Sonic 3 - Are Super Sonic's Green Eyes a Mistake?

[@SilverSonic1992]

0:30 - A little addendum brought to my attention by Legobouwer9. One of Tails's distant ending sprites is also affected (infected?) with the green color. Furthermore, some of the distant Tornado sprites are entirely discolored. This seems to be a general problem with the ending graphics for whatever reason.

[@AccelerateHedge]

Common Legobouwer W

[@rivetdev]

Might want to pin this!

[@SilverSonic1992]

@@rivetdev That can be arranged.

[@powerkirbybomber6503]

2:48 Sonic Origins actually changed the color of Eggman's glasses to be more accurate, but didn't change Super Sonic's eyes. That's more proof that the green eyes are intentional. Also, I can't believe that people are STILL unironically freaking out about sonic having green eyes in 2024, TWENTY FIVE years after Sonic Adventure's release, to the point that they're falsely accusing them of being a glitch. This is why the Sonic fandom gets a bad rap; no other fandom (except possibly Star Wars fans) holds onto petty drama like a character's eye color for OVER TWO DECADES.

[@SilverSonic1992]

Haha, I do know that some people absolutely despise the green eyes. It's all a bit silly, really.

[@Useott]

​@@SilverSonic1992yeah, I think the green eyes are cool too

[@gaylootomatoe]

they changed the pallete for his eyes to green but forgot to remove that color from some sprites

[@KnucklesWTD-uu3ps]

People on the internet freak out about everything. Even a white spaceship.

[@robbiewalker2831]

@@SilverSonic1992 You know what, all the Sonic characters should've stayed in the classic style. I don't know why SEGA would do that and not only change Sonic's eyes to have green irises in his normal form, but to also have red irises when going Super.

[@ar62000]

I believe they were intentional. Super Sonic kind of just lost a lot of its original inspiration after the first few entires. In Sonic 2 he was muscular and he gained more quills. In Sonic 3 they dropped the muscles (probably because of the lack of unique sprites) and gave him green eyes. Subsequent entries just make him yellow (instead of flashing yellow and white), turn his eyes red (since they're already green now), and have his quills point up without changing in size or shape at all.

[@holasoyd0ra136]

HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE MUSCULAR?!

[@TechBlade9000]

@@holasoyd0ra136 Sonic 2 idle sprite Man is RIPPED

[@Useott]

​@@TechBlade9000the transform frames make sonic more buff

[@ssppeeaarr]

basically ss1 sonic

[@ilikesonicxbro]

the muscles come from super saiyan

[@crudmuffin64]

I've long believed the theory that Sonic grows in skill over time, and I would not discount the idea that repeated transformations into Super Sonic gave Sonic his green eyes by default. The same is true for being able to defeat Perfect Chaos and homing attacks being possible in Sonic's base form.

[@ORLY911]

Always rolled with this as well. I'd even say the master emerald could've done it to him too. The Archie Comics kinda played with this with Anti Sonic becoming Scourge, who outright becomes green absorbing all instead of some of the ME. Sonic in that continuity also got his modern look from going super with a super emerald running around the planet.

[@GamingGardevoir]

Facts, that’s why he can’t control his powers at all in Sonic 2; then gains enough control to jump freely but not push himself with an instashield, and he can’t break his own shields to transform yet; but from the next game onward he has full control of the power

[@greenknight9000]

I actually really like this theory Perhaps since when Sonic turns Super, his eyes turn green; over time, Sonic's skills and power increase more and more. By Sonic Adventure, he's roughly as strong as Super Sonic was back in Sonic 2/3, thus his eyes are green. His Super Transformation from then on ascends past the original limits, now making his eyes red.

[@TaelsDaFoox]

my main reasoning for the green eyes being intentional is that if you just change all the green on the sprites to black, the eyes... don't look quite right. S3's sprites consistently have a gray pixel of antialiasing at the bottom of Sonic's eyes, which is completely absent from all the super frames. a while back I made a S3AIR mod that gives super/hyper black eyes, and it took a solid half hour of tweaking sprites for the eyes to be consistent with the non-super sprites. interestingly though, the new sprites in origins ARE antialiased as if the eyes were black, which looks kinda weird.

[@SilverSonic1992]

Good eye (no pun intended). I noticed this too while making the video, but wasn't sure how to put it into good words.

[@TaelsDaFoox]

real

[@TrackedToasted]

@Dathingy Wild da-thing encounter

[@UNIT5FAN]

Imo the green eyes make the SSJ reference better

[@Eldoofus]

Also the eventual evolution of Classic-to-Modern, actually receiving the green eyes in base.

[@KnucklesWTD-uu3ps]

​​@@Eldoofusthats likely due to Sonic 3 having a different lead artist

[@vegetafan9922]

If that was the case they would have been turquoise not green

[@windandfireproductions5358]

Ssj eyes are green

[@ssppeeaarr]

@@windandfireproductions5358 depends sometimes its blue too.

[@sikthehedgehog]

I wouldn't rely too much on Sonic Origins since they were likely interpreting what was already there in the released games, but I agree I always thought it was likely because of Goku (since Super Sonic is clearly a reference to super saiyans).

[@melo-7904]

i always thought they were intentional but that might have been because i never looked too closely into the sprites that are not used in gameplay

[@yoshisreal]

we might not know if this is truly a mistake or an intentional decision, but what we do know is that the green eyes eventually became the norm for sonic ever since the dreamcast.

[@Louiethedog1]

Because of that mistake and also not I’ll explain

[@da-sonic]

fun fact: not only is concept art super sonic doing the pose goku did when he went ssj the first time, he also has fluffy hair like the early (not EARLY EARLY like with the red eyes and stuff) ssj design (basically, all super saiyans starting with goku from their introduction at the end of the namek arc all the way to the early cell saga had fluffy, softer looking hair, although from late cell saga to current, all super saiyans have spiky, banana looking hair even if they're using super saiyan 1 and not 2)

[@Arcad3n]

Huh, wow! I remember that Twitter thread, and I guess I just believed it without looking deeper into it. Thanks!

[@callumsparrow4379]

Does this also mean that Robotnik’s Diabolical Traps are canon too?

[@SilverSonic1992]

"Everything is canon" ~ Ian Flynn.

[@blackopskoopa6404]

@@SilverSonic1992so that planet in the last zone of sonic superstars that looks like the end in frontiers but Ian claimed it’s not the end but it looks exactly like it is canon?

[@apurpledragon]

As we all know it's not an error, as the reason why Knuckles cutscene sprites were changed was because his color palette was conflicting with the actual hud causing it to turn green in moments when he was on screen which doesn't happen with Super Sonic. And as shown in the video there's an intentional green sprite there likely used for Super Sonic's eyes as if it was a mistake it would've been corrected.

[@metallicwarrior]

Couldn't it be possible that the new sonic design frames were all in a green backdropped sheet? I remember that i saw a Streets Of Rage 3 Artist had published the original graphical frames of an enemy characters from that game, all of them beign in a white backdropped sheet. I think that the artists just forgot to color correctly Super Sonic Eyes (like the ending sprites), leaving the Green Backdrop (if it had) on the sheet, which could also explain the lack of opacity on the eyes in the rotational frames, as they removed the green backdrop of the sheet (again, if it had). This could be possible as so much people were handing the game, if in the musical aspect (which doesn't tend to be an aspect where so much people work), imagine in the artistical side.

[@MizunoKetsuban]

If that's the case, aren't you implying that Super Sonic is meant to have see-through eyes? That feels significantly less plausible.

[@metallicwarrior]

​​​@@MizunoKetsubanNo, I explained it poorly but what i meant is that maybe Super Sonic's eyes were supposed to be anything but green (maybe black like in Sonic 2?), this color might be the result of bad frame cutting, but given the rushed nature of the game it's pretty plausible

[@MizunoKetsuban]

@@metallicwarrior Again, that doesn't make any sense if you're assuming the background color they were working with was green. If they wanted them to be black, they would visibly be a different color against that backdrop.

[@GamingGardevoir]

@@MizunoKetsubanhe’s suggesting that the background may have originally been green and the eyes were supposed to be colored after, but they forgot to, the background was replaced with the fill tool, which didn’t remove the green eyes from most sprites, but did remove it from the rotating sprites, and it was never fixed

[@metallicwarrior]

@@GamingGardevoir Exactly this!

[@KnucklesWTD-uu3ps]

Sonic 3 had a different lead artist than Sonic 1 and 2. So thats likely the reason

[@Brainulator9]

I hope we eventually get raw Digitizer graphics for this game.

[@JamesRoblox440]

Fun fact: the music you used is what inspired the creators of sonic adventure 2 to make city escape, if you pay attention to the music it will sound like city escape.

[@RatchetAndClank14]

No, it's just a coincidence

[@maxrichards5925]

Glad you covered that question. It's been in my mind rent free for a few months now lol & I think it was intentional. Also later iterations of super sonic gave him red eyes instead, probably because they were worried about it being too similar to dragon ball

[@Royameadow]

Not only do I feel that this was an intentional reference to Dragon Ball, but I feel that it was meant to serve as a plot point: At least in the games, we never get to learn the reason for why Sonic's eyes naturally become Green by the time we get to Adventure '98 and Pocket Adventure, it is believed that his overexposure to Chaos Energy and the Emeralds and Rings of South, Westside, Floating, Isolated, and Flickies' Island eventually led to them completely changing over from Black; this is why I started to call this form Super Sonic: First Grade, with Red in Adventure '98 and onwards being Second Grade and the Sky Blue used by Cyber Super in Paths Revisited (Frontiers: The Final Horizon) being Third Grade, my headcanon at this point is that the effects of First Grade became strong enough to become integrated into Sonic's normal form and Second and Third Grade still require the power of the Chaos Emeralds and/or the Ancients even after so many adventures and this will potentially remain a constant for the foreseeable future. Now, I have never gotten to look at any of the Archie and IDW Comics leading up to and presented after Sonic's design change for Adventure '98, so I know that there is a lot of context missing on my end about Sonic's other forms and relevant criteria (one notable threshold being where he needs a Thousand Rings simply to transform); if the comics do deliver some relevant reason that is never brought up in the games, then I wonder how much of this affects the timeline of events, it'll be nice to learn more about this and wishfully this will help better align and elaborate on how Floating Island's emeralds led Sonic to getting Green Eyes from the get~go and why they became a mainstay beginning with the Japanese version of Flickies' Island (Saturn)'s boxart (if we're counting FI as the final entry in the Classic Era, in the eyes of the Japanese Canon).

[@marx4538]

Those sprites on the thumbnail are cool, where are they used in S3? (If used) Good video! I personally think the green eyes are intentional, or at the very least something they wanted to do at one point.

[@SilverSonic1992]

Thank you! Those sprites come from Sonic Origins.

[@lepopcornnaisseur546]

Actually, his super eyes are blue, cause he's a true Aryan. 🙋🏼‍♂️

[@LethalBubbles]

if it's a mistake it may be caused by confusing transparency with black when converting from the digitizer, leading to leftover palette RAM data coloring the eye

[@SilverSonic1992]

Good point - if it is a mistake, this is the most likely culprit.

[@guyiguess438]

I actually really like the green eyes it’s a shame we only saw them again in sonic pocket adventure

[@SSpeedyCarter]

I personally like the black eyes for consistency

[@edgardeitz5746]

It's not _just_ a reference to Goku; *Woody Woodpecker* _also_ is a blue creature with green eyes! When it is said that Sonic's creator mixed and matched features from Mickey Mouse and Felix the Cat, some of Woody's personality leaked in. Given the origin of Sonic's design, this makes perfect sense.

[@riqopowpow]

Idc Green eyes Classic Super Sonic it's peak

[@Themaskededitor4]

I wasn’t even paying attention I was vibing to the music

[@darren8453]

Is it possible he was intended to have green eyes on the earliest sprite designs - hence the cull of blue shades to make space. Then they changed their mind for some reason but left the palette alone due to time crunch. Then when coding super sonic they have the idea of giving him green eyes, only again they are under time constraints so they start with sonic sprites and forget to fix the eyes in some?

[@PikachuGamerSMT]

The green eyes are totally a super cyan reference which is why going to Pocket Adventure then Adventure 1 is so cool cuz Green eyes for just Super then for base and Super then Green in base but Red in Super (Then Shadow has Red in base which makes him seem stronger than anyone else)

[@henrystickminfan2]

3:00 me: he's gonna mention super saiyan's green eyes, isn't he?

[@someguy0nthen3t]

maybe it was a mistake, but then the future development teams thought it was intentional

[@JeffIndigo]

It seems that the dragon Ball inspiration makes sense as to why they were green on purpose. In my little head-cannon, when Sonic goes super-sonic in this game, it permanently has an effect on his eye color which leads to his look in Sonic adventure... that is until Sega puts an official response as to why themselves.

[@refth6893]

Come to think of it, does anyone think Super Sonic's green eyes inspired Modern Sonic's green eyes?

[@edstargalactic]

Could somebody tell me the name of the music? I think this a bad time to ask something for the background rather than The Green Eyes Problem.

[@SilverSonic1992]

Endless Mine Zone from Sonic 3.

[@SpinKaDash]

This channel is such a blessing- Also do you still have a Discord server?

[@sliceofstrauss]

I personally believe it was a mistake initially by they leaned into it but forgot to change some of the bigger pieces of SuperSonic art in the game

[@LeoSantano]

I like to think they left the green eyes in origins to better connect the classics to adventure and beyond. But, the eye debacle currently has no truth established.

[@tehflame350]

I genuinely can't believe that people are starting and argument for something so small (LITERALLY).

[@pootispastry397]

Why would they keep that as a reference to dragon ball, but refuse hyper sonic, because according to one of the developers "We didn't want him to be too similar to another spiky haired protagonist" when asked if hyper sonic would ever appear

[@TheMasonGamer]

Idk why this is surprising, he never had green eyes anywhere else and they were black in the end sprite of Super Sonic

[@ZonicMirage]

Considering Dragon Ball (Z) was an absolute cultural phenomenon at the time, it makes sense. Together with Eggman aping Star Wars, it's fun to see developers being fellow nerds.

[@FinalHopeTrio]

I think it's Classic Sonic transitioning to Modern a little early. Generations and 3D Classic games don't show it at all, but here's my reasoning why I think it's a transition: Classic has no colored irises, but the power of the emeralds have shown in modern games to change Sonic's green eyes to red (Also seen in the Sonic 2 movie). In Sonic 2, it was just a fraction of the power we saw in Sonic 3. Plus, animations often use the Sonic 3 artstyle for modern Sonic while sticking with S1/S2 sprites for Classic. So, This has to mean that Classic was transitioning to modern and using more abilities when hyper just like Modern does sometimes when Super, unlike how Classic just gets higher jumps, faster speed, and near-total invincibility.

[@longlivetheblackmamba2-8-24]

Clearly was intentional imo. This is even more backed up by the fact that after that sonic having green eyes became the norm of course in base but also I believe other sonic game’s before adventure 1 when super sonic was given red eyes

[@gengar-1997]

One word. Intentional.

[@Chisette_FG]

I came for info and I vibed to Endless Mine the whole vid.

[@yonaguy6978]

Games of that age were constantly taking glitches as features too

[@AlanLegal742]

Hey, what about the dragon in doomsday? May you say more about him

[@just_sonic]

Can I just decide Classic has the green eyes and Modern's ones are red? lol

[@SeelkadoomSonicBlack]

Not funny

[@just_sonic]

@@SeelkadoomSonicBlack k???

[@Ablyeon2002]

This is why that one theory was made where basically Sonic changes his normal eye color to whatever his super form eye color is I mean his super form used to have green eyes and guess who now has green eyes you guessed it Sonic and with his super form now kind of having blue eyes it would only make sense for his eyes to turn red in his normal form and it would honestly be a great idea it would show he has grown stronger not only in his super form but his normal state as well especially when it comes down to chaos energy mastery and it would explain why Knuckles has purple eyes because he was born to guard the master emerald and was trained in chaos energy stuff also the hyper form has purple eyes which would just show how strong Knuckles is in the whole chaos energy mastery stuff hence why he knows how to knock People out of super forms it isn't because he is hitting them really hard no he just knows how to manipulate the chaos energy in someone to leave the body which makes them turn back to normal

[@wildberrysherbert3803]

Hyper forms don't actually have purple eyes, that was a fan thing, Hyper Sonic still has green eyes in S3&K.

[@Jsysilvaa]

idk @@wildberrysherbert3803

[@Okeana_Aster]

Do you think they used this as the reason why Sonic has green eyes in his Modern iteration, even if it was unintentional originally ?

[@SilverSonic1992]

I don't think there has been any official word on the topic, but in my own opinion I think it is certainly possible.

[@Okeana_Aster]

@@SilverSonic1992 Okay neat

[@lilacocto9103]

Frankly? If it was a mistake, it likely would've been corrected in S3&K. But it wasn't, plus like you said? Sega themselves drew blatant inspiration from Dragon Ball and it's Super Saiyan form which gives Goku green eyes. Honestly, one mistake in later iterations of Super Sonic that i've noticed is him having red eyes

[@randominternetman8177]

i think super sonic having red eyes was because they wanted to take away inspiration from super saiyan. notice how in sonic 2, super sonic is noticeably more muscular and has more quills, whereas in sonic 3, he loses the muscle and extra quills. and then by the time of adventure, he's just a yellow sonic with shadow's quills and red eyes. and then in heroes, they finally cemented the design with all his quills spiked up (instead of the outer four). so it isn't a mistake.

[@KnucklesWTD-uu3ps]

​@@randominternetman8177or because those games have different artists

[@thomasainsworth6553]

its intentional, sonic is a clone of goku, when goku turns super sayian his eyes turn green/teal aswell.

[@jytvreal]

3:56 eh in pocket edition sonic has green eyes because of the redesign

[@madekillasam1553]

Pocket edition💀

[@jytvreal]

@@madekillasam1553 pocket adventure in ohio

[@madekillasam1553]

@@jytvreal this ain't minecraft

[@GiovanniKody100]

It’s not a mistake, ✨IT’S A MASTERPIECE!✨

[@TrackedToasted]

go, the doors right there.

[@gyropizzamozzarella1012]

Classic sonic: Normal: Black eyes Super: Green eyes Modern sonic: Normal: Green eyes Super: Red eyes Super2: Blue eyes 😂

[@marquisesonic]

in sonic generators classic super sonic's eye's are also

[@DarkbluesEXE25]

Sonic Green Eyes Prediction Sonic modern

[@jaywarudo]

yes, yes they are. the data select portrait for super sonic has black eyes. the ending sprite for super sonic has black eyes. you know how knuckles' sprites have a tan crescent right? his ending sprite has a white crescent, like he's supposed to. that probably means while the in-game sprites have green eyes for super sonic, in canon they were actually black. like how in-game knuckles has his tan crescent, despite them actually being white.

[@SilverSonic1992]

There's artwork of Knuckles in the Sonic Jam Strategy Guide that shows him with a tan crescent.

[@jytvreal]

it definitely looked off

[@lunathir]

I think it was an accident that the just overlooked

[@Cheesebuger15]

It is a mistake, super sonic originally was supposed to have black eyes

[@SilverSonic1992]

How do you know?

[@cywh1711]

Hot take but Super Sonic looks better with green eyes than red eyes.

[@Ikari_ssjbkup]

honestly I don't like green eyed super sonic, it reminds me of super saiyan too much and then again it's not even the same shade of green. I prefer black or red eyed super sonic over green eyed super sonic any day

[@RobotnikRedefined]

The green eyes WERE at first a glitch, but with the release of Sonic Origins, and now that Sonic actually HAS an eye color being green, they decided to keep it.

[@miraclewillow1]

My guess is just it was a fuckup they thought looked cool so they kept it lol

[@risingrevolt]

LMFAO Bro we all know that is Mia

[@risingrevolt]

Btw they quote replied to that tweet admitting they were wrong

[@SilverSonic1992]

My intention is not to call anyone out specifically, it's merely to research the topic at hand.

[@TyvenPayne-sv6gw]

Sonics eyes are pretty weird

[@MacUser2-il2cx]

They aren't a mistake. It's a ripoff of Goku.