Song Of The South 1st Watch Reaction - Is It Really That Bad?

[@foxlancaster4044]

My mom took me to the theater to see this when I was little. Who on EARTH was "radicalized into white supremacy" by this movie? Nobody. Period.

[@jimlarkin5917]

Release it let people make up their own minds

[@richin2123]

I agree that Walt Disney played it too safe with "Song of the South", but the reasons probably seemed good at the time. In 1946, Disney was not a major studio (and their distributor, RKO Radio Pictures, while bigger, certainly wasn't a major player either). "Song" was Disney's first live-action feature; just being able to afford to shoot in Technicolor and engage the services of two Oscar winners (cinematographer Gregg Toland, who shot "Citizen Kane", which featured Ruth Warrick [Johnny's mom here], and actress Hattie McDaniel) must have been big for them. Probably didn't leave much money to hire screenwriters who could write anything better than a framework to hang the animated sequences on. With those financial risks, I can easily imagine the studio keeping it as vague as possible to avoid controversy and make their money back. I do wonder if any other Hollywood movies of the time were similarly vague about the era as well, though. I'm sure some had to be. We're shocked at "Song" because it's Disney, and Disney is ridiculously huge now. If RKO or Republic had made it, it would be completely forgotten by now. It would be great if Criterion put together a release that really studied the film's making, reactions, and legacy. Burying it means that many of African-Americans may not even know that James Baskett received an Oscar (even if it was not a competitive one) for it.

[@beatmet2355]

It’s interesting the scrutiny that this film has over Disney. At the end of the day, it’s a kids’ movie and I think it could hold up without having to explain it and its racial implications. No one has ever accused Mary Poppins, Disney’s Robin Hood or the Sword in the Stone of historical inaccuracies or discrepancies. If you were to show this to children who have not been exposed to any of the historical ramifications by the media or their parents, would probably enjoy it as well as any Disney animated film. At the end of the day, it’s a children’s film, not a social commentary.

[@MichaelNoland-TheBottomLine]

We evolve as a society! But covering up our past does nothing, and there’s way too much apologizing in Hollywood these days! And then Hollywood preaches us to endlessly with their newly found consciousness! I love the movie!❤ Superfan is right! There was way more positiveness to the film than negative! An honorary Oscar was bogus! I just wish Disney would apologize for their whole approach to Star Wars!😉 Mandalorian being the only exception in my book!

[@TJRtheOriginal]

You need to watch Andor.

[@davidskidmore4189]

The movie is very good, and it saves things that are very explicitly black folklore. The stories that Joel Chandler Harris wrote were allegedly the stories and legends relayed by Uncle Remus. To forget or marginalize these stories is to forget a part of African American history, and a rich section of American folklore.

[@realfloridaredneck1988]

This movie was released in the 1940s, at a time when the Jim Crow laws were in full effect. This movie portrays a black man as a father figure to a white boy during the reconstruction period in Georgia. Johnny is colorblind in this movie, he doesn't view himself as better than Toby, Ginny or Uncle Remus. The grandmother, who spent almost her entire life as an aristocratic slave owning white woman had a lot of respect for Uncle Remus and the other black people on the plantation. The only real prejudiced person in the entire movie was Johnny's mother, she didn't seem prejudice against the blacks as much as she did against the poor. This movie actually does take a stance, a very solid one. It teaches children in a very subtle way that everybody matters, regardless of race or class. It teaches that everybody has feelings, and that we ain't so different. Being that this movie was released during the Jim Crow era, when prejudice and racism was extremely high, not only in the South but even in the North, this movie was quite revolutionary in its time. Uncle Remus was the protagonist, the black characters were all good to Johnny and the family, the old grandmother was tolerant of others who were different and accepted them in her home. Even in the beginning when Johnny and Toby were just becoming friends, the grandmother encouraged this. That was unheard of in this time. This movie does show us that prejudice and hate are wrong, when Johnny gets attacked by the bull, he put himself in that situation to stop Uncle Remus from leaving. When Johnny did that, his mother opened her eyes and put aside her prejudices when she noticed that Johnny's way of looking at things was the right way. My mixed race daughter has seen this movie a lot, she loves it. Her friends come from all different backgrounds, this movie didn't teach her to hate, it taught her to accept everybody as her equals. This is an excellent movie for children, Disney is making a huge mistake by not releasing this movie to the public.

[@TJRtheOriginal]

I really appreciated all the points you made in this comment. Thank you.

[@m.j.vazquez4720]

i really dont think this movie is racist at all

[@kijekuyo9494]

I grew up in an ethnically mixed neighborhood (African, Philippine, Japanese, Italian, Mexican, European origin), and until I moved to highly homogenous neighborhood at 11 years old, I had no idea what a "race" was. I am European-American. My best friend, Glenn, was African-American, and I spent much of my free time with him and his family. The differences between my family and his and the other families were just family differences to me, not racial or ethnic ones. I saw Song of the South in a cinema when I was about 11 or 12 years old. The movie had no effect on my views of African-Americans, race relations, slavery, and bigotry. My views were not shaped by pieces of entertainment, maybe because I grew up watching classic films, which were very unreal and simplistic, almost cartoonlike in their world depiction. I acquired my world concept based on real life.

[@TJRtheOriginal]

That’s great to hear.

[@alaenamcdonald1877]

I grew up with the Disney channel in the 80’s-‘90s, and one of the programs included the animated portions of Song of the South, which is how I knew of it, but it never aired any live action parts of the movie except the zippadeedooda number. I absolutely loved it and wanted to see the whole movie, which of course was unavailable. As a child, it was just exciting to see depictions of Black people in Disney material period. The Disney channel by that point had weeded out overtly racist cartoons in their vintage cartoon program that ran classic Mickey Mouse shorts, so the only Black representation at the time was the still problematic Somg of the South material. It was very radical to make this movie during that time period at all, and the fact that, although it heavily leans on stereotypes, the Black characters are not depicted in a negative or condescending way per-se. Especially the actual Brer Rabbit sequences showcase a universe never portrayed before in cinema - a universe where all the characters are Black and their Blackness is not the subject of the stories. That is the most radical part of the movie, because although the characters are anthropomorphic cartoon animals, it’s clear they’re voiced by Black actors using Black humor and Black speech patterns. Brer Rabbit, Fox, and Bear are portrayed as any other cartoon characters of the time were; their character designs weren’t singled out by any specific marks of ethnicity, which was definitely radical for the period. They were simply cartoons telling Black stories. Is it still problematic? Of course it is. But I’m with Whoopi’s stance - censorship is not the answer, a dialogue is.

[@chobson8602]

its a beautiful movie

[@Concetta20]

Uncle Remus was the hero of the movie, a father figure, which was radical for that time and spoke against racism when Johnny’s mother tried to discourage her child’s friendship with Uncle Remus, that was seen as a negative thing and she apologized to Uncle Remus after.

[@jimlarkin5917]

It was the first movie I looked for when we got Disney + was on Uk tv in the 80s and 90s

[@paulyoung2302]

Terrible live action film, amazing animation combined with live action sequences, better than Poppins and Roger Rabbit!

[@janedoe5229]

I saw this when I was a very young. I saw kids who became friends. I saw an old black man who was kind, compassionate and wise. And I saw cartoon animals teaching lessons. I enjoyed the movie.

[@michaelackley5773]

I watched a vhs of it alot when I was a kid an I don't remember it being that bad...

[@aaronrichards2001]

Loved your discussion. I agree with previous commentor Michael Noland. "Covering up our past does nothing". Films are inherently products of their own era. This film is, not only a story taking place during reconstruction of the South, but itself a product released right after WW II and coincidentally, the reconstruction of America. This film has 1946 written all over it, from it's lush Technicolor photography to it's romanticism of the old South, to it's non-straight forward verbage taking place in the coach at the beginning, to it's tiptoeing around an antislavery statement which may have had an issue with the Hayes office? Not sure. Anyway, It's a shame that any film is pulled from circulation. This is an example of current Disney being afraid of controversy. We need these films to be available to be able to see who we were and how we have evolved. Many films from this era will never see the light of day because of this fear and a justifiable repulsion towards the depiction of the black community. I would propose a DVD line of these controversial movies, accompanied by discussions and documentaries. Maybe from Criterion? Our culture doesn't benefit at all having these items collect dust. Anyway....When I was a young boy, I had a very special love for this film. I didn't see it as racial back then, all I knew was that i loved Uncle Remus, but as I grew older and realized that there was definitely an idealization of the slave by showing them going to and from the cotton fields singing joyously, I suddenly felt a pit in my gut of disgust and thought to myself, how could they depict the South like that? Well, it comes from the inability in 1946, to show truth in movies.....especially post war, and a traumatized society. The amount of films from that era that fantasize and romatanticize the past is astounding. Remember that this was the era that the MGM musical would flourish as well as all the Technicolor fare of Betty Grable and Carmen Miranda! Realism and honest dialogue would happen on occasion and the Oscars would identify that, but the most popular fare with audiences by far, truly was escapism. Nobody would have gone to see a Disney film back then steeped in brutal Southern reconstructionist reality. Disney was the epitome of fantasy! Remember that this was the first time Disney used real actors in a story. There was "The Three Caballeros" the year before where they tested their ability to mix animation with live action and there was "The Reluctant Dragon" in 1941 that took us on a fake tour of the Disney studio, but THIS film of the south was a first and I am sure Disney didn't want to offend anyone especially the Hayes office and Disney's southern market share. Remember this film premiered in Atlanta. James Baskett didn't attend because of racial segregation. There is a lot of history behind this film and Hollywood in general in this era. So, as flawed as this film may be, and as controvesial as it has become, the public learns nothing by having it pushed aside and hidden from view. Let's see it, talk about it and present it as the antiqauted artifact that it is. 1946 is dead and gone but we should never forget it.

[@TJRtheOriginal]

You bring up a lot of good points. Thank you for he comment.

[@well-dressed-bird]

I thought he didn't ask his mom about Toby coming to the party because Toby and his mom seemed to live at the grandmother's house, so his presence at the party was just an expected thing. Clearly he lives there since he's always there, he's waking up Johnny early in the morning, and he's tasked by his mother of looking after Johnny. Jonny asking if Toby could come world be like asking if his grandma could come.

[@kiroolioneaver8532]

This was a really facisnating and interesting reading of the film (probably because the both of you self-admitted that you hadn't seen it previously and so had no prior baggage). The pointing out by Super Fan about one of the positives of the film being the three kids bond despite racial and class differences is a case and point. I think the main issue of this film therefore may not be how the interpersonal relationships are depicted but in the macro-setting of the film (i.e. the Reconstruction South where the African-Americans are seemingly happy and content with their situation). I agree that perhaps if what the father's writing was about was more fleshed out then this film has a better legacy (as well if they had depicted more nuance in the African-American characters feelings abotu their situation rather than as passive (to use the literary term "Magical N*gro" characters)." Also I think your points about it not taking a definitive stance and the class system are spot on and shows why institutional and legal racism (especially in the Southern and American context) was to divide poor people among racial lines to protect the wealthy landowners (like Bacon's Rebellion).

[@anotheruser8523]

This movie is actually really sweet & wholesome and has done a lot to break down color barriers in Hollywood for black people

[@daryldwayne3538]

I really dig this movie!!! I love the songs and the stories, hell I wish they would just cut out everything except Uncle Remus singin’ and Brer Fox & Brer Rabbit…

[@christopherreichart9193]

I am here for Disney vaolt

[@thrummer1953]

There's nothing wrong with the film. It's good wholesome family entertainment.

[@XavierAntonioDelaGuardia]

Is It Really That Bad? No, we don't hate Song of the South, never.

[@viningscircle]

Disney today releases nothing but PC tripe, but a beloved classic is subject to the memory hole.

[@jimlarkin5917]

That’s so true people can make up their own minds

[@bewarebewear1507]

I doubt they will ever release this film even on the disney 100 anniversary, their actually doing the complete opposite and removing any reference that has the brer characters in the parks and they are getting rid of entire ride that is splash mountain on both parks. Which is a shame in itself that they refuse to acknowledge even the brer characters when they were not involved in the racial conflict but only because they were associated with the film splash mountain getting torn down, and the ride only goes through the animated segments of brer rabbits stories and has nothing refrencing the live action parts. Splash Mountain also has alot of wonderful diverse critters that were not even part of the film to make the ride more immersive, fun, and to even try retcon song of the south, they also sing songs from the film in a bigger and more fun way such as "how do you do", "everybodys got a laughing place" which is my favorite, and "zip-a-dee-doo-da". I know that the critters were part of another closed down attraction but they were still wonderful and its a huge shame that a lot of disney history and this ride does have a lot of history and lore behind it, is being torn down due to disney wanting to erase anything that is even barely associated with the film. And it is a huge shame that walt didnt try to make song of the south a fully animated film thay only features the brer characters and other critters characters, the film would have been alot less controversial and would have actually been loved and an instant classic. Song of the south would have also been more progressive if they would have taken this direction in my opinion since all of the brer characters were voiced by african american stars already in the film and if they would have had a larger cast of original critter characters like the ride did, they could have had a larger cast of african americans fully voicing the characters just like how universal had a full african american cast producing and voicing the animated film "the adventures of brer rabbit". If walt would have taken this direction I believe that song of the south would have actually been a progressive step in disney history. Sorry for the long essay, I am just super passionate about the brer characters and its still a shame to me how disney is treating them now.

[@m.j.vazquez4720]

10:19 i actually dont think its fair for people to think that because i think the movie was giving the audience some credit to figure it out such as when uncle remus is fired , slaves are sold slaves are punished slave are not fired

[@Brofrankkb]

I watch this film when I was a little kid I think we saw it in the theater twice. Remember they were introducing the read-along books in elementary school where you put cassette tape in and listen to someone read as you read along in a book help improve our reading skills and the stories of Brer Rabbit Brer Fox from this movie We're part of that set of read-along books and they got used heavily. And one of the things I remember from that was the explanation that the stories of Brer Fox and Brer Rabbit or actually stories that had come over from Africa an animals have been changed to reflect the current location of the Storyteller. But the Traditions the morals of the Fable the story structure remain the same. I remember when my children were born I went looking for this film so I could share that with them and I was stunned to find out at that time that Disney had basically banned the movie. At a certain point in their discussion the person off screen says that just as an entertainment piece this is actually a very good movie. Epic. that's the point that everyone is missing, this was an entertainment piece pure and simple not a political statement, not social commentary, it was an entertainment piece set in it's time. It's also a Showcase of some very old stories it made it through the transatlantic slave trade to America . Fables that have found their way into the fabric of the American culture . And as they have said compared to some of the other things that were filmed for portrayed during this time frame of the early 40s early 50s the racial overtones really are not that extreme at all. You want cringy go watch an early Tarzan, or read a Victorian era novel. I'm going to find a copy of this and share this with my grandchildren and my great-grandchildren and answer any questions that they might have about the story.

[@alexanderdrummond3343]

So remake it with a better perspective. Tell the stories because Joel Chandler Harris wrote the stories he heard. They were African American stories and its a part of the culture that gives ties back to Western Africa, as well as Creole Caribbean culture. People who brought an oral history and mythology with them.

[@jimyancy6842]

Video might have been better without the offstage whiney intrusions!

[@Fortaz107]

The only problem with this copy of the film is there's some missing footage during the Tar Baby scene

[@david.leikam]

I think there is also a different sense of time in 2023, compared to 1940s and being closer to the US Civil War too. 🤔

[@jaytv4eva]

Here's a thought; what if Song of the South was trying to co-opt Southern idealism to promote abolitionism?

[@jaytv4eva]

Southern idelaism of the slave period

[@JamesCard-u1s]

It’s literally not bad at all. The narrator just happens to have been a slave. Nothing wrong with it considered that’s who came up with these stories. People are just overly sensitive and ruined it.

[@TJRtheOriginal]

I don’t see the audience as being over sensitive....I just think that “Disney Company” is being very cautious regarding the possible backlash (which is why I think they have kept it in the vault for so long).

[@janedoe5229]

He is not a slave. This is AFTER the Civil War.

[@JaredGriffiths2000]

I have that same Spanish bootleg blu ray. I do rather like the film with the controversy aside.

[@DetroitRockCitizen]

I haven't watched it in somewhere like 5 decades.

[@tmofee]

I found it slow as hell but the songs are good

[@cedarstuff]

Thanks - enjoyed this thoughtful chat.

[@TJRtheOriginal]

Glad you enjoyed it! And thank you. Very much appreciated.

[@mikealexandersyoutubechann3498]

Great conversation.

[@TJRtheOriginal]

Thanks

[@nelsonmaud1]

At the time Disney had this film I think if he took too much of a stance the kkk or others would of threaten him it was before Martin Luther king añd all that I think he was thinking people wouldn't come and see it it probably would of bombed and riots down south would of happened over this movie in the 40s but agree should be 14+ to see

[@nellgwenn]

Maybe the problem with The Song of The South wasn't that the movie wasn't anti-racist. But maybe It's because Walt Disney himself was racist. The movie you watched went through a rewrite and a meeting with the NAACP to make it less racist. The meeting didn't happen. I think the racist aspects of Disney's personality is the problem with the movie. As you know this movie isn't the only place racist images pop up in Disney movies. As well as the meeting where he welcomed Leni Riefenstahl to his studio a month after Kristallnacht. I'm sorry but there are too many examples of hard cold facts, not opinions which illustrates Disney's racism. Also not to be ignored: "Women do not do creative work". A letter from the Disney company sent to an applicant.

[@m.j.vazquez4720]

how was Walt Disney racist ?

[@1krani]

Point to some of these cold hard facts, not uncorroborated anecdotes but facts, of Walt being racist. The man wanting Louis Armstrong for the Jungle Book and creating the character of King Louie specifically for him doesn't strike me as being a racist.

[@nellgwenn]

@@1krani Do you know who Leni Riefenstahl is? Do you know what Kristallnacht is? Disney scrapped the idea of Louis Armstrong for the role of King Louie. Even Disney understood how bad the optics would look having a black man play an ape. Do you really think the black community would consider it an honor to be portrayed as an ape? Also name me some black animators. Black people in the Disney company who had creative roles of responsibility. When referring to the dwarves in Snow White he used a term I shall not use here out of respect to this channel. Also you have family admissions of Walt being racist. And I'm not going to do your homework for you. You go look into the subject then come back and let me know how he wasn't racist. Also this topic isn't controversial in the Disney organization. Everyone understands this to be the case. And I'll leave it there.

[@m.j.vazquez4720]

@@nellgwenn 1- as far as i can tell he met her once and declined to meet her again 2- yeah many blacks didnt receive a good education back then so probaly not many had a chance to pursue animation whats your point ? 3- historians who actually went through his writings conclude there is little evidence he was antiemetic 4- "And I'm not going to do your homework for you" bit of a copout there but ok

[@Benji306]

@@nellgwenn Floyd Norman

[@reddykilowatt]

of all the actually good movies that deal with race, why anyone would choose to watch this one unironically is baffling.