SLIP TEST - Audi S3 Quattro Haldex vs Audi S6 Quattro Torsen -

[@dawidsobierski2422]

Guy's please don't writte yours stupid comments that this s6 torsen is broke... Check other clips eg: s6 c5 on other channel... and is doing the same as this s6 c4. Torsen is not that good as everyone thinks. In both clips haldex beats torsen In s6 c5 and c4.

[@svein-haraldribland8559]

Dawid Sobierski Everyone knows the Quattro is better than the FWD anyway, so please yourself 🐖

[@dawidsobierski2422]

@@svein-haraldribland8559 please learn how to read with understanding :)

[@ivanknjezevic4840]

it's not that it's bad, it's just not made specifically for going offroad and for getting unstuck from mud or snow. also, it's much older system than the haldex and for driving on snowy and icy roads, even the old torsen based quattro is much better than any fwd or rwd. mechanical simplicity is only thing that is better than haldex in this instance. better comparison would be newer audi with torsen quattro and ESP Package (specifically,part of that package called EBD - Electronic Brakeforce Distribution), just like this S3 which can lock the brakes on wheels without traction and force the wheels with traction to rotate, hence getting unstuck from basically anything. cheers.

[@dawidsobierski2422]

@@ivanknjezevic4840 there is new clip my s3 vs a5 2014 it has new torsen.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@dbbd9890 I replied you in other comment about torsen and its open diff behaviour.

[@kossi2607]

Would be interesting seeing this test with two new models

[@An.Individual]

I agree. It would be interesting to see if a modern cars Torque Vectoring or EDL improve things. I think they would.

[@bezmozek3723]

Both would do the same on these rollers.

[@LeitoAE]

I fell off the road in winter 2 years ago and if i wouldn't have a4 b5 quattro i would have never get out of there without help. Also when it is slippy i can start from the lights like it's sunny summer day. And it is also a lot of fun on the snow. 😜 But yes - for 95% of time it is only increasing my fuel consumption. XD Torsen is not the best, but for me it is better than those first haldex generations, that you newer know if it is about to turn on or not.

[@nikolar8687]

On A6, torsen is perfect, but there is a problem with "Electronic Differential Lock (EDL)". That should be 4th quattro generation. Electronic Differential Lock (EDL) which detects wheelspin via ABS road wheel speed sensors, and applies brakes to one spinning wheel, thus transferring torque via open differential to the opposite wheel which has more traction). EDL works at speeds up to 80 km/h (50 mph) on all quattro models (from wiki) I had that A6 2.5 tdi , simply the beast everywhere. I have never had such problems on ice. If one ABS sensor fail, or if there is ABS light is on, EDL will also fail.

[@Blazs120gl]

Well said sir. The EDS/EDL also becomes ineffective if the ABS or the brake system can't build up the brake pressure on the spinning wheel, for one reason or another. Since the power on the gripping wheels can only be so much as the braking power on the spinning wheels, torsen traction on ice with open diffs depend heavily on the brakes. Such older Audis love to develop seized rear brake calipers and old ABS pressure cubes also see degraded return pumps, the component that also provides the brake pressure for EDL. These issues are often not detected by older ABS ECUs and it won't be noticed during normal driving conditions.

[@TheCompyshop]

It’s pretty obvious nobody here understands the fact that prior to torque vectoring Torsen Quattro systems introduced in 2009, Torsen Quattro had all open differentials. Meaning it would get stuck without resistance. You can work around this by pumping the brakes while hitting the gas to give it resistance to have it pull yourself out

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Torsen Quattro system was introduced in 1987.

[@TheDemi847]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers I think he means Torque Vectoring came out in 2009

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@TheDemi847 I have no idea. All open diffs ended in 1987. Torque vectoring was an option (rear sport differential) since 2010. Only Audi V8 from late 80's had kind of torque vectoring - torsen at rear axle.

[@TheDemi847]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers m.awdwiki.com/en/quattro+evolutions/

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@TheDemi847 What about it?

[@MrChavis84]

The underrated Haldex

[@m80116]

I acknowledge: if you were doing the Col de Turini rally with snow, in a race, the Torsen would be much more effective but, to be brutally honest for road use it was disappointing: just when you needed it the most... to get out of the ice patch, the stupid car let you down. In fairness back then cars still didn't have the technology fitted to auto-apply the brakes, so torque splitting with brakes wasn't an option.

[@michaelschneider-]

+1. Owned a 1996 Audi UrS6 Avant as my daily driver car for 10 years or so. The UrS6 Avant was the ultimate ski wagon. A four-set of Michelin winter snow tires - will travel. The Uber ski Avant.

[@QKW-vq2xs]

Ładnie sobie radzi stary Haldex.

[@puchatykubus7055]

Wlasnie sobie nie poradzil

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@puchatykubus7055 Gdzie sobie nie poradził?

[@b_mb4948]

Would be interesting to see something like the Quaife ATB paired up against one of the preloaded Torsen differentials from Wavetrac.

[@kastet93]

Wow, it was unexpected! Always thought that old torsen was better then haldex

[@135maniek]

That torsen doesnt work well as u can see, no rear wheel spins with two front wheels on rollers

[@HQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQ]

It's driven to death so it's not working properly.

[@Devilacme]

The torsen here acts like an open diff because there is no resistance on the rollers. In real life situation there is always some resistance to make torsen work as intended.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@Devilacme "Some" is quite often not enough, especially for torsen with low TBR.

[@xsduprwd3937]

S4 with the diff lock would have won!

[@albatros3875]

Oglądając film i czytając komentarze uświadomiłem sobie jak mało wiem o napedach 4x4 ;) Pozdrawiam

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Czytać, pytać i wszystko będzie jasne 🙂 Pozdrawiamy!

[@SM4rk]

OTTIMO VIDEO, molto esaustivo!

[@Ma77riK]

Where are the locking torsen models? Like the old Audi 80s, coupes, and s4s

[@marquistraylor1255]

Interesting, I was thinking how this could be, but the. I remembered that Torsen is practically 2 open diffs linked with an open diff. My question now is where would the best place for a limited slip device be in a mechanical setup like this? Great video!

[@HQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQ]

Google for torsen generations - you'll see some interesting information! And yes, S6 has some mechanical problems. It would go with Torsen easily.

[@SaturnV69]

I had a 90 Audi V8 Quattro and a 91 V8 Quattro with a 5 speed manual which both had a Torsen rear differential and they took me through some serious snow storms. The 5 speed manual version had a Torsen "center diff" and a Torsen "rear diff" which apportioned torque 80:20 left & right which means if one rear tire is on a high traction surface the car would be able to move. I believe this Audi S6 had a mechanical issue with its Quattro drive system.

[@quattno1506]

Steve G torsen is only for the center diff, the rear diff is a manual Differential, pretty sure it was vacuum operated on the V8s.

[@quattno1506]

Steve G or do you mean a limited slip diff????

[@SaturnV69]

@@quattno1506 , the way I interpet the Audi owners manual is that the Torsen rear "diff" is mechanically operated, and will automatically send torque to the wheel with the most traction. I had an Audi 5000 Turbo Quattro from 1986 which had "vacuum" operated center and rear "diff" which were actuated via console mounted rotary switch or "push-pull" knobs depending which model year you had. The "push -pull" knobs were first generation. Later in the 90's Audi incorporated a rear "diff" lock switch on the center console which automatically unlocked after 25 m.p.h. Going back to my 1990 V8 Quattro the automatic transmission version utilizes a multi-plate clutch which apportions 50:50 front to rear dependant on traction which if need be, the Center Torsen "diff" can apportion 80:20 or 20:80 between the front and rear axles. The Torsen "diff" are Type One which are Torque Sensing differential and are not open differential.

[@MOTORBGUY]

Did the ABS System had any issues at the time it was tested?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Hard to say. Ten years younger car did not much different: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKvJaoKDnJ2joJo

[@kierenhawksworth4480]

This happens on an ‘open’ torsen, they only lock up when all wheels still have resistance, like in mud. Other/Newer versions have limited slip clutch packs which prevent this. Much newer cars will apply the brakes using the abs system to ensure some resistance remains, allowing the torsen to lock up.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

The ones here already use brakes.

[@WandalzSWD]

Czesć, świetne filmiki, mam takie pytanie czy jest możliwość modyfikacji software haldex 1 gen? tak by wykluczyć impulsowe przekazywanie mocy na tył?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Cześć, dzięki. Co do modyfikacji haldexa to nie znam się na tym, ale pamiętam, że do 1 gen były takie kontrolery jak Touch Motion Controller czy Blue Controller: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f4ClqZuOba2eo9E

[@Haldexify]

Tez sa kwinty zwiekszajace cisnienie. Za okolo 50zl na allegro. Wpisz «haldex» na allegro i szukaj. Autko lata pieknie zima (bokiem).

[@WandalzSWD]

@@Haldexify a jak to wpływa na żywotność pompki oraz silniczka krokowego w sterowniku? To jest ten powertrack? są filmiki z s3 na ytb z działania tego urządzonka

[@Haldexify]

WandalzSWD pompka chodzi caly czas z powerrtrackiem wiec napewno krotsza zywotnosc. Pytanie czy potrzebujesz 50/50 nonstop tak jak daje powertrack. Mi octavia z haldex 1gen swietnie bokiem chodzi oryginalnie

[@roskataqv]

Tell me again haldex is "not a real quattro" ??!?!?!

[@Clutchdjw]

You basically said it. Haldex is haldex. Quattro was a design name given to a torsen style version where the s3 "quattro" is haldex. But i see where you're coming from and agree it seems quite a superior AWD/4WD system by todays standards

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@Clutchdjw Actually Quattro name was given in 1980. Torsen appeared in Quattro in 1987.

[@Stephano95]

It would be interesting to see what the same generation car is like on the rollers. A3/S3 from the vid with Haldex diff vs. A6/S6 C5 with Torsen diff.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Maybe next weekend we will test A6 C5 & S6 C5. All up tp weather.

[@Clutchdjw]

Would i be right in saying this comparison is unfair as the original s6 has 3 open diffs where the s3 has 2 LSD's and a transfer box?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

No, it wouldn't be right. S6 has two open diffs (front/rear) and torsen at center. S3 has also two open diffs (front/rear) and no center diff but haldex 1 clutch-pack.

[@Clutchdjw]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers i stand corrected 😁 thanks for the info

[@kylepasta]

Haldex was specifically designed for rollers test and to be unstuck. Torsen was built in the tally days to drift

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

You mean rally days?

[@eligaller9190]

You can't spin the eg. front axle freely without sending torque to the rear axle when there is a torsen diff in the middle. The faster the gears (they are more like conveyors than ordinary gears) rotate inside the diff the more resistance they build up (limited slip diff). If i remember correctly there is a package of discs between the axles that is being pressed together the higher the rotation speed difference between the axles gets. Considering the age of the car i guess those discs are worn out. A car equipped with torsen is permanent all wheel drive (symmetrical torque split between front and rear axle), it's heavier, you can not turn it off and it needs more gas. A haldex quattro behaves like a FWD until the front axle looses grip and the computer closes the haldex clutch. p.s. I assume the a6 has a torsen in the middle and open diffs in the front and rear but i'm not an engineer, just an technology enthusiast, so feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

When there is no resistance (low grip) torsen will act like an open diff. "Locking" level is determined by TBR. Torsen A or B are symmetrical, C is not. When it comes to haldex - new generations do not need to lose grip to engage. They are doing that in proactive way.

[@J.Isosomppi]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers When torsen started work like that? I have seen many torsen cars on roll and no one acts like this A6. eli galler is right about how torsen and haldex works. test broken haldex car next and look how it works...

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@J.Isosomppi It works like that since it was born. It comes directly from its design. Torsen needs help from electronics to overcome this disadvantage. There are tons of information about it. Here are examples from my tests: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jGTLk3Z9gauGfNU kzbin.info/www/bejne/oGSWqICQhJutf5I

[@yasarramzan8016]

The a6 is not right. Defos something up with 4wd system

[@achilleaustin]

Its fine, the Torsten system needs at least a bit of resistance otherwise it acts like an open diff. Even with automated locking it still struggles a lot

U guys sure about that A6 is a quattro S6? Torsen sends %60 to the rear wheels and %40 to the front wheels as default, that S6 couldn't even spin its rear tyres at 02:08

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Torsen needs resistance, otherwise it acts like an open diff.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers yes but apperantly this old generation had some issues, other torsen quattro models on your channel passed those test easily :) This one is the only one I ever seen to fail this test.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@ Other torsen Quattro passed cause they do have front/rear backup from brake system. This one doesn't.

[@An.Individual]

It is true that Torsen is like an open diff if one wheel has zero traction. Audi fixed this with EDL (Electronic Differential Lock) which is braking individually any wheels that lose grip. Not sure why that is not happening here?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@An.Individual True. When it comes to EDL - at the begining it was working only righ/left, not front/rear.

[@blase1101]

Co robicie gdy auto samo nie może wyjechać? Wypychacie ręcznie?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Odpowiedź znajdziesz tutaj: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIfOqo2AodSrars

[@AUDIQUATTRO96RUS]

Давай Audi A4 B5 👍🙏🤝

[@socialghost4400]

So the Torsten system just acts as an all open differential system

[@Devilacme]

Yes when there is basically no resistance. In real life situation there is some resistance so torsen works as it is intended.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@Devilacme "Some" is quite often not enough, especially for torsen with low TBR.

[@cinekwpodrozy]

Jak sprawdzić poprawność działania napędów w VW Sharan z 2001 roku 2,8v6 ? Przymierzam się do kupna

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Tam będzie haldex pierwszej generacji, jeśli warunki pozwalają, to na śniegu gaz do dechy i obserwować, czy się tylna oś załącza. Warto też skręcić maksymalnie koła, pojeździć w kółko po asfalcie, nie powinno być żadnych oporów.

[@artu2d2]

Miałem A6 C4 Quattro Sport i jakoś nie umiem uwierzyć w to co tutaj widze. Ciekawostka🤔

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Widocznie nie zdarzyła Ci się taka sytuacja 🙂

[@v12mercedes-benz72]

C4 s4 s6 quattro system is no ability to those things , good handling on mountain road and country road, but nothing about offroad. I had 2c4 s6 2.2t 5 cylinder, manual and auto. Seems only got open differential front back and center.

[@MasterfarKZ]

Хорошо у меня diff lock есть, так что более ранняя версия кваки роляет 😏👍

[@Олег1111-я4е]

Технически не исправный автомобиль - А6 (не работает межосевой самоблок ,если там не принудительный) ! Поэтому она не едет.

[@MasterfarKZ]

@@Олег1111-я4е так тут S6 а не А6, КПП 01Е, чтобы выехать с такой ситуации, надо нажимать тормоз и газовать, так она блокируется 😉

[@Taganskii]

@@Олег1111-я4е ТОРСЕН НЕ МОЖЕТ НЕ РАБОТАТЬ, тут его просто нет, тут обычный свободный диф. видос фигня, в заблуждение вводит тех кто не шарит

[@davewalkerden]

What did we learn today kids? Don't buy an Audi from last century. Torsen is perfect with modern independent brake force distribution.

[@robsson7516]

Czy audi A6 C4 miało blokadę tylnego dyferencjału i czy to była wersja z automatyczną skrzynią biegów? Bo na taką wersję mi to auto wygląda.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Skrzynia manualna, rocznik 1996, czyli już bez blokady tylnego dyfra.

[@robsson7516]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers To nie dziwię się, że miał problem z wyjazdem z rolek.Jeszcze w tym roczniku wychodziły wersje z blokadą mostu,ale była nie pneumatyczne sterowana tylko elektrycznie.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@robsson7516 To była już wersja z pierwszą generacją EDL. A blokada tylnego dyfra pomogła by tylko w jednym teście.

[@robsson7516]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers audi 200 2.2 turbo miało pneumatyczna blokadę i nie miałem nigdy problemu z wyjazdem z ciężkiego terenu. A6 C4 przednią ośkę mam i zabawa się kończy jak zaczyna być ślisko.ASR trzeba wyłączyć ,aby normalnie ruszyć.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@robsson7516 A6 C6 Quattro też wymaga wyłączenia ASR żeby wygrzebać się z opresji: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oGSWqICQhJutf5I

[@mladengsi2]

All torsen quattros after 94 have EDL(electronic diff lock) which in this video doesn't work on the older Audi. If EDL is working as expected, when the front wheels are spinning, EDL will put the brakes on the spinning wheels and the rest wheels will run, which will move the car. Same as if any of the wheels is spinning EDL will use brakes to stop it and the differentials will do the work.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

EDL works, otherwise car would fail diagonal and lateral tests. Some sources say that first generation of EDL replaced rear diff locker - so it was only on rear axle.

[@mladengsi2]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers If you are 100% sure in the EDL, the solution is that the centre torsen diff is weared. There are 4 main pieces in it, which in the time are wearing and the differential is not able to pass the torque to the rears, as per the video. Thank you for your kind reply! :-)

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@mladengsi2 I am not sure, but that make sense if you analyse the results. When it comes to torsen - that's how it works when there is low grip on one side, that's not a failure.

[@Xayanix]

Piotrków :) I tak nieźle jak na stary haldex.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Zgadza się, obydwa punkty 🙂

[@Xayanix]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers jak chcecie mogę udostępnić S3 8p poliftowe z haldexem 4gen do testow, też Piotrkow

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@Xayanix Szkoda, że wcześniej nie wiedziałem, ale będę pamiętał przy następnej okazji 🙂 Na co dzień zapraszamy do Rzeszowa 🙂 A 09.11. 2019 Kraków

[@kamilbuszmann4973]

Czym są spowodowane dziwne dźwięki w S3 gdy zjeżdża z rolek ?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

To nie S3, to rolki 🙂

[@kamilbuszmann4973]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers dzięki za info 😎

[@samsunh2]

Nie jestem mechanikiem ale z tego co wiem to torsen jest mechanizmem różnicowym między osiowym więc powinien przekazywać moment obrotowy na oś która ma przyczepność , to S6 powinna wyjechać bez problemu mając zamontowane rolki na przedniej osi

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Torsen przekazuje na oś o lepszej przyczepności wielokrotność (zależną od TBR) momentu osi o gorszej przyczepności. Jeśli na tej drugiej masz zero lub jakąś niską wartość, to na oś z przeczepnością trafi bardzo niewiele...

[@michalruzyk5346]

Ewidentnie widać że w s6 nie działa eds. Nie przyhamowuje kół które nie mają przyczepności

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@michalruzyk5346 To jakim cudem bez problemów poradził sobie z testem po przekątnej i po jedne stronie...?

[@michalruzyk5346]

Bo przyczepność była na obu osiach. Przy sprawnym systemie eds możesz mieć przyczepność tylko na 1 kole i samochód ruszy, ponieważ eds zahamuje te 3 koła które nie mają przyczepności

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@michalruzyk5346 Przyczepność była na jednym kole każdej osi. A osie mają otwarte mechanizmy różnicowe. Zatem EDS musiał działać.

[@emjot805]

Haldex górą!!! I teraz słyszę trzask pękających dup obrońców jedynego prawilnego napędu ze to na pewno manipulacja etc... a fakty są takie że haldex dziala i to lepiej niż stary torsen

[@wudi9208]

He doesnt affraid that avant could smash The „wall” if it Gets a grip🥺

[@jakuzjelcza]

To A6 ma rozwalone tuleje na przednim wahaczu:-)

[@sergeyandrone6233]

Audi s6: the abs-eds system is not working !!!!!

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Of course it is, otherwise it would fail lateral and diagonal tests.

[@RadostinVelchev]

On one of the tests on 2nd gear you can actually see it working

[@ukaszgorski6269]

Niech zrobią test uciągu ciężarówki haldex na pewno się rozłączy z przeciążenia albo coś się zmieli. Pozatym wspomnę że bez ESP podsystem ASR dalej działa w a3 natomiast A6 miała tylko edl kumaci zrozumieją

[@musztardowytygrys3230]

Z tym w torsenem w Audi A6 jest chyba coś nie tak. Zdziwiony jestem bo haldex sobie lepiej poradzil

[@adamjanisiak3119]

Wszystko jest ok, po prostu Torsen tak działa i bez elektronicznych wspomagaczy (np: EDL), gdy jedna oś nie ma przyczepności, druga praktycznie nie reaguje. Mam A4B5 z Torsenem 2gen. i EDL model z 2001r, więc u mnie działa trochę lepiej. 😉

[@bartek0068]

Haldeks działa lepiej ale nie w prawdziwych warunkach😉

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@bartek0068 Czwarta, a w szczególności piąta generacja to już bardzo sprawne napędy.

[@rolo2057]

Tosen jest zestrojony na przód i czysta mechanika.

[@elbombel8095]

@@adamjanisiak3119 W A4 B7 (2006r) jest tak samo Torsen 2gen jak u ciebie czy jest jeszcze ulepszony torsen ?

[@bartlomiejnawara1259]

Z niecierpliwością czekam na test A4 B7 quattro 🙂 Chętnie udostępnienie w Krakowie. Pozdrawiam

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Będziemy w Krakowie 09.11.2019, zapraszam :)

[@bartlomiejnawara1259]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Jak to sie odbywa? Gdzie? Ile czasu? Itd. 🙂

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@bartlomiejnawara1259 Spotykamy się na jakimś parkingu, wyjmujemy rolki z bagażnika, ustawiamy kamery i zabawa się zaczyna 🙂 Średnio potrzeba jakieś 20 minut na jeden samochód.

[@bartlomiejnawara1259]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers ok W kontakcie w takim razie godzinę ustalimy bliżej weekendu Pozdrawiam

[@bartlomiejnawara1259]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Tak w ogóle to jaki według Ciebie będzie wynik testu dla A4 B7? Z czym powinno sobie poradzić, a z czym nie?

[@Pizzaschnitzer]

on freerunning 3 differentials it is essential to hit the brake on slip in standing.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

We check if car has abillity to do that by itself.

[@NsrRacerLh]

Dont know why this comparisson ("bad" quattro system) with other AWDs or better, "four-wheel-drive" systems has to be shown over and over again. If the guy wants(!) to let the S6 out of the rollers (without manual locked middle diff. as in the video), it is possible, for sure. You cant compare this with a situation on ice because the traction does not really vary on the rollers. In this specific situation the haldex is definitely more better than the common "Audi quattro" because the haldex has no open middle differential (the old quattro if the diff. is locked, also not), rather a rigid power transmission to the rear axle if the haldex is in progress, the rest is done by the EDS, this maybe works probably faster or more intensive than by the S6 C4, probably... You can use a trick at the old "Torsen quattro", if the wheels are spinning like in this specific situation with the rollers or for example on ice and further more situations kind of this, you have to give out of the state(!) with good clutch control or with slow turning tires full throttle for a short moment till its still moving foward, maybe even with little jumping clutch if full throttle only does not work finally, thereby you uses the "slow moment" of the Torsen and thus you can give more torque (most possible) to the axle which has the most traction at this moment, maybe it will be sufficient enough to pull you out of the situation. Not the best for the mechanical units but in such situation it will move the car out. Finally in my opinion the haldex is a very good four-wheel-drive system and it brings a lot of additional traction to a FWD car if needed, in some situations maybe better than quattro, the common quattro is indeed a completely different kind of driving because you have four-wheel drive the hole time and thats what makes a Audi quattro feel like "Audi quattro", it is a not compareable feeling of driving, also on asphalt without any slippery underground. Apart of the driving safety, where a permanent AWD system is definitely superior, the best powertrain is all four tires complete locked against each other which is possible at Mercedes "G" from factory.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

This test is not about doing tricks by the driver, but about ability of doing tricks by the car it self. And of course it can be compared to ice, torsen and open diffs systems can get stuck even when just one wheel has no grip.

[@NsrRacerLh]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers I know, but if you know these "tricks" they can be helpful in some situations. If you would lock the center diff. at the S6 it would drive maybe in the same way as the S3 with haldex, as I said: The haldex system uses no center diff and thereby the front and rear axle has a rigid connection, this could be reproduced with locking the center diff. at the S6 (which is possible) and than it will also run out of the rollers. By the way, the rollers are more "icy" than ice because you have absolutely no traction, on ice you have traction. And further more, the axle/whell which stands on the ground (asphalt) has the "maximum" amount of traction and the traction difference is much more than on ice in addition the car is "fixed" between the rollers and can not move out as easy as on ice in even underground. I know that a common quattro can get stuck if one wheel only is on ice but thats theoretically and in badest reality conditions, I never got stuck on ice with a newer quattro without(!) lockable center diff., the EDS regulates all the rest.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@NsrRacerLh Front and rear axle has a rigid connection only when there's a maximum pressure on haldex. When it comes to ice - there are also different types. Black ice on slight hill and you got the same situation as on rollers. Geting stuck if only one wheel has no traction ain't theoretical, there are quite a lot of videos showing such situation. EDL was also evolving through the years.

[@NsrRacerLh]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers As far as I know, haldex knows only two positions, "ON" and "OFF" and if the rear axle is driven (Haldex working/ON), the pressure is right away at its highest point-rigid connection as haldex works/the rear axle is driven. Can say, as long as four-wheel- drive is working on haldex system, you have ridgid connection between front and rear as far. Thats right, EDL (EDS) has evolved over the years think also, but the S3 8L and the S6 C4 could probably have nearly the same EDS systems or functionality, try the S6 with locked center diff. it will be the same as with the S3, maybe^^. On "black ice" with one wheel on ice, EDL (EDS) shut handle it but cant generalize, it is principle only for safety and not an offroad 4x4.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@NsrRacerLh Not correct. Haldex works from fully open to fully locked, full range, not only two stages. That's how all of such systems work. This particular S6 didn't have any lockers, just EDL.

[@kolhosniki]

This torsen is work. when torsen is broken - audi won't go. will just stand still. but why does the edl not work?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

It works, you can see all wheels spinning. That's what torsen is when there is low traction on one side. EDL also works, otherwise car would fail diagonal and lateral tests. It is visible in 3:55

[@kolhosniki]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers i install quattro on my audi 100. Then install edl. But nothing has changed when driving)))

[@gl2005z]

Haldex the Best)

[@jorgubb275]

Didn't the old audi 100 have a locker in the center consol?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Up to 1994.

[@jorgubb275]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Ah, thanks for the answer. It's a shame they removed it.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@jorgubb275 Lockers ain't too good for onroad cars. Good electronics are much better for that 🙂

[@mladengsi2]

After 1994 Torsen quattro didn't have locker, but have EDL(electronic diff lock) which in this video doesn't work on the older Audi. If EDL is working as expected, when the front wheels are spinning EDL will put the brakes on the spinning wheels and the rest wheels will run, which will move the car.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@mladengsi2 EDL works, otherwise car would fail diagonal and lateral tests. Some sources say that first generation of EDL replaced rear diff locker - so it was only on rear axle.

[@Arnie551972]

HALDEX w praktyce to napęd 2+2. Dowód: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f17blnWIosaMesk W moim Audi Q5 zrobiłem na nowych oponach 60tyś km i zużycie bieżnika na obu osiach jest identyczne, bowiem obie osie są zawsze spięte i permanentnie napędzane, co z natury rzeczy nie występuje przy napędzie HALDEX. W praktyce auto z haldexem w 90% jeździ z napędem na przednią oś, dołączając tylną w sporadycznych przypadkach...

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Nie bardzo rozumiem, na co dowodem jest to, że zapiszczała opona ;) Co do haldexa - nie można uogólniać, wszystko zależy od software'u, który jest różny dla różnych marek, modeli itp.

[@Arnie551972]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Ano na to, że to jest napęd 2+2. Permanentnie ciągnie przód, a tył dołącza się w momencie uślizgu przednich kół. AMEN.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@Arnie551972 Wyciągasz takie wnioski na podstawie jakiegoś pisku trwającego ułamek sekundy, nawet nie widząc sytuacji na zewnątrz auta?

[@Arnie551972]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Nie tylko. Mercedes CLS 3.0 4matic przy wyjeżdżaniu z grząskiego pobocza- koła skręcone w lewo i najpierw lekko buksuje tył, by zaraz potem dopiął się przód i wyjechał... A ty na jakiej podstawie fiksujesz się na ten haldex? Na podstawie tych śmiesznych rolek? :D:D

[@Arnie551972]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Już nie wspomnę ruszania XC90 do dechy w lekkim skręcie na skrzyżowaniu... :D:D

[@iNf3rNuSdI4bLuS1]

What happened to the a6/s6 rear LSD dif?? Also the central torsen lock not right either. When car had rollers on front axle

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

There is no rear lsd in S6. And torsen can't lock, that's how it works.

[@iNf3rNuSdI4bLuS1]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers thought that generation of s6 came with some sort of rear diff lock. So we've been lied about Torsens and their torq split and auto lock up to certain % percentage front and back all this time? Lol

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@iNf3rNuSdI4bLuS1 There was rear diff lock in Quattro up to 1994, later on replaced by EDL. Auto lock of torsen is not a lie, but it works only up to its TBR. Here it is exceeded a lot.

[@RadostinVelchev]

There is something wrong with the torsen on the S6, when I come of the rollers on the MOT mine goes with almost no wheel spin.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

No, that's how torsen works. And if you mean MOT rollers for brakes - they are not not free spinning.

[@RadostinVelchev]

On some brake testers they are so worn that I have a lot of trouble getting out with a front wheel drive car 😁

[@adamwojciechowski4607]

Ciekaw jestem ile da w s3 insert do haldexa ten sportowy. Jest tani ale działa. Tzn zamontowalem u kolegi w jego 450 konnym s3 wcześniej przód ciągle gubil trakcje po montażu mega dobrze przyspiesza prawie bez uslozgu.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Pytanie jak skręca...

[@adamwojciechowski4607]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers dobrze skręca. Ten insert zwiększa ciśnienie w haldexie i napęd na 4 jest odrazu nie ma tego opuznienia poprostu. Przecież dyfry są oryginalne

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@adamwojciechowski4607 Nie chodzi o dyfry. Każdy układ tego typu nie może spinać zbyt mocno w zakrętach. Ani zbyt słabo. To musi być skorelowane z kątem skrętu kierownicy żeby działało sprawnie. Może jest - tego nie wiem.

[@adamwojciechowski4607]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers szczerze powiem że auto jest bardziej przewidywalne bo napęd jest stały 4x4 a nie dołączany tył w nnirwiadomym momencie bo jak dołącza tył to autko pluzy przodem a jak jest stały to pięknie skręca szczególnie na śniegu

[@adamwojciechowski4607]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers allegro.pl/oferta/sportowy-insert-quattro-haldex-audi-vw-seat-skoda-6618312431?

[@BaJT8417]

Wow

[@acchr3646]

This dude is an audi hater I don't care what he says ...I've seen plenty videos of multiple audis beating these tests left and right even freaky harder ones..u can even ask audi theyll be happy to show you and explain to you what you did wrong in the video boy..the whole industry disagrees with you including bmw.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Are you talking to me? What Audi hater? Can't you see that S3 passed all tests? I believe that you saw many videos with Audi beating these tests - they are on my channel.

[@acchr3646]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers your channel? 🤣🤣🤣

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@acchr3646 Yeap, a lot of Audi cars passed all the tests without any problems. What's your problem?

[@acchr3646]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers all audis passed the test and no not your channel lol

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@acchr3646 kzbin.info/aero/PL_d2bK7PR7yxEPh44cSr0T-ptQ1lyaafX

[@xklient4175]

Torsen 1993 vs haldex 2003...

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

?

[@xklient4175]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Po co znak zapytania? Nie wiesz o co chodzi? Roznica w wieku tych aut moze wynosic okolo 10 lat. Torsen i haldex to mechanizmy, ich zasada działania przez te lata sie nie zmieniła, ale mogą być wspomagane roznego rodzaju czujnikami, systemami itp itd, a to i stopien zaawansowania roznego rodzaju elektroniki w autach przez 10 lat sie zmieniło i to bardzo. Tyle w temacie.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@xklient4175 Na wstępie filmu są podane daty produkcji samochodów. 2000 i 1996. Czyli torsen T1 i haldex 1.

[@xklient4175]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Nie czytalem opisu, jezeli tak jest uwazam ze w s6 naped nie jest sprawny w 100%. Torsen z zasady jest mechanizme sprawniejszym niz haldex, moge sie mylic i caly swiat do tej pory żył w niewiedzy, ale nie sądze. Po za tym to co pisałemm, niezaleznie od generacji napędu wspomagacze typu ESP itd mogą znajdowac sie w tym S3, w starym S6 z pewnoscia ich nie ma. Pozdrawiam.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@xklient4175 Stare S6 ma wspomagacz elektroniczny w postaci EDL. Torsen ogólnie jest dużo bardziej sprawny niż stare generacje haldexa, ale są sytuacje, w których wypada gorzej np. brak przyczepności jednej osi.

[@wagnerxxi]

S3 8L ❤️

[@hrtbrk1]

Id be sad to have an awd car where the awd doesnt drive all the wheels and gets me stuck. Can i do a full locking diff swap 😆😅

[@Zsword92]

Stalled it 4:52

[@cleti4786]

Boo hoo

[@alfeigo]

Why not 1896?)

[@Alexdj44]

Уголь нынче не везде достанешь!

[@zbyszek9202]

przecież w torsenie gdy przednia oś sie ślizga to tył powinien zadziałać i odwrotnie

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Pod warunkiem, że jedna z tych osi ma jakąś przyczepność.

[@zbyszek9202]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers no tylna jest na asfalcie to chyba ma

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@zbyszek9202 Nieprecyzyjnie się wyraziłem. Oś która się ślizga musi mieć jakąś przyczepność (opór). Jeśli nie ma, to torsen działa jak otwarty dyfer.

[@zbyszek9202]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers mam a6 c5 2.8 quattro ale na rolkach nie sprawdzałem, jedynie na badaniach technicznych jak hamulce sprawdzają to faktycznie nie jedzie ale to z powodu małej prędkości, korekta, na badaniach to rolki sie kręcą powoli przecież, głupotę wyżej napisałem

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@zbyszek9202 Rolki na badaniu technicznym kręcą kołami, a nie koła rolkami. To nie są rolki wolnobieżne. Jeśli chcesz sprawdzić c5 w takim teście, to zapraszam :)

[@czarnykurczak]

Czyli quattro to marketingowy badziew? Wystarczy, że przednimi kołami wjadę w śnieg i już muszę szukać chłopa z traktorem?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Nie, aż tak to nie. Może się zdarzyć w przypadku lodu, ale to tylko w starszych modelach bez edl.

[@czarnykurczak]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers mam passata b5fl z 4motion czyli niby to jest quattro, bo ten passat to a6c5 tylko z innym znaczkiem. Wtopiłem?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@czarnykurczak Ani trochę, to świetny napęd na torsenie, tym bardziej jeśli ma ASR/ESP. Zapraszam na test :)

[@czarnykurczak]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers kawałek do Was mam. Może w wakacje jak się skończy to całe wirusowe szaleństwo to się wybiorę.

[@FrankJohn]

Torque board to the front. Haldex>Torsen

[@grzegorzponka9001]

1:51 hehe audi

[@dawidwyborowy]

Ciekawe jakby wyszło porównanie Torsenów z C4, ale z A100 (blokada dyfra) i A6...

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Te generacje miały blokadę tylnego dyfra z tego co pamiętam. Jeśli znajdzie się ochotnik, to sprawdzimy :)

[@dawidwyborowy]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers a skąd jesteś?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@dawidwyborowy Rzeszów, ale bywamy w różnych częściach kraju. 09.11.2019 będziemy w Krakowie.

[@gabrys187]

Blokada dyfra pomogłaby na rolkach ustawionych po jednej z tyłu i z przodu bądź 1 z tyłu i 2 z przodu

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@gabrys187 Przy jednej z tyłu i dwóch z przodu prawdopodobnie będą kręcić się tylko przednie koła, choć jest szansa, zwiększony moment obrotowy wypchnie auto do przodu.

[@dawid8826]

Haldex better

[@nadzorymb]

A patrola teraz?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Jeśli układ w pełni mechaniczny z blokadami, to wynik z góry znany 🙂

[@pawe3130]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers A outlander 1 generacji ?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@pawe3130 Outlander 1 nie ma żadnej elektroniki, więc w zasadzie można tylko przetestować czy centralny lsd dobrze skleja :)

[@KleryK79]

ha ha showing old crappy cars. my S5 with torsen would eat haldex for breakfast

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Zapraszam na test.

[@ezefigu]

Old gen has nothing to do with new ones. Totally pointless.. those models are scrap

[@АлександрАлександр-и1е3х]

Какой бред, на личном опыте знаю что с одним колесом трогался и без проблем, а тут автор точно любит Вольво!!

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Yes, I am sure you did. And by the way - what Volvo? I can't see any here.

[@pablo36901]

hahaha this a6 have broke torsen xD and you can see the car in it's condition xDD

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

How do you know that it is broken?

[@elzrinja365]

You are right look this Audi 80 kzbin.info/www/bejne/fH6bnIhvZdCpjNE

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@elzrinja365 Audi 80 has different torsen (higher TBR). Besides I would say that something is broken not in S6 but in 80. Or maybe not broken but rather used (like bearings creating a lot of resistance). There are tens of videos showing the same behaviour of torsen as in my video. That's just how it works when grip difference exceeds TBR.

[@elzrinja365]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Why C6 A6 can move foward when 2 wheels from one axle are on rollers but this S6 cant?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@elzrinja365 Different generations of EDL.

[@krystiankrychu2507]

Audi S3 with diesel??? I don't think is S3 just A3 1.9tdi

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

S3 1.8T

[@135maniek]

Not only diesels have turbos

[@dawidsobierski2422]

s3 na pełnym przelocie... 310ps :)

[@sky-wz5ir]

@@135maniek you are stupid

[@adri_20vt58]

Krystian Krychu the Audi s3 8l 1.8t make a sound of diesel under 3000rpm

[@LaiLaiSERIA5]

open dif for a6 :))

[@だにゃんこ]

S6やばくね？

[@W201029]

w124 4Matic is banchmark

[@southdakotaslim7419]

Idk why eo hates haldex.

[@xxwiejskixx]

Looks like legendary quattro is overrated.

[@joshuafinch5539]

The A3 sounds broken

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

It is modified to ~310 hp.

[@joshuafinch5539]

2:48 when it is coming off the rollers and stops what is that noise?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@joshuafinch5539 That's a roller spinning.

[@Stephano95]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers did I hear you stall it once??? lol

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@Stephano95 I wasn't a driver, but that could happen, nothing unusual.

[@philippsacher8887]

the diff from the a6 is broken.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Why?

[@davidbergander9439]

duszaniespokojna - 4x4 tests on rollers because the center diff did’t lock, if the diff was lock the back wheels would push the car forwards in the clip where the front wheels was on rollers.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@davidbergander9439 But that's a torsen, it doesn't lock.

[@davidbergander9439]

duszaniespokojna - 4x4 tests on rollers ooh my bad, I mix the system together. Sorry!🥴

[@rafazarembski5602]

Ten torsen w tej A6 jest popsuty. Nie działa prawidłowo. Zreszta widać jaki złom z luzami na przednim kole 😉

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Niby dlaczego nie działa prawidłowo?

[@rafazarembski5602]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers poniewaz widac na tym tescie z rolkami pod przodem ze wcale nie zareagowal naped. On powinien od razu ruszyc jak przednie nabrały predkosci.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@rafazarembski5602 Nic podobnego. W takiej sytuacji torsen działa jak otwarty dyfer.

[@stefanmaozeromski5853]

Kto tu rozumie napęd stały? Hahahaha jak niby S6 nie może zjechać z rolek a tylne ma na asfalcie?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Tak działa mechanizm różnicowy, w tym przypadku torsen.

[@stefanmaozeromski5853]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Ty mi gościu mądra głową nie pokazuj filmików, tylko jakbyś mógł wytłumaczyć czym jest haldex, czym torksen? Ja wiem, ale chciałbym się dowiedzieć co Ty o tym wiesz, a nie filmik ustawiony;)

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@stefanmaozeromski5853 Filmik ustawiony? Ten, czy wszystkie na kanale? Czym jest "torksen" to pojęcia nie mam. Natomiast materiał na temat torsena jest tutaj: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i53ReHpqm9eNbJo

[@stefanmaozeromski5853]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Rozróżnij Haldex od Torsena... podstawy ich działania, czym te napędy się różnią, itp. dopiero możesz uwierzyć w takie filmiki... każdy kto się zna na motoryzacji Ci powie, że Haldex może jest eko., ale nie ma stałego napędu na dwie osie i mechanicznej szpery na koła... Haldexa hamują hamulce, a w Torsenie masz zapięcie mechanicznej szpery (zaspawanej jak w BMW) poprzez układ ślimakowy...

[@stefanmaozeromski5853]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers WGL zacznijmy od tego, że na torsenie masz stały napęd 60/40... Nie realny jest poślizg przodu, a tylne koła nie reagują...

[@elzrinja365]

Audi 80 quattro kzbin.info/www/bejne/fH6bnIhvZdCpjNE

[@michalruzyk5346]

S6 ma zepsuty system EDS

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Gdyby tak było, to nie poradziłby sobie z testem po przekątnej i po jednej stronie.

[@michalruzyk5346]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers 3 koła w powietrzu. Widać jak eds hamuje koła. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jou2pHuVZ5xga6M

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@michalruzyk5346 Samochód na podnośnikach, trzy koła bez obciążenia, nijak się to ma do sił, które w normalnych warunkach działają na samochód. Zapraszam na test i sam się przekonasz.

[@juanjimenezf8227]

Stinger

[@Sepsi991]

Man that old Audi is crap

[@antoniobolgov5164]

Anyway torsen on real life drive cool, and Audi S4/S6 C4 design best, so stfu :)

[@rk26ful]

Áudi s3 wheels?

[@jonheezy]

They are the RSTT wheels. They were an optional extra from factory.

[@dredynapietachweza]

To quattro to jakieś popsute

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Które I dlaczego?

[@dredynapietachweza]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers S6 bo nie umie zjechać z rolek

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@dredynapietachweza Nie umie, bo nie umie, a nie dlatego, że jest zepsute. Torsen i wczesna generacja EDL, nic nadzwyczajnego.

[@dredynapietachweza]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers ciekawe jak by sobie poradził mój Hyundai Santa Fe 2003r 4x4

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@dredynapietachweza Santa Fe pierwszej generacji miał dwa rodzaje AWD. Z jakim silnikiem?

[@henrip4097]

Torsen kaput

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Nope, that's how torsen works.

[@romankratochvil1937]

S6 is failed

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

What exactly?

[@romankratochvil1937]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers because 2:17 S6 have Torsen - rear wheel not turning....

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@romankratochvil1937 It is normal, that's how torsen works.

[@romankratochvil1937]

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers realy?

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@romankratochvil1937 kzbin.info/www/bejne/i53ReHpqm9eNbJo

[@jamocerwin5841]

Torsen broken!

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

Why?

[@jamocerwin5841]

duszaniespokojna - 4x4 tests on rollers. Torsen with sliding on the front wheels and no traction back. It doesn't make sense.

[@4x4.tests.on.rollers]

@@jamocerwin5841 If one side has zero or very low grip then torsen is nothing more than an open diff.

[@polodcs3232]

C'est quoi comme jantes sur la s3 ?

[@matlopes2402]

Jantes d'origine mdrr