CotW mod). Although he's called a Wizard, I really don't see him as a sorcerer or wizard in PF.

[@kellysamuel3383]

Is skald allowed to use spells while in rage

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yes.

[@TheRealNemesisX]

Have to disagree with the battle scion ranking. As you note, it does come online and is more impactful than tactician. What is not highlighted is how useful this is for feat starved classes. It is also incredibly powerful for trickster parties that want to hit the highest theoretical damage outputs, as despite losing some rage powers, trades that combined with trickster, opens them up to saving anywhere from 1-5 feats This is a big deal, when applied to an entire team it's potentially as broken as Trickster was intended to be. Situationally good therefore, which is the entire point of the class - Which is why it's an A.

[@SlanderedGaming]

This is a good call out but I do not count mythic path synergy when ranking the classes. The ease with which Battle Scion interacts with Trickster doesn't help it's ranking.

[@fyzikar12397]

Maybe I should get a mercenary scald

[@SlanderedGaming]

That's what a lot of people do. Unfortunately none of the party members slide into the role easily.

[@aylictal]

Court poet is barely worse than a skald only at level 20. From 1-19 I'd much prefer a court poet. The morale bonus to those stats increases DC of very critical spells like grease, web, command, shout. I don't play on hard or unfair without a court poet because casters are only good for one thing, and thats locking enemies down, and court poet enables them to do that. I've played the game with and without a court poet and man do you really feel the resists on harder difficulties without one. I'd never not run a court poet anymore, even if hes just chilling in the back sitting on bismuth singing.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup for magic heavy parties Court Poet is amazing.

[@sjbell4653]

I totally agree that court poets are awesome, but completely disagree with the idea that "casters are only good for one thing". I play on hard and my casters are the ones doing all the damage in acts four and five.

[@aylictal]

@@sjbell4653 your martial builds suck then. with skald buffs at 20, casters cant compare to martials with proper builds in terms of throughput.

[@sjbell4653]

@@aylictal Oh, ok. I guess you are the only one who knows how to make a good pathfinder build then.

[@aylictal]

@@sjbell4653 I guess you're the only one who knows how to make a high dps caster then. LoL.

[@blackfistxu7953]

👍🏾👍🏾🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@Baraz_Red]

Scald as such is nice... the archetypes are unattractive in general, except maybe Court Poet and Battle Singer.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup Skald is where it's at.

[@awesome27677]

they changed the rangers animal focuses to give an inherent bonus instead in a recent patch. gee no one must be playing that class

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yeah I'll have to look hunter over again.