Slowing Down the Beto Drill

[@ChrisSolarski]

That's exactly the issue I've been struggling, yanking the disc from the very back and missing the power pocket. Thank you!

[@dethtrip663]

The back swing is "just guiding the disc to the right place" these videos are showing me I'm doing everything wrong. Lol

[@j_merlotte5467]

I just recently finally understood this concept... and I've watched this video and your other videos several times over the past year. One day while doing fieldwork I made my arm very loose in the reachback (think stretchy)... and then I remembered Danny Lindahl talking about bringing the disc to your chest. Miraculously I finally FELT the power pocket build and then unwind. It's something you really have to feel to get it. I think most videos and pros don't really talk bringing the disc to your chest with proper hip and shoulder rotation, because it's so natural at this point. But now that I've felt it, when I slow down videos of their throws, they're definitely doing it. There's way too much focus on big reach backs, which teaches a very bad habit of just slinging your arm all the way through, missing this pocket, and your elbow folding down early. THe real power is the uncorking of your hips, shoulders, and that hinge point... followed by the disc literally shooting out of your hand like a cannon. Awesome video which is hard to understand for some reason until you finally just happen to feel it.

[@jamalydude]

Dude I’ve been trying to “feel” the power pocket for literally months of field work and nothing yet. Do you have a way I could contact you to help me out? Because everything you’re laying down is resonating with me

[@rjmetzger7885]

@@jamalydude hey man, I know your comment is a year old. But I felt it by exagerrating the movement to my left pec, even hitting it a couple of times. This forced me to create the power pocket and now I don't need the exaggerated movement to feel it.

[@ouch2345]

@@jamalydude you may never see this, but I’ve watched countless videos as well and tried super hard to learn it. After about 2 years I finally “felt it”. I can tell you the motion feels far away, your wrist at the end of the whip feels so fast it’ll shock you. The biggest tip I ever received to help my game, was first slowly moving the disc into the chest and the big boom happens after disc has crossed the sternum or after the pec.

[@CyberDarkZero]

@@rjmetzger7885 something I'm trying to understand is what some people describe the uncorking of the shoulders to push the disc out once it gets to your chest. Not exactly sure how to do that or how it's supposed to feel. I currently feel like I'm just unbending the elbow out and flinging it out and not doing it properly.. any tips?

[@rjmetzger7885]

@@CyberDarkZero ya, I have something that might help. Have you tried the "Twirly Bird" by overthrow disc golf? What I recommend to get a feel for what you're talking about is go from the twirly bird into what I call replacing your right shoulder with your left shoulder as quickly as possible. Don't think about your arm at all just let it stay limp like the twirly bird. So, once you get a feel for the power pocket with the twirly bird. From twirly, limp arm reach back, to explosively replacing your right shoulder with your left, your arm will uncontrollably fling out. You will not muscle it out but it will go flying if you do this right. That is the feel you're shooting for. My max distance shots don't feel too dissimilar to this. Then, I just muscle up the arm based on how much control I need. That's tough to type out, but I hope it helps. Let me know if I need to clarify.

[@lossprevails]

Maybe it's my own fault, but this is really the first time I've ever heard anybody stress the fact that the reachback and pull-through to the chest should be more slow and methodical (focused on placement). I always hear in clinics or what-not that the pull-through should come to that spot in the chest, but I feel like they never stressed that it shouldn't really be as fast or powerful as the end of the throw. I always have tried to power my arm into the reachback and power my elbow through the pull-through and still always ended up rounding and really didn't know why. Now I know. Hopefully this can slowly ease my recent frustrations. EDIT: Just got back from the field, managed to get three putters in a row out to 250 without turning over and all of my mids flying exactly as designed. This video happened to be an absolute gem for me, so thank you very much loopghost. Never felt as natural to throw as it does right now.

[@ronalbert3325]

Fantastic job! My game was all over the place and I needed to get back to basics, watched the Beto drill (again) and somehow lead to your vids. Awesome. I have watched half of them so far last night and today after work I was out getting some field work with some promising results. I have always known I needed to PULL through the chest but couldn't do it while playing. This vid has started me on my way to being able to do that. Thanks!

[@Chris.Davies]

What really helps me is to think of the upper arm being the handle of the whip. Most people consider their whole arm to be the whip, but that is a mistake. The upper body is the whipping "arm", and the upper arm is the hand and the handle of the whip. The whip has two levers in it; the elbow hinge and the wrist hinge. If you keep your upper arm to chest angle fixed and static as you draw the disc into the chest, the handle of the whip advances incredible quickly, and it's spinal rotation which achieves this, by turning the rear knee in and down very rapidly. This just leaves the elbow and wrist hinges to operate as the whip. And when the whipping handle stops, and the levers are unwound, the maximum possible leverage automagically takes place.

[@nordicdiscgolferatrumble9430]

Great post, but i need to ask: "Levers are unwound" automaticly? Is there no need for helping the two levers unwound by extending the elbow hinge - like a jab or swimstroke?

[@176novick]

Just want to say thanks. At this point in my game this was the video I needed. You are a wizard.

[@loopghost]

Thanks Jersey - hope you're having fun!

[@arselihp]

Thanks, this is fantastic. The actual Beto drill video doesn't really mean anything to me--just some footage of a dude with a frisbee. Fleshing it out makes all the difference.

[@arselihp]

OK, so this is even BETTER than the Beto video... as a noob this was way easier for me to understand...

[@videosverigenu4621]

Hmm.. would this work with keeping the disc at the pec all the time then rip it, rather than reaching back and guiding it in first?

[@polkevasammakko2326]

Very helpful videos, thank you for making these!

[@nightops4ever]

I stopped referring to the drive up as "reach back" but rather "the point at which I leave the disc until my hips drive it forward". It's akin to shooting rubber bands with your finger by locking the holding point, and moving your pointing finger forward until your holding point releases. In disc golf the hand/lower arm isn't really meant to start "throwing the disc" until you are in the power pocket because your hips and shoulders have pulled the disc from your holding point into the power pocket. After learning this, slowing down my run-up, and then developing my mental timing/twitch muscles, I went from reasonable 250' throws to 350' throws since I'm now fully incorporating my leg/core/shoulder/back muscles into my throw, and not just my arm... and my arm feels a ton better after a full day of disc golf too!

[@zaboogoosfraba6699]

Dan Beto drill is awesome

[@derrickpreston2302]

Grate advice! Thanks

[@blacklisted8749]

Around 2:10 you talk about the acceleration drives from the peck to the release, and you specifically say we shouldn’t yank the disc to the peck, what confuses me is when we do the elbow smash drill it looks and feels like I’m yanking the disc forward to get that elbow smash.

[@loopghost]

So keep in mind that this was 6 years ago, and it was the thing I was working on at that specific moment. So elbow smash was as I was trying to get weight against my plant leg and be able to resist forward momentum so that I could go from center chest to fully extended arm.

[@jaypence332]

You should we do this

[@jaypence332]

Like a long waitedupdate.

[@K4kashiSensei]

Mind blown! Thanks for the info.

[@Izz.yG24]

This makes so much sense

[@sruhkamp]

Great explanation! Thanks

[@SimpleHumman]

it's like an ice skater spinning, when you want to go faster bring your arms closer to your center mass, to slow down let them extend outwards.

[@kleberdigby5298]

So I basically have watch this video 10 times over the past year-and-a-half. Where I'm at now is when you're pulling the disc through do you always keep it on a straight line all the way up into the right PEC and then after the right pec it never moves off that straight line? Also, do you use your arm at all at any point during the throw the muscles or is your arm just to whip all the way through out. Thanks

[@loopghost]

There's 2 distinct approaches to the backswing: 1. Straight Pull: You put the disc on the line that you're throwing and it moves along that line into the power pocket (center/slight right chest). 2. Wide Rail (Nate Doss): Your backswing puts the disc out wide from you and you bring the disc in on a different line than you're throwing on - and eject it forward on your throwing line. In both cases, the extension of the disc forward will take the disc off the straight line, because you'll be creating an arc with the extension. During these drills it's best to keep the arm like a big wet noodle. Muscles are engaged enough to keep the arm moving through the motions, but you're not tightening muscles (aside from your grip, which will need to keep the forearm slightly engaged).

[@kleberdigby5298]

Oh okay I see. One of the two main problems I have when trying to bring the disk to my right PEC is I seem to over rotate my shoulders and pull the disc to the right. It goes pretty far 400-410 when I pull to the right. Your shoulder rotation shouldn't slow down at all from reach back to follow through correct? The other thing that happens is I try to focus on keeping the disc on a on a straight line too much so therefore when I pull through it's almost like I'm not back handing someone but jabbing them in the face and my focus on keeping the disc on a straight line ends up curling my wrist after it passes my right PEC. So just to confirm you bring the disc to your right PEC with elbow extension and elbow up, but you Arc the disc once it hits your right PEC as if your back handing someone. So basically your elbow is staying on more of a straight line and the disk arcs around it or the lever point. Once I take my elbow off the line that's what causes the shot to pull to the right correct?

[@loopghost]

Exactly, and right pec is not truly the spot. If you slow motion Paul McBeth, etc, they typically hit center chest with the hand on the outside. It sounds like you're exactly on the right path... shoot some video, post it up on the dgcr form/analysis forum!

[@kleberdigby5298]

Thank you sir! Will do

[@MyOpinionMatterss]

Nice explanation.

[@loopghost]

thanks, lots more on form at heavyDisc.blogspot.com

[@kleberdigby5298]

I think I have been driving my hips to early and letting my noodle arm drag behind and totally missing the real hit. are you supposed to use some arm movement to bring the disc to your right pec to time it with the brave? because I've been letting my hips do all the work and basically no arm as to avoid strong arming the disc. but it seems some arm movement has to take place outside of the hips to get the disc to meet at the right pec

[@loopghost]

The arm movement of bringing the disc forward is initiated by the heel down portion of the plant. There's probably some minimum amount of muscle engaged, but it is not something you're trying to add power to.

[@kleberdigby5298]

going out to try and master those levers today and guide it into the hit. I think one thing that threw me off was me trying to mimic Simon over the past couple of months and not paying attention to other players(hit) after rewatching your KZbin clip for the first time in about 6 months I realized I was Doing it all wrong, and further more proceeded to look up clips of Ricky, Nate, etc and so for the first time where the real exceleration starts. Thanks for all these vids and brig passionate about your craft! hopefully this will give me that 400 consistent throw

[@loopghost]

Good luck sir! Glad to help as counter-intuitive as it seems, by slowing down and making sure to accelerate late - you will throw faster.

[@kleberdigby5298]

So after focusing on bringing the disc to the right pec I have gained probrably 50 extra feet constantly. But now I'm wondering just how much arm do you use after the disc meets the right pec. I seem to have the most arm speed when I dont use any arm muscle at all.

[@loopghost]

That is in keeping with using the hit - instead of your arm muscle. The arm stays loose and fast and as long as you keep hitting that magic spot of hand on the outside of the disc, you'll keep the accuracy and power. If you tighten up the muscles in the arm, you'll slow down and be more prone to injurt!

[@jamesstables6636]

Thanks for well explained and concise video. what distance were you getting on those throws. i heard you say 260 at the end. were they all around that distance? thanks

[@loopghost]

This was quite a while back, but in this video - I’d guess I was throwing 230-260’ depending on the disc and angles. It took me some time to use the motion more efficiently.

[@AmsterdamHeavy]

thank you sir

[@queenmari89]

Trying so hard to understand this. Focusing on the power pocket just makes me strong arm it and the top of my right bicep feels very strained. When I dont focus on it, I play pain free, even though I start the acceleration way early

[@loopghost]

To be honest, I’ve had much better luck in the intervening years teaching as I shared in the form 101 series on my channel. Drills are designed to help players FEEL something and not everyone has the same response.

[@cmsjp3]

So when doing this Beto drill with only the arm I'm getting about 200ft. It's a stand still with a putter. As soon as I try to get hips into it I'm still throwing the same distance. And it feels like my shoulder is always coming up when I involve hips. I'm going to try to slow down but How else can I fix that?

[@loopghost]

Most of the time the inclination is to tighten up muscles and throw the disc hard. I know it's insane to think, but the easiest way to improve distance is to stay loose and slow and make sure you get the disc to the magic spots (with that hand on the outside of the disc).

[@cmsjp3]

loopghost now I'm having the problem with rounding even doing just the BETO drill. Think I pulled some thing in my back

[@dalcowboiz]

loopghost wow ive just done a week of work (practicing hrs every day) starting with mimicking pros, to beato drill, to yours and seabas22's vids and much more and somehow i missed that i was still strong arming it the whole time. I can even see it in every slowmo vid i take but it didnt click until i read your comment here. Time to figure out those magic spots better

[@SimpleHumman]

Hi, made an observation and wonder if this is relevant to the throw- When throwing you throw your head level changes. Do you think this can affect consistency?

[@SnapShotHotshot]

Hey thanks for all the great videos it's really been helping me out quite a bit. Here's an odd question though what kind of pants are those you're wearing?

[@loopghost]

Snapshot Hotshot, Inc. those are Marmot pants, and I love them

[@SnapShotHotshot]

loopghost Awesome! Thank.

[@gomonkey]

Marmot makes really high quality stuff. $$$ but it lasts bigtime

[@Chris.Davies]

Try this drill but with a lot more offset between rear and plant foot. And when the disc gets to the Real Power Pocket, extend your front leg hard, just as you smash the elbow hard. You'll be amazed... But wait, there's more! This increases hip rotation rate and applies more pressure to the ground as you are applying maximum force to displace your traction via the elbow smash. But... I'm not done yet!... Timed correctly, your plant foot will disengage perfectly to rotate on your heel as the pressure decreases once the extension is completed, AND... This completely eliminates energy-sapping foot movement prior to the release. I could go on... And I do - on my blog.

[@nathanmoynihan472]

for some reason , dispite the clarity of demonstration , DG still takes practice ... watched this video was pumped about trying it out , 100 throws on & im back to review ... think iv got it this time ... im off fa a few more . thanks .

[@nordicdiscgolferatrumble9430]

So basicly the pros are guiding it to the pocket super fast, making it look like theyre rippin it already, to the untrained eye?

[@loopghost]

i.imgur.com/oCsZ8Mw.jpeg Check that image... see how the disc doesn't accelerate until it's ejecting?

[@nordicdiscgolferatrumble9430]

@@loopghost when the white lines start to be futher apart the rip is happening? (or maybe rather a push than a rip?)

[@Imjony5]

I know this may sound crazy, but you are still too worried about keeping the disc in line on your back swing and are over reaching. Relax your upper body more and rely on your hips more. Follow all the way through and hitting 400 on a pure hyzer with an overstable disc is no longer a challenge.

[@loopghost]

Not crazy... this video is over 2 years old. 2 years and LOTS of fieldwork! It's been a long journey from this video.

[@BasiclyYoutastic]

loopghost Please share

[@edgalapeaux7965]

what is a Beto drill?

[@loopghost]

Disc Golf Tips and Technique: Driving with Dan Beto

[@nathanmoynihan472]

returned to review , after watching this i was sure your video was going to produce some Bruce Lee . But not even ....eat sleep throw re............................................

[@HaikesXO]

@spinandthrow doesnt seem to agree

[@Chris.Davies]

One more thing: you're always reaching into a rounded position. Reach OUT, not back. You want ~120 degrees from shoulders to upper arm. That way you always hit the power pocket correctly.

[@loopghost]

This video is 6 years old, things have changed!

[@Chris.Davies]

Don't feel shame, Jason! It has taken me 33 full years of constant struggle before I finally put the last pieces of the puzzle into place, and that happened over Christmas, after watching this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4bGYmx8qrCehtU There is no pulling in disc golf! There is only "closing" and "opening" - flexion and extension. Throwing a disc is effectively an Un-Punch at ~120-degrees to the chest! Using only your elbow and wrist. This so the disc comes to the Real Power Pocket (Right side of chest) not the Fake Power Pocket, which is the left side of the chest. An Un-punch which is performed while rotating on the straightened plant leg, due to the rear foot being turned straight down, and driven backwards and rightwards to prevent the bracing action from creating a falling drive. Every drive where a thrower fails to finish on just the plant foot is a poorly executed attempt at a drive. This means there's really only one player on tour with proper backhand form: Drew "Daddy Backhand" Gibson. But the funny thing is, he doesn't teach his own plant leg extension technique, so I don't think he really understands what separates him from the rest. But this is not surprising given the woeful lack of knowledge of the backhand throw, by 99% of professionals.