Smash Ultimate: A CRITICAL Retrospective

[@Delzethin]

Video sources, since there wasn't enough space for them in the description: Misc. - Nintendo Switch Announcement Trailer (via Gamespot): kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4SQYqd6m7GriLM Misc. - TGA 2018 Joker Reveal, Crowd Reaction (QuestionKid): kzbin.info/www/bejne/hmKqk2yoeMyCZ9k Misc. - Sans Mii Costume Reveal, Nintendo NY Store Crowd Reaction (KirbyGCN17): kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZ7EpmCdh7Kllbc Super Smash Bros. (64) - Dino (Captain Falcon) vs. Combo Blaze (Donkey Kong) (VGBootCamp): kzbin.info/www/bejne/eWHWZYVppZiFmcU Super Smash Bros. (64) - Foca (Link) vs. Killer (Kirby) (VGBootCamp): kzbin.info/www/bejne/iWLJnqKuopqoY5Y Super Smash Bros. (64) - Isai (Pikachu) vs. SuperBoomFan (Kirby) (VGBootCamp): kzbin.info/www/bejne/gYm9omCrjaeahrM Super Smash Bros. Brawl - Vex Kasrani (Dedede) va. ADHD (Diddy Kong (VGBootCamp): kzbin.info/www/bejne/j4qwlGeBfNOsidU Super Smash Bros. for 3DS - Smash Run (Greenalink): kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4vGYXqKob-oqLs Super Smash Bros. for 3DS/Wii U - Bayonetta Reveal Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYXZZKpni5qSg8k Super Smash Bros. for 3DS/Wii U - Mega Man Reveal Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4mVfIGvltSBjJY Super Smash Bros. for 3DS/Wii U - Mii Fighters Reveal Trailer (via Eurogamer): kzbin.info/www/bejne/j5WniqJ5ipeerJI Super Smash Bros. for 3DS/Wii U - Palutena Reveal Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqK3iGRpdr6hn7s Super Smash Bros. for 3DS/Wii U - Ryu Reveal Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5zEnaZ5hb2Zl7M Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Acola (Steve) vs. Riddles (Kazuya) (VGBootCamp): kzbin.info/www/bejne/m2XceqmnhrlkZrs Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Anathema (R.O.B.) vs. Jahzz0 (Ken) (VGBootCamp): kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5OxZKl4jJ2le9E Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Announcement Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/rWSqpWdooLuaedk Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - August 2018 Smash Direct (via Gamespot Trailers): kzbin.info/www/bejne/omfIdo2ejtlkoMk Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - “Available Now” Trailer (Nintendo of America): kzbin.info/www/bejne/npy3q3uZfbmWg6c Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Banjo & Kazooie Reveal Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/p6qtZZegn7aCqJI Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Byleth Reveal Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/bJfacp5nhZ2Hgrc Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Chrom Mini-Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/bWSWoGhoZsuVmqc Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - DDee (Steve) vs. ChunkyKong (Donkey Kong) (VGBootCamp): kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZ_YnHuiislpaq8 Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Deathspade (Sora) vs. Riddles (Terry) (VGBootCamp): kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZ7OpKiKZ5ipipY Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Doramigi (Min Min) vs. Zomba (R.O.B.) (VGBootCamp): kzbin.info/www/bejne/amWnomWCmc-lhtE Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - E3 2018 Nintendo Direct Segment (Nintendo of America): kzbin.info/www/bejne/gmqWeWqPeJJradE Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Esam (Pikachu) vs. Cosmos (Inkling) (VGBootCamp): kzbin.info/www/bejne/jp2mlJKMjdKbbqs Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - “Everyone is Here” Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/e4nRk4CmZt6lZ80 Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Isabelle Reveal Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/n5vTZnmbhKqSj9k Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Joker Gameplay Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/jWWzeGynrZ6raNU Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Joker “Take Your Heart” Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/h2jdYoGvZtCWbMk Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Ken & Incineroar Reveal Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/maHYc4GmZ5ydjNk Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - KEN (Sephiroth) vs. Abadango (Meta Knight) (VGBootCamp): kzbin.info/www/bejne/aXvIYqJvhJempKc Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - King K. Rool Reveal Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zl7Kl3ZnqtWgpaM Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Min Min Reveal Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/mny1kKpseJp0a80 Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Miya (Mr. Game & Watch) vs. Kurama (Mario) (VGBootCamp): kzbin.info/www/bejne/npSWg2xjqsqbac0 Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - MKLeo (Samus) vs. Sonix (Sonic) (MaisterGnW): kzbin.info/www/bejne/hpXJdJltpLJknZo Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - MKLeo vs. Sparg0 Squad Strike (Beyond the Summit - Smash): kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqCwkHShrKugeM0 Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - November 2018 Smash Direct (Nintendo of America): kzbin.info/www/bejne/nJTGmHukd7Zjj68 Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Peli (Dedede) vs. SuperStriker (Sonic) (VGBootCamp): kzbin.info/www/bejne/en-ceIeQgZuYotU Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Piranha Plant Reveal Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/d3bFg4N5jaypnpY Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Pyra & Mythra Reveal Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZXKlauXftCIa8k Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Ridley Reveal Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/il7ZaWugetKej68 Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Sakurai Presents Kazuya (Nintendo of America): kzbin.info/www/bejne/n37caXSeacqEbsk Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Sakurai Presents Steve (Nintendo of America): kzbin.info/www/bejne/lYTTZqJnf6-Xes0 Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Sephiroth Reveal Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/gIHblHhnmbKkgpo Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Shuton (Pyra & Mythra) vs. Bernie (Link) (VGBootCamp): kzbin.info/www/bejne/oaPLZJdris6jY8k Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Simon & Richter Reveal Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYfVk56ljLqsf8k Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Skar (Cloud) vs. Ned (Sephiroth) (VGBootCamp): kzbin.info/www/bejne/qX62k5uDrremp7M Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Sora Reveal Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/bmO0Y4uKf52djc0 Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Steve Reveal Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/b2Gtp5iVpryhpsU Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Terry Reveal Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/oqe3XpVrrp6nqac Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Wolf Mini-Trailer (Smash Bros. Official Channel): kzbin.info/www/bejne/j32qY399jp5onJY

[@noahmaybin1781]

Music used?

[@vgrepairs]

Wooow its just never enough for u ppl 😂​@@noahmaybin1781

[@toastyboyproductions8096]

18:35 "wanting a character in smash to play as them has come second to wanting them in just to say they were on the roster" I'm very glad someone else sees this, as i've been saying this since smash wii u/3ds DLC. i swear 90% of character requests have always been followed by "because we're missing that representation" rather than "that character would have an awesome moveset"

[@DarkTaranza]

i believe to be a good character you have to be a mix of both! because smash has always been about fun characters fighting in a fun fighting game!

[@slenderfoxx3797]

Honestly I think there's enough creativity out there to make any vidoe game character a fun edition to smash gameplay wise. It's just that they don't always nail it...but that doesn't mean it's impossible or that next game the developers won't improve the character gameplay

[@toastyboyproductions8096]

@@slenderfoxx3797 i wholeheartedly agree, but the argument I’m seeing is never how they could be fun. Take waddle Dee for example, I genuinely think he could be a fun inclusion, and I also think there could be more Kirby characters, but a LOT of the people that want him in only say that because “he’s the only one missing out of the main 4 Kirby characters”. Which doesn’t make him sound like a fun inclusion, it makes him sound like he’s a shoe in

[@ruffeboi7304]

"We need Master Chief in Smash" mfs when they realize that he would undoubtedly be a zoner:

[@slenderfoxx3797]

@toastyboyproductions8096 yes we definitely could use a 4th kirby character. One to round out the 4 player gameplay we have from the games...although I kind of would like a kirby character that's a little more out there to be included over waddle dee. But I'm not against waddle dees inclusions. Zelda definitely needs more characters. It's nintendo third biggest franchise and it only has 6 (technically 3 since we have 3 characters who are clones both in gameplay and that they're canonically the same character)

[@JJFT235]

I think Sakurai really just wanted to get everyone back. He said it was the dev team’s #1 goal. Whether you think it was necessary or not, it was something you can respect. This was his last thing for Iwata, his best friend. He earned the right to decide, along with his team, to bring everyone back. Did it affect other things in Ultimate? Sure. But they had a goal and they achieved it.

[@mrshmuga9]

It’s a fair goal to attempt. Given it was based on Smash 4, with most of the content there, it was just within reach. If he didn’t take that chance, for all he knows the follow up game would have to be made from scratch like every other game in the series. The time to strike was then.

[@grunkleg.2934]

I know for a fact it was Sakurai himself who pushed so hard for "Everyone Is Here!". He said as much on his YT channel, where he clarified that there were only 7 characters from older Smash games not in SSB4, so he just decided to go all the way. Also props for calling out Smash speculation. Don't expect them to learn though, no one on the internet learns anything

[@shadowednight1600]

Sakurai went above and beyond to get all the roster back and that is a feat I will always be proud of. But I will be blunt: without Break the Targets or Board the Platforms Smash just seems so...quiet. Really hoping a smaller roster will allow more character to shine through in the modes

[@speedude0164]

I don't think hype for new characters is inherently bad; people just need to learn to manage it in a healthy way and hold themselves accountable when their insane hype leads them to disappointment instead of blaming the devs for having the audacity not to put their favorite 3rd party character in. You don't need to spend a whole lot of time on the Internet however to realize that accountability is not its people's strong suit in the slightest.

[@brandonwilliams6119]

@@shadowednight1600Here’s something I would’ve loved regarding Stages, The ability to categorize them by the Smash Games they appeared in on the stage select screen, so it’s not not a jumbled mess and you don’t have to always go through each of them one by one. Also different variations of Battlefield and Final Destination. Say what if I wanted to play on 3DS Battlefield or Melee Final Destination? Basically skins for those stages since we’re already bringing back all the characters. If stages like Momentos and Minecraft can change every time randomly I don’t see how the same couldn’t have been done for Battlefield and Final Destination.

[@HimekoIzayoi]

Do we know who these characters where? :O

[@grunkleg.2934]

​@@HimekoIzayoiSquirtle, Ivysaur, Ice Climbers, Pichu, Young Link, Wolf, and Snake

[@supermaro2349]

I don’t think the old characters not getting a new moveset wasn’t due to time. I think it’s due to Sakurai not wanting to change the movesets due to how fans have gotten adjusted to the moveset. I remember him stating in an interview that he didn’t want to change I believe it was Dr Mario said they kept him the same since he knew players preferred doctor Mario’s distinct moveset. So I think the reason most veterans don’t have new movesets is just cause Sakurai is afraid of alienating old fans

[@darkdoctor1915]

That’s pretty much why I prefer him not changing their Movesets to much, not saying they don’t need any changes, as they often need to, But it’s not completely necessary of course this is just me saying that

[@opadrip]

...Which is still a stupid idea. You're restricting characters out of their full potential because... people might get sad? There's multiple ways around this anyway. Either 1: Don't care about it. If someone gets upset that Ganondorf actually resembles his game instead of being a Falcon clone, they never liked playing the character, they just liked the moveset. 2: Create another fighter to take the old moveset. Going back to Ganondorf, just remake him and give the old moveset to Black Shadow. There, everyone's happy.

[@darkdoctor1915]

@@opadrip, I like the second option

[@supermaro2349]

@@opadrip I agree with that second option as that makes the most sense, but that could also lead to a problem if they don’t pick and choose properly and end up increasing their workload unnecessarily

[@mrshmuga9]

It’s a poor excuse because they’ve changed multiple moves from characters over time anyway. Example, I preferred Olimar’s up-air because it extended further, was a multi-hit, and (based on Pikmin types) could have an elemental effect. Now it’s just a single hit, short distance, and I don’t think it applies any status effect. I think Pikachu’s neutral-air did the opposite, changing from a single-hit to a multi-hit. So how many moves can be changed before it’s considered a “new version” or “unacceptable, as it’ll make fans unhappy”? I’d mention Link too, but that was probably a top-down decision. I miss hookshot, gale boomerang, and normal bombs, Ad I don’t like Toon/Young Link’s stats and size.

[@somebol9047]

I disagree with the take about newer fighters being too complex. I don't think a newer player needs to know the ins and outs of a characters mechanics to have fun with them. Like the Sephiroth example u used. A casual doesn't have to know all that, they probably just have fun with him regardless. "Oh cool, he's stronger now."

[@bearmanjon_bmj]

And it's pretty hard to miss Smash attacks having super armor. And while I agree it is a little bit too ambiguous, the results of the stock formula are pretty self-explanatory. If you're behind, you will get it sooner. If you are ahead, you get it later. If you take a stock, it doesn't last as long. Bro is kind of cherry picking tbh

[@aceofblades1677]

That's kinda what I was thinking. You only have to put in the effort to learn how everything works if you're not okay with just... not knowing. It's really just another example of Sakurai's "easy to play, hard to master" philosophy, isn't it?

[@StoryTeller796]

This is the one criticism about Ultimate I will not tolerate against it. If anything, I would argue that a lot of characters in the game might be underdesigned, and even then, I would more than anything else blame the core game's design flaws on "Joy-Con Drift" because the design of Ultimate is so tight, it is honestly perfect the way that it is.

[@castform7]

Yeah same here. While movesets have evolved over time they still follow a simple philosophy that's easy to understand. Sephiroth's One Wing does have some weird stipulations but nothing that changes the fundamental moveset. A casual player can easily get the basics of the mechanic like how it fluctuates on when it comes out based on how well you're doing and any intricacies can be left for the player to figure out if they wanna get more serious. In this game, I feel like there's only a couple super complicated characters (Kazuya, Steve, Megaman kinda) while the rest, gimmick or not vary in difficulty but still have a good base line. Arsene or the GO meter and the like are outside elements to the moveset that can largely be ignored or aren't that hard to adapt to.

[@ashton5061]

I agree. First off, chances are if you play Smash on and off like that then you probably don't have the DLC. And if you are then it would be the wise call to learn the ins and outs of the character you're buying just because of common sense. And if you're playing online... Buddy that experience is so bad fighting against characters you don't own or know about is the least of your worries lmao

[@Ai-jr4ou]

The complexity of newcomers is overstated. The formula and buffs for Seph wing is not needed unless you are playing competitively. From a casual side: Joker: Fill Bar get strong Hero: Mana, sure it is complex but mana is a general gaming term so people should have a grasp of it Banjo: No gimmick, I guess you can only side-b 5 times Terry: Command Inputs, GO meter, and Back Special. I give this one to you because his GO moves can't be normal input. But his other inputs can just be obtained with normal directional specials. Byleth: No Gimmick Min Min: No Gimmick, just pushes design balance to its limit Steve: I elect not to comment this is the both the most complex and simple character in the game. Seph: Wing, you take damage and get a buff to all your stats, like limit. And a third jump, the conditions to lose it are not needed to understand the character. Agies: Character switch, which is just "hit down b" Kazuya: Terry but much worse Sora: A bit weird having three hit moves with optional continuations but otherwise is normal enough. The only "complex" characters are the FGC characters, and Steve.

[@thisman8568]

I like how you start the comment with "complexity is overstated" then literally say half the newcommers have needless complexity. Pick one. Honestly not really on either side on this one though. The early veterans do feel extremely basic compared to the funny DLC characters.

[@PikaPhantomVG]

Even Terry is the most approachable fighting game character, aside from the braindead playstyle of Min Min. He doesn't have too many inputs and feels more natural to play as than the Shotos with their tilt variants or Kazuya with his absurd move list, in my experience.

[@Ai-jr4ou]

@@thisman8568 The "needless complexity" is what I was pointing out, from the perspective of a new/casual player most of the DLC are simple. The segment on complexity is tainted by competitive bias. The way one wing functions my be complex in its details but if it can be understood as "ommni buff when at high %" then the exact conditions are irrelevant. The reason I said complexity is overstated is because if the complexity is unnecessary to understanding then it is hardly complex. If it was then Ice Climbers would be the games most complex characters by a mile. I will clarify though the only complex character form the DLC is Kazuya. Steve may be weird to a smash player but most everyone has played minecraft so the mine,craft,build system should be familiar to a casual player. Hero, has a resource bar but it is codified by something as generic as "mana" which is a gaming staple. So players will intuitively know cast spell -> use mana, and that better magic should cost more. Lastly, many character's outside of the DLC for this game and smash 4 have a gimmicks of there own. Miis have custom moves, Pit has aerial shield and fully controllable projectile. Mario has a button that fully flips momentum. Robin has weapon durability, Marth has tippers, Roy has the inverse, among others. But I won't be out here saying Bowser Jr. is a complex character because he takes less damage on the cart and more damage if you hit him.

[@dylansmith5206]

@@Ai-jr4ou Speaking of Pit Please somebody just give me some new Kid Icarus characters that AREN'T EVIL DEMONIC SATANIC GAY PIT CLONES (Please just get rid of Dark Pit for Shit's Shake) Give me Hades Medusa Magnus Viridi Phosphora The Eggplant Wizard Ect..........................................

[@scro910]

Bruh smash fans need to stop capping and being overtly defensive about criticism….you typed all that for what? It doesn’t disprove what was said in the video, but you felt the need to cap why?

[@canaldovegaslash1473]

“everyone is here” was Sakurai’s idea, not Nintendo

[@jace.r]

That’s honestly my biggest gripe with this video. He has some fair points but most of them are coated with speculation and untrue statements. Like he took the point that “although everyone is back, the older characters suffer from their outdated move sets” and turned it into “the development team was forced to do this by Nintendo in a short time and were stretched thin, making it so characters and modes suffer”

[@dylansmith5206]

@@jace.r Speaking of Modes Please oh please give me a story mode in the next game that isn't worthless horrific evil demonic trash that's just a worse version of Smash Tour Please give me a story mode that's more like SubSpace Emmisary and is nothing like the garbage that is World Of Light That please just bring back every single player mode from the previous games to where I can have something to do offline as opposed Give me Home Run Contest....... With it being on the console for free this time as opposed to it being hidden behind a PayWall that DSP Gaming would blush at Plus give me Stage Builder on the console for free damn it Give me Multi Man Smash Break The Targets All Star Mode A Boss Rush Smash Run From Smash 4 on 3DS Event Matches Board The Platforms Ect.......................................................

[@jace.r]

@@dylansmith5206 yeah you kind of just said one of the biggest points from the video. Home Run Contest and Stage Builder aren’t behind a paywall, it’s a free update. I don’t even know how you got that idea if you own and actively play the game

[@slenderfoxx3797]

I mean nintendo isn't a person...Sakurai is ninrendo do. Jokes aside I get what you mean I just find it funny the way we talk about companies as if they're one individual person.

[@michaelmenei5403]

Still can't believe it's been 5 years now. Damn time flies... Five years since we'd finally gotten Ridley and King K. Rool. Slightly less then five years since Banjo. And two years since Sora. Arguably four of the most requested characters fans had demanded. It's still crazy to think this game actually exists.

[@belmontzar]

Yeah, before ultimate id kinda given up on seeing my Belmonts show up in smash at all. But then... that trailer hit and.. FINALLY.. MY BOYS ARE HERE...

[@dylansmith5206]

Speaking of K. Rool I still hope that the next Smash game keeps in the next Smash game That please give me these DK characters in the next Smash Game Give Me Dixie Kong (SOMEONE MAKE HER A PLAYABLE CHARACTER ALREADY DAMN IT) Cranky Kong Funky Kong The DK 64 Crew (Lanky, Chunky, Tiny) Lord Fredrik From Tropical Freeze Stanley The Bugman Ect...................................................

[@sirkingpinmonroe4439]

The fact that Sonic STILL doesn’t have any new remixes since Brawl still bothers me to this day.

[@vanessasandoval96]

Not even a single character of Sonic like Knuckles Tails or Shadow

[@squallleonhart9387]

Also Green Hill and another Green but curvy, even in Smash there’s Green Hill oversaturation.

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Sonic is due several characters, but it seems like Sakurai doesn’t respect the franchise enough. People asked for Eggman a lot, especially after Sephiroth which no one saw coming and is still the biggest Wild Card pick for Ultimate, there’s also the usual Tails, Knuckles, Shadow and occasional Metal Sonic request. But if it were up me I’d love Amy in Smash as another Wild Card pick, basically she’d be a slightly faster Dedede but not as fast as Sonic lol. Another one would be Blaze since she has Fire Powers and yes I’m already aware of Incineroar being our Fire Cat, but he’s more of a Wrestlemania Cat lol.

[@jacobtidwell8869]

@brandonwilliams6119 I don't think it's that Sakurai doesn't respect the franchise enough, it's just that he and Nintendo seemingly want to focus on adding brand-new 3rd-party franchises in when adding in guests, rather than double-dipping with old ones. Sure, there was Ken and Richter, but they were quick and easy Echoes. Then there's Sephiroth, but I'm gonna be honest, it feels like the only reason he got added because of how terrible Final Fantasy's representation was prior to his inclusion, whereas the Sonic series was represented pretty well and didn't need another fighter to "fix" it. If Ultimate launched with a proper amount of Final Fantasy songs and spirits, I doubt Sephiroth actually would've gotten in as DLC. Sephy wasn't the standard, he was the exception. And adding onto the "people asked for Eggman a lot, especially after Sephiroth", the DLC had already been decided at that point. They weren't just going to randomly add Eggman to FP2 after requests for him increased once Sephiroth happened, because they were already working on Aegis, Kazuya, and Sora for those later spots.

[@kirbykirisame1366]

I think that’s because SEGA has some kind of restriction in place where only musicians they approve of can arrange Sonic music officially, and that they will own the rights to said music. That’s why the Angel Island remix from Brawl has appeared on Sonic music CDs and games like Mario and Sonic 2010 and Sonic Origins.

[@kirbykirisame1366]

I completely agree with all the points here. The fact we don’t have a standard All Star or Boss Battles mode is absurd, and World of Light is just Spirit Board with extra steps. With the design of newcomer movesets, sometimes it feels like they come up with a gimmick to make a moveset around first rather than choosing the character to use. Having these super unique concepts makes the 64 and Melee veterans feel extremely archaic. I can still see people argue about what characters are worthy to join even though there’s no more dlc happening. Bandana Dee is a topic of violent arguments seemingly every other month, with people calling him a “goomba with a hat,” despite him being the Kirby series’ Luigi as of Forgotten Land and the fact that we have a generic Mario enemy on the roster already.

[@squallleonhart9387]

Heck some of the DLC characters are so complex or broken they can even break the rules of Smash, the “Pay2Win” saying remains true even in Smash.

[@castform7]

I am of the opinion that Smash has too many characters for All-Star to not feel like a slog but an option for it wouldn't have hurt. Also, don't remind me of "Goomba with a hat". Piranha Plant's existence should be an indicator that even the D list celebs can get in if they're fun enough.

[@bulletcola7890]

I somewhat disagree with your point around simple and complex characters, considering of how we have a lot of "Simple" characters in the roster, and even then the "Complex" ones are relatively simple in vacuum when you think about their kit as a whole with few exceptions (Like Steve). Hero for example is literally just "Resource bar dependent character" and that's kind of it outside of his RNG down B.

[@Nighterac]

It's ironic because the same community wanted Captain Toad (back when Smash was about Nintendo and not gaming as a whole) and many were expecting Slime to be the playable fighter instead of Hero, because of this weird rule where the DQ heroes couldn't be depicted as fighting or something, I don't know it was stupid. But somehow we still cross the line at Bandana Waddle Dee, lol

[@mrshmuga9]

Ya there’s a bit of an over reliance on gimmicks. It can be neat, but it gets to be a bit much. I like Piranha Plant, but reminder that no one actually asked for it. So you can’t hold that against people if they don’t want Bandana Dee. I’m not against common enemies (like Magikoopa), but I’ve played BD in Kirby games and just find him boring. I’d rather have virtually any other Kirby character because they’d be more interesting visually and moveset wise. Heck, I’d take an FE spear user instead just because they’d be able to pull of more types of moves with human anatomy. You can only do so much when you’re a nearly limbless ball. Kirby at least has a lot of copy abilities to pull from. BD can’t exactly do any unique gymnastic-like moves with a spear when he’s just a ball, and it wouldn’t be very readable with how stubby his limbs are and how close they are to his torso. He doesn’t even have arms/forearms and legs, he just has hands. I know they don’t care for one-off characters, but the girl piloting the mech from Robobot would be infinitely more cool and interesting than “ball with stick”. As much hate as Plant gets, it still has more unique to offer. BD’s unique trait is uh… throwing 3 spears. A disjointed hitbox or even long-distance attack isn’t new.

[@Novum228]

Mario has a long history but he seems like he was designed to ONLY be a starter character, rather than, you know, a Mario character.

[@murderman7265]

His own brother and girlfriend have more unique and fun movesets than him lmao.

[@sheridan5175]

I dunno I think he plays more authentically like that A move set can easily become crowded and unfocused when you start cramming as many references in as possible.

[@jacobtidwell8869]

@@sheridan5175 That's certainly true, but you can certainly add more references without going overboard with them and still keeping a character simple and beginner-friendly. Mario in Smash doesn't need to go full Mega Man and have every single one of his moves be a reference, but he feels so lacking in references that he feels pretty bland in lots of areas. I mean, come on, the latest reference in his moveset is F.L.U.D.D., which came out over two decades ago.

[@Novum228]

@@sheridan5175 there are still simple changes that can be made to Mario’s moveset. For example, he can wear the buzzy shellmet during his up smash, or make his aerial jab the mid-air spin, or make his up throw the up-kick from Super Mario World. He could even turn into Fire Mario during his Final Smash (if the devs decide to keep that abomination) since the Fire Mario alt got removed

[@sheridan5175]

@@Novum228 but why? What’s the point? In what way is a shelmet a part of Mario’s identity? Stuff like that is what items were made for. Shoehorning it into the move set would be incoherent.

[@bulletcola7890]

I don't really understand your "Newcomers are becoming too complex" argument, especially since we not only have enough simple characters in a huge roster, but also some of the "complex" characters aren't even difficult to pick up due to having a good baseline that follows the fundamentals of Smash's design well, with the exceptions being few and far between, possibly for the sake of variety in its roster.

[@thatoneXman]

Just a note: I recall Sakurai himself saying on his channel that "Everyone is Here" is never going to happen again for the reasons listed here. Just thought that was worth pointing out.

[@waheedabdullah6371]

My only complaint is that they don't put descriptions in the spirits just like they did with the trophies gallery from previous games. And I wish we got to see spirits of all the fighters' final smashes (example: King K. Rool's Blast-o-Matic where we see the laser beam and DK Island explosion)

[@vanessasandoval96]

Yeah like how Waluigi and Shadow are still assist trophies even when they rejected Rex and Spring Man

[@ZoruaMaster]

I like how there's a website dedicated to giving descriptions for Spirits in Ultimate

[@poptart9162]

This is the part that upset me the most. Of course, traditional trophies would be ideal, but I would’ve also gladly taken a smaller spirit count if they all had descriptions with them. That museum aspect of Smash is one of its best qualities, and it would have been great especially with the crossover that was Ultimate.

[@metachop7444]

what's it called?​@@ZoruaMaster

[@-lord1754]

What site? ​@@ZoruaMaster

[@unbind_all]

I agree strongly about the toxicity in Smash speculation. In fact, I have a recent story on the subject: I’m subscribed to a fighting game KZbinr who just a few days ago released a video that details a scenario of how he would cut half of Ultimate’s roster and replace all of them with newcomers. The only major rule was that new Nintendo characters, Echo Fighters, guest characters, and Echo guest characters can only be replacements for those categories. I usually respect this guy’s reasoning, but in this case I thought some of his choices on all ends were baffling. Keeping TEN of the eighteen guest characters, some of which were explicitly to keep their fans happy, but dropping several characters like Diddy Kong, Yoshi, and Olimar on the basis that they just aren’t as popular as characters, and several replacements that either felt like appeasing long-time requests (like Geno and Skull Kid) or didn’t into consideration the cuts he made (adding in Dixie Kong and the Pikmin Rescue Corp when he took out Diddy and Olimar). I don’t hold much contempt against him for his picks, since he said he considers the video a thought experiment more than actual speculation, but when I commented about the weirdness of the choices made, I got a handful of replies that I thought were evidently intoxicated with the hype factor. Stuff that downplayed the importance of some of the characters he cut, or attempted to justify adding more guest characters. These comments were met with pushback of course, but it’s evident that people are still expecting the next game to go bigger and better, which really doesn’t bode well for the future.

[@jakobthomas1926]

People who want to replace Olimar with (insert other Pikmin character ) clearly aren't fans of the franchise. Aside from the Pikmin themselves, Olimar is literally the face of the series. He's the only character that appears in all 4 games, and the plots of all 4 games heavily revolve around him. Replacing him would be like replacing Samus Aran with a Federation Force Trooper

[@mr.penguindrewmateo8146]

Let me guess you saw Thorgi’s video

[@unbind_all]

@@mr.penguindrewmateo8146 Yeah. I wanted to avoid saying the name just because I don’t want to give him any unwarranted flak for his choices regardless of how I see them.

[@darkdoctor1915]

Well I disagree with the majority of the video outside of some of the newcomers, that does not mean I hate his content in general, in fact he probably has my Favorite types of videos from him being the fighting game retrospective

[@mr.penguindrewmateo8146]

@@unbind_all Understandable I just commented that because I just happened to notice your description matches his video

[@emberthefox4951]

One thing that I feel also came with the "Everyone is here" objective and DLC overflowing with hype is a classic curse: Jumping the shark. Smash may perpetually be on everyone's radars, but it's impossible to make the next game as exciting as this one. The roster size is unsustainable, we already have a ton of the big picks in Ultimate, hype already spiraled to a point where the community began infighting, and the precedent Ultimate set for Smash as a series means that people are going to be upset if the next game has less instead of more. The next game needs to dial back, but doing so would damage the playerbase both directly and from the collateral of the upset hype beasts.

[@DeCryptid23]

While I agree with nearly all of your points, I would never by any stretch of the imagination say they went too far with the faithfulness and creativity of the later characters. The entire reason I and many others play the game is to play as vastly different characters from a multitude of series showing off what makes them and the series they come from unique. Movesets of certain characters alone have drawn me to their games and series, and their many quirks and touches keep me playing them in SSBU. While I definitely agree that the balance patches really should have been handled better as certain characters traits make them too powerful or frustrating to fight against, this game was designed to be a fun crossover platform fighter that draws people in with characters and series that they know. Having the characters feel as close to their source material as possible is why I want to see them in smash in the first place. Sonic and Ganondorf and miserable in this game because they hardly feel like the characters they're meant to be.

[@dylansmith5206]

Speaking of Ganondorf Please just get rid of Ganondorf's Plagiarized Captain Falcon moveset and just make him a full fledged sword fighter with him having magic attacks like Dead Man's Volley That plus please make it to where Sheik and Zelda are just switchable characters next time Plus please get rid of Young and Toon Link (Unless you give Young Link a different Moveset that's based on Majora's Mask with him having the Transformation Mask, Don't bring him back at all) That plus Please give me some new Zelda characters in the next Smash game Please give me Skull Kid From Majora's Mask Impa from Ocarina Of Time Ghirahim From Skyward Sword Wolf Link and Midna From Twilight Princess (Plus give me Zant) Tetra From Wind Waker (With her not having the exact same moveset as Link or Shiek or Zelda or other characters on the roster) Ravio (Plus Yuga) from A Link Between Worlds Vaati The Champions From Breath Of The Wild (Revali, Daruk, Mipha, Urbosa) Agahnim From A Link To The Past Ect........................................................................

[@Novum228]

Ganondorf has bothered me in the more recent games. I only know who he is because of Smash (I wasn’t into Zelda at the time) so I always thought Warlock Punch was an ability he had in at least one of the Zelda titles.

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Y’know it’s funny how Thorgi’s Arcade made a cut and rebuilding of Ultimate and now Deltzthin comes out with this a few days later, I’m not complaining I just having a good rant about Ultimate’s glaring issues.

[@castform7]

Ganondorf still being a Falcon semi clone is stupid. Many people have said to just give his role to Black Shadow and have Ganondorf actually be fully Ganondorf. It sucks that just cause they were crunching for Melee's release date, Ganondorf is stuck with a result of those constraints and can't stray too far away because "we can't alienate the player base".

[@dylansmith5206]

Speaking of Ganondorf Please just get rid of Ganondorf's Plagiarized Captain Falcon moveset and just make him a full fledged sword fighter with him having magic attacks like Dead Man's Volley That plus please make it to where Sheik and Zelda are just switchable characters next time Plus please get rid of Young and Toon Link (Unless you give Young Link a different Moveset that's based on Majora's Mask with him having the Transformation Mask, Don't bring him back at all) That plus Please give me some new Zelda characters in the next Smash game Please give me Skull Kid From Majora's Mask Impa from Ocarina Of Time Ghirahim From Skyward Sword Wolf Link and Midna From Twilight Princess (Plus give me Zant) Tetra From Wind Waker (With her not having the exact same moveset as Link or Shiek or Zelda or other characters on the roster) Ravio (Plus Yuga) from A Link Between Worlds Vaati The Champions From Breath Of The Wild (Revali, Daruk, Mipha, Urbosa) Agahnim From A Link To The Past Ect........................................................................

[@waffleman8053]

Ultimate spoiled us to an unhealthy degree. A game so hyped up that its marketing overshadowed the actual game. I remember around 2020/2021 it felt like you couldn't go anywhere without seeing someone talk about who next for snash. You'd see "X character for smash" in basically every gaming showcase, whether it was relivent to smash or not. Everyone hyping up the next smash reveal, hoping it will be bigger and hyper than the last one. The vocal voices of every characters fanbase constantly explaining why there character NEEDS to be in the game. How they would right some wrong of smash while downplaying other characters to prop their character up. Expectations blouted to such an unhealthy degree that if you dared to want something other than the top most wanted characters at the time, you were basically shamed by the loud minority. I honestly wonder how Ultimate will be seen in a decade. Will it still be seen with these rose tinted glasses because of the marketing. Or will it be seen more negatively as the same as the last few smash games. The series future is stuck between a rock and a hard place going forward. Speculation is in a limbo between wanting Ultimate to get updated forever, and everyone is here becoming the norm. (Which is unhealthy) Or the other extreme, which is breaking the series down and rebooting the roster. (Which some people take too far) Well, at least now people over the honeymoon faze and are more open about the flaws of Ultimate.

[@squallleonhart9387]

I find it funny how Nintendo cornered Mario Kart and Smash with those huge rosters of courses, stages, characters and bringing back all that old content, the next games will be an objective downgrade no matter what. Can’t wait for the shitstorm heheh.

[@Kollieprime9]

I think it’ll be look back on fairly fondly, it’s ultimately a fun game with what is likely going to remain the biggest roster ever or at least a long time and on a very successful console

[@FedoraKirb]

I think the problem with more complex fighter design is less the mechanics themselves and more the mismatch. I think it’s ok for some fighters to be more complex than others, but there’s a certain point where the gap between someone like Hero vs DK is too much. We don’t need every fighter to have Command Menu-levels of complexity, but the Ultimate DLC in particular make it very obvious who’s been here since the N64 and Gamecube days. Also, of all examples of complex characters, you chose Sephiroth, who’s One-Winged mode is only slightly more complex than Lucario’s aura. The casual player doesn’t need to know every under the hood detail to enjoy it, they just need to know that Sephiroth sometimes gets stronger when he falls behind.

[@JadeiteMcSwag]

LOL hero vs dk

[@superflameking03]

I wasn't there for the initial reveal of the DLC fighters for Byleth through to the end as I was off the internet for a time. It's so sad to hear that the fanbase allowed themselves to get so destructive.

[@opadrip]

I'm glad the fandom was called out. When i called the Smash fandom toxic back then, they brushed me off like i was crazy. Look where we are now, threatening others or berating eachother because they wanted Waluigi or Bandana Dee.

[@FedoraKirb]

The loud toxic minority do not represent the entire fanbase. I feel I see more people calling out the Smash fanbase for being toxic than those actual toxic fans. That part of the fandom should absolutely be called out, tho, don’t get me wrong.

[@MildlyAggressiveOni]

I agree with thinking the next Smash game should be a reboot of some kind (be it soft or otherwise). The constant "hype train" of Ultimate was exhausting, and I personally was let down by the focus of 3rd party characters in the DLC. (For a while I had hoped they would've done 1 last fighters pass with just exclusively 1st party, and was disappointed they never did.) However, I don't think Nintendo could really top the mass hysteria this game brought, so I ask why should they? Personally, instead of focusing on newcomers, I hope that a new entry will instead focus on revamping the moveset of older characters, especially those from 64 and Melee. Edit: And don't even get me started on the lack of content outside of basic battling, or trophies.

[@PoyoWildHookyRestCakeRokuYon]

I support this statement. 💯 overhyping ultimate, and the ultimate 11 (smash ultimate's dlc fighters) is extremely dangerous and draining. A reboot certainly makes sense for this franchise.

[@SheezyBites]

The Sephiroth wing is just a buffed rage mechanic, a mechanic tgat is purposefully obtuse so that casuals can do cool things without understanding it. If you want to play in competitions you have to learn all that stuff but for new players they'll just be stronger for a bit and probably not question it. I agree a lot of the newcomers are over complicated, but the example you chose doesn't make much sense.

[@BigBossMan538]

TFW Sephiroth is a more balanced character than Steve and Kazuya

[@JJFT235]

I think when it comes to hype and speculation, you can’t really expect Nintendo and Sakurai to ask people to lower their expectations. They want to surprise people. Even when they made specifics of what’s going to be presented from them, some people still overreact or speculate too much thinking that Nintendo and Sakurai would troll them. Sakurai likes to tease or make jokes, but he’s not one to intentionally mislead fans. In the end, it’s on us to hype responsibly. We should have some common sense.

[@7Zealot]

This is probably the most well-reasoned video on this topic I've seen. Thank you for not just blindly gushing over the cast, and mentioning the lackluster side content. It helps me be less frustrated over the topic, seeing there's at least someone out there who feels the same way. You definitely earned a sub.

[@erickmaverick3128]

Okay, time to rant. That last bit at 14:35, RIGHT THERE. That's what left a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to Ultimate and Smash to an extent. The community and everyone in it were so hyper focused on wanting their characters, and ONLY their characters, that anyone they don't know or like gets lambasted to hell and back. They even have the nerve to gatekeep other people's characters saying they're "safe" or "predictable", when they beg for the same ones over and over again. As someone who supports 1st party picks, underdog choices, and lesser known stars, this hurts. I became reluctant to even share my wishlist to anyone that isn't a close friend of mine, because God forbid I share it with fanbase and not get expected to get chewed out with comments like "Where's X?" "Where's MY characters", when I'm not even interested in them in the first place. Also, "Who wanted this? Nobody asked for this!", like they represent the community as a whole; comments like these are the reason why it's considered spoiled in the first place. Don't even get me started with the fact they're never satisfied. Six of the characters were fan demanded, yet to THIS DAY they still lose it over at a handful they don't even play, much less like that take up a small fraction. Y'all know who I'm talking about, the Aegis and the FE reps. Gotten so nasty, the Smash community kept picking fights with the FE community, and eventually the Xenoblade community as well. Hell, I remember when before Byleth was ever revealed, Nintendo sent out a tweet promoting Three Houses. The comments were filled with Smash fans going berserk, screaming at Nintendo not to add Byleth in Smash. (So much for that.) Fast forward to now, it's at the point where they seemingly don't want Nintendo characters in the game anymore, with the exception of Waluigi, Geno, Bandana Dee, etc. Just strictly 3rd party picks. They want Smash to become a Mugen game. Long story short: The speculation scene really taken a toll on Smash Bros. The community slowly gotten greedy to the point it became unenjoyable. All the more reason why I'm dreading the next Smash game, no matter what form it takes. If you're reading this, lemme drop you a tip: You're allowed to ask for any character to be in Smash; just don't be an ass to anyone who wants someone different from you. I'll keeping repeating myself if I have to. OKAY!! Rant over!!! (Had a lot of pent up energy making this. Sorry about that.)

[@Knirfish]

If people are so fed up with the Smash fandom, why do they still engage and participate in it?

[@erickmaverick3128]

​@@Knirfish They have friends there who aren't part of the loud minority. Despite the community's flaws, they still mingle there.

[@radiantwolf9724]

Thank you! You just took the words right out of my mouth

[@erickmaverick3128]

​@@radiantwolf9724You're very welcome. Somebody had to bring up that issue, might as well be me. 😤

[@windindi2834]

What's crazy is that Smash doesn't feel like a Nintendo game anymore. God forbid I ask and request for a new character from Nintendo, I'm sure to be burned alive at the stake.

[@LizardKingRequiem]

Tbf, you have to go online to learn literally ANY character, thats just how fighting games are, you need to use the collective knowledge of the community to learn the intricacies of whatever you want to main. Hell thats like, every game ever rn, idk if you can hold it against anything cause theres no real solution to it, you cant list every lil detail of the characters and their frame data and all that in the game itself. That would be worse it would confuse them more and its always subject to change every update

[@BaselardFE]

The hype cycle culture was so obnoxious and toxic 😭Not to mention people were far too ready to shit on other people for just being happy when their favourite characters got in. Fire Emblem and Xenoblade fans were fighting a war I tell you.

[@Supersonic37838]

Trust me we were about to start WW3 when min min got in. 💀

[@erickmaverick3128]

As someone who enjoys both FE and Xenoblade, I can attest. Folks these days take one glance and say "EW!! Anime RPG Swordfighter!!", or whatever nonsense comes out of their mouths. 😒

[@jefffan1992]

Lack of extra game modes killed the game early for me, my sister and I was big fans of boss rush and the All-Star Mode of 4, before that was Brawl gaving us a Adventure Mode that we enjoyed because it was a neat story mode involving all the characters interacting with each other, I also miss the smash 64's Race to the Finish, Target smash, and Board the Platforms during classic runs.

[@dylansmith5206]

Regardless Please give me more single player modes in the next game Please throw in Race to the finish Break The Targets Board The Platforms A Boss Rush Mode Plus give me Home Run Contest....... With it being on the console for free this time as opposed to it being hidden behind a PayWall that DSP Gaming would blush at Plus give me Stage Builder on the console for free damn it All Star Mode Event Matches Multi Man Smash Smash Run From Smash 4 on 3DS Plus give me a Story Mode that's not a worthless version of Smash Tour (Please give me a story mode that's more like SubSpace Emmisary) Ect...............................................................................................

[@RawPiece98]

I mean... The only thing I'll say about the boss rush mode. They technically provided that with Sephiroths Classic mode

[@dylansmith5206]

Speaking of Boss Rush Please someone make it to where we get the mode in the next game Plus please give me a a story mode in the next game that isn't worthless horrific evil demonic trash that's just a worse version of Smash Tour Please give me a story mode that's more like SubSpace Emmisary and is nothing like the garbage that is World Of Light That please just bring back every single player mode from the previous games to where I can have something to do offline as opposed Give me Home Run Contest....... With it being on the console for free this time as opposed to it being hidden behind a PayWall that DSP Gaming would blush at Plus give me Stage Builder on the console for free damn it Give me Multi Man Smash Break The Targets All Star Mode A Boss Rush Smash Run From Smash 4 on 3DS Event Matches Board The Platforms Ect.......................................................

[@haydenlee3293]

I'm still confused by the Grinch leak all these years later.

[@UnwishedWolf]

Smash fans when a new popular character gets in and NOT some side character of a Mario Game that hasn’t been relevant in over 20 years. Jokes aside, even if they tried to be “realistic” the kinds of characters most of the bad Smash fans would speculate would still be somewhat insane to think. Some of the time it wouldn’t even be from a game they actually played, but GOD FORBID Byleth gets in despite the fact that Three Houses is widely regarded as one of the better Fire Emblem games in the franchise, and one of the better Strategy games to come out in recent years. But no, let’s add Geno, that side character from a Mario game that 50-70% of the people requesting for him have never even played. (I mean the original, because the remake came out when the DLC waves were over already.) I was still in High School when Byleth was revealed and I was still in the middle of the third playthrough (Silver Snow, after Verdant Wind, and Azure Moon respectively for my first two playthroughs) and all I got to see was MOST of my friends just trash on Fire Emblem as a whole (even though there’s a high chance Alear would be likely to join Smash, should they reveal a new game). It really sucked to see tbh. But I have noticed and am glad that MOST of them have mellowed out in the last year or so. Me, I just wanted 2B since NieR: Automata is one of my favorite games ever.

[@dylansmith5206]

Regardless If they make another Smash Bros game Just make Byleth and the other FE characters a skin for Marth and have Marth be the only FE Character in the game No offense But putting a ton of Anime Waifu Dating Simulator Emblem characters in Smash Bros is not going to get me to buy a ton of FE Merchandise/Games If anything NO MORE FIRE EMBLEM CHARACTERS ADD IN MORE DONKEY KONG CHARACTERS ADD IN MORE KIRBY CHARACTERS ADD IN MORE ZELDA CHARACTERS THAT AREN'T MORE EVIL DEMONIC ZELDA/LINK/CAPTAIN FALCON CLONES AND COME BACK NEXT YEAR

[@MrGameguyC]

We're at the Old Married Couple phase.

[@R_wir3]

I'm still amazed they didn't add any new Kirby and TLOZ characters since Brawl

[@PoyoWildHookyRestCakeRokuYon]

Same

[@fabmanosaurus4795]

Agreed on Zelda especially given it's Nintendo's 3rd biggest franchise (At least revamp Ganon if we're not getting new characters) but Kirby lacking modern content has been a consistent pattern since base Sm4sh, all 6 stages are from Sakurai's games & bringing in a newcomer would entail a home stage from a game after Air Ride which he refuses to acknowledge beyond Final Smashes & spirits. At this point he should admit modern Kirby will never get characters, stages & remixes as long as he's directing, that along with the insistence of keeping outdated movesets are why I think Ultimate should be his last Smash game, he's had a good run but I feel like Smash is stagnating with him in charge.

[@banzaimarten9114]

since Melee for Zelda - i maintain that there is no meaningful difference between Short Link and Short Link (With Large Noggin) this might be biased cause Zelda's my favorite game series, but i've always felt like its presence was terribly lacking on the roster. like yeah i joke that Fire Emblem is just eight Marths, but at least for them that isn't literally the case; we've got three Links, two Zeldas, and a Ganondorf that was visibly an afterthought and still sorta feels like one

[@Supersonic37838]

Give banana dee the respect he deserves!

[@PoyoWildHookyRestCakeRokuYon]

@@Supersonic37838 preach!

[@tardissins7512]

Point 2 is one I think not enough people make. Recent characters started to not feel like smash characters anymore. It started with 4’s DLC. Every character became a gimmick character. It became unfun to play against them. Edit: oh, and with the fighting game characters, it made it feel like when playing as or against them, you weren’t playing smash. You were playing street fighter, or king of fighters, or tekken. It’s a self-destroying design choice, in my opinion

[@tardissins7512]

@@ialc it’s not difficulty, it’s that it feels you’re fighting against/playing as a gimmick rather than a smash character. There’s varying degrees of course. Banjo, Byleth, and Pythra feel the most like *smash* characters in my opinion.

[@flame8786]

I’m gonna be honest, I want a majority of the characters in ultimate to be cut for the next game, like over half, with minimal 3rd parties, so that the next smash game can focus on having good mechanics, great character design and balance, and making a game that people can love outside of the characters inside it.

[@HimekoIzayoi]

Imo 3rd parties should be restricted to just one character per company in the next game.

[@mrshmuga9]

@@HimekoIzayoiThat doesn’t really solve things. Is that one per publisher (Capcom) or one per IP/studio (x1 Street Fighter, x1 Mega Man, etc).

[@HimekoIzayoi]

@@mrshmuga9 One per publisher. So say, Capcom only gets Mega Man, Namco only gets Pac-Man, etc.

[@mariustan9275]

​@@HimekoIzayoiThat seems way too restricting and could take some of the fun out of it. I understand the roster cut to focus more on good gameplay but also why limited to one per 3rd party publisher? That seems too limiting.

[@dylansmith5206]

@@HimekoIzayoi Speaking of Mega-Man Please someone................. Anybody............... Give me some new some New Mega-Man characters in the next Smash game Give me Proto Man Bass Dr. Wiley Sigma Zero Vile Ect.............................................

[@squallleonhart9387]

>Ryu had a novel gimmick >Ken is understandable, can actually have a SF2 match 1:1 >Terry was just right >Kazuya oversaturated the gimmick Funny how in only two games Sakurai ran the fighting game character gimmick into the ground but he never tried another Ice Climbers tag team. Kat & Ana, Plusle & Minun were perfect candidates during Brawl's development cycle. Also Sakurai never re-explored Diddy & Dixie partner mechanic and yes I’m aware of Rosalina & Luma and Duck Hunt in a sense.

[@jacobtidwell8869]

He did want to try another Ice Climbers tag team in the form of Rex & Pyra/Mythra, but the Switch's hardware wasn't strong enough to handle it, and we just got Aegis instead. Which was a huge shame for us Rex fans. That bait-and-switch reveal trailer absolutely _devastated_ me.

[@castform7]

I actually had an idea for Plusle and Minun a while back to make them stand out as a tag team. What if they were always holding hands (y'know, cause they're basically the mascots of Helping Hand) and their normals could just be them taking turns using each other to hit other players. Example, their Forward Smash could be Plusle swinging Minun like a bat but they would switch positions to where the next time they used it, Minun would swing Plusle. There's no actual difference in power based off which Pika-clone is using the other, I just thought it would be cute.

[@cashordeals3672]

I mean to be fair have you seen the sh÷t Kazuya can do in tekken bro was gonna be crazy in smash some type of way 😭

[@dylansmith5206]

Speaking of Diddy and Dixie PLEASE SOMEONE JUST MAKE IT TO WHERE DIXIE KONG IS PLAYABLE ALREADY DANG IT Plus please bring back Diddy, K. Rool, and DK in the next Smash game Plus please give me these DK characters in the next game Give me The DK 64 Crew (Lanky, Tiny, Chunky) Cranky Kong Funky Kong Lord Fredrik From Tropical Freeze Stanley The Bugman Ect....................................................................................

[@mr.penguindrewmateo8146]

As someone who hasn’t played a smash game or any real video games, seeing all these comments on this video almost feels like I popped a bubble that not a lot of people popped. From talking about the toxicity of the speculation to people wanting less 3rd party characters and more reworks on old ones it feels like I watching someone talk about why they don’t enjoy a toy as much as they used to. It almost feels like these people grown up from ultimate hype era and want improvements more so than 3rd party characters. That being said this is coming from someone who isn’t a big smash fan. I just wanted to give my perspective on the comments on this video. (Which I hope no one takes something I said from this comment the wrong way)

[@finaldusk1821]

It's a fair perspective, but this is the internet so someone WILL manage to take it the wrong way. It certainly seems to me like a lot of fans of the game have been living in a bubble for a tad too long, and that popping it with a smaller, less-hyped direction for the series could do its community some long-term good.

[@GreenNova4444]

There's a lot to be said about Ultimate's Pros. But in recent years, there's more to be said about it's Cons. And I don't think there were a lot of things I disagreed with you on in this 'Essay', Del. Smash holds a special place in my heart, and I truly enjoyed the ride that it was. Sure, I didn't get Shovel Knight, but at least I got Byleth, Sephiroth, and the Aegis. (The first three I may or may not have overreacted). But, at the core of it, I'm more of a bystander when it comes to Smash and its hype-cycles. I could dream up the 'Truly Perfect/Truly Ultimate' experience all I want, but no single Smash game will ever be perfect. Maybe the next game, whatever that looks like (Refer to my comment on Del's previous video on that subject for my thoughts on that), will do more to keep expectations subverted if possible, whilst still being a satisfying experience for fans of all types.

[@garden6008]

If Ultimate gets a Switch 2 Port, I want special orders to return with roguelike mechanics.

[@dylansmith5206]

And I want A story Mode that's more like SubSpace Emmisary from Brawl and less like whatever the Hell World Of Light was I also want a Boss Rush Plus I want this stuff Give me Home Run Contest....... With it being on the console for free this time as opposed to it being hidden behind a PayWall that DSP Gaming would blush at Plus give me Stage Builder on the console for free damn it Give me Multi Man Smash Break The Targets All Star Mode A Boss Rush Smash Run From Smash 4 on 3DS Event Matches Board The Platforms Ect.......................................................

[@trickywickbow5536]

@@dylansmith5206another subspace is something I’ve always wanted Unfortunately we got a glorified spirit board I definitely think you could improve with the gameplay

[@LimitlessXform]

I will agree that the Smash Community is pretty toxic when wanting new Characters & yea, Too Much Hype can lead to a massive disaster in begging for this and that or etc. Also I do agree that the lack of Game modes in ultimate are kinda disappointing :(. like Break The Target, Smash 64 Race, Smash Run, All Star Mode, Boss Rush, Subspace Emissary, & others. Thankfully tho I actually Manged to find a way to play Boss Rush in Ultimate without forcing to play as only sephiroth. (P.S) With Ultimate Possibly being the last smash game to have all of these characters here, I don’t feel like waiting to see & hope they make a Subspace Emissary 2. So I’m just writing my own big story. All the Brawl Veterans (Including Myself) Knows The Best Part of Brawl. But Overall This Video has some valid Points that completely Nails on the Issue with this game now & How a Soft Reboot for the next big smash game is needed for the fans to not be so overly Dramatic with all the reveals & characters in this game, Threatening others over a certain character that got in & etc.

[@kingnewcomer2029]

It is a shame how Great Fray Smash Brothers Special ended up having so many problems by the end despite its OVERWHELMINGLY success both critically. Also disappointing how fast the game wrapped up its balance patches after Sora's official launch, and I mean EXTREMELY fast. Now, this is just me, but, personally, I don't think bringing back every pre-Special veteran fighter was inherently the issue why the game lacked so many side content at launch both new, and old, as well as having only a half-dozen non-clone newcomers at launch compared to Deluxe's 8 newcomers, and 8 clone newcomers, and balance patches being inconsistent, but rather, all of that was done in such an extremely short amount of time that Sakurai, and his team had hardly enough time to address any of these problems, and even then it still didn't help them much even over 3 years later after the final update. The infamous pandemic only compounded said problems even further. Had Special been revealed at E3 like before, and was released say around maybe Winter 2019, or even Q1 2020 (that, and the pandemic didn't happen), I think it could've given the Smash devs a LOT more time to focus on content that could be available at launch, along with more newcomers for the base roster, AND more opportunities to update veteran movesets that GREATLY need overhauls, not to mention more balance patches to try, and even out characters that have become either too buffed, or too nerfed. But, as is, the game's stuck in this very weird, unfocused, purgatory mess, and it'd be such a damn shame to just see all of the potential that Special could've had if things gone differently go to waste. And while I think a port of the game is unfortunately mostly impractical mainly for all the licensing agreements (looking at you, Square Enix, and your stinginess of licensing agreements), I do still hope it can still get a second chance of some kind before Smash 6/7 truly begins. Regardless of what Smash's future awaits, another solid video, Delzethin! 😄 Maybe you could actually make a future Smash video on how Special could be ported over to Nintendo's next gen console, or any other way the game could be given another opportunity to truly be something, well, SPECIAL, and not just for roster history! (Oh, yeah, and the Smash community had been SUPER toxic throughout Special's DLC, it was beyond absurd.)

[@InsaneStar7]

Sakurai has a problem with nostalgia that he doesn't want to alienate the fans by changing the movesets of the characters that people has gotten used to it, but also unaware that repetitiveness is also alienating that most fans in general wants the old characters to be revamped like Ganondorf like his true source material in his games instead of a clone of Captain Falcon. It's better for his mind to take a sacrifice of that so the characters don't get stale over and over instead of being the same in a different coat of paint. The better question.. who are these fans who want to keep the old moveset? The competitive or casual fans? If your answer is both, which is worse than the other?

[@mrshmuga9]

Well the real problem isn’t even how anyone he or fans feel towards it, but development time. Is Nintendo wiling to sacrifice adding a new character that could draw in a new crowd, just to revamp a character that already exists in-game? How many more people would buy Smash Next because Ganondorf is authentic to OoT than if they added Master Chief? They’ll likely go for the latter (in principle). Unless we get to the inevitable reboot where a lot is changed and that alone is what sells it as opposed to volume.

[@dylansmith5206]

@@mrshmuga9 Speaking of Ganondorf Please just get rid of Ganondorf's Plagiarized Captain Falcon moveset and just make him a full fledged sword fighter with him having magic attacks like Dead Man's Volley (It won't kill a few hardcore players to re-learn Mr. G's moveset and how it works) That plus please make it to where Sheik and Zelda are just switchable characters next time Plus please get rid of Young and Toon Link (Unless you give Young Link a different Moveset that's based on Majora's Mask with him having the Transformation Mask, Don't bring him back at all) That plus Please give me some new Zelda characters in the next Smash game Please give me Skull Kid From Majora's Mask Impa from Ocarina Of Time Ghirahim From Skyward Sword Wolf Link and Midna From Twilight Princess (Plus give me Zant) Tetra From Wind Waker (With her not having the exact same moveset as Link or Shiek or Zelda or other characters on the roster) Ravio (Plus Yuga) from A Link Between Worlds Vaati The Champions From Breath Of The Wild (Revali, Daruk, Mipha, Urbosa) Agahnim From A Link To The Past Ect........................................................................

[@waheedabdullah6371]

I can't be the only one who wishes Custom Moves were brought back and gets to used them to fight gamers around the world. Along with custom final smashes

[@almondjoy4938]

You are not alone. I was essentially creating my own custom roster with the Customization options in Smash 4. Spirits are a poor replacement in my opinion.

[@LightningStarSC]

Just don’t have them as random unlockables that can end up being repeats and have a poor drop rate. They’re a nice idea, but Smash 4 didn’t implement them as smoothly as they could.

[@mrshmuga9]

I think if they did, to (try) and prevent it from getting ridiculous, only have one custom per special. Faster/weaker and slower/stronger are boring and realistically no one is going to be excited to bother changing their load out for that. Sure, maybe they have to work within the existing animation, but have some sort of different effect.

[@dylansmith5206]

@@LightningStarSC Speaking of Smash 4 Please someone give me Smash Run From The 3DS version of Smash 4 That please just bring back Trophies in the next game as opposed to just leaving Trophies out for dog vomit reasons

[@reeseseater12]

The argument that they certainly wanted to get it out early which is why there’s less new stuff (and reusing previous assets to save time) does make sense. I do think that Sakurai understands the series can’t be what it was next time, that there does have to be some evolution and I think that will come down to retooling the roster and move sets. I get that 3rd party characters can build hype but I do prefer to have a far more Nintendo heavy roster in Smash, I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a great reduction in 3rd party fighters next time

[@cceider]

About the hype: At some point I became tired of smash reveals. I followed the hype cycle of Smash 4 and Ultimate both to the very end. The hype cycle of smash 4 ended with Bayonetta in December 2015, but then about a little more than 2 years later we got into the hype cycle for Smash Ultimate which only ended in 2021. Because of how close the hype cycles were, I eventually became tired of the reveals. I was looking forward to it ending. The last reveal I was hype for was Sephiroth, and it's honestly my favorite reveal. I'm a big fan of Xenoblade 2, Pyra is my favorite character from that game and I really like Mythra too yet their inclusion did not excite me. I was genuinely just out of it. I hope we don't get a new smash for a long time. Release it in like 2030

[@krubbington]

This was a pretty reasonable video, I agree with the points presented here. One of my greatest critiques of Ultimate that you didn't mention is how it eviscerated Final Smashes. They're almost all the same, 6-second long cutscenes now, instead of the wild and creative finishers we used to see in past games. They were made "to the point" at their detriment, and I know that it was done for FS meter to work, but FS meter itself is a fundamentally flawed concept. I hope it gets removed next game and we go back to having wild finishers like in Brawl, because old-style Final Smashes were one of my favorite parts of the series.

[@akramrabaa943]

It's true that there are characters I wanna see in smash that are still absent. But I'll be honest: I absolutely LOVE the hype train. Smash ultimate's reveal trailers are some of the best in the industry. And it's sick seeing how they're implemented in game (even though playing against them can be bs). Accepting before hand that I won't get everything I want is very helpful in letting me just enjoy what's there

[@FedoraKirb]

You hit the nail on the head with part 3. I think the two things that hurt Smash speculation the most were the community at large focusing on the “need” to be surprising and players (and eventually Sakurai) touting the game as the ultimate celebration of gaming. On the surprises front, major characters from long-running Nintendo series were deemed as “boring” picks in comparison to those who would be “shocking” even if they felt out of place. Which is fun in the moment, but a surprising pick does not a better roster make. Like, suppose tmrw Nintendo announced one true final DLC character for Ultimate, and it was, idk, Goku or something. Like, wow, that’d be pretty surprising, it breaks the one major assumed “rule” in Smash speculation, which is exciting in its own way. But five years from tomorrow, would the roster really be better, compared to other characters who would make it feel more complete first? While I hold this opinion on quite a few of Ultimate’s DLC picks, I’m explicitly not naming names to avoid causing the kinds of arguments we should leave behind in that era. As for the celebration in gaming part, it made people look at a character or series being added to Smash as this “great honor that MY favorite series gets, therefore validating MY tastes in gaming!” Or at least, that’s a trap I personally fell into for a bit, admittedly. But like, for a “celebration of gaming,” there is a very noticeable lack of Western-developed representation, as well as non-Japanese Eastern countries, despite many popular genres being born or codified in those regions. Not to mention there being barely anything from the indie scene despite that being where a lot of modern gaming’s remaining goodwill and creativity comes from. And even if it was a (more) complete celebration of gaming, your favorite series not being part of it doesn’t make it any less valuable (though again this point may just be me talking to myself here)

[@landonduncan7128]

I think the main problem with roster speculation/people's reactions to certain fighter reveals is that this stuff largely takes place on the internet. I have seen social media get more and more toxic over the years, just in general. Smash Twitter is a horrendous place where common sense and basic human decency go to die, and it was ESPECIALLY bad when Ult was first released. And another thing: the phrase "nobody wants/wanted [insert character here]" is objectively untrue by every metric. For every character on the roster, SOMEONE wants them in Smash and/or is happy they're in the game. Yes, even Byleth (even though, as a Fire Emblem fan myself, I actually reacted to Byleth's reveal somewhat negatively, partly because they wouldn't have even been my first pick from 3 Houses, but largely because it meant MORE "FE CHARACTERS IN SMASH" DISCOURSE, like what happened with Corrin).

[@erickmaverick3128]

Tell me about it. These guys talk as if they represent the entire community as whole, when it isn't the least bit true. Try being a fan of an RPG character/swordfighter. Good gracious. Now, they're screaming "ICONS ONLY!" whenever speculating on who they want, and it's always the same predictable ones.

[@lk_3099]

People who say Ultimate cannot be topped clearly do not care about the critical quality in all aspects of the game.

[@Breeze926]

Ramps and walls don't even function properly in Ultimate which is a shame considering it has the most stages out of any Smash game, but it's the worse game to play stages such as Yoshi's Island.

[@Supersonic37838]

@@Breeze926 75m:

[@Breeze926]

@@Supersonic37838 That stage is not fun in any game lol. If anything it's best in Ultimate because of ladder attacks.

[@CinnaSwirls]

While most wanted the wildest 3rd party characters possible, I just wanted to play as Slyveon. Yes, seeing Sora get in was amazing, but that amazement died quickly. I don't understand the preference for hype characters, I prefer my favorites, and I don't care if others find them boring. And when I didn't get a cute Pokémon, I wasn't upset. I'm happy for fans of those series who got their dream DLC. I'm not one for speculation, there's no point for me. What happens, happens. I can only make it known what I want, I have little power outside of that. But that's okay.

[@mrshmuga9]

The “hype beasts” just “want” those characters for the dopamine rush. They may not even play that character or even have Smash to begin with. For a variety of reasons it is more likely we’ll get more 3rd party characters in DLC than 1st party, so that assumption makes sense. And obviously Nintendo wants a character that has broad appeal. But as shown with Banjo, you don’t need the biggest character to be a popular pick for Smash. I do wish they did more ballots though, as you could only submit one vote, and interests will change over time. But maybe they have other ways to measure interest.

[@BigBossMan538]

I also got burnt out by Smash speculation. It was annoying seeing everyone insist on guest characters being the only ones that mattered. I was glad to see who I wanted get in, but I have a lot of bad memories from this community

[@azurewarrior2000]

Still find it insane that people got mad over *Nintendo* characters being added to a *Nintendo* focused crossover game.

[@edsterrock]

In my personal opinion, both Smash and the Star Wars fan communities are to me the worst examples of fan communities I’ve ever seen. It’s like no matter what you show off to those fandoms even if it’s a good product, you will never satisfy them no matter what.

[@justinnzamora5366]

What about the Sonic & Pokemon fandoms?

[@edsterrock]

@@justinnzamora5366 tbh, I’m not really involved in those fan communities. I’m just a casual fan of both. But I’m just saying this from my experience of being part of the Smash and Star Wars fan communities.

[@justinnzamora5366]

@@edsterrock Fair enough

[@Kollieprime9]

Can’t say I agree with the fact that it’s some actual negative that characters like waluigi and bandana Dee didn’t make it in It definitely does sting a little that the base game only got 6 newcomers, but acting like it’s a an issue that the dlc didn’t meet everyone’s expectations is silly

[@HimekoIzayoi]

People wanted Lycanroc in Smash? Where? Genuinely curious.

[@erickmaverick3128]

Delzethin wanted Lycanroc. It's one of his favorite mons.

[@PikaPhantomVG]

I did, on the basis that both rock types and quadrupeds don't really have much, if anything, on the roster. Granted, it's a complicated case because of the 3 variants of the Pokemon, one of which is far more bipedal, but I thought Lycanroc would've been fun. I wasn't too bugged about Incineroar, though, as I liked his design to begin with and find him a fun character to play every now and then

[@cactusplushie396]

While I agree with your points I don't think everyone being there made the game suffer as much as you portray. The effort and final product may not be as highly regarded as other smash games but I think it matches them in quality at least on the dev effort side. Completely agree regarding the gimmick characters. Like I love ultimate but I haven't and won't buy the dlc cause they all play so weird. And yeah smash speculation is a whole nether world of messed up. Hopefully nintendo drastically changes around their marketing for the next smash one

[@DiamondDogggg]

Sucks that ultimate is the game with the coolest characters but like, the most unsatisfying gameplay out of all of them. When you look at online or tournament footage it looks like the players are fighting the game more than each other.

[@Henkita2]

honestly, i hope we get 2 smashes for the switch 2, a smash ultimate deluxe at the start, and a soft reboot at the very end

[@JackVGM]

Really enjoyed the video and I agree with most of it, especially the discussion about the community and the speculation about DLC! One point I disagree with though is the "problem" of casual players not being able to understand the new characters mechanics with your example of Sephiroth. I would argue that casual players don't need to understand the exact mechanics of when Sephiroth's wing activates, thats not why they play the game. I do understand it with characters like Kazuya and Terry with their inputs to an extent, but even then casuals can still mess around with those characters and have fun with them, especially Kazuya who has a lot of strong smash attacks. So I don't personally think that the more complex DLC characters would exclude casual players from enjoying them.

[@thunderflame17]

The Echo Fighter concept is a cool idea in my opinion that I wish was explored more. I thought of this idea for a new fighter type: Bond Fighter (classified by ρ, letter of correlation). Hailing from the same game as their base fighter rather than just the same series, newcomers or veterans that are linked to said base fighter by some means (enemy, friend, ally, etc.) qualify as Bond Fighters. (eg. Skull Kid as 22ρ, Ranulf as 32ρ, etc.) Doesn't apply towards everyone, as characters like Fox or Falco can have their own bond fighters despite Falco being a semi-clone. Since Bond Fighters are diverse in playstyle for the most part, characters like Lucina and Chrom can qualify too by being re-worked with a moveset designed from Awakening, thus 56ρ. Simon and Richter would work too, amaligated into one and allowing a new Bond Fighter; Alucard as 66ρ (who was planned initially to be playable). More room for fighters without cutting the roster too much.

[@castform7]

I really love Ultimate, even if I don't play it too often nowadays. It's truly an achievement for the ages and has a lot of fun stuff going for it. However, it's not immune to flaws and I definitely think all these years later, another year in the oven wouldn't have hurt. The single player feels lacking, the online is Nintendo online and there are a lot of little pet peeves all over the place. Honestly, it also just kinda felt like a numbers and size game at some point. We need these big names and anyone else, even Nintendo characters in the Nintendo game are off limits. Like I'll only semi defend Byleth since another Fighters Pass was already announced but still not a smart move to end a 3rd party centric Pass with a first party character. But lambasting Min Min and Pythra purely because they're Nintendo characters is pretty dumb to me. I feel like the idea of "Video Game Hall of Fame" is somewhat accurate but at it's core I feel like it's also just these wacky characters bashing their heads together to see who wins. As long the character isn't some literal nobody like Tatanga from Mario Land 1, they should get a fair shot especially if they have cool and unique moveset potential cause past all the hype, the moves are everything. Just my thoughts.

[@npclucario7005]

I am also hoping for a low key smash 6, one that focuses on improving the movements of older characters, learning from the issues of ult and ideally toning down how many comeback mechanics there are. My mains are probably safe, but I'm not particularly attached to any specific character, as long as they make them fun to me, I'll give them a shot, it just sucks how many of the newer fighters feel a bit overdesigned in a sense

[@Zumikaku]

Oh my god, thank you for calling out the roster hype culture! I felt like I was going crazy seeing how toxic people were during Fighter Pass 2. People would constantly harp on about “deserving a spot” on the roster, and outright celebrate the (supposed) deconfirmation of popular characters that weren’t their personal favorites. Even after Sora’s reveal, the LAST character, it felt like the fans who were really happy with him were drowned out by those who just wanted to mock people whose favorites weren’t chosen. It was just tribalism for the sake of having someone to put down. I only hope that next time fans remember that characters are put in the game to be played with, not as a measure of who’s famous enough to be “worthy.”

[@Nighterac]

Disgusting fanbase. And what's worse is that occasionally their toxicity was even vindicated and rewarded. I always dreaded the Mii Costume reveals because I knew exactly how people would react, since everyone (and including me) just thought of them as deconfirmations.. because that's what they were, in reality. They were just used as a way to point fingers and laugh at said deconfirms

[@pyrocyber5621]

I miss the alternate game modes: Boss battles, Events (seriously if any mode could have been utilized with "everyone is here" it's this), Target Test (64/Melee style), etc. "Spirits" is cool but doesn't feel very rewarding; same with World of Light (which to this day should have been co-op, but i digress...) : p

[@sirkingpinmonroe4439]

Honestly I think the Spirits was a good idea… on paper.

[@Dingus_Mcbingused]

IMO spirits was, customs, event match, trophies, adventure mode and subspace all in one but all of it to a lesser degree

[@dylansmith5206]

@@Dingus_Mcbingused Regardless Please Bring back most of the stuff you mentioned in your comment Bring back Trophies (We need more unlockable stuff in the next Smash game as opposed to extra goodies being hidden behind a PayWall that Phil Burnell would jump for joy at) Bring back Event Matches Bring in a good story mode that's more like SubSpace and is nothing like whatever the Hell World Of Light was (Or give me a story mode that's similar to the Recent NetherRealm Fighting games) Keep Spirit Stickers Just don't make them the only unlockable thing in the whole game

[@darkdoctor1915]

The hype cycle around smash ultimate was really toxic , not just for competitive but mostly for speculation, and consider, not just for competitive but mostly for speculation, and considering that I've been around since smash the speculation era for ultimate, Let me tell you it really gets on my nerves and something I really wish never happens again

[@Nighterac]

Yup that's why I left the community behind for good after all the hypocrisy and toxicity, I ended up not wanting another Smash, period I was not at all surprised to see the allegations later on after the speculation ended, which considering that happened in the competitive scene, imagine the speculation side of things which was even more toxic surprisingly

[@darkdoctor1915]

@rac, I'm sorry about what happened, I wish it wasn't super toxic, especially with people Jumping to Conclusions on who should get in, alongside the Competitive scene drama

[@BigM5304]

Wouldn't surprise me if Smash Bros has sort of a "NatDex" moment in the future, where the next game is gonna cut some fighters, and people who thought ultimate's "Everyone is Here" idea would be the new standard going forward are gonna be pretty upset.

[@vanessasandoval96]

Even if Smash Bros Ultimate was the last game to be made

[@grunkleg.2934]

You should've seen peoples' reactions when they cut fighters from NASB2

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Just watch Thorgi’s Arcade cutting and rebuilding of Ultimate you’ll get a little taste of that fan outcry over certain characters getting cut, spoiler alert. He cut Yoshi and Jigglypuff one of the OG 12 and I think it’s funny seeing everyone complain about those lol.

[@HimekoIzayoi]

​@@brandonwilliams6119I understand Jiggs, but Yoshi? The heck?

[@squallleonhart9387]

@@HimekoIzayoi Yoshi was a big shocker but honestly I feel like Toad really should be in Smash by now. And this isn’t even mentioning Waluigi, Geno, Paper Mario and Pauline which he included over the other cut Mario Characters.

[@TheMissingLink2]

One thing you don't mention is how in all past games Sakurai worked himself to the bone to make sure the games were full of content and optimized. This was the first game where he let the team behind him build the game mostly. That within itself could explain a lot of what you're talking about here.

[@TheMack625]

I am noticing more people pointing out the lack of modes in Ultimate. Upon picking it up in 2019, I saw how there isn't much to do beyond basic fighting. Your theory of "Everyone is Here" taking a toll on the content is viable. I'd like to see the return of Trophies, Smash Run, and Event Matches in the next game. The character movesets is an interesting topic. On my end, I don't see the older fighters as washed-up or archaic; I find it rather amusing how there were liberties taken to stylize them for Smash. With Ultimate's newcomers, though, a good chunk of the DLC have bizarre mechanics and higher skill ceilings; Steve in particular is hard for me to enjoy. Not a deal breaker, however. As for the toxicity of the fandom? Yes, I concur. Speculation for who would join the battle became less fun as time passed. Granted, Smash 4 -- my favorite game -- had some rocky moments near the end of its DLC, but the community didn't get overwhelmingly toxic. These days, there are endless arguments from folks about "stolen roster spots" or too much JRPG reps. It's no fun. Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is by no means a bad game. I have sunk numerous hours into it and even still have loads of fun playing it. I just wish that it offered a little more meat on the bone with side modes and toned down a bit with the hype marketing. Still, it is my second favorite game in the series. Nice coverage.

[@SheikahDaMomo]

If a deluxe version of Smash Bros Ultimate comes to the Switch 2, i hope Smash Run returns! In my opinion Smash Run was the best mini-game in Smash 4! And lastly, i also really hope custom moves returns ( and not just the base fighter roster but also the DLC fighters too! )

[@TheWispGuy]

Even if Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Deluxe doesn't happen, I'd love for Smash Run to return! That mode was so fun!

[@HimekoIzayoi]

Smash Run was super fun. Hope it comes back someday.

[@SheikahDaMomo]

@@TheWispGuy i agree!!!

[@SheikahDaMomo]

@@HimekoIzayoi you and me both!!!

[@KalaamNozalys]

Can confirm that being a fan of discomfirmed/unlikely characters was pretty awful during the whole figher pass thing.

[@MegamanGuy444]

I love Smash, been playing it for 23 years now. I just want Sakurai to be proud of the game he made, and eventually when he retires, is able to send it off with a smile (or get a pupil to train to keep it going). I've liked some titles more than others, but I've enjoyed them all and my time with them. I do obviously want some changes, and my own characters to get in, but I don't try to get negative over anything. I remember Mega Man's reveal trailer like it was yesterday, and I nearly cried over it. Sadly toxic fandoms are nearly impossible to fully get rid of. But I think there is hope for Smash's future, and the community as well.

[@Tylerr_Creative]

Still really weird how Porky got completely ignored despite him being a BIG villain in the Earthbound series. Like his city is in the game, hes kinda in one of those stages but barely, but he doesn't have a spirit or any acknowledgement. I always here people say the Capsule is why but I feel its a weak excuse considering the crafting recipe doesn't include any references to the villain and even now we don't have a spirit for the character. He's one of the most notable characters I'd argue smash forgot. I still remember thinking he'd be a fighter cause of it but nope.

[@Nighterac]

Yup it was a glaring omission, like he was purposefully cut out, it was weird. He didn't even come back as a boss despite other bosses from Brawl coming back in some form, either as returning bosses (Galleom), or as part of final smashes (Petey Piranha)

[@blazed185]

Ngl, I'm definitely guilty of treating the roster like a Nintendo Hall of Fame and thinking some characters don't "deserve" to be on

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Hot Take - Assist Trophies not getting promoted in the same game is a huge missed opportunity altogether, I'd rather not have them at all they’re glorified items which not everybody likes to play with. Not to mention they made half a moveset for Zero, Krystal and Knuckles just to make them glorified items smh, while half assed movesets like Isabelle's got to see the light of the day. Same with Daisy, Dark Samus and Richter being lazy echoes. Also Min Min and Pythra being former Base Game PNGs and getting the Promotion.

[@Nighterac]

To this day I still can't believe Shadow isn't playable, at least as an echo fighter of Sonic as the bare minimum

[@johanguzman2706]

This is the most mature critic video on smash ultimate i have ever watched, as Extreme passion fan myself for this game, you have done wonderful job 😊😊

[@rockowlgamer631]

21:25 I legit thought this was like a DLC for Xenoblade 2 admittedly lol. I remember wanting Shantae in the game really badly because of how fun it would be to play as her, my friend wanted Dante from DMC. While I do wish they would've went with Decidueye instead of Incineroar I'm not too butt hurt about it.

[@wootmasterzorsx]

First and foremost, I want to talk about the Hype Cycle and now it affected me. Waluigi used to be my most wanted character and my favorite Mario character. I had my reasons beyond memes, namely him fitting a goofy villain aesthetic that I absolutely adore from other characters like Team Rocket in the anime or Dr. Doofenshmirtz of Phineas and Ferb. Add on to that me just seeing potential there for Waluigi to be used alongside Wario in a meaningful way, and I had a lot of love for the guy. Sure, I did also find the memes funny, but I wasn’t a meme obsessed gremlin. But then Waluigi was deconfirmed and note how I said everything positive about Waluigi in the past tense, and that should paint a picture where I am now. I basically was bullied for liking a character because some people reacted so poorly to the point I just can’t bring myself to like him anymore. Heck, I get genuinely anxious if anyone talks about disliking the character because the hate on him just got to be too much. All for my former most wanted and for who is now just a character I’m neutral on on a good day. And in general, the hype cycle got too tiresome for me and I basically don’t enjoy Smash speculation at all anymore. All the arguing of who was worthy and all the pointing to third party hype that ignored… you know, Nintendo’s actual characters they owned… made it so the fanbase absolutely lost the plot. I mean, any third party can be in any fighting game if the parent companies want it. But Smash is the only real outlet for Nintendo’s roster since they don’t really dole out their characters for other platforms, mobile games aside. So it very much feels like people forgot this was the Nintendo crossover to focus on just the crossover. And that’s just a bummer, honestly. Like, I don’t want to focus on just the doom and gloom of the roster hype cycle. Ridley was high up for me as a wanted fighter because of how many people told me he couldn’t happen. King K. Rool became my most wanted because Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze made DKC my favorite franchise, and I wanted a Smash reveal to bring K. Rool back in the limelight to potentially set him up for future appearances. Jury’s still out on if Nintendo are planning anything with him (since jury’s still out if DK’s getting a solo adventure any time soon…), but K. Rool is still my favorite newcomer for a lot of reasons. Then there’s Incineroar, as I was one of the few hopefuls for the big wrestle cat, and I was super excited for Incineroar. Incineroar was my starter of choice in Sun and Moon and I just grew very attached to him, as he’s just got a really cool design. I wouldn’t have been too upset if other, more popular picks got chosen over Incineroar, but this one was a “this one is just for me” pick. Piranha Plant wasn’t Waluigi, but he’s funny. Simple as that. In spite of my earlier story, I still have a little hope for Waluigi, for a similar reason to Ridley- people say it can’t or won’t happen, so I’m hard coded to root for the underdog. But Piranha Plant is a damn good pick for being funny. And then, for the last real big hype pick for me- Banjo-Kazooie. I remember hearing all the same arguments that they just couldn’t happen because of the borders between Nintendo and Microsoft. And even if they aren’t a mechanically crazy fighter, they’re just fun to play casually and I’m happy to have them in. Helps their trailer played around with the K. Rool trailer, which made me very happy. I also was happy for Byleth, Pyra/Mythra, and Min Min despite not having played *any* of those franchises. Largely because, quite honestly… I was happy for Nintendo representation, as I mentioned above the DLC cycle made the denial of any first party picks got old FAST. I’m a casual player, so it should come as no surprise my biggest grievances were with fan reactions this time around. I can certainly point to gameplay problems I had like All Star being butchered to the point of not being ANY fun or how I can only do a fraction of what a dedicated Steve main could do with him or any other super faithful fighter, so I’m definitely not getting the most out of many DLC fighters. But, at the end of the day, I still think of Ultimate as my favorite Smash game since the cool stuff it has going is REALLY cool. It’s still a very flawed game in some respects and I can agree with a lot of the critique here, or acknowledge the parts I may just simply not have a personal issue with. But the over all experience is a real solid one that I think did well enough with what it set out to and can hopefully better the next entry by learning what worked and what didn’t.

[@swoopiepoopy1608]

The ULTIMATE problem is that we still never got playable Nintendogs. I cried when Sora showed up in the final announcement trailer instead of a cute little puppy.

[@Supersonic37838]

We got duck hunt

[@TINTEKO]

Ultimate was exciting, but I REALLY hope the next game adds more unique looking and fighting style characters like Waddle Dee, Shantae, Crash etc. I know people liked the dlc fighters, I liked 2-3, but groups of them felt too similar to previous fighters for me to care. Though maybe that's because I didnt play the games some of those characters came from so...

[@RyGoesPOP]

Completely agree, and also, speaking of Smash 6 If it were to be possible, they can simply renegotiate all the Parties to have it pull a Mario Kart 8 on Ultimate

[@mrshmuga9]

I don’t think Nintendo wants to pay that many licensing fees off the top of selling the base game. It was more manageable with Smash 4 because there were fewer (5-6?) and Square-Enix was supposedly a pain, and now you have both multiple SE characters and well over a dozen 3rd parties in general. Maybe they would if they charged $10 extra for the game (if that’s enough), but it’s probably a hard sell. Assuming that they even want to make an “Ultimate 2”.

[@RyGoesPOP]

@@mrshmuga9Well, I don’t see a problem in re-releasing Ultimate I mean it’s not like the Parties involved will have to Renegotiate again, just simply re-release it, add more content, and be done

[@PoyoWildHookyRestCakeRokuYon]

The situations that you have addressed hit the nail in the coffin. Too much hype results in untold destruction! Which is why the smash franchise needs to reboot!

[@scizorzzz]

Another criticism you fail to touch on is the overly aggressive nature and over homogenization of the gameplay. Smash 4 was near perfect IMO (Except the jankiness and sheilds were a bit too strong) and ultimate was made to be more aggressive, probably in response to smash 4 using a 2 stock per game ruleset. I think they overtuned it in that direction. There are way too many attacks with near 0 end lag in ultimate. Most moves are incredibly safe to throw out and the gameplay kind of just devolved into spamming aggro and pokes into stringing off of a lucky hit. There is not as much effort needed for positioning or deciding whe nto sheild and grab (Attack is the ubiquitously best option) Characters move far too quickly now and it makes differences in stages kind of pointless when nearly everyone can cover them so fast. I think smash 4 gameplay with a few additions from ultimate (Stale Rolls/dodge, Directional air dodges, parries, knockback speed) would have been ideal and been a really nice sweetspot for the Shield

[@flaco3462]

god i hate the hype obsession this game brought

[@Nighterac]

It was genuinely creepy how people were worshipping Sakurai as a god

[@erickmaverick3128]

​@@NighteracSo, I'm not the only one who notices that, either.

[@waffleman8053]

​@@Nighterac people got way to Parasocal with Sakurai.

[@jonadams2741]

@@Nighterac I never understood that either I mean you can argue all he can really do is copy and paste that's it, only reason Brawl had a good story mode was because 90% of the game was made without Sakurai he got involved really late. Slapping the word echo's on to costumes is not anything revolutionary in my opinion he's basically saying he can't make a moveset outside of modifying Melee's roster mainly consisting of Mario, Link & Marth, like if he's not going to make Dark Samus with an original moveset just don't make it at all. Sakurai can't revive Kid Icarus, Kirby is successful without him & still after 6 games can't make properly functioning CPU's not bad for a god.

[@luislara9952]

The fans hyping up to a toxic level is so true, really as a fire emblem fan one of the biggest enemies of the fandom (besides another FE Fan) is a Smash fan, because a lot of them hate FE in a very toxic way, treu the game representation is very limited but they overact a lot

[@erickmaverick3128]

They did it so much, that hating FE became a personality trait for them. They pick random fights with the characters and the series just for clout or whenever they're bored.

[@MoebiusX9]

Very strong points. I was especially hoping Nintendo would roll out a balance patch with these new spirit events but sadly not. Also reminds me of the Post-Byleth reveal fiasco and how cancerous it was trying to be on social media for a good while till Min Min, even now I see people complaining. Hopefully Smash 6 handles these issues better, I need some moveset revamps bad

[@emblemblade9245]

The DLC team was already a skeleton crew, they just aren’t gonna set aside devs for balance patches this far out

[@RoboticEdward]

Personally I don't think character choices are changing much by the time we reach the next game. I definitely agree that EiH definitely had drawbacks from the single player side and obviously the death of trophies. However, and I'm not saying we'll ever have another Sora moment since realistically, I don't think anyone will top Sora no matter how much Maste Chief bros want him in, but to get back on track I just think third parties are just part of the cycle now. I think that the reason there weren't as many newer Nintendo characters this time around is simply due to the development gap. Smash Wii U was 4 years before Ultimate, and it came the absolute WORST time to be a Nintendo fan bar none. Splatoon was an obvious diamond in the rough from that era that helped bolster up a brand new IP. I also think it's evident that only a select handful of newer Nintendo games can ever be given an opportunity to be DLC if the time is right seeing as Byleth's inclusion was also for contrast to the others who did end up being added. Astral Chain probably got nothing because like Splatoon, it was brand new and out of the box, which tend to be avoided. Dragalia Lost if you ask me was never an option ever due to it being only a mobile game and how said game isn't available in every country, and is now dead. Ouch. Obviously you can argue there are stragglers like Bandana Waddle Dee should've been in (and I agree as a Kirby fan), though something tells me there's a perception issue with Kirby on Sakurai's end to where HAL may have to be the ones to request his inclusion. Fast forward to now and, damn, there's honestly a decent chunk on the Nintendo side you can pull from besides the token Mario and Pokémon character. I'm talking someone like Ayumi Tachibana having a legitimate shot now that her games not only got remade, but got a WW release and a brand new game to boot as I write this. That's not even to mention talks of people wanting Raven Beak or just wanting the Zelda cast to be overhauled with the amount of games we have available. Hype beasts are always going to exist within this series no matter what regarding big character choices, but I don't think it's *as* one sided now due to what we have in the game now and what new games have released since then. Edit: Plus at the end of the day Nintendo is a business. The third parties bring the most draw and hype and while they have to pay a license, there's definitely a major return on investment with content that's a separate purchase.

[@erickmaverick3128]

When it comes to first party picks, I still think there's a demand for them. Here are some examples: Remember when Astral Chain got a spirit board event? A lot of people, myself included, lamented how the main character essentially got the boot. Or how people are warming up to Takamaru from The Mysterious Murasame Castle in as a deep cut inclusion along with Ayumi Tachibana. Contray to popular belief, we didn't reach the bottom of the barrel when it comes to characters within Nintendo's own catalog.

[@RoboticEdward]

@@erickmaverick3128 I never said there was never a demand for them; I'm just saying that an aspect that gets overlooked when talking about Ultimate's development is what was actually out when 4 came out and what came during and after DLC, and if you give a sharp critical look at what was out and what came in 2016, in terms of BIG Nintendo IP...there's not much. Like I said I think the one character that got flubbed the hardest is probably Bandana Dee, which again I think is just a perception issue with Kirby that Sakurai has. Beyond that though...Mario Party 10? Chibi-Robo Zip-Lash? Star Fox Zero? Again not accounting for surprise exceptions like a retro character, the Nintendo side wasn't that great. You could've maybe added someone from FE Echoes but clearly with "Everyone is Here" being the focus it probably was never in consideration. Now mind you this is just the base roster. When it comes to DLC it's also a bit shaky because the Switch era was still kinda an ongoing thing, and DLC I'm pretty sure was strapped when the decision to move forward with DLC was made as negotiations take months to work out. Min Min and Pythra were clearly put in knowing that there was demand for characters from the series they hail from seeing as Sakurai knew of their existence before the public did. I'm not downplaying Nintendo's own offerings as again, we do have a ton of options especially now, but we can't act like from a general wide gap standpoint, that there was all this variety during the Smash 4 DLC-Ultimate development period as the roster for this game clearly wasn't meant to be a "regular Smash game".

[@GodOfThings]

This is just my take, personally, but I think Spirits as a whole were at best a harmless time waster, and at worst a case of the Smash development team tripling down on a concept that not many people were fond of from the beginning. Ever since Brawl, the idea of adjusting a character's attributes was an interesting one, but it's just not one that was ever anything more than a curiosity that screamed 'this is for casual players'. They tried it again in Smash 4, and while there were some neat ideas at play like custom specials, it still felt like something that wasn't ever going to be part of the core experience. Seeing it crop up for the third time, and seeing how it's now tied to what is basically the only single-player content of note, makes me feel that this is a gimmick that has long overstayed its welcome, because that's exactly what Spirits and its predecessors are: a gimmick, and one that just hasn't stuck the landing.

[@mrshmuga9]

Asking people to make loadouts is always going to be an “out there” addition. Because most players are casuals and they’re not going to care that much. They’ll select a character they know, stick with basically that and not do much else. You can’t really force someone to pick something else because then that would just be the default. I disagree that all attempts didn’t work. People wanted a Melee-esque adventure mode instead, and a lot liked Smash Run and hoped it would return. It’s a fun way to incorporate stat changes without having to relearn a character completely (if it was a loadiut applicable across the whole game). I don’t think new additions like these have to be part of the core experience (applicable in normal fights). I don’t think there’s much you can do to affect the core experience in a major way. Like with any fighting game it’s all incremental things like physical (Smash 4 characters would ricochet off walls more frequently) or mechanics outside characters (like swimming and gliding in Brawl). Which is why I think so many DLC characters have some sort of mechanic attached to them. Because it’s about the only way to change the game in a significant way. But I mean it was also DLC so they can’t really add some mechanic that would affect the rest of the game like “everyone can do a Smash Attack in air” or something.

[@Polley001_]

Allow me to be a bit critical myself but this video comes off as really strange. The main points here are correct but the talking points within them feel very off. I get complaining about Smash being rushed and prioritizing bringing everyone back but complaining about a lack of new Nintendo characters only for your examples to be Waluigi and Bandana Dee? Complaining that the old characters didn't get more faithful movesets like all the new characters only to complain that the new characters are too faithful? The speculation segment feels especially biased and distorted. Who expected every DLC character to be as out there as Joker (that doesn't even sound realistically possible)? And the whole "Smash is a gaming hall of fame thing" is horribly twisted here because you make it sound like its literally just about recent popularity and not about gaming history as a whole. Lesser requested characters like Terry and Kazuya very much continue that idea because are very much huge parts of gaming history. You also make it sound like a lot of the DLC was hated on when really only Byleth got such criticism, the rest were taken relatively well and Pyra/Mythra being used as an example is very odd since just about everybody expected a Xenoblade 2 character in the second Fighter's Pass. Looking at Ultimate critically is great and so are these specific overarching points but the arguments presented for each of them are largely very weak and to me at least felt like it was just hypocritically complaining about your personal issues with it while then simultaneously complaining about others' personal issues with it, rather than things being from a more objective standpoint like the video sort of suggests is the intention.

[@kidd9662]

i feel like u had to have been really active in the community cause even tho people most nintendo fans expected a xenoblade 2 rep a lot of people were still bitching about it especially smash fans who only cared about the big names this applies to terry and even hero and kazuya as lot of casual gamers who didn't know who they were complained about them being irrelevent and "no asking for this" even sora got some hate

[@Bladebrent]

One thing I was always disappointed with were Spirits. Im fine with the fact they're all PNG's, but the effects is what I found disappointing. The effects they grant are either temporary or barely noticable. Its cool some will let you start giant or metal, but those effects dont last long. if you want those effects permanent, you go to Special mode but it has the same stuff from the last game; it doesnt let you mix and match any of the spirits effects. On top of that, Spirits have attack and Defense values which is good for SPIRIT Battles, but not casual play with friends as some of just objectively better. I would've loved to have goofy fights of one player being GIANT and METAL, vs a player thats tiny but with Metal/giant slayer. But nope. The ATK/DEF values actually prevent that from happening. Its extra disappointing if you played Halo 3 back in the day where people made some super fun game modes just using custom maps and rulesets. Sure, the Stage builder has a ton of creative stages, but it could've been even crazier if the spirit effects were allowed to be crazier; if even in a different mode. Instead, spirits seem intended to only be used in Spirit battles which basically wastes all that potential imo. I agree bout the high expectations of smash being a big problem though. I absolutely hate when people say X or Y character "deserved" to be in smash and these people often dont understand how hard it is to get guests to begin with. Its not just Nintendo paying 500 bajillion dollars and getting Banjo but People acted like Smash was a legitimate HALL OF FAME for games. The owners of these characters still need to trust those characters would be handled well and Sakurai has alot of respect across the Game development scene. They trust him SPECIFICALLY to treat their characters well; often because he knew or met alot of these people personally. Nintendo cant just get Crash Bandicoot for the next game because he's a big request. It also doesnt help that im one of the few people who didnt get "their character" in Smash. Granted, I had pretty high standards. I wanted either an Indie character fully playable (not realistic and no, I dont count Steve), or a Fire Emblem that didnt use a sword. Instead I got one that has the weapon circle glued on their kit just so they can say "They dont JUST use a sword so cant be mad~" when it doesnt even represent Byleth's character IMO. I genuinely dont hate Swordies; all the other Swordie/Anime JRPG DLC characters were great, but I would genuinely love a knight-like Spear user or Edelgard in Smash. Now people act like Byleth using a lance for 3 moves is "good enough" and its still frustrating to see people make wishlists for Smash 6 and go "yeah, we'll bring Byleth back cause they represent the wheel."

[@ErrrrkTheOdd]

I do agree with all the problems listed here. While i like ultimate, it's problems were definitely major because of trying to have everyone is here. Even agree with people hyping up dlc characters to such an extreme degree. I was actually shock with how negative the reaction to pyra and mythra were given, since i thought most people wanted a 2nd, or i guess in this case 2nd and 3rd, xenoblade rep.

[@AintNobodyAtAll]

I think that 'communities' or 'fandoms' inevitably become toxic. Instead of a group of people who like a thing and want to make friends with other people who like that thing, it becomes....well, exactly what you describe. Smash is a very weird case because it melds childish whining with hyper-serious competition. You just can't find people who are happy that this thing was made in the first place and just have fun seeing what happens when Link fights Sora without worrying about frame data and attack priority or whatever.

[@Xx_J1NX3D_xX]

Ughghghghhh I just realized that since the next smash game won’t have the “everyone is here” gimmick, dlc spots could be reserved for returning fighters instead of new ones..

[@toowiggly]

To find out how Sephiroth's winged form works, you pause the game and go into the move list. It tells you how all of Sephiroth's special attacks work, how winged form is activated, and the effects of winged form. This can be done for any fighter at any point of a match. You don't even need to know how the winged form works to play Sephiroth properly; you can just play Sephiroth like a normal character and it'll work out fine.

[@Hawkatana]

And barely anyone uses that, especially when most other fighters are easy enough to pick up and quickly understand and said "tutorial" is so poorly-explained.

[@phorchybug3286]

It was... Fine... When it was my only Switch game. But yeah. There was barely that much to do and kinda suffered that fix it later approach.

[@blocks4857]

Nothing has damaged the perception of smash more than people viewing it as a "celebration of gaming history" which isnt even remotely true

[@erickmaverick3128]

I'm starting to miss back when Smash was just a celebration of Nintendo's History. Don't get me wrong; 3rd parties are hype, but I've mainly favored 1st party characters.

[@blocks4857]

@@erickmaverick3128 same. I would sacrifice all 3rd parties for more single player content

[@erickmaverick3128]

​@@blocks4857If anything, I want more a balance between first party characters that need a chance to shine, and fan demanded characters.

[@Nighterac]

It's why people hated Min Min and Pyra/Mythra, because they weren't Crash or Sora. Sora fans got validated by their own toxicity, thanks Sakurai

[@mrshmuga9]

Unfortunately, that approach makes the most sense. We have a ton of Nintendo characters (primary, secondary, and even tertiary). Covering a whole host of franchises big and small, and basically every major franchise has been covered. I’d like some lesser known picks, but they aren’t gonna sell well. Which is why they’ll be relegated to base roster picks (if that), because the game overall changes enough to be a selling point, so the new fighters aren’t as important. Whereas with DLC, the fighters (and their basic stage) are all you’re getting. So it has to be “big” enough if you’re asking people to pay a 2nd time (or multiple).

[@smoothdude77]

The points you make in this video are valid, but I question if you're making them in good faith. I wouldn't see a reason for Nintendo or Sakurai to reconsider Smash's direction if Ultimate sold over 30 million copies, and is the best-selling entry in the series. If anything, they'd (probably) do Ultimate Deluxe if they have a chance to. We don't have to like it. We can be irritated by the fanbase and bad series direction. There'd have to be a compromise on the scale of Ultimate’s scope for Nintendo to shift directions, and I don't think revamped movesets or new game modes are enough since those can be included in an Ultimate Deluxe. We'd have to think more outside the box, and I don't have a single clue on how to answer that. In terms of contention within the community: I don't think it's fair to assume the people with rude or unusual behavior don't play the game. It ruins an otherwise valid argument. It's true that parasitic content creators and online users leech off of Smash's hype, but that's not a Smash-specific problem nor should that be a hill to die on. I believe you and your perception. I really do. But this is different. I believe the majority are casual players who play a few matches with their friends, then drop the game until a new update or character comes out. These people want their favorite video game character, or characters that could be cool to see. Using myself as an example, I didn't care for Byleth or Pyra's inclusions in Ultimate. I like playing as them. Bringing back the transformation mechanic with Pyra was cool. Three Houses has some really good music. But I wasn't gonna play Fire Emblem or Xenoblade because I'm not interested in those games (I say this as someone who mains Roy in multiple Smash games). I don't care to see who they include from those games, and I'd care more about characters from series' I like, Nintendo-owned or not. If you like those games and want those characters in Smash, you're the expert. (Point being) that isn't a jab at you or the games you like, I just have more to say about the characters I like. Overall, I have to disagree with Everyone is Here and character speculation bogging down the experience that was Smash Ultimate. Nintendo knew how to market Smash as a big crossover event, which has always been a core appeal of the series. Whether characters get cut in a new game or not, the popular requests now would still be demanded. And I doubt antagonizing people who get excited about Smash was the right call to make for this video. Instead, we should focus on the appeal of having characters and ideas you'd like to see. I'm skeptical about characters like Alear for Smash because there's a chance they wouldn't represent their characteristics from Engage, and instead give them basic sword attacks with the ability to summon other FE characters to "stand out." Byleth didn't have Divine Pulse or his brawling techniques I've seen pitched in fan movesets. Byleth's moveset in Ultimate was made up to address fan backlash. I'm indifferent to that fact, but I can understand why some people can be annoyed with the team needing to justify Fire Emblem inclusions. I would want Alear's inclusion to best represent their character, but if they don't do that, why would I think about it from an outside perspective if I don't play Fire Emblem? I'd rather trust your insight. I don't think it's a bad thing to want characters for the sake of having them in the context of a crossover game. There could be merit in the idea, even if I don't play those games or care about its characters. At the same time, it goes both ways. I can talk about how cool it’d be to see the characters I want, so I’d appreciate it if you didn’t assume I’m somebody I’m not based on the fact we want different things. I hope I’m making sense. (Reposted it to clean up formatting)