Slaves to Darkness INDEX: In-Depth Review AoS 4.0

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@000NULL 3 ай бұрын

This was a great one! Despite many people playing S2D there isn’t a lot of detailed coverage. It was wild to hear that the Nexus increases the opponents ability to reach your backline. What a liability!

@ryanburruss 3 ай бұрын

Thanks man! I ended up re-uploading the video with (I think) slightly turned down volume, so your initial comments didn’t stay with the video, but thanks for your engagement and for watching the stream!

@chopsunst 3 ай бұрын

Grateful to you both for this video, well worth watching.

@ryanburruss 3 ай бұрын

Thanks a ton! Was a pleasure to make, and def good to get some Slaves content out there!

@sneakybeak4032 3 ай бұрын

Appreciate this vid, S2D dosent have many good breakdown vids online until this one :)

@ryanburruss 3 ай бұрын

Thanks SneakyBeak! Yeah, we noticed in our Faction Focus video for Slaves that we had atypically high viewership there, especially considering we’re not a Slaves channel per se, so I think you might be right!

@sneakybeak4032 3 ай бұрын

@@ryanburruss i suspect you will have a high number of views with relatively timely reviews of the new battletomes if your schedule can afford it. :)

@MaximeGolagha 3 ай бұрын

Nice review, well done! However I was waiting for some of your thoughts about the rest of the units. Bit disappointed on that point

@christianjohansson7185 3 ай бұрын

Very detailed rundown this! Again I really like the format with Ryan as an excitable interviewer bringing in expert guests. A good supplement to Jonas's no-nonsense hard strat discussions, and the numbers/vibe analysis you also do. I'll be passing the video on to my StD (woah, never abbreviated that before. I guess that's why y'all said SoD) -playing friend. Way he's been fielding them have been using mostly chosen, chariots and Varangard. It'll be interesting to hear what he'll do with all your ruinous info!

@ryanburruss 3 ай бұрын

Thanks a lot, Christian! Yeah, I took like the mix of presentation styles we’ve got going on here on the channel! And hope your friend gets something good out of the content as well! Curious to hear how those chariots have been doing! (I’ve got 3 myself…)

@strategoi 3 ай бұрын

Interesting how you've described our styles, Christian! We've been mixing our vibes lately, so it's fun to read how you're experiencing it. Thanks for the comment. -Jonas

@Dvrk_3ntries 3 ай бұрын

Great rundown on S2D! Fun thing to note about mark of Tzeentch, it would give you a 4+ ward save against the damage from spite tongue curse as it's mortal damage from a spell ability.

@strategoi 3 ай бұрын

Hah, that's a good catch!

@Jaccep 2 ай бұрын

Some notes, additions, disagreements, thoughts, etc... Ok, mostly just rambling as a long term StD player. Just following along with your video. I consider myself a Johnny in general, but a lot of these comments are going to be from a competitive standpoint. I'm listening while building models, so I'll probably miss some things you already addressed. Sorry for the wall of text in advance! 0. (I came back and added this later) - I don't know anyone who doesn't like bela'kor due to the new way his ability works. It's technically *more* consistent now, since before your opponent could bypass your ability for a n entire phase with just 1 good roll. Now they need to roll for each ability, which covers a lot since EVERYTHING is an ability now. 1. Mindstealer Sphiranx does have a place this edition due to its warscroll ability. Not for killing though, so the eye of the gods restriction still isn't really a hit. 2. At this stage, I have only gotten maybe 7 or 8 games under my belt in 4e with StD. I have used the EOTG re-roll often. I luckily have yet to get a 1 on the re-roll, though I have roll 1's on the initial roll to re-roll. It's coming, but you can practically bet on not getting the mortals. 3. the +1 to hit from EOTG is more impactful when you consider how many way we have to get +1 to wound with our generic hero warscrolls. Though admittedly the ward / Rend is likely better in most cases. 4. The EOTG ward is powerful. StD is already considered a tough faction to chew through. Giving them a ward on top of that makes us a hard stat-check for most armies. In addition, you can stack this twice on regular units. You give them a 6+ ward, and now they already have a 6+ ward, so they can be bumped to a 5+ ward. 5. Extra rend on Varanguard has its use, but it's also not generally needed as their crit mortals is sort of what you're really fishing for and 4+ or 5+ saves are still common. 6. I would agree that even with less triggers than in 3e, EOTGs feels like it triggers enough and is overall more positively impactful. 7. Yes, units with a built in keyword get to use the benefits of the mark of chaos for that keyword. Abraxia and Bela'kor for instance get to use the undivided benefits against heroes. This is also how it worked in 3e and hasn't changed. 8. This certainly feels like the hero hammer edition, so undivided likely will get use during each battle. Maybe not better than -1 to wound or such, but it's still meaningful. (You guys also just addressed my point 7). 9. Khorne and Nurgle are definitely the go-to choices, with Nurgle being more common. I like Khorne on 5-man Knight's or 3-man Varanguard, but if you reinforce any of those units, you go with Nurgle. You're only throwing Khorne on them to begin with because the un-reinforced units don't always have the consistency to take care of the job on the charge without it. Once reinforced you can focus on their survivability with Nurgle. Same which Chosen - Only take in 10-mans, and only take Nurgle. 10. Yeah, Tzeench mark is still underpowered, even in this new edition of manifestations. The few teleport wizards don't require Tzeench keyword anymore either. 11. Slannesh mark is useful in specific cases, but never more useful than the extra charge attack or extra survivability. 12. Battle Formations are bad, and Godswrath Warband is the "correct" choice for nearly every list right now. And even that one rarely seems impactful. 13. Darkoath warscrolls are currently severely over costed for their output, and their warscrolls abilities on the whole are overly specific and/or situational. They added a lot of randomness needed for their buffs to an already underpowered set of warscrolls. I'm not positive that just points changes can fix their list tbh. 14. Thematically I feel Darkoath fit into StD well. They are mortal followers of chaos and the first step to becoming a chaos warrior. I think their addition has the ability to be a meaningful addition to the battletome because StD lacks in lower cost units, however their broken warscrolls kind of take the wind out of that sail. Also keep in mind that there is a Darkoath Army of Renown within the StD index. That said, it's arguably worse than just using Darkoath in a regular StD list as their replacement traits are worse than EOTG. 15. Depending on your list, I could see leaving the terrain out as a viable choice. I do use the 3-point +1 to cast often, particularly in turns 1 / 2. But I don't always take any wizards, and the 9-cost mortal bomb takes a while to build and I'm not sure I've ever even used it. 16. You're right on the inability to use the +1 to case ability per turn. "The Rule of One" prevents that. 17. I think all of the heroic traits are OK. I personally use Radiance of Dark Glory and put in on like a CLoDM or something. it activates EVERY hero phase, and 1 health on a unit in our tough army is better than in most; Also, someone following Bela'kor or Archeon around and healing them 3 each hero phase is demoralizing to the opponent. Lastly, a couple of armies (looking at you Nurgle) have effects like disease that a single point of healing makes a huge difference in. 18. I've been taking Infernal puppet, though in most games it hasn't significantly mattered. I had 1 good game where an opponent infantry 2-cast wizard was sweating a little. 19. Meaningful Control Score conversations have come up few and far between for me. I've played quite a bit of Spearhead and control score there is actually very meaningful. But in AoS it feels like in 9/10 situations there's going to be a clear winner on an objective, especially since the size of the objective basically guarantees you're fighting before you score. 20. I agree with the StD spell lore and StD Manifestations comments all over. All of our spells have their use, but 3d6 charge is hard to pass up with our slow melee army. The StD manifestations are bad. 21. I know Morbid Conjurations is the go-to lore right now. I have not used it yet and will probably try them out soon - That said, our army tends to have low or even no cast if you aren't using Bela'kor or Archeon, and those cast don't tend to have any bonus to cast. I've had good use with Primal Energy lore - A little extra healing has helped me quite a bit, and the flaming head can give you a little ranged damage if you really need to target something in the back line. - In particular it has helped me against Skaven warp lightning cannons.

@Jaccep 2 ай бұрын

--- List 1 --- (Coming back, I think I was mistaken and this wasn't a list but just highlighting a few units?) 22. List 1 is overall underpowered with StD's current environment, but likely would do fine in a casual environment. Bela'kor is fantastic and worth the cost - even with the points raise since your video. It's also difficult for casual players to deal with. Abraxia is good, but probably a little overcosted. She is less killy than expected due to no mortal crits (usually) but more tanky than you expect due to the 3+ save now and ward. I would not take her without Varanguard in your list; Not because she wouldn't be good, but because you can get better utility for the points. 23. The point about Varanguard not needing the fight-last debuff remove if you use them right didn't have anything to do with the 3 vs 6 stack - It's because the Varanguard should be used to get in combat range of 1 unit, wipe it, and second fight pile-into a 2nd unit to wipe it too. With the right circumstances/positioning you won't be hit back at all. This is easier to do when your opponent is purposely trying to get a backline unit 3" away from the front line to screen them. 24. I'll stick with my comment back in 9 - 3-man Varanguard need Khorne. Khorne has made the difference in killing units more often than not. The 6 man just melts units with or with khorne, so the survivability is nice for when opponents try to lock them down on their turn to prevent the charge. Their Crit Mortals (2 -> 3 on the charge) is their main factor. You can consistently get at least 6 mortals on top the with a 3-man khorne charge, which is easy to pull off. 25. I feel charging for StD is fairly reliable. While I agree with Honest Wargamer about this being a hero hammer edition, I think the likely hood of charging is good enough to take khorne over undivided for Varanguard. 26. Fighting twice has to be declared before any fighting occurs now, so that makes things interesting for the player in this edition. I pop it earlier than later unless i have a specific vision in the current battle for it to be used i.e. a massive hero. But it's a great screen killer with that 2nd pile-in and to let other units charge through later. 27. I use 5man knights with khorne. I don't intend to charge with them in turn 1 or 2, but use them for objectives and as an opportunity charge unit. They will get bogged down guaranteed if they don't kill on the charge, which is why I use the Khorne mark usually. If I'm doing a full cavalry list I'll actually mix and match khorne and nurgle knights to have a little of both. Put nurgle ones in the front to receive the enemy charge, and keep your khorne ones on the back line to charge in and free up the nurgle ones that are already locked in. 28. I don't think the Myrmidon is worth it. Since you've recorded he actually got reduced to 170. For 10 points more at 180 you can take a CLoDM to get a 1-2 punch with Knights or VARANGUARD instead, which is just more effective and more consistent to get to your opponent on your terms than your Ogroids. In addition, the knights or varanguard are more tanky than your ogroids. They're just too slow and the lower armor save doesn't help, and they are shooting bait and more likely to be charged than doing their charging. If they're getting a buff from being wounded, there's a good chance you're losing one or two. Now, in terms of making a themed casual list, I love this unit. I would drop Bela'kor and Abraxia for a more casual themed list, but a Myrmidon and ogroids coming out of the woods as a vanguard unit with some darkoath and a foot hero or something? I like the narrative potential. ----- 29. The asterisk is related to a base size issue from the first publishing. They messed up the base sizes on some guys with the 3e battletome, which they fixed. For some reason the 4e index reverted them all back to the wrong base size! 30. I take that CLoDM! It's been fantastic to run alongside any cavalry, and to throw that healing artifact on. ---- Actual list 1 --- 31. Most individual unit stuff has already been covered above. This is in line with the meta for StD currently, and is a great competitive list. I have not used furies personally, but they have been good objective and battle tactic grabbers for many StD list. The downsides to this list are it's very weak to shooting; The furies will melt under even moderate shooting, and the varanguard, while still tough, are weaker than most StD vs shooting due to the unit only having 15 wounds. If a single one of the two units gets destroyed early on, then capturing objectives will be difficult due to low unit count. In addition, this list is (relatively) low wounds compared to most StD list I've built, though probably relatively in line with most armies. (is 100 wounds still pretty standard in 4e? I haven't looked into that) Another issue with this list would be it's ability to deal with manifestations. With more of the core power concentrated into 2 units, there are quite a few manifestations that reduce speed/charge distance, block, and/or do mortals to pass through. It's easier for the opponent to focus those spells on your two varanguard units. and Bela'kor isn't a good enough wizard to put a stop to that reliably. Bela'kor also needs to be up with the varanguard to use his abilities to their full potential, so basically this is a deathball list. More maneuverable armies will dance around us more likely. if KO weren't bad in 4e so far, they would be a difficult match up. I imagine Lumineth would be very rough for us with this list. 32. Positively, I think 1 drop is difficult for most armies to do this edition. Putting the first turn reliably into your hands is powerful with the varanguard to get them into targets on your terms. I agree that no artifact, etc isn't a significant loss for us. 33. Funny to hear the loss was to a mirror match. I've had a hot streak in 4e so far, but mirror matches have been the most difficult. --- List 2 --- 34. I'm not a fan of both Bela'kor and Abraxia in the same list in general, but this list is more in line with what I would play for a "local" competitive. Dropping Abraxia and the Raptoryx and adding a CLoDM and a unit of knights would be better imo. CLoDM lets a varanguard or knights unit strike after him, and the knights fill that objective capture roll in place of the raptoryx, but more reliably. Alternatively you could drop Abraxia, Raptoryx, and a warrior unit to add a reinforced block of nurgle chosen and a chaos lord on foot. Bela'kor and the varnaugard put the pressure on while the chosen come in behind as a tough and massive hammer. There are a lot of other ways to change this up and keep it a 3 drop or make it a 2 drop without issue, while still increasing the performance IMO. 35. First person I've seen agree with the Primal Energy lore for the healing! 36. Leaving at least 1 group of warrior in is good too. They are a great anvil for the points. I believe a 3x20 warrior list has actually been doing well because it's just so many wounds at a 3+, it's difficult for a lot of armies to deal with. ---- --- List 3--- 37. I like the flavor of this list and would totally use it for a themed list locally. But I still feel it's too slow and easy to kill compared to anything else StD can bring to the table. In the right match up it may perform due to the raw potential output, but I feel more often than not it will be shot or out-charged. I think this list also dies to good screening. All that said, it does look fun and I would try it out if I had more ogroids. I'll probably pick more up eventually! ---- 38. Thinking about your demon prince comments, I would be curious to try an undivided list with Bela'kor or Archeon, an undivided demon prince, etc. Let the demon prince buff up your centerpiece, or other units as needed. Very good for hero killing which I think does come up enough to matter, even if it's not possibly as good as khorne or nurgle for a lot of things. 39. I think the internal balance for most Warriors of Chaos units is decent, minus some of the heroes like the manticores, etc. I think the rest of the index (Monsters, Darkoath, etc) are so underpowered that points can't fix them. External balance, we are a tough cookie to crack competitively, and are very tough casually. I'm actually running into the problem where for casual local games I have to use purposely underpowered list or just use a different army entirely, otherwise things just don't end up very fun for anybody. I've brought a couple of what I thought are 7/10 or 8/10 competitive StD list to local games and have generally gotten the opponent to concede by the end of turn 2 - And that's just not a good time for anyone! Thank you for the video, I apologize again for the rambling! I had to split this into 2 comments!

@strategoi 2 ай бұрын

Loved reading your thoughts - Jonas

@igorcomedyman3160 3 ай бұрын

what was changed - the base sizes where incorrect in a first iteration (like chosen/hero on 32 and mounted lord on a regular knight base). Only real change - Eternus can now take Belakors legionnaires and furies etc

@ryanburruss 3 ай бұрын

Thanks Igor! Really wish GW would’ve put the changes in magenta or something!

@igorcomedyman3160 3 ай бұрын

@@ryanburruss true, that was such a shadow update