Someone Turned The Trolley Problem Into A Game (Dr. Trolley's Problem)

[@yourfriendhuffy8268]

Philosophers spent years pondering these scenarios only to be trumped by the bulletproof logic of "they shouldn't be standing on the tracks"

[@Anticlimaxers]

Usually the people are tied down to the track

[@gabrote42]

The fact that he sticks to a philosophy is good, because being arbitrary is worse than having a subpar policy.

[@Viewtiful_J]

NL is just once again finding ways to bring up the old "kill all J-walkers" conversation

[@wkingston1248]

@@Viewtiful_J And he's still right

[@Northernlion]

like why are they there though

[@kopasz777]

"Plus we just created 3 new jobs" I'm dying here

[@styrofoamcow6996]

I read this the second he said that lmao

[@teejayburger2136]

@@styrofoamcow6996 same

[@mestiarcanus]

Why, are you on the track when you shouldn't be? :P

[@thekrimsonkiller]

So are they

[@bigblueshoe777]

Congrats, then, you're creating a 4th!

[@MemeSnack]

"God loves all his children equally, except if they stand on the main track" -. Ryab 4, 15-17

[@AliKandirr]

Amen brother

[@narenn91]

AMEN

[@YogiXXL]

Would be way more interesting if they were tied down. Nl seems to be relying on the fact that they are willingly putting themselves in danger

[@mjkleiman]

As would most people. Whoever designed this game fundamentally doesn't understand the trolley problem

[@Tubeytime]

Not willingly, but negligently.

[@elguty4045]

@@Tubeytime so willingly.

[@Tubeytime]

@@elguty4045 to me, that implies they *know* the train is going to hit and choose not to move out of the way. Negligence implies taking a gamble.

[@anon6975]

Nah, not just that. He also sees action as murder whereas inaction is not his fault at all. The trolley kills the people if he doesn't pull the switch, but he kills the people if he does (Using the trolley). If they were tied down, the logic would be very similar, and the blame would go to whoever tied them down.

[@ripxdoc]

explaining why changing the tracks would be murder, immediately followed by the jock/nerd choice 😂

[@cop-killer-]

that was justified

[@UngodlyFreak]

Yeah, but is murdering jocks actually evil?

[@yuruing1770]

The man’s gotta save his livelihood !!

[@elguty4045]

one more subscriber!

[@redzeppelin6]

Right after he killed 5 fans!

[@RandolfTheGrey]

In the words of legendary Canadian dad rockers "If you choose not to decide, you'll still have made a choice".

[@terryfuldsgaming7995]

Isnt it faster to just say rush?

[@phabidz]

@@terryfuldsgaming7995 why would you want fast? This isn't a race

[@EndParenthesis]

@@phabidz They are literally called "Rush" though

[@repyukJC]

@@EndParenthesis this was a giant whoosh that I enjoyed to see, thank you sir.

[@l.m.forever5920]

That sentence makes no sense unless not choosing to decide is an active choice. It’s not. It takes energy to think out the problem but it takes no energy to actually not decide, in contrary to all other possible decisions. Also, the problems issued here are not about personal choice, it’s about choosing for others. You’re not entitled to do so unless you can do it without sacrificing a human for another.

[@samgatti3045]

NL canonically doesn't return the shopping cart because "he's creating jobs"

[@halcyonacoustic7366]

Oh shit, I've been immoral this whole time.

[@Northernlion]

wrong

[@MajorasWrath1]

Pretty sure when he said that he was being tongue in cheek

[@samgatti3045]

@@MajorasWrath1 yes

[@gabemerritt3139]

I mean it's one of the only valid reasons to not return the cart.

[@chrisbrindas1559]

i wholeheartedly agree with how you digested this, but on the other hand i feel like the trolley problem usually comes with a caveat that the victims are in no way accountable for the position. When you normally see the 2 train tracks all the people are tied to it, when you dont tie them down they're there on their own volition

[@kiyokiyoko]

Commenting because of the brilliant they're there their

[@benejeneb]

There they are! On the tracks! Do you know them? No but that's where they are, they're there!!

[@elastichedgehog6339]

@@kiyokiyoko English teachers love him.

[@ino_mation]

Their own fault for allowing themselves get tied to the tracks

[@BananaWasTaken]

‘They’re there on their own volition’ Great quote

[@jimmyoutlaw9384]

“I can imagine there’s sound?” 2 seconds pass “Yeah I’m gonna turn that down”

[@Shines.22]

0:52 henlo you stinky Northernlion January highlights!

[@Hassy171717]

... "cause I don't have many pairs of underpants left." LOL

[@jama655]

The man only has so many pairs of underpants

[@CSXrailfan814]

When the vices in your head are too loud

[@robinvik1]

NL, none of these people put themselves in danger. YOU put them in danger by destroying the breaks of the trolley at the beginning of the game.

[@gregoryhammond9341]

*surprised pikachu face*

[@tristanstrain9751]

That's some awesome deep lore, but also it's the fault of the trolly company to not replace the trolly.

[@MrLego3160]

@@tristanstrain9751 how are they gonna catch it tl install new brakes? It cant stop!

[@TheDarkeningShadow]

@@MrLego3160 They just gotta put trucks in front of it!

[@tristanstrain9751]

@@TheDarkeningShadow Or fat people, apparently!

[@jordanjohnston5108]

Narrator Voice: In this episode, Egg solves problem that has has plagued ethicists for decades.

[@DH-dl1ut]

Moral of the story: Stay off the tracks, an egg god will not save you

[@orpheos9]

Except if you subscribe

[@RubyPiec]

@@orpheos9 false, he killed "people that love you" at 15:14

[@misha7829]

Bro the fact that the game didn’t specify that ppl didn’t know the tracks were unsafe or did not come there by their own free will is insane. Like dude you had 1 job here :( Very good content tho

[@coolboyyo654]

Yeah there's a reason most depictions of the problem have them tied down.

[@louieberg2942]

Yeah, agreed. While there are some people who engage with thought experiments "the wrong way" (i.e. they want to cheat, rather than think about the underlying issue), the element of how voluntary their presence in the scenario is, can be a relevant thing to take into consideration.

[@miguel7888]

@Karon Nuva yeah but these weirdos are just standing on top of the track dancing

[@louieberg2942]

@Karon Nuva Yes, but (as Miguel says) the people seem to be dancing and for some it may be an introduction to the Trolley Problems. The disclaimer that it deals with people being there against their will would've been smart. Maybe the game designer started out with people being there voluntarily and would later expand to people being there against their will.

[@terryfuldsgaming7995]

@@coolboyyo654 Yeah and little things make a big difference. Like in one version its a worker on the closed track and 5 people not paying attention on the active track. In that case i let the responsible worker live and Darwinism take its course. lol

[@femsplainer]

Everything seemed straightforward until they got to the "everyone you love" vs "everyone that loves you" question. The fact that there were no people who both love you and and whom you love, well that leads me to option number three and throwing myself on the train tracks to stop the trolley because that is a sad lonely existence.

[@BananaWasTaken]

But what if you theoretically can’t get out the trolley and onto the tracks on time, or what if you don’t theoretically weigh enough to block the trolley.

[@femsplainer]

@@BananaWasTaken Who said you were in the trolley? The trolley problem typically has you outside the trolley being able to change the tracks at a junction via a lever. In any case it's a moot point if the Venn diagram of the people you love and the people who love you are two entirely separate circles. Not really much point to it regardless what ends up happening afterwards.

[@femsplainer]

@@JAC82008 I mean we could get creative...but I don't think YT likes too much graphic depictions of self harm so I'll leave it up to your imagination.

[@Michael-Hammerschmidt]

From 4:55 to 13:37 you witness the complete conversion of an egg from a reluctant Utilitarian into a cavalier Kantian

[@Rislear]

I hope the mom/dad "glitch" was intentional, actually hilarious.

[@marazali1816]

i wish the infamous ray william johnson track played there it would be nice

[@lokosoko]

Choosing one parent over the other and then having to live with the one you chose to kill? I feel like the guilt was intentional

[@chuang4254]

@@lokosoko it's the dark knight

[@finecommathanks]

Northernlion as he allows the proletariat to die: "haha I'm a job creator."

[@RodriOrio86]

That was gold.

[@daystalklol]

how Mitch McConnel thinks jobs are created

[@benjamintchang3923]

lol yep

[@Gogglesofkrome]

I don't think anyone outside of the institutionalized, MSM kool aid drinker trust fundy demographic would actually call themselves 'of the proletariate,' ironically.

[@gorbythechef]

26:57

[@int3r4ct]

I’m starting to suspect that this Dr Trolley might not have a Doctorate after all...

[@aturchomicz821]

No vey!

[@theoriginalmcbro142]

Isn’t that veird?!

[@stingersplash]

His name is D.R. Trolley. Derek Robert Trolley.

[@erikaz1590]

I think he only has an associate's

[@aturchomicz821]

@@erikaz1590 D:

[@jerrylthesekar4668]

I just found it funny how NL was steadfast in "I won't flip the lever if the casualties are equal on both tracks, regardless of what types of people are on either," until it was nerd vs jock, and then he flipped the lever to save the nerd, and the next level was titled "Hahahahahahaha"

[@dullestpeanut]

Would you have acted differently if the people were tied to the tracks against their will?

[@SaturninePlaces]

I believe that is how the original problem was staged, and it indeed carries a different moral weight compared to the near-loophole NL found in this video.

[@louieberg2942]

My guess would be that he would, yes. It features heavily into his decisionmaking that people chose to put themselves at risk and should not be saved by harming those who were simply standing by in safety.

[@sashimituga]

Yeah NL's whole point was that they shouldn't be standing on the track. Tying them to the tracks makes a lot more sence.

[@tristanstrain9751]

Probably! It's unfortunate, and also lucky, that they weren't portrayed that way. Makes it easier to walk away with a guilt-free conscience! Though, I guess besides the fat man scenario it just becomes a question of "who you think is more valuable" or "what saves more generic life" because if you choose not to interact when they are there against their will, that's still making a choice.

[@Tokw11]

For the most part, NL was going for the moral inaction of "random" is the only fair way to decide fate. It is immoral to decide a persons' life is a higher value than another persons' so unless the moral scales are tipped too heavily, inaction is the only choice.

[@wrongrabbit]

"The cat lived.. there was no ghost." Flawless logic.

[@FloofMother]

That wasn’t its last life

[@BeerandCheez]

This is incredible, the video and the comments here do a great job of illustrating this thought experiment (great content BTW NL!) A lot of people taking issue with the game, fundamentally misunderstanding the purpose of the trolley problem. Or thinking that NL has "solved" it because the people aren't tied down. Funny thing is, they and NL all have fallen right into the trap of the trolley problem, and show exactly why this problem is interesting from philosophical, moral, and psychological standpoints. Look at NL's decision making at 4:55. He takes action to sacrifice one to save the many. He rationalizes his decision in one sentence, "I'm taking the strictly utilitarian approach", and quickly moves on to the next one. Easy. Compare this to the decision at 8:25 - he DOES NOT take action to sacrifice one to save the many, then spends about a minute and a half rationalizing this decision, even so far as coming up with an entirely different situation. Not so easy? This is incongruent with decision making earlier on - this was not the utilitarian approach. These two situations had the EXACT SAME possible outcomes, yet NL reacted differently and chose different outcomes. And most people here nod and say, yes, that makes sense, these are both the correct decision. How is this possible? Imagine viewing this from a robot's perspective. The robot just watched a man in one scenario sac one to save the many...then proceeded to do the opposite? Why? From a mechanical, objective standpoint, this makes no sense - this was irrational, illogical. Yet NL's brain has no problem morally justifying the "truth" of his decisions, despite them being completely opposed to each other. And most everyone would agree (as highlighted by the comments here!) The small difference between the two problems highlights a point, even in a silly, pixelated game form - we have no problem sacrificing one to save the many through an INDIRECT action (pulling a lever to change tracks), but we DO have a problem with sacrificing one to save the many through DIRECT action (pushing a man onto the tracks). But if there were some sort of universal, moral, objective "truth" to good, then this shouldn't be the case. Or should it? :D Only time I've ever made a YT comment, but I had to because it's awesome to see this experiment played out not only in the video, but in the comments to great success. Keep up the great content Egg, loving it!

[@colinpaton3304]

Yo this comment was pretty pogged

[@elreywong]

Was wondering about the difference myself when I got to the second scenario you mentioned. Never realised that it was about the action themselves.

[@mikkelh9757]

I’d argue your point is weakened by the fact that he changes his mind regarding the utilitarian standpoint later. Besides, the main problem with the game is the fact that NL assumes these people “had it coming” by virtue of standing on the tracks.

[@BeerandCheez]

@@mikkelh9757 But that's the beauty of the thought experiment! The very fact that he changed his standpoint! The purpose is to get us to analyze WHY we change our standpoints on this - what does it mean from a philosophical, moral, or psychological standpoint? What makes it interesting is the justifications we make in order to prove to ourselves that in a situation of bad choices, we are in fact making the morally best choice! NL's assumption that the people "had it coming" is not a fault of the game - it in fact showcases how we rationalize our decision-making processes. Which is the point! Think of how interesting that is: in a silly game that means nothing, doesn't even look realistic by any means, in a space that is completely consequence free, NL's brain STILL has to make up an assumption (that the people deserve it) in order to make himself feel good about his choice, for really no reason at all! And we all do this! The mind is truly fascinating.

[@BeerandCheez]

@@elreywong Pretty cool, right? And the thing is, is that most everyone makes the same choices. Interestingly, people who tend to have lower empathy for their fellow human beings tend to be more likely to push the man themselves in order to save the others, generally speaking.

[@Jindo1]

"The veiled people are the same as the visible ones." I feel like it defeats the entire purpose of the veil of ignorance to disclose to you what is underneath it.

[@matijamaksan4344]

It was a choice of wanting to see or not to see the act of running through people.

[@shadethenovice]

I guess its trying to test whether or not you care about watching the people die or not. Maybe some people would pull the switch to avoid having to see the deaths themselves.

[@incog0956]

@@shadethenovice but Ryan had a foolproof strat for that: 29:13

[@systematicbarometer4853]

“Chat...don’t look”. Nearly pissed myself laughing

[@VulpesVoce]

The jankyness of the game, the ambiguous badly worded result screens, the questionable stats, the bugs and the repetitive situations just make this quite a surreal experience. It would be cool to have some actual philosophocal content from NL but this is also just as entertaining.

[@rockyman2685]

13:44 "Not by wrath, but by laughter do we kill" *Murders a jock while laughing a few seconds later*

[@Zack_Zander]

The irony and perfect timing on that, XD

[@timvantleven6055]

"Why isn't MALF streaming anymore? " xD

[@RodriOrio86]

But the main point of this is that both the people in the danger rails and the people in the safe rails are put there without their consent. It's not like the ones that will die if you do nothing "put themselves into danger" as you said.

[@RodriOrio86]

@watson returns I completely agree. It is really fun to watch tho

[@spicycupcake]

That would make things much more interesting, but I still think the general principle applies that you can't be held accountable for not intervening on something that would have happened in your absence.

[@RodriOrio86]

@@spicycupcake That's true, but still, blaming the people in the rails just for being there is kind of a scapegoat.

[@mitchellhoward3209]

On the left track is a KZbin subscriber, on the right track is a twitch subscriber (but its a gift sub)

[@decker9911hg]

What's a gift sub and why is it different to a regular sub?

[@mitchellhoward3209]

@@decker9911hg a gift sub is a sub purchased by someone else and given to you

[@esanchez7587]

Of course, NL is gonna allow the train to hit the KZbinr. They were in the tracks in the first place.

[@stingersplash]

Twitch sub equals money so they live

[@decker9911hg]

@@mitchellhoward3209 is that bad? The op says (but it's a gift sub) like it's a bad thing

[@reggieshelton5599]

" Here's a simple trolley with WORKING brakes. It's beautiful." NL 100% caused the entire Trolly problem in the game when he chose to stop it for no reason 😂

[@ChrislynG]

“Plus, we just created 3 new jobs” I am dying from that

[@MouseGoat]

and so did they. :D

[@ciarancassidy7566]

If the bomb still went off after torturing the guy it would be both hilarious and an accurate comment on the utility of torture. Game loses like 3 points outta 10 for missing the obvious opportunity.

[@cloviepounders6703]

For the sake of this thought experiment, normally, all information provided is at face value or true to the word. In the terrorist scenario i agreed with NL, the terrorist is a terrorist who planted the bomb and torturing him or her will get the information to prevent the damage. So being that the person is 100% guilty of the crime (not feasible irl) torture is justifiable to prevent the incident only in so far as the incident is in progress or already set in motion.

[@alexboiiii]

NL: kills one worker to save 4 workers Also NL: doesn’t kill one worker to save 5 workers

[@phillipharryt]

Philosophical NL - call that René Descarten of eggs

[@TheShadesOfBlack]

I laughed at that way harder than I shouldve

[@davidknuckles6330]

Heggel

[@abadlydrawncoke4016]

It's more difficult when the people are tied to the track implying they didn't choose to be there. This version makes it way too easy to just say "shouldn't have been standing there"

[@DeepFriedOreoOffline]

The whole idea of "If the only way you can intervene is to choose who dies; you're a murder if you make the choice." makes sense. However, if you consider the fact that simply observing the situation happening there-in gives you the moral dilemma of choosing who dies, by choosing not make that choice you have still made a choice. The other thing to take into account is why are they on the tracks? They are clearly not just standing on a random train track for no reason; They are there because the robot put them there. If you think about it more like a Squid Game scenario, where you and the people on the track are all players in a game, and the information you're being given ultimately decides who gets to go back to their real life and who doesn't; Keeping in mind that not choosing is still a choice, I think actually making an informed decision is the lesser of 2 evils in this scenario.

[@chase4671]

Ryan "I hae an ideology I'm sticking to!" *Narrarator: He did not*

[@Cookielord1231]

So many answers were predetermined just by the fact that one track was straight and the trolley would drive over it anyway without intervention. Would be much more interesting if both tracks curved outside like the right one.

[@crashingtonsyoutube]

It feels like this game fundamentally didnt understand the trolley problem. In the the original its a 5 vs 1, a clear unequal thing where its not a question of which s better but if the better option can be justified to be forced. Almost all of these scenarios are "here are 2 options pick the one you like more". Which is either meaningless "well I'm progressive so ill pick the conservative" or it just results in NLs playstyle of inaction, because why involve yourself with all things being equal? These would only be meaningful if they were "The train will run into an orphanage, a puppy hospital and a museum (something objectively horrible) but you can divert it to either a conservative or a progressive so that you HAVE to make a choice.

[@ShaunCullen]

@@crashingtonsyoutube yeah exactly, like the 2 old ladies vs 2 cheerleaders, the outcome if you don't decide should be they all die.

[@Tegyukfel]

@@crashingtonsyoutube I agree. Also, they could have made it even harder if the trolley wasn't empty. Like the if you don't choose between left or right, the trolley will derail and everybody will die on it. So you will be forced to choose, even between just 1 on 1 scenarios - you don't want to derail a trolley with 30 elementary schoolers on a trip to the kitten festival

[@felipemontero9839]

But thats not how trolleys work. The whole point of the problem (and why they chose a trolley) was to ilustrate how refuisng to act in certain situations has moral implications.

[@Cookielord1231]

@@felipemontero9839 Then the people should have been tied to the tracks. The game portrays them as idiots partying on the railway system out of their own volition.

[@MellowJelly]

The fat controller laughed. "You are wrong."

[@Jindo1]

That multi-track drifting ending has the same energy as the Zoo Race disco party he showed off way back in Poison Mushroom.

[@DNHarris]

6:25 "Plus we just created three jobs." God, I spit my tea. Hilarious.

[@Zack_Zander]

13:45 “If the situation is gonna to happen, and the only way we can intervene is to choose who dies, than we’re a murderer if we make the choice” -literally the next situation and he choose to hit the jock, XD-

[@CountCristo]

Honestly just 30 mins of: - Extremely good takes - A demonstration of why people are usually tied to the tracks against their will.

[@femimark5021]

You mean a beautiful demonstration of cognitive dissonance 😂

[@tonyh2981]

Weird crossover of people who would choose to change track to kill a drug addict but refuse to torture a terrorist to stop a bomb...

[@ledraken3388]

Based

[@Azodo]

idk what im about to watch but im always down for a NL video

[@TheVilivan]

Pog

[@ToomanyFrancis]

When the fat man on the bridge had no name 20% killed him, when he got a name 95% killed him, when he had a name and could stop the trolley problem 25% killed him.

[@TheJoobel]

Also hilarious how Enelle is both utilitarian but then sometimes isn't

[@louieberg2942]

There seems to be a hierarchy. First he checks whether or not the people involved had a part to play in their predicament. All other things being equal, NL opts into utilitarianism.

[@bun197]

@@louieberg2942 deontology. both are for insect brain people

[@louieberg2942]

@@bun197 As in all deontological and utilitarian positions are for "insect brain people"? Which school of morality has the most appeal/compelling arguments for you?

[@warriorone6110]

The abortion trolley problem: If you pull the lever somebody dies. If you don’t pull the lever, nobody dies.

[@jimothyminkus1543]

Based

[@MajorasWrath1]

You have it backwards. I assume pull the lever means get an abortion. Not pulling the lever kills the carrier because they cease being human.

[@MrGetownedLP]

"Plus, we just created three new jobs." LMAO no shot made me laugh good one xD

[@MikeHancho663]

"Plus we just created three new jobs" 0_0 This is one of my new favs. I was cracking up at the bazooka scene.

[@ThisHandleIsVeryCleverYepSure]

Basically, if they weren’t tied down, if there stupid enough to stand on the tracks, the hafta vanish

[@fleasy4393]

I bet that Steele Dossier bit is going to kill five years from now.

[@elipersky1591]

This was so poorly designed. They put all the intuitivey preferable choices on the straight track so you could just do Egg strats and not play the game. They should have made it so you have to have agency in the act with the preferable victim on the second track. Missed opportunity for a game which has a decent sense of humour.

[@TheShadesOfBlack]

I disagree. I think what makes the trolley problem interesting is that there is no single Right Answer. Some people will take the eggs approach of just never pulling the lever. However, it’s the people in the middle ground that make the trolley problem for interesting. Maybe you value 10 ordinary people more than 1 extraordinary person, but that doesn’t mean everyone does. If the trolley problem had correct answers then it wouldn’t be a long lived philosophical conundrum.

[@DivyeshVartha]

Can't believe they didn't put a parent on the main track and 10 people on the other.

[@oskoldir]

@@TheShadesOfBlack Ok but the game was also really poorly constructed (Something's definately wrong with those statistics, for one, and many of the problems presented are uninteresting) This is just an inferior version of these kinds of ethical questions which is presented in a different format, which ultimately I think is too complex for its own good and sometimes takes away from the fundamental simplicity which is usually important, bringing in factors which cloud the core question being asked with unnecessary variables.

[@TheShadesOfBlack]

@@oskoldir I'm not saying the game is good. The statistics are probably wrong because something tells me 50%+ of the people playing the game are just memeing. And the game design itself is rather poor, asking the same style of questions over and over.

[@lucasnadamas9317]

@@TheShadesOfBlack The middle people dont exist, everyone has some level of "If i dont do anything I'm not guilty but if I do I'm a murderer" whether they say it or not, making it be what people would choose anyways on top of it being already set up makes for a very boring expierence

[@zGunTroll]

plottwist! There is a man with a gun offscreen holding everyone hostage.

[@locust765]

Little disappointed he didn't even notice the joke in the stats with the Steele Dossier problem

[@Abyssionknight]

So let me get this straight. NL believed they were all there willingly, and that the right choice was to hit the people who put themselves on the dangerous track. Yet in one scenario a head in a jar had its life support put on the tracks, which it obviously couldn't have done itself, he chose to hit the life support. That was literally the only scenario there where someone was on the tracks against their will (from his perspective) and without hesitation he broke his own logic to murder them.

[@DivyeshVartha]

It didn't break his logic because someone else put the life support there and so they're the bad person. NL doesn't act when he has to choose between strangers dying. Like many comments mentioned, the fact that they aren't tied down muddys the water, as it invites other factors like which one is the "dangerous track" and which one was the safe track, etc. The life-support question was actually meant to provoke thought about consciousness as it was only a brain that was alive but it failed to do that and unnecessarily complicated things like you said in your comment.

[@Abyssionknight]

​@@DivyeshVartha That's fair. He did add unnecessary complications to it, and I'm assuming he didn't really think about the scenario fully. I was simply noticing that he said he wouldn't sacrifice an innocent to save someone intentionally on the tracks, because it's unfair to reward stupid behaviour. As you rightly pointed out though, he also said he wouldn't pick between strangers. So I suppose what I noticed wasn't him breaking his own logic, but just two values that weren't completely fleshed out. Ultimately he values keeping his hands clean above all else, and while he won't actively kill an innocent, he won't take action in a 1:1 scenario to save one either.

[@reccaman]

"Stick to his guns" lie detector determined, that was a lie

[@gamelandmaster3680]

13:56 “If we pull the level we are a murder but if we don’t we did nothing wrong.” Proceeds to kill a jock by pulling the lever.

[@zealousmagician988]

I've never been so instantly pogged in my life

[@LPjank015]

Geralt of Riva: "...But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all."

[@cowboytuba]

"I just discovered a cheat code." That's just flawed ethics edit: make that extremely flawed ethics

[@derwahnsinniche]

The ethics are sound. His assumption that the people are wilfully stepping into danger and knowingly remaining on the tracks is the problem that defeats the entire purpose of the problem.

[@JBerg_]

"evil is evil regardless of magnitude. If I am to pick between a 'lesser' and a 'greater' evil, I'd rather not choose at all" -Gerald of rivia

[@Vincentoist]

8:30 This is the same as switching tracks and killing 1 person while saving 3 or 5. It's the same problem rephrased.

[@sellswordtv]

This is one of the funniest bangers you've produced

[@Sir_Orange_Dinosaur]

Hey NL, that's a great video, I found that watching it while on a train track really increased the immersion... Hey, is that a train heading my way?

[@quinson93]

Northernlion: I stick with my principles. Also Northernlion: I have changed my principles.

[@SmolFry_]

We truly are in a golden Era of content this year already

[@lautaroescarlon7501]

True!!! Ilove NL so much!! he is my faavorite p person of all the history of the world becauss he is so cool like my dad

[@Achiles5th]

8:20 "Will you sacrifice one man to save others.....time is ticking." *Cue Saw theme*

[@uselesspocketwatch]

Luigi does nothing and still feels smug.

[@AnCoSt1]

I would be pissed if I was just watching TV, and then all of a sudden they're like "now you're getting hit by a train."

[@DOOFydoo]

I was kinda iffy when he said he'll bring more Twitch content to YT but honestly I'm loving these weird 1 or 2-ofs

[@OpticalJesu5]

I think the biggest problem is that the trolly problem works because everyone is unwilling and the models they use are just standing there, so you can interpret them choosing to be there.

[@EternalDog]

"If the situation is going to happen and the only way we can intervene is to choose who dies, then we're a murder if we make the choice" Literally 5 seconds later >Choses to kill the Jock.

[@mkfmgaming3019]

Man philosophers would have a field day with this guys logic

[@Merp-.-Merp]

A more efficient trolly problem, would be that one will be randomly selected to die if you do nothing. Therefore, you must decide which one you would chose, or risk an unwanted outcome. This would get rid of the,"they were on the track situation"

[@lauli6171]

I agree! I feel like it shouldn't be played like he did. I think you should be forced to make a choice

[@cablecar10]

FUCKING DYING when he murked the jock

[@eirikastokes9652]

I like how this whole video implies that Ryan just wouldn't save a person. "Oh God help, I set myself on fire accidentally!" "Sorry buddy I'm neutral on this."

[@FUGP72]

They should have one where there is someone on the main track trying to rescue someone on the diverted track who isn't supposed to be there and got stuck.

[@Freekymoho]

NL comes out strong in favour of enhanced interrogation.

[@D_Boone]

In the philosophical sense, refusal of action is a choice. You are actively choosing one over the other, even when you "don't choose". That what makes it a problem.

[@asbestosrecuperation]

The "meta VR" line by the robot aged like fine vine.

[@user-pc5sc7zi9j]

20:30 Here that argument doesn't grip because a disembodied head can neither avoid nor bring itself in danger.

[@gabebolden9394]

"They shouldn't be on the tracks!" They're workers. What if it's a run away trolly car? Regular people shouldn't be standing on train tracks ever, and I feel like that might make a difference.

[@harrysachz6748]

"Trouble with the trolley, eh?" - Fisher the Breezebuilder

[@hainsay]

"What if it's a baby?" "[I want to make that decision]"

[@catheriney6209]

They’re workers...probably working on the railroad tracks and were told there would be no train.

[@Jamesaepp]

"I stick to my principals" >doesn't stick to his principals

[@Kittsuera]

even principles can have exceptions. an exception is not the rule.

[@Jamesaepp]

@@Kittsuera It's been three weeks since I watched this video but I seem to recall him changing his principals because he was actively going to protect a geek and run over the jock. I don't see any reasonable exception to a principal in that case.

[@Kittsuera]

@@Jamesaepp maybe not a general principle but a personal one certainly could have such a, unreasonable exception.

[@T0mmy9898]

if you are standing on the track, you are not a bystander. you are a trackstander.

[@csguy3223]

In a lot of these “pick 1 to kill” scenarios, people choose not to act because acting means you chose someone to die. Inaction means they died and you just did nothing. Easier to sleep at night regardless of the number dead lol.

[@kumaahito3927]

Should've pulled the switch halfway so that the train is derailed and hits all of them. *evil laughter intensifies*

[@TheSquareOnes]

Yeah, but the point is that that rationalization is flawed if you value human lives (or more generally reducing suffering in the world). Like in the classic "many on vs. one off" scenario you may not be directly responsible for putting those people in danger and thus can distance yourself psychologically, but the reality is still that your decision resulted in more death and suffering than if you had taken an active role to minimize casualties.

[@samraedeke2943]

I personally think that failing to act is just as important as acting. If someone dies by my hand, that is as bad as me choosing not to save them.

[@kumaahito3927]

That's a dangerous train of thought (if I may say so lmao). Are you also accountable for the deaths in eg. Africa when you didn't donate all your non-essential amount of money to charities? You potentially could've saved dozens of lives depending on your income. The loophole I agree with completely is that - at least the way the game portrayed it - the people on the tracks were there of their own volition and had the ability to leave the tracks whenever they wished.

[@samraedeke2943]

@@kumaahito3927 That's a very good point, I'll have to think about that.

[@Vengatio]

3:26 Not even 5 minutes in and already jaywalking is used as an argument. This is gonna be good. Edit: Nevermind it's the ultimate argument. Thanks NL for opening my eyes.

[@MouseGoat]

It's a cheat argument, if just we assume they can get away from the tracks the hole point of the problem falls. Really the game made the mistake as they should have been tired to the tracks. But it's also what makes it such a interesting thing, so many factors come into play in this problem.

[@DerpMan107]

Funny how he says that intervening makes you a murder and then immediately murder the jock without a second thought

[@EDoyl]

Omg they made ethics into a real thing

[@willhowardlokoartyui]

Eggman's content just keeps getting better

[@JoshyL146]

"chat don't look" I lost it

[@luigifan001]

Well. The main thing is that the trolley IS without control. The people on the mainline are working/standing there because they think the trolley is working fine and will not run them over.

[@jacksonbarker7594]

The people didn't put themselves in danger, it's a runaway trolley because YOU broke the breaks haha

[@demnuh]

I appreciate they've added the bridge to the thought experiment, the way it should be

[@jeremym9797]

Malf bully joke got me

[@Altair565]

Solving these is like preparing for a chess match that will take place when you turn 100 years old.