Some of the Biggest CPUs ever made - IBM Power5 - 2/3

[@dragunzonline]

Designing and verifying POWER CPUs at IBM myself makes this video very special to watch. Thank you Roman!

[@accesser]

That must have been great to work on

[@CUAUHTEMOCVEGATORRES]

how can you mesure their performance?? are those things capable to compute tflops? im so curious, cuz i cant find info on the web.

[@justinoff1]

Which facility? Austin?

[@vladmihai306]

Formal verification or coverage driven verification?

[@Intelwinsbigly]

WHY U NO DO CONSUMER ELECTRONICS NO MORE?!>?!>1!?? WOULD HAPPILY PAY $$$$ FOR NEW IBM PC!

[@elly3713]

I used to be an IBM employee until november last year. Maybe you'll find this interesting. 1. First board you showed was most likely removed from IBM pSeries 520 or 570. 2. Replace-able VRMs are still standard on POWER systems. 3. Power 7 systems (P770) are still in use, despite being 11 years old. They're slowly being phased out and replaced by Power 8, because VRMs are failing and it's hard to get a replacement. 4. Most of those systems are running IBM AIX (proprietary UNIX, quite similar to BSD). 5. Ceramic MCM (Multi-Chip Module) you've showed was most likely removed from IBM System Z10. Z10 used Power5+, so it would match.

[@niewazneniewazne1890]

3. What's like the common use cases of these(running for 10 years+, I do get that it is a highly reliable platform with long term vendor support, which can be an argument onto itself); And generally what do those CPUs(and their ISA) bring in to the table? Like MIPS's assembly+calling conventions seems fairly simple. I kinda get what SPARC is about with it's dedicated SQL parsing hardware module/instructions and 4-8 hardware threads processing database+network requests; But it is hard to judge performance, where avx2-like instructions need to be(for the most part) handcrafted assembly(with maybe some languages focusing on features+syntax that allows easier parsing+utilization by the compiler). I did heard POWER has open firmware. But beyond that what makes those cpus special?

[@jaimeduncan6167]

Did you really work for IBM? The MCM is clearly from a Power5.

[@chads5117]

Greatly appreciate the count down timer on your ad spot 👍🏼

[@GeckonCZ]

6:35 That package is called CCGA - Ceramic Column Grid Array - a surface mount technology developed by IBM and relatively common in their older high-end gear. As with everything, it has its advantages and disadvantages. It has (or at least had) better reliability than the more common BGA. But it's also more expensive...

[@Cypeq]

I used to work on those machines as a AS400 developer, so cool to see how one looks inside disassembled.

[@deweycox]

I used to work as system engineer for IBM Power Systems dealing with AIX and RHEL, seeing this video definitely brings back memories :)

[@jesperlammert6634]

I work with servers everyday, just doing refurb of all kinds of stuff. It makes me able to be hands on even with this stuff. Only a few days before you put up the first video I actually threw away 2 of these servers. I think I still have the QCM modules. If you'd like to start them up there are various things you can do using the serial port, just need to use putty on another machine and you'll be able to get output just turning the server on. The error code you got in part 1 can be looked up and it does describe why the system isn't starting. While I have a personal interest in these machines doesn't mean I have all the time in the world at work, so I never got to disassemble it like you are doing, but I always start all servers and poke around whenever I'm able. I did disassemble some newer power servers though, you can even get them in the IBM flex chassis as a 2-wide compute node I believe they are called. The CPU's there are in a socket and can be changed. There isn't any thermal compund though, it's like a sheet of thin metal with bumps. Could be interesting for another series of weird stuff you don't see as a consumer. In general the whole blade idea is unknown to many people, and it's interesting to see how IBM cramps down 2 CPU's with 8 DIMM slots for each into a such a small formfactor, where even the big CPU's are supporting on their bladecenter H or flex system. HP's C7000 or C3000 are also interesting if not seen before.

[@HiltonHeslop]

This is awesome, seeing old server hardware makes you realize how far desktops are behind

[@shinokami007]

it's not really far behind, it's more of another scale

[@movax20h]

@@justinoff1 Depends what tasks we are talking about. Power 10 is great if you need 10TB of memory, and gazillion of cores ( I think you can have 32 cpus in a single system in a rack, with few dozen TBs of memory). Also Power 10 has various accelerators for cryptography, and decimal arithmetic, which are very popular in finance industry. Otherwise, the current AMD and Intel top of the line CPUs, will do just fine for many tasks, and often be actually faster. You do not buy the Power or z system for its speed, but rather a scalability, reliability in every components and services. Sometimes IBM systems are leading the industry, but at a great price premium (10x often) to deliver it early. In few years it will be obsolete.

[@carl8790]

@@movax20h they do care about speed, it's just a different type of speed. Like you said, to do decimal fp computation for millions of transactions in millisecs. As far as I'm aware, IBM is in its own league when it comes to servicing the finance industry, but it seems like Nvidia is looking to challenge that lol.

[@P2PC]

Oh man, Power5 CPUs really are a thing of beauty. Tonnes of people keep claiming AMD made the first MCM CPUs, they need to see this.

[@fabiokelm]

The engineering in this board is INSANE! Also, I would really like to see a video detailing the structure of this package, I wonder if they made all the vias and traces in the ceramic or it's just a coating. And damn, now I want one of these IBM "ceramic package" for me too!

[@hoppyrabbit1833]

Wonderful nostalgia for those of us who have been playing with computers since near the beginning. Thanks!

[@justinoff1]

Over the past year I've gone to IBM facilities to photograph their Power 10 line of servers and components for their advertising literature. The stuff is mind blowing in their capabilities. I've been to Guadalajara, Austin, Minneapolis, Armonk and others multiple times. Hopefully the quantum facility is in the near future

[@RolandOuellette]

The soldered on cpu was not a huge problem in that it would be returned to manufacturing to be reworked. A correctly sized solder fountain remelts the cpu free for replacement. The MCM tech was developed jointly with Cray. Cray used it in CStar to implement their memory interconnect. At a Supercomputing conference in Seattle, 05 or 06 I saw one of these Power cabinets with the 8 or 9 chip MCM. Impressive. But the cabinet was incredibly cost reduced. There were sheet metal edges with burrs on unrolled edges. If I were in field service, gloves might have kept me out of the ER needing stitches, but only if I were wearing gloves that reached above my elbows. That said, the dangerous bits were inside the cabinets where mere mortals knew not to go.

[@MarceloRomuloWeissheimer1985]

Very interesting pieces of hardware and great content!!! Thank´s Roman :D

[@Wirewrap36]

Some IBM cpus like this and Power 3-2 used ceramic column grid array packaging for high relibility.

[@McTroyd]

That ceramic Power 5 is a work of art. I'd frame it in a shallow shadow box or something.

[@MrMcGreed]

This kind of video is exactly why I'm subscribed... I love these investigations!

[@XDbored1]

that pin layer idea sounds great imagine if you could repair broken pins on a $500 board by just swaping a $10 part that sits between the board and CPU, the cost wouldn't be worth it for awful ewaste style OEM boards, and there would might be difficulty making it work well with faster protocals but cool concept

[@JJKK408]

My last job had just replaced their Power8 system with a Power9 system when I left. Definitely not something I’d expected to be working on just getting out college last year. The mainframe architecture was definitely something I didn’t learn much about in school, but it’s probably a fairly unique experience for someone my age.

[@Asdayasman]

Huh I wondered why I hadn't seen an English video from you in ages. Turns out there's another channel for them. Who knew.

[@simo_2462]

I would really love to see it powered on

[@JimBrego]

Very interesting as always.

[@rajackar]

Great stuff. Really cool to see this type of engineering. Keep it coming ;-)

[@TheSmileyTek]

Those are so cool! Amazing engineering, and I'm loving the content, taking at look at this stuff. They are like works of art. Especially when the dies are exposed.

[@ricardoreis7298]

At 4:50, that's not copper, it's aluminum with an orange anodization.

[@emilypeters8888]

I love seeing the cpu disassembled lvl by lvl as to understand better how current tech work

[@notfastenough3350]

08:23 That Power 5 Multi Chip Module (MCM) is found in p5 590 or p5 595 Unix servers released in 2004. Look for IBM system p5 595 technical overview if you want to find out more on the server hardware.

[@indimopi]

Beautiful CPUs! CPU Galaxy channel also has a very impressive collection of these kinds of CPUs.

[@andruloni]

cpu's's

[@indimopi]

@@andruloni Oops, wrong plural.

[@nakmail]

I don’t think the soldering of the cpu to the board would particularly be a problem for ibm. Likely they would just swap out the whole module on failure as part of your painfully expensive servicing agreement. Even more likely, there’d be one or two of these spare in your system, and you can just pay them to add the processing to your mips budget. You didn’t think you bought the whole machine did you? Either way, love seeing the engineering on display here!

[@melkosauruman1706]

The entire cpu unit would be swapped out with the engineer probably swapping the ram over which is why they are built so well as they had to survive getting to the site in the back of a taxi or the engineers car before being fitted and a lot of the engineers I knew were not the most subtle people so a simple design was important and the people who would fix the boards would be back somewhere in the IBM universe. Most sites would have maint contracts so that IBM would do any fixing/upgrading for you as while its a simple job if it goes wrong like you drop the part and crack it you don't care where as that sort of module may have come with a price tag of a decent car.

[@alpha007org]

Some may wonder why there is the whole module containing CPU, RAM,... If you are maintaining server farm, you have a server cabinet with 40-50 of these "slices". And when controlling software informs you one module stopped working correctly, you just pull the whole module out and replace it.

[@mausimus1]

The ad has a typo, says "ink" instead of link... 01:06

[@Dan-Simms]

I worked in IT at a Ministry of Natural Resources in the early 2000s, I remember those huge tower servers, and mainframes. Brought back some good memories.

[@buffdogg]

That bigger 8 core MCM may have also came out of their largest Unix servers, an IBM p590 or p595 (I could be wrong). It could have came out of their mainframe (z Series) too like Der8auer mentioned. The p590 and p595 were monster servers that came in their own rack (not a standard T42). I sold several of these and we would often sell a special movable tray/stand that acted as a lift to remove and service their extremely large and heavy CPU modules (processor books). I still remember the main part number for these servers 9119-590, 9119-595.

[@GarasiKomputer]

retro review on the next level, love it.

[@christopherpetersen342]

Wish I could have sent you all the POWER5/5+ and POWER6 we more or less scrapped out of data center in 2015. :-( Good memories, but I would not trade them for my current POWER9s...

[@Wasmachineman]

9:34 that would trigger so many CPU-World users. DO IT!

[@roomempty343]

thanx, Roman!

[@grapsorz]

that cooler was intresting.. it look to have two heatpipes in it

[@ZenInnovations]

You are bringing lots of Exclusive hardware. I like it. What happened to your dual language channel? Did you split it?

[@der8auer-en]

Yes, unfortunately KZbin just doesnt manage to recommend the correct language to the viewers. This seems to be the better way for the future :)

[@ZenInnovations]

@@der8auer-en hmmm... My channel seems to be plagued by the same issues. I may have to follow your footsteps...

[@haloasc]

Replaceable VRM on a server is a godsend quick and easy and not expensive.

[@jguo]

In the early 2000s we had an Apple Xserver mounted on a rack to serve podcasts. People keep putting things on top of it and the weight actually bent the chassis until one day the bottom of the PCB came in contact with the aluminium case and you guess what happened. Always good to have extra bracing :p

[@worple1963]

You are the man

[@Dr_Mario2007]

Never have seen a CPU implementing two separate Northbridge chipsets to handle the memory transaction via two separate RAM banks (Quad channel? It could just be dual channel as well.) PowerPC is one interesting RISC processor. Older high-end PowerPC processors used to use a twist to the PGA and BGA socket technologies, CCGA - Ceramic Column Grid Array, even so, they're LGA nowadays for better long term reliability, especially when the thermal cycling is concerned.

[@Gastell0]

The heatsink IS interesting, it has two embedded pipes to actually spread the heat

[@BobHannent]

You skipped the heatsink but didn't observe that it seems to have heat pipes cast into it?!

[@sirromeoj]

I would love to see how these things were made

[@PantsManUK]

Back in the beforetime of the long, long ago, multi-U servers were very common (4U, 8U). Think "side on towers in a rack". Damn things were difficult as all heck to work with when they needed moving....

[@d00dEEE]

The largest CPU I recall is that of the Illiac IV, which was about the size of a semi trailer.

[@bence.gabor.slezak]

Let's buy a unique, very rare and expensive server! Now let's take it all apart!

[@ChimeraX0401]

PowerPC, the CPU that you thought that is already dead but still being used in some servers and surprisingly still have linux support but RHEL drop support on it which is surprising....

[@SquintyGears]

I want one as a coaster. It looks like the perfect size

[@emilypeters8888]

Would there have been one protector per slot

[@pipoviola]

Amazing, man!

[@KawazoeMasahiro]

Interesting! I wonder if the idea of an intermediary PCB for pins could port over recent LGA sockets. With the recent Gamers Nexus video uncovering how much of a problem bent pins are for vendors, I'd be curious to see if a revised design like this one could help reduce RMAs. It might even reduce cost of upgrades for long standing sockets like the sTRX4/8 since you could reuse the pin package between CPU+motherboard swaps which would only have easy to manufacture pads.

[@vikmanphotography7984]

You should look at some of the chips on ultra high end network switches

[@dusan.racicky]

8:25 mainframe cpu? IBM Ceramic MCM (Multi-Chip Module) Processor FW509436

[@justinoff1]

I think a lot of people are unaware of IBM's roll in government and education contracts supporting systems which are 40+ years old. To date IBM still manufactures Tape storage for government contracts. IBM is unique in the roll they play supporting not only Corporate infrastructures.

[@utp216]

… been waiting for this!

[@mat-mat101]

Wow, 1:10 what's the motherboard name?

[@mat-mat101]

Oh, that's what. A Pro 565 chipset from AMD. Never heard of it until I opened this video.

[@blar2112]

The heatsink had embedded two heatpipes!

[@12skyline21]

i think CPU Galaxy has more of those from what i remember .... you might want to see that aswell if you like ceramic cpus

[@blankblank4949]

I know itd be kinda sad to watch, but do you think we could try die shots of some of these chips? I wonder how clean they would come out considering how much larger things are, or maybe that theory is stupid idek

[@bhavyagogri]

Does the copper CPU Cooler have a vapour chamber?

[@8JKOLAKF8UG8]

I would love to see what's inside hut at the same time can you do that last if your going to mod or do anything retro or like you said do something with it then after your done & do that video give us a look from inside. But if you can 3D Model or render it or x-ray it to not hurt it that'd be great!!!!

[@dustinolsen4994]

Just a thought, make shure the ceramic is not BeO! A slow death would result in ether long contact with or breathing the powder

[@xiro6]

you can use a CO2 cheap laser to engrave the ceramic, at since it will not melt the metal it will keep the "structure", just vaporizing the ceramic fill.

[@seanvucich]

I've never had the opportunity to work with IBM Power PC chips. So thanks for this, some very interesting stuff. HP do their HP-UX series of machines designed to run the HP Unix O/S. I have had the opportunity to work with that a few times. But not at a hardware level, so would also be interested in some content on that if you ever come across it!

[@Roman00744]

Thank you Raman, great video, would love to see more.

[@edegors]

Amazing CPU board.

[@davecolwell725]

As we continue to push our components harder and harder I think the next trend in component cooling will be internal aerodynamics of a pc case I mean it’s already starting with the Nvidia 30 series cards but I believe full on aerodynamic tuning or internal case spaces and gpu combos. The general 3 fan design of graphics cards is really quite inefficient aerodynamically in some cases and that split air case that Linus reviewed recently. For some reason the design of this thing made me think of it.

[@DigitalJedi]

Ideally I want a case with 2 intake fans and 2 exhaust fans. All 180mm. The case is split into 2 wind tunnel style chambers, each with 1 fan at the front and back. The cpu and it's cooler go in the top section, and the gpu gets plastered to a big heatsink that takes up the bottom one. Preferably the motherboard would have the ram horizontal or laying flat like SODIMMs to obstruct as little air flow as possible.

[@DKMarik]

Hopefully you’ll also check the Sun SPARC out. Other marvel of technology

[@darnice1125]

Interesting its and IBM processor but the board says Hitatchi, which at the time was a compeditor. I know they did team up on mainframes for compadibility. See it went all the way down to the server line.

[@RixtronixLAB]

Nice, thanks for sharing :)

[@yuan.pingchen3056]

Why 'megabytes' translate to 'terabytes' when language was set to Chinese in both of simplified and traditional?

[@PushyPawn]

I can only imagine the astronomical price these would have cost at the time.

[@buffdogg]

Millions of $. In the rarest of cases (I never saw nor sold one this expensive) you could get into the 10s of millions.

[@98ankush]

Ah this is what people called a NUC element decades ago

[@KonuralpBalcik]

I think you are still dealing with an unrivaled device. Power 5 CPU is very powerful.

[@goranzarkovic7350]

those cooper heatsinks are just yummy hehe

[@ayoubharry]

yes plz remove the cpu from the board to see how it is conected is it only with the pin that we can see on the side or there is more

[@Zygorg]

Imagine DIY motherboards for users! The OC's the people would get!

[@Maisonier]

Where is part 3?

[@TheKazragore]

"Precision Unsoldering Device".

[@RolandOuellette]

Solder pot/fountain. At DEC, we had some boards with a combination of surface mount and through hole. Replacing a failed through hole device on an otherwise OK board used these and sometimes they were used in manufacturing in the first place.

[@jj74qformerlyjailbreak3]

I need a power 5. Cpu. Pretty sure that other cpu was also from power 5. Or 6.

[@liontiger2945]

at the time this CPU was powerful or intel server CPU?

[@theshadowknows6969]

Would love to see pricing for one board. So damn cool.

[@buffdogg]

I tried to see if I had an old copy of the config software I used back when I sold these. It was called eConfig. It's long gone so I can't give you exact pricing but can ball park. On the lower end your floor would be in the low 100s of thousands USD (maybe sub $100k for the single socket entry models which didn't really suit enterprise needs as they didn't have enough redundancy). Often the servers we configured were sold in the millions. And at the high end (pSeries 595) maxed out with cpu and ram would well into the 10s of millions of dollars. All these are msrp prices and would typically sell for roughly 30-40% off of msrp.

[@theshadowknows6969]

@@buffdogg thank you!

[@buffdogg]

@@theshadowknows6969 welcome

[@fanofentropy2280]

I wonder if the chips we have now will look as archaic in 20 years.

[@DigitalJedi]

I'm imagining somebody opening an EPYC 64 core chip and just going "all this for 64 cores..." or wondering why there weren't multiple core designs for better efficiency in different loads and tasks.

[@piotrradecki8871]

The big CPU is probably from p5 595. This server had 16gb dedicated memory modules

[@objecttothis]

Wait, are you actually asking if I want to see you grind through this processor to see what's inside? Yes. yes I do.

[@xero110]

Yes, please grind the CPU. I have always wanted to know and see why IBM Power CPUs are so thick.

[@ivosarak959]

Running of the Power system may be interesting hobby to be, but information on it is non-existent and component prices tend to be against it. For example the ebay has a set of Power9 CPUs available, but where one shall get motherboards or knowledge if any available OS is capable of running on them.

[@misaalanshori]

Now, what is the smallest CPU?

[@TechyBen]

TechTechPotatoe and wafer sized chips: "Am I a Joke to you?"

[@JohnDuthie]

beautiful

[@leebee1100]

I very much appreciate your well taken care of hands/finger nails lol. I know it sounds odd, but so many other reviewers have some pretty gross nails. Let’s just say if you’re gonna shoot up close to your hands in 4k, please cut your nails haha. You are awesome Derbauer!

[@ygdefine322]

I dont think that was a solid copper based cooler, it looked like it had embedded heat pipes to allow the heat to travel better

[@FalconerDelta]

I want more outro

[@custume]

do you sell that delid tool, HEHEHEHEEHEH

[@Petr75661]

13:35 ah, so this is why the 11th gen Intel CPUs have so high TDP - to serve as cat warmers :-)

[@tuff_lover]

It looks like a bunch of older K7 CPUs from AMD, stuck in one place.

[@D.j.Tricks]

Sine , cos , tan , pulse , pulse width , sin , gate , physician doctors name, childhood wish .