Baldur's Gate 3 vs Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous (One Year Later)

[@WolfheartFPS]

Interesting vid Slandered! Would love to see Owlcat continue to grow & continue to up the production values without sacrificing their core design philosophies. I love how you are showing your face a bit more in the vids. Definitely adds some contrast to seeing just gameplay! Makes it more interesting to watch IMO.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Thank you! Ironically watching your vids was a big reason why I decided to make the change. I agree it helps to make the videos more interesting.

[@Mike-r4h]

We need a Wolfheart/Slandered joint stream one of these days. Make it happen, guys! 😎

[@GarySamione]

@@Mike-r4h I second that!

[@imranbohari1]

2 of my 3 favorite crpg content creators ❤❤

[@opethmike]

For me, BG3 was much easier to get into, but the longer I played, the more cracks in the armor I found, so to speak. WOTR has been the opposite; it took me a few tries to get into the game, but the more I play it, the more I enjoy it.

[@opethmike]

Particulary, going evil is SO much more fulfilling in WOTR

[@SlanderedGaming]

Exactly WotR gets better the more you play it whereas I feel the opposite about BG3.

[@conradkorbol]

I agree

[@catoblepasomega]

BG 3 has an absolutely fantastic first act, but as it goes on the plot sorta unravels a bit and some of their writing conventions wore thin for me, particularly for playing evil. Thay had a bit of a 'loose' hand with the setting and lore that as a veteran of the original Saga and the setting in general- started to irk me as the hours rolled past. Seeing how two certain returning characters from the original saga were written just sapped my will to finish the game.

[@lordcatpotato]

@@catoblepasomega BG3 first 2 acts is just very good. 3rd act is a little bit boring the more you play. I think it is because level progression is no more in act 3, and the enemy is just too easy in act 3. No challenge in act 3, and story progression a bit confusing in act 3. Aside from that, I could not find any other game like BG3 or WOTR again in the few next months or maybe within a year. Still worth my best 100hr++ gameplay

[@dgem1463]

Pretty much agree with everything you said, 32:42 is 100% true I've played BG3 3 times a good,evil and honour mode run and that's enough for a while. WoTR is just a different beast with Mythic paths and builds and it makes me wonder if we will ever get another crpg with so many options. Especially since Owlcat wants full VA moving forward I'm wondering if it will cost them too much to have so many options again. Great video.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Thanks glad you enjoyed it!

[@jmmywyf4lyf]

I think it's without a doubt going to negatively impact the overall game when they sink too much resources into voice acting.

[@YanChose]

AI voice acting makes it possible

[@UnQuacker]

Owlcat stated that full voicing will not impact their writing and that they'll just allocate more budget without losing the quality. I say we give them a chance before judging.

[@UnQuacker]

​@@YanChosethey won't use AI for VA, though

[@henrychurch6062]

All we need now is a Pathfinder WOTR creation kit like Neverwinter Nights has.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Hmmm never played NVN so cannot comment.

[@adanos4]

@@SlanderedGaming It basically allows you to create your own campaigns.

[@adanos4]

The main reason why nwn is still around.

[@acrab6527]

@@adanos4 and allows you to dm the games for other players as well.

[@CrescentRollCarl]

Another NWN (or Pathfinder WOTR with a creation kit) is the dream.

[@mikejenkins6071]

WOTR's Legend theme alone wins the music category for me! It oozes perseverance through adversity, reminds me of Icewind Dale's theme in that regard. It pumps me up to the point I could fight a horde of enemies going up hill in a blizzard. And I haven't even done a Legend run (yet)! Great video as always Slandered.

[@SirCanuckelhead]

IMO these games are apples and oranges, they are both under the crpg tag but are completely different games. We are 'lucky' to have 2 top tier games that are this diff to choose from. If you like a coop, party adventure, where you explore/experiment/mess around, BG3 is the best. If you like a solo power fanstasy, deep build mechanics then wotr is it. I prefer wotr but love every coop bg3 adventure.

[@SlanderedGaming]

I think both of them can be games where you explore, experiment, and mess around. It just depends on the type of experience you want. WotR isn't a solo power fantasy for me.

[@SirCanuckelhead]

@@SlanderedGaming Any game can be played in any way. WOTR is single player only and it's base design is for you the player to become a powerful being that alters the lands in ways no other beings even could come close, for example the queen leading many failed crusades over many years. BG3 is coop and any member of the party can go off on their own, giving more agency/power to each individual member, as opposed to wotr members only getting power from the KC. wotr does have some hidden things you can discover but bg3 you can spend hours in a random corner doing random things and having fun. WOTR you can click on things on the map that the game lets you.

[@grandlancer]

While BG3 has music I'll never forget, nothing hit me as hard as hearing Mythic Power in WotR that first time.

[@andersonrosa6645]

The scene where it plays for the first time is amazing.

[@grandlancer]

@@andersonrosa6645 Absolutely, my first playthrough I was only level 4 or 5 (I missed a lot of content) and even though I was on normal the fight right before was a struggle. So when I saw the boss it was a "oh crap" moment, then the thing happens and the music drops.

[@Not_CIA]

PF WoTR lets me relive all the hours I spent when I was younger playing Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2. It feels so similar to the 3.5 D&D and has so much depth and scope. BG3 is amazing and fun but doesn't really feel like "Baldurs Gate 3", more like it's own standalone thing. WOTR scratches a bigger itch and I 100% agree its the better game overall. Great video!

[@SlanderedGaming]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@adanos4]

Because pathfinder is based dnd 3.5 ruleset.

[@pepperjam6247]

Man, this comparison hurts my soul. I love them both so much for reasons that are so similar yet so different at the same time. Just yesterday I was trudging through Alushinyrra and I was struck by the thought of how cool it would be to traverse using BG3's jump and flight mechanics. It actually made me kinda sad 😅

[@mihai000000]

u can dimension door a good portion of alushinyrra tho

[@pepperjam6247]

​@@mihai000000 yeah, but I think it's super clunky and not as fun as BG3 platforming. And the fact I still need to do it even if my whole party can fly is silly.

[@steel5897]

Legit one of the biggest issues with BG3 Act 3, on top of what most people point out, is just the fact that at that point you'll be either level 12, or close to it. Being at the level cap despite the game having tons of content left hurts the progression IMMENSELY, and suddenly you have no real reward for completing any of the dozens of confusing quests that act 3 densely throws at you. It just becomes fatiguing and unrewarding.

[@johnroush5731]

I hit act 3 at level 9. I think people tried to do everything in one go in the first playthrough, and overleveled.

[@Zakiel97]

one thing I admire BG3 for is how many ways it has to get creative with the relatively simple mechanics it provides, owlbears stagediving or players throwing a small pouch containing 30 explosives at a boss, using spells like knock or darkness to make progress - there is a lot of fun in BG3 that pathfinder with it's more rigid style can't match. You can create amazing combat builds in wrath and you are absolutely correct that the replay value of that game is insane as a direct result of combat mechanics and story being linked. I feel though like player freedom in how they solve most encounters is sadly a bit more of a railroad in wrath, exceptions here and there of course, but you get the idea.

[@Mike-r4h]

Yup. That's a Larian staple in their games, I don't think it's fair expecting other developers to be as good at it, not yet anyway 😁

[@thepurge7964]

I keep having a hard time getting into WOTR because most of the combat feels like an uninspired hallway fight or a roadblock to slow down my exploration. I am sure that there must be some great, crunchy, tactical combat, but I'm like ten hours in and I don't feel like I've seen it yet. BG3s encounters always felt fresh, unique, and creative with a lot of different ways to engage with (or work around) it.

[@MinecraftMartin]

Great video, still watching. Sad that Pillars of Eternity seems to be slowly fading from this type of conversation. It's great that it's happening because it means we're getting a lot of great new games. I hope we get a Pillars of Eternity 3 some day to get back into the ring. So much potential in the world, its religions, cultures etc. And Obsidian's style of storytelling, leaning heavily into factions and consequences is so much fun.

[@charlestruppi7793]

Was thinking the same exact thing.

[@TheAzureGhost]

Well there is the upcoming first person fantasy game in the same world to dive into it again (i think it was called avowed?, but yea i would preffer another CRPG too

[@grandlancer]

Sadly, I think Avowed is the future (not merely a spin-off) of the Pillars universe. Similarly to the way Fallout 3 shifted from 2.

[@JimmyMon666]

I just finished watching a video comparing BG3 to POE. It doesn't have a lot of views, but it's a decent vid. I do love the world of POE, and especially Deadfire which I found better since it was a little brighter and not as dark and gloomy. Even if the main story of Deadfire was lackluster. As for the future, most likely action rpg's is the direction Obsidian is going to stick with. Especially with microsoft footing the bill. I wouldn't rule out POE 3 completely though, the success of BG3 may motivate Microsoft some.

[@alexcompositionflat]

BG3 is going to be the golden standard for AAA games. WOTR however has more replay value due to the sheer amount of content. Bg3 is the better game at base but I play WOTR more because of more content and higher difficulty.

[@DargorV]

Unfinished/Unpolished AAAs maybe 😂

[@Davide-i3l]

????​@@DargorV

[@arokh72]

Well said mate. I've enjoyed both, for different reasons, but one thing that I love about WoTR is you can completely change the entire game universe based on your mythic path (you can probably guess my favourite mythic path). With BG3, and as someone who played BG1 and BG2 at release, it feels like the real story is behind the durge origin character, but you also miss out on stuff vs a blank slate custom character, or other origin character). Might be time to download WoTR once again, onto my new PC, I got late last year :) Edit: My one big dislike about WoTR is Campaign Mode, which, even though skippable on easy, means you do miss out on some content. As someone who grew with the old school AD&D I do like that WoTR, or Pathfinder in general, uses an old school style D&D ruleset, including alignments that matter and prestige classes, vs BG3s 'easy mode' 5E ruleset.

[@FaolanHart]

The music category has to go to Wrath for the mythic paths alone imo. I've never heard such perfect themes. Dragon conjures images of a majestic dragon soaring in the sky & raining fire down upon evil. You can almost hear the last of your humanity fading away in Aeon's theme. Lich conjures images of your Lich character slowly walking across a battlefield while rising an ever growing horde of undead. Azata conjures images of a merry band of prancing outcasts & weirdos, attracting more to their number to the tune of the Azata's flute. Swarm assaults your ears with all consuming buzzing that's almost uncomfortable to listen to. Legend conjures images of your character rising up, showing the powerful forces they have been dealing with just how capable a mortal is. As an army of unlikely allies follows behind. Truly one of the most hype songs in the game. BG3 has a lot of amazing music & yeah Down By The River is iconic. But the Mythic Path themes alone blow it out of the water. I legit listen to them a lot. Was even listening to the WOTR soundtrack today while playing tabletop with friends.

[@nicbahtin4774]

28:18 Wrath has the best leveling up song. "Mythic Power" hits so well especially as it comes in the most critical moments of the game. assaulting a keep, a fortress the abyss it self

[@cbrock68]

Always thought of them as BG3 quality vs WOTR quantity I love BG3 but I find myself replaying WOTR more for the various mythic paths and that it seems longer since BG3 only has 3 acts with zero dlc

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup WotR has way more replayability.

[@notalefty999]

Hopefully with AI generation of voice acting, over time, there will be some fairly seamless and substantial user made content. Not confident its going to be another Skyrim though. I think it may be just too big an ask of hobbyist to add significant content to the game which actually feels appropriate.

[@Jellygrass]

Well the only category I strongly disagree would be the combat because some advantages you did not point out for BG3 is that there is so much more freedom on how you want to initiate combat with many environmental hazards you can benefit from (shooting the block of stone and let it fall on the 2 bandits or pushing down the statue in the goblin camp to name a few) which does makes the combat easier but the choice is there. The 'push' mechanic which is one of the most funniest or most OP bonus action you could ever use on someone who's near the edge of a loooong fall. The game even allows stupid meta builds like barrlemancy to flourish or some insane level of play that cannot be done in WOTR. There's this one clip of a woman who defeated the Adamantine Forge by standing below the hammer with the golem, drop a health potion below her feet, firebolt the lever killing both the golem and herself but saved by the health potion that was also crushed scattering the liquid and revived herself up. It's not a intended solution but with creative thinking, you can do shit like that which is why BG3 combat wins for me.

[@StingrayJay302]

I love Wrath so much, but the amount of prebuffing that was necessary to play on the higher difficulties got to be a bit of a bore. Especially playing on console (but I guess that’s my fault more than the game’s).

[@sayurioffenborn4960]

But this makes BG3 combat confusing. At least for me.

[@ZacharyBelli]

⁠@@sayurioffenborn4960you’ll get the hang of it…. My first play through I was more pissed than enjoying it because I had absolutely no idea what I was doing, it never tells you, hey casting this will break THAT concentration, or that action will use this slot. I was so confused about what expended what why some things would hit, others always missing. I didn’t touch most the crafting, always rushing here and there, no idea how honestly most the systems even worked…. Then I started slowly grasping things in act 3, it was the first time I felt like I could explore a bit, test the waters, take a breathe and learn instead of just going from one near death to the next….by the time I got to some of the final bosses through sheer trial and error, a little cheating and a lot more powers added to my arsenal I was felling more confident at least, actually the last battle was kind of trivial. Anyways, now starting another playthrough with some added classes and races (astral elf and twilight cleric) and im loving it like everyone else is now. Games with strategy often work like this and id had no idea about dnd before.

[@tomasistok7229]

combat in wotr is much more deeper, more complex and more mature...i dont want "funny" things like throwing barrels or goblins in serious game...sure younger people find it "funny"...in wotr trickster mythic path is superrior to bg 3 interaction

[@joxbarros5054]

@@tomasistok7229 its an option. BG3 has better combat.

[@mrhistorybuff]

Reluctantly agreed. Thanks for the deatailed analysis (not to mention your playthroughs!) I feel certain my view will more strongly align with you over time. I was new to CRPGs and began playing Wrath to learn this game style in prep of BG3. I have played thousands of hours of TT DnD and was all in for BG3. I had only played 20-30 hours in Wrath before BG3 released, but will be returning to it soon.

[@MrKarlfebel]

Bro! Many many months ago I mentioned your channel would grow. It's really great to see you picking up momentum big time!! Keep up the hard work

[@joshuahodgson3655]

Recently downloaded Pathfinder wotr and found myself in character creation for 2hrs...I am now enjoying your lich playthrough. Newly subscribed and excited to explore the channel.

[@jizamkizam9611]

Both are def great games. I personally like how much more class types and abilities Wotr has, but can easily understand people being overwhelmed. At the same time I also appreciate BG3 not having a million different buff and debuff types lol.

[@Multivac22]

Excelent video man, totally agree. All in all, I'd say WOTR is a game you can play years literally, whereas BG3 is a game you play a lot maybe ONE year of your life. WOTR wins the prize in my opinion. And I dream when there comes a day you have another game with over 200 classes to choose from, and the almost endless learning, skull cracking, mind bending options to build not only your character, but also your companions, having fun doing the most crazy stuff ever, suffering because you F'd up in your build, and thinking on how to fix it and become strong again... It's a monstrous amount of content that honestly, makes me use my brain, and feel the absolutely awesome feeling of being a master of myself, and also the freedom of doing almost anything. Besides that; music, (remember my name, Wenduag), over all story, and mythic paths progression is fantastic. Side note: The other day I was watching a youtuber play on unfair, streaming, like a full playthrough, and he made a really "bad" build, not only in his Main Character but also companions. And he was complaining and suffering a lot, swearing and reloading all the time, and I was laughing a lot the whole time... A couple of level ups later, he somewhat fixed his builds a little, and was having a much better time in the game, and prasing himself or the characters, and again I was laughing all the time, and I thought.. "somehow, this what Wrath of the Righteous is all about, and it's great!"

[@jefferystafford9657]

Idk if that's true, I've gotten pretty bored with wotr.

[@Trevaricus]

It's Pathfinder for me all the way. No matter how hard I try I cannot seem to connect with Larian games. With respect to BG3, my issues are: - Interface: inventory management still felt like a huge chore, and I wish I could just drag a box to select characters like typical isometric games instead of grappling with the chain system. Setting up characters' positions to be optimal for a fight often wasn't worth the hassle. - Combat: I get I'm in the vast minority here, but the turn-based only combat is so slow and tedious that I would actively try to avoid combat as much as possible, especially when a lot of the encounters seem designed to start you at a disadvantage. I get that's part of the strategic appeal for some but for the love of god, give me RTwP with auto pause options to speed things up a bit. - Companions/characters - Completely agree with all your points on character writing. Also, how some of my BG2 favorites were treated - unconscionable, and completely undid any character development/endings from Throne of Bhaal. Very few decent evil companions. Areelu is more interesting than the BG3 villains IMO. BG3 is a good game and I did manage to finish it once, but at this point I've accepted that Larian games just might not be for me.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yeah I was not a fan of what was done with BG2 OG's.

[@gordonmcinnes8328]

@@SlanderedGaming agree. Minsc especially, the original voice actor was shafted to tap the Critical Roll market.

[@catoblepasomega]

@@gordonmcinnes8328 Yeah, there was a post on the Forgotten Realms subreddit where some people got his autograph and IIRC he was asked about if he was coming to voice act Minsc in BG 3 (it was during EA) and apparently he defined his communications with them as something like 'I wish they would acknowledge I exist' That maes me doubly uncomfortable knowing that he worked alongside the current VA for Minsc in Siege of Dragonspear...kinda like he poached his job. The writing for the two returning old characters though was really something else...I couldn't keep playing the game after that. If you had shown it to me outside the context of BG 3 I would have assumed it was a hate fic.

[@fightingfortruth9806]

I agree on all of your points and I can add many more. I felt the same about DOS 1&2 as well. I don't like these games.

[@axeldrane]

What a timing!! Just when i was looking for vids on that same topic!!! Good work as usual man! Also really well done with how well structured the video is comparing different specific categories instead of a broad , general opinion.

[@GC_Rallo]

Great video, got my like and sub! I feel bad saying it but I wasn't even able to get through BG3. I played until I killed Ketheric Thorm / Apostle of Myrkul. Overall I just feel like Larian remade D:OS2 with a Forgotten Realms coat of paint and called it a day. That's an oversimplification technically, but that's the impression that stuck with me as I played. I guess I had hoped they would've looked to BG 1 and 2 more than they did, I've played both of them to death so it was strange to me that I found myself less and less eager to play before I even finished the game once. But the same thing happened to me when playing Original Sin 2. I could definitely see why people loved D:OS2 and BG3, but it just didn't click with me for some reason. I loved Pathfinder Kingmaker and I've heard that Wrath of the Righteous is just a straight up improvement over PF:K. I think that'll be the next game I play once I'm done with Elden Ring.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Awesome welcome to the channel!

[@rebornitsybitsy7515]

Great video, wotr on unfair difficulty is amazing although I would say sometimes very brutal on those dice rolls.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup it's not my cup of tea but glad it's there for players.

[@Mike-r4h]

Unfair is very literally unfair. I prefer core because the base numerical values for things like armor class and saving throws of enemies are almost identical to the tabletop system.

[@Eskeletor_210]

I can’t get even get past the beginning without getting wiped by the bugs as a monk

[@JBrandonMercer123]

@@Mike-r4h Yep. When my tank characters are getting one shot, I don't know wtf I'm supposed to do. Two shot would be way different.

[@notalefty999]

Personally, I think the unfair difficulty amps up difficulty in a way which is not very fun. I dont get me started on chained darkness on unfair. As some who refused to save scum a CC spell landing, that just felt completely unreasonable due to RNG not just on dice, but with regards to how random his target selection and spell usage is.

[@shyviking]

Thanks for a good, objective (as objective as these gets...) comparison. I have played both games, and agree with most of it.

[@GodwynDi]

Completed 2 honor mode runs. Played a lot of BG3. But at the emd of the day its WotR I want to play again.

[@sindeon]

Excellent video as always. We're just so lucky to get both of these games right now. Gives us a ton of hours of great content to enjoy and have. Agree with your points a great look at both titles.

[@TheEcletickGamer7]

The most in-depth review that I ever seen. Thanks for what you said about the deepest romances on PWoTR, I will try it out as soon as I finishing Rogue Trader. Thank you!

[@SlanderedGaming]

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!

[@joelwgraves]

Great video! I agree on almost all points. Well done sir!

[@dusannikolic8735]

Well done! Been waiting for this kind of video from you. You did fantastic job comparing these two games. I greatly enjoy both games, but Wrath is overall better experience for me as well.

[@zoozi214]

Very well thought out and presented video. Thanks. Pretty much with you on all points.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Thank you glad you enjoyed it!

[@FurryCruz]

Exactly the comparison I wanted to see🎉❤

[@niktheseamonkey]

I agree with with your takes! Overall, it’s a great time to be an RPG fan!

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup some really awesome games coming out!

[@VocalSynthUtau]

wotr is simply goated. they really captured the feel of playing a tabletop heroic adventure, while still givign crazy customization and RP options. i really hope owlcat makes another pathfinder game. but rogue trader is great too

[@MuppetLord1]

Forgot to mention about BG3 leveling that you cant see future level abilities which is a huge drawback. :)

[@CoffeeForAll]

I liked WOTR more simply because the more I learned about the setting, the more I understood and even agreed with the antagonist. There is still the occasional debate on Steam regarding Areelu and whether she was right or wrong. That grey area is why I play video games that focus on stories in the first place.

[@gordonmcinnes8328]

PF1 character mechanics are way superior to D&D5 in terms of designing the concept you want. D&D5 was designed to be simpler, and have less maths, so once you master PF1 you can build a far greater range of options. Multiplied over a party this means there are vastly more options around party design too. Give me PF1 anyday.

[@SlanderedGaming]

It will be interesting to see how PF2.0 games compare to D&D 5e options.

[@gordonmcinnes8328]

@@SlanderedGaming indeed PF2 is sort of half-way between.

[@damianmorris6700]

I can somewhat agree here. My problem with WOTR is you are pretty much forced to specialize. Yes, you can get much more specific build ideas in mind, but you can do so much more with what you have in BG3. I like creative approaches to combat and never felt I got enough of that in WOTR or Kingmaker. Like, every character I had felt pigeon holed into a hyper-specific playstyle by the end of the game. Plus, I feel I have to plan out every feat in Pathfinder to even make what I want somewhat functional. BG3 allowed me to find creative approaches to combat, even if I didn't have a party comp prepared for certain encounters. It made swapping companions around much easier and made combat much more fun in my opinion, which also enhanced my experience with story and companion interactions. I love both games and go back and forth between which one I enjoy more, but I would give combat to BG3 personally as I'd rather be able to do more with what I have than have more build options but less I can do with each, if that makes sense.

[@gordonmcinnes8328]

@@damianmorris6700 hear what you say but that's a platform thing I suspect not a system thing. Played various versions of D&D for 40 odd years so for me its about the potential of you to realise your concept.

[@eriiicj.1558]

I play these games for different reasons tbh. Builds and fighting are amazing in WOTR, but the constant combat without many options to avoid it can get tiring. It’s almost like an endless gauntlet. BG3’s smaller scope (likely due to the incredible production value having limits) can be a little samey after multiple runs. Act 1 can be a slog after the tenth (or twentieth) time running through it as there are only so many things you can do differently. WOTR isn’t that different in this regard, but the sheer number of builds can offset it some.

[@SlanderedGaming]

I definitely agree there is way too much fighting in WotR.

[@adanos4]

I wished they would add something like neverwinter nights base campaign had, an option to start playing a specific act/chapter. Finished the game already great, then you can replay any chapter/act you want with the same or different character if you prefer.

[@conradkorbol]

@@SlanderedGamingowl cat games all have too much imo

[@user-pi4qo3zc2e]

I wish I could experience the WOTR writing with BG3 combat-to-plot ratio. The dungeons are designed as old school dungeon crawls, which require turn-based combat and serious resource management. But the dungeons are massive and turn based combat slow, turning a single location into an entire workday of slow grind. Add on top of it the repetitive minigame grind on the world map, which for some idiotic reason is mandatory for the special ending, and repetitive and slow world map travel with random encounters. WOTR is the only RPG where I have ever turned the difficulty to easy in middle of the campaign because it was just too much of a slog to go through.

[@adanos4]

@@user-pi4qo3zc2e i am fine playing this on normale with real time with pause. I take it that didn't enjoy hereos of might and magic?

[@dablackgh0st]

I have tried so many times to get into WOTR but I simply cannot. I am going to take BG3 over this BUT I have watched a lot of your content as well as listening to the community that you guys are apart of and for that reason I will give WOTR another go lol. Hopefully I can appreciate it as much as you guys do

[@opethmike]

Push through the first 4 to 5 hours; it's worth it. I dropped it a few times after just 2 or 3 hours; but once you get out of the underground it really picks up.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Hope you like it the second time around!

[@YuneChaos]

I would switch to turn based if you're having trouble with real time, it really uped my enjoyment but its up to preference and you can freely switch between game modes, I tend to switch to reel time when fighting a way to big fight.

[@conradkorbol]

I will say play it on normal mode. I tried to not play it on normal mode and hated. I have enjoyed normal mode a lot tho

[@regiluthfi]

I agree dude, i don't know how it has 9/10 on steam. It's ok game, but not that great. and that army management is annoying and then you have act 4 the most annoying part.

[@Eggsecuter]

Bro is speaking the truth. For real tho, what you mentioned with the bg3 endings threw me off completely when I beat the game for the first time. I beat it before the patch 4 epilogue was added, but by then I remember I felt extremely discouraged to do another play through. After I got the closure with the epilogue, I was still disappointed at how I felt afterwards. BG3 starts off strong but in my honest opinion, failed to stick the landing, or at least the landing was rough. You said it very well, the game gets less interesting the more you play it. In fact, I’ve tried to do a dark urge playthru, since my first character was custom origin, but I couldn’t find myself to get passed act 1. As opposed to WOTR, I’m on my 5th playthru this time trying all the DLCs for the first time as the first 4 were when the game came out (tho I quit the fourth one around act 3-4 I think?) only recently have I gotten back into it and am enjoying the DLCs too. There’s so many builds and mythic paths I wna try, the replayability is insane although there is a lot of slog (which I think can be curated w settings and mods) I’m more inclined to start and finish a dark urge playthru recently so I may get on that, but like you said, the game has at best 3 playthrus before getting stale. Here is one angle I’ve had that I don’t see mentioned often. I think the production value of BG3 is a double edged sword. It created some of the most memorable companions, well voice acted and cool writing (tho some got more attention than others). But I think the fact that they were so memorable and believable made me reluctant to play a new character, if that makes sense? It’s like saying goodbye to friends over the course of the story, and starting a new character almost breaks that bond. It would be like having a group of friends playing dnd, finishing a great campaign, and then playing again but only you changed your character. It’s a shame there will be no story DLC, I think bg3 would’ve benefitted greatly from a mid game and maybe epilogue DLC. Love both games tho but WOTR #1 with BG3 a close #2

[@ianemory5800]

Even as someone who likes Pathfinder more than D&D. BG3 is a better game. While Wotr has some good charcters with Camillia and Ember being stand outs the entire cast of BG3 though is great. I think the biggest thing is just how tedious and cumbersome some of WoTr's mechanics are. Too many blah fights the crusade management is fun but only for a little bit. While its nice you can turn it off that locks you out of some endings. I never feel like in slogging through to get to something fun and interesting in BG3 where it can feel like that in WOTR.

[@SlanderedGaming]

That's a good call out. A lot of players cannot stand crusade management.

[@josephercanbrack8393]

Crusade management was definitely mishandled. and I *love* grand strategy games. I had the opposite experience in my (evil) playthrough of BG3. I found that while well-voice acted, many companions felt very similar to each other, even down to the same wit and banter, and I slowly became indifferent to most companions save romanced Minthara and Astarion Late Act 2/3. WOTR on the other hand, felt like each companion was distinct, with only a few that were too similar to each other. Even the ones I despised like Ember felt more memorable than a lot of BG3's companions.

[@GHOST5800000]

@@josephercanbrack8393 damn bruh why you despise Ember? ;(

[@josephercanbrack8393]

@@GHOST5800000 She’s a writer’s pet. Her whole stick is “Demons are just sad and angry.” She’s literally the 5 year old asking “Why can’t the two warring sides just be nice”, and instead of having her grow from that, she’s treated as completely in the right. Aru suffered and toiled to earn redemption. Ember says some vaguely nice things and swaths of demons turn.

[@GHOST5800000]

@@josephercanbrack8393 Damn well Ive only jus started playing cause its free on PS plus, so I cant judge everything like you can IG, but from what Ive experienced from Ember so far I kinda get it, like shes almost TOO good lol, I get it, so far I jus think shes kinda cute cause she kinda dumb as hell but shes so dumbly innocent I jus wanna protect her lmfao Also by Aru you mean that succubus lady? I Think she gonna be my fav companion and prolly who I romance from what I know of the companions so far...

[@Writh811]

The only caveat I would give is to your final suggestion. If the player is new the genre and can only get one I would switch the recommendation purely on the merit of that one that didn't get recc'd in that situation is more permeable for new folks. For the Vets, you nailed it!

[@orarinnsnorrason4614]

Really nice video. I'm leaning to Wotr also. But I will say that playing evil in wotr does have its restrictions but it stems mostly from dialogue options or the lack of reactivity from both the world and companions, rather than the restrictions in BG3.

[@leoboy2685]

I can’t seem to get into WOTR, it is better than BG3 in most things, build variation, setting etc. but the combat alone throws me off, I don’t enjoy how 90% of fights are decided based on a build (I’m not saying it’s bad it is just not what I personally seek in a game). Despite bg3 losing out in most things, the combat alone makes me enjoy it more. It’s sad because the pathfinder games look so good to me, I tried both and all the issues I see people complaining about, especially with kingmaker, didn’t put me off the game, it was the combat alone. I think it honestly just comes down to a difference of taste, maybe my brain will change one day and my priorities in game will lead me to trying WOTR again.

[@keithbos4506]

I feel like after having played both that even though WotR has so many classes and archetypes, BG3 builds feel much more unique as you hit the late game, while WotR builds start feeling very similar.

[@blackfistxu7953]

Yes!!!! I always wondered what your thoughts were on this topic!

[@evwaldron]

WotR might possibly be a better game... but I simply can't get deep enough into the game to discover those qualities. BG3 is possibly the greatest RPG I've ever played. The ease of entry and intuitive nature of the games systems just make it far better. BG3 manages to IMPROVE on the D&D 5e system and makes it so much more playable. WotR is pretty much just as convoluted as the pen and paper game. I feel like the only way to really enjoy WotR is to spend a few months learning all the ins and outs of the Pathfinder engine before getting started... and that just doesn't feel fun to me.

[@نونيم-ي4ح]

The biggest problem i have with WOTR and even its predecessor is that owl cat throws A LOT of shit on the wall expecting something to stick, there is just so much shit and terrible gameplay mechanics that just dont work together, it has high highs but it also has devastating low lows, owl cat really needs to polish their games imo in order to fully realize their potential. BG3 feels like the culmination of everything that larian studios has learned from storytelling to gameplay and its glued together with its fantastic immersive-sim esque environmental interactivity that adds so much depth and freedom to the gameplay that is not existent in any Crpg outside of larian studios games.

[@bardlywritten4959]

I'd say I agree with almost every take on the categories, and the final verdict still goes to WOTR. BG3's production value is absurdly high, and its music almost made my eyes water at a couple points of the game. For me, it definitely takes the cake in terms of visuals and music. I agree that WOTR blows BG3 out of the water when it comes to story and replayability, I'd go as far to say it's probably one of the best stories of CRPG history. Progression as well; the BG3 illithid powers feel great, but they don't scratch the Mythic paths. While progression and character creation are much more in WOTR's favor, I actually think Baldur's Gate 3 has higher quality combat for the sheer creativity you can employ in fights and the joy that comes with tackling a multiplayer playthrough. There have only been a handful of thrilling fights for me in the WOTR campaign, such as the final bosses of each act, and while BG3 combat is not as difficult it feels much more nuanced with the numerous little gadgets and consumables and exploitable terrain the game puts in your hands, whereas WOTR fights are a slugfest on a flat board to me and the appeal lies more in story than combat. I believe that Baldur's Gate 3 has higher highs and lower lows where qualities are concerned, and one of the places this shows is the companions; while the Act 2 and Act 3 companions aren't entirely noteworthy, each and every one of the companions in BG3 are characters you can genuinely grow with. I have to say Lae'zel's romance is one of the sweetest I've ever experienced in gaming(hence, higher highs), but Minthara is a clear afterthought and I've only ever recruited her once(hence, lower lows).While WOTR has very amicable companions across the board, I think that BG3 should have the companions win because Lae'zel, Shadowheart, and Astarion are such utterly unforgettable show-stoppers that it's unreasonable to dismiss them. While Daeran and Wenduagg are greatly detailed companions, they never had the same impact for me in interactions with them. While you can result in soulmates at the end of WOTR, I think that it's more important to *see* the progressing relationship, and BG3's incredible production team and voice actors lend to immersing you in the romantic experience, ie. the experience of companionship. TL;DR I think Baldur's Gate 3 actually wins out on combat and edges out the victory on companions, but WOTR still wins overall for just having a vastly superior story and progression that keeps you engaged throughout the campaign. Larian had a phenomenal Act 1 that made me dunk 500+ hours into Early Access, but screwed the pooch when it came to Act 3, resulting in a very sour taste at the end of my first playthrough. WOTR has an Act 1 that I consider a chore, but by the end of 140+ hours I end the game feeling the triumph of winning an interplanar war and becoming a demigod if not more.

[@GamingForImmersion]

Amazing video. One of the best comparison videos I've seen. Got to me to try WOTR and, of course, subscribe to your channel.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Thank you! Welcome to the channel!

[@ovatae3349]

Recently, I have been playing Wrath of the Righteous. I'm on my 3rd run now. I have played BG3 and can't deny it's extreme quality. If WotR didn't exist, I'd say BG3 was the best RPG ever made. That being said, the exact points you stated about story progression, power progression, and character progression are the reasons why it falls short of WotR.

[@ravipeiris4388]

Both games are winners as we as players get choices and that's a great thing ❤.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Agreed!

[@PitoDiPaiaGames]

I have no choice but to agree with everything you said in this video. Very good, dude. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@SlanderedGaming]

Thank you!

[@homeostasis1103]

I agree with everything except combat section (i especially agree with bg3 having bad evil playthroughs). I would say bg3 is better in terms of actual combat due to fights being handmade and that battlefields and stuff that's on the ground actually matters. Even tho difficulty is non existent compared to wotr i believe that actions you can do in combat in bg3 compared to wotr are superior and is more important than difficulty. Especially considering most of the gameplay in wotr you'll spend prebuffing instead of actually fighting enemies Edit: I would also mention that even tho bg3 character creation is better overall, but wotr provides sheet with useful information on what to expect on which lvl meanwhile in bg3 there's no indication and you have to go wiki to know on which lvl you gain what

[@alsaiduq4363]

Prediction of the final score: Presentation,character creation companions and combat goes for BG3. Maybe music but both games have really good osts. Wrath gets progression, build mechanic, endings, mods (because the game is older), endings , replaybility (easy, mythic path) and story..

[@12345Granada]

no chance of companions, Regil beats every BG3 companion alone.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Hmmm looks like there are some surprises in the video for you. :)

[@zoozi214]

@@12345Granada Regil is such an awesome companion. Imagine if he was fully voiced and animated like the BG3 companions

[@hectorsanchez7581]

@@zoozi214imagine if he was in bg3

[@giorgilobjanidze5667]

@@hectorsanchez7581 Larian couldnt write a character like Regil hes too serious and larian whimsey would just make him stupid

[@asydis7764]

Both games are awesome, but my preference goes to BG3. Obviously, the biggest advantage of WOTR is its rpg progression system with higher level cap, more classes, prestige classes, the freedom of pathfinder system with all the feats you can get, and the mythic ranks. It's a whole other level. For the characters, pretty close call but I prefer BG3. But maybe this ties in to the production value. It sure helps bring characters to like and make some scenes more impactful and it's hard to do this comparison not being biased I think. But the main reason I prefer BG3 is simply that it doesn't have crusade mode to hold it back. BG3 is an awesome experience through and through. Whereas WOTR has its ups and downs. It is awesome when I get to enjoy the CRPG experience I'm here for. But I also have to deal with half baked crusade managment and map scouting which get tedious.

[@effigy4541]

Thanks for the analysis. I enjoy BG3 and classic CRPGs like the Fallout games, but I had avoided buying WotR because a lot of the Steam reviews mentioned that the character builds and game mechanics were excessively complex. You've convinced me to give it a try.

[@SlanderedGaming]

It's definitely worth trying out. There are a bunch of different builds to help you with mechanics. Hope you enjoy the game!

[@mysticaloctopus8224]

I started playing bg3 before WotR, but I finished my first WotR playthrough of ah before my first BG3 playthrough - though I had to take significant breaks from both games. Restarting both games multiple times made me very familiar with the opening acts of both games, and they both became kind of a slog after a certain point. Mythic paths added a lot to WotR, but the bizarre rate at which you gain new mythic levels was a hindrance to that experience overall - it felt like I was barely changing for a while and then got a huge amount all at once. I do think I enjoy BG3 more mechanically, since the amount of gameplay options you have to approach each scenario is way higher - stealth and pickpocketing and even using jumps and areas of darkness to get into better positions before starting combat, plus the variety of terrains and surfaces you can use while in combat - you have way more freedom of approach in a lot of cases than WotR does, since that game is so heavily combat oriented. Honestly, even with all that, I can’t decide on a true favorite - I think it’s pretty much a tie in my eyes, both games have their strengths and weaknesses. WotR doesn’t have Shadowheart and BG3 doesn’t have Arueshalae, so overall i guess it’s a wash.

[@mysticaloctopus8224]

Oh yeah. And before I forget - inventory management. WotR knocks this one way out of the park. Dear god.

[@acrab6527]

@@mysticaloctopus8224 WoTR lets you buy enough bags of holding to hit "take all" from everything, every time with no downside. BG3 makes you hit "send to camp" on every single item in the game one at a time. yeah WoTR wins

[@mysticaloctopus8224]

@@acrab6527 it is possible to ctrl+click to highlight more items and then send them all to camp at once

[@acrab6527]

@@mysticaloctopus8224 1)That still takes longer than just carrying everything you own at all times, and just hitting take all. 2) not on console it ain't.

[@Staff7]

I hope owlcat makes a dnd video game . they seems to know how to implement tabletop to games very well.

[@AdderOfDune]

I agree. I love both, but I have significantly more hours in WotR than in BG3. Currently replaying WotR, and once more with my beloved Bard build... (I seem to always default to a Bard with Hideous Laughter and Best Jokes)...

[@anlak1318]

Yep, I pretty much agree with everything in this video, especially the evil playthroughs part. And the worst part ? Larian said: "you know about that, one of the best parts of evil playthroughs in our game (Minthara) ? Yeah, fuck you, now you can recruit her on a good playthrough (yet we still can't get Karlach on an evil playthrough)". Also, KZbin bugged your video chapters.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Sure did that was weird. Thanks I have fixed the chapters now.

[@Mike-r4h]

I personally don't have a problem with missing out on some quests and companions on an evil playthrough. Having worked in project management for 20 years, I can safely say that trying to make the evil playthrough feel like an entirely different experience, on a game of this scope and attention to detail,would result in either any playthrough being at best 75 percent as good as the ideal playthrough is now, or the game being released in 2026 or something.

[@potoquense558]

Great content! Ty

[@SlanderedGaming]

Thank you!! Glad you enjoyed it!

[@znalbrionez1118]

As someone who (as a freaking noob at the genre lmao) started with DOS2 and WOTR before trying BG3, the jump down in difficulty with managing classes and builds was such a shock 😭😭 I will say though, that while it feels much more rewarding to level up in WOTR, with the sheer amount of choices I can make, the amount of "wrong" choices for builds is also a lot, which does take away from it somewhat. In comparison to BG3 though, where choices are much fewer, sometimes blend in with each other with how few classes there are in comparison, and also still having certain "wrong" choices for a build in feat choices, it feels wayyyy less of a hassle to make mistakes, and the elimination of more "wrong" choices streamlines it a lot better than either WOTR or DOS2. BG3 is such a good game to get into this genre of games though, while WOTR probably feels a lot easier to play if unlike me, you took the time to get more familiar with the genre instead of running in blind and struggling even with guides~

[@judostar11]

To me, it depends on what you're looking for. Wrath of the Righteous (and Pathfinder by extension) cater to a more hardcore fanbase. The game is absolutely awesome in how it handles being a power fantasy, how it handles your choices, how it handles being evil, and how it handles alignment. The story is also really good for the majority of the game and it offers you a ton of replayability. When I played WOTR, I enjoyed most of my time with it. While I found levelling and the crusade mechanic cumbersome, I dealt with it. What almost killed WOTR for me and is preventing me from replaying it again is just how much I HATED Act 4 and how I just wanted the game to end in Act 5 because of what I can only best describe as stat bloat. BG3, on the other hand, caters more towards new cRPG players and people familiar with DnD/BG1+BG2. The game offers a really good story (especially as redemption Dark Urge), interesting companions, easier combat, a more cinematic experience, and a less cumbersome levelling + character creation system. The game also benefits from the fact that it's set in the Forgotten Realms and that it uses a modified 5e ruleset. Both of which are more well known than Golarion and the Pathfinder 1e ruleset. The modified 5e ruleset is also a benefits because it's more accessible as well. If I had to choose one, I would pick BG3 but that's mainly because of preference. DnD is my bread and butter (I've played and ran a lot of it) and I've never been a huge fan of the Pathfinder 1e ruleset (I do like 2e better though). I also just found BG3 more enjoyable because I found it easier to get into and I was able to connect better with the story and companions.

[@SlanderedGaming]

All of that absolutely makes complete sense.

[@adanos4]

pathfinder ruleset is based dnd 3.5 rules. I agree that bg3 is more for casuals. Since dnd 5 edition was made in casual in mind and dnd 3.5 is for hardcore players. Probably why most people do not stick with wotr.

[@osiris4457]

BG3 absolutely does not offer a good story. There are plotholes of the size of the average galaxy, not to mention rather minimal agency of the player. The entire thing feels more like a D&D-themed rollercoaster, rather than an actual CRPG story. BG3 is a good game, but I wouldn't call it Baldur's Gate.

[@adanos4]

@@osiris4457 still it is one of popular games on the market despite not hitting many boxes in the right areas.

[@osiris4457]

​@@adanos4 Rollercoasters are generally popular, yes. Popularity has rarely been a factor regarding story quality.

[@ChangoSun]

My good brother you need to seriously consider voice acting. You have an amazing voice. I need to hear it in an anime or something.

[@jarrenraves]

I replayed wrath again when the last dlc dropped and I came away with a very strong sense that-while I do genuinely love BG3-wrath is the game for me. Mostly for reasons you already outlined; I really value the story and replayability the vastly different builds and paths give. I finish one playthrough, and already have ideas for the next one I want to try and probably spend an entire day just working out the ins and outs of the build and party composition! Counter to that, BG3's act 3 and its ending left me with a very sour taste on release, which ultimately stopped me from replaying it even just once. The character building also left me rather cold after having previously experienced pathfinder's. I reckon with updates and mods though, I definitely will return to BG again as well. The only thing I disagree with is combat. For me, the creativity of BG's system takes this category quite easily. Even if I prefer wrath overall, I probably enjoyed and remember individual combat encounters alot more in BG3. Something I wanted to add to as well was on companions. I think judging them as 'characters in a story', BG and wrath are very close. But as 'companions in a game', I strongly prefer wrath's. They are much more ideologicaly diverse and often remain true to themselves to the point of going against you if your ideals clash. I dont think I've ever finished an playthrough on wrath or kingmaker where I didnt end up having to kill atleast 1, if not more, of my companions and that's something Ive always greatly appreciated. It made for both powerful moments within the game and made me respect them as characters. BG3 in comparison, all of them are much more in line with eachother and ultimately just feel a bit 'wet bread' when it comes to ideology. To close this comment I do want to reiterate I really enjoyed BG3, even if my comment comes across as very critical!!

[@jorixpalorn3738]

BG3 is a beautiful well polished marble. Its smooth, easy to handle and extremely pretty. However it starts to loose its luster the more you look at it. WotR is a rough cut gem. Not as eye catchingly shiny, and its sharper edges make it uncomfortable to handle but the more you look at it, the easier it is to loose yourself in its faceted depths.

[@weiyu114]

I don’t know how, but your voice sound very old and wise. Damn great content btw.

[@isthianlyon1706]

Great analysis! WOTR replay ability is interesting as I find acts 1&2 to be extremely similar no matter your path, and then from there you get to see the results. While cool, I often balk at agreeing it's super replay able because you're asking for 20 - 40 hours of investment each playthrough to get to the 'good stuff'. Very curious to see where Owlcat goes from here, as someone already sore from their launches thus far I plan to wait things out whatever they bring us and see how it holds up in public. Totally agreed with the pros and cons of going all voice - I wouldn't have minded more of a by character approach as another half step but if they can make it happen I certainly prefer voice acted games these days.

[@badjohnnyisbad]

just started WotR a few days ago. I plan on buying BG3 soon and playing that next

[@oxmor]

Easiest subscription, I think that this is some great content. I wish you spoke a bit about the price points and modding. I own WoTR, but never play because I don't have the money to buy all the expansions and have fomo.

[@19Crusader91]

"Many of the songs feel like a military marching band" My brother in christ.. you do know... you are leading.. a CRUSADE right?

[@the_tired_one977]

Yes and he immediately adds "in the game it absolutely works" so let me ask you this: My brother in christ.. did you even.. listen to.. what is being SAID IN THE VIDEO?

[@louhodo5761]

I feel both games have pros and cons but Pathfinder is better to me. The thing that sets it apart is the depth of character progression also the story depth is insane compared to BG3. While BG3 is like playong through a movie. For me reading is not an issue, especially once we get a voice for those characters. Lastly what gave Pathfinder Wotr the edge to BG3, is the fact of the hot mess that is the rushed third act. Larian dropped the ball hard on the third act. Some other notable things that WotR does that just makes sense, is you as the main character dont have to do EVERY skill. In a conversation needs to pass a persuasion check but youre a fighter with 8 CHA well you have a Paladin with high charisma and the roll is made on their skill. Also you can take your level WAY past 12. Oh and did i meantion you can get a DRAGON!!!!! Yes you can get a dragon in WotR.

[@regiluthfi]

How do you get the dragon? You mean it's one of those mythic path?

[@louhodo5761]

@@regiluthfi She is a companion you get as a certain mythic path.

[@mattjharrisyahoo]

Or you can be a dragon.

[@louhodo5761]

@@mattjharrisyahoo there is that also.

[@Mike-r4h]

You can be a dragon by casting a spell, and a powerful one at that. Being a dragon in WotR is not as outlandish as it would seem😂

[@kvd9600]

Now this is where it gets tricky. The main reason Owl Cat could pull off those epic storytelling and absurd complexity is that most of the details were presented as "texts", combats are basically number crunch as many people will say. The further up you go with "presentation" the more you'll have to cut off many details due to budget limitations. And Again that's where the divide goes even deeper perhaps. Presentation/Graphics vs Details/Complexity. In technical and economical POV, it is easier to create a game like PF:WROTR than BG3.

[@thomasrosendahl2783]

BG3 had a budget of over 100 million dollars compared to Pathfinder WOTR 2 million. If WOTR merely had a 15-20 million dollar budget, it would have surpassed BG3. That puts the comparison in perspective, and the perfect TTRPG would have the 3.5/Pathfinder 1e system with BG3s high production value.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Seems like Owlcat's game will be much closer to BG3 level production values and it will be interesting to see if it still succeeds.

[@thomasrosendahl2783]

@@SlanderedGaming Until Owlcat comes out with a new masterpiece rpg, I will use mods with BG3 on my Xbox. That is the only choice we have, until another triple A production RPG/TTRPG comes out.

[@kvd9600]

Now this is where it gets tricky. The main reason Owl Cat could pull off those epic storytelling and absurd complexity is that most of the details were presented as "texts", combats are basically number crunch as many people will say. The further up you go with "presentation" the more you'll have to cut off many details due to budget limitations. And Again that's where the divide goes even deeper perhaps. Presentation/Graphics vs Details/Complexity. In technical and economical POV, it is easier to create a game like PF:WROTR than BG3.

[@Vi0ar]

I think the main thing that makes wrath better for me than bg3 is the build aspects. In bg3 you have to activity hold yourself back when building. If you come up with anything too strong the game is basically over. In wrath you have to have an INSANE build just to stand a chance on anything past core. Also while there are a lot less mods, toybox is worth at least a thousand bg3 mods rolled into one.

[@follypersist]

Great video! Pathfinder 1e is sooo difficult to play with and feel any kind of confident; 5e isn't that much better but it is at least minutely more approachable. Neither game lets me make much progress at all without constantly killing people, but WOTR so far is at least making it feel like I can have more nuance to the good/evilness of my choices.

[@Ariesmonk76]

I'm glad you took the time to focus on many of the strong points in both titles. I personally feel owlcat kinda dropped the ball when it comes to character creation and certainly doesnt focus on strong unique spell casting abilities.

[@TheBlueDeath123]

BG3 is like a fantastic, perfect dinner. WOTR is like a dozen great feasts. So many choices.

[@fightingfortruth9806]

I hate the art direction of BG3. Too cartoons and the characters look "post-modern" if that make sense. The cast looks like they came off a university campus instead of a fantasy world. Pathfinder wins easily in this regard.

[@fightingfortruth9806]

[cartoony]

[@rj595]

I really enjoyed both, but WotR was better imo. Exploration in wrath was just enough for me and i really enjoyed the gameboard travel bit. At times in different zones while playing bg3 i just wanted to be done with an area, or didnt want to miss something and felt i had to turnover every rock. Combat is pretty different between the two but ive always enjoyed the kind of rpgs that have a lot of buff management.

[@BrunoCAquino]

Stil have not played BG3, but everytime that Mithyc Power plays in Pathfinder it gives me chills

[@mertgulgun6830]

I think BG3 is a great book, like those choose your adventure type of books, every time you pick it up you discover something new... For instance after every counter in BG3 I was like "I did so poorly and unimaginative, I could have fought more creatively" on the other hand WotR is like chess, you need to move your pieces carefully, plan ahead to min-max, squeeze every bit of advantage you can get to have the edge against the monsters... So I think both deliver different delicacies and I cannot have one and not have the other :D

[@Colston3]

Give me the Mythic Power theme as best song.

[@lordofbeasts4561]

Great video, love to get your full thoughts on each game. I would only like to add that because WOTR has fewer voice lines when you get them, they feel more special. However, I do wish we got more voice acting for it but might have gotten poor written character so am rather torn.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Owlcat just revealed that all their future games will be fully voice acted. I have a video coming out on that tomorrow. :)

[@figuures6098]

On the music angle; while I love all the tracks for bg3, wrath’s azata melody is the only track from either game that I will hum to myself without reason

[@GodOfPlague]

Excellent comparison my good sir. I think BG3 was easier for me to pick up. 5E is pretty easy to learn after a few build guides. Pathfinder oh boy I still don't quite get it. However the story of wrath of the righteous has gripped me far more than BG3 storyline. I think I like Wraths Characters somewhat better as well.

[@Suikeina]

I'm of the opinion that these games aren't really worth comparing. They're simply too different. BG3 is as close to a true D&D tabletop adventure as you can get in a video game (currently), WotR is very much a on the rails campaign with little room for shenanigans. They're both entirely different beasts. I personally like WotR more, but there are things in BG3 that I very much do prefer. Combat being one of them. WotR combat mechanics are complicated and can become stale very quickly. Buffs are almost a requirement at Core or higher difficulty, and buffs make you roll through most of the game. BG3's combat in comparison feels more balanced. It's simple and has depth. I prefer the music in WotR. It's got more variety. One thing that wasn't mentioned was certain crescendo moments. The score in Wrath is masterfully integrated with the gameplay, cutscenes, and story. For example: Banner over the Citadel playing during the climax of Act 2 is chill inducing. It's the most hype part of the entire game for me personally. Another example is when Master of My Own Fate first plays. This is another chilling moment that highlights the use of the music in the game in my opinion. Besides these two particular things, I pretty much agree with the video. Thanks for more great content Slandered!

[@Gregorovitch144]

I'd say that's a pretty fair review of the two games based on a great deal of knowledge and experience. Personally I'd say it'd a dead heat between them but that's probably 'cos I rarely play through a big cRPG more than twice these days and secondly I'm not really interested in romance in games so some of the edges Wrath has over BG3 Slandered is talking about here don't really apply to me. But that's just me, objectively I think Slandered is right to call it as he does. One thing I am sure of though, since I've played pretty much every important cRPG since about 1992, is that BG3 and Wrath are the two best cRPGs ever made by a country mile. They are both worth anybody's time and money three times over.

[@MisanThrope-cu1mw7fj3p]

Pathfinder, for all its diverse class/race roster and the "freedom" to build your character really locks you into very few minmax options (provided you don't play on lower difficulty levels). It's a hardcore game and you don't want an "RP" character in a hardcore game. You don't build a mage with low dexterity, because a lot of offensive spells requier a touch roll. You don't pick a class with a cool description if it's subpar, mechanics-wise (which over half of them are, compared to the top dogs). You want to build an optimal Sword saint? Your only option is Strength, and a very specific weapon selection, like the Scythe, Falcata, etc. Want to build a tank with sky-high AC? Well, take a dip into a bunch of non thematically-correlated classes and create a hideous Frankenstein's monster. Want to build a blaster mage? You're pretty much locked into 1-2 solutions. Not to mention that the vast majority of "difficulty" is defeated by tedious buff-stacking. BG3, does have its meta, sure (Tavern brawler+elixir of strength, be damned - although it's nerfed in Honor mode), but I find it to be way more flexible in terms of viable multiclasses and ways that mechanics scale. I built crazy invincible monsters in Baldur's Gate 1, 2, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2, I built freaks of nature that made "Unfair" difficulty hardly fair for my enemies in Pathfinder. But really, I find that Baldur's Gate 3 hit the sweet spot between accessibility (casual-friendliness), good ergonimics and complexity. Almost every subclass is useful. No race falls too far behind in racial perks. Multiclassing is much more flexible, especially for casters. I wouln't mind having more classes, a higher level cap, more feats in BG3, but I think it's in a really nice place.

[@tehanua4383]

Something you didnt really bring up enough is that BG3 is multiplayer, and good multiplayer.

[@MagnustheRad]

having played both i agreed on most parts, tho I feel you missed something when talking about the combat, bg3 only has turned based but it's a focused system with interaction mechanisms that I feel pushes it far beyond Wrath, the creative things you can do in bg3 is insane. Owlbear from the top rope!

[@alchemist9905]

I’m around level 5 in wotr and so far every combat encounter feels the same. So far bg3 is the clear winner for me but we shall see.

[@ThePsychicExtremist]

Pathfinder WotR is better in most ways imo. As much as I love BG3, it had a lot of minor issues that annoyed me over time, from gameplay issues to minor bits of the narrative not making too much sense depending on the choices you made. I feel like a lot of the hype for it comes from the production with full voice acting, and it being a lot of people first proper CRPG so they were impressed by the amount of player choice which is standard for many games in the genre. Games like pathfinder, pillars of eternity, and dragon age have been doing similar things for years.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup the increased PV definitely helped the game.

[@brianlav1]

I hate how BG3 makes looting such a choir.

[@regiluthfi]

I disagree, that demon city part almost made me quit.

[@Mike-r4h]

WotR still uses that old cRPG trope of allowing you to ask newly recruited companions almost everything about their past and history straight away( except the parts that are story locked, of course), like you're performing an interview. Takes away from the immersion . Bg3 does this in a more believable way, and you can totally miss out on information if you're being an asshole 😁

[@mihai000000]

i've said it before , and i'll repeat myself : bg3 is baby's first crpg. Yes , its pretty , and has great production value , but it has no challenge , and actually very little content , once you've played it once , and seen most of the dialogue. From an 100ish hours game , it turns into a 50-60 hours if you skip everrything that you;'ve seen already. Also , the game is waaaay too easy. I beat honor mode in my 2nd playthrough , and i didn't even had a very hard time doing it either

[@ArtyrNc]

omg, yes. I absolutely support your conclsions!

[@Terron29]

Another great upload. I MUCH prefer pathfinder wrath of the righteous to BG3 but still enjoyed bg3 quite a bit. I am much more a gameplay depth, exploration and combat crpg player and in these areas I think Wrath takes the crown. I also much preferred the characters in Wrath. Music is very good in both but again I preferred wrath.

[@davedujour1]

I've played both although I haven't finished WotR yet. It's very long and crunchy so I've only gotten to around Act 2 after starting several time. I think BG3 is an easier game to get into and an overall better story, at least for the same length as BG3 runs (again, haven't finished WotR yet so I don't know how it ends.) The production value of BG3 is SO AMAZING that it makes it much easier to learn. And having played D&D for 40+ years, including Pathfinder 1e and many other tabletop systems, and a lot of CRPGs over those decades, I found WotR overwhelming with all the character creation choices. BG3 was much easier to learn even if it was sometimes not as complex. My last tabletop game was also Pathfinder 1e, after having played some D&D 5e, and yeah, that's a lot of math. Personally I'd pick BG3 over WotR, especially if someone has never played a CRPG before. But I think your analysis is generally spot on. WotR has more replay value because the massive character and the Mythic Path options can make very different strategies. BG3 characters can play differently, but the replay-ability is more on changing the difficulty of the game.

[@mihai000000]

it's definetly not a better story then wotr. As someone that have finished both games multiple times , bg3 can be condensed in like...50 hours or so once you start skipping the dialogue that you've already seen. Its actually incredibly empty in terms of content , and the story is really frikin basic and liniar. Pathfinder has more lore behind it , and has not only lenght , but the story also branches (so it feels wider as well - similar feel to tyranny if you've ever played it. Tyranny , compared to most other games , feels more "wide" then "lenghty". Wotr has a similar feel to that , because of the mythic paths , and the way each one changes the story). You might like the more simplistic aproach to bg3 writting and storytelling , since it has better exposition (fully voiced acted , which great cutscene) , so that's your prefference. But i wouldn't call it a better story overall