Solar Panels, Get The Best & As Many As You Can!

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

My Link for Heatable Quote: heatable.co.uk/solar?Electric_Vehicle_Man&Affiliate&Solar

[@barriedear5990]

You have compared output per panel, but would be more interesting to see output per ££'s install cost.

[@RBcymru]

It will take most systems 10 to 12 years to return the cost of the system. See my comment above.

[@LateInAugust]

I think you need to lay out the cost of each system and the saving over 10 years. It appears Harry's system is better, but how much money is saved vs additional outlay of cost

[@RBcymru]

It will take most systems 10 to 12 years to return the cost of the system. See my comment above.

[@deansh8506]

I went for a budget off the shelf system after doing a bit of research in my 2022. 14 x 400w Trina Solar (5.6kWp) 6kW Solis Inverter 14kWh Pylontech batteries. System is working beautifully. I am producing around 5500kWh a year and a payback period of approximately 8 years on my investment. Lovely.

[@aaronvallejo8220]

In 2015, I had 10 335 watt SunPower solar PV panels installed on my newly shingled southern facing roof on my 110 year old garage in Arizona. They were the highest efficiency panels available at 22% and Cradle to Cradle certified for clean and circular re-manufacturing. On sunny days they produce 22 kilowatt hour of electricity. 6,000 kilowatt hours annually. At noon on sunny days 3,000 watts. On cloudy days at noon 800 watts. They bring a smile to my face when I drink my coffee and look at them.

[@RBcymru]

But not in Europe buddy

[@aaronvallejo8220]

@RBcymru Correct, Arizona is not England. I am glad to see solar and inverter technology is now so good that it is economically advantageous to install systems in low solar radiation regions like England.

[@RBcymru]

@@aaronvallejo8220 I live in the UK but not England. Summer time my 4.8kw array blasts out power but winter a trickle.

[@TrevorHa]

To swap your system doesn't make money sense. You would need scaffold, micro inverters, change the hybrid to Ac3's inverter and then lose efficiency charging your batteries. There will always be something newer and better that comes along. The key fact is what you already said, when getting panels get as many as possible first time. Also a compare in 10 years might show different values. If one of Harry's micros fail and then add on cost of scaffold again to get up and replace it etc etc etc

[@cingramuk]

You missed the most important metric, the cost per kWh (installed cost). Harry's system may well be lower kWp output but may have cost way more (esp with micro inverters). So it may well be costing him more per kWp to produce energy in the first place. Also as you can (currently) sell output to Octopus for 15p/kWh and with an EV buy it back off peak at 7p/kWh, you're better off with peak output in the summer (depending on the cost of kW to produce it) And micro inverters don't always have lower start up. If you string a hybrid inverter differently you can get higher voltage sooner than a micro inverter can start. The problem is then that you'll have to design the system properly rather than just slinging panels upto the max the MPPT will take. Victron dealers will do this for you (at least they should). My startup with my Victron kicks in sooner than my mate down the road with Tigo optimisers. True it's not micro inverters but shows the design makes difference.

[@tonyfeasby1437]

Yep with you on that. The install cost is a major part of the comparison

[@samuxan]

The time when energy is generated is quite important as well, almost double production in November matters more than the extra edge in june or july. If I remember correctly from a previous video he had more production early in the morning and late afternoon. That's also a big advantage of having that design. In my case I regret that the installers couldn't fit the system as it was design, you may pay extra for the best but in the moment they are on the roof something unexpected might force them to change the layout. My system was supposed to be 4 panels south east and 4 south west but because of unforeseen complications I ended up with a worse layout of 6 panels facing south and 2 south-west

[@ndiggadee2663]

The new longi panels are 440 watt each about 80 pounds on city plumbing so 10 panels should make what your 14 panels do. That’s what I’m going for this year

[@indymind]

I suspect it is more about the micro inverter and lower start-up. I can not believe that a study has not been done in low sun areas like the UK, but clearly not. Heatable (REA) panels are also dual facing with transparent material in between. This video is the only one with a real-world example, although it is not fully scientific. Where is the government (net zero)? Where are the manufacturers (marketing)? Where are the universities (science)? They should all hang their heads in shame. I chose to go with Heatable for (apparently) the best on the market. Due to be fitted this month.

[@ndiggadee2663]

@ I’m surprised 14 panels are only producing 2350kw for the year that wouldn’t even cover my usage on electricity

[@indymind]

@ndiggadee2663 Worth a discussion. I chose the micro inverter route after a house fire, but we need to gain information from the gvmt. Why are we all relying on KZbin videos? It is crazy. The gvmt should have set standards.

[@Hansen710]

why not just use a optimizer that does the same for alot less cost if you are storring the juice on a battery you might loose many % of your power by converting from 12v to 110/220 and then back to low voltage again just to convert it back to 110v/220v when you have to use it half of that is avoided with a string inverter and optimizers if you want the best fire safety dont install solar on your roof the fire department might need to acces through the roof to stop a fire and no matter what solar does contain a fire hazard with or without micro inverters

[@robertredpath4817]

After watching this, I did the calc per panel of my array. 320.33kw per panel. Cheap 405w longi panels @ £54 each. The 16p export means each panel I add to my array would pay for itself in a year!! That’s crazy.

[@georgepelton5645]

Do you mean 320.33 kWh?

[@williamclark6466]

This is very telling. Thank you for helping us understand how important a well designed system is.

[@tonywebb9909]

Budget usually performs similar. However its more down to the installation methods, like using scaffolding, running cables safely, never putting equipment in a loft/attic, smoke detectors, whole house certification. But most importantly no leaks on roof or fires in the fuseboard. The job is for life not just Christmas

[@simono4991]

I bought a solar plus battery system from Heatable after seeing your original video with them last year. It was only installed in mid November so I don't have much data to go on yet, but it certainly generates in pretty dull conditions.

[@georgepelton5645]

EVM, I expect you just need to replace your inverter(s), not the panels, to get the benefit of electric production at lower voltage provided on cloudy winter days.

[@SolAce-nw2hf]

I have a string inverter on SW and Enphase IQ8 series micro inverters for the NE panels. The string inverter was a big headache with a chimney blocking the current. The IQ8 micro inverters are great as they have a big capacitor that gathers energy in bad weather so the inverter overhead is only there for a short time to burst the energy to the home and shut down again if the sun is still blocked. I am not sure if the price difference is worth it compared to a cheaper system, but not having another inverter in the home, complex shading on this roof and a 25 year warranty from Enphase were very compelling reasons to spend a little more.

[@jacobnewman3172]

We moved house a few weeks ago and yesterday had the south side completely covered with 16 x 500w bifacial Eurener’s. In the brief moment they saw some sun yesterday we peaked at 4.4kw.

[@sargfowler9603]

Sounds like a bit of knowledge is worth a thousand dollars! Someone that really knows their stuff will save you a load of cash in the long term.

[@carltonlane8931]

Thanks for the video,happy 2025 to you,family,and viewers.

[@livingladolcevita7318]

didn't know this was a thing. I'm maxed out panels wise but seriously thinking of getting more batteries and charging them up overnight on the cheap electricity at 7 pence a Kilowatt especially in the winter.

[@sargfowler9603]

That's the way I'd go. On Tomato Energy I can charge for 6 hrs at 4.7p per unit. Just get a load of batteries!

[@richardgore2000]

Was going for 13 panels originally but ended up installing 19 panels, east west, 10 east and 9 west all with Tigo optimisers so I can monitor what each panel is producing. Within the first year 4 optimisers need replacing. 5100 kw produced according to the Givenergy v3 inverter (with 9.5kw battery) love the Givenergy system but not impressed by Tigo. We are in Colchester, Essex

[@johnrush3596]

Interesting video. Our east west panels average 305wh and the south around 340wh. They are 295w panels and a from 2018.. i am convinced that the solar edge optimizers do not work well in low light as pur winter yield is not wonderful.

[@Electric_camper]

I just got my old panels onto a new inverter and that had an adjustable starting Voltage. On my old Inverter everything was dead with Current weather. On the New one they pull 2,5 kWh per day under same lame conditions. Its not much, I know. But they do produce it. Whereas earlier I never got it.

[@stevendavidson5808]

woohoo , got same as harry. I do have 14 panels 410w. but 4 are mounted vertically on gable end of my Semi. love your vids mate, cheers

[@dave3gan]

Good to know. I wasn't aware of this

[@elmojito]

I think that you are simplifying a bit the reason why Harry's panels/inverter produce more. Yes, there is probably a difference because of the panels but quite a bit more is due to the use micro-inverters. Besides the panel efficiency, your panels have already lost some efficiency because of age as well as maybe a bit dirtier from more time of weathering and his are brand new (clean). Also, I would try and be more specific as to east/west as each exactly orientation, as well as inclination, also has an influence. In addition, are your panels being affected in winter by any shades? In my installation I do have the problem in winter with some tree shading that does not happen in summer. The easy answer is to just say the panels are the reason but I would suggest you try and really understand where it is coming from. I say this as I am now doing the same in my home in Spain as I see in December not only the shades but the effects of the calendar with less sun hours, lower sun elevation which creates shading, etc. In my case, all standard Fronius inverters, I have 2, and 405W and 450W panels I produce 3X more in summer than in winter.

[@jcfallows]

When i was looking at solar panels i was offered two systems, £500 apart i asked why would anyone pick the cheaper system, he said the expensive panels would produce more power in bright sunshine. The cheaper less efficient panels would produce more power on duller days, so overall they could produce the same total power over the year. So what does one do?

[@ziploc2000]

FYI, in 2024 our 10.53kW installation generated 13,506 kWh, in Eugene, Oregon. We have 26 405W panels, split 12 facing SE and 14 facing SW.

[@ryancoates3683]

I went for sane system as just just off the shelf 4kw (10 panels) with a 8kw battery think my inverter is 3.6kw works really well just which I have a much bigger battery and like Harry’s system kicks in earlier as in winter I get barley anything but overall still happy with it

[@Pgutube]

Very interesting. Is a heatable system really that bespoke? Whatever address I put in (few around the UK) I seem to get the same options for the system? That's fair enough as they seem to believe in the systems the use but it's not bespoke to each property as far as I can tell. That leaves me trying to work out if it's worth the additional premium.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

@Pgutube An online estimate is just that, they won’t know your specifics without actual contact.

[@Pgutube]

@ElectricVehicleMan ah thanks. I didn't realise that. Do you know what the variables are that make it more bespoke than the online estimate? I'd be really interested in a video of how they and Harry bespoked his system

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

@ Types of inverter, variation in panel optimisation.

[@Pgutube]

Oh wow. This'll be my third solar install. Be very interesting to see how they offer those variations compared to what's of the website estimate. Look forward to discussing it with them. Will report back here. Cheers

[@Chester-UK]

Definitely worth spending more on a higher performance system. If you calculate that your existing system has paid for itself in savings, and then some overhead of course, I’d still wait a bit until perovskite based systems become economically viable to install. I’d say that should be somewhere between 2028 and 2032. I’ll be upgrading and extending from South only to West as well. I’m also thinking of going totally nuts and considering North facing hopefully finding a panel that’s good for low-level refracted light. Will that work? Hope so!

[@drrock999]

I seem to be on target for 386KWH per panel on a south facing roof not far from you. Not quite at the full year yet. Pleased with that, and also with my GivEnergy AIO.

[@serraios1989]

How many watts are your panels? In any case 386kwh per year is smashing. In 2024 I had 330kwh. Best year 2022 with 406kwh from 395w panels

[@drrock999]

@ 410w each

[@Sean_S1000]

Were type n panels even available when you had yours installed, as they are suppose to work better in in defused/low light

[@michaelheathcote9488]

338 kwh per 400w Trina panels in West Yorkshire for 2024. If would probably be more but our 6.4kw system is capped for export at 3.7kw so we loose a bit at peak times if we aren't using it.

[@jimray2961]

Thanks for the comparison. I was going to go with micro inverters for better optimisation in shade and a longer warranty, but chose a similar set up to you when I decided to add a battery. It didn't make sense to me to convert to ac, back to dc for the battery then to ac again for the house. Also the lower fire risk and possibly longer lifespan of the battery chemistry. Any data on the conversion losses? Apologies if you've covered it in another video.

[@iaincs]

The big question is how much did each installation cost to work out how much the overall price in the long run ?

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

I thought I said in this video. He paid about £1500 more than a budget system for his house.

[@ravisharma9683]

@@ElectricVehicleMan stop copping out what was the actual price of both systems?

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

@@ravisharma9683 It won’t be of any use to you. The difference is all that matters between his budget vs his premium as that’s the only comparison we have.

[@ravisharma9683]

@ElectricVehicleMan thanks for replying, sorry to say the comparison is only showing us part of picture. It seems like wild assumptions are been made without like for like spec of premium Vs cheaper system.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

@ It’s not about the panels, it’s about the designer of it. Tailored vs packaged.

[@johnh3095]

Ive been playing with the heatable site and cant decide whether to go woth a cheap battery that got buy 2, get one free, or the Tesla powerwall 3 that is fab value when you break it down! Great video, i dont mind your shameless plug on a sponsored video. Shut the ney sayers up with a proper lay down video, house orientation and miles apart, aspect, roof angle etc and then do the numbers. Happy New Years to you and Harry, may 2025 be a boom year for your channel!

[@Beyondact]

Go on your local weather service and pull out amount of sun hours for the relevant months, feed it another set of numbers for more detail.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

We have the same.

[@Beyondact]

@@ElectricVehicleMan Yeah I know which is why its interesting, very comparative with those 2 installs so close. You mention often "its Yorkshire" and splice it out in to each month and I think its globally known how the weather is there in those months but with sun hours it'll define it even better. It'll also give a comparaison point for those contemplating buying a solarpanel setup which is a slight bit better than Yorkshire. Down the line it'd be a funny additional stat to pull out as each year is not the same and half shade sun days which are the most common 60% of the year. Its not a huge difference from just going by months but depending on how much work it is I'd find the numbers interesting.

[@gavjlewis]

Its really a video about string inverter vs microinverter. Any install now should be using type N bifacial panels as they are only a few pounds more. I think within the next couple of years the old type P panels won't really be sold as factories stopping production of them.

[@constructioneerful]

I am in the same situation - 20 panels that might be better swapped out. But I 90% think I would wait for a year : get two full years data to make the case more certain for the KZbin channel - and then also by then have perhaps a better idea of the income the solar is likely to generate given how the tariffs are changing a bit. Yea maybe get quotes in now..if it’s super cheap then just do it earlier.

[@AdamAugustPhoto]

Very interesting. My 14 year old 3.6kWp South facing array produced 3280kWh over 2024. Similar latitude to yourself. This was a bog standard install by a rent-a-roof scheme (looking forward to the end of that contract). Would be interesting to see what a tailored system with obviously more modern equipment would produce here.

[@GlossaME]

Wow. You were ahead of the game for quite some time 😊

[@AdamAugustPhoto]

@GlossaME I can't take the credit. It was the previous owner of the property. Unfortunately with it being rent-a-roof I only benefit from the energy and not the export. But seeing as they get paid for generation not export, I can theoretically get an AC coupled battery to make the most of it.

[@GlossaME]

@@AdamAugustPhoto do it! Don't forget you can have quite efficient heating from that same unit.

[@dennisbean5569]

Mine are the same age and size. I am getting about £2,700 per year in FIT payments. Those companies knew a good investment when they saw it.

[@trisknight9430]

I’ve got a 4.3 KWh system August generated 542 kWh 4.9 kw inverter 10 panels south facing

[@ashleyclark4310]

So let see if I got this right you add up how much your solar panels produce each month. Then divide that by the number of panels this will then give you the efficiency of the panels. I have 14 panels 450 watts and if this is correct the figure came back as 519 is that correct I don’t live in UK but the Philippines average temperature is 27c all year round

[@radiotowers1159]

12 trina 425w panels south facing Central Scotland for 2024 produced 334kW per panel for comparison. Upgrading your panels is a bit like increasing your battery capacity ........I keep coming up with reasons not too and stick with what I have, The grass is always greener as they say..

[@raymondgray4268]

More detail would be useful. At what level does each system start generating?

[@ryanmason491]

Years ago brands mattered. There was a period where brands/the technology maxed at around 250W then the larger more notable brands started developing 300W+ panels whereby the cost became more justifiable. Now with a level playing field and similar wattage I don't think the brands, certainly ones twice or three times the price justify it. Solar cells are simple technology. As long as they have 20 year + warranties that's where my money would be going - if its a £70 panel so be it! Pains me to say it but this sponsored video feels a little too pushed.

[@dropshot1967]

From what I understand, beside Harry's panels having a higher capacity, the major advantage he has is that his (micro) inverters can start generating power at a lower light level. Would it be an idea to start by replacing your inverter with these same micro inverters, so that you can also make better use of low-light circumstances? Unless these micro-inverters would have significantly more power capability than your solar panels, you would not loose out on the high end anyway, seeing as Harry is capped by his inverters.

[@markyates5744]

167 Vs 288kwh per panel is not the whole story!l The newer panels are 440w each and physically bigger than your presumably 320ish panels. New panels are 1.8*1.14m older are 1.65*1m Heatable have a bifacial panel with a transparent backsheet. Other companies sell similar. It's apples and oranges!

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

It's not a panel comparison and never was, it's a system design comparison. Off the shelf vs tailored to your situation. Clearly, the more expensive system saves/earns that much quicker that it's worth the extra.

[@andymccabe6712]

@@ElectricVehicleMan I do believe, EVM ...that you're wasting your time tying to explain this - relatively simple , concept to your average punter..... .....they simply can't get beyond the idea that you're trying to SELL them something..... !!!!

[@Jaw0lf]

I fitted panels a long time ago andif I were to fit them now, there is obviously much better technology out there and things such as micro inverters are more common. What was the cost of install for each and I am aware that is a difficulyt one due to inflation and then also cost of panels dropping due to increased production and more competition.

[@chipmunks1965]

Happy new year

[@rbdogwood]

interesting. I was restricted to 2.7 kWh (I think) and by the size of south facing roof, so I'd have been better off with the more expensive set up. It was just at the end of the first tariff period (2011 I think) so the tech was less advanced.

[@simony2801]

When you factor in install and upkeep costs vs how much money they pay you how do things look.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

@@simony2801 There are no upkeep costs.

[@pmac6584]

Your system generated more energy and if you sell each unit to octopus at 15p per unit then yours is the best system. I try to use only battery power at 7p per unit and sell all my solar and end of day spare battery back to the grid. My inverter is a Lux 7.4kw and I have 18kwh LFP battery with 4kw of south south west facing roof. I get about 3200kwh solar. I was paid £105 by octopus for export since October.

[@johumm455]

really scientific approach, but wouldn't it be easier for the rest of the world to tell the total surface area and the Watts/ square meter/feet ??

[@markyates5744]

I strongly expect a mistake in your panels. Have you checked they're all wired. Have you checked total voltage is correct? Voltage is relatively constant in a string inverter. Easy to forget to wire 2 panels

[@nervousfrog101]

Does one of you have a sting inverter and the other micro inverters? Startup voltage is more dictated by the inverter rather than the panel I suppose one is bi-facial or that could make a difference as generally they don't quote the power generated by the back on the headline wattage of the panel. I have two arrays both on the same roof with no shading. 10 x 185W panels with a 2kW string inverter from 2011 and 9 x 410W panels on a 3.6 kW inverter from 2022. Proportionally both systems produce more or less the same power annually. I am in the South East so maybe peak capacity is a more important factor.

[@grahambate1567]

Excellent video

[@JamSoupMusicLols]

What was the delta between the 2 installs?

[@geralddavison]

Very useful. Thanks!

[@stufq]

Hi could we have a youtube link to Harry solar panel and installation coz I'm interested which panels he went for

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

Heatable link is in description. REA panels.

[@benholroyd5221]

I'm not seeing any evidence that the micro inverter is the primary thing making the difference here. Heatables panels seem to be N type, bi facial panels. Is that not the thing making the difference? Also why are the micro inverters undersized? this seems more 'cost reducing' than 'premium'

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

Undersized so they start up at a lower voltage. That's why he get's more in greyer days, which is most of the year.

[@andymacleod2365]

swap the inverters if the system will ever payback

[@davidjohnbarnard]

Is it possible to change to the type on inverter Harry has but keep the existing panels - that wat you get some benefit but no scaffolding? Make great content if it is possible

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

Micro inverters are on the back of each panel.

[@kevinperree7764]

Am I understanding this correctly? Your average would charge an EV roughly 3 times in each month?

[@grahambrown42]

I think North of say Paris you would be better off investing in batteries to store overnight off peak electricity. Just when you need most energy, you get the least solar. In an area where you need more cooling than heating, you get the MOST solar just when you need it.

[@fritslevie4461]

At night there is almost no demand but batteries will become important, you are right.

[@grahambrown42]

@fritslevie4461 My point is you can use the battery to store 6 hours off peak @ 7p/Kwh, guaranteed 365 days per year.

[@eezawyrdo3052]

I seem to remember you had some panels left over, if you still have them, is there anywhere you can put them or would that negatively affect the roof panels if they don't generate enough?

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

I still have them but nowhere to put them. Roof is full b

[@gavjlewis]

​@@ElectricVehicleMan Temporary ground mount system in the garden as it's not like you will be using it until May! 😂

[@TrevorHa]

@@ElectricVehicleMan Wall mount?

[@robin5215]

absolutely agree👍

[@ians3328]

I went with 22 panels and GE AIO from an approved installer. They were useless and GE really should have a scheme of actually rating approved installers. Only a few miles from you and getting a lot more than you, but then I should. The issue I have is that some of the panels are 90deg set to others in a string and producing 1kW less than the other string (note AIO so a Solis String Inverter). When GE engineer was here fixing the AIO he was amazed that there was no Optimisers or Micro inverters on that string. Never mentioned to me by any of the 3 installers that quoted ! So even if you try to buy the "best" you can still get dumped on by bad installers. I do have another roof which faces NW and it does seem that it could be worth doing - though I do know it will not get the generation of the better S orientation. I do have a spare DC string input in the inverter and space on my G99. With prices falling on everything it will be worth it soon. What I really want to do it put some on the wall that faces south(ish) to pick up the low winter sun, with the dual sided panels Harry has; BUT that was vetoed by the boss who must be obeyed. So please do suggest to GE that they have different levels of installer so that we, the customer, know who to choose. Not to mention saving GE many call outs to fix their mess of an install. Also looking forward to getting a 2nd AIO when cost comes down. Originally was going with exactly what you have but wanted the automatic power on grid fail.

[@johnharrison373]

I had no choice. My panels were installed years ago when there wasn't such a thing as micro inverters.

[@stuartburns8657]

As a GE employee you can't be moving from their inverter to none GE ones surely?

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

I have a GE inverter.

[@stuartburns8657]

@ElectricVehicleMan I know, but I thought you said you might consider different panels and microinverters? GE don't do those do they?

[@binmanblog]

Why not tell us the brand of panels and inverters Harry had installed?

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

@@serraios1989 Actually only Heatable do the REA panels. And the video is about system design over off the shelf, not specific panels. Clearly you’ve missed the point.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

@ If that’s the case, pal, then how do you explain the hybrid inverter and different panel model with my brothers install?

[@binmanblog]

@@ElectricVehicleMan What I was looking for was information on the type and make of panels, for instance monocrystaline, "P" type or "n"type. There is no need to get defensive! I have been following you for 3 years and I have valued your independent opinion and the knowledge you shared.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

@@binmanblog I was talking to the other guy, not yourself. He’s posted on this video several times, basically a troll. Almost everyone is using N type now. Def better and no longer really expensive.

[@80y3r9]

Looking trim!

[@MrDufben]

Return is too small to waste time and energy fine tuning, even though UK has ridiculosly high energy cost but low sunlight. Best to move to the Med to save energy on winter heating and increase solar power.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

@@MrDufben Roght because that’s easy. 🤦‍♂️

[@MrDufben]

@@ElectricVehicleMan I appreciate your channel and reply, but for some people, it might be. £ per KWh is ridiculous + lack of sunlight in UK is getting to a breaking point. I have an EV + solar, and I am a climate change sceptic btw.

[@MrDufben]

I have 8 panels, which powers about 7,000 EV miles per year excluding loses. The last few months have been dull, dark, milky and unnaturally cloudly. Solar is a good investment, but not if it requires any intervention to maintain and clean the panels.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

@@MrDufben There’s no maintenance and there’s plenty of sun to justify it. 4-6 years typically for a ‘payback’. Panels are dirt cheap now.

[@robertcollins1371]

There is no bespoke design for Harry other than standard fitting. As far as I can tell Heatable only offer the one panel type and only install them with micro inverters, it seems like they would offer the same thing on a south facing roof in the south. EVM has budget P-type panels on string, Harry has premium N-type on micro. It is well known that N-type panels are better, degrade slower, and last longer. The only lesson is go with N-type panels, other N-type panels are available and this video doesn't address budget N-type vs premium N-type panels. These video series also lead people into thinking micro inverters are the best solution, i'm not saying they are or aren't, it just isn't a fair comparison as the panel type is also different, so you can't tell how much of the difference is due to Panel type or inverter type. So are premium N-type panels on micro better value than budget P-type on string? Well yes but the unanswered questions are: - Are premium N-type panels on micro better value than budget N-type panels on micro? - Are premium N-type panels on micro better value than premium N-type panels on string with optimisers? - Are premium N-type panels on micro better value than budget N-type panels on string?

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

Heatable put a hybrid inverter on my brothers array, no micro inverters at all. So they don't always use the same. He also has different panels to Harry. Again, different.

[@RobRob-w4q]

EV man is now Advert Man

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

@@RobRob-w4q Yeah you’re right. Look at the amount of sponsored videos I’m doing. They’re non stop!

[@andymccabe6712]

@@ElectricVehicleMan Ha...! ..this subject REALLY brings the Muppets out to play, doesn't it, EVM ... !!!? EVERY form of denyer out there ...!! ....most entertaining.....!!!

[@andymacleod2365]

from that data will the systems ever pay back

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

@@andymacleod2365 Usually within 4-6 years.

[@raybishop8006]

l can see how you got harry's 288 kw but for the life of me l can not work out how you got 167 kw, every time l work it out it comes to 291 kw how did you get 167 kw

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

@@raybishop8006 I have 14 panels, he has 8.

[@asdfhun]

2335 kWh/14 panels. Which is dumb, because he compares it with 2309 kWh/8 panels. While the panels are not the same, both in watts and in size (and those 320W panels are at least 6 years old, so there is some minimal degradation to factor in if it was installed 6+ years ago). The numbers should have been 2335/4,48=521 kWh/kWp vs. 2309/3.44=671 kWh/kWp It would also have been better to only compare results if he has data for an entire year not just 8 months.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

@ My panels are 2 1/2 years old, not 6. Plus it’s the inverters, not just the panels that matter.

[@asdfhun]

@@ElectricVehicleMan then you probably got some (very) old stock, hopefully dirt cheap. In late 2020 360-380W panels were the current ones. 320W is around 2019 i would say.

[@ziggarillo]

But in the end you paid less per khw produced. You don't get higher quality electricity from higher quality panels.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

No but you get more electricity to use or export.

[@dennisharvey4499]

I can't see that output per panel is in any way useful. The total amount of energy produced is almost the same. It is the payback period which is more important, so the installation cost is the most important consideration. The next important factor is the maintenance cost: I decided against panels due to the cost of paying someone to clean them once per year. The most unreliable component will be the inverters which do not have a 20 year warranty. Replacing an inverter will cost more than replacing a panel. My neighbour, who has had panels for about 15 years, has recently had to have his roof replaced due to leaks and this cost about £8,000 because the panels had to be removed and reinstalled.

[@andymccabe6712]

Hello...'Dennis'....! ...my system was installed 13 years ago...I never clean it(no discernible loss of output .!)..and nothing has ever failed...the system paid for itself in 6.5 years....and, because I get the full feed in tariff, I'm earning progressively more each year - with 12 years of FIT still to go ... .....how does that sit with your negative approach to solar PV...!?!?

[@Roedy_Coedy]

I fear I may be looking at this a little too simplistically… So you spent less than Harry (quite a lot less you seem to be making out), and got 26kWh more over the year (so far), but he should be able to claw that back in the missing winter months? Seems like a no brainer to throw whatever you can on the roof as soon as you can afford it regardless of if it’s a tailored system or not and save money immediately rather than potentially saving a couple 1000kWh over the course of 20 years having paid noticeably more up front…? That added onto the potential issues with micro inverters (another KZbinr had an issue with one of his and needed to get it replaced under warranty, thankfully being a bungalow that’s no issue for him… but my house…that will be a scaffolding up job…) means I’m likely to go for a “box” system and hybrid inverter rather than a snazzy all singing all dancing one. First up though is the outlay to tear down my chimney as that would cause shading. Probably cheaper for me to drop the chimney than spec micro inverters haha.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

Harrys quote for off the shelf vs the one he got was £1,500 more. He'll get that back in a few years and then be way ahead.

[@Roedy_Coedy]

@ oh! It came across in the video as it potentially being a lot more! In that case then yes as you say best off getting things done properly from the out!

[@Stormin_Mike]

Who is "Harry" ?

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

See previous videos.

[@Stormin_Mike]

​@@ElectricVehicleManWatched a few (out of order ooops) but must have missed names...will do

[@asdfhun]

Terrible comparison. You can't compare two different systems just by generated power if you do not have/disclose ALL the information on those two systems. Do they face (exactly!) the same direction? 25 degrees can make up to 350 kWh/year difference on a similar size system. Does the two roof has the same angle? Anything about shading (trees, chimneys) on the two locations? Harry has microinverters. Do you also have microinverters or a string inverter? Any data to back up the claim that yours start to generate power later (like on 2nd of october on a shady day mine started generating power at 7:54 while his started at 7:36 gaining him an extra 0.35 kWh on that day as you can see the two graphs from the monitoring systems on the screen)? Though if your 14 panels face the same direction, i hardly believe that's the case. More importantly, you cannot compare generated power/panels if the two panels have different wattages. Like how? Why? Of course a 320W panel generates way less then a 430W one. Your 167/288 in reality is only 168/214 if you adjust it with the panel wattage, so Harry's system is only 27% better than yours, but as i said above, you failed to share the reason why.

[@Sam-mb1yk]

A microinverter system is more "throw it in" than a string inverter. Not sure why you claim it's designed just for Harry, it's just X panels and X microinverters. Less thought involved

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

It was the best for him. My brother got diff panels and a hybrid inverter. He's down south.

[@neilm9400]

I did contact Heatable, but the battery options were limited. Powerwall or some other brand, when I wanted Sigenergy, maybe in the next couple of months they will add Sig as an option. Also contacted Octopus, but they are limited on battery options as well. I can see that gap between the tailored system becoming bigger through winter, but more data is always useful.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

Givenergy is all you need! 🤪

[@neilm9400]

@ElectricVehicleMan 🙂

[@danmurphy7338]

@@ElectricVehicleManSolax is even better 😝

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

@ Solax! 😄

[@danmurphy7338]

@@ElectricVehicleMan it’s all we install mate. Never had any issues and we have a good relationship with them. Never had a reason to install anything else. I am the kinda guy that goes by “Don’t fix, what’s not broken”.

[@matteoricci9129]

...you completely skipped economics, is it worth spending more?

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

Pretty sure I said it's clearly worth spending more.

[@matteoricci9129]

the comment that got more likes said what I ment better

[@tonyireland2234]

I'll stick with convential electricity and gas.Then my house won't advertise I'm tight.I won't have to sign a massive finance/bank loan.I don't have to worry about pigeons nesting under these loony panels.EV's are so cheap these days.Massive depreciation.How come you never mention the ngatives ?

[@TheRonskiman]

Unless Harry's house is next door, with identical shading, orientation and panel pitch this comparison is meaningless. It's just another shameless advert for Heatable who have a preferred system

[@mole3171]

This guy has a point, unless the houses are very close e.g. in the same street, there is no guarantee you got the same weather. Maybe if you had 10 years+ data there could be more of a reliable comparison.

[@ravisharma9683]

@@TheRonskiman Totally valid point.. sold out to the sponsor!

[@jamesgrover2005]

He said they both have east/west orientation.. and clearly they live near each other.

[@TheRonskiman]

@@jamesgrover2005 I understand how PV works, do you?

[@malcym3394]

N that case you could never compare any two installations.

[@ravisharma9683]

Sorry this is NOT a fair comparison.. totally different setups and feels like a money 💰 grab.. Really disappointed, have some shame man!

[@wotireckon]

I don't think it's supposed to be a "fair" comparison, just a demonstration of how important it is to tailor your setup for best efficiency. For example I knew you could get different inverters, but had no idea of the subtleties between them. Therefore; a very useful video! Thanks EVM!

[@ravisharma9683]

@wotireckon if it's not supposed to be "fair" why do the comparison? Simple case of selling out to the sponsor.. money 💰 grab! Testing conditions should be like for like ie.. solar array size and orientation, location etc.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

@@ravisharma9683 Are you for real? Shall I build a house just so we can do a side by side comparison. Plus you’ve missed the point. It’s about getting a designed for your situation system vs an off the shelf system. Not any in particular. Don’t like, don’t watch.

[@ravisharma9683]

​​@@ElectricVehicleManif you can't do a fair test ..stop with silly comparison with uncle Bob. No solid foundation or proof please stop. I appreciate you have to keep your sponsors happy.. but let's keep it real mate.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

@ You don’t see a pattern with an 8 panel system generating more than a 14 panel system in the same area, facing the same aspect? I explicitly said it’s not scientific, that would be impossible, but it does point in a direction that you will be better to pay more so you can generate more. That won’t come from a company whacking the same setup up and down the country.

[@RBcymru]

Having loads of panels only benefits the power companies and NOT the consumer. You work for an energy company so no wonder you are telling us to install as many panels as possible. You need to use all your energy you produce and NOT give it to the power companies or it takes longer for you to pay back. If you have an EV you might get some free charging from your solar and run your heat pump but if you haven't then you are paying for extra panels to give the energy away while being ripped off by your energy supplier. My solar array is 4.8kw but my battery storage is 10kw which I use cheap electricity in winter to charge over night. I can't see all my energy I produce in the summer so end up virtually giving it away. Give all the facts nit just the ones benefit YOU.

[@ElectricVehicleMan]

@@RBcymru For one, I don’t work for an energy company so please don’t question my credibility. And two, exporting is better than using on most tariffs. There you go. Facts. I get 15p for export and pay 7p at night for import. Do the basic maths!