Vanguard Tier List (Post GBT13) Predictions

[@DifferentFight]

Damn really liked the breakdown of Tier 1.5, overall good points tbh I would maybe put Messiah in Tier 1.5 though just because as long as Chaos is meta it will almost always win the matchup, and from being in Tokyo I've been seeing that happen a lot in the local scenes (although as time goes on the Messiah players are just jumping ships to some of the G-BT13 decks) Another deck I think might shine quite well depending on Chaos' presence is Nociel - the new support helped it overcome some of its earlier weaknesses and its 2nd place finish in WGP Tokyo definitely proved a point, but in the end it comes down to matchups so I think we'll have to wait for a couple more weeks to see if it makes a bigger splash or not, especially in the west. Also editing sexy as hell :')

[@SolemnVanguard]

Thank you! Yeah, I definitely see Nociel being a thing as well :D I didn't put in Messiah because its only solid matchup is Chaos and it's a sub-par beatdown deck beyond that. But I do see how it's a solid choice now that Chaos, etc.. are running wild. I'll keep it in mind :* :D

[@DifferentFight]

Oh yeah for sure, the moment Chaos is out of the equation then Messiah will jump right out with it (unless it gets some god-tier support in the Star Gate EB)

[@zikrihakim6455]

Nociel the meta of the old eh? Looks like they coming back.

[@gobtherookie9046]

How about ezil messiahs gets rekted by ezil and chaos somewhat should he be 1.25?

[@windwaker0rules]

also freezeray might help messiah in the west

[@Gergbnaks]

If the new meta is control, water about charge spikes? They have a limited field but especially post gbt13 they'll be able to get quite a few attacks off whilst keeping a relatively good hand size, thoughts?

[@chippy89ify]

Hey solemn can you direct me to where you got those pictures of chaos decks topping? The time stamp is 2:04-2:23

[@shyguy13100]

You've definitely earned yourself a subscriber. Your videos are well thought out and nicely based by the information on Asia tops, and it's clear to see that not only does your information drive from your ideas but your experience too. Keep up the great work!

[@SolemnVanguard]

Truly appreciated! :)

[@windwaker0rules]

also i got to ask does deletors have a good match up against chaos because deleting chaos breaker screws with the draw skill

[@shoelesseagle]

... so gurguits new resist and circle targetting cards dont help get around link joker? And gurguits constant flooding of the board doesnt help them deal with kagero's board clears? Ok?

[@Imitationist]

What are ZTB's options against grade 1 rush/stall?

[@mclovin23t74]

What about new grade 3 Garmore liberator and new cards for unlocking link joker?

[@saekikayako8336]

where can I find a good build for chaos link? I'm looking into building it and I wanna see what's all ran in it

[@JeffDarkspawn]

What about Bladewings? True there also rear guard centric but can the survive with the inmense defence? Or win on the OTK.

[@SolemnVanguard]

I mentioned "dark irregular" in general ;D

[@JeffDarkspawn]

Solemn Vanguard seeing it back i hear it. For some reason i heard scharrot when seeing his picture whaha my bad.

[@tenshirokurokami2723]

How about bermuda ? I mean they got lock counter and tirua would be happy if they clear the field for free stride

[@fulgurkillua0016]

Is this fate? I finished making my blaster deck and now focusing on Overlord, Harri and link Joker (messiah or breaker) because I wanted my brothers to beat me and I want to beat myself which I can’t using half baked decks(unfinished Overlord and Harri.... and GCs are 😐)

[@deadmanflames1726]

Is there one for end of G trying prove a point

[@Alice_Haukea]

Aww, so are Angel Feather no longer good? I thought Gavrail was solid meta still...

[@fullmetalcrazie]

Where does Time Leap GC fall in all of this? I been seeing a lot of ZTB everywhere but I wanna know where Time Leaps fall in all this. They did get hit yes, but they can still pull of some absurd combos.

[@williamsvlogs8743]

Devilex San time leap is so easy to die with deck out

[@songokhan8293]

I though yaisue would be here on 1 because of the way shadow stich plays with your mind it like will I guard now because I will have to let it through later and if they get the first stride they can really mess up your hand and your power in your first stride

[@Ninja_Bryden]

Weaker Bloom? Our combos are not glass-cannony and we consistently get at least 4 attacks. Honestly the fact that people keep comparing Mura with NN irks me. They are VERY different playstyles. They just happen to also call clones

[@calebloh8676]

I feel that i can never make full use of thavas new stride skill. Rather than giving resist to a unit, my combos involve using the ability to grant shopra/melania backrow atk as they can hit vanguard alone. However, they alr have tesist so the ability is wasted. Ultimately i end up with only 1 resist card on the table at any given point in time and my tidals/adelaides or the offensive core of my deck breaks very easily to control decks :(

[@SolemnVanguard]

Against hand-trap/control decks (denial/heteroround..), you can easily give resist to Tidal/Adelaide/g3 Thavas. You generally don't need to hit 3 battles pre-stride attack because Alexandros is battle 2-3, rather than 4 like Lambros. Against non-control decks, it makes perfect sense to give Shipra/Melania the back row attack.

[@calebloh8676]

Solemn Vanguard i see....but the thing is, i actually intended to atk first with tidal, den shipra/melania from BEHIND before atking for 3rd battle with alexandros. Then both shipra and tidal wld restand and mitros wld call a thavas in FRONT of shipra which can atk on 4th battle to restand agn. Otherwise, i wld have to call thavas OVER shipra/tidal thereby wasting a restand and 5k power. If not, i wld have to call thavas BEHIND and lose 2 atks

[@BcDyxaLKgoNdgU]

Where would you place megacolony/Gurguit?

[@joshuamcfarland5867]

Do you know of any vanquisher decks that have topped in asia

[@Mastamynd02]

Definitely didn't see Messiahs, but in Japanese tops listed on the Bushiroad JP website, you can find several tops abound. Maybe you may have overlooked them or forgot about them I guess? I'd definitely place them above Tier 1.5 seeing as how they do great against the double control kings (hard counters Chaos and runs well against Overlord)

[@kirileonhart4484]

wouldnt Gurguit also be in at least 1.5 cuz they did have an unlocker support which is actually good

[@EVAKirby]

I'm curious, how have Tsukuyomi and Susano'o been topping lately? I was under the impression Battle Sisters made them irrelevant.

[@tesseygo]

Messiah t2? It's just so good for me, can i know why did you put that in t2- ? :)

[@SolemnVanguard]

It's not as powerful as Luard, Blade Wings, Battle Sisters, etc... and it only really counters the Link Joker decks. I'd probably put it in T1.5 if I could remake the video, but it would disappear from the list the second Chaos became irrelevant :)

[@zikrihakim6455]

Problems for messiah is basically the deck, like Blasters and BatSis, is rear-guard centric. What happened in most matchups in the current meta is they juz getting whole field wiped straight away. And the setups always need really2 specific cards in correct order to work. Unless StarGate gives something good, they juz being there to beat up Chaos

[@ykchen6461]

Completely disagree. It's RGs are immensely more powerful and multi-attacking than Luard, BWings (depending), or BaS (in terms of power, not Ichi). It counters basically everything with RGs, and even if not (as in even if the opponent has no RGs), it's still going to make it's own locking-unlocking multi-attack shenanigans, + Harmonics Neo Messiah's field boost and guard restrict. For drawing pieces, it draws at least 3 cards (not counting turn and triple check) every turn, so it honestly doesn't care about getting field wiped. Their defense + offense is easily T1 in the stride game, and isn't as combo-centric (as in it can work with really everything) as you say

[@Shinimawastaken]

What do you think about harri with the new promo stride coming out in set 14?

[@SolemnVanguard]

I think it's a really good card for Harri, but we're getting it a little late... It was great from chaos until Zoo, but if set 14 power creeps as hard as the past sets, this upgraded Harri won't be enough to make the deck super relevant :/

[@bdot223]

Should I make a messiah deck or a luard deck? Money is a bit of an issue for me and I have one of the latest trial decks for both, with some rondeau of chaos and salvation cards for messiah. Please help

[@SolemnVanguard]

Luard is waayyy more expensive than Messiah. Both are getting support soon. I'd say take Messiah if money is the main factor :)

[@bdot223]

Solemn Vanguard but does the power of luard worth it? Well since I’m broke asf what should I buy in order to start my messiah deck?

[@ZenoxZagna]

So Messiah is in Tier 1 to combat Chaos right?

[@SolemnVanguard]

Nope, because it dies to most other decks :P

[@FluffyBumples]

Ugh I finally pick up Battle Sister and now Control meta is back and rush meta is dying. Was going after Chaos but might have to pull a few strings and go for Overlord.

[@bdot223]

Should I try and make the Dragonic overlord deck or keep my messiah deck? I right now have the newest trial deck for messiah but literally nothing for Kagero but the legend deck may be a good start so which one should I make?

[@SolemnVanguard]

The dragonic overlord deck is gonna cost you A LOT to build. It's one of the most expensive decks out there due to how much the GR strides and unflip PGs cost... Really good deck though :)

[@bdot223]

Solemn Vanguard really? Someone told me it would actually cost less to make the overlord deck

[@cmapunisher6011]

What can i do to start playing vanguard while not spending too much

[@SolemnVanguard]

Exactly as I laid out in the video :) Buy 2 trial decks or a legend deck, find which upgrades are very cheap and go from there :)

[@serrio6006]

How come you put gold paladin in tier 2?

[@stanloonapristinallothergg7630]

what about murakumo tho, their new support adds a ton of pressure and shadowstitch is at its peak

[@songokhan8293]

Also I have a question why do people run tidal assault

[@SolemnVanguard]

He's super free (CB is very expensive in Aqua Force) and is a solid early game card. Perhaps his value will decrease as more decks get their good 10k grade 2s. But I don't see us cutting him any time soon. Not needing CB is amazing.

[@MrSuperkamiguru]

Im not hearing anything about messiah, are they not good or are they just not being played?

[@SolemnVanguard]

They're a good counter to Chaos, but not against other stuff. I could put it in 1.5 just because of the chaos countering though

[@vongolawingjace2364]

Safly my beautiful blaster have been kicked out of tier 1 but whatever, im still gonna play them, and thavas now apparently

[@ken5354]

What about new messiah deck?

[@theodoricwijaya7283]

what is hand trap?

[@SuperOdod]

what about messiah they should be higher??

[@foxxipenguin]

Nightrose doesn't deal with Chaos well at all. If they're forced to call as lock over their front row rear guard circles, they're in a really bad spot, and unlike the new Harri, they don't have outs to Lock.

[@SolemnVanguard]

True, that's why they tech Pokkur and the ditch+draw G guard.

[@xHeartGold]

Is blade wing out?

[@xavierchrome6632]

Where messiah fall in it deals with chaos but does fairly well in early game against overlord but no in late game

[@SolemnVanguard]

Yups

[@xavierchrome6632]

Solemn Vanguard will u build any other deck

[@zikrihakim6455]

I do hope that messiah is a solid purgatory-1.5. XD

[@SolemnVanguard]

LOL

[@zikrihakim6455]

Well, i do understand the reason why its not mentioned. They do top wgp tokyo and basically kicked out most Chaos or Omega players in Malaysia tho'. Well they juz brick hard against Overlord.

[@christophermatthew7635]

I agree

[@jonyfba]

Hey Solemn, Really liked this video and you actually put me thinking about thavas breaking through the control kings, but can you send some builds for it please? I'm hyped for aqua force this year so.

[@SolemnVanguard]

Thank you! I'll probably upload my own build sometime soon

[@dubiouslobo9190]

As a Vanquisher player myself. I loved that little side rant you did about his placing in the meta. Solid video dude tho I will say you forgot to mention Messiah and Blaze but I'll just assume 1.5

[@SolemnVanguard]

Your assumption is correct. Thank you! :)

[@windwaker0rules]

also i see a deck who came second here that wasn't mentioned WGP2017 ファイターズクライマックス(東京地区・Bブロック)入賞者デッキレシピ

[@IAmAHappyCamp3r]

What about spike brothers. The new support is downright solid

[@CAD_FeiRy]

Hi I got a Question, so basically I've been out of the game for 3 years and I've decided to come back with my old deck(with new support added of course). The thing is, I discovered that my deck became somewhat broken during a period (SGD) and now that control deck is the meta I wondered, is my deck still somewhat good? Or at least viable? Like control has always been my nightmare even back then, but now everyone around me is telling me SGD is pure garbage nowadays but I really don't wanna throw this deck away... I really liked it and I played it for so long, way before it became OP...

[@SolemnVanguard]

I think 16 crit SGD with the blaster engine can be really good still... the issue is indeed the control right now. I think you can still rush most of those to death before they get their engine rolling though

[@CAD_FeiRy]

thanks for the reply! I'm definitively gonna still play it then

[@willhelm94]

Have Golds been topping at all? I can't imagine Link Joker having fun against them with cards like Improve Falcon and Militant Dragon around

[@kohapu2770]

barely, they can't counter other poppular decks (ott, blaster, kagero) and their finishing power relies on getting crit triggers with helios, that might not be consistent enough :/

[@serrio6006]

Kohapu umm golds don’t have one finisher. Yes Helios is a finisher but you also have GRD,law and raidiant sword. Golds have amazing power with multi attacks. I’ve won games on GRD, Raidiant sword and law either by back to back law or first stride law. You also don’t need to sack crits on your Helios turn to win because you have things like pwyll for multi attacks, bullrgal as well as horsa for big number rearguards for gurguit and ezel.

[@khuajinlong291]

Glorious Reigning is super good since it filters deck and creates extra attacks but doesnt have the stamina of Luard and the early rush game of Blasters/Sisters

[@serrio6006]

Khua Jin Long I play things like elio and Vivian for early game in gurguit And it works in my build. Yes gurguit doesn’t have the early game like blasters and battle sisters but there are things that can still help the deck with early game. Against luard I have no issues as I can break through their hand and force out g guards by 1st stride. Sure luard has more stamina but at the same time they can’t win and push when focusing on recovering hand each turn. Gold still has a chance like thavas and Harri which are decks that toped at Jacksonville regionals in autumn. It’s just mainly how you pilot the deck. Also gurguit can generate a pretty good hand with Jeffery,gigantic ringer,scarface lion. I’ve recovered from early game aggro on my 1st stride and was able to get my hand back.

[@khuajinlong291]

I always call triggers except Scarface with Viviane though, maybe it's just luck How consistent is the deck though? And how does your list look like?

[@ahmes004]

Vermillion is tier 2 or 3????

[@stefieeland1838]

thanks for the video. but doesnt chaos shit on nightrose? I know nightrose shits on everybody else but rosal night nightrose does not counter chaos

[@SolemnVanguard]

Nightrose doesn't shit on everybody else. Nightrose players are teching in pokkurs and the ditch-draw G guard. Nightrose is one of the few decks that can consistently fetch pokkur (AND has the room for it). It also gets to wipe its own field every turn, so only the lock-from-hand cards are live.

[@henlo9690]

Solemn Vanguard actually there's other means to get rid of cards that will be locked or is just unlocked at the end of the turn. There's something called Nightrose Gb2 and fatal shade. As a Nightrose player, I always use fatal shade to get rid of non hollow units. (Gb2 skill and fatal shade is practically the same thing) When a unit in hollowed is locked, the skill is nullified and won't retire. I use the cards I mentioned before to call over it. (Also people start to tech in old pgs that doesn't need to guard from hand, because you can guard from the drop zone using Fc g-guard)

[@teamkirin7]

Where do you find the list from Asia?

[@SolemnVanguard]

FB groups from those countries + Twitter

[@PainEditz]

is blade masters bad? i thought they would be up there

[@SolemnVanguard]

Nahh, they should definitely be 1.5 imo :)

[@ethoslai1367]

can tell me why neo nectar is still tier 2?!

[@CrimsonMelty]

As someone who plays Tachikaze, you can drop Gaia from tier 1.5, it still hates control as much as it always did, and the new Stride is just a minus on a locked field which only serves to not let your opponent plus off locked fields. Plus Dogma is unusable as ever against Link Joker still because Deluge forces you to have locked cards anyways.

[@SolemnVanguard]

Oh yeah, it's not like the deck LOVES seeing control or anything... But compared to loads of other decks, it can deal with them when played right.

[@aajackson35]

Informative and hilarious in terms of editing. Well done. Out of curiosity, where did you get the decklists from Asia and such? From Twitter

[@SolemnVanguard]

Thank you! :) I'm part of various FB groups from JP/Singapore/Malaysia and also Twitter is a big resource of info :)

[@captingamer29]

Good stuff I personally think Chaoa is going to phase out soon till the extra booster. Overlord has too good of a match up, issuper popular and a bunch of other decks can get around lock including both Aqua force variants due to the blue wave pg and the generic g guardian Im also skeptical on overlord. He obviously good, but I question if he'll stick around for long. I dont think he is a major jump from Kouen at all. He might fall off like almost every kagero deck has after its' initial set release. We'll see

[@Masterofalltoys]

Good breakdown of Tier decks and the way you put 1.5 in different categories is very accurate(at least for me). I don't really have a competitive VG in my country but its nice to see how the world reacts to new sets coming out. BTW - Thavas for life! :-)

[@alexg.9250]

Really good video overall,I really appreciate that you started doing tier videos since there aren't any other channels that do them anymore afaik.This will certainly be very useful for when I start testing all the new decks. Also in future videos like these could you either put links in the description for the decklists that you show in the video,or make the images in the video bigger?It's a bit hard to tell what some of the cards are,especially since a lot of them are new cards that not everyone can recognise immediately.

[@SolemnVanguard]

Thank you! I'm one of the only people doing these because people will ruthlessly put you on blast for it. They'll call you out for even the smallest thing they don't agree with. Luckily, I don't care ;P The deck lists usually come from various Facebook forums and the hashtag VGCS on Twitter (when certain decks topped), so it's pretty hard to link them up in the description :s

[@TheTrueTrevor99]

What about Blademaster Kouen?

[@marcjubin7354]

As an AF player: CBD: have you seen Nutrient Angel and how hard it shits on LJ? Overlord: Eden lets us call mid battle phase now so we have more retention. It's numbers aren't that hard to guard (still find zeigenburg more annoying then the purge)

[@kylekentv]

LOL Messiahs should be known as the "Sniper" meta decks in Tier 1.5 of Purgatory simply because when Chaos goes crazy, Messiahs just swoops him, calms them down then just leaves. Good prediction list though. I'm still hoping that Fenrir without Wiseman gets boosted to at least the lower levels of 1.5

[@frit-yawfsaga3348]

Good analysis matey... valid solid points etc.... I main knight rose myself” well my only deck” and I will definitely say your spot on with regards to her...... have not really found anything else that calls to me to build honestly.....

[@christophermatthew7635]

Where are the Messiahs?. . .

[@ryab7556]

I play harri so chaos dosnt bother me except deluge that shits on me

[@SolemnVanguard]

It's annoying, but you stand a solid chance, unlike decks like battle sisters :-)

[@fyrdausabani]

The breakdown is very true tho especially for the Tier 1 As the first day of the GBT-13 was release, there was like half of em using The Destiny while the others using Valeos and Chaos in CFA.. *RIP BLASTERS*

[@SolemnVanguard]

Yup! I'm sad to see my full foil blaster deck get ripped apart haha

[@pabloruiz5821]

After this sneak peek I notice that blade master should be at least tier1.5 because it can still fight against other that don’t lock

[@watt5409]

How about altmile? 😢

[@watt5409]

Hope bushi does something to bring these 2 decks back on meta

[@orlandobittencourt5475]

We will just wait for Blasters new support probably in gbt14

[@capturedgaming7394]

haha yeah right,wait for that

[@mcmegane9183]

Well, messiah definitely deserve a mention here (coming from non-messiah player here). An ability to abuse the loop combo( metallic, arousal, unlock g1 messiah n lady fencer) really deserve a spot in 1.5 tier. The only thing killing this deck is overlord. Deletor is 1.5 tier tbh and this coming from deletor player here. It maybe just my tier negative infinity luck, but deletor suffer from multiple attacks deck

[@windwaker0rules]

so if your name was kai your deck is top tier XD

[@SolemnVanguard]

Kai best Thavas player confirmed ;P Hahaha

[@windwaker0rules]

well they restand a lot which is his gimmick, he also was a narukami player for a while

[@GuardianCircleCFV]

Awesome video man, always like listening to these meta breakdowns :) Now, since Kai got a new Overlord Grade 3 and 4, I'm going to predict something and this might be rather obvious (or not) but, I can only imagine that Ren and Aichi will also get new units later on, plus considering how much more of a role they've been having recently, I wouldn't be surprised :P It would be so cool if they made a new "upgraded" Blaster Dark since it's been quite a while since the Ren Legend Deck came out and I might actually loose my shit if the made a Grade 4 for Aichi that's some sort of a take on Majesty Lord Blaster or the Light equivalent to Phantom Blaster Overlord... omg the possibilities :O I mean the new Dragonic Overlord The Purge is basically a take on Dragonic Overlord The End, it could happen :D

[@ryan-po5og]

QnA please ahaha. Just finished your ZTB deck profile. I also love your HOW TO BEAT series. Maybe make a series called HOW TO PLAY? Would love to see that! So people know what to do and stuff!

[@SolemnVanguard]

Thank you so much! :) What kinds of questions should I answer in a QnA?

[@ryan-po5og]

Anything tbh lol. Just announce it on any social media webpage and see everybody's response. I would ask one thing lol. I know you are in the music career and stuff. Why did u have interest in vanguard?

[@pabloruiz5821]

What about blade master 🤔

[@zygas25]

Overlord powercreeped them

[@cmapunisher6011]

The thing about this game is that when i want to start vangard how am i suppose to get a decient deck if cards cost money. Im poor and to play any card game money is the way to win.

[@SolemnVanguard]

Money isn't the way to win... I know plenty of trash players with expensive decks who keep losing... A friend of mine won a Bushiroad qualifier with a 20 dollar deck. Some decks cost money, of course... There's supply and demand in every card game. It's the way these companies make a profit and keep existing... But some decks can be bought when they're cheap and then get support later on, making them expensive. I built a Blade Wing deck for like 50 dollars before they got their hyped support. If you hunt down the expensive highest tier decks, you'll always pay a premium though.

[@SolemnVanguard]

You could have built Thavas for less than 100 dollars (without Platos) before they got their support.

[@rolypolyproduction7902]

How about blade master

[@HelixElement]

Harri is bodied by Chaos until we get the new promo Harri. Also DI is good in General? Stil Vampir Scharhrot Tier 1.5 confirmed

[@SolemnVanguard]

I stated this assumes the promo stride, quite clearly... As for the second comment: Scharhrot and Blade Wings are both solid decks. If you say shadow paladin is good in general, no one assumes demon world castle deck is 1.5

[@HelixElement]

Solemn Vanguard I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was affirming since I play Harri in English format without the promo. And the Stil Vampir is a joke because I do in fact play 2 Stil Vampir in my Scharhrot build. (I can only compete in locals so I can afford to run something like that). I apologize if I sounded like I was being rude.

[@lifeless_life]

So no improvement for Angel Feather? That hurts haha

[@SolemnVanguard]

Some people say nociel is solid now, whilst others seem to say they're hella mediocre... I'd like to await some more results for that one :p

[@lifeless_life]

Solemn Vanguard oh hello, wasn't expecting an response haha. So there's hope, I suppose?

[@raphealrowland92]

I love both of u solemn and df

[@SolemnVanguard]

Truly appreciated! :)

[@DifferentFight]

Thank you! :D

[@animal_wilson7391]

Would love to see a colab with you and Different fight where you guys just have a meta discussion over video chat or something. Love the content from both you guys

[@SolemnVanguard]

Thank you so much! I'd love that.

[@michaelandrew7440]

I won against a Chaos user with my ZTB deck because I trigger sacked on the 3rd stride. I also crumbled a Blaster user with my Chaos deck.

[@oldaccount1194]

How about Blademaster

[@SolemnVanguard]

they should definitely be 1.5 imo :)

[@michaelcao53]

Where's Blademaster?

[@LuisGonzalez-lf5dc]

You forgot gold paladin I think there 1.5 because Gurguit got top in one of the regional and is good agAinst overlord and chaos

[@justinayala18]

happy that nightrose can still compete i love playing the deck still and im mostly gonna be using that and messiahs

[@DuelingCharisma]

Please another

[@franktorrone5055]

For the first time, I guess I will have to disagree with one thing... Messiahs are easily Tier 1.5 on this list. They can generate insane power thanks to Metallia Messiah, they have the capability of indirectly restanding themselves by unlocking, and there is the draw power that the deck has now. (I always fine myself holding 10-15 cards in hand at the end of a turn) Not to mention their CB management is pretty nice and then, my favorite part, the fact that they have several combos that can generate 200k+ power in a turn, all for an extremely cheap cost. The Awaking Messiah combo in particular can generate, at bare minimum, 224k power (excluding triggers) all for just 1 Soul blast and a G Flip from Harmonics Neo Messiah, and this results in a 6 attack combo. Ther eis also the fact that they do have the option of being a sub-control deck thanks to Basaltis and Flageolet Messiah. Flageolet's omega Lock can keep your opponent's field in check while still pulling off that aggro play while Basaltis is a psuedo Trans-else that allows us to choose our Lock/Unlock targets, which can potentially lock your opponent's entire field and unlock your own along with netting you a draw in the process. Yes, Overlord can nuke the shit out of it with Denial, but the fact is that Messiahs can be a real threat and while I agree it doesn't deserve the Tier 1 Treatment, it is definitely a solid Tier 1.5

[@Arrow-nz8ts]

one word unit to put messiah in purgatory trans-else messiah might be really underrated but it flips the table on chaos and can just have some fun with that big hand size only needing to deal with overlords vanguard so yeah

[@ykchen6461]

T1: Seems good. I might move Thavas down to Purg, just because they lack early game pressure and is RG-centric, meaning if they brick, they can't just Chaos/Overlord VG solo for a turn. Purgatory: I would just have Messiah, not only because of how it shits on Chaos and Deletors, but also that once they get started, their offense and hand power are easily Tier 1, and with Tier 1 control, it's probably overall a Tier 0 stride game. Their lack of early game has to be mitigated by damage trigs, 10ks, and just luck, though. I just haven't found Deletors to be that good, 12 stands or not, Given or not. If the opponent has any form of hand power, or their GB2 is something end-of-turn (i.e. Kouen, Garmore Excel), Deleting just doesn't put on as much pressure as you'd think. T1.5: I mained Vanquishers post GBT-12, and with the meta so different now, I would say they moved down from this T1- level to just solid T1.5. They're really strong, and probably have an edge against other T1.5 decks, but they're not on the same plane as Messiah. Also, I would add Blademaster (think you just forgot) and Gurguit, because they can afford have a pseudo-early game and first stride Scourge Point is nigh unguardable for anyone, +Regan's Resist means Denial Griffin is just dead. Helios from that point on just wins games against anyone. From experience GP (Garmore too, now that memes are consistent) easily shits on Overlord and Thavas with a little bit of luck

[@serrio6006]

YK Chen don’t forget ezel with the raven haired ezel combo to make Helios only g guard able.

[@jcs63]

Thank you for such an insightful analysis I absolutely agree with. I play Blasters and Battle Sisters, so that makes me sad. But I have Overlord and Messiah (still to be completed), so maybe I can do something about LJ, if it becomes prevalent in my locals. Thanks for the awesome video.

[@SolemnVanguard]

Thank you so much! :)

[@muthusamy2334]

Wait, people actually think Purge is trash? For reals? Also instead of numbers you could use alphabets (A,A+) for tier lists

[@SolemnVanguard]

Yeah, they really believe that :P Next tier list will be Tier Pony, Tier Turtle and Tier Hedgehog.

[@muthusamy2334]

Nah how about 12 tiers like ZTB, NOW people won't rage at 1.5

[@dubiouslobo9190]

Just wanted to say that the people attacking Solemn for using tier 1.5 please shut up. Tiers are subjective in nature as are the categorization of them. Using 1.5 does not detract from the points he makes. Another thing is that he explicitly tells you to change it if it bothers you so much to a different grading scale that you may be used to. So please, people on Reddit, KZbin commentators and the such. Stop attacking this man for his opinions and thoughts regarding the tier list. It just provays an environment of toxic cancer that shouldn't be waded through by any means

[@SolemnVanguard]

Thank you! :)

[@guardsaber6446]

Pretty solid list :D people are starting to see Vanquisher as a threat all over the place

[@SolemnVanguard]

Thank you!

[@wenseentay6506]

Where is messiah ? Messiah is also one of the deck in meta tat can anti cbd

[@SolemnVanguard]

It can anti other LJ Decks, but it has a tough time in other matchups.

[@wenseentay6506]

Solemn Vanguard it is kind of a fast kill deck , kill quite a lot of deck in malaysia wgp , just tat miss 1 game to go to top 8

[@khuajinlong291]

Depends on the meta, Messiahs are essentially a 'Purgatory' against a Chaos-heavy meta Tier lists are just a rough gauge of the general meta, that's probably why people disagree with tier lists.

[@khuajinlong291]

I like how you use your music video style for some parts of the video xd

[@SolemnVanguard]

lol, you noticed ;P

[@sakakilois4506]

That basis for tier 1.5 got my subscription

[@SolemnVanguard]

LOL, welcome aboard!

[@Neptune8]

Harri build next video please

[@SolemnVanguard]

I wish!

[@Neptune8]

Solemn Vanguard I couldn't find the build you referenced on the cf-vanguard site , so if you know where I could find it let me know.

[@Rataldo20]

no messiah in tier 1.5? what kind of "TOPS" have you been watching then.

[@SolemnVanguard]

Yeah, it should've been in there.

[@voidcard2988]

Messiah #1!!

[@wongkoonsang7789]

Keyboard warrior with a mouse

[@rexconman]

You forgot to pur messiah on there

[@SolemnVanguard]

Yeah, I could see it being 1.5 because it fucks with Chaos but then it'd drop out the second Chaos becomes not-important :P I should've put it on there

[@potatoexe5410]

While battle sister does have a bad matchup vs LJ vs overlord it doesn't care at all. On another note deletor isn't hard to play. Just stop trying to go for delete end or run things that try to facilitate it. I'm looking at you 7k g2 dude that people run for god knows why.

[@halcyon703]

I really like your tier list it really suits my idea. I hope you would make more kinds of video such as this.

[@SolemnVanguard]

Thank you! I will :)

[@maxih.7231]

I think the predictions are Very good but you missed another t1 Deck and that is messiah