Sling TSi engine failure after takeoff - Impossible Turn analysis

[@onebravotango]

Mike, your emphasis on safety and responsible training is truly commendable. Discussing the 180-degree turnback option after an engine failure post takeoff is crucial knowledge, but as you rightly point out, it's no replacement for proper training with a Certified Flight Instructor (CFI). Your commitment to promoting safe practices and reminding viewers to seek expert guidance reinforces the importance of learning from experienced professionals. Keep sharing valuable insights and helping others prioritize safety in the skies! 🛩👨‍✈📚

[@onebravotango]

Thanks Mike, you are doing a wonderful job.

[@pelicanaviationjourney]

1AM... so far I am a fan. Your positioning is perfectly logical to me. And even after recently seeing my dearly beloved AOPA burn in... I still wonder what I would do in the same situation. I would love to practice it. Great job tiger, love your work. 👍

[@outwiththem]

I learned them in 1996. Teardrop with some power and no power turnback. My CFI had a great method and markers on altimeter and ASi. Later on he came with the 777 formula for 4 cylinders and 999 formula for 6 cylinders airplanes..

[@JavierBrent]

Teardrop if partial power if under 500 agl so you get distance from the runway if on your side. Turn 40 degrees to the side for first turn to angled and troubleshoot while getting some room for the second turn. Only do that if power is down but not surging.

[@CFITOMAHAWK]

For under 500 agl Teardrop- The Partial Power Teadrop is.. Go with the crosswind for first turn to 40 degrees angle away from crosswind, the first leg for 4 seconds while leaning mixture and changing tanks, then 2nd turn is 40 bank to turnback at Vglide. The 444 Teardrop Turnback. After the 2nd turn, use Flaps if high, also cut mixture if high, dive to the numbers then cut flaps on flare. Brake with no flaps no prop turning.

[@mrb13676]

So i did this with an instructor today in the Sling4. Lowest we were able to safely pull it off was 400AGL - this with 3 seconds reaction time, 12-15kt headwind and a field in an open plain. Standing start and a Vy climb (with level flight to get some distance upwind of the runway) The surprising thing for me was the lack of altitude loss in the turnback - on average around 150ft at 70kts 45deg bank. I know its controversial but I'd say that in MY aircraft, on a favourable day, I'd brief a turnback above 500ft. Thanks again for making us think about this...

[@OneAlphaMike]

Wow! I know the Sling 4 has a different wing than the TSi, but it’s surprising that your altitude lost in the 180 is HALF of mine! In any case, don’t forget that the headwind makes a huge difference. If you had no headwind your minimum turnback altitude would be substantially higher. You might also consider adding some altitude for a “fudge factor,” knowing that we likely won’t perform as well in an emergency as we do in practice. Of course, it also depends on the airport you’re returning to versus the off-airport options. So many variables to consider!

[@OneAlphaMike]

Also, what was the density altitude and how heavy were you when you did your practice turnbacks?

[@mrb13676]

@@OneAlphaMike was approx 7000ft at airfield (airfield alt 5500) - prob 800kg /1700lbs gross weight. (2 average crew/100L fuel). I think conditions were ideal - as you pointed out it would depend on wind, environment around the field etc. Will do some more testing and report back.

[@LTVoyager]

Is there no way to calibrate your airspeed on the Garmin? I haven’t looked at that aspect of my build yet, but I have to assume you can calibrate the airspeed to be more accurate.

[@OneAlphaMike]

​@@LTVoyager No, you can't.

[@Captndarty]

I think this is an excellent topic that never gets talked about. I’m a firm believer that every skill level and Aircraft are different. You have to practice in your specific make and model. A few months ago I wanted to see how low I could make this “impossible turn“ in my Rans is 21 with the Rotax 915. One of the most critical aspect to this is having a good coordinated flight install recovery techniques. An audible AOA is also extremely beneficial. I did mine at half fuel on a 50° day. I took off at the far end of the runway so that I would be the furthest from the runway when I turned back. I knew that if I was ever too low my wings level, add power and recover. I started at 800 feet then 500 feet and my third and final attempt was dropping the power at 280 feet. I gained another 30 feet in the turn, which was rather steep, but I had a lower angle of attack with a nose pointed below the horizon. Made it back to the runway no problem. Granted my aircraft is a light sport with a best glide speed of 59kts and the biggest thing was that I was expecting it. Nice job with yours! I should also film mine to see exactly what it is I did, and how I did it

[@OneAlphaMike]

Yeah, it's amazing how low that STOL planes like yours can pull it off. The lowest one we analyzed was 535' AGL with a 10-knot headwind, but had I been lighter or the DA had been lower or if I had used a Vx climb, the minimum altitude would be been even lower. Still, to stay on the conservative side, I'd probably add a couple hundred feet or so for fudge-factor, depending on other contributing factors.

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

MacSpadden was confronted with the worst kind of EFATO. And That kind of EFATO i think he didnt know. The Surging Engine kind. The worst kind that can fool you into try to reach fields and suddenly engine quits all AND THEN YOU CANT. Many good pilots have been fooled by Surging Engine EFATO. Then engine quits and they crash short. I had 5 engine failures on pistons in the 3,000 hours that i flew them in South America cargo i flew in the 1980's. 2 total but they were twins. DC3 and Piper Aztec. I landed them feathered engine spitting oil. The other 3 were partial power. Singles. On take off. Lost one cylinder. There are 2 basic kinds of partial power engine fails (LOTOT). This is for 4 cylinder engines. 1-The Vibration LOTOT, 2-The ENGINE CUTTING OFF IN AND OUT LOTOT. In the vibration LOTOT you sort of lose the climb only, so if over 500 agl, you can still Turnback or Turnaround airport if know how to before. Dont know ? Dont go there. Good luck crashing outside the airport. Good to lean mixture and SOME carb heat apply after lowering the nose. I was on Cherokee 180 on both and did the downwind leg at 1-200 agl, 2nd at 250 agl. I didnt know how to do turnbacks, so i went to a low downwind leg. Scary as hell downwind leg 200 agl at Vglide with engine vibrating. In the worst LOTOT or engine cutting off in and out, or engine noises, change tanks and be over say 700 agl before Turnback to opposite or side runway, and dont think about going around the airport, the engine can cut out before you complete the turnaround. = Dont try any turn to airport under 700 agl if engine is cutting out badly. Be a Turnback or a Turnaround maneuver. Practice LOTOT. At least the engine vibrating "Turnaround" at 1,800 rpm and later on "The Turnback" from 700 up (depends). LOTOT should be required due is 3 times more common than EFATO. LOTOT and EFATO can get you easily if you dont know well. So Ignorance is not the solution. IGNORANCE IS THE PROBLEM.

[@timjohnson1578]

Great information and this is a great way to break down so many variables we all need to consider with our departures and day to day flying. This information will make people consider so much more.

[@JavierBrent]

For power off better follow a rule. The 777 No Power Turnback Rule. If expecting to climb at 700 fpm plus, have 7 knots or more wind, then mark the altimeter for 700 agl or more. I learned that on the Emergency LowManeuvering channel. The 700 No power Turback rule. Partial Power he taught from 400 agl if not surging engine. If surging, dont turnback, headwind turn if any.

[@mrb13676]

Great presentation and analysis Mike.. I think the climb gradient offered by the TSi is a major advantage here. Definitely going to replicate these flight tests in my Sling4 - will be interesting to see how the numbers change. And you hit it on the nail - this is going to be something you want to be proficient in. I reckon I’m going to add the power off immediate 180 to my regular proficiency flights. Thank you! Keep em coming!

[@slk23]

This makes me think that that flying the traffic pattern on departure, when possible, is a good safety practice. Upwind, crosswind, downwind, then continuing to climb well above what would be a tight base leg. In my airplane I'd be at least 500' above TPA by that 'base' leg. Yes, it adds a few minutes if your final course is in the direction of the runway departed from, but it keeps the airplane close to runway until above pattern altitude. I fly out of a controlled airport where this wouldn't be practicable since it would conflict with ATC's normal procedures, but at an uncontrolled airport it could be safely flown without conflicting with other aircraft.

[@ibgarrett]

VERY good video on the impossible turn. Saving this one into my CFI file for future instruction.

[@ernestayo6131]

Something to keep in mind and discuss with ur instructor. Personally, I have executed an “impossible turn” in my flying career. I was in my Biplane which was light weight and had excellent glide ratio.

[@JavierBrent]

For power off better follow a rule. The 777 No Power Turnback Rule. If expecting to climb at 700 fpm plus, have 7 knots or more wind, then mark the altimeter for 700 agl or more. I learned that on the Emergency LowManeuvering channel. The 700 No power Turback rule. Partial Power he taught from 400 agl if not surging engine.

[@6MikeCharlie]

Mike - this is fantastic data. Thanks so much for providing this analysis. As you pointed out, there are many variables but it's good to have a framework and even more important to practice it. I trained at KPDK in an SR20 while getting my PPL. It is a densely populated area with few good options if an engine failure occurs on takeoff. To his credit, my CFI repeatedly made me go through scenarios and verbalize them on every takeoff (to get it through my weak brain). If engine failure occurs before rotation, max braking, S turns, etc; after takeoff but below 600 AGL, best glide and straight ahead; between 600 and 1000 feet AGL, pull CAPS; above 1000 feet AGL best glide and turn back to the field. I've tried to get data on altitudes for chute deployment in the TSi but only heard generalities, so I'm very much looking forward to your next video that discusses that as well.

[@CFITOMAHAWK2]

I learned 4 kinds of EFATO maneuvers ON THE RUNWAY DID THEM TOO in 1996. Many "Turnback Accidents" are not. They were instead "Turning Around the airport" with a partial power low power engine, stalled, crashed before final approach of the same runway they took off front. They didnt "Turnback" when needed and crashed doing A TURNAROUND. Those are 2 very different maneuvers. Good to learn both. Most EFATO are partial power or LOTOT. You have 4-6 cylinders that can fail.

[@OneAlphaMike]

That's true about partial power failures, and it's one thing Rick from Inflight Metrics saw in some NTSB reports. The issue starts off as a partial loss of power, which gives the pilot the idea that they can fly around a bit more. Some even try to follow the pattern back to the airport Then the partial loss of power turns into a total loss, and they're not in a position to land.

[@CFITOMAHAWK2]

@@OneAlphaMike Yep, and they stall and crash on the Turnaround maneuver, and a duffus that dont know EFATO maneuvers (Seen them even in FAA and NTSB) adds "ANOTHER TURNBACK CRASH" to the statistics. You see, you see! That is why you should not practice Turnbacks they yell all over. They lie because they cannot tell A Turnback, from A Turnaround the airport.

[@adriannye]

Great work! Your height above the end of the departure runway is a good indicator of your actual climb gradient, which eliminates guessing about headwind or density altitude effects. If this height is more than 500 I consider it safe to try a turn back. If not i don't. Whatever number you use, pre-brief it and commit to it before takeoff. In addition to startle factor there is pure indecision, which is probable more common and can be solved by pre-briefing your emergency procedures.

[@OneAlphaMike]

Very good points. I discuss the pre-brief and related items in my recent video "Ballistic Parachute deployment considerations."

[@erinb6530]

absolutley oustanding video, my new sling arrives later this year cant wait i will certainley be practing this. thank you

[@cam7375]

Nice video! Practice is key and our Garmin Avionics really help with ESP, AOA indicator, stall warning. I have Sling 2 Garmin IFR and parachute. BTW, you are going to get carpel tunnel unless you stop spinning the heading bug to get it from from say east to west. Just press the heading bug and it will slew to current heading. Same with altitude knob. Ok, off to practice!

[@OneAlphaMike]

Yes, I use the push-to-slew feature all the time! Not sure why I didn't this time. 😆 Probably because I frequently fly another airplane that doesn’t have that feature.

[@YourFriendlyGApilot]

Thank you so much for this video. Very important, makes me definitely want to work on this next time I take up my cfi in my TSi.

[@CFITOMAHAWK2]

Most engine fails are partial power. Powr drops to 1,700 to 1,900 rpm depending on engine. I knew a 60 hour PPL that brought back a C172 (2 big guys on board) with partial power from only 200 agl after take off instead of crashing in front where only houses were. No power? Dont Turnback under 600 agl and only if you were climbing at over 700 fpm. If shallow climb, and no power, DONT TURNBACK, go towards wind or a nice field on sides. Power and no power are different maneuvers. Practice over a highway at 1,000' agl first ON SIMULATOR. Do the partial power first, troubleshooting engine BEFORE TURNBACK. TURNBACKS ARE ARE A FUN and challenging maneuvers that FAA and AOPA are recommending SINCE 2018. I learned them in 1996 From Emergency LowManeuvering channel old CFI. See my playlist and his too.

[@aaronhill6193]

Thank you for doing this and helping me wrap my head around considerations when flight planning!

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

MacSpadden was confronted with the worst kind of EFATO. And That kind of EFATO i think he didnt know. The Surging Engine kind. The worst kind that can fool you into try to reach fields and suddenly engine quits all AND THEN YOU CANT. Many good pilots have been fooled by Surging Engine EFATO. Then engine quits and they crash short. I had 5 engine failures on pistons in the 3,000 hours that i flew them in South America cargo i flew in the 1980's. 2 total but they were twins. DC3 and Piper Aztec. I landed them feathered engine spitting oil. The other 3 were partial power. Singles. On take off. Lost one cylinder. There are 2 basic kinds of partial power engine fails (LOTOT). This is for 4 cylinder engines. 1-The Vibration LOTOT, 2-The ENGINE CUTTING OFF IN AND OUT LOTOT. In the vibration LOTOT you sort of lose the climb only, so if over 500 agl, you can still Turnback or Turnaround airport if know how to before. Dont know ? Dont go there. Good luck crashing outside the airport. Good to lean mixture and SOME carb heat apply after lowering the nose. I was on Cherokee 180 on both and did the downwind leg at 1-200 agl, 2nd at 250 agl. I didnt know how to do turnbacks, so i went to a low downwind leg. Scary as hell downwind leg 200 agl at Vglide with engine vibrating. In the worst LOTOT or engine cutting off in and out, or engine noises, change tanks and be over say 700 agl before Turnback to opposite or side runway, and dont think about going around the airport, the engine can cut out before you complete the turnaround. = Dont try any turn to airport under 700 agl if engine is cutting out badly. Be a Turnback or a Turnaround maneuver. Practice LOTOT. At least the engine vibrating "Turnaround" at 1,800 rpm and later on "The Turnback" from 700 up (depends). LOTOT should be required due is 3 times more common than EFATO. LOTOT and EFATO can get you easily if you dont know well. So Ignorance is not the solution. IGNORANCE IS THE PROBLEM.

[@Triple_J.1]

The great mystery in any discussion about "the impossible turn", is what is the aircrafts climb-gradient, and what is its glide-ratio? Another thing missing: What is the best glide speed: IN A BANKED TURN? These are rudimentarily simple to calculate, but I have never met a single other pilot who could actually calculate the precise numbers or even knew how!

[@NathanBallardSaferFlying]

Excellent analysis, thanks for the in-depth data, all the things that should be considered for this emergency situation 👍👍

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

FOR TOTAL ENGINE FAIL, Use the 777 EFATO Turnback Rule for light singles. The 999 Rule is for heavy singles. The 777 rule can be done even when on preflight or driving to airport. Will I be able to climb over 700 fpm? Yes? Are the winds over 7 knots? Yes? Then mark the altimeter to 700 agl for EFATO turnback or slighly more depending on your experience on Turnbacks The light Single engine 777 Turnback Rule = THE Nno Power 777 TURBACK RULE FOR LIGHT SINGLES. Between me and my 1990's students we had to do 4 turnbacks due bird strikes, loose engine cowls an engine problems on take off. 4 airplanes saved i know. iGNORANCE of Turnback turs is not the solution, IGNORANCE is the problem.

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

YOU NEED TO KNOW TURNBACKS.- Not only for EFATO. You need turnbacks also on Circling Approaches, Flyover Turnbacks, Box Canyon turnbacks, overhead airport to enter the 45 after. Many accidents on those 5 places were the pilot made turnback errors and crashed. His fault- for not knowing Turnbacks well. A 180 is not a full turnback, just an U Turn. Turnbacks are bigger turns that finish at almost or the same place you were before. A course reversal, not just a heading reversal 180 turn. Turnbacks are more than a 180. Many CFI's call a 180 a turnback. No its not. TO TEACH TURNBACKS; It is better to teach "Turnbacks To A Flyover" FIRST. The GRM TURNBACKS first, then the emergency and circling ones later on after you do them level flight well. I taught them all 2 decades ago and researched about the accidents causes on them a lot. Most pilots dont know those maneuvers well and do them very wrong, or stall and crash. Even ATPs crashes. 1-The Teardrop Turnback to a flyover a spot on ground do it first. Fly at Vglide speed slow flight over highway (w. a Crosswind). With flaps 10 degrees. 1,000' agl. Fly over spot on highway, turn away from wind 40 degr. , then into wind. Fly over the spot on highway again, after flyover repeat same steps on other side. Do 3 on each side until perfection Teardrop Turnbacks. One turn turnbacks require 2k feet dist. from flyover spot. Dont do them yet. Those are more difficult and dangerous. Later on i will type about those Hook Turnbacks. Cropdusters do them only after getting low in weight. I used to call them Question Mark Shaped Turnbacks. 2k distance after flyover, Vglide speed, bank 45 degr. more later on that QMark ? Turnback. 2-Then Box Canyon Turnbacks Scenario (Climbing Vx but at 60% power only to sim a 10k density alt.) Then the Circling Approach overfly + Turnback, then the LOTOT Turnbacks and no power EFATO at end. Some day you will have to do those maneuvers. Some say to keep the ignorance. But Ignorance is not the solution, IGNORANCE IS THE PROBLEM. Most pilots that crashed doing turnbacks on those 5 places were Turnback ignorant

[@CFITOMAHAWK]

i put your video for this poster to see it. Salud hermano..

[@outwiththem]

27:33 Climbing with 10 degrees flaps more or less is safer if engine fails, safer visibility, and safer for rear cylinder cooling to due bit less nose up which cuts some ventilation to rear cylinders. Safer climb. Then at TPA the flaps up. I learned that in 1996 from ELM channel Bush Pilot CFI.

[@OneAlphaMike]

Different procedures for different airplanes. The Sling TSi climbs markedly better with flaps retracted. Cylinder cooling is not a concern with the Rotax thanks to liquid cooled cylinder heads.

[@outwiththem]

@@OneAlphaMike Vx flaps or less. Even in winter we climbed on Cherokees with 10 degrees of flaps at almost Vy. FPM as good as Vy and safer over nose view. and if LOTOT, we had some safe speed over stall speed.

[@outwiththem]

@@OneAlphaMike Your climb angle is better with some flaps. See your chart. No flaps is 6 something and with flaps is 7.0

[@OneAlphaMike]

@@outwiththemI can see how that number might be misleading. Those numbers were taken from a small snippet of time, not over the entire climb. As mentioned in the video, the important number is the bottom row, which is the horizontal distance traveled over the entire climb, from liftoff to 1,000' AGL. There you can see that the climb where I retracted the flaps reached 1,000' AGL 130 feet sooner than the climb where I left the flaps in. That shows that the climb angle over the entire climb is actually better when retracting the flaps. That said, it's not a huge difference, so if you prefer not retracting the flaps, it's not a big deal.

[@outwiththem]

@@OneAlphaMike most engine fails on take off are the partial power kind. And it becomes like a slow flight at Vglide speed. And you need a bit of flaps for lift in it to avoid using too much nose up. With say 10 degree flaps, you are ready for the main cause of engine fails. More..

[@N141D]

Super presentation Mike!

[@steveyoung6787]

Wow. Impressive analysis. Thank you for that. Super helpful.

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

MacSpadden was confronted with the worst kind of EFATO. And That kind of EFATO i think he didnt know. The Surging Engine kind. The worst kind that can fool you into try to reach fields and suddenly engine quits all AND THEN YOU CANT. Many good pilots have been fooled by Surging Engine EFATO. Then engine quits and they crash short. I had 5 engine failures on pistons in the 3,000 hours that i flew them in South America cargo i flew in the 1980's. 2 total but they were twins. DC3 and Piper Aztec. I landed them feathered engine spitting oil. The other 3 were partial power. Singles. On take off. Lost one cylinder. There are 2 basic kinds of partial power engine fails (LOTOT). This is for 4 cylinder engines. 1-The Vibration LOTOT, 2-The ENGINE CUTTING OFF IN AND OUT LOTOT. In the vibration LOTOT you sort of lose the climb only, so if over 500 agl, you can still Turnback or Turnaround airport if know how to before. Dont know ? Dont go there. Good luck crashing outside the airport. Good to lean mixture and SOME carb heat apply after lowering the nose. I was on Cherokee 180 on both and did the downwind leg at 1-200 agl, 2nd at 250 agl. I didnt know how to do turnbacks, so i went to a low downwind leg. Scary as hell downwind leg 200 agl at Vglide with engine vibrating. In the worst LOTOT or engine cutting off in and out, or engine noises, change tanks and be over say 700 agl before Turnback to opposite or side runway, and dont think about going around the airport, the engine can cut out before you complete the turnaround. = Dont try any turn to airport under 700 agl if engine is cutting out badly. Be a Turnback or a Turnaround maneuver. Practice LOTOT. At least the engine vibrating "Turnaround" at 1,800 rpm and later on "The Turnback" from 700 up (depends). LOTOT should be required due is 3 times more common than EFATO. LOTOT and EFATO can get you easily if you dont know well. So Ignorance is not the solution. IGNORANCE IS THE PROBLEM.

[@CFITOMAHAWK2]

A 180 is not "A TURNBACK". That will put you on a low downwind leg to A TURNAROUND THE AIRPORT INSTEAD. A TURNAROUND takes more time and distance and more prone to crash before final approach low turn or on it. Many EFATO CRASHES were "TURNAROUND MANEUVER. Not A "TURNBACK MANEUVER. Most Turnbacks are with no damages, and no report needed. I did one on a Cherokee and im not counted as a sucess doing it. But if an idtion did it wrong and crashed, that is big time counted. I not counted they say.

[@Top10VideosOnTheWeb]

Fantastic - Thanks for all the work on our behalf. Might be worthwhile for someone to create a simple app that would give you some initial guess of turnback attitude based on Vx or Vy and headwind, and crosswind, and runway length. Nothing is perfect, but it would be a good briefing tool to have an idea ahead of time what decision - turnback, go straight or pull chute - to make. Again - THANKS!

[@OneAlphaMike]

That was the original intent of Inflight Metrics, to build an app called Turnback Calculator. I think they gave up on it. There's just too many variables which could affect the calculation. Plus I think there was concern about liability.

[@Top10VideosOnTheWeb]

@@OneAlphaMike Always a concern about liability. Seems one could do some of these practice turnbacks, look at their results using calm conditions, apply some formulas to winds, add in a fudge factor, then have something that would be actionable. As you mentioned, the airport environment is generally a better place to land even if you miss the runway or even taxiway.

[@OneAlphaMike]

Yeah, these things appear fairly simple to begin with, but when you get into it, it's more complex. The wind calculations are probably the easiest part. When you think about it, you'd have to record several climbs and turnbacks at different weights and temperatures to get basic performance datapoints from which you could extrapolate for a range of environmental conditions. And you'd have to do that for every different airplane model. It quickly becomes a big project.

[@Top10VideosOnTheWeb]

@@OneAlphaMike Well, I was just (personally) interested in the TSi numbers .. just doing an app for the TSi.

[@LTVoyager]

It isn’t just the Sling that behaves this way. I have flown Cessna 150, 172 and 182 models and Piper Cherokees up through the Arrow and all will transition to a decent power off glide by themselves assuming the airplane is trimmed for a reasonable speed on climb out.

[@OneAlphaMike]

I agree. I mainly mention it because there’s a popular KZbinr who recommends a cruise climb instead of Vy because he says his airplane (a Bonanza) loses a lot of airspeed on engine-out unless you give it lot of forward stick.

[@LTVoyager]

@@OneAlphaMike A Bo is not going to make a successful return on engine fail anyway so doesn’t matter much the speed of climb out. 😁

[@pelicanaviationjourney]

PS.., check out my PPLA Test 11 km sling TSI Glide ...from open water to remote Runway... and then unfortunately the worst possibility happened.

[@alleyratAnderson]

Let's say that you are taking off from 56F, you'd probably be headed South since 70% of the time the wind here is from the South, would you attempt a turnback of would you try to land on highway 70 which normally has very light traffic? Heading North are cotton fields as well as South. I'm not sure if there power lines over highway 70 in this area, I'll pay attention the next time I'm up there.

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

--- About Richard Mac Spadden; killed while flying as passenger with an ex NFL football player as PIC. MacSpadden was not flying that airplane and i bet he, who had practiced EFATO Turnbacks" did not try a too low one. The ones who dont practice them are the ones that try them the wrong way, LIKE TOO LOW. The owner of the airplane is always flying it in photo missions not other man while the owner sits on side. MacSpadden got killed by that guy that didnt know turnbacks and turned back too low. The Ignorants are the ones that crash, not the ones with experience on the maneuver. Duhh! The Cessna Cardinal looked like they could make the runway, but someone pop out the dragfull landing gear and they didnt. Most times the owners do that to save cost, not an expert like MacSpadden. MacSpadden was killed by a bad pilot. Also on photo you can see the airplane had a full up elevator. The owner did that, killing the glide. I took my commercial on that airplane and know it well. Owners kill a lot of passengers with pilot errors they do as PIC. Be careful who you fly with. Too many good pilots were killed by the PIC pilot errors, not them.lso on photo you can see the airplane had a full up elevator. Mac Spadden spoke about not pulling too much elevator. That was the owner. Too many good pilots were killed by the PIC pilot errors, not them. Too many good drivers are killed by bad drivers too. Be careful who you fly with. And who you drive with too. Dont be the next killed as a passenger.

[@outwiththem]

Startled time cannot be 4 seconds plus. If that person is so slow, better crash in front, never do a turnback, or turnaround the airport. Good luck with that crash. Imagine a driver that takes 4 seconds to turn when someone runs a light in front, or a pedestrian running ect. or a kid running for a ball on street, or an animal, etc. 4 seconds to do something? Most people react in 1-2 seconds unless impaired mentally by panic. Seen 1.5 seconds on actual RTO videos on youtube.

[@OneAlphaMike]

Startle factor included for worst-case scenario. Many pilots erroneously attempt troubleshooting first, which as mentioned, is not the right thing to do.

[@CFITOMAHAWK]

This was the first video teaching in detail the 4 kinds of EFATO (total off) and ROTOT (partial power) maneuvers to bring it back to the runway even with 16 knots of winds. Was made by my CFI a while ago. He had 11 emergencies and 5 engine fails when he flew twins and singles as Bush Pilot CFI and Charter Pilot. Lots of info here. kzbin.info/www/bejne/b2XPmmSXpaxgl6s

[@Jeremy-fy1sz]

I'd agree that the factor for turn back is aircraft performance. If your aircraft can climb faster than the best glide ratio, then you have a better chance of making the runway. On most low performance aircraft on a minimum spec runway, you'll never make the runway even if you make the turn. In gliders we always learned that below 300', you always land straight ahead because there is simply not enough altitude to make any turns. I always found that the first step in a rope break or engine failure is to get that nose down for airspeed and to see the picture of landing areas.

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

MacSpadden was confronted with the worst kind of EFATO. And That kind of EFATO i think he didnt know. The Surging Engine kind. The worst kind that can fool you into try to reach fields and suddenly engine quits all AND THEN YOU CANT. Many good pilots have been fooled by Surging Engine EFATO. Then engine quits and they crash short. I had 5 engine failures on pistons in the 3,000 hours that i flew them in South America cargo i flew in the 1980's. 2 total but they were twins. DC3 and Piper Aztec. I landed them feathered engine spitting oil. The other 3 were partial power. Singles. On take off. Lost one cylinder. There are 2 basic kinds of partial power engine fails (LOTOT). This is for 4 cylinder engines. 1-The Vibration LOTOT, 2-The ENGINE CUTTING OFF IN AND OUT LOTOT. In the vibration LOTOT you sort of lose the climb only, so if over 500 agl, you can still Turnback or Turnaround airport if know how to before. Dont know ? Dont go there. Good luck crashing outside the airport. Good to lean mixture and SOME carb heat apply after lowering the nose. I was on Cherokee 180 on both and did the downwind leg at 1-200 agl, 2nd at 250 agl. I didnt know how to do turnbacks, so i went to a low downwind leg. Scary as hell downwind leg 200 agl at Vglide with engine vibrating. In the worst LOTOT or engine cutting off in and out, or engine noises, change tanks and be over say 700 agl before Turnback to opposite or side runway, and dont think about going around the airport, the engine can cut out before you complete the turnaround. = Dont try any turn to airport under 700 agl if engine is cutting out badly. Be a Turnback or a Turnaround maneuver. Practice LOTOT. At least the engine vibrating "Turnaround" at 1,800 rpm and later on "The Turnback" from 700 up (depends). LOTOT should be required due is 3 times more common than EFATO. LOTOT and EFATO can get you easily if you dont know well. So Ignorance is not the solution. IGNORANCE IS THE PROBLEM.

[@bigj259]

I have done impossible turn in the TSI almost a hundred times 600agl is all you need.

[@andyhughes1776]

Click bait - this is NOT about the Sling TSi engine failure and turnback. There wouldnt be a need to turnback if all aircraft are Sling TSi because the Rotax doesn't quit!

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

Reduction of power ON TAKE OFF KINDS; the ROTOT OR Lost of power LOTOT. also called. I like to use ROTOT lately. I had 5 engine failures on pistons on take off in the 3,000 hours that i flew them in South America cargo in the 1980's. 2 were total fails but they were twins. DC3 and Piper Aztec. I landed them feathered. The other 3 were partial power fails Cherokees with cargo on. On take off. 2 i lost one cylinder. The third was fuel pressure down There are 2 basic kinds of partial power engine fails (ROTOT). 1-The Vibration LOTOT and 2-ENGINE CUTTING OFF IN AND OUT ROTOT. On the vibration LOTOT you sort of lose the climb on a 4 cylinder engine, so if over 500 agl, you can still Turnback or Turnaround airport if know how to before. Dont know ? Dont go there. Good luck crashing outside the airport. Lean mixture and SOME carb heat apply after lowering nose. Troubleshoting with lean mixt and changing tanks is mostly needed as you plan to turnback or do a turnaround. 6 cylinder engines most times you still can climb to 500 easier & turnaround the airport or Turnback to side or back runway if know Turnback. In the worst LOTOT or engine cutting off in and out, change tanks and be over say 500 agl be 500 agl if engine is cutting out badly. Be a Turnback or a Turnaround maneuver.

[@JavierBrent]

Hi Jay. The 777 No Power Turnback Rule is easy to do. Post about it too.