Socialism, Black Lives Matter, and Systemic Racism w/ Trent Horn

In this special episode of Pints with Aquinas, I talk with Trent Horn about the issues facing America today. Yep, those issues. The ones you're seeing on TV and all over social media right now.
What is the Catholic response to these issues?
In this episode, you'll learn about:
• Socialism, and why Catholics just can't be Socialist
• Capitalism
• Black Lives Matter
• Types of racism, including systemic racism
So, let's get to it. We have a lot to cover!
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[@PintsWithAquinas]

What is your opinion on the organization, Black Lives Matter?

[@gregoryfierro1876]

Depending on how accurate what I'm hearing on blm's views concerning family, abortion and homosexuality I can't be on the same page with them. I agree that black lives matter but I, as a Catholic believe all lives matter, and with that being said I don't feel that I'm talking away from the idea of blm. We are all made in God's image so all of our lives have worth and are precious.

[@eliotbrubaker6377]

The organization is horribly Marxist and has all sorts of agendas they're pushing independent of race. Black lives matter of course, but the organization is too shady to support formally. I try to be careful to make that distinction when I talk with people.

[@michellepiccolo4564]

The organization itself is problematic for several reasons. I never subscribed to their agenda the minute I went on their site 4 years ago and saw their "beliefs." It's very disturbing, in my opinion, to see that they don't say one word about fatherlessness. So, while they may have some ideas worthy of debate, they don't seem to look at data to support their agenda. This makes them untrustworthy in my eyes. Not only that, we do know George Soros is a funder of them. Lastly, it looks like tens of millions of dollars have been raised by them and the money is going to Biden and other Democratic campaigns. Once this is made public, I would hope people would see through their toxic campaign to divide us. I'm not falling for the bait.

[@nikkivenable3700]

It's a Marxists org, and if you look at their website, it's clear what they are all about. In a recent Rasmussen poll, they are more popular than Trump, Biden, congress, the media, some of these by a quite large margin. If this isn't frightening, then I don't know what is. I think most people are headline readers, are binary thinkers, and don't look beyond, "Oh, I'm for black lives, so yeah BLM is fine." They have a list of things beyond race that they are interested in. How anyone can support them is beyond me.

[@williamswenson3970]

Hi Matt. They were smart to pick that as an organizational name, because if you oppose them, then you are saying that black lives don't matter. Unfortunate. Where I live many people have yard signs that say this, "Science Is Real Black Lives Matter No Human Is illegal Love Is Love Women's Rights Are Human Rights Kindness Is Everything" Which is great!......because faith and reason, racial relations, immigration legislation, LGTBQ morality and legality, abortion and contraception require absolutely no nuance, in depth research or complex analysis and dialogue, they can be boiled down to irrefutable phrases that automatically give you the perceived moral upper hand, especially when punctuated with "kindness" is everything". Love it.

[@ccl754]

Matt, thanks for having Trent Horn on....a great Catholic apologist!

[@presidentoatmeal9748]

You have changed my life Matt Fradd! I wish I could tell you how my super boost of Catholicism came to happen, you would not believe it. Well, you would believe it, but oh man, what a way. Can you believe that a Jehovah Witness actually supercharged my Catholic faith? Everyday at work this JW would preach and read his bible to me. Because of my unfamiliarity with the bible, I was starting to agree with things, that are honestly blasphemous. And I didnt even realize that I was being so torn off the correct path. But the Holy Spirit, the day after I was saying that Jesus was separate from God, showed me the truth. Your videos popped up out of nowhere, arguments against JW's videos popped up, out of nowhere. The first video I watched explained how the JW bible, is not the Christian bible. It showed that the new world translation, the JW bible, is corrupted, and altered to fit there doctrine. I then told myself, I have to get back to the true faith. I read a watched videos on theology, history, faith, and all that led me strait to the Catholic church. And since then I have been every day reading the Catholic bible and non stop watching your and ascensions channels. Matt, you have changed my life, introduced me to philosophy, I'm currently reading your book on Aquinas and also reading the full works of Aquinas. Oh theres so much more I want to tell you. Just Thank you Matt. I am in faith because of the Holy Spirit and because of your channel and interviews which have answered soo much for me. Thank you!

[@delvingeorge2807]

Enjoyed the podcast 😁👍 Prayers 🙏 from India 🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳

[@richard4oyeleke]

I love your camera and background setup. Your mic sound is rich. It attracts me to want to listen to you. Thanks for your great work

[@matthewantero5960]

Matt, your beard looks freakin' cool!

[@writegillian]

I thoroughly enjoyed this! New fan here of Matt and as always, loved hearing Trent's views on these important issues.

[@prairiete]

I'm French, but one of the things I've come to love from the American KZbin is Matt Fradd / Trent Horn hours long conversations. Hoping to learn about BLM. I thought it was only a motto, but it seems to be more than that.

[@Sherlock910]

Yeah, BLM is a lot more than what it appears to be. I honestly don't know what to think of it, anymore. On one level, it looks like they really care about the black community in the United States, and are committed to addressing the issue of police brutality, but on the other side, it appears that they are aligned with other movements that are aimed towards destabilizing and overthrowing the current social order in this country. Some of the rhetoric I've heard from the more radical movements has centered around the notion that all police officers and/or the law enforcement system in this country is pure evil and that in order for the black community to get ahead in life, the police departments must be completely defunded. Now, there's a division of opinion as to what defund the police means for these groups? The more moderate individuals, want different models of policing that focus on community policing, greater relationships with the local residents of the community, etc. They want the funds that were normally allocated for police departments to go towards underfunded schools, communities, and various other charitable causes. I can definitely understand that rationale, though I don't agree with it as a whole. Now, on the other side, there are proponents who appear to just want to get rid of the police and have the citizenry do their own policing. That, I cannot get behind, at all. Our experiment in democracy would never last, if we left the policing to the citizenry.

[@Sherlock910]

As a final thought, we really need to stop hating on each other so viciously. Mr. George Floyd's killer and his accomplices are already in jail and on trial for the crimes they committed. They have received the justice they deserve. And more will be meted out by our good Lord, if they don't repent of their sins, but let's hope that they do. Right now, I'd say it'd more constructive to focus on discussions about the ways in which we can reform, not dismantle, the policing structures so that tragedies like the one that happened to Mr. Floyd don't ever happen again.

[@NightKnight347]

It is in fact far more than a motto. A fundamentally deceitful and calculated movement.

[@reniaesaddler8632]

Prairie Té It’s both. As an organization, it’s ambitious, worldly, man-centered, fallen. In spirit, it’s beautiful, truthful, medicine that our nation desperately needs. Learning to embrace the idea while seeing the material for what it is, and keeping them separate, has a humbling effect. Deep down, we know that BLM represents something true and something false, and there in lies our challenge and our redemption.

[@peli_candude554]

If you haven't seen the videos from Candice Owens (I know she is a Right wing activist but the facts are facts) on BLM then it might help you see the real problems that black lives need help with to correct the situation and align them with the rest of the society they are trying to destroy.

[@JamesWilliams-eu5mn]

Great interview, i enjoyed it alot. Thank you both

[@ryancendejas2512]

Relatively new to the channel, about three months. I love you’re spirituality Matt, and it’s a big inspiration for me as a catholic to see someone with your devotion. But if I’m being honest, I come to this channel as a sort of safe haven from the outside world. To explore the mysteries of the catholic faith. It’s a good and informative conversation here, but I get this 24/7 in political news and media. Easy to dissuade with “just don’t watch the video” I understand this, and I agree to a certain extent. I just felt like I wanted to put it out. Either way, I love the show and I love the beard. God bless.

[@RobertFox-chewbacca]

Matt - you’ve inspired me to grow out my beard! I’m embracing my age partly due to your beard growth. Secondly, it is WONDERFUL to see so many Catholic KZbinrs coming together and speaking with one voice. You, Timothy Gordon, Taylor Marshall and Patrick Coffin. You, together, are such a powerful voice for the good. Keep up the great work! This interview was fantastic! Thank you Trent Horn as well!

[@samhilgartner988]

Great podcast, occasionally can be a bit of an eco chamber. Nuanced discussions, yes, however I’d love to see some guests who are further left from center and demonstrate significant differences of thought with the host rather than subtleties. There exist many left wing Catholics all over Europe, Latin America, and the US, bring em on! Challenge them! See what’s in their hearts and minds, and seek to discover the common ground through a shared religious tradition which transcends our moment of polarization.

[@GratiaPrima_]

I could not for the life of me understand why Trent didn’t bust out laughing in the debate when Sam said China was the least socialist country. Like. Wut.

[@NachoManBoy4]

Great video. Matt- You always seem to bring only the best guests on your show.

[@lizetrocha]

Hey Matt. Love the podcast! Love the beard!

[@FranciscoHernandez-lk2ex]

Speaking as a Hispanic and Catholic, I think its important to talk about the experiences of Black Americans. To me, Racism is a Pro Life issue and prejudice is an educational issue. Like many here have stated, I do believe that if all life has dignity then Black Lives Matter.

[@joserodriguez5211]

Exactly! Well said. Clearly, Matt and Trent (and the commenters in this section) seem to struggle with separating out the statement #BlackLivesMatter from the loosely-knit organization of the same name. If people can’t say “Black lives matter,” then they don’t really believe that all lives matter.

[@writegillian]

I agree with you. I agree that the issue of black lives is a prolife matter. I still don't understand what the big problem is with the organization BLM but if people don't agree with them fine. But I believe Catholics should all be supportive of the safety of black Americans which have had a very different life in this country.

[@ashleighe.4501]

@@joserodriguez5211 THANK YOU! for saying this, I noticed it too..

[@Montfortracing]

@@writegillian a lot of Catholics are hesitant to support the BLM organization, not necessarily the movement. Catholics can also support Catholic organizations and groups who work to end injustices, as an alternative to supporting the BLM organization

[@camovets5719]

@@writegillian nonsense

[@emilyabe8899]

I haven't told you this yet but you have a really nice set up there

[@Lmerosne]

Great job Matt and Trent!

[@fallofmanbrand]

Loved It!

[@Phrigmeat]

Please have this conversation again, but with Gloria Purvis.

[@musiclist4792]

Yes! Or Father Josh Johnson.

[@ericprine8804]

I just wanted to say as someone who leans a little more left than right, I thought Trent gave a great analysis of socislism and BLM and was very gracious. Thank you for doing this topic and having him.

[@shepaluteprez]

Trent, I have a special request for you. You’ve seen a Protestant apologist named Mike Winger. He’s done some pretty good work refuting JW and Mormon doctrines. But he classifies Catholics in that same category as the cult faiths and did a long testimony on Catholicism. It would be amazing if your could invite him to a debate so that he might be less likely to push people away from the Faith. Yes?

[@rosyjose3856]

Matt, didn’t know you could sing! You sing well!

[@williamswenson3970]

Matt, You look great. Distinguished.

[@PintsWithAquinas]

It's the superhero shirt, isn't it. :) Thanks!

[@iliya3110]

It's the beard. Seems like men should be hairy in accordance with how our Lord created us. It's the natural form of a man. Oops...I apologize. My expression of masculinity is so toxic.

[@timebank1949]

@@iliya3110 You sound like muslims that claim that men have to wear beards.... hahahahahahaahahahah EDIT: It is really funny for me to hear such a sentence :-)

[@SamSamSamSameSamSamSam]

One of the more accessible summaries of economics, socialism, free markets, etc. is "Socialism Sucks: Two Economists Drink Their Way Through the Unfree World." One of the last chapters summarizes the authors's interactions with self-proclaimed American socialists.

[@Lay_Theologian]

Hi Matt, as a youth minister, I have found your content very helpful and much needed. However, I must say I was very disappointed by this conversation. Your couching of BLM as a veiled socialist organization does little to address the core problems they are trying to address and I think only works to sow further distrust between individuals with different political persuasions. The core issues BLM and the broader racial justice movement are seeking to address are fundamentally moral issues. Racism is a dark and ugly sin that has stained nearly everything in our fallen world. It is something all Christians must be fighting a spiritual battle against. Christians would be better served focusing on what we must do to heal the perverse sin of racism and prejudice, rather than trying to discredit organizations within the racial justice movement. I encourage you to make a video dedicated to addressing what the Christian response to racism ought to be. I would further encourage you to seek out Catholics of color to offer their perspective on the situation.

[@764Kareltje]

What do you mean with the sin of racism? The sin is called pride as far as I know. Racism is a form of pride. But you cannot deny that many protests are a form of the sin called greed, which is very common among socialists. Both the prideful elite and the greedy poor are under influence of grave sin.

[@joserodriguez5211]

Great comment, Brendan! Perhaps because he comes from Australia and doesn’t grasp the full measure of racism in our history?

[@christinasteiger388]

@@joserodriguez5211 Except Australia has an equally problematic history with their aboriginal population.

[@mattl1508]

This channel is like the Catholic Intellectual Dark Web. So awesome.

[@shepherdessinthefray]

lol yeah

[@MartySarmaidoff]

Is that debate available on youTube. Could we get a link?

[@rickysaxon5551]

Is that the DC Super Powers era line up I see on your t-shirt?

[@PintsWithAquinas]

Yeppers

[@ysunsmoon]

Awesome

[@brendenkoenigsman9858]

I didn't know Miles Teller was so intelligent

[@jakubr4634]

You mention links in the description to the debate and to Trent’s book, but there aren’t any...

[@NicklasNylander87]

The beard is fine as fine can be!

[@belakovacs7013]

I pretty much agree with Trent on the economic analysis but I have one push-back: inheritance over $100 million. Sure, let's suppose that the parents had worked for it, risked their initial capital and had return on their money. But the kids haven't. Would it be immoral to introduce a progressive tax rate on inheritance? (I know that money can be transferred in all sorts of ways, foundations, offshore, etc.)

[@olevam1]

One big concern I had listening to the discussion on "the most socialist country" - we discussed specific countries, Singapore, India - then we jumped to "Sub-Saharan Africa". Is Sub-Saharan Africa all the same throughout? Are all the countries the same? Should we maybe try to speak specifically about countries, even if they are African? --- same idea with speaking about "East Asia". It would be nice if we went specific when speaking about other areas of the world

[@evandelaalquarame4171]

Yeah, we need something much more specific than painting ~46 distinct countries with different cultural backgrounds and histories using the same brush. As it stands, the assertion was quite typical of our American tendency to stereotype Africa while looking down on the continent as a horrible place and so vague it makes me question their ability to say anything substantial about African governments' policies as a whole. Even individual countries in "Sub-Saharan Africa" can group together hundreds of cultures and languages. Nigeria alone has about 500 native languages.

[@theophanial9432]

where is the debate between Trent and Sam? can you post the link?

[@zuzaninha]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/f4DRmJWdm7uchtE

[@theophanial9432]

@@zuzaninha thanks

[@liliarosales1961]

My husband has had run ins with police with and without me. They are totally different experiences. I do not have blonde hair or blue eyes and am significantly darker than Trent.. so I assume darker than his wife. It’s the same for my mom and dad and my sister in law and her husband. My dark brown son with curly hair gets his hair played with by people of all colors. I feel Trent is trying to hard to be a centrist. I know individual acts of racism are real, but the organizations that are leading this movement are actually using classic narcissistic abuse behavior. You tell a narcissist they are destroying the marriage, relationship, workplace and they point to your imperfect past in order to distract from the now.

[@BlueNote74]

You should have had Gloria Purvis on.

[@kathyoleen]

Question, I have a lot of Native Alaskan and American friends. How would national socialism affect them? Would it be bad or good for them?

[@kbeetles]

This was brilliant!- I was born into a socialist nightmare country in Eastern Europe.......

[@AJMacDonaldJr]

Begin @ 16:25 to skip the preliminary banter.

[@jordand5732]

Tom Woods’ book the Church and the Market. Slowly getting through it. Very worthwhile!

[@prolelog]

I’d love to see several videos on the evils and terrors of fascism, white supremacy, and the roll of the far-right, Matt & Trent.

[@michaellawlor5625]

Would you have Sam shamoun on your show matt?

[@davidarcher6970]

I am a patron but don't want to spend the next 30 minutes trying to find the rest of the program on distributism.

[@elizabethr7146]

Ah, yes! Our favorite apologist, Trent “I Have A New Book Coming Out” Horn!

[@Aryanne_v2]

I'm interested in seeing what Trent's view on German style National Socialism is? Because according to his definition I would assume he would just call 1930s Germany capitalist.

[@omarescarcega640]

I love Trent Horn and I love listening to his debates and rebuttal videos. I am no debater but I want to say that I firmly disagree with him regarding socialism equating to bad catholicism. 1. Picture a catholic born in "true socialist" society who goes to church everyday and fulfills God's will to their best ability. Is that person automatically disqualified from being considered a "good catholic?" 2. I would assume nobody thinks that. So, a "true socialist" is not someone born in a socialist society, but someone who agrees wholeheartedly with the theory of socialism. 3. Picture a person born in modern USA. The billionaires get half a trillion dollars richer in 2020 while millions and millions file for bankruptcy and unemployment. Would this person be considered a marginally worse catholic for wanting more socialistic policies implemented in their country? Is it logical to assume that the more "true socialism" a person wants, the worse a catholic he becomes? At what point does your good catholicism fail to redeem your preference for true socialism? I think there is not as strong of a connection between economic preferences and how good of a catholic you are. I am very fallible in my opinion, but I would never try and disqualify how good of a catholic someone is based on something extrinsic to their faith. I am no one to make that judgment

[@EuropeanQoheleth]

Amen Omar. Much as I hate capitalism and communism even good people can have bad beliefs.

[@renjithjoseph7135]

1. No. 2. Yes. 3. No, his idea is that you can't be a good Catholic that supports taking away of people's rights. But you can support good policies.

[@renjithjoseph7135]

@Ed they weren't good Catholics if they supported taking peoples' private property away from them. They weren't true socialists if they didn't support this. I think that's what he was saying

[@omarescarcega640]

@@renjithjoseph7135 ok so lets go to 3. So if the average American Joe in 2020 supports a policy that takes away the rich elite's apparent right to extract wealth from the masses, he is not being a good Catholic? I think its important to speak in terms of practicality and reality, rather than in abstract theories when we discuss something like this. Taking away the billionaires' rights to absorb all the wealth doesn't seem unethical, immoral, or anti Catholic to me

[@Jess_ica2927]

@@omarescarcega640 correct, but supporting left-leaning social policies doesn't make one a 'true socialist'. (Spoken as a European, so what Americans consider socialist policies just seem like normal common sense to me 😂)

[@johnkronz7562]

How does capitalism just come down to private ownership, when most of the ownership in modern capitalism comes down of corporate ownership?

[@reegonfall8866]

👍

[@ironymatt]

Really odd to hear that there's a summary of the Green New Deal, considering that the entirety of the document - from what I understand it's only five pages - is not much more than an almost comically sparse outline of the democrat wish list anyway.

[@alpha4IV]

This vid is much better than the actual debate; but it shows Trent's lack of knowledge on Socialism & Marxism. He seems to only have an academic or theoretical understanding of the topic. It reminds of how embarrassing it was when JBP went up against Zizek & had no idea of the practical adjustments & intellectual developments societies who are socialists have made in the last 15 years. My wife is Chinese & we have an apartment in Main Land China, our neighbors all drive porsches & go to private schools. The economic schools there have statues of Marx & many of the people are devout socialists & very strong atheists. Yet their social norms mirror conservative Christiananity & the struggling Church there is segmented from an underground Catholicism & a public government approved "Christaity" that is not allowed to be critical of the government & is limited to speaking on personal morals. I've been there, I've seen it, I've even participated in an underground mass with the Bishop there. Many of the Catholics in China, if pressed, would claim that they could be both fully Catholic & a good Chinese Socialists. Trents position seems counterproductive to the greater fight Christans in non-democratic nations are facing, when they are looking for acceptance there but their Leaders can look to what we are saying here & say see even their most outspoken champions say we are incompatible.

[@bluestripsnow5974]

Great point. What good can come from these types of arguments? If I didn’t have a mind of my own, I might say “hey that means I better not like socialist ideas” when in fact I’m not convinced there is any harm being done to my soul when I think that we should distribute wealth in a less lopsided way

[@g.weg.3723]

Matt, your beard is getting bigger by inches like every other day! What is your secret? ’m like 7 months into mine and it’s hardly as impressive!

[@timothyfreeman97]

He attends an Eastern Rite Liturgy. He becomes *ONE* with the Byzantines 🧔🏼🎅🏼

[@g.weg.3723]

Timothy Freeman he’s morphing lol

[@reniaesaddler8632]

I’d like to see a fair explanation of a document which brings together several former papal documents, in regards to the evolution of capitalism, which I support, and the specific ills which it opens the door to, and the right way to approach them. That document is Mater et Magistra (May 15, 1961) | John XXIII. So far all I’m hearing is a semi-acknowledgement of capitalism alone being imperfect coupled with extensive criticism of Socialism in response but almost zero attention paid to the social economic teaching. I call this a kind of willful ignorance, intellectual dishonesty. The only parts of these papal documents that are mentioned are those which oppose socialism and support private property and industry. But there are many parts that also recommend government intervention as a means of balancing the profits both supply and labor side equally contribute to. Why this ignoring of the rights of labor and the call that they are fairly represented in the business and economy as a whole? There are also many areas that call attention to the need to distinguish which industries it would be an ill to society to be owned by private industry and that might be better owned and regulated by government. I also see this argument that we must try to control the personal decisions of others at the state level and how unjust wages are justified under the assumption that people aren’t going to spend a fair wage on what we think they should. It’s a grave injustice to disregard altogether the workers contribution to economic growth of an entire society and individual institution, and that wages be so low that the family and individual are forced to have their needs met by social welfare programs. There is also mentioned the need for governments to make sure effort is being made to better serve the underserved areas in the community so that equality of opportunity becomes more available. And lastly, why is no one criticizing the serious environmental degradation that can be attributed to today’s neoliberal capitalist model, the errors of production for the sake of production, the idol wealthy as a lifestyle condemned by Jesus himself, the productions of useless goods and cheap goods that fall apart at the expense of useful and well made goods, the disparity between northern production and living that directly harms nations below the equator, etc. The focus is always ONLY on the evils of socialism. It’s really inexcusable, especially for a Catholic whose title means “universal” and implies a mindset and view that takes ALL things into consideration equally.

[@BlueNote74]

Why were there no black people invited into the discussion regarding systemic racism and BLM? Nothing worse than an all white panel discussing these things.

[@bobaphat3676]

Do people of colour have a monopoly on the racism discourse ? Your assertion that people who aren't black can't talk about racism is incorrect. Because racism can and does affect everyone. Secondly, people's experience of racism is important BUT you can't extrapolate that to explain away issues that have OTHER factors as well, such as socio-economic and political factors.

[@BlueNote74]

@@bobaphat3676 is Matt Fraad, a white Australian, being systematically discriminated against here in America? No?, Then perhaps invite people who are into the discussion.

[@bobaphat3676]

@@BlueNote74 No he's not. But I'm curious about systemic racism, there is individual racism, maybe even generational racism. But I doubt there is systemic racism such as the likes of apartheid in South Africa years ago. Now there are fragments of racism in your society, but I doubt it is to the extent perpetuated by BLM and other groups. Racism is a factor in a multi-variate problem. You can't pin it all down to racism. Furthermore, I don't understand this point about "Let's bring in a person of colour otherwise our discussion is useless" -- A person of colour can only attest to their experiences, it it unwise to ask a person of colour to attest to systemic racism because it is more subtle and needs to be studied in the literature.

[@KristinaDMoore]

@BlueNote74 The fact the the commenters don't understand your point is part of the issue and probably why the systemic part (not all) of racism will never be eradicated to a great extent. Black people have our work to do but the way racism is now being questioned when Black people can tell you all kinds of incidents that have a racial element is sad. Even in Matt's home country there was decimation of Aboriginal people. So tired of it.

[@TonyKeeh]

Am I right in thinking that a capitalist society allows for socialism? In our current capitalist society - can't a group of socialists get together with all their property and resources and then distribute and live as they please?

[@f0292]

yes, Trent did mention that if you want to make a co-op owned company within capitalist country, you can.

[@timrichardson4018]

A lot of the principles of socialism/communism are present in Jesus' teachings and the way of life of the Church in the Book of Acts. But I argue there is a key difference. In the Church, that way of life was entered into voluntarily by all involved. It grew organically from the bottom up. Applying those principles as a governmental policy is to impose them on people from the top down. What's more, a faith community choosing to share all things in common presupposes the existence of an economy outside of the community. Many monasteries work by making things to sell. Some, I suppose, rely on financial support directly from the Church. In both cases, the monastery is reliant upon people from the outside who have other economic means. If such a system were universalized, then the means of support would dry up.

[@david2theKay]

Trent Horn has layers like an onion? 😊

[@mashah1085]

It's funny how the stuff that Jesus (supposedly) said that sounds like socialism was just "hyperbole"...but we're supposed to take other stuff he said as "literal". Just depending on your opinion, or if you're a pro-capitalism conservative or not.

[@tflics]

Great show!! Regarding the so-called "micro-aggression" racism, I agree that we should treat all people as sons and daughters of God, but I would point out this doesn't mean treating them like kindergartners. I mean, we live in a society that takes great pride in its ability to be offended by the most innocuous and inoffensive things, and I don't think it is worthy of our dignity to play into this absurdity.

[@sierram376]

Well I was in communist Vietnam a year ago, in Hanoi, Priests were allowed to walk in public, there are so many Catholics there, somany catholic people getting married and having families!!!! and there's SO MANY CHILDREN! Like in one household there were 5 kids! They donot have a one child policy!!! Also, on every house they have a business or a store. There are more family businesses in Vietnam than corporations, there's no Mcdonalds or KFC....But there are so many hawker street restaurants! When I was there I said 'They are communist in name but they act like distributist!" We were free to roam around too. Mind you, I also visited other communist countries like China and North Korea. In China people ARE NOT FRIENDLY and there only a few people walking around, they dont know English and they are kind of rude and gross....in North Korea,it's VERY STRICT, you always need to be accompanied,you are not free to roam around. BOTH in China and N.Korea, I can feel that people are not happy...BUT in Vietnam, I sense that people are very happy there!!!!! Have you been to Vietnam? Maybe you should go there first before judging!!!!!!!

[@musiclist4792]

Fun fact: the USCCB acknowledges that systemic racism exists. Read the apostolic exhortation Open Wide Our Hearts.

[@CC-zc6cv]

Why nobody discuss racism And multiculturalism

[@sierram376]

On Vietnam: After 20 years of implementing the Platform of National Construction During the Transition to Socialism in 1991, Vietnam has been out of underdevelopment, becoming a middle-income developing country. The six characteristics of the socialist society depicted in the 1991 Platform have been supplemented and developed by the 2011 Platform into eight basic characteristics of the socialist social model that the Vietnamese people continue to build in the 21st century. Those eight characteristics are: (i) Rich people, strong country, fair, democratic and civilized society; (ii) Owned by the people; (iii) There is a high level of economic development, based on modern production forces and production relations in line with the development level of production forces; (iv) There is an advanced culture and strong national identity; (v) People are liberated from oppression, injustice, have a wealthy life, freedom, happiness, comprehensive development; (vi) Ethnic groups in the Vietnamese community are equal, united, and support each other to progress; (vii) There is socialism state of legitimate which belong to the people, created by the people, for the people under the leadership of the Communist Party; (viii) Having friendly and cooperative relations with people of all countries in the world.[26]

[@jordanmielbrecht3360]

I am troubled by the lumping together of these three topics. Lumping BLM in with socialism is just another symptom of our polarized society's inability to critically analyze the best points raised by certain people separate from other suspected commitments. BLM is too often considered a gateway drug to Marxism, and that is just absurd.

[@shayneswenson]

LOL! What? You’ve obviously not read/understood their mission statement? I get that you want to be a do-gooder and go along with whatever mainstream moralizing is lording over you, but your comment here is the height of incoherence. Their whole oppression narrative is abject bullshit and it’s roots are deeply entrenched in critical race theory, which is in fact borne of sociologically applied Marxism. This isn’t even debatable at this point as the founders themselves are on record(look it up)touting Marxism and openly affiliating under that banner. What’s actually an absurdity is that white men are so scared of being called a word(ironically made up my a Marxist), that they will be subjugated by people who want them dead/diminished and their culture destroyed. Believe whatever you want or whatever releases the most dopamine.👍🏻

[@shepherdessinthefray]

Any time I hear the words "good christian" or "good catholic" .... it immediately raises to heart a feeling of division, not love, or understanding. (around the 8 minute mark; Horn's affirmative stance using the words 'good catholic'.)

[@shepherdessinthefray]

In fact, a "debate" setting itself is rarely fruitful. The word itself makes me exhausted.

[@Jess_ica2927]

We do need to call out heresy where we see it, but I agree that I don't really like the term. (Also, there's surely no such thing as a 'good Catholic'. We're all sinners.)

[@ddksa24]

I get his criticisms of socialism, but he seems to be an apolegist for capitalism. Capitalism has plenty of problems as well. Are you opposed to corporate socialism? The best economic systems are mixed economies.

[@gnessink]

Trent seems biased in his discussion regarding Capitalism and socialism. But Acts 4:32-37 set up a more community/ socialist structure in the early church. Even today the Church which is the community of believers own building, and property not individual priest. When the Pope appears to wealthy he is criticized. So it’s the Church that owns not the individual. We give to the Church to feed the poor, care for the sick, clothed the naked and feed the hungry. The Church is the Kingdom of God on Earth and all nations should be ruled under the same structure

[@leandrarichards8774]

This video claims to discuss Socialism... but actually begins with a discussion of Communism... two very different economic systems that are not interchangeable as far as I know...

[@jamesstewart6079]

If you hate socialism then you should be for reparations for black people. If you think police should not have power over your life, then you should be for BLM.

[@ghostl1124]

Well, over an hour long discussion, and you guys didn't mention any scripture. So what makes you any different from Fox , CNN, BBC, ABC news ? You just discussed isms, worldly viewpoints, and current events. I think you speak well, and carry on a conversation, but what about the teachings of Jesus? This episode had little to nothing of God's wisdom.

[@pajamaninja2157]

trying to stay away from controversy i see.

[@Johannes3006]

Socialism apologists on Catholic Herald?

[@stephg3547]

This interview has good content but it is highly problematic. It is great that capitalism was defined and it would be great when there is NOT systemic racism (which was denied in this video but neither of you are part of the group being oppressed) Areas with a high concentration of black people (redlined areas) are less likely to get funding (critical for good schools) black people are less likely to get approved for loans and the criminal justice is against us. How are black people supposed thrive in capitalism when our legs are arms tied up for the race and white people have heavy backpack? Again, stating white people do struggle too but a poor white person is more likely to get a loan than I am (and I’m college educated, have a job and I live comfortably enough to be a patron of Matt Fradd.) I am a Catholic first and I do not agree with the mission of black lives matter aside from making it punishable to lynch my people. I do not believe all white people are racist and this is not negating that white people have their own struggles but right now we need to have black people not be knelt on or shot to death. Abortion is wholly awful and evil but right now it’s being used to put down black people - like its an excuse to murder us. Yes all lives matter but stay focused right now Breonna Taylor’s killers would have gotten away with MURDER if not for this movement and this would be swept under the rug. Why do we wait months to hear about these things? Because of SYSTEMIC RACISM that protects these officers and says a black life isn’t worth much to this world unless a mother wants an abortion. Also, YES!!!! PLEASE DONT PET MY HAIR. I can’t believe we have to say this! I wear cornrows - people say I look ghetto, white girls wear cornrows and suddenly it’s so beautiful. I have to straighten my curly hair (damaging my curls) for go on interviews because it looks “unkempt” When the odds are stacked against me and people who look like me for jobs, loans, and justice yes, there definitely is systemic racism and I wish more of my white Catholic brothers and sisters could see that.

[@reniaesaddler8632]

Steph G Id you haven’t read Pope Francos’ Laudato Si, I highly recommend it. The Church is divided, but our popes have never wavered on social and economic injustice. It’s just that some teachers only present the parts of certain documents that favor their position. It’s unfortunate, but we have to pray for them and take up reviewing these encyclicals and other documents on our own if we want the full teaching. One tragedy Im seeing very clearly is that financial hardship drives women to abortion clinics. There is a eugenics that seeks to keep certain communities impoverished to reduce their numbers. Instead of condemning the poor woman, we need to be promoting the finial stability of individuals and families. We need to focus on building up underserved communities.

[@euphratesjehan]

I agree 💯 percent with you. www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/24/magazine/reparations-slavery.html

[@bobaphat3676]

You've made a few points above, but I think that you're a making giant leap to say it all comes down to the pigmentation of your skin. I'm not in any way downplaying the racism that you or any other person, regardless of colour, has experienced. But the issue you describe are more nuanced than just skin colour, it is a complex multi-variate problem and pinning it all down to skin colour is not correct. Now, is there systemic racism ?YES, but to what degree ? AND how do we address it ? My point is there is racism, but what you've described involves a lot more than just racism. You can't point everything to racism.

[@KristinaDMoore]

You are 100% right Steph G. To me they are just ignoring the brutal slavery in this country and subsequent systemic racial issues that continue to play a negative role in the lives of African American people.

[@eugengolubic2186]

Matt Fradd: "I'm not racist!" CNN: "This proves you are."

[@samuelbcn]

Not all of us live in America. Please stop using US acronyms and references that we can't understand.

[@reegonfall8866]

USSR

[@6williamson]

Two white guys talking about racism? I think one Priest's advice is pertinent: this is a time to fast from speaking and listen.

[@Grace-un3xq]

Can white people not talk about racism? Racism can can be targeted at any race; that’s just how that works. Telling white people that they can’t talk about racism because they’re white, is racist. Surprise.

[@GrassyHillProduction]

Gracie nah bro bc you cant be racist to white people. so if that’s what ur building ur argument on try again xoxo

[@bobaphat3676]

Try harder troll.

[@Ericviking2019]

I hope Trent is not going to deny racism

[@PintsWithAquinas]

Me too!

[@Seethi_C]

He definitely doesn’t, but “systemic racism” has just critiques, and the idea that unarmed black men are in danger of being killed by police is overblown.

[@nikkivenable3700]

@@Seethi_C This comment is common sense. It's hard to find these days.

[@stephenjohnson9632]

Seethi C Blacks being killed by police is only a part of the problem.

[@sophiagomez5619]

Who knows :0