Solving 1.6HDi smoke during cold startup

[@moremolecules]

While this works pretty well to almost eliminate the cold startup smoke, it is only temporary. The oily vapours will build up again and it will smoke as before. This was only a test to see if it was valve stem seals or simple oily condensation. Oil catch can should help with this, but this test was without an oil catch can, even though it is in the video. I filmed the beginning after some time.

[@kaisblb7310]

Hi I cleaned a bit the camshaft sensor aswel But if u try to unplug the egr valve connector before u startit in the morning am sure it wont do it

[@emremmuslu]

Hi friend. In my opinion this smoke is from valve seals. 👌

[@kaisblb7310]

@@emremmuslu yeah mate the most

[@anglingpassion5039]

I'm glad you still got this car for this engine very good engine the 1.6HDI had mine almost 3 years now still going strong. I just service it once a year untill the service light comes on.

[@moremolecules]

I still have it yes. I service it a bit sooner than the service light, but still going strong. I will probably hang onto it until electric cars become a bit cheaper.

[@anglingpassion5039]

@@moremolecules and you are exactly right there mate. Electric cars are way to expensive and I'm on the verg in weather they be as reliable or not and learning what to fix on them when they go wrong. Edit: also we will have no choice in the near future but to have them due to emission zone charges and tax rise as such. The other down pour is manual cars will likely be a thing of the past as all the electric cars I know are all automatic

[@moremolecules]

@@anglingpassion5039 Yes, absolutely right and the overall problem are the batteries for second hand cars, how much will it cost to replace. Designed obsolescence works really well with EVs.

[@thierryr2721]

Heyy , i love what you do , and i will do it to my intercooler , a lot of oil leak and my neighbors aren't happy with the cold start ... :) keep up the good job and thank you again for teaching us

[@moremolecules]

Unfortunately, this cleaning will be only temporary, until more oily vapor gets into the intercooler. I only did it to test if it is not the valve stem seals.

[@bjornbose9702]

Like your videos a lot! Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[@dieseltips]

Excellent work bro as always. Same happens to my 307sw. I've never cleaned the intercooler and the pcv valve is not working right, even though the membrane is ok, so oil fumes goes to the turbo and get burnt. Thanks for the video.

[@moremolecules]

Thank you, but the cleaning of the intercooler is only temporary solution, until the oily bits get to the intercooler again. It was only a test to check if it is not indeed the valve stem seals.

[@19jacobob93]

My 2.0 HDi farm pig also does this and I like it haha when I start to see white smoke after start up I know winter is coming 😅

[@moremolecules]

I suspect that the valve stem seals are getting harder and slipping a bit of oil in the chamber, when the weather is relatively warm, this completely disappears and probably with warmer weather they get a little bit softer. I should probably try some of these oil rubber softeners in the oil, as taking it all off is quite a hassle.

[@antonypaul6291]

Does your Diesel have a throttle body? if not, it might not be generating vacuum in intake manifold. From my understanding, ONLY in a petrol/gasoline car, you have vacuum building in intake manifold when engine is running with throttle closed. ie, prolonged idle or better still, down hill where rpd is over idle with throttle closed. If its a bad valve stem guide, the vacuum in manifold sucks oil from crankcase. In diesel, no vacuum. I have 1.5 Renault dci smoking blue on cold start, to a much larger extend.

[@moremolecules]

Many thanks for your comment, it does not have a throttle body per se, but an EGR throttle body, not quite the same. If it was the valve stem guides then it should also puff blue smoke going downhill in gear, but mine does not.

[@frednetherlands887]

Great result!

[@olenwoln5584]

I guess the early morning smoke is a result of a glowplug malfunction. At least one cylindre isn't heated up , so the fuel doesn't burn properly. I've got this smoke problem too. And a glowplug error code is shown in the ECU.

[@moremolecules]

Hi Olen, the glowplugs in the 1.6HDi do not operate and not needed if temperature of antifreeze is anything >3C. They are only needed in cold weather and then it has to be

[@bngh12ful]

This engine can operate without glow plugs with no issue, unplug relay and you will see no difference

[@razvansandu7123]

Hey, I did a test, i wire the glow plugs outside the engine, besides the one that are screwd in the engine, and with an outside temperature of 15 celsius they stil light up and function until the coolant temperature reach 60 celsius, i have the tdci version, so maybe its just on ford management​@@moremolecules

[@thomasadmiral3401]

@@bngh12ful correct, direct injection, common rail system, there are glow plugs only to protect the environment

[@davidwarren4569]

A good check for valve stem seal leakage is find a long steep hill and go down in gear with foot off the accelerator. At the bottom, hit the accelerator, and because you have had a low pressure situation you will have sucked oil into the combustion chambers through the valve stems. If you see smoke in the rear vision mirror there is good chance your valve stems/ seals are worn.

[@moremolecules]

Hi David, yes, that is correct. I do not have any blue smoke in the steep hill situation and that is why it is only oil condensation and not valve stem seals.

[@thomasadmiral3401]

@@moremolecules I don't understand this, what causes a vacuum with the engine brake, there is no butterfly valve in a diesel, if there is one, it only closes when stopping the car, right?

[@kaisblb7310]

Thnx for the video Been looking for this problem fix for ages only few video on utube but this is different and works Thnk u

[@moremolecules]

Hi Kais, same here, this bothered me for quite awhile and eventhough it works it is only temporary. Oily condensation will build up again and blow on cold startup. I only did it to see if it is indeed the valve stem seals (nightmare to do) or just condensation.

[@kaisblb7310]

Hi I didn’t wana touch the valves But i also cleaned the egr valve And the metal tube on top left of the engine i only unscrewed the twoo screws and i was shoked how blocked it was with dirt i clean it a bit and now smoke is gone

[@philska8er]

Hey great work, this problem seems to be everywhere with loads of people on the forums with DV6’s… me included. Same problem, I can leave it 3 hours or 12 hours and on first start, small misfire and blue smoke. Many say injectors dripping diesel… would that cause blue smoke? Driving me mad it is 😬 did you do the stem seals yet?

[@moremolecules]

Good quetion, I have an idea and it is not the valve stem seals, but will try to do something about it and film it in the next few weeks.

[@philska8er]

@@moremolecules yes I too can’t believe it’s stem seals. None of the other typical symptoms 🤔 it’s a head scratcher that’s for sure. Well good luck and I’ll be following and watching for the video 👍👍

[@pencilme1n]

I had the same issue and it would also smoke if left to idle for more than a minute or two especially afterwards. I changed the egr valve. That fixed it, but you can also just clean it or fit a blanking plate

[@moremolecules]

I have cleaned my EGR valve so many times and there is no effect.

[@eolemultipales]

thank you very much

[@alphajagtuning]

Did you remove the 2nd catch can ?

[@moremolecules]

I did remove it, but it was because I was due MOT or annual check and had to remove everything. Then I reinstated the one oil catch can and have not put the second. No particular reason, just there are other things to do. The second one is somewhat not particularly put in a convenient place and I might have to think where to put it.

[@mwahid2952]

I would say try a injectors leak off test and manifold seals also.

[@moremolecules]

Yes, I did that before (kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZu5dXupq7uBqs0) and one injector is a bit on the blocked side of things. I had a go with an injector cleaner as well (kzbin.info/www/bejne/eamte6eGdtd3b7s) and even though a vibration at ~1,500rpm disappeared, the smoke is still there. Granted, the injector cleaner did not fully clean them, but the smoke did not change that much.

[@cuneytsarrafoglu1935]

I solve this problem with ecu mapping and abort the egr valve.

[@moremolecules]

Yeah, I will double check if I block the EGR valve if this solves it as well.

[@cuneytsarrafoglu1935]

@@moremolecules sometimes smelling bad but there is no smoke

[@bngh12ful]

Finally someone with right solution, I mentioned this 2 years ago on previous vid but more molecules trust his instincts more than facts.

[@cuneytsarrafoglu1935]

@@bngh12ful thanks bro

[@tadaskarpavicius]

My focus has blocked egr and removed dpf. Still has this puff of smoke on a cold start. So egr has nothing to do with it

[@MrVasylyca20]

Hi! Same here. At cold start I have blueish smoke.Could be also injectors because sometimes a have rough idle early in the morning.I have changed the turbo but the problem is still the same.Could be valve steam seal? In drive I don't see any type of smoke, maybe is not much as it should be, but if my valve steam seals would be broken I think i would see some puff off smoke.Some ideeas?

[@moremolecules]

It could be valve stem seals of course. Nevertheless, anytime I have cleaning the intercooler the blue smoke does not exist. This really suggest that oil mist from the crankcase is going to the intercooler or a tiny amount of oil is passed from the turbo. Some day I will do the valve stem seals and will let you know if that was the case at the end of the day.

[@MrVasylyca20]

@@moremolecules Does exist any method to verify If the Valve Steam Seals are broken?

[@moremolecules]

@@MrVasylyca20 Good question, but not entirely easy to answer. The best way would be to find a down hill, put it in gear and go down. The valves would be shut in that case and supposedly oil will pool on top and it should be prevented by the stem seals. Once at the bottom of the hill you give it gas and if it smokes blue, it is valve stem seals. Similarly, you stay at trafic lights and on the green light if there is a puff of blue it is likely valve stem seals, but I think the hill is the most accurate.

[@nikolaservis]

Overnight some air come in inlet fuel lines...I fix few of them with same problem,put vaccumeter and look when shut off and look in morning,sometimes boobls you can see

[@philska8er]

@@nikolaserviswhere does the air leak in in your experience??

[@gabrielalonzo1211]

Hey man great video. I have a 2007 C4 hdi -get some smoke and it goes away until it heats up a little bit as you said it happens over night as engine cools down 😮.

[@moremolecules]

Same thing as me. The cleaning pf the intercooler helps, but it is a temporary solution. I think that most likely there is a bit more blow-by as the engine gets older and on startup just a bit more blow-by and the turbo lets a bit of oil through the seals.

[@nenadbuki]

I had blue smoke when the engine was cold and I solved it when I blocked the eger valve with a plate

[@richardoloot1295]

did oil catch can solve completely the smoke?

[@moremolecules]

Not really. I suspect that the oil catch can is not that efficient overall, so oil passes through to the intercooler. It seems a bit better with the oil catch can though.

[@lomaxbozo]

Come on ...tell us what was really the cause?

[@moremolecules]

Haha, well if I knew the definitive reaosn, I would have done a video. Yes, cleaning the intercooler really stops the smoke, but then in a few days it comes back. It could be valve stem seals, but not too sure.

[@salentinasalentino9634]

Bravo

[@bikeman123]

So now you've identified that the problem is oil condensation in the intercooler, how do you fix it? Cleaning the intercooler daily is not really a solution.

[@moremolecules]

Ha, good question! There are two options, one is an oil catch can and the other oil drain valve on the intercooler. Oil catch can seems to help and I have tried that, but they are not 100% efficient, probably way less than everyone thinks. The drain plug is something that I am thinking about testing, but have not yet had the time to test.

[@vasilvlasov5863]

@@moremolecules hello, i really enjoy your channel and i have done some work on my 1.6 hdi 90hp myself being inspired from your videos. I do have exactly the same problem- blue smoke on a cold start. What do you think is the root cause of the problem as there was no issue 10,000 miles ago. Could it be a worn turbo which leaves oil residue in the intercooler , or piston rings which are not sealed enough or perhaps any other suggestions? I do have a lot of evaporation coming out from the crankcase breather, is this normal? I would really appreciate your input.

[@moremolecules]

@@vasilvlasov5863 Thank you for the good words and yes I have helped at least one person. I do not really have an answer. I still do not think it is the valve stem seals, although it could be. At least on mine it is nt turbo-related, I changed the turbo cartridge, but still get cold-blue smoke. What I noticed and I am not too sure how to interpret. I drive fewer km/miles now. Working from home and all. If I keep the car a bit longer not driven, say 5 days, there is no smoke. But if I start it on the next day there is smoke. As I sai, not too sure how to interpret. Definitely not rings, as that is always the same, definitely not turbo, I have replaced that and it will smoke despite the time left not driven. I suspect it is oil through the intercooler, but it may well be valve stem seals. Difficult to say. Valve stem seals are difficult to replace, hence why I have not done it yet with a video.

[@NitroVids]

I would test all the glow plugs.

[@moremolecules]

I have tested and replaced all of them. Glow plugs in the 1.6HDi are not needed at all unless temperature

[@Willhelmet6845]

I have this exact problem with mine! Very rough start also 95% of the time, is fine once engine is warm. It had problems starting the other day, starter motor was ticking over fine. Took a few attempts! Could it be related?

[@moremolecules]

It could be, difficult to say. Battery health and condition of starter motor would be key, but if the starter motor is ticking fine, it could be battery. Worse case scenario could also be air in the fuel lines.

[@richardoloot1295]

by the way on my third turbo ive done only 250 miles and already a bit of play in the spindle, not sure if this is normal or ...i left the fine mesh filter out this time (lower banjo bolt) as it completely clogged up and ruined my second turbo after only 1300 miles. I had fully flushed the engine removed sump ect ect...

[@moremolecules]

Ouch. There is something not quite right if you are on your 3rd turbo. Here is how the normal should look like: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y36vZWyqjp6Dnc0 Generally speaking, when the turbo is replaced, then you run the car for ~300miles and then drop the oil and also clean the banjo filter. Blocked banjo filter will only lead to another turbo. Yes, removing the filter might be better in your engine, but slightly bigger piece might fail the turbo again. Do a few oil changes, say every 300 miles 3 times. that should remove all the sludge. Check if you injectors are not leaking by any chance: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oaWZq313g7GUj7M

[@lomaxbozo]

Did you fix it ?

[@moremolecules]

As I replied earlier, it does fix it for a short period of time, but then it comes back again. It could well be valve stem seals, but I would have expected that there will be other symptoms, puffs on downhills, trafic lights, etc.

[@mateomiklavcic5431]

@@moremolecules My brother changed valve steam seals and it doesn't make a difference

[@moremolecules]

@@mateomiklavcic5431 Ha, thank you very much indeed Mateo for this comment. I wondered if it is the valve stem seals, but have not done them yet.

[@exampLeBA]

Same thing happening to me but my car mechanic says that that is "ok" and it doesn't make any damage to the engine so I will leave it as it is.

[@moremolecules]

Well, yes, I have left it as it is. It has not damaged anything and I have heard from other people that it has been doing this for ~100,000 miles.

[@dmdaithim]

I'll be theres a p1351 fault logged for failed glow plugs.

[@moremolecules]

There is not a code for the glow plugs and I replaced them not so long ago. In any case the glow plugs in these engines do not operate unless the temperature is really low, as in

[@dmdaithim]

@@moremolecules glow plugs are used for pre and post combustion reasons also to keep emissions in check. Not just for easy starting.

[@moremolecules]

@@dmdaithim In general I agree that glow plugs help keep emissions in check. On these engines they do not operate at all unless temperature is rather low.

[@dmdaithim]

@@moremolecules They do work. Just because the glow light isint on doesnt mean the glow plugs arent in operation on the dv6.

[@moremolecules]

@@dmdaithim I agree that the light is just a light controlled by the BSI, so it does not need to be illuminated. The post startup operation of the glow plugs in cold temperature is of course not illuminated in terms of the light. Nevertheless, AFAIK and have not ever read anything different, the glow plugs in the DV6 are not in operation unless coolant < 3C.

[@محمدمحمدالمحمد-د1م]

I did a bit well, but a bit of a problem remained.)

[@moremolecules]

As I said at the end of the video, there is still some oily condensation in the turbo pipe and the doser or EGR throttle body as well. Had I cleaned all these as well, there would have been no smoke. This was mainly a test to see if this is due to valve stem seals or simple condensation.

[@oloyang431]

Guys, I need some help. One of my injectors has a flow correction value of -6 and needs to be replaced. I read somewhere that injectors are classified into A, B, C, D and they seem to represent different flow volume. I just can't find which ones I have. It's a 1.6 HDI, 80kw, 109hp Peugeot 207, produced in 2008. I checked the codes in diagbox and they seem to be correct. One thing I noticed is that all injectors have C.620026 code on them. Does this mean it belongs to C class? I have a very rough idle on cold startup followed by a really bad smell and black smoke for a couple of seconds and then whitish smoke for a longer period of time. After a couple of minutes when the engine gets heated the rough idle disappears and the car runs fine. I should also mention I had my dpf removed last year. Any help would be appreciated! Also, thanks for all the videos, I've been watching them for a couple of years and they are pure gold!

[@moremolecules]

Many than ks for the good words Dolo. Yeah, -6 is way too much correction. Acceptable one anything between -1 and +1. Did you hook it up to a leak-off test kit by any chance? It might help to see in addition to the -6 correction values. As far as I know, there should not be A,B,C and D injectors as you need to code any new ones with Diagbox/PP2000. The ECU takes the code and works from that the specs of the injector. I have not heard about these classes of inejctors, but might be wrong about that. I suppose you do not want to chuck in some injector cleaner such as Wynn's. This might be working on doing something with cleaning, say one bottle in 30L of fuel. I am experimenting at the moment with it and will post results on the cleaning, but somehow it has cleared the vibrations of startup with mine, so there could be something, but I will follow with proper test with the leak-off thingy.

[@oloyang431]

@@moremolecules Getting my hands on one of those kits would be too complicated as they don't sell them in my country. I think I have it figured out. I googled some of the numbers found on injectors and 0445110297 seems to be the part number that matches my injectors. I'm aware of the coding procedure. There also seems to be an ECU learning procedure which consists of two stages and involves driving the car in different regimes while the ECU does its thing. I don't know for sure as I read it in couple of forums but should test it soon once I get a new injector.

[@moremolecules]

@@oloyang431 Try perhaps e-bay, but if you do not have access to it then it is difficult. If the numbers of the new injector are a match then it should not be a problem when coding them again.

[@alkis5307]

guys I have an audi a3 1.6 TDI 90hp and when i start it up there is a black smoke coming out and then it stops. Anone knows anything?

[@moremolecules]

I am not familiar with the 1.6 TDI, but black smoke in a diesel means over-fueling or little air. Do you know if the TDI has fixed geometry turbo or the VNT? It could be that the vanes (if it is VNT turbo) are a little bit stuck at the beginning or it is slow to build vacuum if the vanes are vacuum controlled.

[@alkis5307]

@@moremolecules It has a VGT. Mechanic said that there is nothing to worry about because it is just unburnt fuel on the startup

[@moremolecules]

@@alkis5307 Yes, I completely agree with the mechanic. It is just over-fueling on startup or restriction of air, either way if it is gone after the initial one there is not something to worry about. All diesels will smoke a bit black on startup. It is the variable geometry turbo, so it could be that if it is vacuum controlled there is a slight lag in building this up and air is slightly restricted.

[@alkis5307]

@@moremolecules yeah when I start the engine it smokes for 1 second and then it’s gone. There is no black smoke even if I rev it at high load.

[@moremolecules]

@@alkis5307 Yeah, nothing to worry about. Blue is a bit more of a concern.

[@Unknown-jl7mg]

Have look at oilforums, it seems tir oils (hdeo) are popular for making engine internals clean. Total rubia tir9900fe 5w30 is adblue,fap safe. Shell rotella r6 lme... I have petrol, but I will try it next interval.

[@tristantopambudi3186]

Black smoke more like dirty egr valve more than intercooler

[@moremolecules]

As I have said in the video, it is not black smoke, but blue-ish smoke, which indicates oil.

[@philgriffiths8199]

Still smokes

[@moremolecules]

Yes, it is not a solution, eventually starts to smoke again. I have a proper solution, but yet to test it and film it

[@lyubobg]

Thank you for the video! I have hdi too, but it emits black smoke.. Injectors are tested and ok, changed fuel and air filter, new turbo....fuel consumption is also fine. Do you have any ideas what could be wrong? I guess it won't be the intercooler again. It happens on both cold and warm start Here is my video kzbin.info/www/bejne/f4GUpaWMr66nj7csi=pmNWRpHXDtP924Jd

[@moremolecules]

There is too much fuel and little air, hence the black smoke. If there are no restrictions anywhere along the air intake, most likely the fuel injectors are over-fuelling. You may need to look at the correction values for each injector. Also, just for a test if I were you I would just unplug the MAF sensor and start/drive it like that and see if it makes a differences.

[@lyubobg]

Yes, it is clearly overfuelling in the question is why. I already did that trick with the map sensor, also with the temperature sensor without any difference. The injectors were tested in a lab and are fine. I even replaced them for a test again with no difference. The turbo is new (old one same issue). EGR was replaced and the throttle body was cleaned. I drove the car on high rpms on a high ways, again no difference. I had troubles to connect two times lexia but I will try now with Delphi to see what's going on with the injectors, thanks.

[@lyubobg]

The smoke is finally fixed by editing fuel map injected quantity Here is the result- kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJjGqWCfitWKetkfeature=shared