Sonic Adventure 2: The Value of Legacy

[@NezumiVA]

*FAKER? I THINK YOU'RE THE FAKE HEDGEHOG AROUND HERE. YOU'RE COMPARING YOURSELF TO ME? HAH. YOU'RE NOT EVEN GOOD ENOUGH TO BE MY FAKE.*

[@KyraHirowrath]

I'LL MAKE YOU EAT THOSE WORDS! (i'm excited for this! might not be able to comment while it's playing though, so ether way HI! :D)

[@Scorpionspear77]

“There’s no time to play games. You won’t even get the chance.” “You can’t get away this time! There’s only one real Sonic!”

[@hurt4322]

Isn't that from Sonic?

[@globalro-kickballleague7411]

*FAKER? WHO ARE YOU CALLING FAKER?*

[@dereknight861]

DO YOU *KNOW* WHO I AM?!?

[@chaospikes]

For me, SA2's story had a lot more meaning knowing about Sega's demise in the hardware market, I always saw SA2 as a farewell to Sega's legacy in the console market and the end of an era. It's more than obvious that the devs were fully aware that SA2 would end up as the Dreamcast's last big game and they wanted to end Sega's legacy in a high note, with the biggest and most ambitious Sonic game yet with the most epic and darkest story, and I think it's kinda fitting that a game about stopping the end of the world became Sega's last big game in their last system.

[@Justbngoode]

A quick note about sonic being the "ultimate lifeform." Gerald's research is implied to be based off of the ruins on angel island, most notably the mural that depicts Super Sonic fighting the final boss of S3&K. Shadows entire basis of creation is from that prophecy, so it makes sense that he looks like sonic (his upward quills being in reference to super sonics), and uses chaos energy. Sonic using chaos control isn't entirely an asspull once you consider this, as he is potentially better at every chaos energy application shadow can do. It's not coincidence that sonic could be the Ultimate Lifeform so much as it is that Shadow was literally designed to be Sonic

[@Max-Rtpmp]

THIS + Considering Gerald's interest for Echidna culture (recreation of the master emerald sanctuary) it's not this much of a reach to think that the biolizard is inspired by the Perfect Chaos mural in SA1

[@Rotomdextrash497]

@@connorschultz380 bio lizard is based off paintings of Chaos

[@Rotomdextrash497]

And shadow is based off paintings of Super Sonic vs Eggman in Sonic 3 and Knuckles

[@justcallmekai1554]

I agree with everything you said except that Sonic is better at using Chaos Energy thing. Shadow (especially after this game) is MUCH more adept at using Chaos in multiple ways that isnt just to trigger a transformation. He can Stop/Slow Time, Telport continously , summons Chaos Spears, Lances, Arrows, distort space to attack easier (Sonic Battle), erupt in massive explosions using Chaos Blast, Increases his power with Chaos Boost and taking off his inhibitor rings etc. Sonic on the other hand not counting his Super State shows rarely any usage of Chaos in a meaningful way or just cribs of of what Shadow does but way watered down (Chaos Control). He could use Chaos in his own way like the Light Speed Attack that could be a Sonic exclusive move.

[@shadybadger7896]

Fuuck dude mind blown

[@AizakkuAnalysis]

Any video that discusses in length how great sonic adventure 2 is, becomes my new favourite video of the year.

[@SelectClay]

About your Question 9, the one about why Shadow is a hedgehog when the prototype is a giant lizard. I like to think the prototype was made when Gerald was really getting into ancient Echidna research, and I bet he would find a way to Angel Island and maybe even the Hidden Palace. And what's in the Hidden Palace? The mural showing a hedgehog in a super state. And thus, the Ultimate Lifeform would take the shape of a hedgehog as the final product.

[@Synerco]

regarding the whole "it's not an objective analysis" thing, it's important to keep in mind that any aesthetic value judgement (or prioritization of relevance) of a work's objective qualities is subjective hell, even the idea that a game should be enjoyable to play is a subjective position. to suggest otherwise brings you into conflict with the old is-ought problem

[@NezumiVA]

A good point. I mostly lay it out because I'm tired of the regular old "you're biased because I disagree" comments, lol.

[@chirpchangeling]

God I love this game, and I adore it's story for what it tried to do. Maybe I just have a soft spot for cute forest critter characters dealing with genuinely dark circumstances, I did grow up a warrior cats fan after all, lol. Tbh a lot of the hole patching you did weren't things that occurred to me, but they're very interesting interpretations! I always thought about it as GUN genuinely mistaking Shadow as Sonic because Sonic had, in saving Station Square, once very publically changed color and power level by going super, and if GUN hadn't yet realized Shadow had gotten out, Sonic would be the next obvious suspect bc he's the only other notable hedgehog who also decidedly can change color and who's spines turn upward like Shadow's do when he does so. I think I never realized it might be a deliberate cover up specifically bc I'd always thought of GUN as kinda... stupid? Like, as comically Ultra-brazen goons. Just given the fact their first defining moment as an organization in the franchise is ramming a truck as wide as the Entire Street in broad daylight at Mach Fuck downhill in San Fran destroying countless civilian vehicles chasing after a 15 year old alien critter in soap shoes

[@SpiderandMosquito]

Can we all take a moment just a moment to appreciate that this is a children's game rated E for everyone. A mascot platformer pretty basic genre from the character that really helped popularise that genre in the nineties. And in this children's game for children we have government coverups, corruption within the military industrialized complex, a main antagonist who despite looking like a silly evil doppelganger for the cartoon hero is actually a tragic villain, a byronic antihero who was a genetically engineered Frankenstein style, and finally the main villain who is the canonical ancestor of our goofy cartoon mad scientist is also a tragic villain, gone mad with grief and who's been dead through *capital punishment* literally decades before the events of the game and who's words was the declaration for global annihilation as revenge for the liquidation of his life's work and murder of a *literal CHILD* !! This is the real shit right here!! XD

[@rainythemagician8830]

I actually never played the Adventure games (or most 3D Sonic games in general), since I never had any of the consoles they are available on. But I love hearing people's perpsectives on the games, it's really interesting. Makes me really want to play them eventually, just to experience it for myself, I know they have flaws, but every game does and I want to form my own opinion on them properly. My favorite thing about these types of videos is hearing the history of each player with them, how personal it feels and all, that actually attracts me way more than just a ultra-objective review.

[@NezumiVA]

Same here! Ultra objective reviews feel very sanitary and bare to me. I really enjoy listening to people talk about their personal experiences with something.

[@matheusdemello2323]

@@NezumiVA 42:02 Maybe the G.U.N. Commander *Abraham Tower* we saw in *Shadow the Hedgehog* hasn’t been promoted yet at the time of Sonic Adventure 2?

[@somedude3820]

A quick thing about how Gerald managed to reprogram Shadow... Gerald's message heavily implies the government tried to conceal Maria's death from him so he would keep working on Shadow, he only found out about her death on his own. So, what likely happened is Gerald heard this, started tampering with Shadow's memories, then G.U.N got wise to what he was doing and killed him.

[@topazlight1586]

Hi it's me I am a lot of kids who got their start with Sonic playing the GameCube port of SA2 ...Anyways, this is a REALLY good video... I revisited the first two Sonic Adventures recently via the Steam ports (with mods!) and had a really good time with them. It was a fun trip down memory lane, and I found myself only refining my appreciation for them. The Sonic Adventure duology just feel so packed with passion and ambition and sheer... FORWARD MOMENTUM for the series. I honestly just can't help but love them both, flaws and all.

[@frandolled]

the chao garden says trans rights

[@33pandagamer]

SA2's story is the reason I became a Sonic fan.

[@andyetnobananas]

Very nice~ I don’t agree with your assessment on the Knuckles/Rogue levels though. I’ve had a lot of fun exploring the hidden depths to each level, with each individual area so unique that I didn’t mind that it would take me forever. One part of the video I’m not a fan of is the plothole filling section. Not that you did a bad job of filling them, but I feel like being pedantic on whether or not the story makes “logical sense” is not a healthy way of critiquing stories. Saying “well AcTuAlLy this story does/doesn’t make sense because...” to someone implies that their interpretation of an art is wrong, a sentiment I don’t agree with. This is obviously not what you meant, but it’s ok to like a work that isn’t “logically consistent” if it not so bad as to pull you out of suspension of disbelief, and if it offers something else that captivates you, like atmosphere or emotionality. I know I love SA2’s story because of it’s moody biopunk aesthetic and it’s thrilling, high stakes action.

[@NezumiVA]

I feel that. The reason I dedicated so much time to talking about those supposed "plotholes" is simply because so many looks at and reviews of this game act like the story is a poorly cobbled together piece of garbage, in the overall narrative of "sonic bad, give me views", so I wanted to basically lay all of those insincere claims about the game's plot to rest.

[@Rotomdextrash497]

Thank you for teaching me something new! I never knew that the whole reason that G.U.N “mistook” Shadow for Sonic was for a government cover up! Honestly that’s really really good! As cheesy as this game is Sonic games have always inspired my creativity and are one of the reasons I love writing. It’s so funny to me how a small blue hedgehog can inspire people so much. This video made me appreciate this game even more than I already did, I know it isn’t perfect but I love this game so much. Thank you!

[@AmeLilith]

I feel so silly for never once considering that Shadow uploaded Gerald's message to the ARK and set things up during the time before Eggman showed up For me, I was one of those Nintendo kids who had SA2B as my first Sonic game which I played from start to finish. I had played Sonic 2 before, but I never finished it. Quite unfortunately, this also means that my first experience with SA1 was the DX port...

[@feiwong3634]

I love SA2, but my all time favorite 3d Sonic will always be the first Adventure, followed by Unleashed.

[@NezumiVA]

Been a long time since I've played Unleashed, but I'm definitely inclined to agree about SA1.

[@millabasset1710]

I didn't grow up with SA1 as much. My play history with Sonic is weird, my first introduction to him was in Sonic 2 when I was a toddler, I have vague memories of my cousins playing their genesis. my first game was SA2 and then I would play the Sonic Mega hits on gamecube later. I love SA2, but Sonic Unleashed I think still remains the best 3D Sonic game, the HD version of course.

[@lancer434]

I saw a theory before explaining that the bio-lizard was based after the murals of perfect chaos in sonic adventure one, and Shadow is based after the ancient mural of Super Sonic in Sonic 3

[@johnm7425]

Sonic Adventure 2: Battle is the first game I ever really "completed" and I actually just played through the whole story again with a friend a few weeks ago. It'll always be my favorite Sonic game (probably) but wowee zowee if you aren't correct about Mad Space. It sucks SO bad.

[@realer2748]

41:01 Your logic made sense but there’s also a canonical explanation for why the biolizard is this monster looking thingy and shadow is a hedgehog. The biolizard is based on perfect chaos and shadow is based on super sonic. There are murals depicting both perfect chaos and super sonic on Angel Island where it’s been said Gerald did a lot of research searching for “the ultimate life form”. This also gives more validity to shadow’s claim that sonic is the ultimate life form because he pretty much is prophesied to be just that. I’m pretty late but great video regardless.

[@idunno7427]

I've been binging your videos; I love your retrospectives sm :] No matter how long they are they're never boring, and it's clear how much you care about these things from how much knowledge you have

[@Angie2343]

Thank the gods that the charges against Sonic were dropped.

[@outofthisworldgaming9539]

It's kind of crazy to think but did saga forget in later games that half the moon was destroyed

[@smoovejuice9288]

Sweet I’m always looking for good new sonic tubers

[@matheusdemello2323]

42:02 Maybe the G.U.N. Commander *Abraham Tower* we saw in *Shadow the Hedgehog* hasn’t been promoted yet at the time of Sonic Adventure 2?

[@samuelazzaro]

You never explained how eggman pissing on the moon would have destroyed the earth before he could piss on it

[@NezumiVA]

Well, yeah, the moon being half destroyed is definitely unrealistic, lol. I wouldn't call that a plot-hole per say, though, more just a contrivance of fiction. Similar stuff happens in Dragon Ball or Assassination Classroom, or what have you. That kind of thing doesn't really bug me as much, though, especially if the story itself already has unrealistic elements (like talking animals, for example, lol.)

[@telliusbian]

Sorry to comment on an older video but thanks for posting the plothole part. I'm just a casual Sonic fan but it pointed out some things that flew over my head and I appreciate some of the nuances more

[@NezumiVA]

Hey, no worries! Feel free to comment on any video, no matter how old. It helps either way, lol.

[@BillehBawb]

yeah sorry this video isnt as good as your recent one because you arent using the fixed amy eyeliner mod here

[@BillehBawb]

this is a JOKE it is a good video

[@Cute___E]

Great video as always Nezumi, even if I'm late to seeing it. Though one plot hole that can't be covered up, why the fuck was there a rocket ship in the pyramid.

[@NezumiVA]

It _was_ a base of Eggman's. It's a bit theatrical and ridiculous, I'll admit, but given the things Eggman has built in the past (all of the badniks, his final boss machines, and even the various Death Eggs), I doubt he couldn't have built a rocket or two.

[@sungalaxia]

I actually really enjoy Knuckles'/Rouge's levels... Although yeah the "one shard at a time" thing is BS, and Security Hall is also complete BS.

[@NezumiVA]

I can see where they would appeal to some! They're just not really my cup of tea given some of the design decisions. (Though I will say, in replaying them WITH the fixed radar cheat, I enjoyed them a lot more.)

[@sungalaxia]

@@NezumiVA Honestly I'm not super great at platformers, so I think I like the slower pace/less enemy- or action-oriented nature of the shard hunts.

[@NezumiVA]

@@sungalaxia That's fair! I'm definitely very fond of platforming.

[@andyetnobananas]

Yeah, I do wish the three radars worked I this game, though I still enjoyed the sections otherwise. Aquatic Mine is one of my favourite levels in the franchise, actually XP

[@ultrairrelevantnobody1862]

I prefer Sonic Adventure 2's emerald radar (not entirely though). Hear me out. My first reason being it allows for less disorienting and more focused gameplay than in SA1. I never found the "three at a time" system to be as helpful in practice than it was on paper, since you're still finding three shards in a particular order. The only real difference was that it was less linear, which makes sense considering how flawed and poorly done the hint system was. The redesigned radar does make for a more straightforward playstyle though, something I prefer since it's easier to stay on track where I need to look for an emerald shard, and this is compounded even further by the revamped hint system. After some thinking, I don't know how you could make the hint system work with the less linear radar. Levels would have to be stupidly large for it to be serviceable in execution, but neither games have massive levels that take ages to get from one particular area to the next. SA2's levels are bigger, I won't deny that, but they still offer tons of shortcuts to get from one area to another quickly. Even Mad Space has this design philosophy of offering helpful springs and rockets, which makes the anti gravity system easier to work around. As a result, the change to the radar works in conjunction with the many MANY subtle and convenient intricacies to the levels. The emerald radar works like this. The first two are checkpoints, and the third is the goal. To find the first, second then last, you have to explore the levels. Doing this quickly is as simple as taking advantage of the control and your surroundings, whilst also using the hint system. The hint system always focuses on the shard that the radar can detect, with the first hint being cryptic, and the next two being a lot more obvious which does help ease first time players. Knuckles and Rouge are very fast characters with plenty of versatility, making travelling on the ground and in the air quick and effortless. The stand out set pieces and level geometry also make memorising the levels easier than it would usually be, and it really adds to the replay value, which in turn makes just using the first hint enough to get a good idea of where you need to go. It also helps that the introductory levels are very small in size, adding to the accessibility. I will say one area that's a step down is the beeping. Unlike SA1 which had more colours and would beep more frequently the closer you were to a shard, SA2 only has three colours and three beep frequencies. While this still got the job done, there were times where I might be getting near a shard, only to realise it's on the upper or lower platform (Security Hall in particular was a bit disorienting for this reason). This was rare and only happened occasionally in more claustrophobic levels, but it was still a little annoying. Other than that, I prefer this radar overall. The better hint system and more straightforward design ramps up the pace, and the exploration factor. It probably would be for the better if they bring back both radars for extra replayability and extra experimentation though.

[@dereknight861]

My First Sonic Game EVER!!! (Took me ten goddamn years to get past those heart attack causing boom boos)

[@sungalaxia]

Ha, I recognized Madoka by the song alone. It sounded suspiciously Yuki Kajiura-esque.

[@FantasyJared]

SHADOW THE HAJHOG IS A BITCH-ASS MOTHERF-Oh God, my sides. Why do you do this to me, Nezumi? =w=' Snapcube is now a legend. Anyway, another incredible video laddy! I don't kid around when I say you're one of the best video essay-type channels in all of KZbin. Your explanation of the story in particular for SA2 was genuinely awe-inspiring, and made me think about it in an entirely different way than I ever did before. Literally my only complaint throughout the entire video was that you didn't illustrate your point when talking about the confusing hint monitors, as I think an example of one of their lines would've truly shown what you were trying to say. Also, HELL YEAH Madoka Magica video! I haven't seen the series yet, but I've been meaning to for a long time. Looks genuinely incredible, I'll try and check it out before your video airs. Take care Nezumi! Love your stuff. PS: Attacked your Patreon, lol

[@CodinskiSchwartzando]

I only ever replay 3 of the emerald hunting stages: Wild Canyon, Pumpkin Hill, and Dry Lagoon. The rest are pretty garbage in terms of level design and aesthetic.

[@JulianAP_music]

Looks like I’m not the only one who uses iMovie for the thumbnails.

[@NezumiVA]

You might not be! Although I don't actually, lol. All photoshop.

[@muhammedraashid3667]

Bounce bracelet returns in Sonic 06. What are you talking about?

[@NezumiVA]

"More of a return in later games". Yeah, Sonic 06 was over a decade ago, I'm just disappointed it's not really been present in the series for a long time. I wasn't saying it's never been in a game other than SA2.

[@jeshirekitenkatt1212]

How dare you bring up the chao garden and mods in the same video and not mention the Chao World Extended mod >:0 0/10 video ruined and opinion nullified /s