Something Terrible Is Happening in Italy

[@EconomicsExplained]

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[@errrrrrrrrrrrreaq]

👍

[@Lammot]

Pls, stop pinging on the edge of hearing when you pop up an icon on the screen. I keep thinking it's from my phone tucked away in some pants in another room. :) Ex: 0:36

[@alebado8664]

Georgia when?

[@fightforaglobalfirstamendm5617]

Why are you deleting my comments?

[@fightforaglobalfirstamendm5617]

End the eu empire! Save and free Italia!

[@SpaceChimes]

I’m young and moved to Italy in a skilled worker program (rientri di cervelli) just to find out that I couldn’t find a place more youth-unfriendly possible. It is like the country holds pride in stopping in time. I had to send a written letter by mail to cancel my internet service. This is the level of bureaucracy they hold for everything.

[@MGsyd]

But pizza is nice

[@heavydirtysaucexx9827]

Bro rientri di cervelli is bullshit, a trap, don't fall for it, stay where you are

[@sitaroartworks]

Yeah, we are pretty much fucked up.

[@ForaNakit]

Similar in Croatia. The problem is if they make bureaucracy more efficient, they will have to let go a LOT of people who don't know how to do anything else, so you would get a lot of, basically, untrained workers looking for a job that they don't know or can't do ( after sitting in the office for 25 years, you can't just go pick up the shovel and go to work on a field). Not to mention that it would look pretty bad in the next elections.

[@bethanalpha]

so you think the problem is sending mail letters instead of having digitalized? oh noes! poor thing :( I think the problem is not that, except for pricks like you. The real problem is finding a good job with decent money to start a family. Not sending mail letters

[@robertsossi3186]

Having tried living and working in Italy during the 80s I encountered many stonewalls that prevented my upwards professional ambition. Primarily, Italy is not a meritocracy. Nepotism rules. Even to be considered for a mundane job like service station attendant or Night Porter you had to be well connected. Once in employment, pay rates as well as pay dates were "flexible". Companies adhere solidly to a hierarchical culture. One cannot question or cast doubt as to a senior colleague's decision or action. Showing initiative is deemed dangerous by your colleagues and immediate superiors. So it's little wonder that young graduates opt to move to another country or seek a cushy position in state employment. The state bureaucracy is to put it mildly, glacial.

[@aeloh1m]

That’s pretty much Argentina 🇦🇷 too.

[@Kaizzer]

@@aeloh1m Half of Argentina's heritage is Italian...

[@aeloh1m]

@@Kaizzer yeah, I'm doing the citizenship.

[@TheSpacecraftX]

I hear this a lot about the Ferrari F1 team but never imagined it could be applied generally.

[@granthuxham2491]

Essentially it is a Western State with Soviet work practice

[@me0101001000]

I lived in Germany for a year. So many of the friends I made were Italian. I heard on and on about how they make more money, are treated better, and are generally happier in Germany than in Italy, bureaucracy aside. One of my closer friends told me how she never wants to go back because there is nothing left for her in Italy. If that's not heartbreaking, I don't know what is.

[@salzkasten]

How horrible Italy must be that you feel better in GERMANY of all places...

[@MagicMike_101]

Latin culture sucks.

[@ABC-ABC1234]

@@salzkasten Unlike Italy, Germany actually still pays SOLID salaries! Mind you, so many Germans have Masters and PhD's and Post Docs, and unlike other nations their high tech industry is NO JOKE! Even if you have an apprenticeship and enter a company you earn a decent living wage. The salaries of Medical Doctors (of all professions!!!) are HORRIBLE and RIDICULOUS in ITALY! All well educated Italians I know have either migrated out of Italy or planning to migrate the F outta Itally!

[@salzkasten]

@@ABC-ABC1234 I am German and our salaries suck compared to the real high tech countries. (Judging from my IT Background) But that is mostly due to ridiculous taxes and levies on our income, dont get me started on the german bureaucrazy eating your last bit of sanity. If you can dont come here, rather go directly to the US or Switzerland/Luxembourg.

[@theteamxxx3142]

@@salzkasten it's because of salaries trust me if italy had germany salaries every italian would consider it the best place on earth but again it's always greener elsewhere and globalization makes us think that my country isn't doing well ? i can always go elsewhere something that was way harder 100 years ago (but people still did it in america )

[@kiraleskirales]

I am from Italy, now living in continental Europe. My experience is that prices are comparable, salaries are at least twice as high where I live. Most of my contacts still there barely survive with what they get from a full time job. Here, you can have opportunities as a young person. Responsibilities, consideration. In Italy, young people are exploited and feared. The old guard won't let you innovate, make mistakes, learn. They won't be challenged. If the population is old, Italian voters are even older. From politics to economics, from industries to families, all the power in society is in the hands of previous generations who don't really care about a future they will not see. I went away from Italy because there is no intention of building a better future for the country, no long term investment, no hope. Everyone just takes what they can before the whole country collapses.

[@matemayer4850]

where in Europe do you live now?

[@KayJay01]

FYI Continental Europe includes Italy. Continental Europe typically means Europe minus the UK, Ireland, Iceland and Scandinavia (and Finland), as in excluding the areas of Europe typically only accessed by sea.

[@matemayer4850]

@@KayJay01 I know what continental Europe means, but you didn’t answer the question which European country are you living now. Looks like you are avoiding a simple answer.

[@KayJay01]

@@matemayer4850 I’m not the same person you replied to, lol.

[@Gravity6210]

@@KayJay01maybe they lived in a island of off Italy. Hence why they used “continental Europe”.

[@MaggieDiMenna]

I‘m currently in my last year of university here in Milan, and I think the fact that Italy continues to lose its graduates is a big issue but I don’t see it getting fixed anytime soon. For example, my boyfriend studied as a programming engineer but did not end up taking a job in Milan because the pay is so low, he wouldn’t even be able to pay the monthly rent on a one bedroom apartment in Milan, however in Switzerland (Ticino) he makes 4x more than he would have in Milan and his rent is actually LESS than a similar apartment in Milan. Now that I’m looking for internships, I’m looking more towards Switzerland as well since in Italy most internships are not paid while in Switzerland they are.

[@johnsnow145]

It’s sad. I know so many people who went to university in Bologna. Not a single one would live in Italy. Or consider having family there. There’s very few young women that stay. Which means young men will also leave. There’s a massive immigration problem. The laws are too strict. The culture just doesnt seem to be like it was 20 years ago. It’s less Italian. I suggest the PM legalizes pot stores. That will attract many young educated American w/ Italian ancestors (and yes we care about Italy!) and stimulate the economy. And yes theres a lot of us here that would consider Italy if they would update their pot laws and create incentives for us. Otherwise let the Italians enjoy their new little Africa

[@nitishkumarjurel241]

​@@johnsnow145what are pot laws?

[@johnsnow145]

@@nitishkumarjurel241 medicinal marijuana. Similar to Amsterdam but would require a liscense to purchase at a designated pharmacy. Millions of young American men choose their school and work location based on access to this in USA already. It provides hundreds of million in state tax annually across the US. It also draws young employment from all over the country. It would be a big deal if Italy took part in this booming industry

[@nebwachamp]

College is useless in the field of useful applications of work.

[@lucyd.5001]

States where legal recreational marijuana has been approved@@nitishkumarjurel241

[@vladislavvelizanin5057]

Sounds a lot like Spain to me as well. A very developed economy with a high quality of living, but few possibilities for young people to work their way up to the top. Being a kid with well-to do parents, financially secure in their 40s-50s and with a plot of ancestral land, must be wonderful in either of this. Being old and retired in your villa is just the best experience in the world. Being a young parent without any property, looking to start your career, is literally almost impossible and definitely not worth it. That's why the birth rates are low and the young people are moving elsewhere.

[@misterx6209]

Also not easier in Austria right now except we have a very cold climate in winter.

[@lilolmecj]

Can it be accidental that every government world wide has been engaged in policies that are not in the best interests of their citizens for at least fifty years? Internationally every advanced country has undercut its own industries , cooperating with sending work off shore in a search for cheaper goods, with no long term interest in domestic stability.

[@worldpeace8187]

​@@lilolmecjI have only read a couple post so far but agree there seems to be a trend here. Why would these countries be so short sited?

[@alejandramoreno6625]

@@misterx6209 I remember a friend in Austria who said that the only way of getting a job as a pharmacist there was to marry into it. It seemed medieval to me.

[@obsidianjane4413]

You work your way to up when those above you die. You inherit your plot of land from those old relatives you take care of/put up with. This takes far more time than modern society accepts.

[@Skalvan91]

I left Italy almost 10 years ago, one week after graduated, and everything it's still the same as I left it, if not worse. The country is not in stagnation, it's hibernated!

[@tuscanland]

Lasciato l'Italia nel gennaio del 2000, ogni volta che torno vedo le cose peggiorate. Le paghe erano, a parita' di professione, maggiori negli anni 80/90, rispetto a quello che sono ora. Il parco macchine e il territorio ne sono i testimoni.

[@tyhg22]

the major influence on most aspects of Italian society is inertia

[@carssucksince1800s]

@@tuscanland The wages are lower in US as well, especially when taking inflation (greed) into consideration. I think Italy, while currently is not doing well in our economy, is actually ahead of the world in terms of what the future society will live like, where money don't matter. It is a utopia like idea that we can be productive without money and grow, but if we don't think of it in current economy dependent society, where certain players are hungry for more power, it would actually be feasible and more productive than it is today.

[@tuscanland]

Impara a esprimerti correttamente in inglese prima di sfoggiare la tua bravura. @@carssucksince1800s

[@antonyjh1234]

I left my country 35 years ago and it hasn't either, the same thing could be said about any country other than India and Africa are going to see growth population wise. 23 countries are going to lose 50% of their population by 2100 due to old age in a system that relies on growth. Italy started before everybody else. The older people could have their house paid off, a garden, friends, grandkids etc, poverty just because of a lack of spare money doesn't necessarily make you poor. * China is going to lose 5-600 million over the next 80 years

[@matteougolini-os7ux]

As an italian let me say thank you for this video. You reported properly the actual situation in the country. After graduated in college,many friends of mine and me moved to other european countries to have the chance to have a good life. Personally i tried to work in Milan but unfortunatelly the cost of living is too high compared to the wages. So,after six months i packed and moved to Ireland. I Hope so much the economy will recover in the next years but the low fertility rate and low productivity are not a good sign for the future

[@Joe-qu8uk]

I hope you did not end up in Dub in Amazon, Facebook or Google. Cause although the wages are high, that's slavery too.

[@andreachiari356]

Bro resta in Irlanda che vivi bene

[@zerothehero3426]

Non è che gli italiani siano non fertili è che semplicemente non mettono al mondo figli

[@revenants1300]

che commento italidiota @@andreachiari356

[@kissthetranslator4250]

Ciao ! Io purtroppo sono ancora bloccata in questo Paese del cavolo che è l'Italia, ho intenzione di trasferirmi all'estero e la mia prima scelta sarebbe proprio l'Irlanda. Come ti trovi ? Potresti fornire qualche dettaglio sulla vita lì ?

[@alessandrocerioli2151]

As many other members have pointed out as a matter of fact Italy stopped growing AFTER they abandoned the automatic wage actualisation in the 80s, today Italian companies expect new graduates to work FOR FREE so the spiral is indeed real but it works exactly in the opposite way this video tries to prove. No actualisation-> poorer workers-> employers want to pay new generations less-> consumes tumble-> people cannot afford to have children-> geriatric society-> the few young people are paid even less-> no children at all. This is how a country dies.

[@galactichitchhiker_]

Italy stopped to grow in the late '60, '70 were a lost decade and in the '80 the decline started, having inflation to 25% is bad for the industries, buying votes increased the debt is bad for public badget, a too low retire age will steal young people salary. Now is too late to do anything, sometimes countries die in flow of history.

[@alessandrocerioli2151]

@@galactichitchhiker_ you clearly don't have a clue about what you're talking about: in the 80s the Italian economy was bigger than the British one, the issue was that the people who enjoyed that boom have been in power since the early 90s and don't want to retire. They still think we are in the 80s and they are still proposing their failed economic model based on micro-enterprises, low to no R&D investments, low added value products, "black" work and salaries" compression to the point they expect people to work for free....and I ain't joking.

[@galactichitchhiker_]

@@alessandrocerioli2151 Using as example UK is wrong because they were in the '70 in a awful economic condition but thanks to Thatcher governments they reformed, in Italy never happened. In the '80 wasn't no economic boom: inflation to the roof, unemployment too, the only thing that was booming was the public debt. How a Italian company could made R&D in the '80 when the bank interest for a loan were over 18%, in Germany were 6-8%, was the apocalipse for all Italian big companies the ones that create innovation, competitiveness and high salaries.

[@alessandrocerioli2151]

@@galactichitchhiker_ I am talking about the 80s, and Thatcher left the UK is worse shape that she received in 1979. Everything that you write is BS, about Italy AND the UK.

[@galactichitchhiker_]

@@alessandrocerioli2151 You first said that UK was poorer than Italy in '80 but then that Thatcher ruined UK's economy but UK is now richer than Italy, something is wrong in your reasoning.

[@lookouthill11]

A cousin married an Italian woman and after speaking to her about work my mind was blown. She worked for her aunt, an office job, and hadn’t been paid for more than a year but said she could never speak to her aunt or anyone else at work about it. She lived with her parents so contributing to rent wasn’t expected. It blew my mind! She was just hoping one day soon they’ll start paying again.

[@ivansciacca7810]

My fiancé found a second job, because the first one she does not get paid from her father (even with a legal contract saying he should) but refuses to say anything about that. Italy is a magical place my friend...

[@Tribuneoftheplebs]

Thats worse than slavery. At least they were given food and a bed 🤣🤣 she gets literally nothing for full time labor

[@Laretz]

Yeah here in Italy we generally avoid talking about our earnings, it’s a huge taboo (probably because of the tax fraud committed by many, as the video shows)

[@vascoapolonio2309]

Working with family is not a good thing. Guilt and love always walk hand-in-hand, mostly in very religious and backwards countrys

[@Toothily]

One could consider that financial abuse, yikes

[@eddy6379]

Some of us (Italians) don't even understand our internal problems, but you did a great job from a macro prespective. It's worth subscribing to your Channel.

[@Ezekiel903]

he said the same about Spain, France, Germany, UK. beside that, not all can growth, if every country wants develop, were will build all the products? imagine if all countries on earth would growth, what would happen with resources, environment and were are the customer? in theory the developed countries alone could already provide enough for all, so if now other countries starts to manufacturing things too, who will buy all the stuff? or should we go back and every country protect their market by taxing foreign products?? unlimited growth is a myth!!

[@jasminehasan890]

@@eddy6379 most people in various countries don’t understand fully their internal problems…

[@MatteoAntonacci-en2kc]

Bro non credo che molti degli italiani che conosciamo sia te che io possano parlare di sapere dei nostri problemi interni, perché non è vero

[@LorenzoRace]

I'm Italian and regarding technological backwardness, I can tell you that at the University of Milan (one of the largest and most famous in Italy), researchers work with machines operating on Windows 95 (I swear). Not to mention the public administration, where employees don't even know how to move a file to the trash or create new folders.

[@Ezekiel903]

Swiss here, you know that Germans have surpassed the Italian in Swiss? every year more and more Germans are living their country, next France, they say the same about their country! but Italians are the worst when it comes to criticize their country. Why you think so many Germans are living Germany??

[@infinity-rh2je]

i'm italian and that's what my teacher made us learn last year when i was in my fiest year of high school

[@andres-gu8yu]

you would understand why this happen if you knew the cost of upgrading all those instruments. It is not only computer software, if you upgrade it, that electronic microscope might not be compatible with a newer version of an OS. As a small example, I upgraded my mac to a newer system and my scanner (Epson) stopped working. Epson does not make software for my beloved scanner anymore so what to do? buy a new scanner. Now scale up this to a University level.

[@jasminehasan890]

@@LorenzoRace my daughter was doing a PHD in Germany and they didn’t even have computers and everything was broken

[@FGPR01BrunoCauz]

Italians have a couple of good traits: they're adaptable (they're amongst the best integrated immigrants all around the world) and they perform really well during and right after a big crisis, cause the thing that matters the most to them is going back to the standard of living they had before (or improving it) that's why we did so well after WWII

[@CyriacS]

I work in the Middle East and I can confirm that I meet a higher than expected number of Italian expats relative to other nationalities... it's a shame that Italy can't break through its old ways. The country is so rich geographically and culturally...

[@askadia]

The problem of Italy, in my opinion, is the very high quantity of small companies that stay competitive only by exploiting workers: low salaries, many hours per week, and often unpaid overtime. They suck up workforce and resourses just to barely stay alive. In my opinion, people should stop working for a misery, and let those companies fail.

[@Theanimeisforme]

then what? hope the chaos gives you a good roulette roll?

[@askadia]

@@Theanimeisforme if you want to work as a modern slave, help yourself, it's all yours.

[@siegfriedvankonul3893]

@@askadia ah yes, because companies like Tesla or Amazon do not absolutely squeeze their workers to be even more rich Your "opinion" is garbage, keep it for yourself next time

[@Theanimeisforme]

@@askadia I guess when you're consumed and trapped by your own failure, your own lack of foresight, you may end up seeing the end result as slavery.

[@freakalmighty2533]

@@Theanimeisforme I don't understand how a human can respond to "companies are exploiting workers by paying them a pittance, sometimes not paying them at all" (which is a reality in Italy) in the way you've been responding so far.

[@coconuts2361]

Just an example of the "advanced economy" in Italy. To get my parking place in an underground city parking lot next to my home I had to personally visit four different city offices, bringing photocopies of all my documents, and filling up manually paper forms. In other european countries you do all of this online with one click. The Italian City Hall does not even have a list of residents - you must bring them a photocopy of your Id card which THEY themselves issued. They are beyond hopeless.

[@36flamingo63]

You ("first world") are too lucky... But a minimous part of the (real) World is like you are, and you are in good conditions certainly not only for your merit and ability, but just for your LUCK (exploited colonies, great availability of raw materials, vastness of space and possibilities). And the huge part "that has no hope" survives the DIFFICULTIES much better than you lucky ones.

[@lisette2060]

​@@36flamingo63quit the leftist blame game! Your colonies are still better off than the rest of a hopeless lazy and corrupt African societies.. Just start on your own, instead of leeching on hard working Whyte Mens achievements! Good luck 💪

[@NazriB]

Lies again? Jackal Wolf Driver Chauffeur

[@missouriresole4726]

Pretty much like Germany

[@bgdxmas]

And this is happening TODAY, when all former Central + East European countries are getting digital fast! Looks indeed beyond hopeless.

[@conversiamo]

I'm an Italian living abroad. I moved over 20 years ago. I work remotely and go back to my country quite often. There is a lot of wealth that escapes taxation and plenty of wealthy people who pay zero taxes. The amount of nice cars, houses, well dressed people and time spent on holiday and travelling by my compatriots tells a different story. It's true though that life is expensive and lots of young people find it impossible to move up the rankings of a small corporate structure, well described in this video. In bocca al lupo a tutti.

[@λ201]

U live in America or somewhere? Cuz these countries are not perfect either.

[@paolafr.9753]

Crepi il lupo

[@jasminehasan890]

@@conversiamo Italy is in the G7

[@conversiamo]

@@jasminehasan890 Thanks for the heads up. So what?

[@citizenoftheearth6]

I had a tiny business and was paying all of my taxes (contrary to the advice of my accountant). I was an immigrant in Italy and felt I should be more honest than the natives. I was making less than my workers. A successful dentist next door was paying less taxes than an average minimum wage person. It was known that in Italy, dentists and fur makers declare the smallest incomes and pay almost mo taxes. Financial police had scandals every month. That didn't stop them from visiting my small business at least twice a month. The dentist got NO visits.

[@chemicheto]

I studied my master's in italy with hopes of staying, however burocracy and elitism in the country make it way too hard for young foreigners to work in italy

[@scottandrews947]

Yeah, I received dual citizenship through my grandfather with the intention of living and working in Italy. Once I moved there, I quickly realized that it wasn't a great place for younger people (especially younger foreigners).

[@v1pogio118]

also for young italians to actually work in italy, majority of people including myself want to emigrate asap

[@maherprakash4725]

Yeah I agree I did the same and didn't stay there

[@SokiHime]

Good. Italy is for Italians.

[@gazo11]

yeah they prefer petting dogs instead of having child so italy is for africans now

[@posthocprior]

The GDP charts of France and Spain - only two examples - are very similar to Italy’s. That is, there has been a period of roughly 15 years of stagnation. The reason this may be important is that there may be a trend, among developed countries, of slowing economic growth and rising inequality. In other words, the problems that Italy’s economy faces may be faced by many developed economies.

[@Lubossxd]

agree with this. the growth for everyone can't go forever so only the most clever and the greediest will keep their momentum

[@KommentarSpaltenKrieger]

Even if you look at 'well-performing developed economies', they can't expect much growth even in the best of circumstances. And this has been true for decades. It is less talked about in everyday discourse than it should be, but it is absolutely acknowledged among economists, at least if we take notice of accounts such as that from Thomas Piketty. However, even small growth is highly preferable to no growth, so aiming for some of it will pay off if we let enough time pass. And even those with strong growth in a short time can be outcompeted by those with small but more sustainable growth if you let enough time go by.

[@jonathan2847]

​@@LubossxdYes it can, see the technological progress in the last decade.

[@thorH.]

@@jonathan2847you are right. US GDP is still growing. Germany mostly grew because of higher employment rates.

[@eVill420]

@@KommentarSpaltenKrieger Money is just one thing, having things in place, safety and infrastructure is also wealth. money not exchanging hands 0.4% more than last year doesn't have to be a bad thing. Even a country like France which has technicalyl been plateauing for 15 years the people have gotten wealthier thanks to technology

[@samuelpezzetta7084]

Visiting Italy is amazing. Living in Italy is hard.

[@MagicMike_101]

I agree. The country is in the pace to tourism become the first source. And sustain whoever works with it.

[@riccardob7774]

I guess you will have to specify what living in Italy means to you. Because cost of living in Italy is 1/4 of the US, you have (almost) free healthcare, no student loans, and you have access to some of the most beautiful cities in the world. Traveling in Europe is also cheaper than the US. So if you said just “living” I don’t think it is representative. If you’re talking about someone trying to work and pay rent in Milan, with two kids, maybe you’re right. But it is not representative of the whole.

[@coprilettodelnapoli5466]

​@@riccardob7774you can't compare Italy with three world country like usa, bro...

[@riccardob7774]

@@coprilettodelnapoli5466 Beh!, in certi casi l’America è parte del terzo mondo. Si vive meglio in Italia, fidati.

[@tarekben5524]

which is the stupidest thing ever. Like they could control weather and other natural events to keep the climate stable for profits. Sure.@@MagicMike_101

[@tattianasalles3019]

There is an Italian economist called Lorenzo Codogno who wrote a book about Italy's Economic Decline in the past 30 years. According Codogno research the decline of italian economy is related to the lack of meritocracy. Connections, rather than merit, are a long-standing feature of italian economy. This became a significant problem when Italy's economy could no longer grow due to imitation, devaluation, and public debt, and faced the challenges of becoming a frontier knowledge-based open economy, like Germany, Sweden, Netherlands and other European nations. I am from Brazil and everything I read about italian economic issues remember me our neighbors in Argentina. Brazil was never a developed country, but Argentina was once a very rich country which went into a slow and deep decline for reasons similar to the Italian ones.

[@aser39009]

No wonder that the majority of Argentinians are of Italian ancestry!

[@tattianasalles3019]

@@aser39009 Yep.

[@internetexplorer3999]

​@@aser39009 Argentina's problem was military governments, dictatorships and weak "democratic" governments, the population doesn't have much to do with that

[@internetexplorer3999]

Over the last 50 years, Brazil has been among the 8-10th largest economy in the world. How can it not be a developed country?

[@tattianasalles3019]

@@internetexplorer3999 Brazil's GDP per capita has never been high. Chile has twice the per capita income of Brazil. Argentina has a higher GDP per capita than Brazil even though it has been a disaster for 70 years. Brazil grew during the 1930s-1980s from a very low income level.

[@marcobonesi6794]

italian here. The main problem is the decrepit demography. All the other problems are just a consequence. High unemployement because we have to pay massive taxes to pay the mostly undeserved pensions of the elders that are also too many,high debt because most voters won't be alive when we'll be forced to pay it back and uncompetitive economy because even most workers are in their 50s and their way of thinking is usually outdated and in fact the hate technological progress because they do not understand it. In fact the reduced control over our currency is a blessing ,because the government can't print money like in argentina. In the end,italy is the proof that a democracy with universal suffrage ,elderly voters and too many people that live off public expenditure is not sustainable.

[@SkylearJ]

Thus why we like republics.

[@S.Fortunato]

Non avrei saputo spiegarlo meglio, il problema è che non cambierà nulla, la maggioranza degli elettori sono vecchi e votano per i loro interessi, mentre i pochi giovani rimasti pensano ad andare all'estero prima che la barca affondi.

[@marcobonesi6794]

@@S.Fortunato i primi anni 30 saranno bestiali. Andrà in pensione la generazione nata fra il 65/75. La più numerosa di sempre in italia. Collasserà tutto allora,perchè avremo troppi pensionati .

[@MsMimo07]

Yeah, Europe is doomed^^ I'm German but I don't plan on spending the rest of my life here paying the pensions of the oder generations while getting nothing in return.

[@hobbes1887]

Amen, bro.

[@BG-ej5fy]

I recently visited Italy and I had the best time of my life. Such a beautiful country with great food and great people. I hope it turns it around economically

[@dagmarvandoren9364]

Visit. Not living.....and you had the funds. To visit....also Taylor swift.....you did not need to work there.....danke

[@hexgraphica]

We're pretty much maxed out economically without some extra ordinary source of wealth (oil, capital, manufacturing monopoly...). We'd need to move on socially first but the fear of making some wealthy pensioner cry holds us hostages

[@Antreus]

@@hexgraphica the problem with pensioners reminds me of the classic painting of Saturn Devouring His Son

[@MarkSchneider-q6e]

Tourism is not the same living in a country , pay taxes need public services etc

[@MarkSchneider-q6e]

@@dagmarvandoren9364exactly I hate tourist who thinks they know the economy and life in a country after an one week trip

[@natetabormusic]

Trying to start a new business in Italy is incredibly difficult. The tax sytem is so complicated and riciculous, its no wonder that most business simply go into the grey market. I am a violin maker, which is the second oldest profession in Italy, and even a tiny little business with one employee really could not exist and expand if everything was done properly. Most small business simply move to another E.U country with a less barbaric tax system. etc. Its actually quite sad.

[@commenter4190]

it's not the italian tax system who is "barbaric" (see the scandinavian level of taxes before talking about Italy), it's the italians who when they can, they ALWAYS try to NOT PAY the taxes!

[@StefSubZero270]

@@commenter4190 Clown comment, you must not live in Italy i guess, either that or you are just running your mouth for no reason

[@natetabormusic]

@@commenter4190 well try and start a small business in Italy. just see how that goes. GOOD LUCK! haha

[@tann_man]

@@commenter4190 It is everyone's moral imperative to when they can NOT have their labor forcibly confiscated by goons with guns. Everyone should be more like the Italians.

[@dinosgura]

@@commenter4190 I suspect you're the usual italian leftist that is trashing our beatiful country with the usual bs about "tax evasion".

[@cesq]

As an Italian, this video is insanely accurate and the curious thing is that almost none of us can see the situation as clear as you did. Common mindset here is "everything sucks, take what you can in any way" or leave. And I relate with all the comments around here

[@ifyouloveChristyouwillobeyhim]

The correct grammar is, "As an Italian, I can say that this video is. . ." or "As an Italian, I find this video. . ."

[@cesq]

@@ifyouloveChristyouwillobeyhim sorry about that, I'm learning english by myself and sometimes I make mistakes. Thank you for the correction :)

[@ifyouloveChristyouwillobeyhim]

You are semplicemente bravissimo! Very smart! Keep learning! :) @@cesq

[@Nagria2112]

this truely shows that high GDP doesnt mean money for people. it just means Value is created, NOT how its shared between all people

[@tubularmonkeymaniac]

Isn't it wonderful reading about a 'resurgent' economy, lower unemployment, and 'higher than expected' growth while most of us are still struggling to pay for fuel. It's become completely meaningless. We need a Quality of Life index to aim for, not an arbitrary growth figure.

[@sitaroartworks]

In fact we are the worst european country in terms of salaries and underpaid rates but hey, what is counting for the politicians right now is to tell to the rest of the world that employment is better than the past year. It's the naive, limited vision that they wants to keep that makes the difference once you live in and know about.

[@cochazza]

Yep, just think about the messina strait bridge. It already cost italy millions and millions of preliminary study, only study, not even survey nor preparatory work. This because the project has been done and redone multiple times by different subjects who where more "friends" to the then-appointed government. And all of this (and many similar instances) still goes into the GDP

[@CMVBrielman]

16:45 There’s a story that, at one point, Naples was the de facto boot capital of the world (ignore the geography pun), producing the most premium boots anywhere. According to the tax records though, not a single boot was made in Naples. Take the story for what you will, but it is demonstrative.

[@vicesig]

Purses too. But they did not own the brands, so everything was made through the big firms name that gave the artisan job to small indipendent laboratories that took little from the chain of value.

[@jamesmoore381]

What year/s?

[@swoppydo3794]

it could havee happened anywhere...

[@lemorragia87]

As an italian in my late-thirties, living in one of the most productive part of italy (and of europe) i say "good" (aka "f**k it"). I'm completely exhausted and frustrated by continuous short-sighted policies always aimed at "today's satisfaction" by selling out our future. It's been going on from the 80's, but the overall theme is always "let's not worry about tomorrow's problems". Last years "reddito di cittadinanza"(kind-of-a-UBI-the-italian-and-populist-way) and "110%" (a real estate law aimed at keeping up the economy post-covid) were crazy expensive and completely insane/populist-driven. They created a crazy market situation which persists even now: inflation is skyrocketed as well as house prices(and basically everything else), all of this in an environment where we have the highest taxation in europe (oecd-data, higher than norway if i remember correctly), the wages from 1990 have gone down (unique country in europe with this problem, also oecd data), and the welfare state is slowly (but surely) being diminished by the fact that we struggle with our debt and decades of "living beyond our actual means". So pensions are probably "won't existent" for young people (and me...they are already talking about pensioning age above 75 years in the future), public healthcare is being slowly privatized, etc. This means that in a few years/possibly a couple of decades we will theoretically have the highest taxation ever (compounded with the ageing population), almost no public service, and most of the brightest people will have migrated elsewhere in the world...good luck having italians paying for that, i'm sure they're not gonna do it and we will have to be bailed out...shame, shame, shame on us. I'm in IT and you wanna know a statistic? we had a university-class dinner at some point, and we were 28 at the table...26 of them are now living abroad. I could give a hundred examples like this...in the end i'm not blaming "the government" as many people do...the government is just a mirror of people mindset...it's our "no worry about problems/tomorrow" mentality at large, the real problem....we'll see. Good luck italy! You sure won't have my children for this massive ponzi-scheme!

[@redsandokan]

mamma mia, gia mi sentivo deppresso sta mattina, pero hai 100% rag

[@marcorabbione3765]

Being in your same situation I 100% agree, expecially your view on where the problems stand. Politicians are just a reflection of who we are.

[@rscaht]

Siamo costretti abituati ad analizzare le nostre pene e le nostre colpe che un discorso lucido come questo pare ovvio . Ma è solo un'analisi , solo una ... Crederci è quanto mai pericoloso .

[@1370802]

There are lesser versions of all these problems throughout the developed world. I think the root cause is that as people live longer, the elderly vote for politicians that support them at the cost of young people, so young people get screwed over the most.

[@lucalorusso813]

Bravo, sei capace di scrivere in inglese, ma non sei capace di capire che il RDC è l'ultimo dei problemi di un crollo cominciato 15 anni fa. Vivete di slogan, siete parte del problema.

[@StefanoBorini]

As an Italian who has left for a foreign country, the reason why I left is way more fundamental than cost of living, salary, and work quality. It's because the whole country, from its government to the public administration to the citizens, humiliated and keeps humiliating me and many other people like me. They humiliate our skills, our willingness to be entrepreneurial, and our desire to push forward. There's only so much humiliation you can take before you tell them to get lost and drown in their obsession for mediocrity and control, as you jump on a plane and never turn back.

[@jasminehasan890]

@@StefanoBorini good luck. You really need it!

[@MatteoAntonacci-en2kc]

Ma smettila zio☠️ cosa ci guadagni a dare disinformazione me lo spieghi? Tutti dovrebbero sapere che non è vero

[@johnsmith2136]

​@@MatteoAntonacci-en2kc È la sua esperienza personale, magari non è vera per tutti ma per lui è vera.

[@relocatetoEUROPE]

Thanks for having the courage to say this and I completely agree

[@MatteoAntonacci-en2kc]

@@relocatetoEUROPE zio☠️

[@JuanSanchez-rb4qu]

You forgot a KEY factor here which is Italy's really high tax rate compared to other countries even in the eurozone. This is why there's so much tax evasion, its not just culture but the fact that which such high taxes you can't even break even let alone make a profit. This is what Laffer's curve is all about, if taxes are too high people stop paying them, its that simple.

[@ugolattanzio9152]

Problem is, this creates a loophole. People don't pay taxes because of their heaviness > taxes raise even more for those who pay regularly

[@JuanSanchez-rb4qu]

@@ugolattanzio9152 Yes, however the way to counter this is lowering the taxes while raising the fines for tax evasion to reverse this trend.

[@AtmaGoa]

THANK YOU @@JuanSanchez-rb4qu

[@27Nets]

I kindly and respectfully disagree with this because with those heavy taxes rates come services you have to pay for in other countries or don’t have at all. The problem is the money is not entering the system through where it should, which is the bigger business. Working for a multinational in Italy still pays like in the 90s. For them giving a 50% or even a 100% to all employees would be almost negligible. The problem preventing that to happen is a medieval like culture where the company “owner” is the lord and owns the life the employees. And that culture is protected by decades of politics that protect who has a lot of money while they completely avoid any room for change for the middle and lower class.

[@TheFuschiaDragonfly]

The fact that if you want to start an independent business bc if you make enough money (aka: 700 euros monthly 💀) you'll have to pay an insane tax... this country is actually a communist dream: nobody can get rich.

[@tuqe]

If an economy requires workers to be constantly disadvantaged (ie unpinned wages) for it to achieve its goals, then one must ask if that economy is serving its purpose at all (considering that workers make up the vast majority of people in a society)

[@Ometecuhtli]

Talk about it... that's been the common theme in Mexico for decades now, much like the old Meshica the country is demanding its population to sacrifice themselves to keep the sun god alive (aka foreign investment).

[@johnhoo6707]

There are no workers without an economy, because there’d be no reason to produce goods to distribute.

[@piage84]

Welcome to capitalism, baby

[@jeffb.140]

@@piage84*socialism

[@piage84]

@@jeffb.140 so capitalism doesn't rely on people getting low pay to allow companies to be more profitable. Right. When did you move to Fantasyland? Is it nice over there?

[@pasqualescarmozzino9876]

This is perfectly on point. In my opinion Italy is almost impossible to reform since everyone has a rent of some sort in the status quo. Any reform would mean losing the private rent with the risk of not being compensated from the possible gains brought by more growth. Add in the risk aversion of a mostly old population and you can see why it's hard to exit this bad equilibrium.

[@RaggamuffinFreeGranp]

Yes I think you made a point. But if nobody will crack the status quo, it will crumble under the wheels of history

[@knightheaven8992]

@@RaggamuffinFreeGranp its going to happen, and its not unique to italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece have very similar problems

[@justineseiferth8010]

​@@RaggamuffinFreeGranp What will that crumbling result in though? An economy like India or Niger? Will regulation's fall by the wayside and the EU set the country aside? There will be a revolution, eventually, but in what form? I can see Northern Italy divorcing itself from the south personally and the south becoming like it's neighbors to the east.

[@tommyfanzfloppydisk]

@@justineseiferth8010 i think governments need to be remembered that even if most eu countries citizens refuse violence, we are still the continent where revolutions took places during monarchy times.

[@RaggamuffinFreeGranp]

@@justineseiferth8010 I don't think a revolution will come, just a progressive loss of all the wealth and welfare our grandparents fought for. Italians are famous to get through difficult times with courage and ingenuity ('arte di arrangiarsi'), but the social tissue we have been building for decades will be torn apart and everybody will be on their own

[@angelomariano9494]

IT'S NOT THE TAXES, BUT THE PEOPLE. As an Italian, who just spent one year in JAPAN, when I compare ROME to TOKYO, I see for the latter: clean streets, great pride in doing any kind of work, respect for other people properties, courtesy in offices and stores, etc.

[@Groove838]

Japan demographics are even worse than that of Italy.

[@dualfluidreactor]

Yeah but if you only had japanese peiple in italy, italy wouldn't be italy

[@robcig]

I just spent a week in Rome, I know what you mean.

[@slyan1]

@@dualfluidreactor maybe that s not a bad thing

[@mirzayevfakhri]

Ah yes japan the greatest example of an economy. Where everybody's working non-stop yet gdp is still not growing.

[@lalatinavegana]

I currently live in Italy with my partner and it is very difficult for me to find a job. I have met other high level skilled immigrants who are also struggling. There is no minimum wage, low pay and a lot of people don't want to offer you a contract. If the employer offers you a contract, they have to pay taxes, so a lot of people (including Italians) work nero. I used to live in London, where a lot of young Italians live. Most young italians are leaving because the lack of job opporunities and pay here. The only reason my boyfriend accepted a job back in Italy is because he was fresh out of school from the UK and Italy was the only country in Europe/UK that offered him a job in his specific field. I love the country, but it has a very broken economic system.

[@MarkSchneider-q6e]

I’m immigrant too and I believe we have to be realistic. Why one immigrant expect receive more than the locals?

[@bigmacdaddy1234]

Work remotely - get a job in a US company. Problem solved.

[@des_moines840]

Will you move back to Lindon soon? That was a trap that many italian companies use. I was tricked the same way when I finished my master in France

[@UvstudioCaToronto]

Just because the label says "Made In Italy", it doesn't always mean it was made in Italy. Fashion brands are known to have their products made in Eastern Europe, and only sew the labels onto the clothes in Italy to qualify for the "Made In Italy" label.

[@artman12]

The “Swiss” chocolate- Toblerone- recently switched their production to Slovakia.

[@badluck5647]

The premium is for the brand label anyway.

[@asdasdasddgdgdfgdg]

​@@artman12i just checked and only a part of the production will happened in Slovakia.

[@auraguard0212]

That's very funny. X3

[@NewmaticKe]

The label, or the sole bearing the mark is made in Italy

[@h-7-266]

Italy is the best example of why economic growth and quality of life are not related. Things started going down bad right when the economy started to grow exponentially in the 90's. Thank you Berlusconi and the crazy privatization of everything, that leaded us into extreme poverty just to draw a line that goes up

[@freakalmighty2533]

That's cause economic growth is typically measured by GDP. If you and I make up the entire economy of "100", the GDP would remain the same if we had 50 each or if I had 100. Just another outdated Capitalist way of measuring the "success" of a society unfortunately.

[@Random17Game]

it was after the Berlusconi left that things started going downhill, what are you talking about?

[@freakalmighty2533]

@@Random17Game what's the VR you've been plugged into for the last 30 years called? I want a holiday from reality too

[@h-7-266]

@@Random17Game Parlo dei tagli alla sanità, all' istruzione, alle riforme sulle pensioni e sul lavoro, al blocco delle opere pubbliche e all' iper finanziamento ai privati. Per non parlare di come ha cambiato il modo di fare politica relegandoci alla scelta di fenomeni da baraccone che giocano a fare i governanti come dei ragazzini delle elementari giocano a fare gli astronauti

[@monkeypix7285]

Se sapessi la storia della politica italiana, sapresti che stai dicendo baggianate. Guarda chi è stato davvero a privatizzare tutto in Italia negli anni 80 e 90... Il nostro caro amico banchiere Draghi

[@Nick-rs5if]

I've read and seen reports from the Allies during WW2 about Italian vehicles, weapons and especially tanks that, while the equipment in question was often sub-par to their Allied counterparts in terms of function and utility. Due mostly to the lagging industry focused mainly on craftsmanship over mass production. The equipment and components were always praised for being made to a very high standard in both quality and durability. That we still hear about Italian quality to this day is indicative of a rich tradition and culture of skilled craftsmanship. Something anyone ought to be proud of, in my opinion. Italy is such a beautiful country. I hope their future will be bright.😊

[@francisstjohn2194]

Grazie! For the good wishes. Despite the name I'm Italian living in Italy.

[@giansala7409]

Thank you friend !

[@ThomasZadro]

Thanks for this. It is a blessing to hear about Italy's problems without hearing once that it is all Germany's fault (a narrative that is often driven by Italian populists). Anyhow, Italy is a fantastic country with immense potential and - god knows how - always find a way. This is one of the reasons I admire this country.

[@m-faccin]

Come to visit our country. Please 😁

[@Oceansta]

Italian narrative is that it's Germany s fault? How? 😅

[@churblefurbles]

@@Oceansta EU is pure distortion.

[@eVill420]

@@Oceansta because deflecting from your problems and inventing opposition is a classic trick rulers use

[@marcoac-sx6lq]

@Oceansta because Euro favours German export while it's a too strong currency for the Italian economy. So Germany became richer while Italy poorer due to the common currency, as well as other European laws

[@scacchiereglobale]

As an italian, I appreciate this video 🙃. I think the problems now are worse than in the past...

[@hariskhan01]

Italy is still an awesome country and way better than my country Pakistan and of course most developing economies, but at least in growing economies we have more opportunities, Italy can bounce back on tourism and Automation is the only way to growth for a declining populace.

[@theethicsofliberty4642]

If what the Government collects from taxes is not enough to sustain the government why not shrink the government reducing government spending. Is it a sin to shrink the government reducing its weight on the economy, cutting of red tape, reducing cost of living. These alternatives are almost never debated due to the insistence on expanding the Government Social Welfare System.

[@vbrotherita]

@@scacchiereglobale As a fellow countryman expat in a bordering country, I second that.

[@scacchiereglobale]

@@casumarzu-fr2zn no, italian from Italy

[@scacchiereglobale]

@@vbrotherita 👍 Svizzera?

[@beadnick6394]

I've lived in Italy for the greater part of this century. The problem is that the government has totally alienated the entrepreneurial class here. They are over-burdened with both taxation and bureaucracy to the point that they would rather shutter their once thriving businesses, than to essentially work as slaves to the State. Just to give you a common example of how ridiculous things are in this regard: If you live in a private home with a driveway leading to either a garage or parking space on your own property, you have to pay a tax for a permit to park there. Not only is the tax over 100 euro per year, you have to pay a "geometra" to draw up plans of your driveway and gate, and your gate has to be automatic in order for you to qualify. Why? Because you have to cross the "public" sidewalk in front of your house, in order to enter your driveway from the street. If you don't pay this tax, you are subject to random checks by the local police and fines in the forms of tickets that come in the mail for over 40 euros a pop. Businesses, too, who have driveways, have to pay even a higher fee. There are hundreds of superfluous taxes just like this one, that not only drive people out of business, they drive them out of the country!

[@brunacardoso5887]

thank u for speaking out about this. I'm a teenager from Italy and here there's nothing for me, especially with the new government (Meloni) who took away even the few economic bonuses we used to buy school supplies. I already decided that as soon as I finish school I AM MOVING. It's hard to survive with a full time job as a young adult, they don't take us seriously cause their mentality it's still 80's-like, when your parents could afford to help you out if they wanted to. The school system it's even worse. Last week a 14 year old threw himself out the school's window because of the stress he was feeling. I personally study every day at least 6-7 hours a day (after school hours) and still get called a failure by my teacher's who are absolutely terrible (professionally). It's all going downhill and sadly I think my beloved country is never recovering.

[@francescomasiero7285]

Guarda che le tasse alte che ci sono attualmente in Italia stanno venendo utilizzate per recuperare il debito pubblico e per finanziare nuovi progetti, attualmente l'economia italiana è in netta crescita

[@kaiser96sose]

​@@francescomasiero7285mi sa che non viviamo nello stesso paese. La netta crescita non c'è assolutamente. Consulta dati attendibili. Le tasse sono alte perché abbiamo uno dei più alti tassi di evasione al mondo. Non c'è nessun rilancio economico.

[@francescomasiero7285]

@@kaiser96sose Eppure l'Istat dice che l'evasione è calata e che l'economia è cresciuta

[@TainyT888]

The new italian generation Is mostly woke.

[@TainyT888]

​@@francescomasiero7285😅

[@DaniloDurante]

What to add to this lucid, constructive and sad analysis? As an Italian (expatriate) I can only appreciate this video. Thank you very much for explaining the situation so well!

[@phlave]

I would like to add one thing that's not been talked about: one of the reasons we're in this situation in Italy is the consequence of a very deliberate strategy acted upon for decades to "combat socialism". Italy used to have incredibly good nationalized industries and social services. These have been gradually eroded from the inside with embezzlement and deliberate tactics to lower the value of said companies, to then sell them for pennies to privates. Our highways, railways and telecom services have been privatized with the excuse of lowering public debt, and have actually tried doing so with education and health as well.

[@francescotellini1389]

👏👏👏

[@QNEGRO1]

True

[@Lemuria1993]

This one knows what he's talking about

[@castronator-mu3ye]

Are you implying that if they were public It wouldnt be as corrupt (or even more)? And all that with public money, which makes things even harder...

[@puertousbmonkey]

competition is good. Private sector is the only way to real economic growth and the end of poverty

[@SimoNe-lc6rr]

You described italian economic and financial problems as an italian specialist would have done. I never saw anything like that made by a foreigner. Congratulations on your data collection and elaboration.

[@VCC1316]

Nah, the Italian specialist would have said that the small companies are the diamond of the Italian's economy (that is the consoling narrative). While here it is shown how they are a drag

[@magnuszerum9177]

A robust black market is a sign of too many taxes and regulations.

[@riffrff]

I think the video forgot a very important side effect of the EU. Italian companies moved abroad. Mediaset/MediaForEurope (probably the largest media group in Europe), is now a Dutch company. Stellantis (AKA FCA+PSA, AKA FIAT+Peugeot, one of the largest car companies in the world) is now a Dutch company. STMicroelectronics (french-italian company, one of the largest chip manufacturers in Europe), is now a Dutch company. As long as the Netherlands provide low tax rates (plus loop holes) and different-weighted stocks, moving there is advantageous for the holdings. At the same time, it is advantageous for the actual factories to move east-ward to cheaper workforce. It is hard to counteract this without getting in a race to the bottom, tho off course there is a lot Italy could do (e.g. improve its judicial system).

[@simaancheno]

Poverty in the Mediterranean area is by design. Most of the arguments in this video are BS. Big companies are the ones evading taxes, for instance.

[@frank_zapping]

It Is a shame that Ue doesnt make anything to stop fiscal dumping !

[@000miami8]

👏👏100% agree

[@des_moines840]

Ferrero and Ferrari as well😅

[@sawftlesschannel7773]

The part about the lacklustre adoption of technology in Italy and the differences around the world got me thinking about if the adoption of technologies is as great of a boon for economies as statistics make them out to be, what happens to the countries that are technologically advanced in most parts, but conduct the mundane parts of their business in an old-fashioned way? There are some things I've seen and read about Japan and how they are still using tech that is even decades behind the current level in a comparable economy, and that kinda got me wondering how much they and any other country doing things as they do are missing out on economic growth, especially when the valuable workforce is diminishing year by year.

[@RarebitFiends]

Yeah from what I understand banking in Japan currently feels like banking in the US in the late 1990s with the amount of things that must be done in person/on paper, the lack of emphasis (and in some cases availability) of online banking, etc.

[@jacobcampbell6005]

I wonder how much it has to do with the aging population issue. Japan was 1st and Italy 3rd on that list of oldest populations in this video, after all. Any young person has experienced the annoyance of their parents and grandparents insisting on paying with coins at a store, or refusing to do something on their phone in 30 seconds and instead spending two hours doing it in person or on paper. A country like Japan adopts a lot of aspects of technology, but if so much of their population is elderly they may end up catering to the tastes of the elderly

[@yogsothoth00]

Is it actually causal? It could be that booming economies have the luxury of investing in technology and it doesn't actually help all that much

[@ac1455]

In a way that’s a good thing if they’re behind tech wise but still produce that much, since it just means they have room to grow if they just better integrate modern technologies.

[@Obyvvatel]

Japanese businesses are very slow to pivot due to cultural reasons. you can feel it if you work in a company, not in Japan, with the HQ in Japan

[@PierSilver]

As an Italian, I'm very happy to have another video on my country ^^

[@Azmodaeus49]

Italy is a beautiful country, but...economically has issues

[@jakehandley3366]

@@Azmodaeus49economically.. politically.. socially..

[@enricocasali895]

😂

[@WonderBroadcast]

@@Azmodaeus49 yet people live very well in Italy, perhaps it has economic problems but not so catastrophic. For example, the average salary is 2627 EUR/ Month and the cost of living is lower than other countries

[@nussnougat5462]

@@WonderBroadcast that is, if you find a job.

[@max020981]

As an Italian, there are very complex answers for all points raised. A quick answer for the downfall of our economy would be split between “Europe” and “truly incompetent political classes” for the past 20 years or so. Willing to go a bit more into details, corruption as well as lack of planning, plus a savage and uncontrolled immigration played a pivotal role in the disaster we live in today.

[@metzgergine]

The wage price spiral... as if crippling your workers is absolutely not going to cripple the economy... we really need to get over the raw numbers held by a small number of companies that don't pay the population well...

[@robertmartin6800]

Well, crippling the economy will _definitely_ cripple the economy, so avoiding that price spiral is a reasonable goal.

[@gabbon7723]

The majority of firms that don't pay or delay the paycheck are SME in low value added services or industry.

[@seeingthought]

Wage price spiral is a myth. IMF even confirmed it's non-existence recently. This is old news. Marx also debunked this back in his debating days when arguing with a carpenters union leader. Wages ~catch up~ to inflation.

[@mlx8898]

As an Italian this video seems quite fair and very good made. At least, as you said, the "made in Italy" (as products labeled made in a specific country) is something that only Italy has achieved in the whole world but it's not enough for the grown of the economy

[@Dudarinho]

are you sure? made in Japan, made in Germany, made in USA is way cooler

[@francisdrake7060]

​@@DudarinhoFerrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Gucci, Fendi, Armani and so on, the Italian design is the best in the world, everybody knows this.

[@Dudarinho]

​@@francisdrake7060 oh true, these are the most popular and only demanded goods in the world, population consumption ends on italian luxury cars and cloth 🤦

[@aldotanca9430]

@@Dudarinho He never said that though. He said design, and it is true that Italy is quite unique for that. It is a selling point worldwide, and to an extent that applies to Italian food too. Made in Japan was for a long time synonim with good electronics, nowadays a bit less because production has shifted. Made in Germany was again for a long time a synonim with quality and mechanical solidity, for vehicles mainly. Made in Switerland was traditionally associated with high quality watches and, because of Zeiss, optics. But Made in USA? You are making it up, are you not? There are some niche markets for which made in USA is appreciated worldwide, but they are brand specific and surely they are not "most popular and only demanded goods in the world" (Fender Statocaster made in USA, a staple in every household?). Made in US can be a selling point in some central american and south american countries by comparison with certain ranges of local products. But besides that, Made in the USA is a selling point only.. well, in the USA? It is an internal political thing, not a quality thing.

[@brb4903]

Zeiss is not Swiss lol@@aldotanca9430

[@amraceway]

It is a gross simplification to say big companies are easier to tax than small companies. Large multinational companies have turned tax minimization into a fine art and often attract large government subsidies as they often play one government off against another.

[@nicknickbon22]

From an Italian perspective I can say that there is a big advantage of dealing with a large company: it doesn’t vote in local elections. So you’re basically 1v1, politics vs company and as politics you have the power to make life difficult to a company without too much worrying. The problem is when you have to deal with millions of very very small unproductive companies. Just imagine saying, ok we want to make it easier to form large corporations and more difficult to stay small, because as said in the video large means more productive. Nobody is going to vote you, because nobody who is small and unproductive wants to be out of business because of this. The problem is that there are a lot of people employed in small and unproductive businesses and this means a lot of voters. It is valid for companies, it is valid for taxi drivers for instance, even if they’re 40000 people they can easily influence municipal elections (just think about families dependent on that income) where licenses numbers are decided and they can influence national politics by blocking roads if someone proposes a liberalization program for the sector. I could make other examples like this, the point is that the combination of universal suffrage and a huge unproductive population that does not want to change is a good recipe for stagnation. (I’m not saying universal suffrage is bad, I won’t live in this country if it weren’t a democracy, but this is a matter of fact).

[@amraceway]

@@nicknickbon22 It all depends on how large companies are regulated. In the end it is the quality of lifestyle provided to the average person. Being efficient can reduce meaningful employment. Why change to something which offers less? The beauty of Italy is its historic nature and social engagement.

[@nicknickbon22]

@@amraceway well, let me say that if lots of young people are going abroad and not so many people from other European countries are moving into (even Romanian and Albanians, who migrated here in the 90s are returning home or moving to other eh countries) , the quality of lifestyle is not perceived as good as in other neighboring countries. I mean, the point is that higher wages doesn’t mean only more money into you bank account: it means being considered more as a person having skills, it is being put in a workplace where you can express your ability or developing your ideas with little constraints, it is being in an environment that it is culturally active (Geneva spends 20% of its taxes on culture for example ) and where there are always interesting events to see and to participate. I don’t mean that there is none of this here, but the thing is that, in neighboring countries where it easy to migrate to if you have skills and language knowledge , there is more of it. Even work life balance in Italy is partially a myth: Italians work on average 450-500 hours more than Germans, for the very simple things that German are on average more productive (because they are more technologically advanced) and so they can actually work less to earn more than us.

[@JWentu]

Imagine if, in your country, people in a supermarket were constantly stealing from everywhere: a tomato here, an egg there, a bottle of wine, a large chunk of meat, a fish here, a jar of honey there... at least half of the customer of the supermarket are stealing in plain sight. Instead of being reported as thieves, these people are met with applause, cheering, appreciation.. because they just managed to "get some revenge from the evil supermarket that is asking for money for what it is selling". Well, in Italy that's tax evasion. At least half of the people are evading their taxes and the rest of the people is just appreciating that as if it were a great feat of cunning. Years ago a colleague during lunch was laughing and bragging "I managed to by the furniture for my newborn baby's room at an enormous discount by just saying it was furniture for my office"... because of course there's a discount on buying furniture if you are doing it for your profession. Instead of being disgusted by this subtraction of money from the common good, all the other colleagues were just enthusiastic... "how smart of you, way to go!". These idiots were just so happy that the guy didn't pay part of his taxes... they were just unable to see that these were less money for the schools of their children. This is absolutely normal in this country of idiots, thieves and criminals. They'll tell you "evading taxes is unavoidable since taxes are so high", but these guys, strangely enough, huh, are all those people that CAN evade taxes because they have to declare how much they earn in an year and of course they can cheat on that. They are not stupid, they know they can't be caught and they take advantage of the situation... they know they can say "taxes are too high", but everyone can see taxes are too high, but taxes are THAT high because half of the people don't pay their due. "Something terrible is happening in Italy"... that's been happening since ages ago.

[@simonagiraldo2840]

Un paese che per nominarlo ti devi prima accuratamente sciacquare la bocca...possibilmente non con l'alcool di cui siete abituali consumatori... Ma capisco che vi serve per dimenticare la vita triste e squallida che siete costretti a fare.

[@vash47]

thanks for sharing

[@73Mike73]

​@@simonagiraldo2840 per quanto si debba sciacquare la bocca ha pienamente ragione e condivido ciò che dice. Non puoi venirmi a dire che la gente non evade le tasse, non puoi venirmi a dire che non gente è onesta e non cerca sempre di fotterti. Che sia Milano, Firenze, Roma o Napoli le persone cercano sempre di evadere le tasse. Come dice lui le tasse sono alte perché molte persone non le pagano, e lo stano per garantire dei servizi deve avere un afflusso di denaro. Se ognuno facesse la propria parte i servizi sarebbero migliori anche con una tassazione inferiore.

[@73Mike73]

As italian i can say you are right, but we are not all idiots and thiefs. Who evade taxes usually do that because they have a salary that don't let them to pay a basic lifestyle. Imagine that you take 1200 euros and your apartment costs 700 euros and you spent 200-300 euros only for eating. If you want to have a small social life and do something with friends one time a week you spend 150-200 euros (this money are calculated in a month). And this is actually the lifecost if you are single and with no children. So, why Italians don't make children? Why Italians don't pay all the taxes? Why Italians go out of Italy? We are in that situation because who is honest have to pay also for people who are not, and the government can't find a solution. Our parents and grandparents in 70s and 80s destroyed this country, and my generation is paying for that. Lot of people prefers to live in others country because can't see a future here. I could continue to write for hours about the problems and why we are in that funny situation

[@robertogiovanelli1709]

They got no money to pay that's why Rich people do not pay taxes in right way Rich people Is the problem and not only in Italy Please wash your sewer mouth before to offend us

[@ilmaurizetazetaerre]

the GDP you plotted and argued about is on (possibly) nominal figures and in US$. if you adjust for inflation and take into account the relation between italian/european currency and dollars, you can clearly see that our economy has actually been stagnating since the early 2000s. The rapid growth you talk about in the late 2000s (in nominal figures) is only the combination of the most anemic growth among eurozone countries and the late 2000s euro appreciation over the dollar. Back in those days you could get over1.5$ with 1€

[@MagnusvonYoshi]

1€ kinda looks like a : ( sad face

[@pietrobottan2355]

I am currently studying at the polytechnic of milan (arguably the best university in Italy) and I am looking for a summer internship. I can't litteraly find one, it's not that they are hard to get or are very few, there are just no opportunities. If a student wants to start working in important companies earlier than it's peers he just can't and his carrer will inevitably lag behind in comparison to his foreign peers. In this situation even if I love my country I am forced to leave it and I am not even talking about the massive wage gap and working conditions

[@des_moines840]

Same as when I was studying in cattolica

[@solinvictus1234]

Italy sadly never recovered from the blow that speculator of Soros did in 1992, betting against the Lira, where the Politics of that era didn't de-evaluating the lira itself, letting Soros win that bet. That was the hugest mistakes of the Italian politicians that started the economic decline of one of the world's economic superpower (until 1990 6th world's economy, and still today the country with the world's 3rd golden reserce behind USA and Germany).

[@TrentGuiness]

A few years ago I tried to relocate to Italy as a fairly wealthy retiree. After months of battling with incompetent lawyers, disfunctional real estate agencies, horrendous bureaucracy, ridiculous tax system and petty corruption at ALL LEVELS of society... I just gave up. It is a wonderful country with amazing people, culture, weather and cuisine, but it just doesnt work as a western country.. So I retired in a different country that might not have as much charm, but at least things work as they should. Super disappointing experience :(

[@francisdrake7060]

I know tons of retiree from different part of the world that live in Italy and they are super happy about It, must add that they all speak Italian which is a major need in order to live there.

[@biohazard8295]

Which part of Italy it was?

[@kevliao]

Just curious, what country are you from, and where did you end up retiring to eventually?

[@frank_zapping]

If you faced that about yout retiree you may figure how hard is to manage a company in my country 😅

[@pachycephalosauruslover14]

amazing people yet corruption and nepotism everywhere...

[@HermSezPlayToWin]

Italy is stuck too much in the past. Many of the best and brightest can’t establish themselves in the country because institutions like universities hire based on pedigree instead of demonstrated achievement. Even those who really want to go home cannot because they can’t find jobs befitting their qualifications there. So they establish themselves in other countries and flourish. Bad for Italy but very good for these other countries. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@kaloarepo288]

You can see it in the skyline of Italian cities -there are very few modern buildings and except for Milan virtually no skyscrapers in Italian cities - contrast this with London or the German cities or even in Spain and France. This of course gives us charming historical places but there is also a downside as ancient buildings are often inadequate for the needs of the modern economy and puts Italy in a straight jacket.

[@londonspade5896]

@@kaloarepo288 Those skyscrapers are full of offices, you can place offices within an old building... Plus tourists will prefer old buildings. Italy should avoid skyscrapers

[@kaloarepo288]

Often there are severe restrictions as to what can be done inside historic buildings -many have artworks painted on the walls and things like that but you are correct in pointing out the importance of art and architecture especially in regard to tourism - all those little hill towns with buildings clambering down the rocks are a delight to see and this resource should be exploited to the max- not just the obvious attractions like venice, Rome and Florence.@@londonspade5896

[@mattiblub1623]

I think another important part of Italy's growth in the 2000s is also that many countries joined the EU in 2004 and created a bigger EU market. At least in Germany, this has been a big factor - selling stuff within the EU and getting workers from other EU countries easily.

[@njm3211]

Retired American living in Sicily here. Way too much regulation, bureaucracy, nepotism, tax avoidance, professional incompetence and not enough procreation. Curious to see what effect the proposed bridge to Sicily will have once it and associated infrastructure upgrades in Sicily and Calabria are complete. History and geography have either blessed or cursed Italy. The south has been subjected to a double whammy. The north seems to be doing quite well. Covid cleared out many many thousands of very old people which is sad but good for the Italian treasury.

[@frithjofwinkelmann9025]

What a terrible comment

[@Doge811]

God saw the Italian situation and sent his divine providence........ The Italian government forced masks and vaccines....... 😭😭🤣🤣

[@silverado7253]

@@frithjofwinkelmann9025care to explain ?

[@nicholashoward7251]

Why no economic leader board rating? As a Brit I was looking forward to actually being ahead of a developed country for once!

[@jorehir]

Already did it in a past video. And it's currently easy to beat Italy when growth and such are accounted for :(

[@simonrafia4519]

We have better manufacturing in Italy (I'm working in the UK)

[@_Wombat]

I do feel like we (the UK) get pretty harsh treatment from this channel :D A lot of it is post-Brexit emotions. I've seen comments in the past celebrating the idea that we might enter a recession (which hasn't - as of yet - actually materialised). But in classical British style, we plod away, and most people barely pay any attention to the external negativity. Which is just as well really.

[@alepigna84]

We bribed him, we couldn’t have stand such a humiliation 😅

[@Harry93IT]

I wouldn't count on the UK scoring higher than Italy... private debt in Italy is incomparably, productivity ain't much better and since Brexit "Made in England" is associated with duties, taxes and shipping costs...

[@DimitriVonTolan]

I am an Italian in his late 30's, I was indeed waaay overqualified for the jobs I could get back home --- so, like many of my fellow countrymen I found fortune (and glory) abroad, in my case in nearby Austria. BUT someday I'll be back. to quote (some of it, unfortunately, is lost in translation) one of the most famous, if not THE most famous journalist of Italian History: "The future of Italy is maybe dubious --- but the future of Italians is BRIGHT. They always, always find a way" [Indro Montanelli]

[@MagicMike_101]

Blah blah blah XD

[@ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh123]

If you look at ethnic Italians there are way more living abroad (US, Brazil, Argentina, etc) than in Italy so I dont think the future of Italians in Italy is that bright.

[@DimitriVonTolan]

@@ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh123 ...Actually you just proved my point, saying that all those italians, like me, probably found fortune, and that's why they are still there. btw, what's an ETHNIC Italian? We were all different Nations until 1919, united by treaties and wars and Referendums. I'm Italian but I have Asian ancestry, and my Surname is of Austrian nobility. So yeah, complicated "ethnicity" to say the least, for us all.

[@silviamacaluso5484]

I hope you are right Dimitri! I am Italian too, abroad as you, dreaming to see a bright Italy that I never experienced. It was crisis since I remember. And as you I also have hope in our ability to reinvent ourselves and start again from the dust!

[@supermario929]

vabbe, altri cliche?

[@GOATMENTATOR]

That is because the last time that Ferrari won WDC was in 2007. Hopefully leclerc can win a championship in the coming years and everything will start to go up again.

[@des_moines840]

Ferrari is a dutch company now😂

[@117giltspur]

The reason young Italians can't find work is the same reason America is crashing. When I visited Italy in the 80s, I was surprised to see how everything was made in Italy, and how Italians could support themselves and a family with their one shop. After visiting my parents's town last year, I was very surprised to see the centre of the town almost completely gutted out. Fifty percent of the store fronts were for lease or sale. Yet, my relatives took me to a place they called "centro commerciale" and told me this is where everyone shops now. It is all corporate stores like H&M, Foot Locker, and I think Nike or Skechers. It was a typical cheap mall with fast foods too like Burger King. They actually thought I'd be impressed. It was very sad to see. I also noticed in the more touristy areas, malls with very posh, high-end stores, like Dior, Chanel, Armani, not sure, but definitely very upscale. I thought, what is going on? Interesting though, why the tattoos? These young people are so clueless. Why not spend thousands and go get branded.

[@DscntnuousMgntic]

It's so weird when people talk about the wage-price spiral so naturally as if the stock holders couldn't just make less money for doing nothing, keeping prices in check. The problem is always framed as if profits for the owners, who contribute nothing to the company, must stay the same or go up. They can in fact and to the benefit of almost everyone, go down so that workers can earn more and prices can stay lower.

[@bethanalpha]

welcome to capitalism, where the rich pig at the top gets always richer, and if he gets less rich, the poor workers shall be paid less so the pig can still get the same % of enrichment!

[@eldonad]

They sure can, but unless shareholders suddenly start to care about anything other than their paycheck, which isn't really in their short term interest, it's very unlikely they will...

[@drarsen33]

"Made in Italy" is more often than not "assembled in Italy". Many products are made in Balkan countries just to have all parts shipped to Italy for final polish which makes them "made in Italy".

[@danielmoran4051]

On the subject of Italian economics, I'd really enjoy it if you did a video explaining how Italian banking was conducted and its impacts on europe and the world in the Renaissance period.

[@LaunchOnTrack]

The reason why Italy has remained a strong economy is because it used to devaluate its currency. The majority of its industrial system has never been really competitive.

[@galactichitchhiker_]

In the '50 and '60 was competitive because the workers were very low paid. To be a successful manufacturer there are two way: -To have a lot of available and low paid workers (Italy in the '50, China until few year ago, India and Indonesia today and tomorrow) -Be efficient, innovative and have a high productivity (US, South Korea, Germany, Taiwan) Devaluating currency is simply taxing your population for compensate the country low economic performance.

[@luizbattistel155]

Getting the Italian citizenship was the best thing Ive ever done as a Brazilian. Greetings from Switzerland

[@salvo5108]

So you took advantage of Italian ciitizenship just to go to switzerland? Do you even speak Italian?

[@MW_Asura]

@@salvo5108 Brazilians do it a lot, a lot of them will purposely come to Portugal just to get Portuguese and subsequently EU citizenship only to f*ck off to some other EU country as soon as they have it

[@Junior-th9rt]

You Brazilian go back to brazil

[@multa7053]

@@salvo5108 And? He's definitely not abusing the social system. He either lived many years in Italy to obtain the citizenship or got it by ancesty. If he got it by ancestry then it's not his fault and Italian as a skill isn't necessary. It's the laws. And if he got it by living here many years then he contributed enough to get it. Nothing wrong with it. Don't hate the players, hate the game.

[@salvo5108]

@@multa7053 indeed I will do all I can to enforce at least a level B1 of Italian language comprehension by writing to my political officials. This loophole needs to end.

[@KingsguardMedia]

Looking at the Poverty Line Map, I need to see a video on the economy of Austria. A small landlocked country without a crazy finance sector like it's neighbour has the lowest poverty rate in Europe.

[@alekdemj]

Austria has quite low fertility rate. So they will face the same issues pretty soon. The world need to get rid of capitalism. Short term interests always contradict to long term interests. If people won't prioritize big families over career and leisure our children will face very tough times.

[@WonderBroadcast]

that map is completely wrong. Just look for the official data from the European Commission.

[@jorehir]

Those poverty stats are bullshit. Poverty definitions change, and they also get more or less concerning depending on the specific context of a country or region.

[@concinnus]

It's a mistake. Looking at his actual source, the CIA factbook, it seems like he used the figure from the next entry (Azerbaijan). Though I don't know how a strong finance sector would reduce poverty, lol.

[@Peteruspl]

It is very stagnant economy where middle class (and even worse - pensioners) got a nice piece of a pie and now guard it. Guild-style jobs - people who already got the jobs are very secure including guaranteed raises with inflation, but anyone without is screwed. I think there's still a system where there's limit of services per part of a city so its illegal to open hairdresser if the slots are taken (and they are always taken), so even small scale competition is stifled. If they would open it up many of the young people would get their opportunities but there will never be votes for this with so few children per family and all of the rich + middle class + old entrenched in a view that they are owed their position in life and all these benefits. Every vote will go towards preserving that until collapse.

[@marcoerbifori8683]

There's not that system anymore, since 1980 I guess...

[@lisette2060]

Competing in a race to the bottom isn't useful in today's global production climate.. Notice how miserable Middle Eastern citizens are getting along in many West European cities. They bring zero relevant skills and a dysfunctional culture

[@frank_zapping]

You have to know that today you can open hairdresser shops or pubs everywhere in Italy!

[@-bepyandfriends]

Unfortunately, Italy's problem is the mafia, namely politics. 😢

[@an70n10_]

Usa fault They invaded us giving money to mafia that fascism had crushed Usa is the worst ever🤢

[@bakadavi3917]

I'm Italian, I live in Milan and I'm 25. I work in computer science, but I cannot afford a rent. Wages are too low to live on your own if you are a young adult in Italy. I live with my famili, but I plan to move abroad as soon as possible. Let me add just one detail: the economy fell really bad during the pandemic and Italy did not recover from that. Food, Fuel and housing prices increased a lot and wages decreased slightly, so the situation right now is a lot worse than it was pre-covid

[@zdenekburian1366]

also, they have triple-boostered you by force

[@117giltspur]

The problem is you listen to your government. Not to mention getting the needles in your arms without researching why and what they are trying to do to you.

[@bakadavi3917]

@@117giltspur No, the problem is the age gap. We are not represented

[@des_moines840]

​@@bakadavi3917same, planning to move to Belgium

[@anatolyrozhkov3009]

As far as I know Italy purposefully makes it very hard for foreign graduates to stay in the country forcing them to move somewhere else in the EU. It's sorta strange, considering that education in Italy is partially subsidized making the whole situation even worse for the economy.

[@Christian-uj1mq]

Easy racism and their economy sucks😂

[@v1pogio118]

they also make slave labour laws for students, therefore making people who finish school move asap since wages are extremely low expecially for young people

[@8paolo96]

TBH, Italy doesn't really incourage you to go abroad, BUT it doesn't incourage you to stay either. There are also incentives for companies to employ young graduates, BUT that means company employ graduates to do basic undergraduated jobs with the same salary (but less effective cost for the company). So yeah, I'm 27, I've got two degrees and I'm currently unemployed looking for a job abroad.

[@Doge811]

Guy there aren't even the jobs for italian graduates..... Companies don't want them they want technicians.

[@anatolyrozhkov3009]

@@Doge811 It's not the point. I have a former classmate who works for Amazon in Italy and she has to be constantly enrolled into a uni to not get kicked out of the country coz obtaining a work visa is next to impossible. So, being employed in a high-skilled job at a reputable company and being a graduate from an Italian uni is still not enough to get an RP in the country, that's the problem I'm talking about.

[@SuperSmashDolls]

7:40 Take a drink every time an Economics Explained video reaches a conclusion like "economies only work because the working class doesn't keep up with inflation".

[@nussnougat5462]

Yeah, its a dumb argument but who can blame him, the old theories are still taught everywhere

[@_Wombat]

In his defence, is that not true? I'd argue that modern capitalism only works because poor people exist. There is a requirement for poor people in order for a capitalist economy to function. That's why governments don't fix poverty, because it would collapse the capitalist economy. Essentially, in order for me to have money, someone else has to be poor.

[@sandworm9528]

Yeah I'm getting tired of an economics channel that sounds like they haven't read any economic theory produced after 1950. I'm not even saying they need to read MMT, read stiglitz for gods sake!

[@zingarovskij]

@@sandworm9528 MMT is a hoax. Complete BS.

[@fransprospect]

I always say, Italy is a beautiful country to visit, but I wouldn't recommend living here. In my opinion, if Italy wants to thrive, They have to rebuild it from the ground up.

[@TheShizaarius]

This is a very interesting insight from a primarily economic point of view. It also taps into some of the cultural specifics of Italy, which I believe are also very important in shaping a country's economy. Also, it is good to hear that your rich neighbours have problems too 😅

[@shooterrick1]

Could you do a video on the problems with Finnish economy? I believe it's something a lot of people aren't aware of, and even here in Finland many are in denial about the terrible situation we are in.

[@rachelLadyD]

i didn't know that

[@shooterrick1]

@@rachelLadyD We are going to be the next Greece of Europe. I noticed that EconomicsExplained had made a video on finland, but he left out some important issues we are facing: Pension crisis (the current pension system cannot mathematically continue to function in the future), generational inequality, rising debt/gdp + debt expenses, low wages, and our inability to attract foreign talent.

[@jeremakela9273]

@@shooterrick1 Also Finland is for some reason paying money for Italy for example even tho we have problems. And we are a country that takes paying money back asap high priority where as some countries in Europe do not give a f*ck about paying back to EU. Also it is crazy for me that a county with highest gold reserve in EU is not required to give that as guarantee to pay back the money. They simply get money.

[@rosario6217]

​@@jeremakela9273Italy is a net contributor to the EU so I don't really understand what you are talking about

[@DarioCastellarin]

@@jeremakela9273 Italy is a net contributor in the EU, would you mind explaining how Finland is "paying money for Italy", whatever that means?

[@quintiax]

Hey EE! I have a question regarding the wage price spiral. You mentioned that linking wages to the index has the potential to develop the spiral. However is this always the case? For example Belgium has a law that fixes wages to the index automatically, meaning that each year wages automatically rise in line with inflation, without the need of an agreement between the government, unions and employers. Yet despite this, the inflation of Belgium is around the same as all other European nations, despite Belgium being the only one having this peculiar law. Is there a reason as to why the wage price spiral isn't activated in Belgium? Does the European internal market soften the increased wages for the companies? Thank you in advance!

[@larkyyyn3435]

Shhh not so loud the market said it can’t work.

[@vicesig]

Because Belgium is small. The inflation effect gets absorbed by the rest of the Euro States. If Germany (or Italy) would do that, you'd feel it.

[@howtoappearincompletely9739]

I am also eager to hear an explanation for this.

[@firenter]

Belgian here, I'd love to see EE's take on this as well. My two cents: in general we are a people that enjoy stability so we are relatively economically conservative. The wage index is one of the things that helps with that, as that means you don't need to concern yourself with making sure you're getting paid in line with a growing economy. This makes it so there isn't little booms and busts of increasing and decreasing wages depending on how the wider economy is doing which overall means a slightly higher cost of living but in return you (almost) never have to worry about making sure your paycheck is going to last you to the end of the month. For businesses it's also an incentive to seek sustained growth rather than going all in as then they'd be creating more inflation which would immediately backfire on both them and their peers as they'd have to pay their workers that much more the year after. This self-balances the system to a place where most businesses can either keep up with the rising cost of employees or go under and make room for someone who does value long term growth over making a quick buck.

[@kaneworsnop1007]

My interpretation from the video was that Italy's wages automatically increased with inflation as it happened, rather than other countries methods of the government raising minimum wage at the start of the financial year and not raising it again until the following financial year. So Belgium is basically do the same as other countries, only the wage increase is inline with inflation and not what the government decides; so as mentioned in the video this creates a delay between when inflation occurs and when pay goes up which helps to slow down the effect, although in that case it was employees asking for a pay rise which could occur multiple times a year and so would be less stable than the Belgium method.

[@Skritza]

I'm glad you can call them simple questions and I greatly appreciate you enlightening us all!

[@Mapologydocumentary]

I hope anyone who’s reading this finds inspiration in Italy’s resilient history and believes that, despite challenges, the country has the potential to overcome economic difficulties and thrive once again.😊

[@ludacorleone8563]

nice fairytale

[@nico-te2sb]

How?

[@frank_zapping]

Se ci liberiamo dei sinistri ce la faremo sicuramente! 👌

[@lucadesanctis563]

​@@frank_zappingquelli che ragionano come te sono il motivo per cui siamo ridotti di merda

[@katakkio]

commento degno di chi non ha capito un fico secco. Se continuiamo ad illuderci che una fazione politica sia la migliore dell'altra per puro spirito "calcistico" non andremo mai da nessuna parte. Il male del paese è la politica ed i suoi politici che a turno, da destra a sinistra, dissanguano ogni anno questo paese con provvedimenti degni del peggiore aguzzino. Tagliando sanità, pensioni, salari, etc. e ancora ci sono i fessi che fanno tifo calcistico della politica? Continuate ad illudervi che la vostra squadretta sia quella giusta e non vedere quello che combinano i vostri politici ladri e l'italia collasserà definitivamente.@@frank_zapping

[@PoisonAndBeer]

I loved the part where our economical system is based on us getting screwed and paid less than we deserve so it can survive. Yet every big company made record profits these past years. Lovely.

[@Tulkash01]

Something this video glosses over is Italian salaries lost purchasing power in the last 30 years. This is a unique phenomenon in the whole of Europe. That said it is true official statistics don’t give the full picture of the italian economy simply because a lot of it (more than 12%…) is invisible.

[@giorgio-tc6ui]

dovete dare merito a noi italiani che, nonostante tutte le brutte cose che avete detto e scritto, siamo una delle nazioni ,ancora, più rilevanti al mondo. Figuratevi dove saremmo se facessimo i bravi e gli onesti come nelle altre parti del mondo! Forse, siamo talmente altruisti che per lasciare spazio anche agli altri...usiamo l'evasione fiscale, il nepotismo, la mafia, la corruzione, l'arretratezza, ecc.ecc. Grazie e arrivederci!

[@toniraff5488]

I'm of italian origin, Sorbonne educated, and yet I'm treated as a slave that has to do the dirty work that the Luxembourgish don't want to do, I get mocked for being italian and I think of going back to Italy

[@des_moines840]

Don't do that, maybe go toSpain or portugal

[@prolarka]

I am sure that it Italy's future is very bright with all the Nigerian doctors and engineers who are migrating there to save the Italian pensioners.

[@Cjvhxv13hxz9i4dbc]

A doctor the other day tried to sell me an healing bracelet. They really care about our pensioners !

[@vmoses1979]

Stop whining about people scraping a living from your declining country. If your own doctors and engineers are abandoning the country thank your lucky stars that Nigerians are coming in.

[@Doge811]

Unfortunately all those doctors and engineers are stuck piking tomatoes in Italian farms what a waste.

[@vincenzocherubini2424]

From my experience, having seen the very painful way my Mum and Dad were treated by these Italian "so-called" doctors, i can't imagine that a Nigerian Dr would be worse. I now avoid Italian "health" workers like the plague!

[@BelleDividends]

Belgium is really falsifying this Wage-Price-Spiral hypothesis that is supposedly created by wage indexation, right now. On the other hand, wage indexation seems effective in fighting off technical recessions, Belgium's neighbours are in technical recession but Belgium itself is still growing.

[@robertmartin6800]

Belgium is a small part of a much larger economic union, they have the whole of the rest of Europe to keep their prices stable. When they artificially increase the costs of labor, they'll only see a small increase in the costs of everything else, because they're not insulated from the neighbors' economies and can lean on them to make up for the differences. Even still, you _do_ see increases in the cost of everything following their wage increases, it still happens, they're just slightly better protected from the loop, but not completely.

[@Obyvvatel]

Indexation could work in practice if there is a small max figure to it. If it's uncapped regardless of the inflation rate then it just blows up.

[@hauptmann25]

Because the wage-price-spiral is BS. It would only be applicable to a business with 100% of its costs being wages.

[@jag12549]

I love how you give well broken down explanations of things without opinion and without the snide pretentiousness of the guy on Economics Explained

[@iboomega5839]

Visiting Italy as a tourist is cool, living in Italy is hellish

[@alessiopaglia7515]

Hi! I am a young Italian economist, thank you very much for your work and I hope that in the future other international economists will bring more attention to the Italian situation. In my opinion it is at a critical point, where: either the foundations of the new most resilient economy in the world will be created, or we will reach a point of no return.

[@theaverageitaliandon998]

Considerando come sono andate le elezioni negli ultimi 20 anni, la classe politica italiana e il fatto che gli anziani hanno così tanto potere , temo che l’Italia sia persa.

[@MR-np3yg]

@@theaverageitaliandon998 english, this is not an italian video.

[@achrafelh]

what do you suggest ? so italy can be strong economically again

[@howtoappearincompletely9739]

Even if some of the data in it were rather dodgy, that was indeed a fascinating case study. One of your best videos for a while.

[@randomsomeguy156]

There was definitely some dodgy data jn this video. See 10:50 read the citation date and graph dates. Not to mention the typos in the beginning of the video

[@spaniardsrmoors6817]

It's CLICKBAIT/BS

[@mikehammer5476]

I am italian and travelled and worked in dozens of country and, long story short, Italy is the best country of the world to live if you are wealthy, otherwise it's complicated. Things are changing thought.

[@maksimpanteleev5104]

Do you know why Austria is green? It still receives gas and oil from Russia, and has not imposed sanctions against Russia. This is a fact.

[@darkmater4tm]

When economists talk about the level of education in a country, I think of one particular friend of mine. He did a master's about how regional churches leased land for sheep grazing in the Eastern Roman Empire. He's doing a followup PhD too and has received a decent grant for it.

[@Croz89]

As interesting as that sounds, I'm not sure how well that would translate to paid employment. Humanities subjects just don't have that many paid positions.

[@londonspade5896]

@@Croz89 He might become a shepherd in Anatolia

[@aldotanca9430]

@@Croz89 True, but then without people devoting themselves to theoretical fields, including historical research, people in paid employment would have nothing to read and learn, and a very hazy understanding, if any, of the society they live in. Of its past, present and future. There would be no progress. A grant might not be paid emplyment, but it is a payment for valuable work.

[@Croz89]

@@aldotanca9430 That's fair, but in general there's far more people studying these things than there is money to employ them in said field.

[@alfonshasel1995]

10:50 you forgot to mention that when the joined the eur zone riks premiums on sovereign bonds practically disappered which made taking on debt even easier

[@mrxanthios7045]

For our German friends, who are welcoming so many of us fleeing from a fucked up contry, first of all thank you. I moved in the north of Germany, and basically everyone here speaks English, it is making thing easier. Trust me guys, I lived in the US for four years, came back to Europe and I will never go back to the US. If you are an IT professional, and looking with envy at american salaries, remember that they mean nothing. 150k versus your 60k? Yes, but they have no medical coverage basically, even if you have medical insurance and pay for it, the insurance will fight tooth and nail not to pay, find every possible excuse not to cover you, the first moderate to severe health problem, all your money is gone. Source: me, when I was there I worked in the medical insurance field. Second, they have almost no unemployment coverage, you need to have a huge emergency deposit, possibly covering one year or more of your complete expenses. Any kind of unlucky event in your life is going to ruin you financially, you live in a society that doesn't give you back anything, you are on your own. Trust me, you prefer to make your 60k in Germany. I also prefer not to make 30k or less for the same position, with the same competence, in Italy.

[@iwillnotcomplyistandformyf6642]

Literally that's everywhere all over the world *_*not*_* just Italy though

[@ClubNoWars]

Issues faced by Italy are, as many can tell, not unique (Japan faces very similar issues) but part of a broader global pattern that all countries are facing on different levels, Italy is clearly well prepared from every trauma, they proved it by getting hit by CCP's covid as first ones,and that's what its strenght: its people do not give up.

[@trunkage]

EE: Italy used peg wages to CPI. This is bad as it auto increaes inflation Also EE: Decades later, many young Italians are moving to other countries for better wages I wonder if these are related...

[@alessandrocerioli2151]

Today Italian companies expect young graduates to work for free for years thanks to the abolishment of what was called Scala Mobile in the 80s...in short in the last four decades salaries have decreased to the point they expect young graduates to work FOR FREE.

[@galactichitchhiker_]

@@alessandrocerioli2151 Salary are decreased because people voted for lower retirement age: high tax on labour equal lover salary. Add low productivity, low innovation, low competitiveness: it's a miracle that Italy is not already Argentina.

[@EhM-xt7pl]

They aren't. Other countries focussed on productivity, and wages grew naturally.

[@trunkage]

@@EhM-xt7pl increasing productivity does not another lead to increaae wages. In fact, it rarely does That's the problem

[@alessandrocerioli2151]

@@EhM-xt7pl for Italian companies "productivity" means making people work more and pay them less. "Natural" wage increase does not exists, at least in Italy: if you try to tell your employer that you going to quit unlessvyou're given a raise the answr is:"Leave, out of the door I can find twenty people better than you that ask for less money."

[@onlinepanda1]

I think that also a lot of italians underestimate the situation thank you for bringing facts