Brutally HONEST Conversation on PRICING and SALES That Every Photographer Needs to Hear

[@slrlounge]

Read the full article here ► slrlounge.com/conversation-about-pricing-and-sales-in-photography

[@MarkTengPhoto]

Incidentally, almost nobody buys a Bentley at the MSRP. That number is a guide that shows where you start from and you are really supposed to go up from there. Just sayin.

[@AdventureSingh]

Pye how did you learn to speak concisely without saying uhs and uhms! Man I've always loved the way you speak!

[@payamjirsa]

Appreciate that! A lot of practice public speaking, listening back to all my errors, then trying to do better. Always something to keep improving.

[@wethingtonphoto]

Adventure Singh his composure when dealing with critical feedback is great as well.

[@FrankP83]

he really knows what is telling...just this...imho =)

[@MarioWills]

On point with this statement!

[@tss3393]

The pauses he takes seem like they go a long way (from someone who struggles with a lot of uhs and ums 😂)

[@tommydaynjer5334]

“You are providing a luxury service not a quick consumer product” That right there has officially changed my whole view of photo sessions thank you!

[@payamjirsa]

So glad! Thanks for your comment.

[@keithkreatives]

Read my comment. It's SOOOO true. Be confident and be willing to walk away if they don't like your price. If you undersell yourself, that will become your reputation and like many other "service industry" companies, much of your business is word of mouth

[@glendybeatriz8688]

yes this def hit home for me

[@thothheartmaat2833]

i was out walking and realized since everyone has a phone they developed a sour grapes attitude toward pro photography.. they have a phone so they can just do it with their phone.. that guy over there is too expensive so i cant have that so i dont want it so i just want whatever goofy stuff i do with the phone.. its called sour grapes when you decide you dont want something you cant have.. you decide that its bad and that makes you feel better about not being able to have it..

[@SeanBogue]

Embracing the client. Building a relationship.Listening what their wants are. Clients come back and spread the word.

[@payamjirsa]

Yes!

[@danzak44]

I know this video is 3 yrs old, but WOW! You blew my mind like you always do Pye! Thank you!

[@ericjamesphotography]

Absolutely priceless information Pye. It’s always been clear to me the personality type of a professional creative has to be very dynamic above and beyond the majority of most occupations. More often than not we dive directly into our introverted artistic field and pay a little attention to the human element of communication. My background in sales has served me exponentially well within my overall business framework as a 10 year full time pro shooter. Your insight is spot on and much appreciated!

[@JustTony72]

Pye, as someone who's just booked a wedding photographer. Arguable one of the best in our state I found his approach similar to yours. The business knew they're more expensive than others and that not everyone can afford it. So they were straight with us from day one. We appreciated it. Especially when you're organising 50 other things which hugely important, the family is on your back about making things perfect etc, etc. The last thing we wanted was to have to jump through hoops to get pricing. They told us the bare minimum and the average spend. Ok you're happy let's book a time to nut out what you really want and what it will cost.

[@portrait_photography]

You’re freaking amazing bro. I appreciate all this valuable information.

[@daphodilphoto]

So good. Going to watch this more than once to really let everything set in! Such great advice that we are the guide and the customer truly doesn't know what they need. I have to stop putting that on them (like where to shoot, what to wear, what to do with their photos).

[@brettthemonster]

This is some real talk that a lot of photographers need to hear. Stop making excuses and do it. You're not going to get anywhere feeling sorry for yourself or blaming external factors for your lack of success. I recently went pro about a year and a half ago and it was slow at first, but within a few months of working a ton and I ended up having an amazing 2019 with good work to show for it. It is true that there are more photographers than ever, but most just give up when it gets hard and shoot nothing but Instagram trends, which makes you $0 unless you're an influencer of some kind. People's perception of what a photographer has changed, so adapt with it.

[@payamjirsa]

Thank you for the comment! Yes!

[@arielsoto6041]

Just excelent content, thanks. I completely agree with what you say and clarifies and deepens the ideas of the previous video.

[@GrandEpicPhotos]

Thank you, you are a genius and a great mentor. 👊

[@celo2043]

This was a masterclass! Thank you, Pye!

[@slrlounge]

If you want to learn more you can always check out our full Business course that includes much more info on pricing: www.slrloungeworkshops.com/photography-business-training-system

[@ivan0bebe]

Enjoyed a lot! 👍🏼👍🏼

[@portrashot]

You are right, we want an easy sales process to go back to camera nerds. That's not going to work. We have to grow by putting the camera down and talk to the one who need the service. Sales is the backbone of business, and if you want become a business owner... You like it or not you have to master the science.

[@alantuttphotography]

Completely agree with all of your points. Smartphones and other low-end cameras have improved to the point where the low-end photography businesses are no longer viable. This means that in order to make it as a professional photographer, you have to become more of an artist than a technician, and you have to know how to sell as an artist, which means that there's no such thing as a common commodity price structure. Why is one artist worth $100 and another worth $100,000? Image quality will definitely be a part of it. Style will be another. And service is also important, especially since no one wants to hire a photographer who is going to boss everyone around at their wedding just to get the photos the PHOTOGRAPHER wants to get. These are details most people don't think of, and details you need to educate them on before your pricing can be compared to that of other photographers. Establish value first, then the pricing makes sense. Pye, the mic sounds good, but is visually distracting. I'd much rather have you speaking to me than to the mic.

[@payamjirsa]

YES!

[@markshirley01]

No 1 is my creed - well said Pye.

[@joseuribe1552]

I agree 100%!

[@Sirfunkymonkey]

Top tier right here

[@happycoloredmarblez]

I agree with your approach to sales 100%. Pulling teeth with someone who can’t afford you to doesn’t want to pay is a waste of everyone’s time.

[@moramino]

Cant find the fb group, does it exist still?

[@jsavak99]

This is a whole other linear skill set . For me its like learning a new way of thinking and being...like a drudgery

[@luissalazar2021]

Mr. As always selling himself 😂 LOL it was good introduction anyways

[@romiemiller2485]

One of my parents' friends told me, when I was in high school, that no matter how crowded a field is, there's always room at the top.

[@payamjirsa]

Agreed

[@wethingtonphoto]

I sure hope so!! I’m at the bottom of my market right now. I’m doing everything I can to get to the top. Heck, I would settle for top 10! I just want people to know I exist! I don’t even have people to not share my price list with! How crazy is that??

[@jamilgotcher5456]

That's right Romie! Everybody these days wants to be a model and a photographer. But I actually was a professional high fashion model that walked the runways for top designers. Did I let that scare me off from getting into modeling? That every girl and woman wants to be a model? No. I now work at my photography business with the same work ethic that helped me succeed in modeling. My Dad's an active professional photographer at 75, he's my inspiration. He got his masters through PPofA.

[@newnastyn]

@@wethingtonphoto i hope things got better for you, because right now I sound exactly like you last year ...

[@thothheartmaat2833]

what if youre at the top but everyone pretends youre not and forces you to be at the bottom because thats how the field works..

[@MichaelAnthonyphoto]

I LOVE the point driven home here about $250 sessions, that is the quickest way to lose your passion for photography, 475 sessions a year to clear 50k.....475 sessions....think about that for a second, who can do that many sessions without burning out?

[@payamjirsa]

Thank you my friend, I appreciate you watching and commenting. Most photographers unknowingly price themselves into burnout without even realizing it. Hopefully the video helped for some.

[@VladimirPlavac]

I agree so much on everything you said right there Pye, I have a good example: Last week, a couple that reached out asking for pricing via email. I picked up my phone 2 minutes after recieving the email and asked the bride to tell me everything about her and her future wife and also about their upcoming wedding. Then talked about what we offer as a couple of photographers, then after that we talked about the budget that's when I noticed that the budget they planned for photography was way off. But you know what, she ended up booking us paying twice the price they planned. When she called me back later the same day, she just told me, I'm not waiting for any other photographer I reached out to to come back to me, you were the first, you took the time to explain to me what you do and how and you also took the time to help us plan things ahead for our wedding. Appealing photography will get people knocking at your door, if they come inside is up to what you offer and what makes you stand out from the others and most of the times people don't really see much of a difference between you and your competition anyway (in terms of photo quality)

[@danzak44]

Well said!!

[@myxsys]

Photography is a "luxury product", not a "consumer product". That point drove through my consciousness like a nail! I now have a completely different perspective on photography business.

[@aquilifergroup]

Great. Now convince the rest of the public of this revelation. The reality is that most people see it as something that is an extra. Portraits to most people are the photos taken at school for their ID.

[@jordanbellotti3026]

Honestly, these are absolutely essential tips for the modern photographer. Great info!

[@payamjirsa]

Glad you are enjoying Jordan, feel free to share. Appreciate you being here!

[@thomastarner8683]

"I don't need sales education. I have professional camera gear". Oh man, that speaks volumes. I'm hooked on this channel now, and looking forward to learning more from it. Thanks :)

[@payamjirsa]

Glad you are here!

[@MrClarkeGaber]

I'm not a salesperson, I'm a MF artist dammit. Actually, I'm neither, LMAO. I just take pics for fun and will never do photography professionally, but for some reason, I feel compelled to watch all of your videos, even one on pricing.

[@payamjirsa]

I appreciate your comment! Nothing wrong with keeping things as your hobby, that's what I do with most of my passions!

[@wethingtonphoto]

I’m trying to make the hobby my business. Man is it hard!!

[@WesPerry]

Thanks for your responses, Pye. I still don’t 100% agree with you, but much better understand the position you’re coming from and the ethic behind it. Sorry for letting my biases get the better of me, but many of the words and phrases you used in the previous video threw up red flags like crazy for me. I see now that much of it was coming from a different place, though. 👍🏻

[@payamjirsa]

Wes, I super appreciate you being here my friend. Thank you for your initial comments, as well as your skepticism. It's what pushed me to create this video. I'm grateful that you are hear, and it's OK that you don't except everything I said. In fact, it's a good thing. It means that you are skeptical of new information, and that's where you want to live. So put it into practice, and test it out for yourself. The pieces that work, take those and make it your own. Thanks again for your comments, glad you are here!

[@matthewcheung5136]

@Wes Perry It sounds like you're describing trigger words.

[@IrisNelson]

Customer service is everything. Educate your clients first, before giving them pricing. Sell you service first. That is my personal opinion.

[@AngryBroccoliRecipesVegan]

I swear I thought that was Louis Rossman, the guy on KZbin who fixes Mac laptops.and PCBs.

[@plasma800]

Here’s something people forget. The iPhone is only marginally better than your grandpas automatic 35mm film camera. It’s just that today lots more people have them. And so what? Your grandpas automatic film camera didn’t put Professional studios out of business ... and neither will the cell phone. Most people are not inherently creative, and most people are extremely busy juggling kids, jobs all sorts of crap. Professional photography is here to stay, don’t think for one second it isn’t.

[@gennimae3710]

Youre soo right! I started my own business last year, after C.O.B calculations...ive PAID PPL TO TAKE THEIR PHOTOS!!!! WTF????😢😱😱😱😱🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦

[@payamjirsa]

Yes! Isn't that crazy!? So glad you are doing CODB calculations!

[@gennimae3710]

@@payamjirsa i lost my mind last year...but have NO FEAR! Ive found it and creating the reality i want to live!❤

[@wethingtonphoto]

Alright. I have no idea what c.o.b. is. I think in going to Google it! Sounds important...

[@diam8749]

Wethington Photo cost of business

[@josephhummel6200]

Been there :( I asked a family member to pay my overhead cost so I wouldn't lose money shooting their wedding - they got so mad - I ended up feelign guilty and shooting it without being paid, and it cost me about 1600 to do it. It was the most expensive gift they didn't even think they received. Another friend from childhood - I offered to do their wedding for free but I explained it cost me and he and his wife understood and they paid for flights/car rental and hotel and they were so happy they sent me a card with their favorite photos on the card. Some people value and some don't - I only choose to work with those that understand value.

[@TailoredTechnique]

You one of my favorite KZbinr/mentor and you don’t even know it. Such an incredible action packed channel.

[@MichaelAnthonyphoto]

Dude.....Pye you are so patient with these people! Amazing video and great info and to the armchair experts disagreeing with you I will ask one question, does your method work better than Pye's....not for your business, not for your clients, but in general, brass tax, are you making more sales? 99.8% of studios out there will have to answer NO....so why question his method? Everything he said here is SPOT ON.

[@BreeCrutch]

My gawd I have a headache after listening to some of these questions/comments. Some people REALLY do hear what they want to hear. Wtf! Put words in your mouth much, Pye? 💗 Unbelievable. You handled these beautifully, BTW. 👍

[@payamjirsa]

Thanks Bree! I think there's truth in everything people are saying, but there's also truth that we often fail to see in other people's perspectives.

[@thothheartmaat2833]

whats up with people hiring you and making you go somewhere then cancelling and you not finding out till you show up and also making you work to hope to sell pictures later then them not buying any? pay up front no refunds... its like people want to waste your time and money on purpose because theyre evil.. oh sorry.. sorry that happened.. every day...

[@geronimo5537]

Yeah definitely have your booking and set up fees done up front. Otherwise they are likely to get emotional with regret later and either not pay or avoid you. Free to speak or consult but never free labor. You have been letting yourself get used. This type of thing can happen in any business as its how human interaction goes. Most people will flake out without notice it's the money that keeps them invested. Then once they see your product they are like wow I want ten without ever knowing it before that point.

[@michellehass2734]

Pye, I couldn't agree more with your outlook . Marketing to a client who chooses value and experience over price. I just recently made the pivot to offering luxury photography services and high end finished products. First of all, I was through pouring my passion and endless hours into a trade that ended up earning me less than minimum wage. And secondly, my customers needed and wanted educated and it blew my mind how previously, by offering no education and low prices , I was actually penalizing clients who wanted to spend money. Thank you for your professionalism. Our industry needs you!

[@geronimo5537]

This was an interning comment. By saying customers wanted education, what did you begin sharing that made the difference and did it allow for greater success?

[@kigonywanduthi]

Well put Pye. A great car dealer first listen to your needs, recommends the best car for you and even gives you a chance to test drive before they close the sale. That's the difference between giving price list versus a client visiting your office getting a chance to feel and touch the actual product. I have an average booking rate of 95% for clients who visit my office and 7% booking for client who only requests price list. Even in real estate you visit the house.

[@payamjirsa]

Yes! I love that you keep track of your #s

[@EverydayFamilyFL]

Great mentoring from one of the best.... Pay attention everyone. This video is gold

[@payamjirsa]

Appreciate it!

[@tomschellingmusic]

Love this video! This is all so true. Let me also say that I've taken all 4 of the SLR Lounge business of photography courses and each and every one of them was a game changer on the way I look at my business. Thank you Pye and SLR Lounge for all you guys do!

[@payamjirsa]

Yes! Thanks so much Tom for the support and comment, so glad you are part of our community!

[@Pixel_Mechanic]

To all the people comparing photography services to that of buying a car. There's always a difference between buying a product and buying a service. Service cost is dependent on the requirement and the cost differs from client to client depending on what extras they need, how much time we need to spend, how much learning is involved, how much effort is involved, how much of man power is involved and so on. Photography service is not always a templatized. Its an art and art being subjective differs for each client

[@Overnightphotoguy]

Hi I'm Eric! This was an awesome video thank you! I'm looking for and ready for this type of training. Heading over to the site to check you guys out. I'm also interested in some specific information a 1 on 1 consultation would likely be needed for. Would love to chat via email or phone etc. Thanks!

[@Sasquatchbones]

What I found impressive is you said everyone can create a high quality image these days. Yet you say you don’t think the business is over saturated… you lie and don’t have the intestinal fortitude to as least admit it? Come on man, at least be consistent. A lot of this makes sense, but we have to be honest about everything and also everyone’s perspective. Every photographer in every area will require a different approach then yours. And you’re seeing the people that are in oversaturated areas, who are NOT manipulative salesman, dealing with people who actually do not appreciate the “luxury” service.

[@cirf1979]

I love how straightforward you are. I love photography and been doing it since middle school. I'm just getting started as a business. Thanks for your video's. They are very helpful.

[@payamjirsa]

Thank you Claudia! Glad you are here!

[@geronimo5537]

Im starting a photography business as well. May I ask what are some things you learned or discovered in the two years since posting this Claudia?

[@cirf1979]

Geronimo unfortunately I had to stop what I was doing with my photography due to my mother's illness that took a turn for the worse. She is doing better now. I have been following Pye Jirsa and the SLR channel for a long time and the advice they give is great. Ive learned about lighting and pricing as many people out there don't take into account everything that needs to be done by the photographer. Equipment has to be taken care of, and I have learned to value my time and what I do. I'm hoping to start up again since my mom had her liver transplant is doing better.

[@geronimo5537]

@@cirf1979 I hope things get better for the both of you. Yes the insight has been great. There is more than just a picture in the price.

[@Sasquatchbones]

Information is great, but you talk about a “global” audience that appreciates services like this. Most humans don’t have a “global” reach much less most photographers don’t have global reach. You seem to have the reach that has infinite clientele and resources. The rest of us are trying to manage the clientele in the immediate areas we are at. If we run into clients that don’t value, the answer isn’t well globally there are many people. Yes, just like globally we may find the love of our life somewhere among the billions… most of us aren’t going to travel the entire globe bruh.

[@mykkwento9030]

my first solo wedding was I see my services as not a luxury I am like the last resort. I told my first couple if they can get someone else who has better equipment then they should go for it. But with all the covid thing, long story short I was the only one who can shoot their prenuptial and wedding film.. I explain what I can and cannot do.. I cannot give them smooth montage shots or a walking running shot.. but what I can give them is my presentation of their love story.. My equipment is only my Sony a7ii and a very cheap 50mm manual lens, nd filters, batteries, a pen and paper to draw their storyboard.. I finished their whole story without even taking the first picture.. And as I am showing them the storyboard I can see that they love the story.. btw I shoot wedding film and stills.. They where asking for my price but I said if we can discuss in person so that I can establish the services and the price. I was lucky to have that chance to converse with my client and getting to know them and figuring out what they want and need, then offering them the things that I can do base on the limitations of my equipment and the price that I will charge. I have no portfolio or proof of work to show, but somehow with the storyboard which I draw nicely and the way I present it to them on how the shoot will proceed, how much time we need, the dresses they need, props, and the locations we need to film and how the story unfolds even the transitions I am going to use, somehow convey to them that I know what I am talking about.

[@edinaimagery2377]

Thank you for this video. I've been taking photos for maybe 10 years leisurely but only 4 years ago did I start understanding the business aspect to it when people would request my services, I was the friend with the camera. I always felt inclined to keep prices affordable to get more clients so I thought that was the way to do it... the luxury bit in this video was such eye opener. I've followed SLR Lounge for a while on KZbin and I can't be more grateful than I am today for the videos and information you've provided for us. Thank you so much Pye!

[@blancosuperfuegodiego544]

Thank you Sir. this is awesome God Bless you.🙏

[@danielr4018]

I love this. I had the same mind set as you that you explained in this video about general price and meeting first to see what the client wanted. but was unsure of it cause most photographers seemed very about themselves and here's my price sheet. (Not saying all photographers) I felt that doesn't seem right. Coming from 13 yrs in EMS, I felt its about my clients and helping them achieve a goal they want with what I know. You confirmed it with this video. Its about the client and the experience. We need to make it a fun and positive experience for our clients. Much love and respect brother. Happy new year.

[@romiemiller3093]

There are a lot of photographers, but few excellent ones. One of my parents' friends told me that it didn't matter how crowded a field is, there's always room at the top.

[@jerrym8140]

Awesome and I totally agree, even as I’m working on building my business more. I see this so often in Facebook post and all, someone looking for a photographer and they get all kinds of suggestions. Some even say something to the sort, yeah I’ll do it for $500 (for a weeding) etc. I also at times get tagged in these post by previous clients or family and when I do, then I do respond thinking about the client.. A quick congratulations to them, and then simply letting them know I would love the opportunity to talk to them and see what it is they are wanting. While most then don’t contact me, that’s ok but there is someone for them but just how can someone say you will do it for $xxxx and not even know what they want not smart practice at all. Great stuff!

[@Tellitphoto]

Thanks Pye for another brilliant video. You addressed a very difficult topic with clarity and confidence, thank you so much for posting.

[@payamjirsa]

Appreciate the comment Paul.

[@cyberathlete]

Here is how the typical client I speak with is throwing a wedding: Average number of guests per event: 300-400 Bridal outfit from dress, shoes, to makeup: all top notch designers and makeup artists in the area. No expense spared here Groom: Same. Decor: Hire a reputable and expensive decorator to make sure decor is lavish Venue: Beautiful venues for a wedding (sometimes downtown hotels) Food: No expense spared here either. They want the best vendor to ensure the food is amazing Then they'll also throw in money on a Maserati or Lambo for the getaway car. They'll also hire musicians and even have a horse carriage to make an entrance with. Average number of days you will be photographing and hours investing for 1 wedding: 3 days/15-18 hours of photography, not counting the hours planning everything for these weddings and then editing all those pictures Client says, everyone else is charging lower, and you're charging $5000 just for photography for all that (don't forget you have to go to 3 events for this 1 wedding, and then also do all the prep work for each day and plan shots for each day)? I have gotten 30-40 inquiries for this year, and number of clients booked? 2! I had 25 weddings 2018, 18 weddings 2019, and so far for 2020: 2 and I don't think this is going to change, we're already hitting February. I hate to say it but I think I have no choice but to call it quits. It was a good run while it lasted. There are so many photographers who are new, and honestly have no grasp on the art form and are charging maybe 30% less of what I would be asking but everyone is flocking to them to save $1000-$2000. Which equates to $333-$667 per day. Which is nothing compared to what they're spending in entirety on the wedding. $333-$667 to pay more for a full time professional is not much to ask for.. I worked so hard to learn the art, learn lighting under all conditions. learn to pose, how to work with architecture, how to pose knowing the personalities of the couple, knowing the aesthetics they like, how to light up every venue consistently with your style, learning every feature of Lightroom inside and out and how to edit...list goes on and for all that I got nothing in return. And Pye if you want to see my work I can send you a link in private. Thanks!

[@geronimo5537]

I really resonate with your down to earth experiences. I'm hoping to start my own photography business having similar adventures. And I'm curious to know did you truly call it quits two years ago or did you find the jewl that turned it around into sucess? If so for either could you tell me what made the difference from then too now.

[@JayGrapherTh]

great video, my personal main take away is what you said (photography is a luxury product/service) something along those lines but that really hit home what it really takes to do well. Im criticizing myself but if i feel i cant really charge the amount it will take to make a living then maybe my skills are just not there or too amateur to charge that amount in the first place. That sure anyone with a phone can take a picture but only a photographer with experience and knowledge can do better and take images that phones cant. (i personally see that with product photography that the starting level is low / basic / easy to start but when i see other tutorials and the possibilities presented by a professional the quality and difficulty goes way UP and that level of product photography then could demand a higher price , just one example/feeling i saw online)

[@elmerescobar433]

Thank you for posting this Pye. Lots to think about here. There are some things that definitely stood out to me: sending out a complicated pricing list is something I never really though too much about. I know we can definitely simplify things or initiate that in person meeting better and see if that approach has more success. Thank you for everything and I hope you guys have a super successful year!

[@philindeblanc]

You maybe selling the feeling and service idea, but at the end of the day the client will get similar results in photos as another equally capable photographer. So yes, the "service" or "stroking" the client and how you made them feel is what you are selling, and that does have a value. I think its a fake one, but hey, people get breast implants, and such things to make them happy, why not some photos?! Good video! These may work best for wedding photography, specially when the clients are doing a "once" in a lifetime purchase, which they are usually unfamiliar with, and are looking for an "expert". This is a position a sales person photographer can totally guide and take control, weather they deliver on the goods or not(case by case). I wonder the approach you would take with portraits, or simple headshots, or product work, etc? Perhaps you don't base much income on those types of shoots. So unless you do weddings, you don't easily get this platform to work from...you gotta be a mega BS artist or shmoozer like Peter Hurely to get $1000-4000 per head shot. Not too many wandering people with unlimited funds to spend that...But there is always Dubai to setup shop. IDK, I could be wrong...I am in a large capacity, but I am also wrong, as I totally see this approach in a certain business setup that might have more than 1 shooter regularly.

[@DanieldelaGarza]

A car as an objetive value, car parts, tires all that you can find an objective value and it doesnt deppend on opinions, it is a fact kind of. Services are subjective because a person states the value of their time and expertise and someone who aproches this exact person doesnt know what this guys value and time stands for. For an exact analogy would be this: You walk into a car dealership and all the cars are covered with a blanket, the client doesnt know what he can get but he has a budget, the sales person is the one responsible for guiding that person into buying a 50k car or a 10k car from what he needs, he doesnt care what a Bentley is or a Camry, he just has a budget and wants somebody to tell him whats the best deal he can get. Thats photography and before putting up prices on yourself, define how much you value yourself so you can actually sell that to someone.

[@payamjirsa]

Yes! Great analogy.

[@thothheartmaat2833]

i used to do door to door weather damage roofing sales.. i would get peoples insurance companies to pay them thousands of dollars for a brand new roof.. people would screw me over and say well i appreciate you making a 5 minute phone call.. i just got you thousands of dollars in five minutes and you "appreciate" it... thats just what people are like.. hey can i pay you 5 dollars an hour? good luck not dying bud.. ok pull yourself up by your boot straps man.. yeah ill just generate 200,000 minimum for a house and 30,000 minimum for a car from all of your thoughts and prayers..

[@gerihenry2261]

So helpful, thank you so much for all of your knowledge and advice. And thank you for doing it all so professionally!

[@bigclarke09]

This is really helpful, thanks for this. Hope to learn more about the business side of photography. I’ll try to do some more reading/research on this. I’m into landscape, but still. Every bit of info and advice helps.

[@blubravery]

Love this. And you are correct. Too many photographers would rather put money in gear than education then wonder where the clients?

[@payamjirsa]

Agreed!

[@kullumphoto]

Best buy will most definitely dislike this video lol. They thrive on upselling on things you do not need

[@payamjirsa]

Hahahahaha!

[@aaronjerrells9134]

Thank you so very much Pye. I value your opinion sir. This was so helpful. Happy New Year and God bless you. Aaron

[@moramino]

TAKE THAT, YOU HAVE JUST BEEN PYED!

[@kreygscott]

DAMN! My Persian Ninja. Why are you not running for President? You ALWAYS seem to have such an awesome and realistic handle on all things Photography. Imagine what would happen if you ever went into politics! One of the reasons I’ve been following you and buying your courses is the great way you explain and go into detail that makes them so easy to learn. Definitely a must share man! Thanks for another fantastic what the F video man. PS when are you going to kick Lee Morris ass again?

[@payamjirsa]

Haha, I'm not one for politics, but maybe a podcast? ;)

[@kreygscott]

@@payamjirsa Seriously Pye, that's a great idea.

[@keithkreatives]

Pye, I agree wholeheartedly with all you've said, as you'll find in my other comment. However, I probably commented too soon before thinking "wow, you really don't need to respond to every negative comment". I learned a long time ago that when entering the digital and social media world with a business, the number one rule is to not chase down every bad comment and be very careful about responding publicly when you do. In the end, it makes you sound less confident and your response will be picked apart just like your initial content. Engaging in a debate with those viewers is essentially picking a fight, especially in a day and age where people don't want to own their words and admit they're wrong. 90% of people can read between the lines. Probably at least 50% or more aren't even reading the comments. Sometimes it's best to just ignore the naysayers and move on.

[@evocati6523]

The point of the video was to address the points made in a few comments. And he touched on a FEW comments. Relax, no fights were picked

[@geronimo5537]

I think you missed the point being made evocati

[@PaulCarterama]

Hell yes!! I'm setting up my studio and this video started so I let it roll. Best damn video on this subject today. IMO spot on!

[@culturalaspects5173]

Hi Pye I've only been doing photography for a few years, it about time photographers raised there game. Great video. Thank you.

[@ThisDudeTrippin]

**USING THE COMPARISON OF CARS** If cars have different proce points because they provide something different for every car on the market, then why should photographers be any different? You're buying into the experience of having the photographer serve you and be involved with whatever event they are snapping pictures of

[@thebelly925]

Seeing this in 2024 as a new photographer. I’m about to retire from my first career, and this is immensely helpful for getting started. Thanks so much!

[@MammadAliyev]

I loved this video more than previous one. You explain same things in both of them, but it seems that you became more emotional after reading comments. This made second video captivating! Thank you for all your videos anyway. I've learned a lot from you since 2016 I guess

[@vincevenom3377]

You're in my opinion one of the best to explain this process/understanding. I'll definitely keep watching and trying to implement these practices. Rock on!

[@TechnikMeister2]

My brutal answer is that the weddings market is saturated. Forget it. Landscapes are a dead end too. Unique portraits, howver is fine. I charge $1000 to $5000 per shoot that usually only takes a few hours. Hire of studio equipment is extra.

[@LuisGabrielPhotography]

Excellent video. I'm going to rethink my current approach based on your information!

[@payamjirsa]

Yes!

[@romiemiller2485]

When I was in high school, a friend of my parents was a geologist. I mentioned that the market was saturated with geologists. He said yes, but it doesn't matter because there's always plenty of room at the top.

[@lexiecataldo]

Thank you! I’m so tired of hearing salespeople not telling people their rates upfront because it tells me that they are either too high or hiding something. The idea of holding it back and want to take more of my time to teaching me the value of why the prices are high before showing me their rates tells me that they think you can’t afford it to begin with. This attitude immediately turns me off and I can’t give them the time to listen to their sales pitch then-kind of like those Marriott Hotel tricks where they want you to come in and waste your 2 hours of time for a free trip or whatever. If I can’t see the rates upfront, I look up websites that will show me.

[@michaelkramer4741]

Yup, I realize this is 3 years old, but it is classic. Doesn't even have to pertain to photography. Pye, keep cranking out this sort of info. It's just pure business and I find it invaluable. Many Thanks....

[@keithkreatives]

So much truth here in what I call "charging what you're worth". I am a professional landscaper by trade. It's an oversaturated market ten fold beyond photographers. As he debated the bullet points of the one commenter's negative opinions, I saw so many parallels. I will echo what he said about "know your clientele" and aim for a better quality client. Offer something that makes you stand out from the crowd. I'm just now approaching the pro route of photography but I will say that it has to be similar to my business in that half the battle is, 1. Showing up, answering calls, responding to questions in a timely manner 2. Be professional. Don't dress like a slob. Don't speak with crappy grammar or ramble. 3. Be confident but also personable. When you've nailed these things, DONT undersell yourself! Charge higher prices and be confident in that. Don't sound skiddish when telling someone a higher figure. Be willing to walk away. I PROMISE for every one person that turns you down, 3 more will pay what you're worth and not even question you.

[@ThreeCeeProductions]

This is good advice. How can you price if you don’t know what service is expected. Easy to have a conversation about what their idea of the perfect photography services for their particular wedding would be.

[@davidcarman4733]

If you don't at least try to do some discovery, you shouldn't be surprised when a huge misunderstanding surfaces. Also, when you build value, you're in a better position, relationship-wise with them, when or if a customer service issue arises.

[@Fexone718]

Ty ty ty ! This has me looking at it differently ! Again ty

[@mikasuvanto9895]

Okay i am bit late with this video but funny thing is that when photographers complain that customers run after prices or try to get lowest price. Same time photographers go trough 100 shops around globe checking where they get memory cards, lens, flashes etc cheaper and cheaper... So it is normal human nature to try to find prices what are suitable our budget.

[@vladilas]

I cant't find the facebook group. Is there a link somewhere? :)

[@josephhummel6200]

I went and ordered a Ford - guess how much I paid? I've built and remodeled houses - guess how much I paid? What is the photo of a friend/relative that passed away worth? How do you compare the laughter, joy or tears captured in an image that forever mark that person in someone's memory to a vehicle purchased from a multi-billion dollar multi-national conglomerate? What is the MSRP of the memories you cherish? Priceless.... then the hard job photographers have is putting a dollar value on something that has no price. As a wedding photographer when I got married I paid another photographer their asking price and he was very well known, he said he would give me a deal and I said no... I'll pay what you charge. And every time I see those photos I am transported back to an incredibly happy moment - captured by a very talented and happily paid photographer. Photography is the only time machine you can buy.

[@pm_davidjones]

It's a lot like beer. The tavern by the tracks will sell you a bottle of miller lite for $1.75. The club downtown will sell you that same bottle of miller lite for $6.50. You're not paying $6.50 for the beer, you're paying the $6.50 for the better experience.

[@blonko86]

Pye, I think Jerry Ghionis would agree whole heartedly with everything you said here (granted I don't know him personally), but to be successful he said we should be solid business people that do photography. Not the other way around. Great video, you've given me much to think about.

[@timfuchs1927]

Thank you Pye. I just subscribed to your annual service and have found a ton of value already. I appreciate what you are doing.

[@payamjirsa]

Thanks for being here Tim!

[@pancholini]

Photographers usually have a really hard time understanding business abd valuing their own time and that's why people take advantage of them. But this is not a new thing and this is not only in the photography business, it happens in every creative business. Creative minds are not cut out for sales. I better call myself a business man with a camera over calling myself an artist (and have no money). A business needs solvency, not only making a profit. And usually people never take into consideration other expenses involved in the creative process. Couldn't agree more with you. Photography (portraiture) is a luxury and it is not a new thing, it comes from a long time ago when only kings and queens could afford to have their portraits done.

[@jamesparish7234]

@pyejirsa I have a question: What about Potential clients that only want to talk via Text...they don't wanted to talk on phone. How would you handle that type of client. James Parish Photography

[@payamjirsa]

I'd say don't spend a lot of time there. Get them the info they asked for, then cut them loose. Spend your time on the people that value and respect your services.

[@jamesparish7234]

@@payamjirsa i got cha...it does seem like the younger age group Under 30 ... wats to engage via text... Do I see what your saying ...If they really interested they would call...PERCEPTION...Thanks

[@gottago9824]

you earned yourself a sub with this video. great advice!

[@romiemiller7876]

I had a sales manager for a car dealership tell me to go find out what the had on their lot and come back and talk to him. He then walked away from me. I walked out and bought a new vehicle at another dealership. l Too many photographers: When I was in high school, I thought about going into a very crowded field. Someone in the field said, "True, it's crowded, but there's always room at the top". Be better than everyone else both in photography, print quality, and service. Service is a biggie.

[@timd4524]

If you walk into a Bentley dealer, you're not really caring about price. The comparison to cars is ridiculous. Cars are mass manufactured. Photography is not.

[@carlosenriquez2092]

There is a niche market in film photography particularly studio portraits. I never do more than one shoot per month. My average sale is typically four thousand usd. I have no web presence all my clients are referals. My last client was a 45 year old gentleman who was running out of time and wanted his portrait taken old school. I took the pictures on 120 black and white film the poster sized prints where amazing. Remember anyone can take a picture but not everyone can steal a slice of time and hand it over to their clients. If you don't know what your art is worth then you will end up in a bargain bin somewhere.

[@pattenger4688]

Best advice I've heard is if you are cheaper and trying to bring people in so you can get more experience, list your prices. If you are expensive and provide a luxury product, met with people and talk price later. This makes it sound like if you have a good camera you shouldn't tell people your price which might limit business. Not listing your price adds another barrier to a deal so you better be able to provide a product worth that extra step.

[@MaxxS46]

I don’t know how you had the patience to answer all those off based, erroneous and dumb question. It’s not complicated, cars are items, we provide a service, they don’t compare. Every photographer is different.

[@joseph1172]

I do urban photography as a hobby and lately have had people wanting to hire me for urban portraits. The problem i don't know what my value is. I have been charging $100 for an hour session at location portraits. I love photography but I don't want to short change myself. Any tips?

[@latexlieutenant]

Unbelievably helpful and insightful. Thank you so much to Pye and the team!