Smart Trainer Buyers Guide: Wheel-On or Direct Drive?

[@jandercito]

User of direct drive trainer since one month. More than happy with it. Less noise, better feeling and, of course, smart capabilities are definitively great. Thanks for your videos !. I discovered Zwift thanks to them.

[@kaptngator]

I live in an apartment block, and the noise issue is mainly why I ZWIFT on a Tacx Neo. It is so quiet. I use a retired carbon road bike, so I do not have to take it off other than for maintenance... Thank you for all your tips & tricks, Shane, they are much appreciated!

[@johnhampton7019]

I don’t really care if it’s a wheel on or a wheel off trainer. I just want that Zwift swag.

[@Incaensio]

Being winter here now I've been back on my Neo. Even though it's my third unit now after warranty replacements I can't fault it. It's a better man than I am.

[@barefeg]

what was wrong with the others?

[@asgard69]

does the neo break down every few month considering this is your third one?

[@JamesRoth]

I've owned both. Wheel-on may be 5-10% only if you do set up everything perfectly. Dealing with spin-downs, tire pressure and whatever gets old real fast.

[@gregiboy155]

Thanks for your great job Shane, I just got flux and I hope it will not break down, but now I can ride and take care of my small kids at home same time.

[@thegodofthor]

You explianed this alot better then my brother. Thanks.

[@hngldr]

Didn't think about the family problem when getting my first one as I will definitely be the primary user and as a college student will be away from them other than holidays and summer. Kinda regretting it a little already though - I'll be home for nearly a month and was super excited to show my other family members who I've gotten into Triathlons with me, only to suddenly realize it won't work for any of them as all of them have just 7 and 8-speed bikes, and the height adjustment on my only 11-speed is pretty minimal as is typical of carbon tri race bikes with their aero seatposts and whatnot. I am now seriously considering renting a bike or figuring something out with changing cassettes or SOMETHING to give them a try on this thing because it is definitely a game-changer and I just know I'll tire the subject out ranting to them about how awesome it is when they can't try it. "Show don't tell" and all that.

[@shoerhino]

I really like my snap trainer. When paired with my power meter, I get the best of all worlds at an affordable price.

[@leslie7922]

How is the tyre wear going?

[@sheriemcmanaman2113]

Thanks for the comparison! I just bought a Snap and am very pleased with it.

[@nickrogers6441]

I bought a wheel on trainer as it was the cheaper way to get into indoor cycling. I regretted taking the cheaper option until you pointed out about the different speed cassettes. My wife has different to me. I may just hold out for the Watt bike (that isn't available in North America yet)

[@Cyclingchoice]

If buying non smart/dumb wheel on or direct drive trainers, a wheel on trainer can make use of devices attached to the rear wheel, like a speedo or hub based power meter. A dumb DD (example elite muin) will require additional sensors.

[@voidwalkingcat]

Great. I am using recently bought Tacx Vortex, and it is great. Hope I get a chance to try these guys.

[@waynewatt8483]

have tried both direct drive is the way to go.

[@ericjones9717]

Thanks for all the content you produce Shane.

[@reepsaag]

I just use my old tires on trainer. In combination with slightly damaged rear wheel which is not for road anymore its perfect match for indoor :)

[@MickM]

Great video. Informative and concise as are all of your videos. I’m a Kickr user and really like having direct drive.

[@briandawolfman]

Love my direct drive trainer, the Wahoo Kickr2 is amazing!

[@billdemarais7254]

I've been thinking of upgrading to direct from my Cycleops power sync. My Power sync has worked flawlessly for me.. So will probably stay with Cycleops. The only reason I'm thinking of it is the +ANT FE-C .. For some of the newer riding programs I'm seeing in Beta form right now you have to have that

[@elidouek5438]

wheel on trainers also make great bike workstands! though mine is used more like that than an actual trainer so...yeah

[@billyk2011]

Thanks Shane, love the content. Reminded me to do a spindown before my next ride. Cheers.

[@M0ntaroo]

great video, I literally just bought a wahoo kickr v2, and hoped to god I hadn't just purchased a bad one, but the direct drive seems like it'll suit me.

[@Tom-ed3by]

Thnx for thé reviews Shane, afterparty seeing this video is decided tot buy a Neo, now i can feel the reality at zwift. In thé past i used stages cranks. Thé only thing i miss is a brand new zwift bottle and Blue sweat gadgets 😂🙈

[@ravingcyclist624]

Zwift was BUSY today. Middle of the day on a Wednesday (in Atlanta). Meeting group rides that seemed to go on forever. Riding along you felt like you were in a group ride but it was just people cranking along together. What's it going to be like after everyone gets their Zwift stuff for Christmas? Wonder if Eric Min has ever considered taking the company public. That's one IPO I'd really like to participate in!! 👍

[@TheVelomobileChannel]

One other thing to consider with wheel-on trainers is the minimum wheel size. Last year I was looking for affordable smart trainer for my recumbent bike with 20” wheels. I could find only one wheel-on type trainer with 20” minimum wheel size. All other trainers are with minimum size of 26”. Well ofcourse this is not a problem with standard road bikes, but not everyone wants to ride them 😜

[@sanderdevries5868]

Went from wheelon to direct drive, never looked back :)

[@TheVelomobileChannel]

Direct drive sure is better. But also more expensive.

[@jjesteruk]

Love the videos and Zwift Shane, but who doesn't love free stuff! 😃

[@RamaSivamani]

Consistency is more important than accuracy anyway. For example, if a power meter reads 10% off but it reads a consistent -10% then it is still a useful tool for training. Absolute power readings are necessary for research but for training as long as there is consistency then you can still confidently set up and train in your training zones.

[@gplama]

Only in isolation is an inaccurate power meter any good. If have another power meter, this is a problem. If you change power meters and want consistency, it’s a problem. If you want to compare your efforts to others online, it’s a problem.

[@RamaSivamani]

@@gplama Even then if you do a threshold test and set a baseline for your FTP each power meter then you know what your training efforts will be as a percentage of your FTP you determined for each power meter you are using. Granted this may be more annoying to deal with and if you are using multiple power meter then the greater accuracy makes sense since it makes it much easier to coordinate workouts between different power meters. I only really have one bike that I train and race on and just one power meter since I don't really care about power readings and training on my commute bike. As far as comparing with others online this is true that a higher accuracy allows you do to that more but I don't really care to compare my power readings with other people. The only comparisons I look for is against my own readings to see if I am getting fitter and stronger relative to myself. I'm not saying higher accuracy is bad thing, obviously it is not. However, for most people that are just dipping their foot into power based training may be in a similar situation to me that they are not running multiple power meter on multiple bikes.

[@gplama]

@@RamaSivamani One of the angles I look at this is "Does it do what the manufacturer says it does". And if any power meter isn't within 10% of 'accurate' then the answer is no.... and the product isn't fit for sale and should be returned. The power meter industry is all about self-certification.... and it's the wild west.

[@RamaSivamani]

@@gplama Oh sure I would agree with that, the 10% number I threw out in my intial comment was simply a number chosen at random for the discussion of accuracy vs consistency. With the level of testing and development today I would not consider it is reasonable to say that even the budget power meters should be able to get you to 5% accuracy. I guess what I mean is if someone is an enthusiast who is new to power training I don't know how much more they are going to get out of spending that much more for a power meter that is accurate to 2 or 3% vs one that is accurate to 4 or 5% and is less expensive. Obviously the more advanced you are in your training as a cyclist the more important this becomes. For a top level pro the difference between 5% accuracy and 3% accuracy would be pretty significant. For an amateur enthusiast it may not be. In any case I love that you are using this channel to help people understand more about different options for indoor training, keep em coming!

[@raypeckjr]

Thank you for the insightful videos!

[@darrent71]

Excellent and straightforward summary, thanks!

[@Pierrrrrrrrrrrrrrre]

Direct drive anyday... just to avoid changing wheels/tires or this horrible skipping effect when your acceleration is too quick

[@yvindhorgen6818]

Been wobbling back and forth between directdrive and wheel on. Snap to Flux, back to snap 17. Got a great deal on a Neo, tried that. Sold the Neo with a profit and ordered a Kickr 17. So while waiting for it I am on a simple Cycleops supermagneto and Stages powermeter. All the setups work fine, but using the dumb trainer and stages I find myself thinking that if my budget was limited, I could live just fine with that setup. Works great and no hassle. :) #Zwiftmas #RideOn

[@sanderdevries5868]

Swapped my wheel-on trainer for a direct drive (NEO), never looked back ! :p

[@dennisjones8447]

Great video as always thank you!

[@anthonyheywardCABG]

Excellent Video Shane - Kudos

[@patcodd4347]

Great vid as always! Thanks.

[@thenerdycanadian7172]

i've got a Giant fluid trainer and was using it with Zwift and their Zpower profile for it for the last few weeks. Decided to pick up an FSA PowerBox (basically a p2m Type-S) and magically gained 350W to my sprint (668W to 1019W) and about 60-80W to my "jra" power (80W-140W~). Definitely interesting to see how far off the profile was to real life lol.

[@kiverrussell8369]

TheNerdyCanadian interesting. I used an Elite Crono Fluid for months on Z Power and knew it was giving me watts (the published power curve was bang on for me but Zwift wasn't using that :/). I tested after getting a 4iiii power meter and confirmed, while it was thereabouts at low power, it was giving me 7% either side of threshold and more, up to 10%, at sprint powers. Even then that's as accurate as numerous properly calibrated trainers so looking down on Z power still seems ridiculous. Even power meters can be rigged too so bottom line - never trust anyone zwifting faster than you! :D

[@glasshouse75]

Same here with the exact trainer you mentioned. I was blowing a gasket on that giant fluid trainer and getting poor wattage results ... after one week on a smart trainer I’m amongst the pack.

[@spfunnell]

Do you really think a specific tire for a trainer is necessary? Cheaper just to replace the tire after the winter season. Oh and I’d love some swag just like everyone else!

[@magdaguimaraes9653]

Direct Drive is my choice! Ride on!!!

[@terrellbrown15]

Needed this a year ago

[@ilgour]

I just bought a Wahoo Kickr2, really like it. Coming from a Tacx Vortex smart, its really different. I have to admit the vortex was quite good for the price tough, but its not the Kickr. Good video Shane, love your channel, keep up good work.

[@ianlee3887]

Great video and detail explanation. However which is safer for heavier people? I’m 115kg on a carbon road bike. Appreciate any advise from you.

[@gplama]

Best I can suggest is to check with the manufacturers and their specifications.

[@emilsonreguyal4350]

Hi Shane, I'm currently searching for a smart trainer and I'm eyeing on the kickr snap. My question is, do I still need to perform a spin down on the snap even I'm already using a powermeter? This spin down thing is the only thing holding me back on getting the snap as I'm used to a dumb trainer not doing any calibration before riding on Zwift. Thank you and Ride on!👍 -Emil

[@gplama]

If you're using a power meter as the power source, the spindown isn't important. I've got a video lined up on this in the coming weeks, never enough hours in the day though. Stay tuned!

[@legalady]

Great info! Thanks!

[@kylehaga6854]

Great video

[@jonnywipeout]

Comment for the draw Shane 👍 Serious question though? Can you do a video guide for capturing video off PC screen while Zwifting? which software is best? Thanks 🚴

[@gplama]

Jon - You popped out of my prize draw randomiser as the WINNER! Email or message me a postal address for the pack of goodies!

[@jonnywipeout]

Shane Miller Thank you so much 😊 Just sent you a message 👍🚴

[@GudmannBragi]

Watch every trainer and zwift video of yours. Been on Zwift for almost two years. Commenting to win Zwift zwag :)

[@thenerdycanadian7172]

Hey Shane, i saw a post somewhere a few days ago when looking up trainer tire wear. They were using a strip of electrical tape the whole way around instead of a dedicated tire, might be a cool thing to test to save a decent amount when getting into the world if indoor cycling?

[@gplama]

I have no idea how that'd be any good.... there's a lot of deformation and heat going on at the contact point on a wheel-on trainer. If it chews tyres then it'll demolish tape. However... I'm willing to know more.

[@lazurm]

@@gplama The tape wouldn't hold.

[@Simon-iv2wm]

Hi Shane.... excellent article as always....just wondering if you have had your hands on the Magene Gravet as yet....direct drive at wheel on price...🙂

[@gplama]

No. I'd welcome one into the collection for review.

[@Simon-iv2wm]

Shane Miller mines being shipped to the UK as we speak....will let you know how I get on with it..

[@pickleflicker]

One other thing you forgot to mention is some smart trainers do not accept disc compatible bikes you have to space them out

[@TheCrossroads09]

Concise as always.

[@glasshouse75]

I’ve gone for a kickr snap because: A) It’s my first year as a ‘cyclist’ and I want to make sure it’s not just a passing fad that leaves me with £1000 piece of furniture & B) My wife would bloody kill me because of ‘A’. I’m happy with the snap and I’m very anal about having it setup correctly...spin downs, tyre pressure etc

[@Chris-ox2rq]

Great video! Ride on!

[@LOLMONSTER87]

great advice as always :)

[@M9IN0G]

Are bits of rubber flying off from the rear wheel still a problem for wheel-on trainers?

[@gplama]

Depends on the quality of the tyre and the condition of the roller.

[@hornetluca]

+ - 5/10 % accuracy in wheel-on smart trainer?! 😮 For me it is definitely minus 10% 😎

[@CarlForde]

for the SNAP trainer, I believe it is 3% which is pretty good.

[@lazurm]

The older Computrainer wheel-on unit's accuracy was well within 3%, more like 1-2%. Works with Trainerroad and Zwift also.

[@sevenrats]

@@CarlForde He was joking. minus 10%. get it?

[@erikmerino1898]

Hi Shane, I have a question regarding to Kickr Smart Trainer. Can you connect for example a Garmin 850 via Bluetooth and then use it to control the power resistance (instead of using the wahoo fitness app or the wahoo computer gps). ? Thanks and salutes from Spain.

[@gplama]

No Garmin head unit connects to Bluetooth peripherals that I’m aware of. Only Bluetooth to mobiles for data link. You can control a Kickr via ANT FEC with an 820 and 520 (and 10xx series iirc)

[@a.garcia9815]

The Edge 850 only controls smart trainers from model year 2020 forwards. Now where did I leave that flux capacitor? 😄

[@morenohau]

Nice video... Between a tacx flux 2 and a jetblack volt, what would you recommend?

[@gplama]

Volt

[@emmanuelperez1780]

Hey Llama ! Hi! @shanemiller Do You have any review on a Wheel on Smart Trainer + a power meter ? I don’t think I’ve seen any Yet 🤔 Thanks

[@son200219]

Hi Shane I’m wanting a direct drive turbo for zwift workouts mainly & the occasional race. Which do you recommend. Price point isn’t a issue. Thanks 😄👍

[@gplama]

There's no 'one fits all' trainer, so it depends. This may help: gplama.blogspot.com.au/p/indoor-trainer-guide-gplama.html

[@jamesturner9858]

How would a tire on trainer like the Kickr Snap effect a road tubeless set up. I have a 2017 Giant Defy which came from factory setup tubeless, would it dry out the sealant? Your thoughts would be appreciated

[@gplama]

Zero experience with tubeless at this point in time. That's one for Wahoo or the KZbin brains trust.

[@dioncampbell3384]

Hello Shane, i'm torn between two trainers, the wahoo kickr snap and the kinetic rock & roll, as i'm now getting into indoor training and i need some help in this area.

[@gplama]

Too difficult for me to do any one-on-one purchase consulting. Best I can point you at: gplama.blogspot.com.au/p/indoor-trainer-guide-gplama.html

[@Raptors0524]

Question for everyone. If you had a kickr snap and found a few extra dollars, would you upgrade to the kickr core or keep the kickr snap and buy the kickr climb to pair with it? Decision decisions 🤦🏼‍♂️😂

[@nadir876]

Messing with the cassettes and swapping between my wife and I honestly wheel on is less hastle and more compatible. Full respect to direct drive but wheel on families or multiple bikes!

[@adamrwiener]

Great video, as always Shane! Thanks. A few quick questions. Do the direct drive trainers always need 11 speed cassettes? Current bike has 10 and really don't want to change that. Also, must you have the EXACT same cassette on the direct drive trainer as you do on the bike? Finally, my motivation for switching to direct is to avoid switching out from outdoor tire to trainer tire every time I want to use my current wheel-on trainer. Do you recommend I just leave the road tire on my bike and stick with the wheel on...or invest in the direct drive and not have to worry about that? Thanks again!

[@gplama]

Direct drive is just like a wheel - So if it's 11spd it can take 10, 9, even 8 with the correct spacers. You only need to match the speeds, not the ratios. As long as your chain is sized correctly, and you're not running a 23 on the back outside and a 32 inside, it'll be fine. Wheel on trainer tyres - it depends how many hours you do indoors.

[@NewbArchitect]

On direct drive do I need to have same cassette or 11-32 vs 11-28 both 11 speed as on my bike, if not would I have to get a new chain as well?

[@gplama]

That’s fine. Not a big difference between 28 and 32. As long as your rear derailleur will accomodate the larger 32.

[@NewbArchitect]

@@gplama thank you, I'm running 32t on my wheel so my DR is fine if The trainer is 28t right? Thanks again

[@gplama]

@@NewbArchitect Yep. All good then.

[@NewbArchitect]

@@gplama I actually have a 10spd... Shoot, so I need to get a new cassette then? I also saw someone post they got a 11-32t but 11spd, is that a new thing?

[@gplama]

@@NewbArchitect It's best to match 10spd bikes to 10spd cassettes on a trainer. 10spd with an 11spd cassette will work, but it's clunky and will skip in a few gears. 11spd has a 11-32 cassette option, yep.

[@chrismusgrove5259]

Hi Shane great video as usual 👍 after some help regarding calibration of elite direto wheel circumference size have tried asking elite but getting lots of different numbers am running a giant defy 0 with 700x25c wheel any advice or help be really appreciated thanks in advance .

[@gplama]

What software/head unit are you using with the Direto? If it's Zwift then it doesn't matter.

[@chrismusgrove5259]

Shane Miller I'm mainly using zwift but do have wahoo elemnt that I was trying different numbers with and found 0.173 seemed to be close as anything else was reading 100 mph 😂😂 thanks again.

[@gplama]

Yep. The Elite Direto wheel circumference for head units is 173mm (Garmin Edge/Wahoo/etc).

[@chrismusgrove5259]

Shane Miller thanks for help .

[@manoranjannayak4201]

Shan I have seeing all ur videos specifically I need to pick up a trainer now and looking for ur suggestion.If I need to select the wheel on trainer, price is not a restriction which you will suggest?

[@gplama]

See gplama.com Trainer Guide for a run-down on every trainer I've ridden.

[@lehelbenedek255]

How can I now and find if my bike its good for a tacx neo ???

[@gplama]

Find a bike store with one in stock and take your bike in.

[@lehelbenedek255]

Shane Miller Thanks for the answer but don’t think I find bike shop near by me:)

[@Silidons91]

I got a kickr snap. I wish I got the kickr...

[@danieljansen8795]

You forgot to mention the tire wear off and noise difference, other then that good vid! I Went for the direct drive ;)

[@gplama]

1:12 tyre wear. Noise.... there's quiet wheel on trainers, there's loud direct drive trainers, there's everything in between. So there's no easy answer there without diving into each model.

[@CarlForde]

decision tree: price (have to be able to afford it), compatibility & noise level (have to be able to use it), gradient & road feel (have to be desirable to use), durability (has to last / be worth the money)

[@corymeza4379]

Umm doesn’t the neo come with spacers for 10 spd?

[@gplama]

Yes.... but mine has an 11spd cassette installed and I'm not whipping the cassette on and off on it, it's a pia.

[@corymeza4379]

point well made!

[@markrees6792]

Biggest problem I have is choosing one that's good and reliable. Currently have a smart vortex and want to get a direct drive. After hours and hours and hours of research still don't know what to go for..... Tacx neo has grinding issues, noise issues not working whatsoever issues and basically poor quality control so you could buy a lemon! Then I thought it take a look at the cycleops hammer.... Here we go again... Noise issues, lag issues, wattage dropping off totally and not being accurate. OK then. May be the wahoo kicker. Again reports of noise issues and wattage being way off. Doesn't seem to be a direct drive smart trainer that doesn't have some serious issues in one way or another. I appreciate that all electrical products made are going to have some faulty units etc but the percentage of faulty smart trainers seems to be vastly higher than the rest of the market.

[@gplama]

The joy of Internet forums as a research tool... Simply purchase locally from a shop with good after sales service.

[@damianwillis573]

Consider think rider x7

[@dholmdahl]

Nice!

[@SandDK]

Zwiftmas FTW - Merry Christmas

[@LukaCordedda]

How good would it be to win a zwift bottle ;)

[@Builtforthewild]

I LOVE ZWIFT💙😀😀!

[@b17duf]

“A partridge in a pear tree.....” 🎅🏼 #twelvedaysofXmas

[@Xyrium]

Noise difference???

[@gplama]

That depends on the model. Typically a wheel off direct drive trainer in 2019 is quieter.

[@megahurtz83]

Shane, what would your preference be if you had to choose between a wheel-on smart trainer, or a dumb trainer with a power meter (given the price was equal)? If accurate power is my main concern, should I go with the latter?

[@gplama]

It depends..... I like an interactive smart trainer to liven things up.

[@Leinoja01]

Ride on.

[@nathanielalanmiller5624]

I think my Direto is turning me into a Zwift convert.

[@Neo83]

Direct drive all day long 😉

[@joaoletelier8735]

I thought you were going to compete The loudness of each. I'll keep looking.

[@gplama]

A direct drive trainer is typically quieter than wheel-on. Loudness is also highly dependent on the environment you set things up in.

[@joaoletelier8735]

@@gplama yeah, I've watched a lot of videos on both and I've come to understand that wheel-on is a lot louder. I was hoping to find a side by side comparison in the same video (same environment and same camera/mic) to give me an idea of just HOW much louder wheel-on is (I live in an apartment), as it's hard to tell when you're comparing different videos. Thanks anyway. :)

[@whitestuff10]

Commenty commenty Zwift bidon and stickers comment.

[@YukioBergholdt]

#rideon !

[@M9IN0G]

Has Von thrown you out of the pain cave?

[@ox66123]

✌️

[@paulojteixeiraa]

#Zwiftmas Ride On! :)

[@AaronGale85]

☝️

[@ricoheff]

Ride on!!! :))

[@許嘉宇-y5r]

12 day givaway

[@mimul68]

#rideon 💪👍

[@Incaensio]

If you can't afford a trainer specific tire, clean your tire well and wrap it tightly twice over with electrical tape on the outside.

[@JoelSmithR1]

Wouldn't that make it easier to slip?

[@gplama]

Crikey! Not something I'd do due to head and residue/gum build up.

[@Incaensio]

They actually sell a tire wrap tape for this exact purpose. Electrical tape is cheaper and readily available. I know folks that have used it for years with great success.

[@Incaensio]

Doesn't seem to bother it. Once tensioned properly it works as normal.

[@kiverrussell8369]

Interesting, I've never had a problem with tyre wear on my Elite elastogel trainer, perhaps being resistance via weight on makes a difference? Some people swear by trainer tyres others think they're a ridiculous sales ploy and huge faff. All I can say is my hard wearing Specialized Espoir Elites get over 10k km on them despite plenty of trainer rides along the way. That's a year of riding for me and seems reasonable enough.

[@MrHotpl4te]

Ho ! Ho! Ho!!!!

[@bakeha82]

Can't see why anyone would buy a wheel-on trainer these days.