Elden Ring Lore | Dung Eater and The Omen Curse

[@pinip_f_werty1382]

I like how Deathblight is a curse of overwhelming death while the Omen curse is one of overwhelming life.

[@arthurmorgan5335]

And yet all the thorns and horns make the death blight animation and the omens look similar lol

[@pinip_f_werty1382]

@@arthurmorgan5335 and the skyboxs for the curses are similar. What other curses exist? Miquella and Malenia are "cursed", do they relate in any way to this?

[@praisethesun.praisedeussol6051]

@@pinip_f_werty1382 they are polar opposites Malenia is eternally rotting while Miquella is eternally youthful. They are at the extremes of the life cycle.

[@pinip_f_werty1382]

@@praisethesun.praisedeussol6051 Then perhaps the opposite of omen curse is deathblight curse.

[@matteoflamigni550]

A very neat way of envisioning it. Consider that when death was a natural cycle the growing horns (ancestors) were the first sign of rebirth, meaning life winning over death.

[@avraelasgard]

16:15 "These British creatures" Damn, shots fired.

[@SmoughTown]

against myself haha

[@mitchellupagusrex2839]

I was just listening, and had to stop writing and investigate when I heard that lol

[@ThommyofThenn]

1:05 "the omen are not simply British creatures, needing to be culled" 6:12 Behold! Something Incredible! I've been so curious about these mysterious statues. I'm glad that some solid theories about this dude are coalescing.

[@Canaanitebabyeater]

Obviously omens are British, why else would they be reviled?

[@ThommyofThenn]

@@Canaanitebabyeater having nightmares about colonialism

[@valeriob36]

So does that mean the crooked teeth are essentially omen horns?

[@ThommyofThenn]

@@valeriob36 old fangs are inspired by them apparently based on the item description provided by Smoughtown

[@smiley6668]

He says brutish ...

[@mattzgillz]

Your dedication to giving credit to the other lore hunters whose ideas you're citing is commendable! Much respect.

[@SmoughTown]

Cheers Matt! I feel it is important!

[@CalTN]

@@SmoughTown It shows great character and humility. Thanks for your work. I listen while doing my engineering homework.

[@samuelcooper1298]

I’ve actually considered that the Dung Eater is always as mad in his phantom form as he is in his corporeal form (so he’s mad even when he invaded the player as a phantom); but that sending his phantom to the Roundtable Hold offers a sort of relief from the madness so that he can think clearly, like you said in the video. He mentions you should, “be grateful for the Roundtable’s serenity,” otherwise he’d kill you. I think the use of the word “serenity” is interesting because it doesn’t seem limited to just preventing attacking, but suggests a literal pacification and peace that can’t be resisted. The Dung Eater is still clearly hateful and violent in his speech. But he also talks cohesively and even nonchalantly, as if he’s bored to just sit there. But he clearly visits the table for a reason. Why go at all, if he can’t kill and defile anyone there? Going to the hold would be a waste of time. So I think the reason is to just have a moment of peace from the madness. Which even then, he still expresses a strong level of hatred and violence. It’s possible he may just want to be closer to grace, because grace is what showed him his vision of the fell-curse to begin with. So sitting in the grace’s serenity between his defilements would be the most ideal for him to stay focused and plot, like you suggested in the video also.

[@SmoughTown]

Yeh totally agree, it's like when he's in his corporeal form - he's of a one track mind. He always asks you not to disturb his peace at RTH

[@craftergamer9058]

But Ensha is able to invade you in the roundtable so clearly some people can resist the pacification of the roundtable.

[@ScythosMusic]

Margott and Mogh are 100% my favorite characters after learning more about them over time. I just feel so sorry for both of them.

[@justyouraverageblackstar3672]

Morgott: I shall protect the very Erdtree that abandoned me, the very order that shunned me, and the very people that had deemed my curse undesirable, for now you may know, traitorous Tarnished, the way of the Golden Order is truly just and utterly pure! Mohg:👹 *GIMME DAT BUSSY* 👹

[@ScythosMusic]

@@justyouraverageblackstar3672 😂😂😂😂 In all seriousness @AgtJake made a video explaining a theory that Miquella went willingly after having lost faith in his Haligtree hoping Mogh’s Blood God could cure Milenia and it’s head canon now

[@Canaanitebabyeater]

@@justyouraverageblackstar3672 join the serpent king as family- wait wrong guy

[@nothanks9503]

@@CanaanitebabyeaterTogetherrrrr

[@nothanks9503]

@@ScythosMusicmakes perfect sense actually the mothers flaming blood probably does kill rot

[@liamvickers7321]

I think that the reason that the phantom is calmer in the Roundtable Hold is that the insanity of the Dung Eater is spurred by the mismatch between his mind/heart and his body. So when his phantom is separated from his body, he basically IS how he sees himself, and therefore, no mismatch.

[@Gumper30]

Hold up, could the dysphoria you're describing be another example of the themes of gender and identity that show up all over the place in Elden Ring? Because the more I think about it the more I think that the suppression and repression of the omens is intended as a parallel to not only racial discrimination, but sexual discrimination as well. I don't mean this as a way to start a political argument either, I just think that this is a genuinely interesting possibility that's worth considering.

[@hummus1973]

@@Gumper30 so your saying Dung Eater is canonically a troon?

[@giovanniprovost]

@@Gumper30 A lot of Elden Ring's lore is rooted in Gnostic Alchemy, where in certain sects there is believed to be a supreme hermaphrodite "double" person. I think the name is Adama or something like that, not well educated enough but you can search for more. In my playthrough I noticed a ton of Alchemical concepts (physik, tree worship, etc) all over the place. I'm sure some content creators have noticed too. That may help explain a little bit of what you are talking about! Edit: The super double person is named Rebis*

[@putdownthreads]

@@Gumper30 I hardly think the themes of gender identity are that ubiquitous as you think they are in this game lol I think the dung eater is just an obsessive madman

[@Gumper30]

@@giovanniprovost this is an interesting take that I hadn't heard, but from what I know of Gnosticism it makes a lot of sense! a lot of Gnostic mythology centres around stripping away the false 'material self' to reveal the true 'soul self' so that's definitely an idea that might tie into why there are so many characters with two seemingly distinct 'selves' in the game, or the themes of transformation and rebirth.

[@agent2596]

the dung eater ending really is just "If everyone is cursed, nobody is"

[@LizardWizard403]

Absolutely based

[@ExpandDong420]

​@LizardWizard403 based and Syndrome-pilled

[@akaErma]

The Omen Bairn has one of the most heartbreaking item descriptions in the game. I was disgusted by the Golden Lineage including Marika for the unceremonious way they threw away their own children, creating the monsters they feared. They never even get a chance.

[@akaErma]

I suppose there is some ceremony in it, given the existence of the omen bairn items, but they still threw them in the sewer to rot, and with Mohg and Morgott, literally shackled them to the ground.

[@ThommyofThenn]

@@akaErma sophistry. OP meant the seemingly callous way they dealt with their omen children

[@akaErma]

@@ThommyofThenn lol I am OP, I was just clarifying.

[@ThommyofThenn]

@@akaErma thanks

[@Aceius]

Now, I don't have horns coming out of my body but I can imagine that having them excised would be incredibly painful, wouldn't be surprised if some Omens just died from the shock.

[@Old_Machine_Spirit]

Ah yes, I always wanted a deep dive lore into the one known as the Ferocious Feaster of Feces.

[@ALLMINDmercenarysupportsystem]

This is the best take on the Dung Eater's name I've seen.

[@the-real-Lovefist]

I love SsethTzeentach

[@KuonilerariLoufanwald]

THE REVILED RECTUM RAVAGER

[@adrastos50]

Also known as The Horrifying Poo Poo Plunderer

[@SympatheticStrawmanVA]

The Crazy CaCa Consumer!

[@draw2death421]

Ive learned much from this video! I had no idea all Omens werent just 'British Monsters' 1:05

[@annaclarallb]

I’d love a April’s Fool video of Eredin and Smough trying to prove which item is superior: Telescope or Albinuric Bloodclot 😂

[@SmoughTown]

Oh boy, we may need to settle this in the arena.

[@user-ns4zm8qe9p]

A battle for the ages

[@islapcrabs]

The Crucible has to be one of my favorite aspects of ER lore. A time of primeval might and chaos. I’d love to have a DLC that takes place there, exploring the origin of omens, and getting new beastial weapons, armors, and summons. Maybe even a rematch with a Horah Loux in his prime

[@SmoughTown]

That would be soooo cool. And just like a primeval, wild version of the regular map.

[@2265Hello]

@@SmoughTown when you say primeval version of the map it reminds me of that fake leak do the dlc called Barbarians of the bad lands

[@WelcomeToTwinklePark]

YOU create the curse

[@ThommyofThenn]

I believe it was meant to be "a time of" rather than "a time or"

[@ThommyofThenn]

@@WelcomeToTwinklePark that's a rather fromsoftian idea isn't it? I like it

[@educatedlaziness3268]

I've always thought the Crucible and the Omen/Misbegotten were connected in some way to the age of Dragons, the horned Omen breathing fire, the way Avian misbegotten grow sets of four wings, I've thought that perhaps the Crucible age began very soon after the fall of Faram Azula, and that the chaotic, primeval life that it produced based itself on the most powerful beings of the time, the Ancient Dragons, there's even some thematic similarity between the two and loss of physical characteristics diminishing their power, as Smough points out an Omen with excised horns seemingly can't use their fire powers, the same way that once the Dragons lost their Gravestone Scales they became weaker and less intelligent

[@chrisp.9380]

Looking at the root like design of the Dragon's version of the Elden ring, it seems they may have ruled in a time when the Elden Ring had only gotten so far as growing a root system that would one day become the Erdtree, and potentially a previous iteration of the Erdtree existed between the time period of the roots and the modern Erdtree, but was fallen, and then the crucible era grew out of the remains of that fallen first attempt at an Erdtree. Tarnished Archeologist has a video showing that the appearance of new sprouting branches coming from a tree trunk that has been felled, looks an incredible amount like Siluria's spear, which was said to have the appearance of the crucible. So perhaps the timeline was: the root system is born and is the first incarnation of the crucible (the one the dragons lived under), the first Erdtree grows, the first Erdtree is destroyed, the next iteration of the crucible is born from the destroyed first Erdtree, and then the sprout that became the modern Erdtree eventually won out over the others and the modern Erdtree was born, a process which Tarnished Archeologist points out is seemingly depicted by the two iterations of the same statue in the game. The first is the statue in Stormveil, which portrays a cloaked figure in front of several branches sprouting from the same place, and the second being several depictions of that same statue in the Roundtable Hold, but instead of several branches sprouting from the same point, these depictions now have only one branch remaining. Perhaps symbolizing that the sprout which would become the modern Erdtree won out over the others and became the new trunk, the new holy tree.

[@kizami3]

Someone may have already mentioned this. The Hard Soul Orb in Japanese Myth, is supposedly in the Liver, I believe. Looking at the Seedbed Curse, after removing the horns, looks like a malformed(perhaps cancerous or knotted), Liver. Just another thing I noticed. Amazing video as always!

[@bagaboo4746]

It's called the "seedbed" curse I imagine the seedbed is the location that gets cursed and *might cause your children to be omens?* *just a guess and it dosent fit with how he directly turns the victim into an omen through re-birth* I suppose it is a curse on the seedbed of whoever next gives birth to the victims?

[@letmesleep4828]

Tbh the instant he said it was supposedly in the anus, i was like "ah yes, the prostate" lol

[@Orthanderis]

Isn't it the prostate gland? Kappa were known for sucking it out the butt which is where it got the association or something idk

[@roberthill5805]

I always sort of thought it looked like a kidney.

[@john-paul3271]

People can get stones in the bile duct, but that is mostly associated with the gallbladder.

[@AlbertusSalvatierra]

Dude, this was amazing. Firstly, didn’t even see the horns in the lions. And secondly, that nice little wrap up with how cursed souls worked with the Omens was perfect execution. I knew about it, but I didn’t really know how well each detail fitted together. This did it 🕺

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks so much fella, means a lot coming from yourself I really enjoyed working on this one

[@Sour_AppIe]

Rewatching the video I finally realized with you mentioning the greater will returning lost grace to tarnished in hopes of restoring order That most of returning tarnished are all those who are in some shape are capable of fixing order, the tarnished, godfry and Gideon are those who have the means of restoring order through basic means of might and lordship As for the others dung eater, Fia or gold mask have the means of restoring order through creating an aspect of order themselves, crazy how I never realized this but it really goes to show the greater will didn't care how just as long as some kind of order was put in place be it life within death or a blessing of despair

[@SmoughTown]

100% - they just want the Elden Ring repaired, it matters not to them if it's a cursed mending rune

[@cachumbos1125]

What i love the most about Elden Ring whole story is that it essentially is about multiple people from both past and present realising the heavy flaws of the system governing their world, but with everyone coming with a totally different solution to its problems, and pretty much all options have some truth and "good" in them, even when looking at absolute extremes like the horrifying nature of the Dung Eater or the mathematical precision of Gold Mask, everyone is trying to repair something that either the Golden Order or even the Elden Ring in its current form where unable to consider

[@nobody4248]

Well everyone excecpt Shabriri, who's solution is destroying the world.

[@TheApollo90]

I have a theory that Marika started making Radagon right after Mohg/Morgott were born. She knew that Godfrey’s connection to the crucible was too strong, thus birthing more omens, and she wanted empyreans which he seemed unable to provide

[@115UndeadAnarchy115]

Do we know why Godfrey had Knights of the Crucible? There seems to be a weird about of grey area around the two, and it's kind of the only connection between Godfrey and the Crucible apart from the twins

[@Late0NightPC]

​@@115UndeadAnarchy115 I don't think there is an explicit reason given, but I think it is for the sake of drawing a clear and obvious connection between Godfrey and King Arthur. Tarnished Archeologist made an excellent video on the idea, but the rough TLDR is that, the environmental details of the real Roundtable Hold in the capital informs you about the transitionary period between "the age of the Crucible" and "the age of the Erdtree". Godfrey having a group of knights who gather at a Roundtable invokes that, in the past age, there was a level of equality between them all, suggesting that while there very much was a society at the time, it wasn't as massive and complex as to require a clear structure of authority. They could all gather around the table without any one person being at the head of the table, since there was no head seat at a round table unlike what you'd see at a rectangular table. But then, just a room away where we find the Two Fingers in our version of the Hold, there's a throne room. That shows the moment where Godfrey and his Knights had to give up that equal rule after the Golden Order began, and Marika appointed him the first Elden Lord. They had to leave behind their Roundtable, and instead accept the structure of a King and the Throne. The Crucible Knights are very clearly connected to the age of the Crucible, so by making them working with Godfrey at a round table, it clearly invokes that image of King Arthur and his Knights of the Roundtable, which then contrasts with the throne room to inform us on how the structure of society shifted as the Golden Order was formed.

[@twujstary1129]

why would Marika want an empyrean to be born? I dont see how it would make sense, as i understood Ranni etc. were chosen to be empyreans by the Greater Will, not by Marika and Marika wasn't asked by Greater Will for more children to choose from. As i see it Radagon was born as a form of a PTSD of Marika the queen, who became a god chosen by the Greater Will (an ascended human, with partial of her humanity kept?) and "governing" the events with fire giants (that's the red hair from) and that's why Radagon is more of a "holy warrior" than a "saint" like Marika. but idk, just a speculation, im not sure if Radagon "was" before the war with the giants

[@115UndeadAnarchy115]

@@twujstary1129 That's like saying every monarch in history never wanted to be succeeded Which is ridiculous, monarchs literally tried their hardest to keep their lineage on the throne, Henry VIII even killed 2 of his wives that didn't give him sons for the throne lol

[@geordiejones5618]

So the twins are much older than their half siblings if you're right, because Radagon was fighting in the wars of conquest same as Maliketh and Godfrey. Then he has three children with Rennala and then even later has Miquella and Malenia. I can see it. Morgott especially has an elder statesman feel and that makes even more sense how he was able to fight both Radahn and Rykard's forces, and how Mogh is able to kidnap Miquella. They've been around longer than their siblings. That would also imply Godwyn is younger than them but still older than everyone else, which explains why his grandson was given a rune. Timeline makes sense to me.

[@zigtavius5071]

Hello, im a newer viewer but have quickly become a big fan! You guys should seriously be proud of the production of these videos. Each one is essentially a fully polished lore documentary

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks so much my friend! Really glad to have you hear and super grateful for your support.

[@ThommyofThenn]

As a viewer who's been around for around six months, let me tell ya, welcome. I've watched all of this channel's ER videos and I liked them so much, I'm even watching their other playlists about different games. These ER ones represent a whole new level of quality just from a purely technical standpoint and lore reading/compiling. With that said, the older videos are a lot of fun too, seeing how far this channel has improved

[@NihilisticRealism]

if you pay attention, he drags on much longer than he needs to. reitteration on top of reitteration. he's cool at first, but after a while i fall asleep waiting for him to get from one point to the next

[@ThommyofThenn]

@@NihilisticRealism Right. Ok then leave a like and move on

[@chrisp.9380]

@@NihilisticRealism Then don't watch something you don't enjoy. Don't do that thing where just because you dislike something, you feel the need to try and make other people dislike it too. Something not being good to you doesn't make it objectively bad, it just means you personally don't vibe with it. I for one appreciate the reiteration because it keeps the previous points he makes on the mind as he incorporates and presents new ideas, which helps form a bigger picture of the theory he is proposing.

[@leviklopfenstein8158]

THE LOATHSOME DOO DOO DEVOURER

[@machi7074]

THE UNFATHOMABLE POOP GOBBLER

[@Flora-of_The-Moon]

THE BERSERK BOOTY-BOMB BANQUETER

[@_KRYMZN_]

THE CONTEMPTIBLE CRAP CONSUMER!

[@PR1ME98]

THE FATED FECAL FEASTER!!!

[@AngryHomunculus]

-THE EVIL EXCREMENT EATER- THE GHASTLY GUANO GOBBLER

[@Antichupius]

Don’t forget Fia, she too is one of the Tarnished who saw the grace, and she too is able to create a mending rune. Like Dung Eater and Goldmask. All the Tarnished chosen seem very specifically chosen, we can assume Godfrey’s goal was just to mend the Elden Ring, like the base ending. As for Gideon Ofnir, we don’t know exactly, as he stands in ou path, but all that research of his was probably with a purpose. (Maybe related with that ending that ended up not making into the final game?) This leaves all the 5 Tarnished chosen with their own vision and motivation to mend the Elden Ring and restore order, except for our PC, as it’s for us to chose with each of these ideas to align with.

[@JC-oq5ex]

That's a really nice way of saying "our choices don't matter & everything we do is just for someone else's purposes"

[@kylenmaple4668]

I like to think of the Frenzied Flame as the chosen ending for our Tarnished. We follow our own intuition and reject all others, beginning anew

[@KuonilerariLoufanwald]

It's basically SMT3's entire plot. We cannot create an idea so we must side with someone who can. Frenzied Flame is even like the True Demon ending in a way.

[@jac1793]

Your last sentence is why I chose the frenzied flame

[@thepancakemann]

When I first heard Fia's name I thought I heard Fina and my Lautrec fanboi ass got extremely hyped thinking the lands between were Carim.

[@QuestionableObject]

As usual I gotta say its possible to interact with Dung Eater and save boggart at the same time, you just gotta do the dung eater stuff before you kill the magma drake (whcih is what allows all the NPCs in Liurnia to travel to Altus). Once Dung Eater has done his invasion and been strapped to the chair, Boggart is safe.

[@OneLooseGal]

But you will be missing a seabed curse ?

[@QuestionableObject]

@@OneLooseGal You need 5, Boggart's is a 6th.

[@goosey1561]

On the reproduction thing, I believe it may just be a byproduct of the removal of The Rune Of Death, because once you are granted eternal life, the need to continue your bloodline through children just isn't really needed anymore

[@vladislavgilyov6626]

But the age isn't nearly a primary reason of death in wildlife. Or is enemies' rebirth canon?

[@njorlpinipini]

@@vladislavgilyov6626it is

[@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149]

@@vladislavgilyov6626 It's not just death by old age that's hampered by the disappearance of the rune of death. I don't know if enemies respawning is canon, but as I see it, death in general has been tampered with, which can be seen throughout the whole game. Most importantly, people are reborn through the erdtree, giving them essentially eternal life. Beasts may still reproduce, but at least humans are slowly, but surely reborn. Or at least they were. The nature of death is a bit more unclear in Elden Ring than in the souls games, I have to say. The lore is a bit more unclear in general.

[@rrrrrrrachel]

glad to see the izalith reference - the looking down upon the omen as "times became more civilised" always reminded me of the civilised anor londo looking down on the great swamp & its animistic pyromancies

[@Mythe88]

This video gave me the first satisfying answer to why only some Tarnished see grace and why they see grace in the first place... But gives me more questions on what Marika planned to do when she exiled Godfrey knowing the Tarnished would come back after death.

[@liarwithagun]

Yeah. That whole part of the plot along with whatever Miquella was trying to do seem to be the two things we have the least amount of information on. Oh, and whatever the red spear thing that Radagon/Marika were impaled by was exactly. Literally no info at all on that as far as I'm aware except for pure speculation. Oh, and the origins and specific details of how the Rykard serpent works seemingly outside the Greater Will's control and was made/created/born/originated.

[@Orthanderis]

She banished them not expecting them to come back? Miquella was trying to cure his sister. The goddess of rot is an 'outer god', like Renalla, and the unalloyed gold needle works because unalloyed gold is separate from the greater will, so it kept out the influence of 'outer gods'. Marikas kids are all fucked up because they were more like artificial gods created with the sacrifice of another gods power. You see this happen when the blood god kidnaps Miquella and tried to do the same thing, and why his sister is constantly suppressing a new goddess from dominating her and sprouting out of her body. I'm willing to bet that Marika used the Grace of the Tarnished to create Radagan, meaning she sacrificed part of the greater will to do so, an outer god, so Miquella, Malenia, and all the omens are all fucked up because they're both physical incest babies but also soul incest. Marika essentially made an incorporeal god being spout out children from two half's of itself. We know she had access to it because the erd tree siphons it to survive, which she planted. My guess? Dungeater desecrates corpses the same way Marika did; he kills the grace inside them, just differently. Through the game people say the fingers are acting weird, the greater will is eratic, its because due to the Erd tree, dungeater, and Ranni the golden order is fractured and the greater will is dying. Most endings modify or rebuild the golden order in some way, but Marika is still the vessel, she's still a cracked shell, the golden order is fractured, and the greater will is still dying. Ranni's ending let's the golden order die and creates a new order entirely. Why did she do all this? The Elden Beast inside the erd tree is also Marika. It's a partially ascended form of Marika, feeding off the dying greater will to try to achieve true godhood inside the erd tree, the same way Miquella tried to do so in the Haligtree, the same way she created Radagon, the same way Morg tried to ascend Miquella in his throne of blood, and the same way that Ranni succeeded when she took over as the moon goddess. Or maybe its an 'outer god' separate from the greater will which saw the chance to encroach on a weakened gods territory, and Radagon was influenced by it into becoming its 'elden lord'.

[@solomon9655]

@@liarwithagun I've seen people dwell on the spear in Marika a lot but I have 2 answers, one of which is in the game. One answer is it's a parallel to the Spear of Longinus that pierced Jesus on the cross. That's hardly even speculation, she's literally crucified. So that imagery is very deliberate, it's even in the right spot. An in-game answer is the Elden Beast's grab attack, where it lifts you into the air and BARRAGES you with similar-looking spears. My guess is Marika was strung up and attacked into submission immediately after shattering the Elden Ring. To paint the picture: Marika shatters the Ring, a moment passes. From within her the Elden Beast's fury surfaces and she's crucified on the spot, battered by a deluge of spears until she's practically a dead vessel, her body broken and destroyed with one of the spears remaining in a spot that hasn't crumbled yet. On that note I'm surprised people bring up the spear so much and not Marika/Radagon's seemingly porcelain/clay body.

[@STie95]

The act of eating excrement, the omens and the crucible is nicely linked; the crucible is an violent life that feeds itself, the omens a remnant of that, and what the dung eater does is sustain himself via a closed loop in the act of eating excrement. A good alternative symbol for the dung eater would be the ouroboros. A constant, stagnant state of sustaining oneself with oneself. In his ideal world, everyone would defile in order to defile, eat in order to eat.

[@carnihorse]

I love how no matter what, albinaurics always find their way into the lore. Another great video man, keep it up :)

[@SmoughTown]

Thank you my friend and I will do!

[@platypipope328]

The most chaotic thing the frenzied flame could do was give the poor albibros a break

[@Mortiel]

I always thought that Omen persecution shared a lot of similarity to Those Who Live In Death, which lead me to assume the Omen were not conceived in any different manner... It's simply a small chance occurrence in Erdtree "recycling" souls. But once a soul is reborn as Omen, they and their offspring are "rejected" by the Erdtree forever. And that last part links to the Dung Eater's aim... I think he found a way to reliably get the Erdtree to "reject" souls just like an Omen, likely by somehow "implanting" Omen horns into the victim somehow... Which entirely aligns with his history and visual representation of his armor.

[@pixelsyndicate3662]

My theory is the omen have souls since they drop runes and can communicate between the souls of the dead and cursed. But they were denied by the erdtree so they had to return to the primeval crucible underneath. That’s why when they’re reborn, they physically show signs of the chaotic crucible on their body. I believe there is some Japanese theology that discusses the shape of souls shows on the body and that’s where that idea, that where their souls are coming from, determined the shape

[@SmoughTown]

EDIT: WARNING I WILL NEVER DO A GIVEAWAY VIA KZbin COMMENTS. LOOK FOR MY VERIFIED TICK! Thanks everyone for watching my take on the Dung Eater and the Omen. Please let me know your comments below. Join this channel to get access to perks: kzbin.info/door/cvGOIuFH6befwVyElnMI_Ajoin

[@TommasoFirmini]

Real happy to see your content doing so good man, its well earned. I'd really like to see you poke into the older games(bloodborne plz) and do long form videos like these. They're so awesome man

[@SmoughTown]

@@TommasoFirmini Thanks my friend - really appreciate the kind words and support. I am 100% wanting to do BB, DS1 and DeS lore!

[@nothanks9503]

An L1?

[@Tokahontes]

Could Grace be given to those with the indomitable will and drive to repair the elden ring? Our tarnished, Fia, TDE, Goldmask etc... all have that unstoppable movation and willingness to kill, Defile, blaspheme, or face insurmountable odds to create a mending rune and the greater will can see their potential to repair the ring by any means necessary to bring about any form of order.

[@dogedude1535]

😔no dung thumbnail

[@00paincakes00]

super excited about this one, Smough. you and archeologist really are the cream of the crop right now, fantastic content.

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks bud, great compliment to be named along side TA!

[@doodlebrain6594]

The way you describe the perfumers struck a cord in me. I might be reading into it but it reminded me so much of eugenics and how people with disabilities are treated. Autism being the one that first came to mind. Starting out working to “cure” the abnormality, but when that doesn’t work, the sever othering and disgust/fear that in some awful cases led to the disabled person being “put out of their misery.” You call the omen a danger but it didn’t seem like they were. They were just outside the current power. The only person we see trying to spread their curse is the dung eater who goes to deeply extreme lengths, but who’s to say the average omen would or even could do that? But the fear that they could was enough for them to be killed. I really think that’s all it was, fear and projection. They saw people outside of the tree’s power and feared that could somehow spread to them.

[@JustinZode]

Seeing Smough, Tarnished Archaelogist, Ratatoskr, Crunchy, Lore Hunter and others - all building off each other’s work and referencing it to develop these sound theories and plausible speculation is just an incredible process to behold. So much thought and care went into Elden Ring, it’s staggering. The collaboration between Miyazaki and GRRM has created a timeless piece of art, and I’m so glad Elden Ring has received the unanimous accolades it so deeply deserves. It’s been an incredible year, and my family and I have made such wonderful memories with the game and community.

[@puzzleheaded6195]

The Seedbed Curse has a striking similarity to the Larval Tear, which is the item needed specifically for rebirth. If the Seedbed Curse is the product of Dung Eater’s defilement, then it’s possible he intends for people to be reborn again and again with the curse. Still begs the question of what is the curse and it’s origin though? An item that shares the same golden/black effect from the wraith summoning spells can also be seen in the weapon art of the Eclipse Shotel when you’re “setting the lusterless sun ablaze, with the Prince of Death’s Flame”. This implies a link to Godwyn since as you said, the mottled skybox that manifests in his dream can also be seen in the ending. Dung Eater also invades you in a pool of water where the Godwyn crabs are but how it is all connected? Marred Leather Shield - Leather shield of Stormveil soldiers. Much like the castle, it is marred by mottling and thorns. Some say it is the curse of grafting which causes such affliction, while others talk of its root being something altogether more sinister hidden deep within the castle. Mottling is a heavy theme with Godwyn because it’s something that occurs to people before death and usually occurs during the final week of life, although in some cases it can occur earlier. Stormveil in particular is an interesting case because while people speculate that the damage on the castle is due to dragons or meteors, the same damage can also be seen on the inside and tangibly wouldn’t be possible. It seems Godwyn’s corruption(weird skybox) seems to be manifesting on the castle itself. How does this link to the Omen? Since the Mottling goes hand in hand with the thorns, my best guess is Dung Eater is defiling beings with the curse of Godwyn but the thorns manifesting on them in the shape of horns.

[@drbeidlbock7250]

Considering the effect that deathblight has on people, which looks somewhat similar to omen horns, aswell as it´s theme of uncontrolled physical growth, as also seen with godwyns corpse (and perhaps the royal revenants?) and the fact that the erdtree has the same hue in both fias and dung eaters ending makes me believe, that there is a connection on purpose. Also it´s quite interesting that the deathbed companions are mentioned in tricias ashes, who is explicetly linked to the omen.

[@codypatton2859]

You were into something in the start and then you just started reaching. There are too many distinct differences. Don't focus so much on finding exceptions that you forget the rule.

[@alyseleem2692]

Except one causes death, the other is pure, unadulterated life. Let's put this another way: What do these two share? What is " The lusterless sun" supposed to refer to? As we know, it refers to the absorption of the vitality of the Sun, creating the Eclipse and "giving life to the Soulless bones" as they say. In other words, whilst obviously not the Sun itself, the Eclipse Shotel depicts a process through which a vital force is exchanged for some form of life to form or rise from death, that is, Deathblight. Now, what exactly are Omen doing? The Omen Bairn, in both it's versions, is used to summon wraiths, wrathful souls who died accursed according to another description. In other words, they have managed to contain the vital forces, or souls, of cursed people. This is not a conscious or willing act, as these beings bring constant nightmares and terrors to their charges, but with time, and age, an Omen can master them, as shown in the Shunning Grounds, through some instinctual discipline. If the souls contained by Omen must always be cursed, then there is a simpler explanation for why they were once considered divine, now accursed. In both cases, they are " sin eaters" ,beings invested with the specific power and responsibility to carry cursed souls and keep their evil from cursing others, as well as the accumulation and purification of miasma. Now that their duties are largely beyond their reach and knowledge, cursed wraiths and Revenants wander the Lands, striking fear and spreading death and despair, though they are hardly the worst to grace this world with yet more disaster.

[@BandofAdventurers]

@@alyseleem2692 The Omen are hollows that collect souls in order to level up and Link the Fire. Sorry, getting souls mixed up! :)

[@alyseleem2692]

@@BandofAdventurers I don't think Omen are soulless, precisely. Mixing up being cursed and being soulless is not exactly how it works, since there are souls who are cursed, and people who are cursed in life, sometimes looking perfectly normal. This,along with the fact that both Mohg and Morgott possess remembrances, suggests the fact that Omen do possess souls of their own. That is, aside from their sheer intelligence and consciousness. If anything, Omen possess powerful souls, with their own gravity and attraction to other souls. They force them, without even trying, into the prison of their bodies in the form of horns, and in ancient times, worked to purify and release them through time, before gathering mour accursed souls, making sure the flow of life, death and rebirth remained constant. It's no wonder the Ancestral Followers hold budding horns in such high regard.

[@sgtpeppers6414]

I know you probably meant to say "brutish monsters", but it sounds like you're saying "British Monsters", which is a lot funnier.

[@senseweaver01]

Your videos are so in-depth, it's incredible. There are very few mediums that will allow me to learn about a game I love and the mythologies and stories of other countries at the same time. Just... ugh, this is just great!

[@SmoughTown]

Glad you like them, thank you so much!

[@HOAdebtlottery]

What always interests me most about the Dung Eater in particular is what he says after he formulates his plan, "The rotten fools. My fate was the grandest, most brilliant of them all!" It makes me think that the Order or the age of the Erdtree when it had replaced the Crucible had shifted the fate of the world, that the Dung Eater before the Crucible was replaced was to be something of a hero or a legend himself. And this is why he sees himself as an Omen though he isn't.

[@smiley6668]

I would argue that the omen condition isn't necessarily tied to soullessness but by preventing the soul returning to the erdtree it allows the influence of the crucible and primordial methods of life and death

[@El_Karlo]

As far as Crucible-affected beings who carry its trait go, I think modern dragons are overlooked, even though they carry traits in common with other creatures, such as feathers and the growth of horns along their backs. Furthermore, their descent from Greyoll suggests something passed down through heredity. Lastly, the Cave of the Forlon suggests a connection between these dragons and misbegotten.

[@jackweaver1846]

How does Forlorn cave connect misbegotten and dragons? I’m not doubting you, I just can’t find anything that leads to that conclusion.

[@chrisp.9380]

@@jackweaver1846 There is a dead modern dragon half frozen in ice at the entrance to the cave. I believe they are suggesting that this was intentionally placed there, in a cave full of crucible influenced lifeforms, to encourage the players to make a connection between the dragons and the crucible.

[@El_Karlo]

Yes, isn't it odd to have a dragon there?

[@feldmarshallduda6301]

Can we just take a short moment and enjoy that fancy Omen at 0:52 how it walks at 10 FPS in the background :) Great Video as Always Smough Town

[@SmoughTown]

It's crazy the powers these Omen get...Hahah thanks so much!

[@pinip_f_werty1382]

Been waiting forever for this. I hope you talk about the formless mother in this one.

[@SmoughTown]

Next one my friend - when I speak on Morgott! Hope you enjoy this one nonetheless

[@pinip_f_werty1382]

@@SmoughTown I'd listen to you ramble about lore for 10 hours my man. I learned a lot so far. The Kappa thing was especially a great find.

[@SmoughTown]

@@pinip_f_werty1382 Thank you my friend, really pleased to hear that! The Morgott one will be a good one too!

[@pinip_f_werty1382]

@@SmoughTown You have no idea how excited I am for Morgott. Keep up the good work man. If you don't have a patreon, you should definitely make one. We need more people like you in the community.

[@SmoughTown]

@@pinip_f_werty1382 Too kind bud, I am just grateful I get so much wonderful support!

[@chewiewalkzzz]

It almost feels like the omen are meant to be vessels, holding these lost souls similar to the jar bois. When the horns are cut they might be able to hold on to less souls and therefore less power. As if its spilling out of the omens, the release of the spirits in an explosion seems like it might be a containment issue as the animation looks uncomfortable to the omen. This bit of lore had always been a huge interest of mine, fascinating just like the video.

[@nightowlmystic9387]

I found it sad that omen were treated like this. No one asked to be cursed or to have horns. The fact that some are imprisoned underground for being born of royalty is more cruel than commoner omens who have their horns cut which I believe is more merciful of dealing with them though still bad.

[@Broomer52]

It actually reminded something interesting about human biology when it comes to omens. In a certain sense Omens do exist in real life although it’s exceedingly rare and depending on when and where it happens you may either be worshiped as an aspect of a god, something to be feared or someone horrifically deformed. People in real can be born with vestigial parts that have no business existing in the human body. Humans can be born with fangs (sometimes referred to as Tiger Teeth), you can have horns, a tail, full body hair like an ape, and sometimes gills. I’ve not heard of an instance where the tails or gills were ever actually functional so they were just grown onto a persons body absolutely useless.

[@jobdylan5782]

@@Broomer52 It's definitely not rare. The populations of some superstitious 3rd world areas are in the billions.

[@Broomer52]

@@jobdylan5782 it’s not rare for people to be born with tails, horns, fangs, fur and gills?

[@jobdylan5782]

@@Broomer52 I assumed he meant the real world definition of an omen child, a real phenomenon. That is not rare, no.

[@Broomer52]

@@jobdylan5782 did you forget to change accounts before typing that? Why are you assuming what you meant? If you don’t know what you meant then Why’d you type it?

[@rashkavar]

Regarding your theory on the origin of the Omenkillers - the one thing I wonder, then: what is the origin of the Omensmirk Mask? Especially if Rollo himself uses it (having not yet summoned all the ashes, I'm not familiar with most of their appearances. The idea of wearing a mask of the beings that haunt the nightmares of those you are hunting is truly a sadistic one, unless there is some deeper practical purpose. From the depiction of Rollo as a doctor who has to take emotion suppressing medicines in order to kill the Omens, this doesn't seem like it's consistent with his character - not unless that emotion suppressant had additional side effects that not only suppress one's conscience, but also bring out a sadistic side. (and yes, these are not necessarily the same thing, at least in the real world.)

[@deimosvalentine]

This is the one topic I have been waiting for the most!!! Extremely hyped!!

[@djhaka7380]

Great video! Now, Mizuko-kuyō mentioned in 18:34 is a rather controversial topic amongst Japanese academics since researchers aren’t really sure whether it’s a religious tradition attempting to venerate deceased infants or, like what Nagoya University (2008) argued, an “invented tradition” deployed by religious entities as a business scheme. It would’ve been interesting if Elden Ring had something similar going on in their story line.

[@djhaka7380]

Another thing also mentioned in 44:26 aka Shirikodama is that, in truth, it’s not dictated as “hard soul ball” per se since some encyclopedic sources speculate them as an imaginary organ which controls bowel movements.

[@pebrockk]

Please never stop making these videos. So good.

[@SmoughTown]

I'll keep them coming, thank you so much for the support!

[@davidmejia5740]

Gave this one another watch, and at the point where the revenants/wraiths were mentioned, it really points at a uniqueness in their circumstances of existence when you look at how both take heavy damage from healing incantations, which is a characteristic you often see in undead in other games (such as FF, where some titles will let you damage/kill undead enemies with healing spells like Cura or Raise). The interesting thing is that you don't see such a weakness in Those Who Live in Death, which really sets the revenants/wraiths apart in their circumstances of undead (or at least akin to undead) existence.

[@mysteriousstranger9182]

Another amazing video!!! Your my favourite souls youtuber, keep up the amazing work !!

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks so much friend! Really appreciate the support

[@GeraAbi]

God how I love the Omen lore. Thank you for your service smough you are a hero and the Eldenring Lorelord

[@SmoughTown]

My pleasure, thank you so much for the kind words and the support!

[@matteoflamigni550]

One of your most complete and deep-thought video. Given the amount of misinformation about the omens I appreciated this video especially.

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks Matteo. Really appreciate that - I enjoyed researching the nuances of the Omen

[@MsCube3]

On my way to end the Dung Eater as I listen to this

[@Truestoned0]

The omens dream demons are honestly one of the most interesting things about the omen in my opinion also another masterpiece mate thank you for all you do

[@DarkerGames]

The Omen Curse is something very intriguing as concept as well as the primordial crucible both play a major part in story so getting to learn more about these is very good,Great explanation Smough of the Omen Curse and the Dung Eater have a great day

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks my friend, I really enjoyed diving into this one. Have a great day yourself

[@DarkerGames]

@@SmoughTown your welcome, I’m glad. Thanks I will

[@childofcascadia]

Amusingly, your accent to my accent I heard 0:54 and 1:04 as "british" instead of "brutish" for a split second. Which led to a pretty amusing concept, that the Omen were British monsters. Like oh no, we birthed a Brit! Into the sewers with you! This is one of the best most researched omen videos out there. And I have watched hundreds of ER lore vids by this time. Its given me a lot to think about.

[@jamesnorman9160]

Depressing how the Omen were once seen as a blessing...but of course with the new order they're now seen as something horrific to shun and cast out. The fact that young babies can have their horns cut off - which is undoubtedly a horrific act - is bad enough, but then you have the Omenkillers use certain draughts to help them do their work suggests they're literal child killers to an extent. But yes, Morgott has to be one of my favourite characters in the whole game: cursed, shunned and cast out, but also the only demigod who stayed loyal to the Erdtree right to the end, even though it never loved him back. P.S. Looking at the way the horns grow on some of the Omen...that has to be painful to some extent, right?

[@anathema2526]

About your P.S - have you seen Mohg's eye?

[@arthurmorgan5335]

@@anathema2526 yeah the horn grew into it. looks extremely painful, especially since it had to be a slow growth further into his head.

[@siegwardinspirit]

@@arthurmorgan5335 The thought that Mogh embraced his omen blood to the extent where he *allows* his horn to grow into his skull, despite it very likely being a death sentence...

[@jamesnorman9160]

@@anathema2526 Mohg is an obvious example, but the Regal Omen in the sewers with all their full horns still...that can't be comfortable either.

[@The_loathsome_Dung_Eater1]

​@@siegwardinspiritit is, there are some sheep who grow their horns into their neck, having a serious infection and perishing.

[@shogomakishima7224]

Dung Eater can be summoned as a golden phantom to help us in our fights with Morgott and Mogh, The Omen. For a while it was escaping me why he does so until I realized that Sanguine Nobles and red albinaurics develop omen horns as a result of ingesting Mogh's blood. This implies that the Dung Eater hunts down omens in order to use their remains to defile the corpses of his victims. This doesn’t contradict the Shirikodama theory. As a matter of fact I believe both of them are true. After all, Shirikodama theory doesn’t really explain why and how he grows the Seedbed Curses on the corpses of his victims. There is also one more point about the omen and is widely ignored by the community. The yellow black flame seems to symbolize the cursed spirits/wraiths that can not return to the Eardtree. The Dung Eater eats the souls of his victims and can summon them in combat as yellow black homing missiles. Similarly to Dung Eater there are other enemies that use the yellow black flame. Wraith Callers are capable of summoning the cursed spirits with their bells and Lacerated Tree Spirits, which are composed of corpses and bodies unable to return to the Eardtree, can use it as a breath weapon. The last type of an enemy capable of using the black yellow flames in combat are the horned omens in the sewers below Leyndell. Obviously the omens themselves are cursed and unable to return to the Eardtree but it doesn’t explain how they are capable of using other cursed spirits as a weapon. There is a piece of the puzzle that is missing here. It does seem to me that when Dung Eater eats the Shirikodama of his victims he only imitates what the omens. Edit: Also some of the dialog in the game seems to be well aligned with the above theory for egz: "E's a killer. Kills people and curses their souls... Does all sorts of **** to their corpses, to keep 'em cursed, forever. " It is almost like it describes the procedure. Like Dung Eater first: -kills -curses the soul / eats Shirikodama -does staff to the victim body to "keep 'em cursed, forever" "You warded off my blessing. Despite the curse stirring within you. No one has succeeded in that before. How? I thought. Then it hit me. That you are, in fact, me. And I...am the Dung Eater. It is my flesh that must receive the blessing." So it almost sounds like the Dung Eater implies that we are to perform on him the very same process that he does to his victims... and we do not eat his Shirikodama but instead make him consume Seedbed Curses that have the omen horns growing out of them. Finally we have Blackguard Big Boggart case... that is a little unusual because his Shirikodama was not yet consumed by the Dung Eater but he still drops the Seedbed Curse. It implies that the Seedbed Curse is a result of something other then the consumption of Shirikodama by the Dung Eater.

[@ehhg9]

I just had this thought But since the Formless Mother is apparently so heavily in tune with omen blood, why are there no omens working with Mohg. He has Albinaurics, crows, dogs, nobles, tarnished, even some undead, but the one thing he seems to be missing is the formless mother’s apparent favorite form of blood. That’s so bizarre to me.

[@jonahs.757]

This is my favorite channel on KZbin at this point. SmoughTown sets a new bar for lore exploration.

[@SmoughTown]

You humble me Jonah! Thank you!

[@pedrog06]

I've been watching your videos nonstop. So glad that I can welcome a new one

[@SmoughTown]

Thank you Pedro! Hope you enjoy this one as well

[@schokoladenjunge1]

what i dont see discussed enough is the position of the other growths in the age of the crucible in competition with what would become the erdtree. i find it striking that the erdtree is on the rim of the central sea. My suspicion is that a) the other sprouts were to be found around the rim of the sea or somewhere else in a rough circle around the central cloud. b) In fact, it appears that the divine towers are sitting on top of where the original tree must have sat. either they were intended as a stabiliser for the greattree as is needed in elphael, or in fact they are nails to kill its stump (again as in the prophecy of miquella). Who would do that? could only be the ancient giants who were the right size for this. Additionally, I find one point striking. They mention births in the omen bairns. But what kind of births? Births by a mother? by the erdtree?

[@5chneemensch138]

Omen do have an afterlife. Deathrite Birds > Helphen Steeple. The Crucible was before the Erdtree, which means Omens were before the Erdtree. Deathrite Birds are also before the Erdtree. The Erdtree is recycling Souls while the Deathrite Birds are making place for new Souls. See Buddhism (rebirth) vs Hellenism (afterlife).

[@wcs792]

"The Omen are not simply British monsters, needing to be culled." 1:05 misheard that one oops.

[@jameslafleur6842]

Great video, you showed connections to Fia that I'd barely been grasping at myself haha. There's a couple things I wanted to add to the discussion. First, the colour of Omen wraiths looks the same as Fortissax's Death Lightning, which makes sense as Fort is described as being Corrupted By Death. Secondly, I find it interesting that Dung Eater's rune is called the Mending Rune of the Fell Curse. Not the Omen curse. And from the sky box in Godwyn's dream we see that this curse affects more than just the Omen. What I find suspicious is that the term 'fell' doesn't appear much in ER but when it does, it usually refers to the Fell God. I don't see much evidence to suggest a link but it's an anomaly. Be really interesting to see Japanese translations of these compared.

[@TheAuspiciousGoldmask]

You never disappoint Geoff, nice vid as always, altho i agree that the dung eater ending might be the purest form of justice for the omen, i still think that is the worst ending, behind the frenzied flame. I think the ppl outside the lands between got nothing to do with all this situation, might be justice for the omen but sure the ones who did nothing wrong will be accursed for free and will just take the consequences of someone else’s decisions( this just my point view, im happy to be wrong and if im, plz correct me).

[@SmoughTown]

Totally agree - it may be the 'worse' ending for most of humanity but it is a fitting 'revenge' against the Golden Order.

[@kdubbbz]

This aged poorly

[@TheAuspiciousGoldmask]

@@kdubbbz not gonna lie, you’re kinda right 🤣🤣🤣

[@jello7734]

I think you missed a huge connection between those who live in death and the omen curse in the section where you talk about the omen fire and the wraith callers. The visual effect of the wraiths, omen bairn projectiles, and the omen fire, is also the same as the deathblight fire of the eclipse shotel and the mausoleum knights - the only difference being that the fire on these weapons build up the deathblight status. The relevant item descriptions and dialogue talk of the "soulless" demigods and an eclipse of the sun which was meant to grant them life. It all seems to reinforce the idea that the wraith fire is a result of being soulless and separated from the cycle of life and death in the age of the Erdtree - a quality shared between the omen and those who live in death.

[@delphynenull2136]

Worth noting as well that Morgott actually has small vestigial wings on the back of his hips too, though they're hard to see under his cloak.

[@nightscout9979]

I think those are just more horns, akin to the horns on his tail.

[@thedankswordsmantm]

Just started the video, dunno if this comes up later or if I missed it, but you said something that made something click in my head. That the age of the crucible is an age of unrestrained, chaotic, primeval life represented by excessive growth. In my mind it made me associate the crucible with "freedom". And then I realized everything from that time has been caged, chained and constrained. Horaloux took on Serosh and an axe to control himself, the lions are in shackles, the omen are locked away, the crucible knights are discarded. I dunno if I have a bigger point about that but the image struck me.

[@painfullight]

Love the content it’d be cool if you released these lore videos on platforms like Spotify as a podcast I’d love to listen to it while going for a walk

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks for the feedback James, we are looking into doing this soon!

[@sethedward]

I always thought his “defilement” had something to do with him putting his hand up the bum, very viciously given the blood left behind. As I was typing this, I see you to smough share the same thoughts on the matter. Nice👌🏻

[@BigPapaKaiser]

"Seed and defile, Tarnished, until it is done." (c) Dungslayer.

[@sadhomie9294]

Another fucking amazing video from SmoughTown. The Hawkshaw video about Omenkillers was (and maybe still is) my favorite ER lore video (as well as the one that got me into the topic), this one was so in depth, descriptive of all the aspects of the curse, and so revealing into the nature, name and reasoning behind the Dung Eater that it sent shivers down my spine. Thank you for all you do, SmoughTown.

[@SmoughTown]

Hawkshaws videos are superb, both the Perfumer and Colour ones - such insight! Thanks so much for the support my friend

[@etinarcadiaego7424]

I feel badly for the Omen. I'd even give them a hug if they weren't so busy trying to slaughter me lol of course, every other living thing in the Lands Between is trying to do that as well so I don't take it to personally!

[@ultra824]

Something about the omen-crucible connection doesn't sit right with me. The misbegotten are chaotic chimeric blends, but it all fits together fairly neatly; they're symmetrical, and their extraneous parts don't seem to hinder them. By contrast, the Omen are misshapen and twisted, with the horns growing out of their bodies at seemingly random locations and orientations, often even growing back into the body. they're presumably connected to the crucible _somehow_ but something's fundamentally different here. My best guess is as follows: the omen didn't exist at all before the age of the erdtree, rather they're an echo or manifestation of the other sprouts that were suppressed as the crucible period drew to a close, an expression of the potential that went unrealized when the possibilities were narrowed to one. Their twisted shapes came about because of the suppression of the shoots they originate from. This also fits well with your read on the perfumer narrative. If omen were a known phenomenon already, the condition's incurable status would likely have been known already. To me it makes more sense if this was a response to a new and unexpected affliction.

[@NihilisticRealism]

Tails are not usually for ballance, but for aerodynamic dystribution of scents and for displays of communication

[@Rakebab1]

I loved the omen and the lore. Glad to see a lore video on them and am so excited for the Morgott video.

[@evanlaslo289]

It's interesting to consider the implications of Mohg and Morgott being born cursed whereas their brother, Godwyn, died cursed. As well, how you mentioned the separation of body and soul, and how that relates to Omens and wraiths, Ranni and Godwyn, and so on. I remember seeing something about how "Misbegotten" was originally "Radagon's Children/Chimera" which would explain their distinct blonde (Marika) or red (Radagon) hair, and may also somewhat explain the Misbegotten Crusader; it seems the Misbegotten may have been fodder in holy wars, and sometime honored, although to a lesser degree than they were worshipped in ancient ages. There are also parallels between Radagon as a "laborer who led a rebellion, and later became a champion" with the "strength of a giant" (source: Brick Hammer) and the Leonine Misbegotten who led the Castle Morne rebellion with the Grafted Blade Greatsword, inspired by a similarly red-haired Radagon. (Note: Marika's Hammer mentions Radagon's "signature move", so he likely used that move with the Brick Hammer before [spoilers].) TLDR: Marika/Godfrey/Radagon seem to birth cursed children, from the Omen twins to thee Rot/Youth twins, and their children are tied to ancient forces/curses.

[@coreyrachar9694]

I think this might be your best video yet.

[@SmoughTown]

Thank you Corey! I really enjoyed the subject matter

[@miomio6890]

A group of people with fire magic being shunned by the Golden Order who punishes those who even *dream* of fire? God forbid! Jokes aside, it's really heart-warming to see fandom come to general consensus about topics and work together, and use it as a springboard for further theories. I really enjoyed the theory that perfumers were first physicians for the omen children. At the time of the first omen being born under the current system, it would make sense that people didn't panic at first: the appearance, at least from the knights, would've been familiar. Besides, royalty wasn't wont on killing their children and possible heirs, and would've spent good money on curing them. I think they'd have tried everything to first save their children before finally agreeing with the general consensus of locking them up. Another reason why the reminders of the crucible might be shunned is that no current ruler likes to be reminded of their predecessor. It's difficult to consolidate power and authority if e.g. half your men are loyal to your father and not you. Constantly seeing "where the Erdtree came from" to those who follow it would feel wrong because it reminds them that if wasn't always there or allpowerful, and that there are potentially just as strong competitors. It also suggests that if can be unmade and replaced. It's blasphemy to FO! I mean just look at real life when people are told that God (Yahweh) had a father, a wife, and siblings but he was chosen to be exclusively worshiped by the Israelites and became Elohim. To a regular Roman Christian, or Orthodox, that would sound like absolute blasphemy.

[@thelionofjudah5318]

God is all knowing and powerful he has no father or creator. He is the beginning and the end. He is the creator of all things that’s why he sent his son Jesus Christ(God living as a man) to die for our sins. He is a just and holy perfect God.

[@poopsymcloopsy]

@@thelionofjudah5318 damn, came running out of the gate eager to prove their point.

[@thelionofjudah5318]

@@poopsymcloopsy there’s misinformation that I need to clarify

[@poopsymcloopsy]

@@thelionofjudah5318 neat. And back when he had parents and a wife or whatever they were equally certain that was true. Can't spread misinformation over something that's faith based because if there was any actual information about the thing you have faith in it wouldn't be faith at all.

[@thelionofjudah5318]

@@poopsymcloopsy God is NOT a man. He is a being beyond your thinking comprehension. Jesus Christ is the mediator between God and man. He is the visible image of the most high. Catholics aren’t Christian’s they are religion that uses order and control most of the world. If you actually read the bible they do not match with followers of Christ at all in fact they follow paganism.

[@artoriapendragon3234]

I feel like this is further proof of Ranni's ending being the best. By removing the Greater Will, by removing the Erdtree, not only are you removing Erdtree burial, you are simultaneously bringing back normal death which was held back by the Elden Ring's mere presence, and thus you save not only those who live in death like Fia, but the Omens as well. Ranni was right to fear the Greater Will. She feared it so much more when her mother's heart was broken and the truth of Radogan was revealed to her. Even if it meant killing her half brother, the Shattering had to be necessary.

[@Funkiotologist]

Finally… the Loathesome Doug Eater

[@SmoughTown]

My boi finally getting his side of the story covered

[@Funkiotologist]

@@SmoughTown Amazing vid as always btw, watching this community develop has been a genuine honor. Your videos have amazing production value, I’m so thankful for you and your work 💪 🙌 My hope for a future dlc is to see creatures from the Age of Crucible and because of the hints towards time travel I wonder if that may be so 🧐

[@SmoughTown]

@@Funkiotologist You are so kind - it has been amazing watching the community grow and develop! Same, I would love a visit to that primal, bestial era!

[@artoriapendragon3234]

Endings from worst to best and why in my theory. Frenzied Flame ending: Well yeah we know why. Age of Fracture: Nothing Changes, and according to Fromsoft, stagnation is the bane of all Souls Games. Dung Eater's Ending: While Omens will no longer be persecuted, it doesn't solve anything else if this vid is correct. Fia's Quest: While those who live in Death will no longer be persecuted and its very much implied this is a good ending, this is probably a situation that will eventually play out like the Age of Fire in Dark Souls.. nobody will die.. undead will overpopulate.. and what was once good might be an undead curse. Goldmask's quest: Goldmask solves what is wrong with the Golden Order, that they are governed by gods who are subject to the same prejudices as humans. A perfected Golden Order is now not prejudiced or judgemental. It is better because now both those who live in death and Omens won't be persecuted. However, the curse still exists.. because Erdtree burial still exists.. and the Death Root is still making more Those who live in Death. While those who live in death are now treated better and deserve to be so, is it truly good to keep making more of them? Ranni's Ending: Ranni takes the Erdtree's power.. the Elden Ring.. The Outer Gods.. out of the equation. Everything becomes the same as our normal world is.. Normal mortality, no need for Erdtree burial.. a normal world where magic and miracles might as well be considered fiction.. in other words.. the Lands Between become OUR world.. the Omens and Those Who live in Death are now.. all normal.. they aren't cursed.. they can die normally. outer gods like the Fell God, the God of Rot, and others now have no hold on us. Hell, this might even cure Malenia, something even miquella wasn't able to do by himself. While it is never explicitly said this would happen, it honestly IS a bit along the lines of Occam's razor, and when you consider the benefits of just.. taking away the Elden Ring and the Erdtree's power.. and everything else.. you have to think "No wonder Ranni went through such dark measures to get to this point, it was just.. the best solution to the point it almost mirrors a Thanos Snap of a solution."

[@valeriob36]

Something I do think is interesting is the almost identical coloration of things that cause death blight (especially the Death Flare skill of the Eclipse Shotel) and the wraiths the regal omen summon/ the flame effect caused by Shriek of Milos. I've been wondering whether the black and gold colour combination could have to do with either curses in general, since it could be seen as "tainted" gold (perhaps grace), or something not returning to the erdtree, on one side the wraiths obviously and on the other one Godwyn, the source of all death blight, the explicit source of the Death Flare flames and the alleged original "wielder" of the golden lightning that the Death Lightning is "made of".

[@AndrewWheeler-q1h]

Yo Smaughtown and fellow Elden lore scholars. I have a few ideas that have come to mind since the dlc. Omen are of hornsent descent. Misbetotten are horsent slaves brought to the lands between front the realm of shadow after messmers crusade. Since the rune of death is removed from the golden order, these hornsent slaves are unable to die and therefore they continue to devolve/evolve into misbegotten through the continued existence provided by the Golden order. I have multiple theories and evidence that as far as I can tell is not referenced in any lore videos as of yet.

[@rabbitsinthemoon9183]

Thank you so much for all your lorevideos. They are so informative and very well narrated, absolutely enjoyable!🙂

[@SmoughTown]

Too kind friend. It's my pleasure, thank you so much for the support.

[@MortonFMurphy]

Smoughtown's conclusions are so convincing that I'm actually considering the goddamned Dung Eater as like a weird anti-hero now

[@dylaroo24]

Has anyone thought to explain the existence of the glowing skulls that drop runes? Maybe there just isn’t enough lore on them. My pet theory comes from something I’ve seen maybe a handful of times. Sometimes when I exploring I see one of these skulls fall from the sky, maybe it’s just a game glitch but I felt it was weird. Plus when I looked up these skulls, I found people have actually had a hard time finding them, so I imagine my experience of seeing them fall from the sky is probably decently rare. I believe these skulls come from the Erd Tree, those murals you see of people growing from the Erd Tree, I think these skulls are the result. When you see the mural you see the people growing at the very top, so it makes sense that these are the skulls falling from the Erd Tree. And when you look at the layout of the lands between you are seemingly always moving upward towards the Erd Tree, as if the Erd Tree is based at a high point in the land. So I think these Skulls fall from the Erd Tree and roll through the lands between expanding far and wide. This is my pet theory on these skulls. Let me know what people think.

[@nathreetimesnineequalstwen7172]

I find more spawn based on how many enemies you kill (so excluding deer an d stuff like that*) ^ Just a weird point I find to be "interesting?"

[@dylaroo24]

@@nathreetimesnineequalstwen7172 Hmm, never thought about that possibility. I suppose that would make sense why an avid souls player like myself would find a ton to the point they are literally falling out of the sky, whereas newer players who have never played souls games can’t find any. I still like my idea of them coming from the Erd Tree branches as it was an idea I had even before I saw them fall from the sky. Though when I did I was like “I KNEW IT!!!”

[@zanelexo2846]

"seed bed" is another way of saying testicles too. its another way of saying that their children forever will be cursed with the omen affliction. however the way you tied it to dung eaters name is great. but the item does look like a pair, and are on the lower half.

[@zakeryseaton6719]

Omg I thought mohg looked like margot didn't know he looked like a demon lol

[@quantum_jiggy1602]

45:00 I think that the bell bearings you find are in fact the ‘soul balls”

[@BlestNekun]

I hope they add the wing dive attack the Crucible Knights use with the DLC. Maybe not the long dive, but a slam or something. It's too bad it's not already there. 😎🍻😎

[@Fancy_Pants_Dan]

I was a little late on commenting, but rest assured, I watched this bad boy day one! Your videos are always a treat to watch, and I get excited every time I see the notification. You have helped me sleep for some time now, and I like to listen to these videos on my walks. You are doing a wonderful service, and I wanna thank you again for making such detailed videos.

[@SmoughTown]

Thanks Daniel! Really appreciate the support.

[@BeesAcrossTheRockies]

I think it’s kinda funny how Melina is singularly devoted to preventing the player character from picking Frenzy but doesn’t have a problem with you aiding a serial killer and repeatedly eating his ass in a sewer with corpse parts until he can become god

[@nicodemusedwards6931]

Something odd I noticed is that there aren’t any Omen at the Haligtree. You’d think people like them would flock to Miquella’s side. But… they just aren’t there.

[@jungtothehuimang]

I have never done the dung eater ending and I never will I just find him extremely grotesque and I always just kill him the second I get to his cell

[@SmoughTown]

Hopefully this will change your mind (somewhat)

[@jackbelmont4389]

Same Im planning on shanking him in the cell cause i don't want him to get to lobster man.

[@insertedgynamehere___969]

Why kill him when you can enslave him? I turn him into a puppet

[@nw1317]

This was s fantastic deep dive into omen lore, I'm super excited for the Morgott episode

[@2265Hello]

I always thought that the black gold flame were wraiths aka souls that seem to accumulate towards omens. I wonder if there are occult concepts relating to this.

[@SmoughTown]

Yeh there is 100% a lot to be unpacked there and I do my best to dive into it.

[@2265Hello]

@@SmoughTown horns in elden ring seem to have a connection to a theme of “an accumulation of souls” looking at the deer boss too. But that one is linked more to vitality(/alchemical spirit?) than souls themselves well at least to me.

[@SmoughTown]

@@2265Hello Yeh totally agree and the Omen/Dung Eater seem to be able to 'manipulate' these souls as 'powers' but are also haunted by them

[@mitchfindergeneral]

This may be my favorite lore video on Elden Ring so far, and I've watched many!

[@SmoughTown]

That's so awesome to hear! Thank you so much

[@the-real-Lovefist]

The loathsome Dung Eater