Solid State Batteries. Will this 'gamechanging breakthrough' really be the one??

Solid State Batteries are on their way folks! And they have been for more than a decade!! No-one's quite nailed it yet, at least not for mass produced EVs, or aviation. But that could all be changing if NASA's latest breakthrough is to believed. So is it just more hype, or is there some real hope this time?
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[@douglasburnside]

About once a week a new game-changing battery technology comes on the scene. So far, no games have been changed.

[@wayne_3791]

You win the internet exaggeration award!

[@moltoniron633]

Agreed

[@Embassy_of_Jupiter]

Turns out they are in a pretty solid state

[@magnesium_subsoil_94]

Ba dum tshhh

[@gregandark8571]

@@magnesium_subsoil_94 Whoa Whoa Whoaaaaaaa ...

[@vishank7]

how are you doing today Jupe

[@alilonghair7792]

Holey graphene! I think you're right...

[@ThatGoat]

Comedy man right here people!

[@waylonk2453]

I got a laugh out of watching the crystal slowly build toward the cathode, and then cause a fire. Brilliant editing :D

[@silentqueue2344]

Me too. I was reminded of the Reaper's skeletal finger in the dinner party sketch from Monty Python's "Meaning of Life". Next time, when you see a video of a mobile phone catching fire, think "Saaalmon mouuuse!"

[@JustHaveaThink]

Thank you :-)

[@russellthorburn9297]

I grew up in the era where NiCd and lead acid batteries where the only rechargeable batteries of any significance available. People thought at the time that it was going to be nearly impossible to improve upon those designs by any significant amounts yet here we are with batteries that are many orders of magnitude superior to those early versions. I'm confident that it won't be very long at all until the batteries used in EV's will be at least an order of magnitude better than what we have now.

[@jeffsteinmetz7188]

Will the auto industry want to build and use a battery that will outlast the vehicle it is placed in? I can see them reducing weight for more efficiency, but are they really motivated to dramatically increase cycle counts?

[@davestagner]

I’m looking forward to that. Range was and remains the main criticism of EVs. But tripling current density could get us to cars that are capable of driving farther without recharging than a human can reasonably drive in a single day. And longer effective lifespans for batteries could give us EVs that are near-zero maintenance for decades.

[@itekani]

@@davestagner I'd say range is already today adequate for the fast majority of drivers. What's lacking is reliable and accessible charging infrastructure. I think the improvements in energy density should mainly be used to make lighter, more efficient cars instead of just adding battery capacity. Especially since the cost will initially be higher for SS batteries.

[@hond654]

And their cost will be 2 magnitudes higher.

[@ltipst2962]

@@itekani I believe the big problem is actually lifespan, not even charging (though that I would put a solid second) You have to imagine the poorest of us driving EVs. Not currently does that make sense.

[@970357ers]

Fusion is the vaporware of modern science.

[@grindupBaker]

Ice is fusing constantly. Apparently, it's considered a nuisance in some quarters.

[@markbernier8434]

I am more optimistic about this tech going into small devices. Take tools for example, having an impact driver that could work all day on a single charge would be a huge improvement over the current devices where you have a rack of chargers and a crate of batteries moving around the site to keep the tools going. Perhaps a phone that doesn't need to be charged every day or where you can have the screen lit more than 10 seconds without the brightness dropping off.

[@jebise1126]

lol dont worry phone producers will find a way for a phone to use more power anyway.

[@mikafiltenborg2291]

SSB 🔋work best in 80°C

[@kensmith5694]

My Motorola Razer phone could go 3 days on a charge. Also because you could change the battery easily, you could have a spare battery.

[@teik4118]

Often times solid state batteries aren’t suitable for small applications due to large required stack pressures to minimise volume change

[@drakemia4079]

These batteries are already good when gas and diesel run out on purpose to try to Put in a authoritarian government you you aren’t completely shut down as a country .this way more kinds of energy the more free all Americans stay we don’t want some a hole like trump kissing oil cartels butt running use around .we will get better at renewable energy fast when they want to raise the prices we have options.those oil cartels will do fine but we have to stop them from sleeping together to rule our free country

[@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270]

Thanks for another great summary of this particular state of the solid art...so to speak. The problem for all ‘breakthrough’ battery tech is that they and their investors are up against a moving target of performance and cost of existing technologies. An example would be my own car. The Kia e-Niro has an NMC battery from 2019, an age ago it would seem in electric car development. The pack level energy density on the car 147 Wh/Kg, quite acceptable at the time and gives me a working range of 450 km. CATL now have NMC cells in the 250 Wh/Kg range at the pack level and 160 Wh/Kg for LFP cathode. Just a few years ago LFP energy density was not considered high enough for use in cars, now it is where NMC was 5 years ago and is the preferred chemistry being 30% cheaper, more robust, safer and needing no need for nickel or cobalt. At the end of the day it’s all about cost and if non-solid state solutions have enough range, are fundamentally safe and charge fast enough at a low price then solid state, though superior in many ways will not get a toe-hold in the market....Way to go on aviation though.

[@electrified3407]

.🤣"That's not setting the bar awfully high is it?"🤣 You really got me with that one Dave. Great show as ALWAYS!

[@IceglacierArnar]

Always good channel, thanks and greetings from Iceland

[@rikki-tikki-tavi2456]

Well researched. Thank you for the update.

[@prathameshpatil0810]

Amazing info !! Thanks for the video

[@randydyck9353]

Thanks for the up dates and clarification.!

[@JustHaveaThink]

Thanks for your support. Much appreciated 😀

[@mikemellor759]

Thanks for the update on solid state

[@leemason4024]

Thanks for another thoughtful video

[@smashingturnips5353]

You are very good at explaining things.

[@MarioVesco]

excellent piece of concentrated info

[@JustHaveaThink]

Thanks Mario.

[@douggray169]

great video - thanks

[@AnalystPrime]

The issue about all new tech is that there is an important difference between something being possible and being able to do it cheaply. However, all we really need is ability to mass produce the SSBs, there will always be a market for them. A powerful and reliable battery is just the kind of tech where a more expensive option will still find plenty of uses even if they won't become cheap enough to be used in every EV. We already had lots of people willing to drive EVs using lead acid batteries and pay huge sums for cellphones that were literal size and weight of a brick.

[@patreekotime4578]

Aerospace especially has deep pockets.

[@autohmae]

It's really hard to catch up to an existing technology which is still getting cheaper/better over time if the only criteria is cheaper. But that's the point lots of other markets than EV have different requirements than just cheaper.

[@thetalkingbear]

New tech always gives me hope for the future. It just needs to be implemented if it works properly.

[@scriptguru4669]

lab builds will be amazing, then capitalism will cost save to LD50 warranty +1 day

[@scratchy996]

If we could harness the energy of the tech hype built on hope, we would have infinite free energy.

[@TheHorseshoePartyUK]

Here's one. Why are NO Climate Activists ever talking about the company Ecotricity's Gas from Grass? it's *nearly entirely clean, near-perpetual energy* for gas-heating grids that won't require massive infrastructure changes? A brilliant short-term solution and indisputably a far lesser evil to digging gas out the ground where it's been locked away for millions of years. kzbin.info/www/bejne/n3jZcn6cj52aiac Vegan Anarcho-commie embarrassments to Vegans, driving their little one-person Tanks over their own feet, my feet, and the planet: "Vegan Dale Vince who founded a renewable energy company is Mussolini of the Animals traitorous neo-liberal shill enemy of of Climate Action for inventing Gas from Grass and not paying the canteen staff as much as scientists and engineers!"

[@pw.70]

I think the problem with new tech is that there's just so much of it about that you can never tell what's good and what's not. I follow a few similar channels as JHaT, and every one of them says a similar thing; you just can't tell. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to sound pessemistic, but it would be good if all the different companies, working on their own design, decided to come together and share their ideas a little more. Perhaps with that level of interaction, the issues would be resolved much sooner.

[@ThatGoat]

Massive profits. Battery twice as good? 4x the price!

[@haxi52]

All this research on charge times and energy density are nice. But price is the most impactful that keeps getting overlooked. We can't expect adoption of sustainable transport when so few can afford it.

[@PhxElecAuto]

But the very 1st lithium batteries were very expensive the ssme with PCs , cell phones and thumb drives. But after mass production and steady advances they are all low cost not. The same price to mass production will follow with solid state batteries.

[@todddammit4628]

Cost is about scale. If you can scale it, you can make it cheap. So as long as the design uses elements that are abundant and easy to source, and the manufacturing process can be ramped to very high output, it will be cheap over time.

[@haxi52]

@@todddammit4628 @Phoenix EAA. I understand economies of scale will help lower the price, but the price of Lithium has only increased a lot over the past few years, and this one requires a lot more than current. It may become cheaper, but I'm not holding my breath. Also my point was price should be the focus, its clearly not here.

[@rivalrepairs]

its always easy to make a prototype but it is often hard to mass produce something at a competive price.

[@fje1948]

Many Thanks!

[@reuse_or_die]

My view is we need to focus our resources on public transport. Love your videos. And much appreciation, thanks to patrons for supporting them. I can't afford to but would if I could❤️

[@mclovin1071]

Another dramatic title. Thanks for the video man. You always do a great job.

[@JustHaveaThink]

Thank you. I appreciate that!

[@ksairman]

Another well done, thank you. As for my thoughts on speed of change, we are really looking at a very, very fast change time, less than five years.

[@trueriver1950]

At first I read that as a fast chaRge time. Five years??? Derrrrr

[@kravond]

Promises and hype is a nice way to describe the last 10 years.

[@grindupBaker]

Immediately following yours is a sure-fire investment opportunity tailored for cynics such as yourself.

[@robblincoln2152]

If you look at capacity, recharge rate, energy density and cost, all four metrics have improved dramatically over the last 10 years. The likely hood is that continued refinement of lithium batteries will continue at a similar rate over the next 10 years. The question is, will any of the recent developments ever be able to leapfrog lithium in the marketplace. Your guess is as good as mine.

[@ben3989]

Battery tech has marched along swiftly and will continue too. Lithium batteries have become more energy dense and cheaper significantly.

[@-_James_-]

Goodenough/Braga announced their solid state glass battery breakthrough back in 2017. Time for a follow up on their progress?

[@deansmits006]

I can't remember the video, but another company napped a ton of the people working on that team, and there's an update video from.... Undecided, with Matt Ferrell I think

[@TheHorseshoePartyUK]

@@deansmits006 I'm no expert but I'm not optimistic that anything made of *glass* is the best idea for powering vehicles with. Just how sturdy would it be? Could it survive little bumps, climbing the kerb, slightly bumping concrete bollards, the constant vibrations of less than perfectly smooth roads etc? If so, yeah why not I guess?

[@bigendianian]

Haha, thanks for the shout out! I was startled to hear my name :)

[@CaedenV]

For the Algo! As always, good stuff!

[@peterkotara]

I love your work, and when I can afford to, I shall support you.

[@My-Nickel]

Thank you sir!

[@JustHaveaThink]

You are welcome!

[@hogfry]

Nuclear diamond batteries have ALOT of potential to be a game changer. Especially if they are able to hold a charge for a halflife... at least on paper.

[@ddeboy002]

It's still a decade away in reality for practical use. My best friend is an engineer working on this tech. They are making headway but it's still a long ways away.

[@nedspeak]

Always great information! I remember reading articles about John Goodenough and his solid state battery. Where would one look to find where his research went? It sounded like he discovered a way to produce them several years ago!!??

[@andycordy5190]

Loved the video morphs from what looked like hand made crayon drawings. Very elegant. Regarding prospects for the low mass, high energy density battery, elephant in the room is the competitive nature of these developments. It's all about cornering a market and nothing to do with optimization for the sake of the planet. The few swoppable battery systems I've seen, suggestive of a universal power source that could potentially remove the key problem of charging times, and to my mind a much more natural provision of power in daily life, are so sidelined as to be ignored altogether (I am very excited by the use to which battery swopping is put to use in some Far Eastern Tuktuk operations). The collaboration between Toyota and Panasonic looks like bringing their system (which I assume is fixed battery) to market quite soon and this will certainly be a big step. Congratulation on you continued success.

[@WayneTheBoatGuy]

Neat stuff!

[@ernstlemm9379]

Great to watch your nice presented videos. As a tech oriënterend person, I've learned not to forget strategic problems for the improvement cycles. Large investments in factories will lead to a force of delaying other, better products.

[@nickwilliams911]

Great video

[@JustHaveaThink]

Thanks Nick.

[@samspencer7765]

Honestly I think the great thing is if you take a medium energy density albeit heavy, cheap today technology like lithium iron phosphate, they can do 10 years of daily charge cycles right now for a pretty low price, and are very stable. Get something like that in the new EV's and static batteries we use right now and they'll last us at least into the 2030s when commercial scale solid state is coming online. We needn't make perfect the enemy of the good. Keep aviation using kerosene, ships convert from bunker fuel to LNG and focus on electrifying ground transport which is the easiest through the 2020s and then tackle the tougher challenges like aviation in the 2030s.

[@carlbrenninkmeijer8925]

Thank you for your research !!! In my opinion you showed us the start of a burst of new batteries. Nothing can stop this progress that has so many different approaches. Costs of complex production will drop because of automation and the benefit if durability I am very hopeful....

[@JustHaveaThink]

Thanks Carl.

[@Chris_Ford]

in the 40 yrs on this planet things have only got more expensive not cheaper. No mobile phone cost 600/700 pounds 20 yrs ago, and a games console back then cost 300 pounds now they cost more than twice that. This tech will give them more reason to charge more for their product plain and simple.

[@ronkirk5099]

The average Li-ion battery pack for an EV is about 1000 lbs so a 40% weight savings with solid state battery packs could have some beneficial knock-on effects of reduced vehicle chassis and suspension weight. Even the drive train could be a little lighter as there would be less mass to accelerate.

[@WanderingExistence]

EVs/ hybrids also have faster tire wear b/c of weight

[@ramblerandy2397]

I can't be the only one who read, just a few years back, a leading researcher into battery chemistry stating that development was still very much in its infancy. They were at the stage of "let's try this..." Now, to a battery chemist, that's going to be far more accurate and knowledgeable than to most of us, but we can kind of see how far along the development track they'd got. And big strides had already been made. Clearly, major improvements will come and they won't take forever, either.

[@patreekotime4578]

Everything Ive read recently with any credibility sounds very much in early stages as well. There are enormous hurdles in moving from lab scale to high production and its a smart bet that most of the companies working on it wont make it, or wont do so profitably.

[@TS-zp7pe]

Love this channel! Have you got anything related to Rainwater catchment system? I think it would be a great topic to discuss as groundwater depletion has vastly increased in hot regions. For example, some Gulf states are promoting their agricultural sectors for food security, but water seems to always be an issue.

[@drabbit61]

If this was 10-15 years ago I would've blamed big oil. Love ur stuff - unbaised, well researched, human

[@martincotterill823]

Great video, Dave, yet again. I share your scepticism, but it is all moving in the right direction. There's a lot of money to be made and that will continue to drive innovation.

[@JustHaveaThink]

Cheers Martin

[@takuan650]

Yeah, that's what I thought 40 years ago too.

[@scratchy996]

I think the Western governments should force all those startups to work together like in ww2. At this point these batteries are a more than just a gimmick, but a strategic necessity.

[@Kevin_Street]

Thanks for the new video! Solid state batteries could be very exciting, especially if they don't use a lot of lithium. I'm sure the NASA battery performs like they say it does, but it's probably not cheap, since government research is meant to discover new ways of doing things and not make a profit. They're supposed to explore new paths that profit-seeking corporations wouldn't even consider. But eventually they'll license the technology to corporations who will try to find ways to bring down the cost. Probably not by 2030 though. The most interesting part of your video is the rundown of all the car companies that are developing their own solid state batteries. There's so many different ideas out there! It's exciting to see all the different approaches to the same problem. Cost may be an issue, but it looks like solid state batteries are on the verge of becoming a big thing, and quite soon.

[@nikokapanen82]

It would be interesting to know what is the core problem with solid-state batteries that they cannot overcome in the first place. Then we could estimate how long will it take or will it take at all for them to become commercially viable. Because if the problem is similar to hydrogen cells where you are forced to use extremely rare metals like platinum for them to work properly, then it may be that solid-state won't ever come to market. I heard that solid-state batteries are already working but only those ones where silver is used, another very rare metal.

[@thomgizziz]

Silver isn't all that rare...

[@nikokapanen82]

@@thomgizziz If we want to replace the entire automobile industry from internal combustion engines to electric and silver-based solid-state batteries would be the thing, then the 500 000 tons of silver that are in reserves may be far from enough.

[@jasenanderson8534]

Love your work. I agree, it'll be a while for this to filter through to the real world domestic use, and the cost might be initially prohibitive. I really do hope they do it though, and the sooner the better in my opinion. I'm banking on it going into small devices first. Imagine not having to throw out your mobile phone after only a few years and it lasting days at decent charge.

[@tomhanson1701]

Just for future reference, Solidpower is based in Louisville Colorado but the name of the small city (just outside Boulder, where the University of Colorado and founders have worked) is pronounced “Lewis ville “ not Louee-ville. Thanks for the awesome videos

[@autohmae]

Wikipedia claims otherwise, it says: LOO-ee-vil

[@jyvben1520]

so Louis the 14th, King of France, is Lewis the 14th, strange ... and ville is a French word for city/town.

[@Mattgriff52]

Good ‘ole Lewis XIV, of France!

[@Anony_Mouse_V]

In the english speking world it's pronounced "Louee-ville"

[@ps.2]

@@autohmae "The City of Louisville (/ˈluːɪsvɪl/) is a home rule municipality located in southeastern Boulder County, Colorado, United States." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisville,_Colorado

[@manofsan]

*Will solid state batteries perform better in very cold weather? I'd really like to know.*

[@Anony_Mouse_V]

Links are in the video description box ..

[@TheGeeoff]

Thanks for being realistic about this! It would be great if the costs come down, but we're not there yet.

[@kirankumarsukumar]

Solid state batteries deserve three nobel prize. One in physics and another in chemistry and peace prize for saving the world.

[@mikafiltenborg2291]

SSB 🔋🔋🔋will be mass-produced cheap in year..... 2077 😄

[@peterthomas144]

It’s horses for courses. Weight vs cost will probably not provide an economic argument for road vehicles but will be utilised effectively in aviation. Charging speeds is one area that will need to be addressed for some time whilst durability and efficiency will be paramount in grid storage applications. The future looks bright for a diverse range of energy storage options and huge gains are likely to be made in all of the niche applications of renewable power capabilities

[@christopherbeddoe406]

There are multiple technologies that are on the cusp. Some are pushing 3-5x the energy density with little degradation. I think they have manufacturability and consistency/yield issues to work out. If they hit 5x improvement you'll see electric conversions on GA aircraft becoming the new rage.

[@antonnym214]

So far, solid state electrolyte layers have been ceramic or glass. There are few things more brittle. Put that in a car, and the normal flexing from going down the road will shatter the insides of those batteries before it gets to its first charging station.

[@agoogler1887]

As usual u present a very thought based program 🤓 really enjoy it T U

[@pipo5839]

We all grow weary of battery hype. A significant boost in energy density for Sodium-ion batteries is more likely to be the next "game changer".

[@mariushegli]

I have nothing to say really, but I appreciate your content, and wish to help with the yt-algorithms.

[@Nebulorum]

While I like the prospect I think we should kind of move beyond cars in general. A ebike will do most of what you need for a fraction of the cost in urban settings. The rest should be either mass transit or shared evehicles. And I cycle all weather without assistance.

[@scratchy996]

As a farmer, I'd like to see them make a battery standard. Like the AA or AAA batteries, but bigger. You should be able to swap the batteries for different applications. Instead of charging your car, tractor, harvester, you should charge the batteries, and use them in the vehicle you need. It will also drive down the cost of each vehicle, since you could buy them without batteries included. Making farming less reliable on fossil fuel, and world wide food prices at the whim of OPEC should be a national security issue.

[@feuby8480]

Honnetly I like the way you think but that's just not really possible. I live in QC. I agree on your public transportation thing, but in my town, there is no way you could cycle without any assistance except if you're really sportive. There are hills almost everywhere, and I can assure you, I tried. There is some cycle roads, but I often see people down their bike just because the road is way too high. And you know, in QC, cycling when it's -30C and there is snow everywhere is quite not fun.

[@PelicanNorth]

@@scratchy996 I like that idea. That's what lawn/garden equipment makers do: Swap one or two batteries between mower, trimmer, saw, etc. That system works great. On a farm, you would have the space and equipment to help swap out heavier battery packs that you would not be able to lift yourself. It seems likely that some heavy equipment manufactures are exploring this idea. Bonus - as batteries get better and cheaper, you would only have to upgrade those, not the entire machine.

[@nagualdesign]

I cycle but my 73-year-old mother isn't able to, and picking the kids up from school is prohibitively difficult using a bicycle, bus or train.

[@chromagraphphotoart]

That is the city-centric ideology for a demographic of young, fit, professionals. not at all suitable for areas like Cornwall where I live with a high rurality factor and a population demographic strongly weighted to the elderly

[@MichaelCollins-the-other-fella]

I would agree that developers are being delayed in commercializing solid state batteries but as a rule of thumb it take about 10 years for a battery technology to go from demonstration of viability to commercializations. Both Solid Power and Quantumscape are pretty close to in line with the 10 year window. But we as consumers are not very patient anymore.

[@thomjohnson604]

One has to consider that incumbent technology with incremental improvements is advancing in both cost and performance. Thus, the hurtle for SSBs is continually getting higher. As such I CATL’s projections ought to be taken very seriously. I assume their projection of 2030 game time for SSBs is based on incumbent improvements plateauing while market thirst for marked performance increases, providing the combo for SSB entry.

[@trueriver1950]

That's only true at current scales. Yes currently research is making Li based storage progressively cheaper as they perfect the details. The countervailing issue, still currently on the horizon, is that at some point we will have used all the accessible Li atoms, and still not powered all our cars let alone the grid storage and planes... Therefore price rises due to growth in demand and reduction in remaining supply will at some point outweigh the efficiency gains.

[@djhatton]

no mention of the dendrite growth problem. this is what is holding back the solid state cell

[@incognitotorpedo42]

There was literally an animation of dendrite formation in the video. It was pointed out that dendrite formation is a problem in conventional Li-ion cells, but not in SSBs.

[@grindupBaker]

I thought I noticed that the dendrite growth problem was the entire point of this video, but I admit to never actually listening to him because I'm mesmerized by his extreme polish.

[@kyriacostsangarides3751]

Thanks for a nice video. Do you know of any up-to-date table showing the various solid-state battery technologies, with their relevant properties (materials & costs, energy & power density - current and future projections, pros & cons, commercialisation timeline etc), the companies behind them and their partners/investors? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

[@robinholmes785]

We have seen how slow it is to introduce a new battery design and chemistry to volume production so i expect it will be an even slower transition to Solid Sate Battery's.

[@tristanschreiber5279]

What makes me hopeful is, that there is so much money, so manny bright people in independent teams working on those issues: the chance is high that at least one team will make it!

[@scratchy996]

I think because the money and talent are so spread out, nothing will come of it.

[@Vossst]

@@scratchy996 Either that or it maximizes the chance that someone will stumble across the answer, given such a broad-cast net.

[@E1Luch]

Cant really build on discoveries made by other people if they are locked away behind a patent, not if your goal is to make profit and not have to pay license fees.

[@scratchy996]

@@Vossst Nah, it only leads to duplicate spending, and less risk taking, due to cost. Remember how in ww2 the US made extremely fast technological progress because all companies worked together ? You have better results when you put all the bright minds in one room and give them all the funds they need. Germany on the other hand had multiple small groups working on the same thing, and many projects had to be abandoned because the progress was too slow. That's why now we get all these promising technologies, that lead to nowhere, because each startup wants to be the first to crack it, then they give up.

[@aryanvanderlouw]

We have been hearing about all these game changers, yet none have been seen in the wild.

[@trioofone8911]

Nice new intro roll thingy. 😆

[@stopscammingman]

Another very important video.

[@patusoro4781]

Thank-you for being realistic. A wold changing invention has been only 5-10 years away for the last 50 years. Let's plan on what we have, what's real and what works. In 5 years, we can reassess and adjust as needed.

[@youdonthavetoreadthispost.5850]

Are we there yet ? Too much hype to get attention. Breakthroughs must break barriers not just improve efficiencies. Solid State has promise but - are we there yet ? Not yet.

[@brushlessmotoring]

What I love about your channel is your pragmatism, you don't get sucked up into the hype cycle like a lot of other KZbinrs. My goal is promoting EV's you can actually buy - today - and one of the main concerns I have about the breathless enthusiasm for future tech that is decades away is that it gives folks an excuse to keep their current gasoline car while waiting for 'x' breakthrough. The Lithium Ion cells in EVs you can buy today were in the labs in the 1950's and '60s, in small volumes in the 1980's, larger volumes powering expensive laptops in the 1990's and then an eventual journey 20 years after that to premium EVs in the 2010's - we will finally see affordable EVs based on NCM or LiFePO4 (LFP) towards the middle or end of the 2020's - some 50 years after those lab batteries from the 70's. 50 years is about how long I think a radical breakthrough in batteries will take to get to mass production and meaningfully cheaper pricing than current ones. I'll get excited about solid state when it's already in my smartwatch, phone, laptop, power tools - until we see it take over those small appliance markets, it isn't coming for EV's anytime soon, but I could see flight being an initial use case, but how much are you going to pay for a ride in a sky taxi when the machine costs millions?

[@katzda]

Yeah we get quality news, not clickbait titles like "NASA created a battery that defies physics"

[@PeterPete]

why is it I get the feeling everyone dreams on this channel, it should be called 'Just have a dream'

[@rojavabashur6455]

We should not talk about "solid state batteries" but about "lithium-metal batteries", what you want is to replace the graphite in the battery and max out the lithium content, you can do that with a liquid electrolyte also. Northvolts daughter company Cuberg has created a lithium-metal battery with a liquid electrolyte instead of a solid and now going into industrialisation.

[@franklinblunt69]

How about regen & recover from losses or inefficiencies? Often thermal but transducing into the energy of motion, so a battery of sorts could be functional in energy storage system mentioned but solid-state & liquid or pasty cells possible that sense, recover, & recharge. Still always consider the power with matter energy provided over time, place purpose personal ...safely😁

[@MrCardeso]

As long as it's not cynical vaporware (Musk), I am for companies trying out as many solutions as possible (the more the better). Somebody will hit on something that works soon.

[@Unethical.Dodgson]

We'll get this to you in 2 years but this is something we can do TODAY! It would be financially insane to buy anything other than our product. we will be putting these on Mars! (I realize I have to point out that this is a musk parody.)

[@spijkerpoes]

oh yes and I do have one hope: when all the hubbub and excitement of innovation is over, and the tech isn't that sensational any more, I really do hope there will be one standard battery. One that can be put in a range of applications and does not have to be owned. Just pop in the 'gas' station, switch the battery and of you go in under 30 seconds.

[@FreebirthBoccara]

the entire point of this is that you wont have to replace the batterys. the batterys wont degrade as much over time. and will store more energy and be able to be charged faster.

[@luipaardprint]

@@FreebirthBoccara OP seems to imply a swappable battery system for cars, much the same as current powertools have.

[@incognitotorpedo42]

@@luipaardprint Yes, that's probably what OP meant. Unfortunately, battery swapping is stuck in the "gas station fillup" mode of thinking. It requires you to rent rather than own your battery, and it's very expensive and inefficient. I don't expect to ever see it in North America, although there is a Chinese EV maker (Nio, I think) that's doing it there.

[@michellelewis3063]

own nothing and be happy?

[@jebise1126]

how many km per day you do anyway?

[@air870]

As recent innovations are being showcased, the expected time-line could well be sooner than later.

[@ReasonablySkeptic]

I LOVE SSBatteries however, last i heard gasoline has a fuel density of around 30-40x that of most batteries. SO, if solid state batteries could hold 3x more power than current batteries *THAT'S AWSOME AND A GAME CHANGER, BUT* it's still 26-36X less efficient than gasoline of the same weight. This is important for aviation where weight is crucial and it's important when thinking of just replacing everything gasoline to electric. But it's still amazing and a _HUGE LEAP_ in the right direction.

[@antonhuman8446]

The constantly advancing inventiveness of mankind is something else.

[@RedSinter]

Well, I'd imagine Commercial Storage Banks if scale ability and cost are the only real issue the mass will in the beginning out strip small niche endeavors would be my thoughts. But regardless, however the sold state arrives, will be a boon. And especially if the Grid Infrastructure has been updated, repaired, or replaced. If not then it may take longer or take a small expensive form. As R and D has to be recouped before $ comes down and the fastest way is large scale, IMHO.

[@Yielar1]

Based on what I've read from an assortment of tech experts I'd say 2030 is a really solid figure for mainstream EV vehicles with 2026-2027 for bleeding edge higher-end luxury vehicles. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

[@gerthddyn]

I'm optimistic that we will see some form of solid state battery soon, but I don't think we'll get the drastically increased energy density any time soon.

[@stopscammingman]

Here's hoping.

[@jpdj2715]

Great video and well presented. Regarding the subject, and I understand the difference between messenger and message ;), I get the impression that the term "solid state battery" is rather fluid - not so solid. When I think of a solid state battery then I imagine something like a super capacitor where only electrons flow. With single atom thick carbon film supercaps may need very little weight but still need a lot of litres per kWh or MJ. In the meantime, the Volkswagen corp through a Chinese joint venture released a small car with a sodium-ion battery. That's 1st gen and second gen will have more kWh density with double the recycle life expectancy.

[@jonogrimmer6013]

So much of its success is down to cost and speed to market. Current technologies continue to improve and with the scale ramping up rapidly cost will be much less by the time solid state comes to market. Like a lot of things often the first to market will succeed over the best.

[@jeffarcher400]

Since we're talking acronyms I have an idea called FREE. Fast Replaceable Electrolyte Exchange. A large fuel tank of electrolyte could react with conventional lead plates or other materials depending on the chemistry. The tank could be quickly drained and refilled. It would take longer than a gas fill up and you can't go as far so it can't compete with lithium or gas in density. You can make your own electrolyte though. Anybody can start a business with some tanks and solar,wind or grid power. Lead batteries can be recycled easily compared to lithium. Some new design could use salt water or other electrolytes and plates less toxic than lead. This may not beat lithium in the short run but may work well in the long run after considering mining,refining and recycling. Some remote countries may choose a slower pace and energy independence or not have reliable fuel delivery. For household use a pool of charged juice can spread solar power all night and a cloudy day or two cheaper than expensive batteries that will need replacement someday. If you have a tank at your house you can be your own gas station too. A liquid electrolyte with large replaceable plates will be so much easier to repair and recycle then millions of little solid batteries in casings. Imagine getting the casings off, crushing,refining, remanufacturing each solid cell. Imagine the energy and technology needed to recycle lithium batteries. They've been recycling lead batteries for decades. FREE. Fast Replaceable Electrolyte Exchange.

[@rikimitchell916]

Consider doing a retrospective of Philo Farnsworth Re Fusor history and current developments

[@BobBob-kr5wr]

As long as their is a market demand for this technology it should continue to improve. I would just like to see the day where I can drive down the highway and all of the vehicles are electric.

[@minedminemind5656]

The problem exists in how they will factor into the design their "GREED". NOT whether it can be done. ONLY how the ones purchasing their product will be "SCREWED OVER" in the process. A good idea is ONLY best when they can factor in their GREED. Examples: 1. Russian light bulbs that never need to be changed. 2. Moon rover rolling over jagged rocks but never needing a tire to be changed. 3. Air freshener refills that can only be used in the last model & not the current one. So purchase of the new base unit is always required.

[@wwgg1139]

apart from power to weight ratio and charge/discharge improvements, what are the benefits in terms of the battery lifecycle and materials used?

[@Vossst]

Not having the pronounced dendrite issue means many more potential charge cycles & slower loss of efficiency. Different batteries are using different materials; one in this video has a graphene electrolyte and I don't think anyone is mass producing that stuff in relevant forms yet.

[@Embassy_of_Jupiter]

I'm pretty sure technology in general will progress much faster than most people think. I'm optimistic that some game changer battery will come out well before 2030. The growth in the computing industry and AI is crazy right now, we're at the brink of a computing revolution. And that tends to spill over into all other aspects of life. Independently from that, I see revolutionary technologies coming in many fields. As long as we let the free market resolve who is best, I don't see any issues. But if we start setting unrealistic deadlines, taxes and bans, etc, then I'm afraid technological and economical development will nosedive... Not that anyone is doing that or anything... -.-

[@Servant_of_Christ]

I believe it when I'm installing them on my sailing yacht.

[@scriptguru4669]

that 0 deg C seems problematic, I suppose they could route some heat from the motors back to the cells. For cold start plugging ICE cars in overnight in cold climates is already a thing so not a huge issue. I'm more interested when this ends up in powertools.

[@jackdbur]

Most people will charge their vehicle overnight anyway.

[@dmcarstensen]

Apparently the company, Amptricity, is taking pre-orders for their solid-state batteries for both commercial and residential use.

[@davesutherland1864]

You stated that all these technologies had one thing in common. They were a lot more expensive than conventional Li Ion batteries. There seemed to be one other thing they all had in common, they were all planning to start production on the scale to make cars in the mid 2020's, give or take a few years. While I don't think many cars will actually be produced, but if successful there will be enough production to demonstrate what a EV with a SSB can offer and give some incite to how close they really are to scale up to the necessary production volume to support EV production.

[@patreekotime4578]

Yeah... Im skeptical... 5 years away is just the new 30 years away. There are plenty of startup EV companies who have had 1-2 year time horizons for start of production for a decade now.

[@autohmae]

but why focus on EV when you can do mass production and make money now and get experience with mass production by selling into other markets ?

[@davesutherland1864]

@@autohmae That makes sense from prospective of a company bring SSB's to market. However, if their R&D is being funded by automobile manufactures, then then the investors want a car battery.

[@drewgoodman5970]

I've learned to reserve excitement about lab breakthroughs. However, in 2040-2050, thing's will be pretty sci-fi. Im imagining a 100-kwh battery that hangs on the wall of your garage like a poster and it's being charged with 30-kw of perovskite solar roof tiles.

[@leftcoaster67]

NASA has an aeronautical drive to have lightweight, fast to charge and improved capacity batteries. Which makes sense.

[@newscoulomb3705]

People seem to keep glossing over SolidEnergy Systems (now SES), which is backed by a number of automakers including Geely, GM, Hyundai, and KIA. They had a functioning lithium-metal battery cell in GM's hands for testing over 2 years ago, and they supplied 107 Ah cells to GM and Hyundai for automotive testing at the end of last year. They are also building a 1 GWH annual production capacity facility that is supposed to open in 2023. Based on what I've seen, SES seems to be at the head of the pack in terms of solid-state batteries, and at their current pace, their batteries are likely to make it into production EV models by mid decade.

[@danjw1]

Making something is different than making something at a high production rate. It takes building a supply chain to get these to high production rates. So, I think they maybe an additive technology to lithium batteries at some point, I don’t think they will supplant them any time in the next decade. I also wonder about the relative costs once we can recycle lithium batteries to fill most of our needs.

[@mahirbalayev5835]

Hi. I wonder if you could explain zambonies element/battery. And if their any possibility to build such battery with nanoporus materials?