Bad Game Design - Donkey Kong 64

Donkey Kong 64 is a beloved game by many, myself included when I was younger, but when I played it again recently I realized there are so many things that could have been done better! Let's talk about it in the first ever BAD GAME DESIGN. Enjoy, I put a lot of effort into this one. And please tell me your thoughts on the game in the comments below, I'd love to hear it!
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[@Magmava]

When you use a dead person for clickbait smh

[@lightningxd9505]

and then theres Chunky He’s Dead ... Huh! DK, Chunky’s dead

[@Agentmoss22]

@@lightningxd9505 *D-D-D-DK CHUNKYS DEAD*

[@AlexRiversMusic]

Have >person

[@maruchan_3479]

Lightning Awsome DK Now the song is over!

[@Dennispacito]

Jaystation finna make SUMMONING CHUNKY KONG AT 3 AM CHALLENGE

[@555elohwssa8]

How dare you put chunky in the thumbnail, he’s dead

[@pixel_6493]

AND THEN THERES CHUNKY

[@tealarlo]

@@pixel_6493 lol

[@slytheguy6988]

DK! Chunky's dead!

[@tekayo63]

@@pixel_6493 he's dead. *Awkward silence*

[@themaskedman8377]

@@slytheguy6988 NOW THE SONG OVER

[@thedinofromdinoshittybeat3434]

Choose your power Style Grace >A funny face

[@stanstanstan2597]

George Saffos >:0

[@ECL28E]

and a coconut gun

[@Copyright_Infringement]

CG! Coconut Gun! CG! Cococonut Gun!

[@eldiglett]

the style of reviving chunky kong

[@pentelegomenon1175]

style: none grace: none face: funny

[@DynastyOSX]

I didn't realize how mixed of a reception this game had until many years later. Say what you want, but this is in my top 20 games of all time. Very fond memories

[@firenze6478]

Top 5 for me, best collectathon

[@VS-lr6zb]

Me too. The ost gives me chills

[@ijustbevibin0425]

Same for me and I haven’t even played it😂😭 I’ve only ever watched my big cousin play but now I got I switch and I wish they remade it or at least done the same thing as the Mario deluxe and put three old games in with only little changes

[@MR.__G]

I still remember waking up Saturday mornings, making some egos, then playing this game lol as a 8 year old this game was extremely difficult 😂

[@michaelkillebrew3114]

My Favorite 64 Game. This guy is acting like he's programmed better games IN 1999!!!!

[@JuiceBoxWizard]

"What? DK64 was a masterpiece!" *Watches Video* "Fair point."

[@PkmariO64]

I agree, but even the best of video games have flaws...

[@JuiceBoxWizard]

+PkmariO64 NintendoFan Yeah, this video raises a lot of good points. I never really thought about it before, but the game is very backtrack heavy.

[@PkmariO64]

+JuiceBoxWizard I hate back tracking, especially when you have to switch a character every five seconds for one or two bananas.....

[@JamesDavy2009]

+JuiceBoxWizard Especially in the beginning when you unlock a new Kong.

[@Domarius64]

+JuiceBoxWizard I'm curious, did you play Banjo Kazooie before this? This is a lame rip-off of BK basically. Everything you like about DK64, BK did it better.

[@froakie1404]

I would LOVE a remake of this game that allows you to press a button on the D pad to switch Kong’s. That literally fixes almost everything about this game

[@EdxSarxNatxChoc]

Like Harry Potter?

[@jarretticeearthguard8614]

Nah I like it as is.

[@froakie1404]

I haven’t actually played DK64, but all of the gameplay I’ve seen it looks like the backtracking to the tag barrel looks like the worst part of the game. I plan on playing it at some point though

[@flameflareonog]

Also that godforsaken DK arcade game

[@DavidWildmouth]

A remake would be absolutely cherished by me. The remake should include, among many other things, THE ABILITY TO DELETE THE FU@#ING BANANA FAIRIES!!!!!!

[@sondergamescondensed2185]

What I really appreciate about this kind of video essay compared to some others I've seen is that what you're showing in the video actually matches what you're talking about at basically all points. It's very appealing and something under-appreciated.

[@Mr_Norbs]

Except at 1:02 when talking about the good parts of the game while the bunny race is on screen

[@hugoisaacmartinez]

What I did as a kid to make it easier on the collectables was just sticking to one Kong only until I got all of most of the collectables and THEN I'd switch them, it makes the game more enjoyable to me

[@littlemonster5892]

I'm 99% sure this is how the game was meant to be played.

[@heckinbasedandinkpilledoct7459]

Wow, that sounds like....common sense lol. This video was nitpicking at its finest.

[@Oolong_Slayer_99]

I recently played this game again after buying an N64 If it wasn't for the collectibles the game wouldn't last long at all, my save is currently around 83% with a playtime of 28 hours, you take those collectibles away and It would easily be done in less than an hour because the only purpose would be defeating the bosses in each area, it would make the rest of each level pointless, people like to moan about very little things, to me this game was almost flawless the only issues for me were the arcade games and beaver bother, everything else was perfect

[@MintyMit]

@@heckinbasedandinkpilledoct7459 well then people would have to play the levels 5 times which is another issue entirely

[@heckinbasedandinkpilledoct7459]

Minty Mit why is that an issue? Replay value on a level is good.

[@jangotack]

I love how Chunky whispers "Tiny" when you go to select him

[@TheGoombaFromNowhere]

Did you know that in DK64 Tiny is older than Chunky? WHAT THE FU-

[@moka6058]

@@TheGoombaFromNowhere Definitely took me by surprise as well. She's also his cousin which might explain why he feels comfortable shoving the player onto her instead

[@TheGoombaFromNowhere]

Here’s how the Kong family tree works: Cranky was the original DK, and he and Wrinkly had DK Jr. He got together with SOMEONE and had the modern DK and and an unseen brother. His brother got together with someone had Diddy. Dixie is from a completely different family. She has to parents who had her and Tiny, and one of the had a brother who had Chunky and Kiddy with someone.

[@mikeasllani6972]

@@TheGoombaFromNowhere I always thought Kiddy was Dixie's brother

[@Jopo1226]

Also he does this even IF you haven't unlocked Tiny yet.

[@gracefullynadine864]

Still, I've often said Rare was the best developer on the N64. When I make a top ten, I always notice a huge chunk all came from Rare. Star Fox, Conker, Banjo, Golden Eye and Perfect Dark are just classics.

[@markasscop]

star fox wasnt by rare

[@gracefullynadine864]

markasscop Arev Huh, you're right. They developed the first one, so I guess I just assumed they made the sequel

[@gracefullynadine864]

Wrong again. They only made Star Fox Adventures... Google fu fails me today

[@markasscop]

wait why look it up? the rarware logo never appears in star fox 64

[@gracefullynadine864]

markasscop Arev I don't own it on the 64 currently, so I was pulling from memory

[@chrislees1965]

The worst part of DK 64 is Beaver Bother, change my mind.

[@carrie_is_gay]

*Best part of DK 64 ftfy

[@LunaVi]

I'm currently playing trought the game again for the first time in YEARS. I got it on the 14TH TIME, god it sucked!!

[@therealMrA]

No one who finished the game would disagree with this

[@TetanusBooster]

I see your Beaver Bother, and raise you the Crystal Caves beetle race.

[@MDsSeltaro]

2 of my N64 controllers would also agree with that statement

[@montesguitar]

The actual worst part of the game was when you bought it used. Then putting it into the 64 and finding out that you needed an expansion pack.

[@IceInVeins916]

montesguitar do you really? So what did you do

[@montesguitar]

@@IceInVeins916I had to convince my dad to go buy me a new expansion pack from target for about 30-35 dollars at the time.

[@jpbarraza7392]

I do agree with that

[@Cat4evr]

That's why you should have bought the n64 dk green console instead!

[@MrHomelessHobos]

@matt fahringer wow! What useless input! Thanks for adding absolutely nothing to the conversation!

[@NitroRad]

This is a fantastic video. Not just because you found what didn't work, and why, but you thought of things that COULD work in their place!

[@snomangaming]

+NitroRad Hey thank you :) I thought it would be pointless to just rag on the game without trying to think of some solutions

[@CriminalIntent89]

yikes

[@Nicholas_Steel]

Yeah, he found things that would result in a completely different game!

[@petelee2477]

@@snomangaming you would be amazed at how many youtubers do just that, present problems and make no attempt to find a solution

[@jjs32stepstoenlightenment37]

Hey nitro rad how’s your day

[@The_Riot]

I'm gonna be honest: When I first clicked on the video I thought it was gonna be some unappreciative guy bashing what is one of my all time favorite games, but as the video wore on I found myself agreeing more and more with the issues and evidence presented. Well done on the video man. You earned this sub.

[@Bigcrusha16]

My thoughts exactly! I saw his title and the "Nostalgia Ogre" in me started screaming like a tantrum child at this obvious clickbaity bitch whiny rant. Then I watched, got at the flaws and I realized "snomaN" was ABSOLUTELY 100% right. I remember the many frustrations I've had with the collectibles and camera system but overlooked those flaws because my 10 year old self didn't know what a badly designed game was, I just concluded that I was bad at playing it. Above all, I remember how limiting it felt, not having all 5 Kongs available at the beginning. Entering a huge adventure filled stage for the first time. The way my heart raced ready explore!..... Only to discover 50+ sectioned off areas that only certain Kongs could access, just to piss off my peanut brain and hinder progress. Banjo-Kazooie on the other hand did exactly what DK64 didn't, it made the 2 characters work as one to complete tasks, they will both always be classics to me. Banjo however might have been the better adventure game.

[@TheDoomMaster]

Cameron Nurmi Same here.

[@haingis]

well... I couldn't remember why I disliked the game as a child (I was 10), but it's all coming back to me after watching this video. I do have some rather subjective reasons as well as the things he mentioned, but fuck me! my personal opinions are unimportant as hell in this particular case so I won't even go there.

[@MariusIhlar]

Saaame!

[@cozy8887]

Same here. Great analysis.

[@adrianasmithy664]

Bad Game Design - Beaver Bother

[@Vigriff]

Fuck those beavers.

[@saya1121]

DK64 is my GAME! I love it to bits. I had to watch this video. I can agree that the mini-games weren't the best, but I personally think everything else was so fun and unique. The collecting wasn't an issue for me. I liked playing as all of them. Even if they weren't all working together per se, I enjoyed the uniqueness of each Kong. Good video regardless.

[@eligarcia367]

he has a point with the camera angle believe me its hard

[@GiordanDiodato]

Still better than Mario 64's camera.

[@GiordanDiodato]

***** There's always Tomb Raider's camera (which is also BAD and it has tank controls :D)

[@GiordanDiodato]

***** the original

[@KAXSH]

Just press the R button you turd (-_-)

[@Blade-hf9po]

The camera can be hard if you let it. The bit he showed with Diddy in the Angry Aztec place, he's using the wrong camera angle there, it's obvious he's gonna fall, or the "tongue" retracts itself before he gets to the other side.

[@ImmaFarmerInMalaysia]

Having to use specific kongs for each collectible is actually precisely why I love the game so much. :P

[@matthewogle2621]

+Luigi Linguine Agreed! He had an interesting POV though.

[@Flydroi]

I found it to be tedious and felt like it added a ton of backtracking to switch kongs over and over. That's just my opinion though! Still loved playing it as a kid

[@BeanSparrow]

same here it is not a bad design it is a good design

[@austin1470]

I agree with his points. The biggest problem is that the gameplay between characters should've flowed better, but it's not Rare's fault. The limited memory for the N64 had to be a pain in the ass. That's what made Super Mario 64 so special. It had limited hardware but the maps gave the route to the stars different so it felt like each path was different and it was smooth from star to star.

[@claytongrange2137]

I think if more levels placed their collectables more like Kreepy Castle and less like Frantic Factory, it could've been MORE fun.

[@beefusmaximus2030]

One thing I do love about this game is the humor, though. I love how Chunky is such a wimpy baby and immediately starts worshipping the dragon boss out of fear.

[@mycatcoco2603]

bruh the dk rap makes this game pure gold

[@BIaziken2]

CG Coconut gun

[@mcbvideogames]

HE IS QUICK AND NIMBLE AND QUICK AND NIMBLE AND QUICK AND NIMBLE

[@keretor9457]

THIS COCONUT SHIT ISN'T FUNNY

[@baldman7738]

Jack Robinson HIS CONCNUT GUN, CAN FIRE IN SPURTS.

[@mac_sour]

Jack Robinson HE'S THE GUN MEMBER OF THE COCONUT CREW

[@3three3three3three]

D D D D DONKEY DONKEY DONKEY DONKEY

[@thewaterman122]

You hit the nail RIGHT on the head and said it better than I ever could. Just replayed this game because my nostalgia and memories told me that this was the best game ever, but I could not have been more wrong. I found that the entire game dragged and felt like a job, doing tedious grunt work for hours - after I put the game down it felt exhausting, like I just did a load of homework. The core mechanic of the game is running around a giant map to collect colored bananas and going back and forth to the tag barrel to go to the SAME EXACT spot 4 more times. That being said, not only was King K. Rool was one of the funnest bosses in my experience in playing platformers, but the laboratory leading up to getting the last key to fight him was also extremely rewarding, because it felt exactly as you said - cohesive instead of exclusive. I felt a sense of team pride working together with the Kong family to complete the game, and my god if they only made every level like that - this thing could have been something huger. One final thought - I thought the strongest point of the game was the variety of characters to choose from, but it could have been done in a much smoother and more different way. Each Kong had a different feel and personality to them so it kept it interesting until you had to use them each 40 times every world.

[@snomangaming]

Yup, you feel me! Absolutely agreee

[@1m1337noSh1t]

Back then 1 game took months to beat so theres that

[@thewaterman122]

1m1337noSh1t Doesn't matter how long a game is, if the game drags like hell and feels extremely boring 90% of the time, that negates the long-lasting aspect

[@1m1337noSh1t]

thewaterman122 Yes times have changed

[@alanaardman1882]

The problem with your argument is it's actually quite hard to balance the characters while making them unique, and players would stick with their favorite except when forced to switch. This would truncate the length of the game and reduce the difficulty.

[@pentelegomenon1175]

Super Mario Bros 2 lets you switch between characters and it works fine. Also you call it truncating the length and reducing the difficulty, I call it cutting the fat and reducing the pointless busywork.

[@emishimaru-sama6449]

I don't remember If you could change freely In Super Mario Bros 2, unless you either died or finished the stage (unless there was a door for that? =o)

[@joaonitro5149]

@@Russakaja No it doesn't. Forcing players to do something they don't like isn't fun.

[@joaonitro5149]

@@Russakaja No, it didn't. These games are actually fun because they don't force you with shit that isn't fun to play. Also, your english is terrible, i can hardly understand what you're trying to say.

[@joaonitro5149]

@@Russakaja i talking about forcing to do unfun things. Hunting down stars, equipment, jiggies is fun. Backtracking 5 times in the same place only to get some bananas that only a specific kong can get is not fun.

[@AG_Speaks]

Still waiting for the Donkey Kong 64 remaster

[@JOHNCENA-ji3rm]

Yeah me too

[@87Khein]

That would be cool but I would also like a new Donkey Kong game with similar game play. New worlds, better graphics and different enemies since RareWare has the rights to K. Rool.

[@GigaMarX4_213]

@@87Khein Wait doesn't nintendo still own the rights to all donkey kong characters including K rool? (not counting Conker and Banjo whom were in diddy kong racing) Because Nintendo sold rare in 2002 and K rool's last appearance in a donkey kong game was 2007-2008 ish.

[@MR.__G]

Or what about another 3D DK game ?

[@Renoht290]

DK64 is among my all-time favorite games. I just can't stand to dislike anything about it, because of how much I played it years ago - the nostalgic memories of endless fun with friends, playing this masterpiece. But your arguments come from a reasonable and thought-out standpoint. I liked this video because it's well-made and objective. I love everything about DK64, personally, but your criticisms are mind-opening and constructive. In my opinion, some things could easily be overlooked. Quite minor, actually. Nevertheless, great work.

[@metallitron9000]

His reasons were basically the reason why 12 year old me gave up on the game after a couple of levels. I liked Banjo Kazooie and Mario 64 much better.

[@brnk2]

How do you have a verification badge?

[@abstractdaddy1384]

Mind opening? You needed someone to point out these flaws for you to realize they were there?

[@alienxotic5028]

Yup

[@Terapagos3000]

Relying on nostalgia to judge a game or pretty much anything else, is dumb. Different thing already is considering those things in their release time. Furthermore criticism on art can't really be objective.

[@HeeminGaminStation]

"It let's you decide that Dixie is obviously the better choice and you should never choose Kiddie" Haha! yep!

[@55pillsbury]

God the music is amazing in this game

[@darragullrr499]

I thought you were going to say like really bad reasons but you didn’t well done dude

[@ScootLoops616]

i agree with the collectibles it was a little much but didnt bother me. but u wanted the kongs to work with eachother through the whole game and have ur own choice and beat it a different way. That would be a game waaaaay before its time

[@snomangaming]

Yeah I agree, that's why I focused on the future at the end, I want to learn from things in the past to make even better games in the future

[@Toni7926]

Those collectibles actually made me never finish the game. It just felt unnecessary to go through every section 5 times. After some time you'll forgot which sections you have already searched, too.:/

[@Matanumi]

Majoras mask did this way better

[@eliack95]

I hope whenever the next 3D DK is in development, the devs look at this video to.make the perfect one. I loved DK64, but you definitely have some valid points.

[@slueshyslueshy2176]

Except that's what Banjo Tooie did, it had multiple characters that did separate things than enabled them to do other things, while also having things unique only they could do. Banjo and Kazooie on their own, as well as Mumbo.

[@KeatonKnippel]

do a good game design Superman 64. It was my fav game as a kid

[@user-vi4xy1jw7e]

Keaton Knippel Ayyy lmao

[@metasprite5648]

good idea

[@Laughstation]

Such innovative controls.

[@elvampe13]

I'm sorry for you.

[@Tmh21791]

You poor, poor soul

[@Taxafolia]

"Dam what this hater about" "Oh wait yeah, I hated all that shit to no ends"

[@aperson8077]

What

[@Randude14]

The sly cooper series is a good example of having different characters to work together.

[@Umbrella2]

Underrated series, would love them on the Switch too.

[@tipsybun]

No, the stakes were lowered. Mess with DK's bananas, IT'S GONNA HURT

[@Sly_Maverick_19]

Warghost890 C G Coconut Gun

[@halleysasteroid]

King Weedede i have the dk rap in my itunes

[@tipsybun]

Wtf why after people quoting siiva

[@tyke7324]

Do another one of these i loved it!!!

[@snomangaming]

+Tyke There will almost certainly be another one someday :)

[@tyke7324]

+snomaN Gaming yay!!!

[@chrisbeach423]

+snomaN Gaming bubsy 3d would be a good candidate for a video like this.

[@curlyfrieeees]

+snowmaN Gaming i just saw this and loved it

[@jamesbharnocerous1879]

I just picked this game up again after ten years, and I definitely hate having to run back and forth in between the Kong barrel and 15 different bananas of different colors over and over again, but I really do love it. It's dope af.

[@Austinato88]

You brought up some very good points here, but I still love DK 64 even to this day. Thanks for the video!

[@Teirusu155]

you didn't mention how.... FRUSTRATING The Diddy Kong jetpack is to control. The jetpack's obnoxious controls are the reason I never beat the game. I'd waste a HALF HOUR of the Hideout Helm time trying to do the rings.

[@gustavoavila1982]

Teirusu155 I had a harder time with races, epecially the one with Tiny Kong against the blue-purple bug thing in the Aztec level.

[@ChaosShadowZero89]

You beat this game 101%? Mad respect man, i never could make it past those damn minigames and the Fungi Forest boss!

[@capcom23]

In the past I'm sure i would've tried to reach 101% but lately i can't be bothered to achieve/explore everything. Just go as fast to the end and move to the next haha

[@mattsciore1573]

I need to 100% a game. I guess it's a form of ocd lol

[@snomangaming]

Yeah I had a lot of free time as a kid :P

[@capcom23]

Matt Sciore yes

[@mattsciore1573]

So did I however just could not for the life of me beat some of them bosses and mini games! anyways great video, keep up the great work!

[@lssjgaming1599]

And then there’s Chunky. He’s dead

[@braydenb1581]

I wish this had gotten a sequel

[@braydenb1581]

@Terry Mitchell All I'd really wsnt from a sequel is maybe coop and fine tune the controls. I recently replayed dk 64 and its hard to do some challenges because the controls are janky

[@SkyNinja759]

1. DK64 is a good game. 2. DK64 is blighted by collection tasks to the nth degree. 3. DK64 is bug heaven. Oh well, I love the game for what it is, even with all it's imperfections. EDIT: If they remastered DK64 for the Switch/NX with new graphics and with all their knowledge they have now it would be a nice throwback game.

[@thomasmurrell9832]

1. He said it was a good game. Listen at the beginning next time. 2. He dismissed that since other games of the same kind had that many too 3. I agree. It's buggy as heck but fun to explore.

[@maximumrisk2004]

I have to admit, the whole "Every Kong can only collect special Bananas" thing was also the deal breaker for me. I loved this Game, but eventually got tired of the endless Kong switching just to collect some measily Bananas to get those freaking Boss Gates opend and screamed at the Pig to fucking Jump a little so I dont have to go scouring for 20 more Bananas that I missed somewhere. Geez!

[@user-hk1vi9pz9s]

Finally, he's here for you It's the last member of the DK crew He has no pulse And no heart rate THIS KONG is in a better place

[@FourthDerivative]

Almost every problem you mentioned would be solved by adding the ability to switch Kongs anywhere, instead of having to find a tag barrel. You know, like you could do in all three previous games.

[@SmugCoffeeMan]

You want to know what the worst bit of design in this game is? the Nintendo and Rareware coins being required to beat the game 100%. Fuck that DK arcade machine and fuck the other arcade game.

[@H0n3yMonstah]

Mashin Chaser *101%

[@jamesismyfriend4403]

YES!

[@Wahaller]

Not only is it required to beat the game 101%, it's required to beat the fucking game in general. You can't get the boss key to King K. Rool without it, since it's locked behind a door that needs the coins to open it. Probably the worst part about it, aside from having to play some old-school tough games, is that without prior knowledge, you're going to get to the final area of K. Rool's lair and see a locked door requiring 2 objects that you've never seen before, forcing you to exit the level, look up how to get them on Google (in the 90's it was even worse since Google wasn't popular) and beat Jetpac and Donkey Kong, go back to Hideout Helm, and finally, open the door and get the fucking key. *THIS IS FUCKING INSANE!* What was going on in the developers heads when making this section?! Talk about backtracking, like, fucking hell! This one part sums up about the entire gameplay of DK64.

[@H0n3yMonstah]

These just sound like salty comments from people that couldn't beat the arcade games. 😜

[@Wahaller]

+Paul Honey I could beat it, but the fact that you _had_ to beat it is pretty mind-numbing. Did you even read the rest of my comment by the way? I gave some valid criticism other than "hurr its hard it should be removed"

[@SynthLizard8]

I simply got baffled by the levels in general, I had no idea what to do and where to go.

[@heyvitch]

PurpleStorm8 so easy to get stuck

[@Zadamanim]

You can design an open world but still have ways to direct the player. For example, areas that are lit up automatically draw the player towards them, and trails of bananas can lead you in the right direction.

[@jaredhoeft2832]

Yeah the levels are huge to the point of being overwhelming, and the only way they really direct players is through banana trails, but those aren't necessarily good directional advice, and once you collect them, they're gone.

[@jaredhoeft2832]

Maintenance - yeah pretty much. I do still enjoy DK64, but in my mind, Banjo Kazooie is the closest thing we've ever seen to a perfect 3D platform collectathon.

[@AnalSeepageForDummies]

You're probably better off playing 2d games

[@meristuart1838]

HE HAS NO FACE HE HAS NO SOUL IF IF IF YOU CROSS HIM HE’LL TAKE YA *TO HELL*

[@IKR_C]

Donkey Kong is Hannibal Lecter, he wants your face.

[@fishyaustin3350]

The decayed app

[@frankiefaithful]

I was agreeing with you the whole video until the end when I heard the Banana Fairy Isle song. All is forgiven! I forgive Donkey Kong 64 for everything!

[@universaljoyconboyz4ever161]

It is the only dk 3d platformer.... And yet its not made by nintendo. Rare made the game

[@AdamKillmeyer]

Only thing I disagree with is the segregated boss fights. I think those were a bold move but were a great choice. It helps make the player involved with all characters of the game.

[@mrsplays9817]

Technically you can fight the bosses with any character, but it`s nice to know which one the game recommends.

[@RJrules64]

MRS Plays how? The doors close if you approach with a different Kong. I half agree, Adam, but I think they needed to make the boss fights only beatable with a certain Kong, if that were the case. Like the Jack in the Box fight - Only Tiny can do that one. Basically all the other fights could be done with any Kong. So they should have either given us that option, or made the boss fights more specific to that kong.

[@mrsplays9817]

Watch a speedrun: They glitch through the stairs and get in with whatever kong they want. Also, some speedrunners do the Jack in the Box fight with DK instead of Tiny, just to point out.

[@goingcracysfan]

omg please no more jack in the box i keep getting flashbacks

[@spartankongcountry6799]

MRS Plays You need to understand that glitches =/= design.

[@J1428753]

This is the second "obscure yet high quality" game related series I've found in the past *day*. I think KZbin's recommendation algorithms are actually improving...who knew?

[@snomangaming]

Haha well I'm glad you found me :P

[@bidanemartinez-huerta9472]

Donkey Kong said trans rights

[@xavoxido]

I support trans rights

[@FreezinLeo27]

yes

[@xavoxido]

Actually.... Yes

[@ENTR0PY]

@streyar *gasp*

[@downwardtumble4451]

Bidane Martinez-Huerta gross

[@kaldo_kaldo]

Playing this as a kid, none of the things you mentioned seemed like a problem, because I wasn't playing it to 100% it, I was playing it for fun. You unlock different kongs as you go and so the way I played through it was doing as many complete levels with DK as I could, then doing as much as I would with Diddy, then later switching up to the others. I wouldn't switch a bunch of times in one level, I would go through and complete the level as much as possible, and then come back to it later. It was a constantly evolving experience. I can see how switching constantly would make the game extremely tedious.

[@Z-A-C]

This game should have a remaster so that they can have a chance to not only get better graphics on this game, but to fix these problems. It would be perfect. I would get a N Switch If this came out for it.

[@TheAceKannon]

Zomagedon rare is owned by Microsoft. Technically they can’t remaster it

[@inky2412]

@@TheAceKannon well banjo is in smash so we can hope

[@corey9137]

@@TheAceKannon I mean there can always be a partnership of some kind

[@YamatoFukkatsu]

The backtracking was even worse when you consider that not every Kong is available at the beginning of the game. You never get Chunky until Frantic Factory, and suddenly, you have to go back by about 3 worlds to get all his stuff. Anyway, one thing I hated about collectathons in general was how they task you collect all the tiny shit throughout a level, be it coins or bananas or rings or whatever. In previous 2D platforms, this was no big deal. Just collect a hundred of them, and you get an extra life (as well as add to your high score, though that's kinda lost its purpose ever since games went to home consoles). Convenient, but not something you need to do, and in fact, could usually be accomplished in a completely passive manner. But starting from, at the latest, Super Mario 64, this is suddenly mandatory to 100% a game (and in worse cases, mandatory just to complete the game, seeing as you need a certain number of collectibles just to progress). Thankfully, in the case of Mario 64, you just needed 100 coins, which (usually) doesn't equate to practically every coin in a level, but it's still obnoxious as fuck to track them all down (what especially makes these tiny collectibles a pain is that most are right there in plain sight, but then you have to search every nook and cranny in hopes of getting those last few). Banjo-Kazooie was probably the worst offender; track down 100 notes in a level in a single go, without losing a life. Ugh. I'll gladly take DK64's segmented collectibles over that crap. At least those colored bananas get saved the moment you grab them (well, the game doesn't save automatically, but you get what I mean). Thankfully, Rare seemed to have learned their lesson by the time Banjo-Tooie came out, because that was probably the most well-handled of the N64 collectathons. The tiny collectibles are saved individually AND they give them to you in clusters. Though, I can't say I commend the backtracking that game involved (mainly due to worlds being directly connected to one another), but otherwise, it was pretty good. Truth be told, platformers were my favorite genre as a kid. But as of the N64 era, while I still enjoyed them, they dropped considerably in how I favored them, and I'm not sure if it was due to this collecting shit they suddenly forced upon them, the really bad camera controls, or a combination of both along with possibly other minor grievances. I guess I could understand WHY they did this; when going from 2D to 3D, worlds become about free exploration, and the goal's no longer as simple as going from point A to point B (though this was still possible; Sonic did it, but Sonic games have had a horrible time in the 3D realm, and they mainly accomplished keeping "reach the goal" the main objective by severely limiting your range of movement anyway). However, in doing this, it feels like they just turned platformers into a poor man's RPGs (RPGs having always allowed free exploration in a.... kinda sorta three-dimensional plane). Ironically, RPGs have since become my genre of choice.

[@snomangaming]

+YamatoFukkatsu Good point about the jump from 2D to 3D, suddenly the meaningless collectibles became necessary. That was the thing with DK64, every thing had to have a purpose, even if it was totally meaningless

[@JohnSmith-oc2fk]

Banjo Kazooie Music Notes problem was due N64 memory limitations, they solved that issue in the Xbox remasters.

[@luliby2309]

I too, love this game and played it when I was younger, but you have some good criticisms. I thought about the ability to change Kongs on the fly wherever you want in the levels (when appropriate) to help alleviate some of the issues, as then you wouldn't need to essentially traverse a level 5 times as each Kong to do everything...but your suggestions are even better as they allow for interesting different ways to complete levels, collect items, and defeat bosses. However, doing that would require a lot of remaking and rebuilding of an older (but loved) game. Meanwhile, a new mechanic where you can swop between the Kongs when you want is probably a lot easier to add to the game in a re-release and that would help with a lot of what you're talking about.

[@shelagado1379]

Ok, I saw the gameplay you put when you said the game had a bad camera, but what I always did was press the R button on the N64 controller to swing it to the Kong’s back.

[@RainbowLizardOne]

The best design about this game is the DK rap.

[@snomangaming]

+Lizard_Buttock You're not wrong, I absolutely agree :)

[@pizzadudemanguy]

I was so worried this would be a rant against a game I loved as a kid. I'm glad it's such an incredibly thoughtful, perspective video. Awesome job! I love it.

[@snomangaming]

+pizzadudemanguy Thanks! I tried to be very constructive, I know a lot of people really like it

[@robokoolmn]

+pizzadudemanguy Yeah I was worried too, great video.

[@mrnunetoon8351]

your review speaks the truth! as much as i have fond memories of this game with love, i gotta be real; its too time consuming playing different characters for a simple task that can be done in unison. i hear ya about them cameras! The struggle as a 90's kid! lol great vid! keep up the good work! ^.^

[@thomasberry3364]

DK64 was definitely a childhood favorite for me, great video and really awesome ideas for the game play in retrospect.

[@schmity007]

It could've been fixed with just letting you swap Kongs on the fly.

[@TheDeathOfLucifer]

Tbh I think it'd kind of ruin the charm. Walking through the while level as a different character figuring out how to get all the collectibles was sometimes a fun puzzle. It was at times just a lot of back tracking. But tbh if I could switch on the fly I'd really never give some character a chance except when I had to.

[@braden24]

I’m late but Kaze made a Gameshark code that does exactly that, here’s the vid: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZ2xmYaljZqIkJI

[@FloppyDisk893]

Please do more -Good- BAD game design

[@Marc_Tittmann_Music]

SO much respect in your intro speech, love you dude :D

[@jameswitherow5149]

Looking at this game objectively, I can see where you were coming from, at least as far as the bananas, banana coins, and blueprints were concerned. What I don't think was wrong- in fact, I feel that this was the best selling point for that game -was how they separated the Kongs. From a storyline perspective, it made their job all that harder. From a gameplay perspective, it gave a chance for each Kong to show their abilities. Some of what you mentioned about how bosses could have been fought might very well been an idea, but simply wasn't tenable. You have to remember that they didn't have the kind of processing power for the 64 to do those kinds of things. That's why they reused many assets. That's not bad game design; that's working within the limitations of the hardware. By the by; when you originally posted this video, DK64 wasn't 15 years old. It was 17. It came out in 1999.

[@Sypaka]

If this video doesn't give ideas for a rom hack, I don't know....

[@alienxotic5028]

Doubt it

[@jaydogg339]

There's Super Donkey Kong 64 lol it's a rom hack of Mario 64 with DK64s levels and music

[@flameflareonog]

Kaze Emanuar made a major improvement with his rom hack that allows you to switch Kongs anywhere.

[@smalls1485]

Kaze did it

[@RynKen]

It sounds like all the game really needed was the ability to switch Kong through the pause menu instead of at specific check points.

[@calthesquidking5839]

+RynKen Yeah that's what I was thinking. If they had a quick change option instead of having to back track to change, things more than likely would've gone a lot smoother. But, yknow, hardware limitations and all that jazz.

[@snomangaming]

+Demon Lord, Cal (Brandon) Someone else suggested a 5 player co-op mode where each player plays 1 kong, and THAT would be awesome! But speaking of hardware limitations... :P

[@rogerklotz7737]

RynKen yes

[@crashakai1613]

very good video, I love this game, it was the first game I played (and the one that took me the longest), many people hate this game because it is very "difficult" (it took me 12 years to pass it) and I loved how you spoke with great respect for the game, hopefully and nintendo consider making a remake of this jewel and solve the things you said in the video (or at least make a 3d game for dk)

[@doctoradventure413]

I always heard that the backtracking was awful in DK64 so I never played it until I got bored one day and decided to give it a shot and to be honest it's not that bad I agree it can be annoying but there's a certain rhythm to it that I find really enjoyable and the DK arcade cabinet really wasn't that bad it wasn't mandatory to beat and was a pretty fun challenge in my opinion after having to play it over and over again I can now say that I'm really good at the original Donkey Kong

[@pentelegomenon1175]

It's fine but if you're expecting Banjo Kazooie you're going to be slightly disappointed.

[@lilgiantsfan72]

Fantastic, very reasonably constructive criticism!

[@mad_quack]

I'd like to see a remastered DK64 (that does it justice btw)

[@JoeRossProductions]

DK rap remastered

[@AttnDefDis_]

I don't remember feeling this way at all. Maybe my love of Metroid made me not mind the backtracking. I'm with you on the lack of animal buddies, but I love this game overall. I even replayed it about ten years ago and got all the collectibles again.

[@blue3962]

This was my favorite game as a kid too! I'm just so glad someone made a video devoted to this game!

[@davidrlz1001]

plz do more like these, i highly enjoyed the video and editing, you focused on the facts and argument, gave a counter-argument, and didn;t use cringey humor, subscribed off this video, good job.

[@Godzillarex]

Really well written and put together video!

[@luckydannumber2]

Not really several things he missed that could of been said like he could of said all the consoles 3D games had issues at time, include Tomb Raider and Banjo Kazooie. Where the choppiness of the games led to subpar controls due to the limited and 3D platforming a relative new design that just came out .

[@Thobba89]

Clown Man He literally did say exactly that....

[@byronflowerz7340]

Godzillarex this is funny u have 64 likes on ur comment on a video of donkey Kong 64

[@luckydannumber2]

That's the exact problem Timothy. He exactly said that but just focusing on Donkey Kong 64 is a bad idea. Putting in and injecting other more terrible games in the clip like Pysgnois Or Die Trying, shows at least Kong 64 learned from other games mistakes but still retain some of the problems. The video just makes it seem the worst game out of all 3D platformers.

[@boomebox5832]

Godzillarex it is a good video design

[@cincinnatixdxd5055]

You do not have to collect all the collectibles, but for people who want to collect everything they just added a little extra replay ability for completionist by having to do each level on each character.

[@nngnnadas]

how do you beat beaver bother?

[@awah4676]

AOC do you know how to turn on the power in frantic factory in DK64

[@beiwubsnsod7378]

AOC do you know that printing more money increases inflation and that it is impossible to fix every single building in the us

[@awah4676]

@@beiwubsnsod7378 Wait what

[@georgefunes4535]

@@awah4676 lmao

[@YumegakaMurakumo]

As Klaptrap, snap your jaws at that retarded beavers and avoid the pit at all cost by leaping over it. If you scare the stupid beavers at the right time, you'll scare them stupid to where they run into the pit all by themselves. You don't have to constantly be chasing them. Still annoying asf since you're TIMED. Lol I felt pure anger and hatred from childhood 15 years ago when I saw beaver bother in this video. SERIOUSLY F uck that barrel bonus stage!!! 😫😡🤬

[@Chuwaca]

DK64 is the Dark Souls of Collectibles items

[@Thomas-te2lg]

No it ain't, most of game is fairly easy, minus a few very difficult mini-games.

[@a.j.rusinek8856]

Thomas Ruth its a joke m8

[@jpdlpokedigi10]

ayyyy good one

[@yeetyeet_spagheet1720]

Banjo tooie is tho

[@rogerfvb]

Dark Souls doesn't suck though

[@jacobw7454]

Sir, I must defend this game on the basis of Lanky Kong. I understand he lacks both style and grace. Some even say he has a funny face. But he can handstand when he needs to, and stretches his arms out just for you. Additionally, he inflates himself similarly to the Hindenburg. Most importantly, however, this kong just digs this tune.

[@roddydykes7053]

And let's not forget, the Kong who's here for you, the last member of the DK crew, the Kong's so strong, it isn't funny, he makes bigger kremlins cry out for mummy! He picks up boulders, with relative ease, makes crushing rocks seem such a breeze, he may move slow, he can't jump high, but Chunky Kong's, one FUCK of a guy!

[@roberthata6732]

DK!!!! Donkey Kong!!

[@sendo427]

Lately I've been playing old games from when I was a kid with my son and I couldn't believe how bad everything felt like the controls and the camera as well as the frame rate.

[@domm.427]

I really think that this was genuinely a great game for it's time, it's just that a lot of it's design conventions have become outdated since then and this has alienated a lot of the people who are too young to remember the era it came from. There's so much yet-untapped potential in the genre that it's a real shame that we didn't get the big revival that we wanted despite the hype at the time this video was uploaded, but I hold out hope that 2017 won't be the last significant year for games like this and that a new studio like Naughty Dog, Insomniac Games, or Rareware will breathe some much-needed new life into the scene and make it truly relevant again someday

[@Xiphiidae]

"Why are games these days so linear?!" "Why do these old games have so much backtracking and options?!"

[@snomangaming]

+James S It has options, but only if you use a specific kong in a specific situation. Fungi Forest was even worse: Oh, you can enter this barn, but only if you have Lanky out, and only if its nighttime (one of like 10 examples in that level). It's not even the backtracking, I seriously didn't really care about that, but the whole game was such a chore because I only did things alone with all the kongs.

[@Xiphiidae]

+snomaN Gaming "only if you use a specific kong in a specific situation" Do you realise that this is as asinine as saying "Zelda games are bad because you have to use particular items in particular situations" or "Zelda Oracle of Seasons is bad because you have to switch between the seasons to progress through the game- I want to complete the whole game just on Summer!" The notion that it's bad that you need to do particular things with particular Kongs is so bizarre that, honestly, it barely qualifies as a criticism. If you don't like the game because of various things, that's fine, I'm not going to tell you what to like or dislike, just don't refer to it as a 'game design flaw'.

[@randomguy6679]

James S I'm sorry is this your video?

[@MoundN]

randomguy6679 He perfectly stated out what many ppl here were thinking. Those objectives and options are NOT a bad game design. I could accept that you count the camera from dk64 as bad design but it was their first 3D game and for that they did an awesome job. It has many collectibles but it offers such a huge variety. Having to visit the places repeatedly with different Kongs is pretty unique and a brave step into new video game design atleast when the game came out. He was simply bragging about little things which may be a little annoying but he stated that as bad game design which is absolutely not correct.

[@thomasmurrell9832]

"Zelda games are bad because you have to use particular items in particular situations" Well at least you never had to run back the the start of every dungeon, enter a room, and select a small list of items to use. LoZ games have every item right at your disposal, so that argument is not relevant. Besides, he's not saying the game is bad. At the START OF THE VIDEO, he said that it was still a GOOD game. Am I the only one who listens fully anymore?

[@victikirby15]

I’d love to see more “Bad Game Design” videos from you. This has long been one of my favorite videos of yours, and it’s always fascinating to see how a game manages to screw up in a unique way.

[@Cj-cv4wb]

I feel like the segmentation and backtracking is what I love about the game, but that may be because my playstyle is stick to a kong in a level until running out of things to do with them then switching, so I never felt franticly needing to constantly tag barrel. I do wish It used the animal buddies more though.

[@Eversoul12]

This is the intended way to play. I really dont see why most people just dont understand this. youre not meant to change every single time you see a different colored banana. youre supposed to remember where they are for later. It always felt good when you remembered where certain things were with certain kongs after a few hours. It tested your memory and spatial awareness.

[@lewis9s]

What is it with Rare and making lairs be the Protagonist / Antagonist’s head?

[@uraveragehomophobicdude2643]

Banjo Kazooie doesnt do that

[@CapnCoconuts]

@@uraveragehomophobicdude2643 Gruntilda's Lair is Grunty's head.

[@Wahaller]

Good Game Design - Banjo Kazooie

[@Domarius64]

+Wahaller YES - and DK64 is just a rip off of it. It feels like they just churned it out because people expected them to make a 3D DK game at some point, and filled it with a lot of collectables and backtracking for lastability instead of gameplay.

[@Rusticabcd]

Bad Game Design Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts.

[@DT_Worlds_Strongest_Goth]

and tooie

[@jacksonpercy8044]

Well to be fair BK:N&B had pretty good design, but it was still the wrong game. Think about Link's Crossbow Training. It was a short but fun game, but nobody complained about it because it was just a spin-off. If Link's Crossbow Training was released INSTEAD of Twilight Princess and was the only Zelda game released for a few years, then people would genuinely hate it. It's all about player choice, if the player can't chose to play a standard game, they're gonna be displeased.

[@Domarius64]

Jackson Percy It's very sad. You can see beautiful open environments in BK:N&B like it was made to explore - and it was. But they changed it to vehicle creation halfway through. Even the teaser announcement video suggested it was going to be an adventure game. Apparently MS said that collectable games were getting boring so the team had to do something new and different.

[@andreascrissangelmuseum1482]

I'm currently replaying DK 64 and I too used to get frustrated and overwhelmed by how much each character had to do. I used to switch characters every few minutes when I saw something another character had to pick up or do. This go around, I take it one character at a time. Do everything Donkey has to do in a level, then switch to Diddy, etc. Sometime characters do have to hit switches, open doors, etc. for each other, but even then, I'm careful not to get side-tracked. Once I got this "system" down, it's not so bad.

[@mr.jeffinizor2713]

This game scared me as a kid, I don’t know why but something about the ambience on king k tools boxing match scared me...

[@sonicstage1]

You say this is bad game design but I lived for all this backtracking playing this game as a child.

[@CrayTrey]

BUT BUT BUT Donkey Kong 64 was my CHILDHOOD! Why would you insult my CHILDHOOD? It was my CHILDHOOD and now you wrecked my CHILDHOOD with this video about my CHILDHOOD... Great vid buddy

[@Imperialspy]

Your Childhood got Roasted by SnomaN

[@snomangaming]

+CrayTrey IM SORRY TREY FORGIVE ME

[@toasty8120]

3 words: MOVING ICE PATH

[@hgromnsygodhmrsamhsewpdmaghsod]

big gay mip

[@Sporkinator]

Play the DK bongos as soon as you enter that room, and the path won't move. Best glitch ever!

[@wwa_minuet]

Two words coconut gun

[@JJULLER]

why is your name big gay?

[@zmmayer]

You really summed it up for me- I couldn’t quite put it into words the way you did, but I have the exact same criticism that made me lose interest and stop during Fungi Forest. Still, the game has such good nostalgia vibes from my childhood that I can’t help but keep a special place in my heart for it!

[@NileForce2214]

Okay buddy, you have officially crossed the line

[@RATCHET7]

Why do people complain about the amount of collectibles? That's my favorite thing about the game.

[@snomangaming]

I think I said specifically that it doesnt really bother me that much, the more the better.

[@RATCHET7]

Same here i think that it gives it more value and say if you come back to the game after a while it's going to be harder to remember where it all is.

[@ShyGuyXXL]

When people nag about the amount of collectibles, they only do so because collecting them feels like a chore. If they were all fun to collect people wouldn't care how many there are.

[@PlusUltraAdrian]

The problem is that unlike in games like Banjo Kazooie, Mario 64, Jak and Daxter, and Spyro where they made collecting items fun and motivating. Donkey Kong 64 went way overboard with the process of collecting items. The need to switch Kongs over and over again to get an item was boring and annoying. It made the game repetitive.

[@RATCHET7]

I guess so. I found it fun myself as i found it different to a lot of other collecting games.

[@chrismccole9778]

Please make more of these, they are both helpful, and interesting. As someone who wants to make games in the future this is one great resource that I can use to make different choices in what I plan to create. Thanks!

[@snomangaming]

Lots more in the works :) Thank you!

[@TimeSpaceMage]

As a rom hacker, I LOVE thinking about ways that games can be improved... because with enough research and time, they really can 😙 Thanks for the insight!

[@the32bitguy]

How exactly do you modify ROMs?

[@Asin24]

Personally I think having stuff for certain kongs is a good thing in terms of having their own custom designed section or even boss fights. They just went too far with bananas and coins.

[@nincrony3718]

They should just have allowed the player to choose between Kongs whenever they want and it would've been the perfect game

[@darian6423]

It's been almost two years since this came out, and you still haven't made another "Bad Game Design".

[@GalekC]

Interesting...

[@JlBUNROCK]

WHAT? NOOOOO! I'M NEW TO THE CHANNEL SO I WOULDN'T KNOW!! D':

[@kaldo_kaldo]

There aren't any other games bad enough to make a video about! Eyyyyyyyyyy (I love DK64 haha)

[@lapthom]

@Nick Miller what about Turok 2 n64 version?

[@Safer7Sephiroth]

the big problem with DK64 was it's short dev time of 17 months, if you watch a speed run of the game you learn that things like walls are a mere suggestion for this game.

[@jacob3812]

bro , that's not just dk 64, pretty much every n64 game is fucking busted.

[@Safer7Sephiroth]

oh, I know, believe me I know, It's just that DK64 is especially bad.

[@kingpinhundredheadedshadow6595]

U know it never hurts to have a few criticisms of a masterpiece has it issues they need to be addressed for future reference

[@skipfred]

Maybe they assumed no one would be obsessive enough to try to collect every single banana