SNS 285 Part 1: RV Hydraulic Cylinder

This week I begin the disassembly of an RV elevating cylinder that is not holding pressure. I discovered upon inspection that this cylinder is not one that you can simply take apart. It's fully welded and much be cut apart in order to remove the piston and rod. Part one of this week will cover taking this cylinder apart. I'll have a second part of this SNS that will cover some other activities going on in this shop this week.
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[@paulhunt598]

I repaired a John Deere power steering cylinder that was welded fully welded. We turned the rod end cap weld very carefully in the lathe to only just cut through the cylinder wall and not hit the sealing area. It worked and allowed the piloted cylinder cap to slip out of the cylinder. I replaced the soft parts and then used recorded dimensions and match marks to clock it and set the proper cylinder length and welded it closed. I took precautions to not heat damage the soft parts. It was a lot of work, but the seal kit cost a few dollars, but a replacement cylinder was approaching $1000... If you could find one...

[@paulhunt598]

I said we cut off the rod end, but now that I think about it, we cut off the butt end like you did.

[@abpsd73]

I play around with older JD garden tractors. All the cylinders are fully welded. Usually oddball sizes too that are difficult to find a non-OE replacement. When I built a tractor with power steering, I used an implement cylinder and made my own linkage.

[@TheBrokenLife]

Same story on my Cub Cadet implement lift cylinders from the '70s.

[@fredohnemus7685]

Can tell you exactly about the welds you cut. Yes I said welds. All that splatter tells me, that the parts were first welded back together with a mig gun. The size of the splatter tells me, it was a cold weld. Also the parts were not real clean, hence the porosity that showed when you ground down the second weld which was a sub arc weld. The first weld was what we called a string bead pass. It prevents burn through from the sub arc weld. I'm positive that the porosity never leaked once the sub arc was completed. The glob as you called it was the overlap that was too long. 33 years experience, running mig and sub arc welders at a plant that makes wheels from garden size tractors to the giant earth movers. The giants are what I worked on mostly. Experience, not bragging. Just wanted to share that with you.

[@infoanorexic]

One thing about those "not serviceable" components ... you can't lose anything by trying to fix it, you still might get it back, and you learn something in the process, no matter the outcome.

[@abpsd73]

Very true, if she's done buggered, you can't make it any worse. Worst case, you toss away the pieces, get a new one, and hopefully learned a few things along the way that may benefit in the future.

[@asherdie]

Welcome to the world of RV. Everything half-assed enough to get you down the road.

[@771racing]

He spent more time cleaning it then was put into making it.

[@gwharton68]

Welcome to the land of working on and repairing RV's. Nothing is meant to be repaired, just remove and replace. Most RV repair places don't have the personnel to do repairs, just replace it.

[@tomp538]

a quick DuckDuckGo search and I found RV hydraulic cylinders that looked very similar to the one in this video for less than 500 bucks. I wonder what Adam would charge, for this repair, if this were not a "G" job for his mom?

[@samrodian919]

That's it. They are now only just fitters, not mechanics any more.

[@tomp538]

@@samrodian919 Agree about parts fitters. But cost is a big factor in the decision rebuild or replace.

[@JimmysTractor]

I wouldn't charge more than $200 plus maybe $25-$30 for seals. About 1/2 new.

[@JimmysTractor]

RV places have a $125hr rate and take 3-6 months to fix anything.

[@garth849]

Abom! I can't count the number of hyd. cylinders I've repaired and built, and like you said there are more different designs and arrangements than you would ever think, .. but that's the FIRST one I've ever seen with a square anti-rotation guide shaft. Crazy,, but much better than finding a giant spring!!

[@frfrpr]

This show is an adventure. Better than most shows from Hollywood

[@Marfoir0303]

This is an adventure show for Gear Heads 😎

[@AraCarrano]

My Favorite 2x speed content.

[@mrkay1856]

It fantastic to see you're finally getting back to some good old SNS content mate..!!

[@leroyc179]

I hate it when manufacturers design stuff to fail or like in this case welding something together instead of threading it to force the consumer into buying a whole part. Great video Adam, keep 'em coming

[@bjre.wa.8681]

It would have been more work, but with Adams skill set it would be doable to have made threaded (removable) head. The completely welded cylinder seems so irrational. What would happen if Adams repair doesn't seal? I'll have to wait with the rest of you to see how this turns out.

[@PeteRondeau]

Ive been following this RV cylinder repair on Instagram and was looking forward to seeing it in real life.

[@paulcopeland9035]

Yep, this awhile back. Notice that the "Flex-Arm" is not installed yet.

[@matttradie1341]

Invoice- Client- Mom Cylinder repair Plus parts Total due: 1 chocolate cake

[@MazzaRC]

Haven't watched your vids for about 6 months, am now back. Your weight loss is impressive and your passion for your work is awesome to see!

[@bcwrangler]

Great Video Adam....nice to see the RV industry get poked in the eye by fixing their "replace only parts"

[@honeycuttracing]

Glad to see your back on machining, its why I watch your videos!

[@jackcurrence263]

Not a comment on this video so much as a general THANK YOU to Abom79 for sharing his knowledge; I was asked to help a friend of a friend extract some broken exhaust manifold studs from an aluminum cylinder head, and using the "left-hand drill bit in the mill" trick that he (Abom) has shown a few times, all three busted studs were removed with no damage to the head. I fully recognize that there was an element of luck involved (because they don't always come out that easily), but it sure was nice to see those busted studs backing out of their holes!

[@Abom79]

Awesome! 👍🏻

[@worrix1]

I love seeing not just how you fix things but how they work. Thank you for sharing your work with us that wish we had both the tools and knowledge to use them.

[@skeeter50001]

Very good Adam. Your folks picked the right man for the job. Great work as usual.

[@geckoproductions4128]

God bless you for taking care of mom. The cheap stuff meant to be replaced rather than repaired is often a bigger job than it should be. Designed to be thrown away, not fixed.

[@luvstruck2733]

Most people would look at this and say replace the unit. That's why I love this video.

[@johnhiggins9838]

Wow, I growled when I tore down the 4 hydraulic's on our coach. Mine was a breeze compared to what you have. But then again YOU DA MAN..

[@jeffryblackmon4846]

There's nearly 0% chance I'll do such a repair however there are a lot of tips and operations that can be used for another operation. Thanks for taking the time to record this job.

[@2lefThumbs]

Excellent tutorial on the steady rest, thanks👍👍 Shocking that thing is designed to be a throwaway item, good to see some proper repair, as always

[@trailerpark187]

This channel is great. My great grandfather was a machinist/ lathe hand all through the 40s to the 60s. And he is long gone. So I watch your channel and I think this is how he would've taught me how to do it. Thanks for sharing

[@leeklemetti1887]

I have a Winniebago Sightseer RV 2003 that the cylinder would leak a lot when retracting the lifters. (This is a two way cylinder with two hoses.) The rod seals were bad. I ordered new seals. I mounted the cylinder in my Logan 9" lathe with the rod in the chuck. The tail was supported by a 1" diameter plug with a center hole. (There is a 1" threaded part that has a switch in it that I removed.) The flange was left on making it necessary to use the bull gear. I mounted an angle grinder with a 1/16" cutoff wheel. I plunged through the nose weld and removed the nose after grinding away .217 inch wall plus the weld on top.. The bad seal was easy to remove and replace along with a wiper seal. I welded with a Miller MIG welder and it welded great with no leaks.

[@chieft3357]

Nothing is better than prior experience with hydraulics. Good job. 😀

[@rustyguts133]

The piston is off an RV and the industry works on the idea, that if you can afford to buy the unit, you are not likely to complain very loudly about buying a replacement, in this case, a cylinder. Thank you for showing how to make repairs at a reasonable rate. I have worked hydraulic for many years but never encountered an anti-rotation shaft but it makes perfect sense...

[@SynchroScore]

For all the people going on and on about 'why don't you just replace it', that's all fine and dandy...if you can find a replacement. Often it's not just the component in question, but the system it's connected to. Proprietary hydraulic cylinders (basically anything that goes on mobile equipment) are so specific in terms of fittings and mounting style that you often can't find an aftermarket replacement, or you have to pay out the nose for OEM replacement parts, especially for a model that's no longer in production. My first job was in an electric motor repair shop, and it's entirely possible that some of those repairs were more expensive than purchasing a new motor of similar capacity. However, that might require replacing not just the motor, but the motor mounting, the shaft coupling, the motor drive, and it simply might not fit in the space available, especially in a machine tool. A lot of that work was for motors that simply aren't made anymore, and rebuilding an entire machine just to put a new motor in it was far more difficult and expensive than rebuilding the motor.

[@billk9628]

Implied obsolescence! The art of engineering the decay of your product, so that you can create more sales of your product! Companies spend billions on engineers to work with metallurgy, so they can plan just how long they have before the "warranty " wears out! Why do you have washing machines that fail after 6 years, with a 5 year warranty? It's all part of the plan!

[@BerndFelsche]

Good tip on the use of the grinder. Remember that it's the power tool and that you are only to guide it.

[@ryanlukens9280]

Adam, it’s good to see you wearing the proper protective gear while using the Metabo. There are plenty of people new to this type of work and they don’t always get the correct instruction. Thanks for being such a positive influence on You Tube.

[@zmotorsports62]

Nice job Adam. You hit the nail on the head when you said “RV” and “have to sell you a whole unit” in the same sentence. I’ve been an industrial maintenance mechanic my entire career and RV’s are my passion and hobby. In the RV world I’ve found very few parts,especially hydraulic, that are serviceable. The slide rams on my coach are welded just like that. One was leaking internally allowing the slide to creep outward. The dealer quoted me nearly $1k for a new ram, no labor just the ram. I told them I was going to try fixing mine and they insisted it was a non-serviceable component. I ground the end cap off, replaced the seal/packing, reassembled and welded it back together to the tune of a couple nights work and about $65 in parts. That was nearly 8 years and 40+ thousand miles ago and still works like new. I love seeing others repair items like this. Mist rams in the industrial world are serviceable so they are much simpler to repair/reseal. Thanks and great job. Mike

[@bart99gt]

Welcome to the world of RV parts. Everything is designed to be replaced rather than repaired, and designed so that you either have to reengineer the whole system, or buy their RV specific parts.

[@Nighthawke70]

Folks had a hydraulic pump quit working. They consulted for a repair kit for it. And discovers that it's cheaper to replace the full assembly rather have the pump rebuilt. Now the broke unit sits in our shop gathering dust.

[@MaturePatriot]

An engineer, and bean counters, are responsible for the design. Great work to get it apart in good order. See you in part two.

[@TheBrokenLife]

It's the bean counters. No engineer sets off to purposely have a bad design. Not to say there aren't bad engineers...

[@AndrewChilcott100]

Good to see you getting back into repairs and machining content, looking forward to part two and the future projects coming up 👍

[@mannycalavera121]

Exactly. Fully welded to prevent maintenance = $$$

[@thomasutley]

Nice tip squeezing the spring caliper for measuring a groove ID.

[@Abom79]

Thanks Thomas 😁

[@milesbrett7002]

The thing with RV’s is that they build these things to hopefully outlast the vehicle and not ever need to be repaired or replaced.

[@bobvines00]

Adam, this is a fascinating video about how these cylinders were manufactured and work. I'm really looking forward to the follow-on video for this!

[@johnapel2856]

Neat to see a "less than Abom sized" cylinder being worked on. I always enjoy your hydraulic cylinder videos. Thanks, and hello to the Booth trio at the end.

[@phildcrow]

I have to admit, I never get tired of seeing you true stock in a 4-jaw. That would have taken me an hour and a half.

[@ZOMGWTFALLNAMESTAKEN]

something about a machinist with a quiet machine speaks volumes

[@matthewpeck4016]

I really enjoy the repair stuff. New machining is what brought me here, but DIY repair, even if you're a pro, is super fascinating. Thanks Adam!

[@OscarSommerbo]

Until today I never understood why Adam used the four jaw chuck over the six jaw, as it takes a fair bit of work to get the workpiece to run true. But today he chucked an asymmetric workpiece and it dawned on me.

[@gorillaau]

There is a reason behind the madness.

[@ruperthartop7202]

Great work Adam. Bet a lot of people wouldn't touch that job. Thanks for sharing

[@WAVETUBE84]

343k subscribers, wow! I'd like to see the smile on your ma's face, when this job is complete...PRICELESS!

[@justaguy427]

Adam! Good job on that protection equipment while cutting. Guard is aligned right (most of the time), wearing safety glasses, gloves, and a shield with an apron.. Good man!

[@staciedziedzic9150]

Hi it’s stacie! I love Saturday because I get to see you and Steve Summers! I hope that your Thanksgiving was good! Take care!

[@travisd1000]

The inner square piece may be there also to help with the side-loading that the cylinder sees lifting up a motorhome -- it's not like in a machine cylinder where the side-to-side motion is constrained - that thing is subject to the weight being off-balance due to a sloped surface, and unequal loading.

[@badtrip801]

Now we gotta wait ....grrrr like waiting for the next episode of GOT....love the chann from a fellow tinner 😊

[@philipdevonald1273]

Nice to see you wearing the best PPE and guards on the grinder, so many people ignore the safety aspects of the job

[@waynestevenson1055]

I work for a RV dealer/repair shop and this shows why most parts are replaced instead of repaired, a new part is actually cheaper than the repair

[@ibidu1]

We live in a society that has shifted from quality serviceable items, to basically cheap/disposable. If you look at the channel "pakistani truck" it amazes me how resourceful they are at salvaging almost everything. Batteries, brakes, clutches, frames etc they fix it with the most basic parts.

[@doug.ritson]

@Bill Taggart Don't miss the point. The cost of the RV is less because they were able to use an item that was non-repairable. This is only 1 part of many. The total savings from less expensive, but non-repairable parts, brings the cost of the RV down to an amount that more people can then afford the RV. We can lament things aren't easily repairable, but it is as much the consumer as the mfr that drives the 'faster/cheaper' throw away society we have become. How much do you think an RV would cost if NASA designed it?

[@larryschweitzer4904]

@@doug.ritson I used to work @ an RV sales place. Some selling but mostly repair. I could point out to people the differences in manufacturing quality and most would still go for the cheap. Price was also not necessarily an indicator of quality! A lot of cheesy glitz sold units much better than basic quality!

[@xenonram]

It's cheaper to be replaced because they speced a part (the hydraulic cylinder) that is not repairable. Derp.

[@brosselot1]

Yep it's easier to mount a new one then spend the time to fix it. That is the motto for all dealers. Just parts hangers now days, awesome video Adam very professional and informative.

[@JMKady76]

Well in this case with a welded together assembly, it likely is cheaper to replace than pay a machine shop for the kind of time this takes.

[@AWDJRforYouTube]

Great idea to take your grinding outside, I do the same, keeps shop clean, LIKE this post as always Adam.👍👍👍

[@ronstout6013]

Jeez, you are super talented on that lathe. It and your shop clean and organized. Wish our shop looked like that.

[@walthansen6333]

This is why he's a master machinist, no matter what he says.... Adam!!! :-)

[@victoryfirst2878]

Hello Adam, I really like your clean shop. That is just the way I remember my neighbors shop.You are on the right path working with the cylinder. Keep on doing the job the right way too.

[@finnschu]

So satisfying to watch for an engineer that never learned or have the skills to use tools on this level. Love it.

[@unclebob4208]

Good on you, face shield and gloves while grinding.

[@KopoBkuH]

Всегда приятно посмотреть на работу профессионала

[@kejay74]

@KopoBkuH Yes! Professional! Ken (Kин)

[@ilaril]

That old repair looks like it was done by me. And I can't weld, nor do anything else remotely like that. Love your shop and love your attitude. Makes me wish I'd have a friend like you where one could learn things that are interesting.

[@DaleDirt]

Great video , I thought it had to much verbage at first but then as I continued to watch I realize it was very necessary . Thank you for your talent and craftsmanship . Very well done . I look forward to the next part .

[@leebarnhart9725]

I've repaired a few throw away welded cylinders like that. Built like a Bic lighter. Your right, that is an oddball, I was a machinist for a hydraulic shop for 12 years and never seen one quite like that. Obviously some engineers have no oversight or restraints and sometimes no common sense.

[@tristanmackey7261]

I love teardown & repair videos.

[@jameskrivitsky9715]

Thanks for the video Adam. I pulled the cylinder out of my motor home toy hauler lift gate after the seal deteriorated. It had one of those spring wire inserts on the rod end. Watching one of your previous videos put me in the right direction. It took about 3 hours from extraction to reinsertion and test. The seal kit alone was a little over $100. Saved me money by DIY rather than sending it to a shop. J K

[@Abom79]

That’s great! Glad the videos helped you out 👍🏻

[@tonymartin9784]

I have an ozzy clean machine too. Love it. Anyone who doesn't one is truly missing out.

[@zoltannagy1813]

Adam, love your video's. Always interesting and informative. As an apprentice (many years ago) we were told never to attach the magnetic base indicator to the lathe bed. Instead, we mounted the magnetic base onto a length of flat stock (eg. 1/2" thick x 3" wide) long enough to span across the top of the lathe bed. Once you set the indicator to centre height, leave it set on the flat stock. This makes it quicker to move the indicator anywhere you want without having to reset it to centre height each time. Also prevents any unnecessary wear or scratches on your lathe bed.

[@MrJoeakd]

Dang. The minute you pulled the back off and that square rod popped out I was thinking the day was over. And when you said it's getting weird you took the words right out my mouth.

[@ChrisUhlik]

Some of Adam's mean-and-potatoes work. I love learning from your hydraulic cylinder's expertise.

[@coleenlofgren6385]

Good to see the Monarch again !!

[@WoLpH]

I imagine that Adam walks into his shop in the morning thinking... which vise will I use today. Similarly to how I decide which shirt to wear

[@clemensexenberger2455]

Man he is so fast when setting up the 4 jaw. Would take me like half an hour.

[@alialy210]

can't wait for part 2'

[@robbo1967]

Another great job Adam, having some good tools is an enabler but it's your experience with hydraulics that allows you to get this stuff done. Inspiring work :-)

[@PeteHowlett]

I just love your catalogue numbers... a such and such "2 no, 1!". It obviously matters but I still smile when you quote technical. Impressive or what?

[@mikemoore9757]

When you get this one done, I hope the other 3 don't swarm on you. Good job, man!

[@danielh4995]

Thanks for doing these sort of videos. You inspired me to rebuild the cylinders on my tractor loader rather than having them done at a shop. Thankfully they are a screw on gland type

[@gmofftarki]

Great work with that handgrinder... I was skeptical that you'd be able to keep the thing round by hand, and so thought it might have been easier to take off the square tube and push it out of the bracket the other way, dealing with the weld on the lathe from the start, but even by hand the thing was, at least, visually round. I'd never be able to do that.

[@steamfan7147]

Good on you for fixing that cylinder, those things are about $800 a wack.

[@handyhippie6548]

i am working on making a benchtop hydraulic press out of one of these right now. i came in from the garage to warm up, and this vid popped up in my recommended. how did youtube know?!? scary.

[@ryanjones9305]

If this is for an RV, it’s almost certainly a Lippert Components product. They make good stuff, expensive and proprietary. In my experience, looking for aftermarket parts is futile. They make all their own stuff, which is partly why this little cylinder is such a booger. The same thing applies to their electrical parts, like slide out motors and gear reductions. But they have excellent customer service and are happy to take your money directly for replacement parts.

[@ch34pskate16]

Porosity. Caused by contamination in the parent metal or in the weld consumable. Gotta keep it all clean. Great show Mr Booth.

[@BestUserNameUK]

Old school engineering - fantastic👍🏻

[@JRPalak]

Wow! Abom79 is a genius! He can take anything apart, machine weld it back together again and it comes out better than the original assembly. Great Saturday night special.

[@alistairfoster8386]

never come across a ram like that in 40 years as an engineer.

[@kejay74]

@alistair foster Ever hear of 'Bimba Original Line' air cylinders??? Ken

[@mrsethatwood]

"it's a 574 backup, it's got the radius-ed face there" This man has forgotten more about anything, than i have ever known. wow.

[@nemo227]

I've always considered it a miracle that hydraulic pistons work at all considering the pressures involved. But I'm glad they work so well.

[@DanSheldon48]

Adam your videos are great. I just wish KZbin would let me push like more than once. I would have pressed it like 4 or 5 times in this video alone. Thanks ABomb!

[@markmossinghoff8185]

RV repair shop foreman to RV owner..."We have to replace all four of your cylinders sir, I just hope we can save the pump but don't get your hopes up."

[@klschofield71]

Value Engineering = Crap Engineering. You're spot on with your analysis; they want to sell you the whole exorbitantly priced part rather than the $5-10 parts, which are designed with a finite life expectancy, you need to actually repair it. There is a sever lack of ethics within manufacturing and it's probably only going to get worse. Can't wait for part two.

[@Peter-V_00]

Over thousands of parts every step adds a great deal of cost, when parts are sourced the bidding is for X number of parts @ X price per delivered piece, every operation has a cost so to cut pricing steps than can be eliminated are, this is called building to a price not a standard. What's interesting is many of those demanding better designs are those same people that only seem to know what something costs not what it's worth, aka your typical Walmart shopper.

[@klschofield71]

@@douganderson7002 The one he's fixing already failed twice, albeit the second failure was most likely caused when trying to repair the first failure. Some have commented, and I'm prone to agree, that the seals were compromised when repairing the pin holes.

[@TheBrokenLife]

@@douganderson7002 Exactly right. An RV that lives for 10 years is a pretty impressive accomplishment (because they're garbage) and most cylinders will easily go that long.

[@JasonTheMunicipalMechanic]

At the last town I worked for we were calling around to have a hydraulic cylinder resealed and they wanted 1600 to reseal it which was only a few hundred under a new one. There might have been a bigger price difference if we were regular customers for a new one because towns get discounts at most places. I thought that was a high price but I’ve never had anything rebuilt. I moved to a different town before they repaired it, they ultimately changed the whole subframe with a new piston. I enjoy watching your channel thanks for taking the time to post videos.

[@stevecox2530]

Presumably there are 4 of these on the truck, all the same age.... so it won't be long before Fernando turns up with another one.... and another one.... and... you get the picture :-) Great work, Adam. Thanks.

[@Blazer02LS]

Was thinking that as well, but at least Adam knows what's in there now.

[@stevecox2530]

@@Blazer02LS In SNS286 he shows us that he's bought 4 seal kits.... I wonder if it was my comment, or just 'great minds think alike'.

[@billiondollardan]

Boy that whole deal with the dealer not being able to fix a cylinder because it's designed to completely fail when a single SEAL goes bad is such corporate bs. I hate the crap these companies do to us sometimes. Screw them

[@paulcopeland9035]

Unless you are, or have an "Adam", what are you going to do about it? Are you not going to have "things" because you are angry at the manufacturer?

[@robertquast9684]

I would probably look around for a similar sized repairable cylinder from surplus center or the like

[@TrevorDennis100]

Angle grinders are super useful, but dangerous as can be. I NEVER use them without Kevlar reinforced gloves. As well as the advise Adam gave, you need to be careful to avoid kickback by cutting with the top of the wheel so it tries to climb up the job, and in a worse case scenario, straight into your face. I have some scars on my hands, one that happened despite wearing leather work gloves. I've also had sparks eat through leather work gloves after a couple of minutes exposure to the spark stream. In fact you need to think about what way the spark stream will be going, and that is especially the case when other people are working around you.

[@imagineaworld]

Lookin good Adam! We love the cylinder jobs!

[@MisterTee2010]

Great point about taking pictures. I have been doing that for awhile. Much better than writing things down.

[@jeffreysmith8735]

Nice to see you making chips again!!!!

[@clydebalcom8252]

You are a very good son. You are also a gentleman.

[@jimd9511]

Would you consider stamping, or engraving, the seal part numbers on the end cap for future repairs reference? Would also have to put the Abom logo stamp there as well!

[@massiveheadwoundharry6833]

132k views in three days, that's awesome! Congrats Adam!

[@SteveSummers]

Definitely a strange cylinder. Nice job on the repair Adam👍

[@Abom79]

Thanks Steve 👍🏻