WHAT TO BAN IN VANGUARD (Ban List Prediction)

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[@nharviala]

I don't feel like they'll touch V at all, you can safely skip that format. If they cared about its health, they'd have done something last year before it's been almost a year and a half of a stagnant format. And this saddens me, it's the only format without OTs.

[@Schmaglow]

I think that's the reason why they don't care about V. They seem to hate the fact that people hate OTs.

[@nharviala]

@@Schmaglow I really, REALLY hate that you're right. The moment they ban OTs in Standard, I'm all in... but DAMN is that a terrible mechanic!

[@pikago1811]

That MonaLisa+Pigeon comparison is too real xD 💯

[@adamdarrar121]

Don’t touch thavas 😂 please god

[@Hihitoto23]

for sure they are banning over triggers this time right?

[@jonathanowens300]

He said ban raindear unban cutire solemn for president plz

[@tristanalain9239]

To add onto DP my friend plays it. He feels Unibird should be hit because its just that dumb. However I agree with Solemn's sentiment here on Linka making it basically being an autowin. My personal feelings are: Linka is a toxic card, I would love it to be banned.

[@이상한오징어]

Or it would be good to prevent the simultaneous use of the two

[@necrobach4854]

​@@이상한오징어 Then we just Gallop V Laurel power double

[@halokid2544]

We banning og bass Kirk for granblue. Can’t have you turbo megablasting on turn 3. 😂

[@이상한오징어]

Too strong a card like Katrina and Gredora is the core of the clan. If banned, the entire clan will be hit hard. I want to compromise with 1 restrictions, or restrictions on input with certain cards.

[@이상한오징어]

To add, I think a very strict Fighters rule is unnecessary at a premium

[@manofthepeople2165]

Agreed. Millista is the only MUST hit. Gredora is next, then Narukami, but honestly, it's not necessary to hit those decks.

[@windwaker0rules]

honestly Vanguards problems at the moment is all about promos and stupid printing policy. Its honestly more annoying then the OT.

[@zeff3016]

Imo granblue should absolutely not be hit because i just built it

[@ViehTee]

I don't see how Steve and Exterminate are fair together. I would like to see a choice restriction between the 2.

[@virgilpingleton3498]

I believe it should have been double a normal trigger or 50k.

[@MrBBAF]

I just want the OT gone. If I had to choose between a mill deck in the game or an OT in every deck you know I would choose the OT being gone forever.

[@이상한오징어]

Me too, OT just gives games an unreasonable experience, and it's always just troubling that there's no way to respond.

[@minhsangle9210]

myrtoa can go to 1 so it can be play in highlander and decrease consistant of mill deck

[@JudaiMaverick86]

No Solemn, OTs will NEVER be banned

[@SolemnVanguard]

no u

[@Schmaglow]

And that is why V format has seen so much of a revival in the past year or so

[@JudaiMaverick86]

@@Schmaglow As much as I like V, I dont think thats the case, proof? A lot of the springfest tournaments had so little V attendance that the teams fights had to change to individual fights.

[@anthonycurto5654]

I actually like that it went to singles compare to having teams in v

[@JudaiMaverick86]

@@anthonycurto5654 great :) but I think you are not seeing the big picture here, that kind of stuff gives Bushi more weapons to axe the V format.

[@machina5]

Gredora is so toxic that it's gunna get Narukami hit instead lmao

[@manofthepeople2165]

Keep premium fair: ban mill Keep premium fun: limit gredora and demolition Keep premium competitive: ban overtrigger Keep premium meta confusing: hit narukami, link joker, dimension police, granblue, nubatama, neo nectar

[@whisnu_ayodya]

bro what's with the neo hit lmao

[@manofthepeople2165]

@@whisnu_ayodyapeople don't realize that NN is actually best deck after you hit Gredora and Granblue. Deck is just unga bunga, hit big numbers and multi attack with katrina and V promo. Plus you have a 23-28K base vanguard on opponent's turn if you use the G guard.

[@whisnu_ayodya]

oh right, I forgot they released Green Kat. Eh well, I wouldn't want Green Kat if I can't have my 4 Gredora so yeah, hit them again so they be in the same level as AnF in Prem lmao@@manofthepeople2165

[@xArtsyy]

Granblue along with Shadow Paladin is also my favorite clan, I’ve had plenty of time to think about it. The best hit to Granblue would be banning G Grenache. It literally says CC2 for basically free.

[@manofthepeople2165]

The issue with hitting granblue is that so many pieces overlap in what they do so the overall game plan doesnt change much when you ban something here or there. We have a million different counter chargers (bale, king serpent, cutlass, unflip PG, cray elemental) so someone will figure out something if you try to target one specific counter charger. You can try to just slowly chip away at the deck, but at this point, why is it necessary? The deck isn't as good as people think, even if you hit Naru and Gredora, there will be decks that can easily roll over Granblue (Naru, DP, NN, OTT) and the matchups that are 50/50 (Highlander, Shiranui, Link Joker). Like why did people suddenly say Granblue is an issue? People who actually play Granblue know the deck has issues because you don't have much of an early game and your finisher is pretty slow.

[@xArtsyy]

@@manofthepeople2165 I probably should’ve went into a little more detail. I don’t believe it should be hit either, I’m just saying, IF THEY DO. Grenache IMO would be the best one because it alone CC’s 2. I don’t believe the deck needs to be hit. Honestly, if Granblue is the best deck then we must be in a VERY good format. The deck’s very good, it’s not TOO good or even toxic at that. Only 2 hits I’d like to see is Millista & Gredora to Premium, that’s just me.

[@BuiHlinh]

Talk about banning Linka again, and I’ll game lost you to oblivion ! With love. :)

[@SolemnVanguard]

It’s ok, I want DP to get a strong win con that’s not random 😭

[@BuiHlinh]

@@SolemnVanguard I have 15 G3 in deck, for a 21 card deck, there is no randomness ôô But agreed for the not random win con.

[@windwaker0rules]

If i was in charge on Vanguard, i would make TDs that are actually good and print Harmonics Messiah to make its price fall to oblivion.

[@thesib3053]

I personally think Gredora stride should go to 1. It doesn't need to be banned, cause like Solemn mentioned it doesn't really do anything else, but for me it's kinda like Millista. If your deck is one of the clans that revolves around calling outside of hand (of which there are quite a bit) then you either have to pray to unholy Gyze that you can rush them quickly enough to kill before stride, or at least get them on their last legs by that point, or you just can't play the game and die because they shut off your deck for 4 turns for basically free. If it's at 1, or maybe even 2, then it becomes an actual game. As for Narus, hitting Demolition to 2 isn't something I've heard before, but it would make a lot of sense since it hurts the consistency for Erad's early game pressure. Either that or a hit to Exterminate would make the most sense, since like Solemn said, Exterminate kinda gatekeeps accel decks.

[@이상한오징어]

I also think it's too much for her to be banned

[@necrobach4854]

Personally I think the best way for her to go is to get an errata to persona flip rather than flip anything.

[@manofthepeople2165]

Myrtoa to 0 Gredora to 1 Exterminate to 1 There we go, format solved.

[@SatoshiMaiko]

Choice restrict Salena and Lauris I should not even be allowed to stride on Turn 2 and then follow up with a multi attack Tirua

[@danielmokobia106]

If baning the OT haters jp at least ban it in west or nerf the 10k that only problem I have with OT is the number the effect are fine to me.

[@EddricVanguard]

13:35 Super Dimensional Robo, Daiarm is ban no free + power

[@EddricVanguard]

21:36 top level of game play is fun in PH player is bad is the turn 4 OT is the Crit two or free stand

[@bakubladers]

If they really wanted to hit GB the best bet would probably be Skull Dragon to 1 or even 0 if you just want it out of the format. They still have ghostship. Granblue doesn't really need a hit though, as much as I hate playing against it as a low attack count deck.

[@SolemnVanguard]

GB is unplayable without skull dragon but yes, it doesnt need a hit

[@SuperOdod]

bring zinc to one.

[@Rarno_]

Seen a video earlier about the banlist and the comments had plenty of talk of banning stuff in granblue, seems silly to me and I totally agree with your points on ghost ship. IMO Premium feels pretty alright right now besides a few things like Gredora and stuff

[@_simplylink_]

I think Myrtoa should just be a may draw and the entire mill loop is gone because the opponent isn't forced to draw anymore. I think banning her is not ideal because she's such a nice attack extender

[@이상한오징어]

I think it's effective to change it to usable once at a turn like Riviere

[@manofthepeople2165]

I don't think Errata is a good idea, simply because if you look at Yugioh, people are really pissed off that a bunch of cards got erratad to become useless. Ban for now and if we get main phase interactions maybe unban. If you change the card, it's lost forever

[@_simplylink_]

@@manofthepeople2165 But changing it to an opponent may draw doesn't kill the card though? Myrtoa has had other uses until figured out this mill list, it's still a multi attack extender and gives deck whatever defensive line it may potentially get with Citron and any other on place like the rear-guards given by Siana. Errataing it to where the opponent can still draw but at their own choice doesn't make the card useless IMO it just makes it so that you can't use it for any mill purposes. Also someone else in this thread said changing it to hard once per turn, that could also work.

[@definitelynotmany4972]

What about choice restricting Myrtoa and Duo Pretty Horn, Ural

[@jesuslopezvazquez1213]

Nope, that just a quick fix until D release a card that does the same as Ural. The problem card is Myrtoa and the fact that is in the clan whose main gimmick is bouncing their own cards to reuse their skills

[@definitelynotmany4972]

@@jesuslopezvazquez1213 Well, yeah, but you can say the same thing about Myrtoa. I don’t mind BT using Myrtoa to plus, and the choice restriction would eliminate the loop.

[@_simplylink_]

The easiest fix would be to make Myrtoa an optional draw for the opponent so they don't deckout, that's the reason the old Myrtoa isn't used for the mill loop because it can't mill the opponent since the draw is optional

[@foxxipenguin]

Ban OTs Ban Myrtoa Ban Linka Ban Impede Dragon Ban Mizukaze Ban Hope on Damp Gredora to 1 Choice Restrict Sweep command and Vanquisher Keep eyes on Granblue and Chaos Breaker and call it a day.

[@omarilewis6399]

Man this is probably the worst take on premium that I've seen today.

[@foxxipenguin]

@@omarilewis6399 you sound like someone who doesn't play the format

[@_simplylink_]

Just errata Myrtoa to be a may draw, she's way too useful to be hit just because of mill, to solve the mill loop just make it so that they she can't force the opponent to draw if they don't want to

[@foxxipenguin]

@@_simplylink_ there's a lot of broken cards that are fixable with errata. I just don't ever expect bushi to fix them and just ban them instead.

[@Shy3k]

Nuba becomes unplayable without Mizukaze, and Solemn even states in this video how easy it is to counterplay it. Is is basically just a skill check. Why should a deck like this lose its only good card while you "keep eyes" on something like Chaos which has more tops and turns off every newly buffed deck if it wins the die roll?

[@vanguardpotential3153]

Honestly? Ban chaos breaker. That thing is floodgating all HC decks and its about high time chaos breaker V just dies.

[@mr_pants278]

- Ban Gredora because she's been around for too long and she's dumb. The argument that MC have nothing without her isn't good enough at this point, Bushi have had more than long enough to print a card(s) that can fill that void. It's not that great a deck, but it creates this atmosphere where it looks like Bushi have said that it's okay to force your opponent to not play the game because you have the button that says so and that's silly, especially for newer players, and she's been around for years, so I think it's time to let her go. - Ban or change Myrtoa because she's dumb, or at least ban interactions involving her and creating an infinite loop. Maybe put a hard 1/Turn on it so she can still be used in decks that actually benefit from the whole effect? - I also agree with the Linka hit, and would argue that Mizukaze needs to go for the same reason. Not necessarily because it's good, but because it can just steal games without doing anything sometimes. And like, it's not incredibly important, because despite it being extra oppressive _sometimes,_ it's actually not a completely unbeatable deck, but I'd also either ban Sweep Command in particular or restrict it's use with Exterminate Dragon because it's a really super unreasonable combo for very little effort. The man literally Rides, Strides and goes like, +3 and also negs you by 2 and buffs front row by at least 20k every turn for absolutely nothing. Restricting the two means that Exterminate isn't totally dead and can still be used with other bosses, you have to work a bit harder for the extra level of board buff, and the rest of the deck can remain unchanged, imo. Either hit Sweep, or deal with the early advantage this deck has, i.e., Demolition and that other G2 Erad that has the on-hit draw, whose name evades me. Highlander is fine/declining a bit, Granblue is fine, if a little frustrating to deal with sometimes because Skull Dragon is always so good at it's job. I don't really have to deal with Chaos the way others do because I main Bermuda Triangle, so I don't know how it plays out for other decks, but from what I've been told, it sounds like that can be left alone as well, I don't really have much of an input for that one. Also, ban Katrina again, because it'd be funny. I say this as someone who has a deep adoration for Neo Nectar lol

[@zeff3016]

I thought bermuda could return locked cards to hand to deal with it?

[@mr_pants278]

@@zeff3016 That's correct, removing Locked cards from the board altogether means I don't have to deal with Lock the way other clans do, so the matchup, while still not completely free, is a bit more trivialised as a result. Because of this, I don't have to play against Link Joker the same way as everyone else, so I don't really know what would need changing and my input wouldn't exactly be valid lol

[@EpicMTGMusic]

Ban Harmonics Messiah (CE). That alone will make a huge difference in premium, specially the entry point of the format. You're no onger under a 70$ entry point.

[@manofthepeople2165]

And piss off everyone who bought history collection? Better to just reprint it at some point

[@EpicMTGMusic]

@@manofthepeople2165 better have a paywall barrier than fix a huge mistake from the format? Sure... I mean, Premium was already expensive, why not make it 70$ more with a needed card in EVERY SINGLE DECK.