Sol-Ark Hijacks a Generac

Using the Sol-Ark as an ATS for the Generac in this customer's system!
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[@smileyionut4604]

We have used the kzbin.infoUgkxOTeIs0vv4_9B5hsmnLsk9r930uDQLu_Y for probably 30 hours with our camper and it’s been great! The noise level is really only noticeable when running the AC and other appliances like the microwave, hair dryer, or coffee pot. It’s not huge like other ones and it has wheels so even at 90lbs, I can move it!

[@VideoconferencingUSA]

It is nice to see the work of a professional. Great job.

[@jmoyer88]

great work Scott! Its nice to see similar setups!

[@jordanpease2853]

Wow- amazing technology- nice job with the installation- thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge, Scott!

[@johnmiggins9431]

you are continually setting the bar high, good work

[@GreenTechFusionRenewableEnergy]

Awesome setup you all!

[@nowweride3094]

Holy Smokes! You guys always give me more things to think about! Between your excellent solar ideas and some ideas for geothermal heating and ac, now a generator for a back up to a back up! Who needs the grid anymore? Oh! Where in SC can I build a celler? No where in Myrtle Beach thats for sure! 🇺🇸👍

[@michaelmiller5597]

Thanks for the generac video. We have a lot of customers in this situation.

[@practicalpreppers7798]

You are welcome! We will continue to find a lot of generac generators out there!

[@sharperminds4315]

Thanks for your video. I just had a Sol-Ark 15k EMP Hardened unit installed. Producing between 101 and 105 kWh per day, which is just a bit more than our 24-hour usage, so for now, our net metering is positive on our behalf. Fortunately, we have an electrical cooperative which is not-profit oriented and has a great buy back agreement. For now, our system is just grid-tied (no batteries), but in the not too distant future, I hope to put in around 38 kWh of storage. Since the current install lacks some of the isolation features of yours, I'm trying to learn what it takes to do a hybrid on/off grid setup. It was nice to see some of the equipment that I'm considering utilizing such as the manual transfer switch, the Photovoltaic System Disconnect, etc., and not needing the Generac ATS. Helps with my overall perspective. We have a 100A disconnect, no manual transfer switch and the Sol-Ark connection is to the wires prior to the main panel breakers (not isolated from the grid). The Sol-Arks are kind of new to my installer and we're his third install. So their team is still learning. Part of the issue lies with ILLUMINEI, the solar design/engineering company, since the installer was pretty much limited to following their design. Doesn't seem like they took into consideration the likelihood of batteries being added and designed a strictly grid-tied system.

[@Boogle912]

You talked about how amazing it is that inspectors have so much leverage over your life. I completely relate to this and I don’t run a business. I have a new residential build coming up, grid-tie. And I’m tempted to do Solar hookup after the grid and outlets and receptacles pass inspection.

[@patrickcook1423]

Thats what I'm doing. Its 15k for equipment. 35k installation for an electrician. Nope, thanks for your time, not paying you 17.5 k per day. Well, he did not say that. but I can look up equipment costs. Its insane what they get away with charging. And the permit/inspection process creates this insanity. In NM you cant even draw a permit if your not an electrician. BS says I.

[@MrSchnickel]

i am very impressed of ur work and the knowledge u have about the system. a job so well done. no bull.. just clean and professional work. many compliments

[@Zorlig]

Really nice install! I bet the greater efficiency of these units helps keep them quiet

[@jappropriatetechno-logic1504]

its like haveing vaccum cleaners wall moun5ed at times.....

[@skoto.power.systems]

A great job is done, keep it up

[@r.lindoncoutts1897]

That must be the cleanest control room you've ever done, and the way they should all be set up ... sure would have been nice to have had at least one shot showing it all at a time.

[@royamberg9177]

Nice neat and orderly. Project well done

[@tungstenholdings8973]

Great video. About ready to do similar install with two Sol-Ark 12ks. Total off grid with Diesel Generator and some solar. Thanks

[@johnwilbanks2513]

Love seeing your work. The battery charger in the Generac generator is fed off T1 in the transfer switch. It is only 120VAC.

[@jimgoff2493]

I install these setups in Upstate New York, we use the 3 cold-start kits (small heaters on the oil filter, battery, and intake) so in addition to the T1 at 120V for the battery charger, we connect L1 and L2 from the LOAD output of the Sol-Ark to N1 and N2 via inline fuses so the 3 heaters will work.

[@greenftechn]

Great demo! I would have liked to have seen the video concentrate more on the precise steps, connections and everything, to supplant the ATS.

[@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity]

You can get the two Molex Mini-Fit Female Socket# WM3279CT-ND or two Pre-Crimped Lead, Mini-Fit Female# WM12450-ND from Digi-Key. The Generac charger is powered by 120VAC/3.0A into T1. I ran from the "always hot" L1 that goes to house using a 6A fuse, so that if I'm running on grid, gen or solar, the charger will be powered. FYI: The Generac controller consumes 1.6A running, 250mA Standby. If charger dies, the little battery won't last long. I installed a 120V power switch with pilot light on T1 circuit, then a battery volt meter to monitor in my power shed. Keep up the good work. Oh, my two 12K's shut down trying to start my Dewalt 7.5" circular saw!! 🤣😂. The $1200 EG4 6500ex and a $350 Amazon 12V 2500W hf ran it though. Go figure. The 12K's have ran everything else in my house that I needed to be on at the same time, at 17,000W load. 6.25Ton of hp's, all electric heaters disabled with a switch on 24V (W) circuit, standard 80 gal elec wh, elec range, std dryer/washer.

[@rupe53]

battery charging is just one of the functions in that gen controller. The controller also handles weekly exercise, the gas solenoid, and AC voltage regulation, which is all from 12 volts... and supplied from that single fuse. Without that fuse (and the internal 12 volts) the whole gen set will quit in a matter of hours. (ask me how I know)

[@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity]

@@rupe53 We aren't talking about the 7.5A ATO fuse on top side of controller. The 6A I installed is on the 120V line feeding the T1 terminal which powers the charger. It's Neutral comes from the 6 ga N to the gen. 775 was wiring it to 240VAC. I'd like to know how that worked out.

[@rupe53]

@@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity ... I know... been installing Generac for near 25 years and recently retired. The older sets used 240 volts both to monitor the line and do the other deeds. (4 fuse transfer switches) When they went to the 3 fuse units, the T1 became battery charging and those other functions. The 7.5 amp is only for the control board itself. BTW, ran into a bogus wiring job one day where the neutral wire was tied to the neutral bar via a bug-lug but it wasn't sitting square when tightened. (although seemed tight because it didn't wiggle) The entire chassis was live and I was trying to sort out the issue in the rain with no access to the TS in the basement. (nobody home) Oh, the stories I could tell!

[@robsdeviceunknown]

Do you still do consultations? Willing to travel to Southern GA? We're fixing to buy a new place and want to install Solar with Grid backup (and to run shop). Small system actually as it's only a 2K sq foot with 2 adults. I am too paranoid to hire local as they would be privvy to my location, supplies etc. I doubt they would adhere to a NDA.

[@MrEliwankenobi]

How did you get the load shedding SMMs to work with the SolArk inverters?

[@johnhulsey904]

Love your videos. Hope to be able to afford you one day to update what I have. But more important question first, in your intro your riding a motorcycle up a mountain road. Is that 276 near Caesars head? I ride it often but there are so many beautiful rides in the Carolinas if that's it?

[@craigmitchell5628]

How much for the used Generac transfer? A line diagram of how you wired these manual transfers would be helpful.

[@jimgoff2493]

Where did you find the PDB’s that were bolted onto the back of the trough? Do they make a 3-port version?

[@kevinshaw8539]

Once you connect to the J 18 and J 10 with the female starter kit wires those tie back to the 240 breaker? with a fuse?

[@ramonmacias9013]

I am off grid running 2 sol ark 12s with 40 kwhs of lead acid batterys and 10kw of solar panels. My current back up is a generac 8000 watt portable gasoline generator supplying 240 at 30 amp. This is a temporary set up until i can afford to get a 50 amp generator that can be wired in to auto start. After one of the last firmware updates the display changed on my sol arks and now i cant get the generator to charge the system. Is there something i can do to get it to work again?

[@PeachstoneCorp]

I did that with my 20 kw briggs and stratton generator with a transfer switch...works great

[@TheWayWeSawIt]

Thank you for this video, well done, we are facing the same kind of installation soon. The smart management moduls (SSM) from Generac (load control, the two boxes) normally activate when the generator kicks in, because the generator gives a different HZ frequency to the grid. When the generator is connected to the Sol-Ark inverter the Herz will not change anymore (that’s what they told us). So how can we handle the loads? Or can you confirm that they do work? Thank you very much for your help, much appreciated.

[@jeffhutton8435]

Hello, Have you had any issues with running your battery cables through separate ferrous metal conduits? Heating of the cables and or conduit? I know it's against code, however I believe the expanding and collapsing field of AC current is the main contributor to inductive heating. These DC cables with the toroids installed shouldn't have much ripple. Thanks, Jeff

[@clintandtracyevans9538]

My Solark was updated on Thursday and now it doesn’t recognize when my generator is on so I can only charge with solar. Any ideas on what changed and how to fix it?

[@MrThat0nekid]

It was a bummer this week, one of our AHJ’s (Oklahoma City) started failing us for utilizing the two knockouts for the battery conductors on the sol-arks. Since they’re technically in the same circuit they’re supposed to be ran in the same raceway.

[@ZackFletcher1]

Use PVC instead of emt, the inspector is correct.

[@willistisdale4293]

I’m curious which code article the AJJ is citing. I believe there is an exception to counter this and I’m digging for it. edit: grammar and content

[@MrThat0nekid]

@@willistisdale4293 300.3(b)

[@MrEgigas]

Any chance we could see the CAD for a setup like that? It has to be mind blowingly complex!

[@willistisdale4293]

It was a doozy of a puzzle. Edit: it works great so worth it.

[@nicholasspeir875]

The basic diagram is in the install manual. I don’t recommend using the gen lugs. I suggest running the utility feeders to the ATS and then hitting your main panel. Interconnect the solark into the main panel, and then select “gen on grid input.” You will have to program your generator to fire up from 2 wire start from the solark. I say this for 2 reasons. I have seen the gen lugs backfeed a generator and ruin a $27k generator. Because the gen lugs double as a smart load output, backfeeding is possible. 2) the gen lugs will not pass through to the loads, they will only charge the battery. So your generator has to be throttled to the max current allowed to charge your battery bank. Also if your battery bank is shot, you lose your genny as well. I suggest only using gen lugs to attach an AC coupled system or to use as a smart load for this reason. Note: for off grid, you won’t need an ATS.

[@craigmitchell5628]

That's a beautiful house from the outside.

[@solarhomesteadinstalls]

Time stamped. 13:06 . You have the generator bonded and grounded through the transfer switch. Shouldn't you have that separate or did you unbound the main panel? Since it would act as fault loop?

[@franklinfoy6489]

Just saw your video and I like the idea of that approach. I ordered a Champion 8.5 home standby generator to charge my batteries and have my inverter control the generator. I have a Midnite Solar Rosie 7KW inverter. The idea of having the manual transfer switch to switch between the grid, gen and inverter. I will have to call to see if I can do that with my system.

[@baileysmith4800]

Very exciting project, thanks for showing us the ins and outs of the generator/battery inverter integration Is there any tricks to supply 240, or is it 120 to the generator for charging the battery?

[@greenftechn]

It's 240, at verrrry low amps, as shown in the video. I would have liked to have seen the video concentrate more on the precise steps, connections and everything, to supplant the ATS.

[@freznelite]

Is the standby power of the Generac really 0.5A at 240VAC while not running? What is the total kWh consumed by the generator each day?

[@halldon1]

You say you can use “any” generator. Last I had read in the Sol-Ark manual they only accepted 240v inputs. Is that still the case?

[@willistisdale4293]

You are correct that is the case. These are 240v inverters therefore they need a split phase 240v input.

[@halldon1]

@@willistisdale4293 It would be cool if they could incorporate one of the small 120v inverter generators, but that’s understandable.

[@dannydaher1366]

Trying to do the same with an off grid system. Basically removing the ATS and use Solark as transfer switch. No generator only Solark as the main source and utility as backup power.

[@dannyhowell3171]

Thanks for the information was very t

[@darceydockstader6619]

Where do you get your double throw safety switches?

[@engineer775]

Home Depot

[@Adirondacks4me]

Is there a setting to use only solar to charge the batteries and run the house when the sun is strong and automatically cut off the grid or at least curtail it in order not to pay them and have the grid gradually engage when needed for higher loads?

[@halldon1]

In some of his past videos he has shown how to install Current Transformers on the grid input to the house to “zero the meter”.

[@jimgoff2493]

Yes. There are all kinds of settings to prioritize the charging and energy flow. We install in the Adirondacks btw. we’re a Gold installer for Sol-Ark.

[@kennyecheverry5684]

limited to home with CT's

[@Meglenger]

I would ask what this cost but I don't want to know. Very nice job tho! I just started my solar and wind adventure LONG ways away from this setup lol.

[@TheBurnsStuff]

Do Solarks require internet or "phone home" to function? If they have no connection, do they have limited controls?

[@jimgoff2493]

NOPE. absolutely no connection is needed. software updates if needed can be done with a special dongle that Sol-Ark provides.

[@bkspotify4337]

@@jimgoff2493 I saw a WIFI on them. I plan on having internet, behind a nice firewall of course. Any reason anyone thinks I shouldn't? I could do all sorts of fancy networking to keep it VERY safe from attack. I'm not sure how much I'd access it remote. Maybe just plug it in once every few months for manual upgrade of software if available.

[@kennyecheverry5684]

They are doing a big change to the web application soon with much better security

[@Boogle912]

You said two 12k in parallel is the way to go. Now that the 15k is out, would you say the 15K is the way to go now today?

[@RJSOBO88]

The conductor stresses on the neutral insulated splice block in the MTS is a no bueno. Get some split phase load imbalance, if the sol ark inverters don't trip because of it, those lugs will need to be retorqued.

[@lennieadi]

Great install looks complicated. What would that entire system cost. Would you consult via video call to caribbean?

[@cravey44]

everything is more expensive on an island. coastal 48 id imagine the generator /install of 22kw to cost about 15-17 k. the solark inverters are roughly 7k per. the fortress battery banks im not familiar with ( say 20k). Then it all has to be wired in correctly. id expect the base components to cost 50k and id expect an experienced electrician to ask for 20k for his expertise. electrical materials capable of handling the amperages 10k. my guess is 100k mainland .... your guess on an island.

[@NoTreadingOnMe]

Which manual transfer switches do you use?

[@willistisdale4293]

Ge 200 Amp Manual Emergency Power Transfer Switch 240V Double Throw Model# TC10324R

[@JohnSmith-sf8gj]

What keeps the grid from being energized during a power outage?

[@cravey44]

the generator ATS will automatically throw the switch when 240 is lost from the grid. (in an generator only scenario) the anti islanding abilities of inverters disconnect from the grid and do not put any power back on the grid when grid voltage is not at acceptable voltage. with the sol ark master in charge. and your power is out.... the sol ark takes the place of the grid (as far as the generator brain is aware). when the solark senses the parameter need to recharge the batteries during a grid down scenario. solark sends the signal to generator to fire up and recharge batteries....id like to think of it like a prius.

[@azpcox]

With two transfer switches and fuse disconnects, where is the neutral ground bond? Still in the main power panel?

[@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity]

It is on mine. I have three power sources just like he does…Generator solar or grid. Maybe 775 can explain to us how he recommends moving that bonding jumper around to three different power sources. Mine works fine like it is and I'm not messing with it.

[@rupe53]

@@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity .... it would make sense to keep the bond only in the main house panel because it all goes there anyway. OTOH, with several disconnects the main panel is no longer the "first point of disconnect" as per NEC. This makes me wonder if there's an exception with solar.

[@swaterman08]

would be cool to use multiple ATS' and then have a custom control panel on the wall and have big buttons and have one button for Normal one for Grid and one for Generator. then you could even use smart relays and have a Raspberry Pi create a mobile app or local website to switch modes or add automation. if Solarks are down the ATS will switch to Grid/Geneator and if grid is also down it will switch to Generator until either solarks or grid come back.

[@MrThat0nekid]

I’ve been using relays to control my ATSs when installing sol-arks for a while now. I wish there was a solid “smart” ats made for solar/ess that didn’t cost $3000 like an asco.

[@craigmitchell5628]

@@MrThat0nekid got any line diagrams?

[@offgridwanabe]

Complicated is your business but you have it figured.

[@jackr9804]

What is your opinion of Cummings vs generac?

[@willistisdale4293]

Not an official opinion here: Both are good generators. Cummins generators just have that “something” that makes them a top choice for places like hospitals. Generac is also good.

[@hoocli]

I'm jealous we can no longer install lithium batteries inside a home in Canada, code changed a few months ago. Garage is the only option. Now have to heat the garage to keep the batteries warm and requires a lot of expensive copper for the battery runs. Have the 15k with 200 Amp pass through.

[@niktak1114]

They should really exclude LiFePO4 from that

[@TheFatman819]

They were right to exclude Lithium, they are dangerous and fires have happened. LifePo4 are no problem, no thermal runway issues

[@hoocli]

@@TheFatman819 I have lifepo4. They are included. Any battery over 1kw not just lithium

[@hoocli]

@@niktak1114 they hopefully will but haven't yet

[@jasonneva4905]

I believe you can still put them inside the house in a fire rated electrical room (double fire rated drywall with smoke detectors). Possibly steel door etc.

[@jappropriatetechno-logic1504]

leader and follower in solar edge speak...... nothing wrong with master and slave. that is the correct and widely accepted technical terminology

[@craigmitchell5628]

Why not use the 15 K with built-in bypass and transfer. Eliminate the 2 transfers. I'm thinking the owner is OCD like me and not trusting the 15 K if the inverter has a electronics failure.

[@willistisdale4293]

Redundancy=more security

[@michiganengineer8621]

Both redundancy and the owner wanted the EMP protection. I believe that will be certified for the 15k early next year.

[@sharperminds4315]

@@michiganengineer8621 We just had the 15k EMP hardened installed. Used to be a former EMP engineer. Just made sense to me with the world going crazy.

[@mchabbi]

We have been told that we can say "Primary and Secondary", if you want to be PC

[@stoneoriole]

We do not wish to be politically correct. We wish freedom of speech in a free country

[@willistisdale4293]

I’d like to suggest MC and DJ.

[@seabream]

@@stoneoriole "Politically correct" is merely an acknowledgement that ones politics are reflected in ones actions. If one believes in something, then acting in a way that is consistent with those beliefs supports the things one believes in - in other words, it's correct by your politics. At a personal level it's nothing to do with freedom of speech, it has to do with living your values. So, to take a simplistic example, say that your friend tells you that they've come to a realization and now believe that the world would be a better place if people treated everyone as having a shared humanity and inherently deserving of respect, and then they make an unthinking disrespectful remark about a service sector employee out of habit, or because they haven't fully internalized their political realization, then you can point this out to them and say that they're letting themself and their cause down because that's inconsistent with their politics. A lot of groups working to improve things have similar patterns - Believe in women's equality? Don't make misogynistic jokes. Believe that class based wealth concentration is corrosive to a free country? Don't support cuts to taxes on the wealthy or education funding. Believe that people are fundamentally good and that by and large the harm they do is based in ignorance? Be understanding and try to encourage them to expand their awareness and show them the good and bad that they do that they may not realize. etc... etc... When it comes to people in public office, or where they are looking for support from others "politically correct" can also function as a shorthand for things that fit with the politics of the people who they're representing, or a group that they're a part of. Depending on the person, that may not be consistent with their beliefs, but they may need to behave that way to get support from the people they want it from. At a personal level it may be politically correct if they believe in behaving in an electable manner. Similarly, in some positions, by virtue of the place they are in, in specific situations people may have a duty to behave consistently with the politics of the group they're attached to in order to stay part of it, even if in their private lives, they may behave differently. For example, in some jobs there might be codes of conduct that one might need to uphold while on the job because that's what you're being paid for. So you might need to treat a customer with more courtesy than you would if that weren't the type of relationship you had. Or as a teacher, you might have certain things that you are required to teach because that's part of the curriculum, and you might have limitations on things you can say (e.g.: profanity) because those are the values connected with your position. So getting back to whether or not to use "Master and Slave" for electronic components. If you believe that the usage is harmful and outdated, not using them would be politically correct. If you believe that the people it harms don't matter so you'll continue to use them, you're also being politically correct, just consistent with a group with different values than the previous example. If you use them around a customer who finds that usage hurtful and worrisome and it harms their trust and goodwill towards you making it less likely that they'll want to send you more work, and you care about staying on good terms with that customer, then that might not be politically correct, depending on how you weigh the various aspects and whether or not you work for someone who has relevant policy around how you behave around customers.

[@ramonmacias9013]

​@@stoneoriolepolitical correctness is just another name for CENSORSHIP

[@adamosity7127]

Such a quality install and gear ruined with an ugly disconnect installed. It's not that hard to cut out the rock and recess.

[@Adirondacks4me]

So will the home owner live long enough to break even in the long run or just has enough money burning a hole in his pocket not to care?

[@SUNofNY]

Will you live long enough to break even on your life insurance policy? Do you break even when you go to the Dr? How about lunch, did you break even?

[@sharperminds4315]

It's a fair enough question. Grid-tie solar without batteries can have a reasonable payback period (10 years typically, 6-7 years if one conserves), but batteries push that recovery period out many years. Financing via solar installers adds ~36% to the cash price and shouldn't be done. Finance through a local bank, a 401k loan, etc.). For new construction, the investment can be built into the overall mortgage. We paid cash for our system, but I wouldn't consider us to have a hole burning in our pockets. We live way below our means except for travel. A 10%-16% rate of return was enough to justify the investment and we won't have to deal with huge electric bills in our retirement years (prior to that $500-$600/mo. in the summer wasn't unusual - now we're at the minimum $25/mo.). The purpose of investing in batteries and a generator is maintenance of lifestyle in case of a long-term grid outage, rather than considering the rate of return (e.g. during winter storm Uri, a friend of mine in town went a week without power). You kind of toss the ROI on those. It's the illusion of independence, but it feels nice.

[@ALink2Zelda]

yolo

[@Sanwizard1]

Screw the PC crap. Master/Slave it is. Those who try to change history are doomed to repeat it. That being said, I love this setup! Expensive though I am sure. Please share your wiring diagram on this install! Its exactly what I want to do.

[@NdxtremePro]

I am increasingly convinced they aren't doomed to repeat it, they are excited to repeat it.

[@walldemarserbia7213]

Normal = Grid Tie

[@johnmirbach2338]

😎👌👍🖖✌🤓

[@Je.Suis.Flaneur]

Expresions like ATS and PDB make no import to viewers, Mr. Engineer 775.

[@shotgunreport]

I can't watch your handheld phone videos. The random motion makes gives me motion sickness.

[@gxr3633]

yes, he needs to invest in DJI OM5 or Pocket 2 😄

[@Kebekwoodcraft7375]

@@gxr3633 I think it’s the speed you moving from one place to the other ?

[@SrDelbioLima]

15k is a lot of Ks 😂

[@offgridphilosophy7959]

It's dishonest of SolArk to call these inverters 12K when they do not produce 12K.

[@niktak1114]

They do produce 12k (assuming you have enough solar connected)

[@MrThat0nekid]

The 12k has to do with the allowed PV input to output + battery. Not dishonest, just look at the spec sheet.

[@offgridphilosophy7959]

You guys are trying to explain it away. It's still dishonest to the unexpecting and un tech savy customer base. The majority of people that will purchase this will think they have 12 KW right out of the box. Shame on you SolArk.

[@niktak1114]

@@offgridphilosophy7959 Out of the box you get 0kW (like any other inverter). To get 12kW you'll need solar panels.

[@offgridphilosophy7959]

Symantecs? Seriously? You have no case. If SolArk was honest about it they would label it 9K with 12K potential. Run along now fanboy. EDIT -- I apologize for calling you that. I should know better.