Ryzen 7000 Delidding - Unreal Temperature improvement with Direct-Die Cooling

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Music / Credits:
Outro:
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Samples used in this video:
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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
1:08 Temperatures in Cinebench
1:31 The test setup
2:10 We are delidding a Ryzen 7900X
5:46 Scanning the CPU-Die & CAM
6:46 We are CNC milling a Direct Die Frame
7:56 Preparing the 7900X
8:51 Direct Die Frame & Backplate
11:28 Mounting the cooler
12:17 AM4/AM5 cooler compatability
16:06 Temperatures with Direct Die
18:14 Conclusion
21:32 Outro (RIP 7700X)

[@lordseph]

Everyone's doing performance reviews and Roman goes straight for the delid. So awesome.

[@Pilleet]

I was thinking exactly same.

[@TheOmei]

He knows his audience

[@marcogenovesi8570]

when you see 90 degrees with a beefy watercooling like that, delidding is a natural consequence

[@th3master]

Maybe LN2 next video hehe i would love that

[@KenshiroPlayDotA]

A 7900X got beheaded, but it was worth it ! köpfen = behead in German, but it's the verb used for delidding :D

[@DrewTeter]

Everyone: "Delidding will be extremely difficult" derBaur: "Actually it's super easy, barely an inconcenience."

[@ole86]

oh really?

[@kaihG]

SO you have a new delidding for me??

[@volundrfrey896]

Love the reference

[@kaihG]

@@volundrfrey896 References are TIGHT

[@Real_MisterSir]

I want the warranty team to get all the way off my back about delidding their product!

[@vaulics]

Excellent video as usual, thank you. Very informative and encompassing much more material than the topic, including all of the findings on the way to delidding the thing like cooler concerns, IHS height, etc. Always the scientist, adding data to the pool. We appreciate you!

[@cts006]

As a happy owner of a Delid-Die-Mate 2 and a direct die frame for my 9900K. I am super excited for the new delid tool and die frame.

[@RyanEllerbe]

I have a 9900k and wonder if it’s still worth doing this if I plan to upgrade soon since it’s getting old now.

[@Dude-xv4os]

@@RyanEllerbenahhh you dont need to upgrade till zen 5 brother maybe even zen 6

[@CatheteriZedEYE]

i wonder if there are companies that would sell de-lidded CPU's with blocks and brackets as a package, those temps are insane

[@guily6669]

Most likely not worth it at least judging people's price on delidded intel CPUs... Even used they sell old CPUs delidded at such high prices that a lot of times we can now buy something much newer and better for the same price sadly... I wish was that intel and AMD would sell a slightly cheaper CPU without IHS cause it's sad paying for something that I don't want and much less something pointless that makes the product much worse 🙁

[@bloodybucket213]

You just watch a video from one !!!😀

[@CrimsonDay92ShaDow6iX]

Right! 95 to low 70 is indeed impressive! Debauer u should update amd of the IHS thickness issues or maybe release a delid kit into mainstream damn impressive ! 😱

[@RYU47376]

@@guily6669 problem is when people tighten it too much and destroy their cpu it will be amd and intel problem... If they release it like that there wouldn't be a warranty

[@jammdoe1873]

They should make the ihs more thinner

[@naaitsab]

This does prove that upgrading to a thicker IHS to maintain very questionable cooler compatibility is indeed a huge mistake and kneecaps the newer lineup. Roman knows his stuff and deserves way more views with content like this.

[@der8auer-en]

Thanks a lot

[@matthuntelaar8486]

Amd had to make coolers compatible because customers are already forced to buy expensive motherboards and DDR5.

[@darkpitt1]

It's for when they sell the "upgraded" gen 2 AM5. They have to leave some easy room for improvements on the table xD

[@Archer_Legend]

@@matthuntelaar8486 But then AMD will pay this choice for as long as AM5 gets cpus... they might have shot themselves in the foot for the future generations with this choice.

[@erkinalp]

​@@darkpitt1 There is already a room left for AM5r2, such as increasing PCIe lanes from 28 to 64.

[@JobeStroud]

Was waiting for this. You just can't help yourself delidding every CPU you get your hands on.

[@madfrosty5228]

Love the workshop Roman , good machining skills 👍

[@HiltonHeslop]

Hey Roman After delidding to get the chip to get dies flat and clean of all indium, after using the blade… Put a piece of paper down on a granite counter and rub the chip upside-down like lapping on the page. The indium does “what lead does” and will rub off on to the page until just the die is exposed and no indium is left and it will be nice and shiny… stay safe man

[@hquest]

Mixing mechanical engineering with computers is what marvels me in the industry. Kudos Roman for sharing those - even if not all your audience can appreciate it in full.

[@thepopeofkeke]

They been doing it in Japan since forever. You would love a trip to Akihabara

[@myairspace121]

@@thepopeofkeke I was amazed when I visited. As a mechanical engineer, I will certainly be going back to Japan.

[@siontheodorus1501]

@@thepopeofkeke What is there on akihabara? Most of the time it is famous for selling a lot of anime stuff and computer parts, but i never know about this thing. Tell me more about it

[@symbally]

That temperature difference is incredible. I totally understand CPUs won't ever ship de-lidded for good reason but, it seems like a no brainer to do better here (IHS) considering most people to buy this generation will be needing a whole new rig. I guess they don't really need it just at the moment and can save that efficiency improvement for later. Thanks for the video!

[@rockl79]

I think that at least for enthusiasts they should make a delidded version, for years back in the early 2000s many cpus didnt come with an ihs (granted, this also ended with many cpus dying from chipped or cracked dies). But having a cpu advertised as meant for enthusiasts and also make consumers aware of the risks, I think it could end up working out

[@bschwand]

they used to ship without lid. My AMD athlon had the cooler directly applied to the chip...

[@alienorificeinvestigation]

Back in the day they didn't have lids, it was good times. 😂

[@distortions1]

Awesome video. Thanks for showing the potential so early on.

[@SamanthaVimes177]

My theory is that the IHS was kept super thick for 3D V-Cache yields. IIRC AMD was having lower than desired yields on the lapping process to make the 5800X3D because they had to make it so thin to fit the existing socket specifications. So I think the thick IHS might just be extra thick to give them more room to play with when tuning tolerances and yields for next gen 3D stacked CPUs.

[@Nunkuruji]

Thinking the same thing. Though still curious how much further the cpu can go with the extra thermal headroom.

[@maximus3294]

that's a super interesting and very plausible hypothesis. gonna remember this when r7k x3d CPUs come out next year

[@legros731]

It jus to keep compatibility with am4 cooler the switch to land grid array (LGA) changer the cpu height vs (PGA)

[@orangepacker7479]

Thought the die size was the same for 5800x and 5800x3d? Didn't know about these manufacturing issues.

[@legros731]

@@orangepacker7479 there are no issue the guy only assuming It was to keep the same height as am4 for cooler compatibility

[@TechLevelUpOfficial]

If done right, This might end up being your most successful deliding and direct die cooling product. Will see how you are going to improve it, and if AIO manufacturers will end up adding some proper backplates to make things easier.

[@S3V3RI7Y]

Id like to see more nickel plated AIO offerings to maybe make this direct die cooling a bit easier to do without a fully custom loop!

[@TechLevelUpOfficial]

@@S3V3RI7Y Yes exactly.

[@zkilla4611]

@@S3V3RI7Y If you're going to delid. You may as well have a custom loop. It can be cleaned and reused for many generations. If maintenance is done properly.

[@smileysan9261]

I mean dropping the temps 20°C... i am gonna buy it!

[@fredEVOIX]

was never interested in delidding but 20 is just too big to ignore

[@Ambandion]

Love seeing the manufacturing part, since I’m a toolmaker myself and uses those kind of machines

[@JockoFlocko]

Wow, that's an EPIC cooling increase. Might be a good idea for AMD to sell delid 'd cores with no warranty through specialty suppliers. That is just insane how much these die covers are interfering with heat transfer... Great video!

[@mindtreat]

You are the missing link between the manufacturers and the consumers. Thank you for everything you're doing!

[@tutoriais5266]

Sht up

[@static7985]

@@tutoriais5266 *Shut up

[@trytoclutch9450]

Gamersnexus has entered the chat...

[@wololo10]

He's the chosen one

[@oliverwilton5389]

As a CNC machinist and a PC enthusiast, and some one used your 7700k delid kit, this is amazing content 👌 👏 🙌

[@Fenix1861]

As a CNC machinist, how simple do you think it would be to mill out say 1.2mm of IHS thickness (leaving a 1mm border around the outside)?

[@oliverwilton5389]

@@Fenix1861 with the machines in the video, easy. Should work to with in 0.01mm, as long as its set up correctly by the operator.

[@Fenix1861]

@@oliverwilton5389 what about on a manual vertical mill? I am thinking it might be a viable alternate solution (when combined with altering the cooler contact plate) that minimizes the inherent risks of delidding a soldered IHS while drastically improving overall thermal transfer.

[@iemozzomei]

@@oliverwilton5389 hitting 0.02mm pretty easy with an 80+ year old Bridgeport, I'd be more worried about clamping and flatness here.

[@oliverwilton5389]

@@iemozzomei very true, however, I would be machining the IHS with the CPI still attached. It could easily get damages some how. It might take a while, but lapping the 2mm off the top of the IHS, then skim the stand offs down on a laith by 2mm might be the best option.

[@andrewszerbiak7330]

Love your videos! I can't wait to try and delid my own CPU for the new Ryzen! Hope you can get all of this to market soon!

[@technologylord4017]

Excellent Production Value and Very Well Spoken which makes this a Great Channel !

[@arko612]

I was going to congratulate AMD for letting a lot of consumers keep using their old cooler, especially if they had high end coolers but now it is confusing whether the 'goodwill' decision was a worthy trade off over such a big difference in temperature.

[@WaterZer0]

Hopefully they'll offer a shorter version for zen 5.

[@sonicbroom8522]

@@WaterZer0 What about Zen 4 3D?

[@WaterZer0]

@@sonicbroom8522 I don't see why it would be shorter, but they could I suppose.

[@DxCBuG]

i wish you could order the CPU from AMD with an incompatible spreader for better performance - so a High Performance Skew. Because the benefits are so huge i would definitly buy a new cooler. You have to get a new board, DDR5 and possibly a power supply anyways

[@Varangian_af_Scaniae]

@@DxCBuG With the price of electricity now, those 15W saved will pay for the cooler in just a few month😉😆

[@thatsgottahurt]

The flood of reviews today was great, but this type of video is what I really wanted to see. Thanks for always having interesting content thats not the same thing over and over like other channels. I also appreciate having your videos in English as well - I would be fine with closed captions, but having this second channel is very nice, thanks again!

[@chosen1one930]

I can't wait for the stacked cache models early next year or so etime in 2023. As good as Ryzen is now it's only going to get better. Has anyone done a full custom loop yet? Interested to see what how far you can push an all core overclock

[@kalonsamulonis5782]

As always... you bring it across the finish line. Thanks

[@jameshorourke2]

Great video. It reminds me of the same type of mods I used to do back in the late 80's, 90's and 2k's. I think is time to get back into the fun. Thanks.

[@TheDemocrab]

It's only just launched and you're already modding it? Never change

[@Oz-gv5fz]

And killed the 7700x 😭

[@LiveType]

Wow wow wow. That's Intel thermal paste levels of improvement. Looks like water cooling is required even more so this gen for both CPUs and GPUs to get maximum perf.

[@Grarlic]

If it's gonna constantly run this hot under any load and isn't transfering that heat efficiently, I want some real data on longevity. That is genuinely concerning.

[@volvo09]

​@@Grarlic dies have no problem running hot. I would not worry about a CPU dying from heat. oem's regularly ship systems that thermal throttle at 100c and they'll run like that for years before something else in the system dies.

[@antoniusriskiyuliando9414]

be careful with liquid metal, it is very conductive for electricity and heat, and the heat sink should be full copper.

[@rustler08]

@@Grarlic I'm pretty sure AMD knows better than you. And by pretty sure, I mean they do know better. If it was an issue, we'd have laptops that would have died a long time ago, yet they'll chug along at high temps no problem for years. Just because you're used to something doesn't mean a different result is bad. In fact, the only thing I'm really concerned about is the extra heat in my cooling loop.

[@danielchettiar5670]

@@volvo09 So at what point do temperatures start being unhealthy?

[@Kris-vr7lj]

Amazing review really! I regret not watching it as soon as it aired .. Watched so many reviews from popular youtubers and tbh yours is on another level.

[@pr0xZen]

*der8auer!* If making these bare-die kits, please consider including a _closed (!)_ cell foam "frame" with edge adhesive to install around the dies, to form a sealed barrier between the die and IHS when using liquid metal TIM. Make sure thrøe foam selected can tolerate the heat exposure. Without the IHS there to form a closed cavity, and most users having their MB mounted vertically inside a case - the risk of some LM escaping and shorting something is much greater. Still a somewhat minor risk, but now very much increased, the resulting damage can be very expensive, and this risk can be mitigated without much added work or cost if done at (your) series production level.

[@forum42087]

That 7700X gave its life so others may live!👍

[@TiDliDa1]

F 🫡

[@wololo10]

It was a wrong decision from AMD to keep the same total CPU height from last generations to keep cooler compatibility, the IHS is way too thick now and can't transfer the heat of the silicon to the water block.

[@Sam_Saraguy]

It does seem likely that they have given up some clock frequency at thermal throttling temps. How much, is an open question.

[@luigius8590]

I wonder why they didn't thicken the substrate beneath the dies with more layers of pcb

[@wololo10]

@justinthor delusional, reasearch more about the industry

[@Dsaubt]

@@justinthor yeah this is completely wrong

[@HouseOfFunQM]

They can probably get much higher yields through forcing us to run lower voltage. That could partly be why they did.

[@ronny332]

Delided my 7950x minutes ago. Very cool to see how the product was created, that I used seconds ago. Very easy to use and well designed product. Thanks a lot!

[@SpeakerWiggin49]

Freakin impressive results. Thanks for the video.

[@lennard9331]

This is one of the things I've been most excited about. Thanks for keeping direct die alive Roman 💚

[@jason2jz]

Oh my, thats insane how much direct die lowered temps. It would be nice to see 7600x or 7700x overclocking with direct die cooling solution.

[@Morpheus-pt3wq]

Agreed. It´s either about solder bad quality or too thick IHS - or both. Possible cut-cost measure.

[@TroublesomeOwl]

@@Morpheus-pt3wq he explained its because of the thick IHS which was done to keep cooler compatibility with previous gens.

[@Morpheus-pt3wq]

​@@TroublesomeOwl honestly, that´s so stupid. Typical example of a company saving money in a place, where they shouldn´t be saved.

[@PhazerTech]

@@Morpheus-pt3wq Is it really to save money though? Seems to me they didn't want people to be angry about not being able to use their existing coolers. Maybe they could have figured out a better solution, I don't know.

[@Morpheus-pt3wq]

​@@PhazerTech most cooling manufacturers are able to sell brackets for new sockets separately. Or, as in case of Noctua, send them to existing customers for free. But a company thinking about their customer´s convenience? Don´t make me laugh, or i´m gonna go ROFL.

[@ME-dg5np]

Fantastic ! Waiting for this product !

[@eflarsen]

even though i'm going to be running it standard (no overclocking, no real messing around with the stuff like that) i love all the information i get out of your videos! really interesting to see the kind of engineering that goes into the real enthusiast product market.

[@SWEJmeister]

I love your dedication for this kind of stuff. The delidding videos are some of the most interesting launch content.

[@hateWinVista]

Reviewers: The Zen 4 is so hot! der8auer: haha delid tool go zrrrrrrr

[@Saturnit3]

So much work done, good job

[@Redman147]

THANK YOU for this. Deliding was the first thing I thought of when I heard about the 170 watt TDP and 95C temperatures off the bat.

[@ivovass195]

Awesome stuff here, straight up deliting the new process, big props for fast prototyping and getting great results already. Looking forward to seeing the overclocked performance gains vs standard

[@lIIllIllIlllIlIl]

I can't wait for a delid tool and the Direct Die frame (maybe sold together in a kit?) to come out from you, hopefully later this fall/year! This seems amazing!

[@shayeladshayelad2416]

I dont think tou need the bracket diy modding will make same result you only need to find something to glow to the mobo instead the bracket that will hold the cooling block and fit the cpu if we can buy somewhere this bracket it will be awesome

[@Kknewkles]

@@shayeladshayelad2416 no way in hell I personally would try to manufacture any part of the process myself xD

[@shayeladshayelad2416]

@@Kknewkles lol for me it all the fun im trying to find some 3d printer that will make me something after this vid for my ryzen 3600 i will try to check what i can glue to fit with mu current cpu to direct cool it like this vid

[@Serachja]

I love direct die cooling, great job! Thanks for the upload

[@NeverlandSystemZor]

WOW! Talk about killing it! Great job!

[@drdfunk]

The world needs more of this! thank you so so so so much. Please don't ever stop or give up on this!

[@puciohenzap891]

Yeah, this is an early adopter launch, the X3D's will be the ones to have

[@sbrader97]

Yeah those should be insane in gaming probably enough to keep up with 14th gen in games before amd can get zen 5 out hopefully with zen 5 they just make them 3d vcache by default or launch the 3d models at the same time

[@Xfade81]

as if they won't run hot.

[@DuBstep115]

@@Xfade81 They will have to go all in for X3d cpus because Intel will release 14 gen next year and AMD won't release 9000 series until 2024

[@jessesmidt734]

@@DuBstep115 I love how we already assume they're going to skip another number. Maybe we will see 8000 series als the 1000 series as also followed up by the 2000

[@DuBstep115]

@@jessesmidt734 I really don't understand who tech companies can screw up the naming scheme so bad. AMD is not the only one who can't decide their numbers or names.

[@yoshika.kuzunoha]

Would be interesting to compare direct die vs delid + LM to see how much of that difference is due to solder joint limiting thermal conductivity

[@ali.flaccc]

Fantastic video and very,very interesting. Not in the market for one but I learned a lot from you as usual!

[@GamexJoy]

Amazing work! It’s so fun watching you work.

[@lordhypnos8360]

I love it. Reviews galore and here Roman is with a delidding tool and direct-die cooling. Mad man!

[@burrfoottopknot]

It is great watching your videos, everything done is meticulous and thought out. ty

[@johnkelly7264]

Love the detail. Very easy to listen to. Subbed here!

[@Luckyn00bOC]

Whoa that's SERIOUS gain for direct die - I was not expecting that. Really nice work Roman!

[@rafiqulhuda7793]

ada bang alva

[@iikatinggangsengii2471]

so kenal

[@halrichard1969]

I really like your engineering ideas. I would definitely have gone for the Pry attempt first. Your solution is so novel. Get a complete kit work up plus the CPU. I will buy it all. I want a V-cache version.

[@ryderhu2296]

damn so crazy! Insane work with insane improve!

[@willembont4790]

Well done, very impressive. Liked and subscribed. Thanks for sharing.

[@JosiahBradley]

Thank you for your continuous double effort in producing videos in English as well. You could just type up the subtitles, but you go the extra step. Great content as usual and please release a new case soon :D

[@tbrayden3694]

Great video Roman! Love how you’re able to figure out the problems with the latest CPUs, like the bending correction frame for Intel 12th gen and the IHS/z height problem with Ryzen 7000.

[@HackoDis]

Is it really a problem though? I need to see more videos on thermals and etc. For me a little tuning and tweaking and i think you could get it running cooler.

[@slavefeet57]

@@HackoDis it may not be a "problem" for the average consumer. However, if you want to tweak and tune the CPU to squeak out as much performance as possible, you're immediately limited to your cooling solution. So it would be a problem if you didn't hit the lottery on a silicon this would fix it.

[@shahrukhwolfmann6824]

This is beyond this world! Blessings upon you!

[@rENEGADE666JEDI]

Very interesting stuff! I think a lot of geeks will do it, the gains are huge.

[@mkpdh]

I have so much respect for you for being so honest with your videos. Nothings clickbatey. Even when you promote something you are honest about it. Keep up the good work bro.

[@SquintyGears]

This is when it's really fun to be really deep in this hobby. There are so many things you can do after just buying the parts to get better numbers

[@anhiirr]

yep i look at it the same way i look at cars....some "BUILDS" are purely/merely for show....others really build tune a powertrain get an ideal differential and gear ratio for MAXIMIZED power paired with suspension and tire grip thats perfectly engineered for fun/performnace....others just an aesthetic shit show...much like PC build methodology and enthusiasts.

[@thorgen_ironside5279]

Your content is always great, thanks!

[@darthfigures5395]

I can't wait to get the tool and bracket. So many of us are eagerly awaiting these items to be available for purchase worldwide.

[@magnetron2.049]

Those are some 7700K's temperature improvements at 20C it's just awesome , as a delliding enthousiast !

[@BBWahoo]

This is a big relief, I don't go over 65° on my 3950X at around 4.5, so the fact that you can edge out 70° on 5.5ghz on the 7950X is seriously killer!!! I'm not upgrading this generation, but now I'm ready to get into delidding when Zen 5+ is out

[@kingofstrike1234]

well, there's a coverage done by pcworld that many media doesn't talk about, it's about eco mode in the new zen 4 cpus which limit the tdp to 105 / 65 w, instead of using the 95 ° temp as a limiter

[@BBWahoo]

@@kingofstrike1234 Will check it out, thanks for the info!

[@anhiirr]

only issue i had with the 3950x or from an "upgrade" standpoint was ccx and per ccx cache, zen3 was quite the leap since they did away with ccx and brought upon the zencore/integration of a shared cache pool and simultaneous access/computing/ipc from core to cache vs the ccx design which led to voltage jumps/clock bouncing/spikes ultimately latency issues based on those characteristics. Which even the 5950x SHOWS compared to a voltage tightened/OC 5800x or 5900x by comparison which run games better 5800x>5900x even in some cases where scheduling becomes an issue with less than optimized engines/games FC6 being a more recent example.....BC MY FC6 Came free with my 5900x was delayed 1 year from launch....and yet UBISOFT/AMD lobby yields a scheduling issue for r9 cpus in the FC5-FC6 "MADE FOR RYZEN" franchise....granted 12900k also sees the same issue. Also owning a 3950x led to clock tuner ryzen, Dram calculator, ryzen master being used as well as switching things like SMT off for games like escape from tarkov, cs:go, valorant, siege....among others. Which constituted reboots etc forgetting which setting is enabled for which use/case etc. Looking up your board/bios to see which ryzen power profile is most ideal for your specific build bc its non specific and even bios updates could mean you have to switch power profiles to sustain original OCS/stability or lead to crashes which is a nice ADDITION of work load on a random day

[@Samdevay]

@@anhiirr kya kehna chahte ho

[@rostislavjerabek1300]

Wow respekt! Good work dude!

[@lydiahanke]

Very impressive stuff, keep it up!

[@psiah9889]

I thought the IHS looked unusually thick... But I *really* didn't expect such a huge difference. Wow. This is gonna end up bein' like, step one to OCing these things, isn't it?

[@momchil_v]

it`s like AMD is trying to convince ppl to buy Intel and tbh if 13th gen has similar performance at lower temps, i am buying intel cpu

[@psiah9889]

@@momchil_v to be fair, if the temp's a concern, you can set a slight power limit or undervolt, which should bring the temps down to sane under load (they're already sane in gaming loads) and at like, half the power draw you generally only lose, like, 1-3% performance, or in the case of the undervolt, sometimes you *gain* a small amount of performance. Not quite to the extent of this delid, but it'll be worth keeping in mind for when intel releases and we can actually compare them.

[@abnormallynormal8823]

@@psiah9889 no matter what you try and do, 7000 series is targeting 95C, so it’s gonna run hot, pretty much always

[@vespa7961]

@@abnormallynormal8823 you can turn this off

[@blindsay]

Huge temp improvement, that's a big enough improvement that it might finally tempt me into direct-die haha

[@seoulfinn]

Thanks for another interesting video! What will happen if you de-lid and PBO2 finetune these new CPUs? Just by finetuning PBO2 some have reported lowering temps and shaving off 50 watts without losing any performance. Combining these two approaches to battle temps should have some spectacular results.

[@Masoch1st]

wow this is a serious setup. highly impressive

[@Rehbet]

Maybe the thicker IHS is to make room for the eventual stacked cache on the 3D CPUs

[@NKG416]

and possibly lower thermal too, because of thinner IHS

[@der8auer-en]

5800X3D showed that die dimensions should be the same. Mechanically I would not expect changes anymore since it's a veryfied platform

[@starshepherd11]

if i were to guess, the thicker IHS is to distribute the heat more evenly over the whole area rather than having hotspots right above the CCD in a thinner IHS, to improve the thermal situations as the CCDs are more thermally dense than ever.

[@chitorunya]

I'd guess it's to keep same z-height as AM4

[@ChrispyNut]

@@starshepherd11 That doesn't make sense though. Coolers will have similar if not greater thickness and if that was the case, why the dramatic drop when removing it?!? No, it's probably just for cooler compatibility, though as Roman points out, it's made matters worse because it's only partially compatible with the range of coolers and likely to cause confusion for many/most "average" buyers, many of whom wouldn't even consider after-sales mounting kits for their existing cooler.

[@kowalski3892]

Damn. Makes me pretty excited about new Ryzens. Hopefully X3D versions will have improved IHS's. I've got a feeling x3d's will stay relevant for nice couple of years to come. Amazing business opportunity for thermal grizzly. Looks like Your contact frame and delidding tools will be must have for Ryzen 7000's ;)

[@jierenzheng7670]

Maybe for the 3D V Cache variants, the increased Z height will result in them shaving down the IHS to maintain compatibility. Perhaps this was intended. I wonder if the 95C cap is due to the thicker IHS.

[@slavefeet57]

The thicker IHS is the reason for the temps, however the thicker IHS had nothing to do with the 3D V cache; It's to make the coolers from am4 and am5 compatible and it really blew up in their face imo.

[@NinjaForHire]

That radiator needs to be elevated off of the table so that the air can pass through, right now your fans are blowing against a wall. However that is an excellent credit for getting the job done that removal tool is great. Another point the fixed screws inside the socket bracket is an actual good thing.

[@Hypnodog_]

Amazing work! Initially, I wasn't too interested in delidding Zen 4 due to how complex the soldered IHS looked. If your kit works out, I may actually go ahead and delid my 7950X!

[@Owenzzz777]

Awesome to see day 1 de-lid and direct die cooling videos 😂 A wild guess on the thick IHS, maybe they’re planning for future SKUs (Zen 5 or Zen 6?) with thicker dies, either with 3D V-Cache, or possibly even stacked cores

[@YouCanHasAccount]

They could go for a thicker substrate as well when the z-space is not needed. Don't know what that does to the manufacturing cost but it's good that the platform literally has room to grow.

[@DigitalJedi]

My personal hope is for some Xilinx chiplets to find their way into these chips. They might end up needing that extra Z-height for thicker dies or linking the CPU chiplets with something like the Infinity Fabric in the GPUs.

[@orangepacker7479]

v-cache didn't make the 5800x3d's dies any thicker... I have hope for zen 5 and 6 though. Stacked cores would mean getting threadripper core counts on consumer chips, which would eat into their HEDT market share, so we propably won't see expanded core counts until at the earliest zen 6. My guess is they will use their zen 5c (the c stands for cloud btw) cores on their HEDTS for zen 5 to experiment and then bump the core counts for consumer chips at zen 6.

[@orangepacker7479]

@@cheshirster Then I'm wrong I guess. Derbauer commented elsewhere on this video (scroll until you see Rabbit's comment) that it didn't so I was emboldened I guess. The other things I said should still be true though.

[@slavefeet57]

@@cheshirster no Vcache didn't make it thicker. They explained it when they rolled it out, and debauer also states there's no difference.

[@wolfgeralt]

Nice work man, with all the data you collected and tools you designed, maybe one day you can push for unlidded CPU direct from Intel or AMD to customers.

[@ianryan9513]

Awesome work!

[@ryzenforce]

It is the 8700k days all over again. When I used your delidding kit for it, the temps lowered by 25C. Seems the 7000s series will enjoy the same threatment perhaps!

[@HellGatefr2]

Ah, what a great CPU that was !

[@DigitalJedi]

With how thick the IHS is, I think you could get a lot of improvement without delidding by just shaving down the IHS and then lapping it flat. You could make a nice kit with a 2-step lapping kit and blocks along with some shortened mounting hardware. Step1: Insert CPU into "tall" guide block. Step2: Use the coarse portion of the lapping block to quickly grind away a good portion of the IHS thickness. The tall block will bottom out on the plate and stop you from grinding down too far. Step3: Insert the CPU into the "short" guide block. Step4: Use the fine portion of the lapping block to get a flat finish on the new top surface of the IHS. The block should again bottom out to prevent you from going through the IHS completely.

[@tuco3148]

JUST DO IT BROOOO.....you will be rich!!

[@5federline]

you're more brilliant than AMD Scientists or Engineers who engineered AMD CPU for years. Success is upon you brother. You & Roman can take lead AMD CPU engineering department.

[@LennertK]

@@5federline The engineers are not necessarily at fault as they are more than likely well aware of the negative impact this thicker IHS is having. It is their management who decided that this generation needs to be made compatible with existing coolers by having the same z-height as AM4 cpus. You don't need to be smarter than the AMD engineers to improve on their design, you just need to be smarter than their management.

[@Wheres_my_Dragonator]

To be fair, pc gamers are easily anally devastated when it comes to compatibility. The backlash from them not wanting to support 5000 series on older boards probably made them reconsider cooler compatibility. So you really have no one to blame but yourselves.

[@DigitalJedi]

@@Wheres_my_Dragonator This solution does in theory allow for cooler compatibility by providing physically shorter mounting hardware. My question is why AMD didn't do this. There is clearly room above the motherboard for it to be lowered.

[@PCBWay]

As always, great content.

[@AMDRyzenEnthusiastGroup]

I'd be SUPER interested to see what direct die delta looks like with conventional thermal paste (Kryonaut) for those who are a bit scared of Liquid metal.

[@cbtorture69]

Same here

[@montymousester]

@@cbtorture69 if you're scared of liquid metal, then you're terrified of delidding so.... what's the point?

[@cbtorture69]

@@montymousester Delidding is fine, I’m using an sff pc that moves frequently so I don’t want to risk using LM

[@christophermcferrin8832]

@@cbtorture69 I actually used liquid metal in a gaming laptop I had. Took that thing to work with me and frequently had it in a backpack. As long as LM is applied correctly you really don't have too much to worry about.

[@christophermcferrin8832]

@Kadd enjoyer what do you mean?

[@burnsyd17]

I suspect the IHS is so thick to maintain a common overall Z height for when 3D vcache chips come later. Assuming you fully inspected the IHS after delid for consistent thickness, I wonder about the possibility of rather than delid could you lap 1mm off the stock IHS and find some cooler mount that allowed lowering it's contact plate by the same 1mm?

[@anhiirr]

im sure in the coming months there will be a company/group selling lil spacers/washers so you can essentially shim/mount based on MILLS with said spacer kit...for ideal mounting clearance post lap. Like A custom mounting kit with said spacers the way in the past there were cpu "brackets" for the same concept for lapped cpus and lower mounting than stock.

[@paulking4908]

Jayztwocents did exactly that. Look for his video.

[@slavefeet57]

@@anhiirr Honestly if you're going to do all of that. Delid it... It was pretty simple process. I bought an EKWB water block. Took the standoffs they gave me for the block, stuck it in a drill and spun it against a steel file to grind the stand off down. This allowed the CPU cooler to sit against the direct die mate plate Der Bauer sells. I'm running a 7900x3D and at load in cyberpunk it hits 75-77c. That's the highest I've seen it get.

[@rickyma646]

The 7700x you could potentially still use it and it would be fine from that damage. Worth trying it out. I wouldn't put circuit that close to the edge when I'm designing.

[@brunocastegliani]

Awesome!!! Awesome work!!

[@chrisdel87]

duuuuuuudeeeeee!!! sick thermals but a bit risky to do (specially after seeing the 7700X ending) awsome work!

[@andersonfrans]

Damn, that was crazy temps! But in the end, I feel bad for 7700x, that's really unfortunate.

[@Dan-Simms]

Awe it was just a kid, it didn't' even get a chance to walk yet!

[@itIsI988]

Doesn't even look like the traces are damaged though. Wonder if it still works.

[@falcoquroni1371]

@@itIsI988 If he resurrects, he could.

[@mitchk]

Fantastic work Roman... I wouldn't buy this new series AMD unless I could de-lid it and run it with proper thermals as you did. IF you sold these processors already delided, I'd be ordering from YOU.

[@necrossisnk1]

Me too

[@aztechzi]

Whata precious work! Ryzen inside!

[@porcuzburator8778]

Thank you, man! Instant subscribe!

[@JMurph2015]

I want to see the numbers for a 7950X, that one probably has even more boost headroom since it is getting the best silicon and is the most thermally constrained model of this generation!

[@Wooskii1]

Awesome video! After watching your analysis, I agree that AMD should have ditched the cooler compatibility, it's just going to add unnecessary confusion for the few people that really want to use their old AM4 cooler on AM5... Well, it looks like my EK AIO should fit, but I'm very interested in going the delided + open loop route on the next go around (soft tubes so I can swap parts) tho that's not goinna be anytime soon- I'm absolutely thrilled with my AM4 system, it does everything I can throw at it with plenty of headroom.

[@orangepacker7479]

Unfortunately there a lot of people who just want it to work immediately, and AMD can't ignore them to make those who are more knowledgeable happy

[@majed1000000]

The thick IHS is because they’re planning for the next Ryzen 8000 with thicker dies that use 3D V-Cache to be compatible with AM5.

[@sniekerd]

The equipment used is beyond epic,... SUB!!!

[@GTFour]

wow that’s mad! I’d love to see you run RBI’s epic delid and bracket setup on a super sub ambient chiller. 👌

[@CptPatch]

Given the aggressive boost profiles being reported by other outlets I'd be really curious to see what stock settings would deliver with this temperature improvement.

[@scotthassel8124]

Derbauer, do you have any idea of how much z height difference there will be between the 3D Vcache and straight dies? More importantly, could the excess height/thickness of the IHS be partially designed there with the idea of future growth space? Could the implementation of the cache on top reduce the IHS thickness from 2mm down to a more common 1.5 mm?

[@Pro4TLZZ]

Great results!

[@VeryIntellijent]

Just bought a 7600x without doing enough research. Gutted about the temps being so high but now I'm excited to try my first delidding.