Why Eggman Was A Threatening Villain And How He Became A Joke

[@thepjshow]

Grab Atlas VPN for $1.39/month before the deal expires: atlasv.pn/ThePJShow Thank you all so much for the patience and I hope you enjoyed the video:) So, what are your thoughts on Eggman as a character. Do you agree with my thoughts? Disagree? Let me know in the comments below and I will do my best to respond to all of them.

[@fusionbtw9940]

Yo love ur vids bro

[@neoluna1172]

you should do a video on how metal sonic as a charcter was ruined post sonic heros (and how IDW did a great job at giving him a badass arc and maintinaing some of his charcter after)

[@moosesues8887]

Make a video on luffy from one piece

[@thepjshow]

@@moosesues8887 When it comes to one piece, I'm slowly collecting the manga so I have only read up to volume 21. I have seen a few things past that, but I feel like I would need to read more in order to do a accurate character analysis.

[@muffinboykj5556]

8:32 Eggman piss on mooon 😂

[@IGSA101]

When Eggman has his respectful send-off to Sonic, if you quit you can listen to his inner thoughts on having finally beaten Sonic. Which reveals he was playing up the respect while basically celebrating himself on the inside.

[@themostdislikedchannel]

Yeah

[@Tarquin23]

What do you mean if you quit, as in, if you pause and quit during the cutscene?

[@EpilepticEnthusiasts]

Yah what the hell does this mean? Can you give us a video of it

[@IGSA101]

@@EpilepticEnthusiasts kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZSTf4Rprd6ZipI go to 9:00

[@EpilepticEnthusiasts]

@@IGSA101 oh wow damn, now that’s detail

[@copynpastekevin4389]

I feel like Eggman in the Sonic Movie is a great step in the right direction. Sure he’s extremely comical, but there were multiple scenes where he’s dealt with people who underestimate him. (Yeeting the biker, the bully drinking out of a straw story, even won some matches against Sonic) He’s what “Boost-Era” Eggman tried to be.

[@thepjshow]

Yeah. He was a bit more comedic, but he was very threatening and assertive. He was also very narcissistic and believed that he was truly above all other humans and that humans were worthless when compared to his robots. Above all, they managed to balance the tones with his character, unlike the Eggman in Lost World. Overall, it is a solid interpretation on the character and I can't wait to see what they do with him.

[@Thunder-Sky]

Not to mention that even when he was defeated and exiled to another planet, he immediately was like "well, time to invent my way back to earth" There was zero defeatism, he believes he can do it and thus he will

[@DeepEye1994]

@LeGameHen I really hope Jim Carrey doesn't retire before doing Sonic 3 and as a swan song to his career and an ending to this LA adaptation of Eggman gets an emotional/sober ending like that of SA2.

[@whowhat0]

not to mention he seemingly wiped out an entire country

[@Galgus2000]

@@Thunder-Sky If nothing else, Eggman is brimming with self-confidence.

[@theedwardian]

You can only have a villain suffer abject failure so many times before they become a joke. Word of advice to any future gamemakers, let the villain win sometimes, or at least throw in some stalemates and pyrrhic victories.

[@WaterKirby1994]

This is the problem with villains who prefer the direct approach compared to the villains who rarely do the fighting themselves. These villains in the 2nd Category are so powerful they may not see the heroes as worth their effort & simply let their underlings do the fighting & when they appear they always seem to have the advantage or else they vanish back to the darkness they came from. Sometimes the identity of the villain is a plot twist requiring they keep their identity secret.

[@Certamaniac]

Or have multiple villains.

[@Bustermachine]

@@Certamaniac Alternately, make eggman effective against the other villains even when Sonic struggles against them. Possibly even aiding Sonic, who could never defeat them on his own. Not out of any goodness mind you. But simple, sheer, unadulterated, ego that only he can be allowed to defeat the hedgehog.

[@braydengraves4655]

Agreed, you only need to replace the villain. Unless you pull a Lost World.

[@vintheguy]

Make a game where you win until you don't?

[@Laxhoop]

This is the villain who pissed on the moon, he deserves respect.

[@thepjshow]

Exactly

[@Thewaffle-nj5jc]

@@thepjshownot

[@likability6288]

@@Thewaffle-nj5jctf you mean not? He pissed on the moon

[@flopndrop]

F U MOON YOU NEVER HAD THE CHEESE I WANTED

[@CheesiX8]

​@@flopndrop pft, hero story fan.

[@TarsonTalon]

Eggman is the reason why 'Intelligence' and 'Wisdom' are two different stats in D&D, and real life.

[@ZachJ-0]

My understanding is intelligence is having knowledge and wisdom is knowing how to apply that knowledge. Similar foundations, but you're absolutely correct that they're inherently distinct from one another.

[@arcticflames6932]

@@ZachJ-0 i have high intelligent but low wisdom

[@exaggeratedswaggerofablackteen]

@@arcticflames6932 *press x to doubt*

[@SevenPr1me]

O, to be both smart and wise

[@leiferickson1494]

Ah yes, because D&D invented the concept of intelligence and wisdom

[@vegetadz7107]

I always agrees with your characters analysis . However , for Eggman being scared of Metal Sonic , i think it’s because he is the one who build it and in Heroes , he knows that he has absorbed the datas and how invincible he really is .

[@aerth6946]

Right in-character, too. "How can something I've built MYSELF, the greatest genius there is, be defeated?"

[@thrasher698]

"I realize now exactly what it is I have created. What the hell was I thinking making something this powerful that I cannot control?"

[@AHappyBlackGuy]

I think it’s also more of like he doesn’t have anything on hand to attack Metal Sonic with. It’s not like Adventure where Chaos attacked Eggman and left so Eggman had time to get the Egg Carrier and attack no Metal Sonic is in his face and he has no machines, no weapons, his army is running away so what could he do? I do think he was a bit *too* scared but I can understand him accepting defeat at that moment.

[@jamiegioca9448]

@@AHappyBlackGuy You know, Forces makes it look like Eggman never learns from his mistakes, but something tells me that in Heroes, he DID learn with his short scuffle with Perfect Chaos

[@silburrrrdurrr]

the electric bill

[@jeremyrossi2716]

On the topic of Engman being both intimidating and goofy as well as his early voice actors: Alfred Coleman as Eggman in the Real Time Fandubs walks that balance well and does justice to the character. There is a reason why Eggman’s Announcement is iconic.

[@BardockSkywalker]

Also, his evil laugh is actually kinda terrifying

[@Sanakudou]

This just reactivated a lost memory, that clip is an amazing piece of internet history!

[@liviwaslost]

Or that one clip when he becomes forklift certified.

[@IanFraser420]

I’m glad you said that, because I totally agree. I’d love to see a depiction of Eggman based on Alfred’s portrayal. His Eggman has everything you could want from the character, and this level of utter insanity that makes him completely unpredictable. I think that’s what could make him threatening, his insanity mixed with his intellect. He wouldn’t just be one step ahead of Sonic, he’d be walking on a completely different path altogether.

[@neotrix2009]

@@BardockSkywalker FREAKING AGREED

[@soybajo-kira8585]

I love how he was handled in the movies. He was funny, but not treated like a joke. He’s a genuine threat

[@agreedboarart3188]

He was just awful in the movies

[@fanofyoshi2238]

​@@agreedboarart3188No.

[@Fideothedog2021]

@@agreedboarart3188awful as in he’s an awful person or awfully handled?

[@noxiousworks]

@@Fideothedog2021pretty sure they meant awfully handled cus he was funny in the movies, but they didn’t really make him as threatening as we should see him

[@realdragon]

He came back from completely different dimension using Sonic's quill. As far as I know other dimensions weren't known to humans before and Dr. Robotnic casually opens portal to Earth

[@biloldaboi]

Fun fact: In the Fleetway comics, whenever his badniks failed to capture Sonic, they will be forced to jump in this pit of lava and it will turn them into new robots and we all know that there are animals still trapped in the badniks so he basically killed more than hundreds of animals.

[@jcharmaine1]

More like sad fact because of the animals

[@Ohmargod]

@@jcharmaine1 fun fact, no real animal was hurt by making the fleetway comics.

[@jcharmaine1]

@@Ohmargod ok

[@coltonshortell8075]

He isnt that cruel, I know that for a fact

[@arcmen2275]

The animal help with the robot function so they should be safe inside it.

[@keshiaanders6452]

I personally prefer Eggman being a balance of both serious & comedic. Like Aku from "Samurai Jack," Mojo Jojo from "The Powerpuff Girls," Hades from "Hercules," and most Power Rangers villains.

[@hariman7727]

So live action Robotnik. ;)

[@Curlyheart]

Or plankton

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

And Ice King from the early season of Adventure Time.

[@NeyamRye]

Right

[@satibel]

@@hariman7727 yeah, I just watched the movie, and it's imo one of the best robotnik. basically rick sanchez but with robots.

[@PigBoy99]

13:06 I love how even though Tails responds with some cheesy “we all did it together” thing that doesn’t really relate to the conversation, Eggman just tells him that he’s right. He doesn’t want to make Tails feel bad in a somber moment of grief, and he doesn’t want to upset the people surrounding him, the only people who care about him.

[@cupio-stardust]

Honestly that moment made me feel like tails was his son or something, just felt wholesome.

[@sethbudrik8906]

I'm pretty sure it's implied that eggman has respect for tales as a fellow inventor, but that tails is just really young, inexperienced, and niave. Perhaps maybe like eggman was.

[@combativeThinker]

@@sethbudrik8906 They’re kindred spirits. I mean, did you hear how he spoke of his grandfather? And how it tore him up inside when he discovered the depths to which Gerald fell in his grief?

[@ellienugent2000]

@@sethbudrik8906 Uh oh...Is THAT why Tails was like the way he was in Chaos World?

[@ditto7047]

I never did get that. Yeah, Gerald wasn't exactly a saint, but Eggman literally blew up half the moon to make a statement and was ready to go through with using the Eclipse cannon on Earth. I get that he'd rather rule the world than destroy it, but the dude doesn't really have any room to talk.

[@DatMageDoe]

A major problem with recurring villains like Bowser and Eggman is a thing called villain decay. They're at their most menacing in their first outing as a villain, and to preserve that, subsequent entries need to either scale up the evil by making them do more evil things, strike the hero where it hurts, like killing a loved one or destroying their passion project, or let the villain win. Otherwise, the villain will lose some of their threat because we've dealt with them before, and after said villain has been defeated tens of times, it's really hard to keep them feeling like a true villain. The logical extreme of this is Team Rocket, which Eggman as fallen to a couple times in the past, namely in the Boom TV series, where they're less "villain" and more "minor inconvenience."

[@Darknova591]

If this keeps happening Eggman will become king dedeade where he just not a major threat and being overshadowed by another new and threatening villain.

[@cleomi8696]

​@@Darknova591at least Dedede had a proper send off as a villain in the Super Star Ultra Revenge of the King side story where he gives it his all and more but it's still not enough so he gives up. He went from a villain to somewhat of a rival to a friend. I doubt other villains like Egmman would receive similar treatment if that were the case

[@m05513]

I mean Bowser does beat Mario quite often in the beginning of the games: Paper Mario he outright wins at the start. Mario Sunshine his son gets him jailed Mario Galaxy he steals Peaches Castle while Mario is there Mario Oddysey he beats Mario in a 1v1 Mario Bros U, 3D World and Wonder, he has a confrontation with Mario there at the start of the game, and gets rid of him. Bowser is seen as a joke because of a mix of speedrunners annihilating him stupidly fast (Especially in Mario Bros 1/3 and Mario 64), and the Mario + Luigi RPG games taking every chance to dunk on him.

[@tristenweber-nd1sv]

I always liked Bowser. I always thought he was a cool villain with cool designs. However, Bowser's Fury was the first time I was scared of Bowser.

[@MorrisPXG]

@@cleomi8696Eggman is kinda in between Dedede and Bowser is some regards,Sure He hates Sonic,But He has Formidable Respect on Sonic,As stated In Sonic Frontiers. While Dedede has fully Respect Kirby,Bowser didn’t even Respect Mario in a Slightest

[@firepanda1874]

In eggmans defense in heros, he knew exactly how strong metal sonic had become at that point and knew that the 7 emeralds were the only chance they had. Back in adventure, he went up against perfect chaos with an idea of how strong he was, since eggman had been with chaos for all of his forms, he knew how much power he had gained with each emerald, so he figured he had fire power to take him down, not realizing just how strong perfect chaos actually was

[@lordhellstrande7188]

He also had no control over any of his robots and his mech had been recently destroyed

[@Icalasari]

Still, might have been a little more fitting if he was more, "As much as I _hate_ to admit it, I do not have a plan" and basically cemented it that all he had was Sonic in this case, with comms to help in the final fight and basically go, "With my intelligence and you being too stubborn to _die,_ we should be able to take that traitorous titan down"

[@schwarzerritter5724]

Eggman is a massive ego. Of course he would think he can defeat a giant monster, the only thing he would truly be afraid of is his own perfect creation. But then again, he fought without hesitation against Gemerl and Heavy King.

[@BrandonSwinney-j2v]

@@Icalasari this is such a great comment

[@teenageapple3788]

I love Eggman's big goof moments, but I also love him being a genuine threat and has the guns to back it up. The movie version of him is a perfect example. Jim Carrey, the writers, everybody involved in the story of the movies have blown it out of the park with Robotnik as a character

[@donathan2933]

agreed

[@vreikezen8268]

And he has that goofiness too? Or I guess trying to be hip and cool while being outdated.

[@PokayP2]

This exact reason is why the Archie Comics had my favourite version of the character

[@donathan2933]

@@PokayP2 same

[@gsm4919]

Unleashed is that interpretation of Eggman. He’s a MAJOR threat the guy literally split the planet apart however he has comedic moments that actually make you smile compared to other sonic games where when he tries to be funny it’s more annoying

[@falseseto3892]

Playing devil’s advocate for a second, I think the main reason Eggman was having such a negative and defeatist attitude in the face of Metal Sonic in Sonic Heroes was the fact that EGGMAN CREATED HIM! In the previous games, whenever he was betrayed or inconvenienced by Chaos, Shadow, Rouge or the Space Colony ARK itself, he was content in the knowledge that since they weren’t his creations, he could always devise a counter strategy or robotic creation to come out on top. But Metal Sonic was HIS creation. Eggman made Metal Sonic to be the perfect robot to destroy Sonic and his friends. Especially when Metal Sonic copied the life form data of Sonic, Shadow and just about everyone else that could be considered a potential threat. Then transforming into a giant Metal Overlord, Eggman knew he couldn’t create something to beat it. Or at the very least, not create something fast enough to prevent Metal Sonic from killing him. At that point, it’s hard to determine if Eggman should be the type of narcissist to believe his creations are perfect and are above reproach, or if he should be the type of narcissist to think he can top himself and his robotic creations. I could be wrong though.

[@Brucifer2]

Not to mention Metal Sonic had copied Eggman's own bio-data, he had essentially achieved Eggman's mind. Anything that could possibly be planned by Eggman couldve been counter planned by Metal. So Eggman needed something he has only lost to...Sonic/Super Sonic.

[@falseseto3892]

@@Brucifer2 True, true. I forgot in which comic series this was (Archie, IDW, etc.), but someone stated that Sonic the Hedgehog is Chaos personified. That’s why he is one of the few beings to be able to harness the power of the Chaos Emeralds. That means that no matter what your strategy is, no matter how much you prepare, no matter how much you calculate, there’s no such thing as a foolproof plan against Sonic the Hedgehog. His very nature will render even the best laid plans into something unexpected. For me, that’s a halfway decent explanation for why Eggman’s genius, Metal Sonic’s engineering, and other enemies Sonic has gone up against have failed. Because there’s no preparation for Sonic and the Chaos he unleashes.

[@kylzepolaczkowaty2197]

It's like when I'm making yeast based cake and come back to it 3 hours later I'm afraid for what has grown in the bowl

[@kylzepolaczkowaty2197]

He PISSED ON THE MOOOOOOOOON

[@franciscoarzapalozapata4610]

@@falseseto3892 the comics are not canon so no

[@henrycervantes249]

What these character retrospectives have taught me is that MANY writers either underestimate these characters or just don’t know what to do with them, they have a fine line to walk across, like Sonic he can be cocky, but not to the point where he’s an asshole, Knuckles is deceivable, but not to the point where he’s an idiot, Tails relies on his pals a bit, but not to the extent where he can’t do anything without Sonic holding his hand, and Eggman has a goofy kind of charm, but not to the extent where it’s basically his whole thing and gets overtaken by the fact he’s still a disastrous villain, i’m happy that Ian Flynn is writing Frontiers as what i have seen of his work implies he knows how to tightrope across that line for these characters and their writing to an extent, and i know Frontiers looks VERY shaky but i do expect at least a better written cast than what we have been getting these past years for these characters…

[@bunger2083]

Especially considering the fact that Ian knows these characters' personalities, atleast to the extent that SEGA allows him to.

[@kingdedede3547]

Good News frontiers was one of the Best sonic games

[@Spudpotato08]

The writers make the characters pal

[@hattoripool1533]

Dr Eggman is basically the Dr Neo Cortex of Sonic the hedgehog now with the main difference being the fact that Cortex is a little more pathetic and we actually kinda like how pathetic he is

[@jamiegioca9448]

Now that I think about it, Crash does feel like a cartoonier version of Sonic

[@hattoripool1533]

@@jamiegioca9448 and it was originally called Sonic’s ass game

[@playerback7722]

Last time Eggman did something dangerous was Forces and he did try to attemp to kill Sonic in Generations and was close unlike Cortex who barely came close to killing Crash even in About Time.

[@yourlocalcashregister1123]

And they both have my two favorite voice actors: Mike Pollock and Lex Lang.

[@playerback7722]

@@yourlocalcashregister1123 yep

[@AHappyBlackGuy]

I always hated Eggman’s portrayal in Unleashed. You have the opening cutscene where he outsmarts and defeats Sonic in his Super form no less and it’s like “Oh shit Eggman did it! And he sent Sonic to his death and split the world apart he really means business this time.” Then you see him in the Africa continent and nobody is afraid of him and a goddamn child throws a rock at him, hits him and even his robot is laughing at him. Then in the ending cutscene where he tries to kick Orbot and misses and lands on his ass like a loser. Like why would I take this guy seriously when literally no one not even the game does?

[@prosecutorwalton]

I honestly agree with this sentiment. You can't flip-flop with how intimidating you want a villain to be like that. If you want to have him serious and funny, use humour that won't degrade him as a threat.

[@manoftruth0935]

@@prosecutorwalton he played to Sonic’s overconfidence there, and Orbot did bring up Eggman discarded the Chaos Emeralds along with Sonic.

[@gabrielarrhenius6252]

Me who only have sonic unleased and never beating it, but still knows how bad eggman was in it.

[@TheRealTact]

😂

[@slameno-JR]

@@gabrielarrhenius6252 probably one of the reasons it became underated So much shit caused the good parts being overlooked

[@Iazibones]

Eggman is probably the smartest and dumbest character in the series.

[@falseseto3892]

It’s both frustrating and hilarious to watch characters that are as flawed as they are brilliant. Makes for some compelling entertainment.

[@thesonicadventureartstylei9679]

He literally said snooPINGAS Always

[@c8tv1secundario54]

@@thesonicadventureartstylei9679 snooPINGAS usual*

[@runningoncylinders3829]

@@falseseto3892 The Brain (Pinky and The Brain), Sheldon Cooper (The Big Bang Theory), Sheldon Plankton (SpongeBob), Wile E Coyote (Looney Tunes), etc.

[@fellascallmethedrink]

@@runningoncylinders3829 I just realized that Eggman and Plankton are actually similar asf, they both just want to take over the world, only difference being that Plankton wants the secret formula from the Krusty Krab.

[@finalbossofschool8724]

His peak definitely was when he pissed on the moon

[@BraylonRamsey]

Truly disthpicable!

[@anthonynixon3706]

I’ve come to make an announcement

[@Icalasari]

I did like most of Eggman's threat to the Zeti. It was like he got absolutely _tired_ of being treated as a joke, and his narcissism finally made him go, "I will literally devour you while you are alive and screaming you pompous wretch", and hell, him actually breaking that wall is intimidating as fuck, and helps remind that _he regularly works on robots including moving them to stations._ Lifting weights that would make some strong men blush He just needed to maintain his cohesive, smarmy speech patterns when punching the wall

[@phantom-ri2tg]

Eggman is super human. it just does not stand out because he is less super human than Sonic and friends.

[@theenderdestruction2362]

Well I mean the dude is round like he lifts heavyweight and then drops them soooo deadlifter extreme

[@glitchy3963]

Not only that (I know I’m late but still) in the IDW comics, he’s CANONICALLY 6 Ft tall and all that “fat” is pure muscle as he grabbed Scurge and the duck dude and slam them or toss em like a salad, Eggman may be here for shits and giggles, but he does not play around when he gets serious

[@brycenlanager1216]

Going a bit on how intimidating Eggman’s voice was in the old Adventure games, I always remembered the way Eggman takes in the final Tails Boss fight. He isn’t loud, he isn’t brash. He just got beat by sonic and Sonic’s little friend (in Eggman’s view) just thwarted his backup plan. He is pissed, and just the low way he tries to intimidate Tails made it clear to me he was not playing around anymore.

[@DeadSpaceWing]

It also happens during the entirety of Tails' story. Best seen during the cutscenes before the Egg Hornet fight. Unlike where in Sonic's cutscene where he's brash and loud, in Tails' cutscene his voice is gravely and intimidating because to Tails, he's still quite threatening. I always liked that little attention to detail.

[@fireemberess]

yes! that's one of my favorite scenes in any sonic game! it's my favorite Eggman scene. I was 4 when I first played sonic adventure when it was brand new on the dreamcast and that scene always shook me!

[@sonhegdeog7454]

I can just hear the background music in my head

[@WaterKirby1994]

Eggman was racing Tails to the Missile immediately after the Egg Carrier went down. Then after his defeat at the hands of Tails he goes to Final Egg where he fights Sonic in the Egg Viper. Tails then goes to the Mystic Ruins the next day where he meets up with Sonic & Eggman finds Chaos still alive in the jungle while furious at how Sonic had just defeated him. You forgot that Sonic went through the Lost World Stage before he went through Final Egg.

[@renaterrier935]

That final Eggman boss theme from SA1... chilling

[@awsomedude23456]

I think most people don’t talk about 06 egg man. He spoke with a much calmer and laid back tone similar to how he was in the adventure era, like he was always a step ahead of the heroes

[@magicalmonsters2013]

Just a shame that not many people probably listened to that Eggman much because of his design seeming bad, which (personally) of all the critiques towards 06 I find that one the weakest

[@kanseidorifto2430]

Personally I find this version my favorite, and the vibe he gives off compared to the others in aesthetic is a fascinating touch that I like in the contained story of '06.

[@Rubyshedinja33]

🤨

[@awsomedude23456]

@@Rubyshedinja33 what

[@edge1247]

@@kanseidorifto2430 Sonic 06 was my first Sonics game I thought that game was a masterpiece untill I was about 11

[@seantaylor424]

In defense of Heroes, I can see Eggman thinking all hope is lost when one of his perfect creations runs amok, especially when it took over his entire army at that point. He thought he could control Chaos because he doesn't respect anyone but himself, but he assumed Metal Sonic invincible because anything made by himself HAS to be good. I actually like the sophistication of Eggman in 2006, since his ensemble ever since Adventure looks like he thinks himself elegant and not JUST a kid having the time of his life, but I can see how his robots this time around are oddly restrained from his trademark style. He's still a pompous genius throwing himself a party and he's still a threat (even reliving his gambit on the Ark by manipulating Sonic's emotions to get the Chaos Emerald in his Fake Solaris scene), but I see why others thought he was too plain and that it would have been cool for him to do something more proactive in the finale (though, he didn't have any machines with him, so it doesn't feel entirely out of character for him).

[@jesvincoulse7809]

Strangely though. You can have a comedic and threatening villain, even without much seriousness. The main point is that the villain's threat is never part of the joke. It wouldn't solve the issue, but I feel it's the biggest contributing factor

[@worldweaver2691]

any examples?

[@spongemaster]

@@worldweaver2691 Aku from Samurai Jack

[@worldweaver2691]

@@spongemaster oh yeah. really gotta watch that show.

[@christianjimenez2611]

Dr. Nefarious from the Ratchet and Clank series balances that very well. Yeah, he's this hammy over the top villain with anger issues and a screaming voice, but he has the genius, weapons and skills to back it up.

[@Breakaway-ic5gj]

@@worldweaver2691 Perfect Cell from DBZA, absolutely hilarious and threatening, or like most of the villains from that series or MGR: Revengeance.

[@razeboxanimations3215]

Adventure 2 Eggman was Eggman at his most peak from being a threatening villian by threatening the President to outsmarting Sonic and Tails and to eventually realising his mistake he made by following his Grandfather's plan Both him and Knuckles were written at their peak in Sonic Adventure 2 Also PJ you should make a video of how Knuckles is like in Sonic X and maybe even Eggman himself too

[@thepjshow]

I plan to make a large video talking about Sonic X as a whole (although I may split that into a few parts).

[@razeboxanimations3215]

@@thepjshow When do you plan to make that just out of curiosity ?

[@goldenrichard9313]

And Tails' written character was at his peak in Sonic Adventure 2 as well.

[@razeboxanimations3215]

@@goldenrichard9313 Yeah I guess so I mean he didn't back away when he assumed Sonic was dead and instead he vowed to avenge and was at good terms with Eggman at the end of the game

[@jamalhartley5863]

It's funny cuz even Sonic was like "you've turned into a big time villain doctor"

[@szechuon6971]

What you said any peak Eggman makes me really appreciate what Jim Carey does for the character in the Sonic movies. He’s zany, but he’s definitely a narcissist and a threat, and you see that in how Sonic, despite his quips, does take him seriously.

[@bakedbeans5494]

Carrey*.

[@donathan2933]

Agreed. Ppl shouldn’t overlook Carey’s Eggman just cuz he’s goofy, it doesn’t matter how “goofy” you are if you are an actual threat towards the villain

[@DiddyBom]

@@donathan2933 i think carey does such an amazing job because he makes eggman funny, but he also makes him SCARY! An evil genious making overpowered machines is who eggman is!

[@donathan2933]

@@DiddyBom exactly. Eggman always had a goofy aspect to his character. His goofy appearance or antics hides the sadistic, destructive scientist that he truly is

[@funnelvortex7722]

Honestly, movie Robotnik's "goofiness" makes him even more terrifying, he gives off some real Joker vibes and you can tell anyone who gets near him is actively shitting their pants.

[@ChillavaKirby]

I was unreasonably pissed off by Kunckles’s line “normally I’d just laugh at an Eggman plan” in Sonic Forces because of how painfully unfaithful to the characters they’ve become. Eggman has never just been a joke to them, and for them to try implying that’s always been the case is so disheartening.

[@fanofyoshi2238]

"Unreasonably" And why would it not be reasonable?

[@trinis8726]

​@@fanofyoshi2238maybe they meant unbelievably XD

[@fanofyoshi2238]

@@trinis8726 Plausible XD

[@flameofthephoenix8395]

@@fanofyoshi2238 While, it's just a game, so a little unreasonable.

[@fanofyoshi2238]

@@flameofthephoenix8395 This is a 10 month old comment, so my stance on this may have changed, but ok.

[@tasmsinist3rsix664]

8:25 I remember that situation being a little different. It was something about Shadow, Eggman's wife, and Obama.

[@bakedbeans5494]

Lol.

[@alexcerny5881]

XD

[@thenyan3095]

SUPER LAZER PISS

[@nnnnmhughuuhhjiijj9457]

Man...... I just realized, Raiden from MGRR would hate Eggman, he's basically doing what PMCs are doing in Metal Gear universe and he hates Obama.

[@ilikeceral3]

Alfred Coleman saved Dr. Robotnik

[@bryanos118]

One of my favorite Eggman lines is from the comics, when they tell him that his subordinates are busy, to which he replies "I dont care that they're busy. When I say jump they ask how high, on the way up."

[@darthvaderdylan]

comics eggman is a differnet breed, he was willing to some messed up things just because he could.

[@CinnamonKilljoy]

Damn, savage.

[@DemonDethchase]

I thought Mike Pollock was great in Sonic and Tails R, though that was largely down to the dialogue avoiding all Meta Era tropes like the plague and it not being afraid to take itself seriously. Hell even within the first episode, Eggman pulls something of an Unleashed, beating Sonic at the very start as he's trying to use the Chaos Emeralds by causing them to shatter which sets the story in motion.

[@tailsprowerfan2729]

I agree I loved that series it gets all the characters right And tails thank god for the characters fix now let’s hope sega can do it

[@tetsuyatsurugi9250]

And later he went fully Deem Bristow“ losers lose all of their lives « is not something modern Eggman would say and he was so intimidating, sadistic, dangerous and desperate howewr has some human moments. Acknowledging of his loss is also someting modern Eggman wouldn’t do. I LOVE him. Mad props tomEmi Doryan and if course Mike

[@DeltaBlazin]

Hell yeah, Sonic & Tails R is perfection, and also proof that Mike Pollock can do a serious Eggman, it really comes down to the dialogue he's being given.

[@DemonDethchase]

@@DeltaBlazin Shadow was also thrown a huge lifeline in Sonic and Tails R, with it being the best he's been written since 06, and sounding more like he should than some bad Vegeta parody as he does under Kirk. But I do think Tails got the biggest save out of all of them, as he does more in those 10 episodes than what he's done in the last 10 years of the Meta Era worth of games. Though saying that, within the first 30 seconds of the first episode he does more than he did in the whole of Forces. Then by episode 7, he does more in the 10 minute running time of that episode than the last 10 years. It's also like the Virgin Meta Era Tails, an arrogant little beat who can't even fight his way out of paperbag vs the Chad Sonic and Tails R Tails, a brave little fox cub who fights bravely and can use the Chaos Emeralds to go Super and stand as a true equal by Sonic's side If Frontiers can be at least half as good as the radio drama, I think I'd be quite happy.

[@stevensteviepryde5888]

I think one of my favorite Eggman roles is in the first Sonic Mega Man crossover. Thanks to having a second evil scientist to accompany him, it's a great showcase for how ruthless he can be. The event that causes the big rift between Eggman and Wily was that Wily just wanted to defeat and humiliate Light, but Eggman took it a step further and threw him out of the Wily Egg with the intent to kill him so he's no longer a threat. And by the end when both Eggman and Wily are defeated, Wily just reflects on his defeat while Eggman risks shattering his reality because he refuses to lose after coming so close. It shows how threatening, cold hearted, and persistent the character can be with competent writing.

[@savingthrows719]

Eggman: "As a child, I looked up to my grandfather because of all the great things he accomplished in his life. He was my hero! and I wanted to be a great scientist like him. But... Did he really mean to destroy us?" Tails: "I don't know, but what I do know is that I don't care!"

[@undeadbatman9762]

And than the game makes you play a secret Eggman vs Tails fight

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

I watched an SA2 Randomizer video, and right after this dialogue quote came up, Shadow cut it off saying: "You are one pathetic creature!" Absolutely hilarious lmao

[@Otome_chan311]

I really like that line from eggman because it shows that eggman's goal isn't to destroy the world or even conquer it, but *improve* it by mechanizing everything using his intellect, and then in a narcissistic fashion branding himself on everything. He *thinks* he's the good guy which is why his grandfather's actions baffled him so much.

[@PicassosCat]

Tbh it works. He's a genius. As smart as tail is I don't think he comprehends what he thinks. That said, that means they made everyone else a little dumber cause almost anyone in real world would know what to say unless they're awkward

[@valletas]

@@Otome_chan311 thats honestely the biggest miss understand of his character He isnt trying to destroy the world he just think things will be better if he was in control

[@kingofthe_humanz8285]

A perfect eggman (for me) would start off goofy and then become more and more menacing as the game progresses. That way the story also corresponds with the ganeplay. The enemies are more powerful because eggy is ramping up his aggression, and doesn’t want you foiling his plans Endgame eggman should be threatening, he shouldnt react to sonic’s disses and punchlines, when hes winning hes kackling and when he loses hes furious. That is eggman to me

[@ericfisher1737]

Underrated comment here

[@ChrisRC2008]

Good idea

[@CrimsonCreationAGM]

I think the Sonic movies gave eggman his credibility back (and the same for knuckles) yeah he’s a bit comedic for a threatening villain but still i think Eggman discovering a way to power his machines with sonic’s speed from his hair quill is a genius move which pays off considering nothing of the sort has been done before in the games (Unless you want to include Eggman escaping Sonic in the sonic3&K final boss where the only explanation really is he used one of the speed shoes power up boxes)

[@phantom-ri2tg]

As many chao garden fans of Adventure 2 can confirm Eggman can run very fast.

[@theblackmoonrising]

​​@@phantom-ri2tgScrew that, even the classic Sonic games showed that he was fast. Man ran faster than Sonic 💀

[@cbasuwu1007]

I like the idea of Eggman being somehow a joke... After all of the godlike creatures that he saw, and were obviously more of a threat than him, he probably just realised how he cant barely compare

[@taviethestick]

And Then You Rewatch The Video Again And Then "Oh Right Eggman Is A Huge Narcissist."

[@slavishentity6705]

Except he does compare. He made Metal Sonic.

[@miniaturejayhawk8702]

​@@slavishentity6705 not exactly. Metal sonic is just bad future sonic. Eggman never really *made* him.

[@hydrolysis77]

@@miniaturejayhawk8702then….who made metal?

[@lordx7013]

​@@miniaturejayhawk8702 debunkable

[@MrSkysenGames]

I agree entirely. He functions best as a villain with the occasional comic relief rather than _being_ that comic relief. Early era Archie comics, plus SatAM, he had the odd comical moment, but was otherwise brutal. A _threat._ After that, and in IDW, he took on his more familiar shape and occasional menace, but gradually became jokey. In the games? Just...eh. He's gotten about as bad as the writing and that saddens me. On that note, why is it that in every media that isn't the games, he and the others are done so decently, but the game writing is in a spiral? Y'know...aside from the obvious "It's not Sega writing them." Why is Sega doing this to these characters? And it can't be about longevity, because Mario has been around longer and Bowser is still treated like a threat. And occasional sports rival. And board game companion. And racer. ...It's complicated between them, but they're at least consistent with him going "Roar, I'ma do the thing!" then _doing_ it. Not cracking a joke or being the joke.

[@joshuakim5240]

It seems that the games are trying to make Eggman different kind of franchise rival than Bowser, while not understanding why Bowser works as a rival character. Bowser is sometimes silly, but never during a fight or as part of a confrontation. He's a threat whose always close to winning whenever he's the main villain. Even in the RPG games where he's not the main villain, his sillier antics are only within non-serious scenes and he even tackles some very serious concepts such as single parenthood to his children. Even at his utmost silliest in one of the RPG games (forgot which one), he was only silly and acting like a joke sidekick due to amnesia so that wasn't even Bowser character-wise. It let's Bowser be taken seriously as a villain since he takes villainy seriously, but his casual moments where he can be silly function to expand his character as an individual that doesn't also define how he works as a villain. He has a "at-home" and "at-work" mentality. Eggman in comparison became a 24/7 living joke. If his villain antics are jokes, then why should any of his plots be seen as anything other than jokes? And if his antics are only jokes, how does anyone take him seriously? They don't. Eggman's role as a villain has been completely taken over by a character who was originally his underling (mecha-Sonic) because Eggman himself became unable to, as a joke, do anything serious. And this is what he became, not how he started off as, which kind of makes it all worse.

[@MrSkysenGames]

Exactly, and well put. Bowser is jokey when the mood is _meant_ to be jokey. The Egg is _just_ a joke and happens to have big robots.

[@Hebleh]

@@joshuakim5240 You're thinking of Bowser as Rookie in Mario&Luigi Superstar Saga!

[@Icalasari]

Kirby is another long standing series, one that shows evolution of a character over time. King Dedede remains a threat, but will often help the heroes. He's no longer the big bad, sure, but he remains scary, competent, AND hilarious as hell

[@blehh_mae]

maybe sega just gets a deal for a game, and then when they realize it Sucks its already too late to just cancel it and the fans would want it either way so they go with it and release the 3 quarters assed games anyway

[@7_wd40]

I think the reason he was so defeatist when Metal revealed to be the mastermind in Heroes, was in itself narcissistic, because he's only saying that knowing Metal is his creation. Saying that HIS creation cannot be stopped because he made him invincible.

[@Chib9]

Good point™

[@zephyr8072]

I don’t really buy that. A narcissist would never submit to their own creation no matter how perfect it is, they’d be enraged that their creation would have the gall to turn against them and refuse to ever accept defeat due to that.

[@pumpkinking7401]

@@zephyr8072 It depends, a narcissist has a personality too. Eggman, while being a massive narcissist, is also obsessed with creating robots and machines and he is very obviously proud of all his creations. He wants the world to know he built them and that they are unsurpassable by anyone other than himself. IF he managed to create something even he believed he couldn't surpass, the peak of his ingenuity so to speak, he would be defeatist because deep down he doesn't want them to beat his creation. It is his ultimate creation, similarly to his grandfather's creating of Shadow, he wants to be the one to create that impossibly amazing thing. It might not even be that he thinks he can't beat it, but if they beat it then it means he's wrong about how great it was and that's impossible. If he's wrong then his creation wasn't what he believed it to be and internally that's something he doesn't want to accept. I believe he should've been defeatist in a more narcissistic way though, revealing his true feelings. Though, his personality would be better suited to trying to surpass his ultimate creation instead of believing himself to have created the peak of possibility, it is not impossible to write a narcissistic personality in that manner.

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

Um, he was also imprisoned and all of his robots were scattering, so he literally could not fight against Metal on his own.

[@7_wd40]

Oh hey my comment got liked, thx

[@Azerty72200]

About the defeatist situation in Sonic Heroes, I really liked that interpretation. Because he felt so betrayed and disappointed by his supposedly greatest creation. It's a more humble part of his life. It would've been crazy if this gave the Sonic Team a way to have his character slowly change in a meaningful way through the next games, it could've been beautiful.

[@robertharrison1058]

Even In the fleetway comics robotnik aka Eggman would do everything he could to destroy his creations when they turn traitor on him metal sonic created an army of himself and robotnik had a self destruct device to end him Brutus was made of the toughest metal ever yet robotnik had a combat suit that was armed to make him scrap metal the only creation he didn't destroy was shortfuse the cybernik in that version that robotnik was more like the satam version personal wise even though his appearance was mainly aosth from issues 20+ onwards yet it worked this morden version of the main villain is a disgrace with idw having to salvage the main villan as a viable threat again.

[@phantom-ri2tg]

I think the reason why he did not assist in the final fight anyways was that he couldn't. Metal Sonic took control of his robots. just because he was not using them in the final fight did not mean he suddenly lost all of that. even more so since Overlord was right in his name. As for a self destruct and Eggman willing to destroy his creations that also could have been the case. Metal Sonic could transform a lot so with his knowledge of Eggman's stuff he could have just disabled the self destruct. you think you would leave in a bomb if you were improving yourself? These would give Eggman a reason to be so beaten down at the end. his creation did not just rise up against him. his creation surpassed what he had made it into. and then took over his empire to add insult to injury. since Eggman was kept prisoner and Metal Sonic remote controlling stuff it is probable during the game he was rubbing it in. All in all Metal Sonic gave him a humiliation he never suffered anything close to before. Also he would have been right if everyone had not gathered the chaos emeralds and again. what could he have done the final fight if Metal Sonic still controlled his robots? an inventor needs time to invent stuff.

[@libertylemonz7145]

Honestly the IDW comic moment where he completely stomps Starline in a fight and then manually, hand-to-hand smashes him into the floor is probably my favorite Eggman moment since Adventure 2

[@thepjshow]

Yeah, that was great!

[@kingdomtrue7008]

And in what is essentially an outdated mech compared to what Starline was using as Eggman used the Egg emperor and Starline used the final boss of Lost World

[@_aWiseMan]

Yeah it also showed that he was always planning even when it seemed he wasn't paying attention. He is way smarter and more cunning than he often seems even in his silly moments

[@cakeylad1789]

Rewatching this, it makes me realize how in the Sonic Movie and Sonic Movie 2 (no spoilers) they really do capture his character really well Makes me appreciate it

[@jjb1908]

I was thinking that too. I actually like that in the first one it's him who's chasing Sonic as opposed to the other way around

[@donathan2933]

@@jjb1908 exactly! Despite being goofy, Eggman in the movies is legitimate threat throughout both films he’s the one who forces Sonic to run away and is always gettin the upper hand on him, I lost count of how many times Eggman seemed to overpower Sonic throughout the second film. Sonic only rlly defeated Eggman in the climax

[@jjb1908]

@@donathan2933 What's weird is that I never really thought of Jim Carrey as threatening

[@donathan2933]

@@jjb1908 yeah same here. But he actually manages to be threatening as Eggman especially in the second movie. Always overpowering Sonic. When he absorbed the Master Emerald, I saw him as a real dangerous threat. His goofiness is just a distraction

[@hariman7727]

I came here to say this and multiple people have beaten me to it. ;)

[@ToaArcan]

Eggman is a character who has arguably suffered the most out of the whole cast, from the direction the series took as it wore on, in part because the decay was already setting in before the meta era rot really kicked in for the rest of the gang. IMO, the Meta Era took the complaints people had about Eggman during the "Dark Age" and fixed the wrong issue. The problem wasn't ever that Eggman wasn't the final boss anymore, because he very frequently was- In the handheld titles. The problem was that he wasn't a big-deal villain anymore. They made him the final boss again, but he's still just as much of a joke, if not more, as he was when he was being punted over the horizon by Dark Gaia. That said, I must admit I've never really liked Ian Flynn's take on the character, entirely because of Archie. Due to the oddness that was Eggman's backstory in the Archie book, Flynn wrote him less as a version of the character present in the games, and more a sort of hybrid between SEGA's post-Heroes Eggman and SatAM Robotnik, and those two versions of the character... do not gel well. Archie Eggman was so sadistic and outright vile that it took all the humour out of his more comical moments- It's kinda hard to laugh at the guy singing E.G.G.M.A.N. when it's happening in the same story arc where he carves up one of the protagonists with a blowtorch, seemingly while she's still conscious and aware of what's happening to her. Especially because it was painfully obvious that he'd never have to deal with a lasting defeat: While SEGA's Eggman will always end up flying away from a ruined plan, battered and burned and vowing revenge but clearly beaten, the Archie version was an emperor who controlled much of the planet and basically never lost. Even when he went crazy for a year, he incurred no relevant losses beyond one of his lieutenants having her head explode, but it's okay, he just rebuilt her to the point that it was impossible to tell that the cherry bomb he surgically implanted in her brain had detonated. Apparently he was a wizard or something. SA2 will always be peak Eggman, I think.

[@gottagofastfaster]

I still like every eggman in every sonic game except 06. Unleashed almost made him look badass.

[@shockwavespider3942]

Archie eggman is badass

[@ToaArcan]

@@shockwavespider3942 Archie Eggman is an _idiot._ He hits the level of Stupid Evil previously reserved for AoStH Robotnik, and that's a little mean on Robotnik. This is a man whose entire empire is made of machinery, and whose soldiers are all either robotic or cyborgs, and he decides to shoot the entire planet with a roboticizer beam, which makes technology explode. The man was going to nuke his own empire to rubble. He self-sabotages at every turn, and only gets to keep his spot at the top of the totem pole because he's being constantly wanked by the writer.

[@VestedUTuber]

​@@ToaArcan Yeah, he may be a self-defeating idiot quite often, but he's also the only Eggman to have gotten a proper win over Sonic, having managed to capture and _roboticize_ the Hedgehog at one point. Honestly, Archie Eggman went back and forth between genius badass and bumbling idiot.

[@ToaArcan]

@@VestedUTuber Robotnik Prime did that too.

[@midnalazuli793]

I believe the reason why Eggman is way less intimidating in recent instalments is because of Orbot and Cubot. The two bumbling sidekicks who constantly annoy the main villain and test his patience with their incompetency is nothing new, but the problem is that those two actually became recurring characters, and with them constantly getting under Eggman's skin and interfering with his heinous schemes... they just showcase how truly inept he is. That, combined with the fact that he's always being upstaged by a bigger threat.

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

He's inept simply because they exist

[@mjc0961]

They absolutely ruin Eggman in Colors. There's all this dark stuff behind the scenes of Eggman harvesting energy from the wisps, even that one scene where Sonic and Tails find them all trapped in the extraction machine. But then Eggman gets some screen time and he's just second fiddle to "HAHAHAHA CUBOT HAS FUNNY VOICES AND IT ANNOYS EGGMAN AND ORBOT" 🤦‍♂️ And then the payoff for all that stupidity is they finally fix him at the end and go "oh yeah your normal voice is annoying too." So funny I forgot to laugh.

[@valletas]

Man i hate orbot and cubot Eggman works better as a lone character

[@quangamershyguyyz7166]

@@mjc0961 Colors isn’t a game meant to be taken seriously. 🤦🏾‍♂️It’s supposed to be stupid and wacky. WHY DON’T YOU PEOPLE GET THAT?

[@midnalazuli793]

@@quangamershyguyyz7166 Well, like I said, the problem is more that Orbot and Cubot became recurring characters. They were tolerable in Colors, but I don't think anyone was really expecting them to become mainstays.

[@spongeman3090]

It feels like lots of the characters have been flanderized just to appeal to kids. By having simple, one-dimensional personalities the kids can have a good laugh.

[@thepjshow]

It's this weird ideology that companies have. If something is aimed towards a younger audience, then no effort needs to be put in. That is faulty logic but it works and that is why it is seen so frequently.

[@aneggselentfellow5607]

Yeah, I think it's the reason I hate the word comedy.

[@Bacxaber]

If it works, it's not faulty unfortunately. They're not here to make art, they're here to make money. @@thepjshow

[@101Volts]

@@thepjshow Fred Rogers didn't feel or think the same way as these companies do. ... Nor did Lauren Faust, apparently.

[@madambabylonrouge]

I also think the 2020 Sonic the Hedgehog movie also gives us a perfect Dr. Robotnik/Eggman by giving us the comedy, the genius, and threatening nature of the main villain. Throughout the movie, he kept Sonic on his toes.

[@samuelbutton7185]

But in turn they had to dumb Sonic down by turning him into a literal child. I get that it's the first movie, and there'll probably be several more (hopefully to the point that we reach Adventure 1 and 2). But come on, nobody needed to see Sonic flossing.

[@cupio-stardust]

@@samuelbutton7185 I mean he’s 13 in the movie instead of 15 like the games.

[@dyingstar24]

@@cupio-stardust and in his 20s in the later comics (RIP Archie-Sonic, Ken Penders can get f*cked with a stags head...)

[@cupio-stardust]

@@dyingstar24 basically his age is inconsistent with things besides the games.

[@KilosFoxo]

and unlike returning villains in sequels the trailers seem to be showing his s just as much of a threat if not more than the 1st movie instead of weakening him to show how cool and badass the new enemy is

[@AwsomeArceus641]

Honestly, I always felt like that overkill was the perfect word to describe Eggman's methods. He always goes so far to accomplish (arguably) so little. Pretty much like you said, he resurrects an ancient God of destruction by destroying the Master Emerald and then gives it the seven Chaos Emeralds to grant it unlimited power just to build Robotnikland (Sonic Adventure's story in a nutshell), and that's just one example.

[@notalive5479]

Yeah, overkill is the right word. The reason for it, I think, is that he creates plans under the assumption that nothing will go wrong. Instead of viewing his opponents as adversaries that absolutely will find the obvious weaknesses in his plans, he views them as chess pieces that will crumble before the might of his LATEST and GREATEST creation! He does the same thing with his allies, viewing them as pawns that will obey his every command. Because of that, he creates super weapons, toys with powers beyond his control, and always fails to understand that maybe his plan isn't as good as he thinks it is. That being said, he still does a pretty good job of improvising, instead of breaking down the moment he realizes he might have been wrong about something.

[@WalkerSunriseChannel]

The ending scene of Sonic Adventure 2 where Robotnik reflects on how much he loved and respected his grandfather as a child, but also the horror that same man unleashed, might be my favorite scene in the entire series. I may be baised, since as a Nintendo kid in my youth, playing Sonic Adventure 2 during my teen years was my first real exposure to the series (though I also grabbed the Gamecube version of Mega Collection afterward) but I also adore Adventure 2's take on him. From that bit of human introspection on something nobody could help but feel strongly about, to the calculating and ruthless presence he has while explaining the plan to snatch the Chaos Emerald off Prison Island and blow it up (and the sheer confidence they can do it when he wraps with "We only have 30 minutes to pull this off, and we only get one try!"), it's just such a good depiction. Adventure 2 gives him a grandiosity that I feel no other game really captured, even Adventure 1, such that if he didn't have such thoroughly immoral goals, you'd almost want to root for the guy.

[@RazielSoulshadow]

Sonic Adventure 2 is probably the only Sonic game I've ever properly completed, and yeah... from what all I've seen it's definitely one of the best narrative-wise. Nothing I've seen from other games really has compared (though I haven't seen much of anything from frontiers). ...granted, that's also nostalgia talking lol

[@passingrando6457]

​@@RazielSoulshadow part of that is that, at the time, there was a very real chance that Adventure 2 was going to be the last Sonic game. Because of that, they paid more attention to character arcs without worrying about leaving an in for the next game.

[@TheDeathmail]

In response for Lost World specifically: I think one issue for things like Knuckles and Eggman having a seemingly change is because, their OG games didn't really have much dialogue and cut scenes... we had a lot to imagine for them... I also think we need to remember that Eggman just lost way too much to Sonic... like, because he lost so much, he no longer seems like a threat. Not to mention that Sonic and the gang kinda know him too well by later points... Like, if you know him well and constantly beat him, would you still view him as a threat??? And it's shown that after so long, Eggman got comfortable with his enemies, so for him, being looser and less serious kinda makes sense... plus, he himself is now too used to losing. But when we get to enemies that are only enemies, we can see how dark and crazy he can be... so it actually fits..

[@Chaos-Zakai64]

I don't know if this would be considered a "hot take" but my favorite Robotnik/Eggman is from the SAT,AM cartoon. The blacked-out eyes with just red dots for pupils, and the robot arm give him a sense of mystery. It makes you ask what happened to him that caused him to have these features. And the show starting with him having already won and controlling most of the planet adds to his threatening factor. Also, I was pleasantly surprised with Jim Carrey's Robotnik from the recent Sonic movie and I'm curious what they'll add to him in the upcoming sequel.

[@kingofcrap4414]

AOSTH Robotnik is by far my favorite version, and is in fact my favorite villain of all time. The perfect mixture of goofiness, sinisterness, and all around insanity. The kind of villain who makes you laugh constantly while still managing to be threatening. And I really like how they made him more tragic and sympathetic in some episodes, such as showing his cruel mother or his desire to have a family. What a wacky and wonderful take on Eggman's character.

[@hariman7727]

Sonic Movie 2 Robotnik is a continuation of Sonic Movie 1 Robotnik. Still a bit over the top, still arrogant, still menacing too.

[@pixelsheep8939]

We can all agree the best voice actor for Eggman is Alfred Coleman

[@Mr.Tw1sty]

I miss my wife,Tails

[@PhantomTheRandom]

I miss her a lot. I'll be back.

[@division6193]

i've come to make an announcement

[@johnsaibot2359]

MY FUNYUN RINGS, I AM TAKING THEM BACK!

[@sberky98]

thats a fact

[@randocalzone8772]

8:30 And what does he do? He comes to make an announcement and PISSES ON THE MOOOOOOOOON!

[@alyshasemler-baltzer6754]

"Because you just told me fox boy!" One of the best lines in sonic adventure 2

[@Below_Left]

"Something that kinda happens" is a great description for Sonic Forces. It is by far the most incomplete-feeling mainline Sonic game (though I've never had the pleasure of trying Sonic 06), which sucks because you can see and imagine all the cool stuff that they clearly wanted to do before we got what we got.

[@kobieharrison8931]

Sonic 06 is good, imo. Gameplay kinda wack (glitchy) and theres loads of loading screens, kinda odd moments, but very fun for me

[@Gloomdrake]

@@kobieharrison8931 haven't played it, but now that I think about it, it's kind of weird that in 16 years they haven't tried to fix that game. I guess they'd rather everyone just forget the game ever happened, but it's too late for that

[@kobieharrison8931]

@@Gloomdrake yeah, which sucks cuz i loved it, despite the fuckery it does

[@renaterrier935]

As released, Sonic 06 is terrible, but not as a fundamental concept. Check out Project 06 to see what could have been.

[@codename618]

I just realized why Eggman might've had that attitude after being freed in Heroes. With something like Chaos, he was attempting to use some godlike being he doesn't fully understand. But when it comes to Metal Sonic... Eggman built him himself. If anyone knows what Metal Sonic is capable of, it's Eggman. With that said though, yeah, Eggman should have done a bit more.

[@Xenunnaki]

It's also, like, his hubris extends to all the things he's built. He believes his forces are unstoppable, that he could even take on a god. But Metal *is* his forces, underestimating Metal would be underestimating himself and other creations.

[@metalpikachu1507]

And it could also be Eggman's subtle way of telling sonic that he can go fuck himself and deal with it on his own

[@johnniesstorytime7837]

I forgot about the brief but sincere exchange between Tails and Eggman at the end of SA2. It’s a shame because here we really see how far both characters have fallen. While the Sonic/Eggman rivalry was timeless, I always appreciated the rivalry between Tails and Eggman; the established evil genius and the precious young inventor who could very well develop a similar level of genius. There was something almost sweet about that dynamic.

[@nyantails]

In Sonic Heroes, wouldn't bringing the Egg Fleet on Metal Overlord just make him stronger? That's literally exactly what just happened in the previous cutscene, Neo Metal destroyed a bunch of ships and used their parts to transform.

[@SilverLining1]

You've missed something incredibly big about his character, and that's the effect it has on each installment of the franchise. As the main antagonist, he almost completely shapes a game's direction, particularly the plot points. Think about how much more intricate the story is in sonic adventure 2. He thinks he's the most important human ever, so he deserves to take over the world. That, with how proactive he is, leads him to directly threatening the president, which leads to the writers placing a government spy, rouge, in his ranks to spot his bluff even after he blows up the fucking moon. So just in him being himself, the story must develop into something much more interesting. That is, when Eggman is taken seriously, he inevitably forces the story to have more developments, which is an amazing situation they've taken for granted.

[@mjc0961]

And when he's not taken seriously, you get something like Colors, where Eggman is secondary to his stupid pet robot constantly speaking in different "hilarious" voice. 🙄

[@PosthumanHeresy]

One of my favorite traits of Eggman in the Adventure games is that he's kinda like Doctor Doom. He's seeking world domination, yes. But that's not out of a desire to drain the world dry or destroy the world or make everyone suffer. Eggman has absolute complete belief that the world would be better under his rule. The Sonic games don't have enough depth usually to get into a why, but Adventure 2 and yes, Shadow the Hedgehog, eventually did it. The corruption, incompetence, and crimes of GUN finally give us the last piece we need to get him. This is what he grew up hearing about. His (presumably) paternal grandfather's victimhood, the death of his cousin, this is his family's story. This is what he wants to replace, the government that would gun a child down in the midst of numerous other atrocities. Eggman is the hero of his story. He doesn't mind that he has to get his hands dirty or rule with fear. He's willing to do that because he believes that if people would just let him prove himself, he'd show them all that they would thrive under him. He will harness the power of the gods in order to take over the world. Yes, it's ego. But it's well-intentioned ego. He believes in himself so much that he believes he can save us all from the current system. He's trying to be a hero to a world he feels doesn't understand that, and he doesn't mind being the villain today to prove himself. Notice why he admires Gerald. "He was a hero." Eggman wants to be the hero, even if it means fighting the world.

[@thepjshow]

Well, that is a very interesting take on Eggman's desire for control.

[@PosthumanHeresy]

@@thepjshow Thanks. I just get a major Doctor Doom vibe from him throughout the Adventure series, and when you analyze what the lore says about his family and his deeper moments, it all seems to line up that he's got a fairly understandable reason for being like this. He knows of Gerald. He presumably also knew of Maria. We know what parts of the story are a shock to him, but we don't know how he came about all this intel. But, it's his family history. Presumably, he knew the family lore before he had his grandfather's actual research. We can presume that since there's no relationship between Gerald's tech and Ivo's tech before Adventure 2. Artificial Chaos proves that the research was a later discovery. He would have used this intel himself if he had it prior to Adventure 2. So without going to the adaptations, somewhere between the games he got the actual intel. Here's the thing: we know he heard about his grandfather growing up. We know Maria was both Gerald's granddaughter and killed as a child. Given how human reproduction works, that means Maria had a parent, and that parent was the sibling of Ivo's parent. A sibling who would not shut up about their dad when talking to their very impressionable genius son. Are we to assume that that sibling didn't also go "oh, and they killed my sibling's kid"? Logically, if Ivo heard about Gerald growing up, he heard about Maria. And if he heard about Maria, he heard about GUN killing her. And since GUN is the government, that's who he wants to overthrow.

[@absoutezeo2126]

Definitely an interesting perspective of Eggman. The only thing missing here is his narcissism and putting himself above other humans, but even that could be explained as him overcompensating from being rejected. Regardless of how you want to interpret Eggman though, what you've said about GUN is true and not something I often see brought up. They matter a lot more than people realize, at least as far as the early games go.

[@phantom-ri2tg]

I personally doubt that is the case. Just because he felt hurt about GUNs corruption does not mean he decided he would be the hero the world needed. I think you are looking for matches where they are not there as I do not recall him ever doing anything good for others. well he did help save the world a line drawn does not make someone a person who desires good.

[@oomsou5018]

I agree with a lot of the video but for heroes , didn’t Metal Sonic literally have control of Eggman’a entire fleet and was at basically at perfect chaos levels of power so Eggman didn’t really have any options to fight except the chaos emeralds? So his more defeatist attitude kinda makes sense. Even he understands sometimes when he is out matched.

[@phantom-ri2tg]

This to a large extent. Well it does not explain his attitude it is not like he can be faulted for not joining in the final fight. and it is not really so much being out matched though I would say a creation surpassing what he built played in his attitude. He did not have any time to make a new invention to aid in the fight against Metal Sonic with all his previous inventions out of his control.

[@phantom-ri2tg]

@DanielZaneKZbin Tails was fighting it. and even if not they are not used to working together and had hardly any time. making inventions is sort of a time consuming endeavor. Besides Metal Sonic would just ignore something rushed together and possibly even take control of it. One of his attacks was just throwing an Egg carrier.

[@bruh-bruh-bruh-bruh-bruh]

13:46 the reason eggman gave up was because as showcased in another of his videos he was just so powerful that they needed the emeralds to stand a tiny chance if he fought back he would most certainly be killed on the spot

[@edgelord8337]

Eggman in sonic adventure 2 was peak eggman. He even outsmarted tails and had it not been for Sonics plot armor he would have won. He's slowly became more of a laughingstock and a joke that even the devs know about. Honestly while eggman was never truly a villain who you'd think of for his villainy outright in hindsight he had moments that made the egg shaped villain look like a true enemy. In the game gear sonic 2 its implied that he killed tails or at least captured him as sonic is unable to rescue him and looks up into the sky longing for him. In sonic CD he legit also is out to take over all of little planet and if you either fail to get the robot generators or time stones eggman basically wins. Knuckles chaotix also had an ending where super metal sonic takes over the city and burns it down. Compared to now where somehow he takes over the world and despite this seeming domination still loses in like a week. He's a joke.

[@gokublack9724]

Unleashed eggman was good too, but yeah sa2 eggman was him at his best

[@gottagofastfaster]

@@gokublack9724 Unleashed was the most memorable for me.

[@gokublack9724]

@Мищук Артем unleashed eggman was the most memorable for me too, but sa2 eggman was the best overall

[@TheAnimeYoungin]

@@gokublack9724 Towards the end of unleashed Eggman became a comedic joke. I would say Unleashed was the start of the fall.. The only time I truly enjoyed Eggman as a Villain was in Sonic adventure 2

[@playerback7722]

@@TheAnimeYoungin true

[@qball331]

An interesting little experience I had with the sonic series and Eggman. So as a person who at first only really learned bits and pieces of sonic lore while knowing the general concept I kind of assumed for a while that Eggman was the last human left alive and was trying to save or preserve his people. It sounds weird but the main thing I noticed when looking at sonic after a while is that Eggman is the only human while everyone else is a talking animal then I think someone mentioned something about sonic's world being future Earth and I kind of reached this assumption that Eggman was the last human left or at least one of the last ones left and was trying to save his people. Honestly after learning about his actual motives and his portrayal I was pretty disappointed. He went from being a person turned into a villain by desperation to preserve his people to a cartoon "I wanna take over the world villain". I realize the conclusions I reached were pretty wild but its disappointing to have created this image of a serious, complex villain with a sympathetic goal in a cartoony world(kinda like the Kirby villains) just to find out they're just another generic "I wanna rule the world" villain which is viewed as a joke most of the time.

[@WaterKirby1994]

Eggman's backstory is more than just wanting to rule the world, he wants respect & admiration for both his & his family's scientific achievements. While Sonic's Series takes place in the future humans still inhabit Earth & they benefit from his family's work while being villainized from what I understand. The Grandfather he idolized as a child was executed by the United Federation Government (or its past as the United States) for trying to save humanity & cure disease. Sonic Adventure 2 was both Eggman's Origin Story & where his character arc peaked. Eggman is trying to build an Empire & eventually topple what has become the World Government. He's essentially a terrorist trying to become the world's greatest leader through the power of his creations, however at the end of Adventure 2 he loses much of his ambition.

[@qball331]

@@WaterKirby1994 That is definitely a good point however the character as a whole still feels disappointing from what I originally imagined him to be. Adventure 2 was definitely Eggman at his best but since then he has failed to reach a point where he is as good at least in the games.

[@WaterKirby1994]

@@qball331 Eggman should have retired long ago from being a villain as his character arc was essentially over after Adventure 2. Eggman Nega was created for the sole purpose of being a much more evil version of Eggman, although he was abandoned once the 4kids Era ended. The games only ever cared about Eggman's motivations in the Adventure Era.

[@WrensthavAviovus]

Up until we reach the adventures Era you would not be wrong in assuming that eggman is the last human. Before Sonic X, Mobius Aka future earth he is the last human. The only other people that show up in the animated canon are sat AMs direct henchman to Robotic. At his core Eggman is unchecked industry fueled by ego and validation.

[@kingofcrap4414]

Eggman has never been interested in creating more humans, whether by technological or (ahem) genetic means. Most of the time, he only creates animalistic robots, so I can't really understand where you came to this conclusion. The closest thing I can think of to support your theory is in AOSTH, where he creates a robotic son named "Junior" who is very similar to himself as a teenager.

[@djneonreaper4990]

I think the problem with sonic characters nowadays is simply struggling with the demographic audience-which would explain the tonal shifts- and more importantly and ironically enough, it struggles how big the series is. With the vast amounts of spin-offs it seems to struggle to decide what is canon and what isnt. For example a simple animated series *cough cough* sonic boom and X *cough* that was originally a joke and non-canon makes some people think that they are canon and so they think that knuckles is a temper-headed idiot, tails a smart scaredy cat, sonic is a douche, and eggman is just a bad joke villain. Ok the example is preety bad example

[@Kiezly]

After playing frontiers and the Final Horizon expansion story I totally feel like eggman has essentially become one of the heroes. He helps sonic so much and never argues with him or threatens him or attacked him. I get that they wanted to emphasize the “greater evil” trope of The End being so dangerous we need to team up. But that’s overdone. They did that in Advanced 3 with Gemerl and in SA2 with the biolizard.

[@kessler5902]

Jim Cummings as Robotnik in the 1993 TV series terrified me as a child. I think that may be one of my favorite interpretations of the character.

[@MmntechCa]

Yep, the SatAm version is still my favourite take on the character. He's brilliant, cunning, genuinely intimidating, and fully capable of defeating Sonic. Then when they continued on in the Archie comics (flawed as they are), there's genuine weight to that final battle. Of course goofy Robotnik was there in the 90s too, with Adventures and the early Archies.

[@shardsoftime0952]

Me too He’s so underrated I also like robo robotnik/modern archie eggman is literaly perfect

[@mariarome1780]

What a great character Eggman was, hopefully the new era of sonic will bring these character back in action at their finest

[@santiagoarrieta2175]

The lack of Eggman self flattering in forces is more ridiculous when you realize he can simply use the phantom ruby to put them on. Even without it he have uncountable badnicks and duplicates In stand by most of the time (is not like the resistance can be constantly attacking when they are outnumbered and overpowered), that can build it.

[@MelancoliaI]

I did like the line "Wow, do I really get that crazy?" said by Past Robotnik in generations. Shows that he's aware of how...well....over the top he is in his quest to defeat Sonic. A nice bit of self(?) reflection

[@DemonicAkumi]

While I know he died so he couldn't play Robotnik forever, I feel Bristow's death was also the death of Robotnik as well. Yes... I know the issue isn't just the voice actor of course and also part of the writing, but I would also say that both writing and delivery both play a role. Pollock always did his deliveries in a way like he's playing a comical guy. The writing then made it even worse with how they make the character acted. When you had the sinister, yet sincere tone of Bristow with some of the comical gestures of Robotnik in SA1 and SA2... it was the perfect blend. (And before someone say Eggman had no comical parts in SA1, don't tell me you didn't laugh or at least chuckle when he told Tails to wait for him while they raced to the end of Speed Highway or when Chaos blasted him out into the air after destroying the 2nd Egg Carrier. And while you might've laughed, you still took Eggman seriously. Especially that final glare he had after the fight with Perfect Chaos.)

[@thepjshow]

Deem Bristow was such a legendary Eggman Voice. Like you said, he blends all the aspects of Eggman's personality so well and conveys them with his exceptional performance.

[@kaobunn]

given the majority praises mike pollock im shocked to hear this

[@danielsurvivor1372]

FINALLY someone else who understand how Deem Bristow was superior VA... I miss him, I miss him so much.

[@Laiser]

I'm going to say this now, but Mike Pollock is the superior Eggman. Part of Eggman's personality is his showmanship. The idea that his less flavorful performance was better is just unfair, and it seems to come from this entire channel and consequently the viewers pushing the narrative that ALL Sonic characters have been ruined. But that isn't true. Eggman is the one character I would say has only gotten better as the series went on.

[@kaobunn]

@@Laiser Thank you

[@CosmicTornado1]

Yo I love how you went into depth about what you love about Eggman as well as the things you don’t like about Eggman. I especially appreciated that you didn’t make a broad statement that modern Eggman is bad because comedy, and instead talked about the weird limbo he’s in right now. I don’t think it’s talked about enough that he has an imbalance of quirkiness to seriousness with people instead jumping directly to “he’s just a joke character now”. You nailed it on the head with his overall presentation (Megamind style). Anywho, great video, man! I’ll definitely look out for your content more often.

[@deppo436]

I think it definitely needs to be a perfect balance of serious and goofy to make Eggmans character likeable as a comic relief but can still be respected enough to also be perceived as a genuine threat in the story. Too goofy can lead to the joke that is the meta era Eggman but too serious leads to the dull and bland Eggman of 06.

[@playerback7722]

True

[@juanrisa945]

They should take the film version of Eggman as an inspiration.

[@MrJinglejanglejingle]

I'd say go for something like DBS' Beerus. Complaints about Super aside, Beerus is almost always seen as a bit of a joke. Like, yeah, we know he's supposed to be super powerful and all that, but look at him? He's getting yelled at by Bulma, doing silly, goofy shit, lazing about like a cat... And LITERALLY ERASING SOMEONE FROM EXISTANCE RIGHT IN FRONT OF EVERYONE. I want that kind of Eggman. Like, he's able to be made fun of, he's even able to occasionally laugh at himself... But when he gets proper serious, he's legit dangerous. Things go from "Haha, funny mustache man. Look at him, slipping on bananas and stubbing his toe" to "Good lord, Sonic's ACTUALLY hurt, and... Wait, he's not gonna just... Get up? I have to play as Knuckles, Tails, and Amy for a while until Sonic can recover? Like, he's legit hurt?" That sort of thing.

[@crazyarceus4617]

23:18 makes him out to actually have meaningful threats, which just makes it all the more upsetting that it didnt end up panning out

[@devofficialchannel]

Honestly, I kinda like Archie Eggman. While he's certainly goofier than the original Robotnik (who's pretty much just the cold and monstrous dictator like in SatAM, although he does have some funny moments), he's extremely threatening and much of his acts are downright evil, like how Eggman should be. Hell, he even roboticised *and WEAPONISED* Sally and use her as his personal soldier to spite Sonic and the rest of the Freedom Fighters, knowing full well how they'd be disheartened with seeing their former ally brainwashed to fight against them. Spiteful, arrogant and sadistic: what makes Eggman really dangerous in spite of his goofiness and funny jokes (SnooPING AS usual I see?) What's also interesting is the fact that before the reboot in the Archie comics, Eggman was an alternate version of Robotnik who WON against Sonic. But he decides to invade the main Sonic universe because he feels empty without Sonic. While he succeeded his goal in destroying the world and killing his Sonic, he felt lonely and wanted another shot at fighting another Sonic. And honestly, this might somewhat explain why he (seemingly) mourns for Sonic when he (supposedly) killed him in Sonic Adventure 2 while somewhat feeling victorious.

[@incrediblefunk7220]

Actually if anything I'd say he was less goofy than original Robotnik, who was actually a lot goofier and more prone to comedic downfalls than the SatAM version but still could be a legit threat like in his last story (Issue 50).

[@devofficialchannel]

@@incrediblefunk7220 Archie Robotnik has more in common with Sonic Underground's version of Robotnik. Basically the apppearance and cruelty of the SatAM version, but just as funny as the AoStH version.

[@blockstacker5614]

Some of the things from those comics still horrify me. The world had long since been destroyed, and Robotnik had roboticized and enslaved nearly everyone who was left.

[@Astro_Crunch]

I honestly think a lot of people sell Colors Eggman a little short. There are quite a few moments where he shows his threatening side, and I think the leaning towards comedy can actually works in the game's favor in that aspect. There's the PA announcements all throughout the game that have him trying to downplay environmental destruction and alien abuse through humor. That kind of stuff is totally on brand for Eggman, as it combines how threatening he is with his goofiness and showmanship. It shows how little regard he truly holds for any life, and it creates a fun but sort of uneasy feeling. There's also moments like him managing to mind-control Tails and giving a horrible glimpse at what could come next if his plan succeeds. There's the moment when Sonic and Tails get to see the factory where he extracts energy from the wisps and how cruel and horrific of a process it is. In general, the game leans on the goofier side, but I think it's a bit of an exaggeration to say Eggman was reduced to pure comic relief in that game.

[@Sparkz1607]

Well said. Colors Eggman's PA announcements are intentionally facetious, showing that he absolutely does not give a shit about destroying an environment or committing genocide, and will do so without a second thought to further his goals. He's very much a psychopath. The only thing missing is Sonic pointing this out, and Eggman, while looking at himself with a pocket mirror and stroking one end of his moustache, immediately responding with "And? I missed the part where that's my problem." before using his free hand to press a button and fire a laser at Sonic with his eggmobile's cannon or something.

[@mjc0961]

There's flavor surrounding Eggman that's good, but Eggman was indeed reduced to pure coming relief in that game. Most of his actual screen time revolves around his stupid robot talking in various HiLaRiOuS voices. It's so obnoxious.

[@Astro_Crunch]

@@mjc0961 well that's on Orbot and Cubot, and they were always meant to be comic relief anyway. I understand why people wouldn't like them, but it's unfair to place that all on Eggman when he does a lot more than that

[@DarthVader-6637]

@@Astro_Crunch if you think about it it is actually impressive to create even semi smart robots. But Eggman is above creating qubot(because I see him as superior to orbot) level intelligence. With metal sonic for example

[@becomeanother]

personally i think the cutscene where eggman threatens the zetis was pretty badass, it even displays some of his classic narcissistic demeanor when he calls them eggman wannabes.

[@becomeanother]

@sonic 1995 not really, you can tell that eggman’s VERY pissed, that just makes him outraged, i mean i would be too if everything i loved was taken from me. if you want edgy just look to shadow

[@SnowLily123]

I was literally just talking to my sister about how Dr. Eggman is a lot smarter and a lot more threatening than most people in the fandom realize. He has actually come very very very close to taking over the world more times than the average cartoon villain.

[@philosiraptorjr4912]

The virgin regular villains: *Makes practical and intimidating weapons of destruction* The chad Eggman: “Lol imma put my face on everything.”

[@Alpha121198]

I think the Sonic 06 Eggman design is actually pretty cool. Lovely fairly realistic proportions brought about by what I assume was a design philosophy change. I’m glad they went back to his previous design and kept that as the base but I adore the experiment. 😊

[@Julian_Pepper]

13:55 Metal Sonic literally stole his entire armada and locked him in a room before Sonic Heroes, this isn't defeatist, Eggman does not have control of his robots, weapons, or armada right now, and he probably knows Metal Sonic copied the data from everyone there. He knows Metal Sonic will kill everyone without Super Sonic showing up. I do agree that seeing him fight anyway with the Egg Emperor or something would be cool, but he doesn't have anything to fight with, especially considering the Egg Emperor was destroyed earlier. There is nothing he can do in this situation. 15:04 I think it being pushed aside is because the game is really focusing on Shadow (obviously), and the fact it's not seen much is mostly because Shadow does not care. It's probably an even fight considering it's never really touched on. 17:19 Again the difference is he doesn't have any weapons with him, although I do grant you that 06 Eggman is boring.

[@__-be1gk]

What people don't know about Pollock is that he's such a good voice actor that he actually plays Eggman WORSE than he could because he follows his voice direction to the letter. He mentioned explaining the "A special race to see who's the fastest" line that he didn't even bring up how dumb the line was because it was what the writers wanted so it was his job to deliver. This is on top of him getting the garbage scripts of the modern era, the low quality in general of the cutscenes, etc etc

[@DangerousArmyGuy]

I'm glad you covered Dr. Eggman here. Too many people downplay him over and over over SatAM Robotnik and Archie Eggman. So showing how great of a villain game Eggman was in this video really helps out here. Both his good and bad traits really were balanced out before. But I forgive him for Heroes since he would know how powerful Metal Sonic became at that point by copying everyone and Perfect Chaos. And 06 Eggman was designed to match the more realistic humans of the game, but wish the Egg Pawns and other stuff with his face appeared also. And at least his eyes were okay, and the cutscenes did their best to hide them behind the glasses too. As for Unleashed, at least he still shows off his smarts by creating machines to attract the Dark Gaia Minions to him to reassemble Dark Gaia's power more easily. But would have liked a better balance of funny but deviously and dangerously clever. Here's hoping Eggman gets to be portrayed at his best again starting from Frontiers like in the Adventure games too. And another thing, honestly hoping Amy might be next. I really love how you covered all these topics for Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Dr. Eggman. And Amy's the only main classic character left out of the five of them. Though in Amy's case, I feel she got butchered plenty by America sadly... But in Japanese and some of the later localizations before the Meta Era, Amy was really able to be a great character. Especially in the original Japanese. Now, she's just the girl sadly. I'm glad she's better in the IDW issues by Evan Stanley and in the shorts by Tyson Hesse, going back to her Adventure and Unleashed characterization. Here's hoping all five of them can truly shine again, and wish Shiro Maekawa could come back to write them all again too.

[@playerback7722]

Good Job

[@darknova1552]

Don't put your hope up too much

[@iguro-sonic]

8:36 I saw a Sonic Paradox video when Eggman blew up the Earth Shadow called him an idiot. Then eggman said "what are you talkin about everything went according to plans now I can build my Empire" then Shadow said " and exactly where are you going to build it " and then he realized he messed up

[@darthcaedus9696]

I will say, I loved Eggman in Chronicles, and wish we had gotten a sequel. I also think part of his change was due to Sonic X, where he was more of a joke based character. The games saw how he was in the show and based it off that.

[@ivanlopezjr.2137]

He’s such a great video game villain and I think he just needs a vacation. Let some other villain mess with sonic while Eggman is out. That way he’s not so over saturated.

[@thepjshow]

It would be interesting to see a game without Eggman as the main villain now.

[@megajam4837]

Honestly as cool as seeing Sonic and his friends fighting robots is, I'd like to see them fight against supernatural creatures again just like in the "Dark Age" of Sonic games

[@austinreed7343]

@@megajam4837 The Deadly Six don't count. They're lame and used robots anyway.

[@megajam4837]

@@austinreed7343 And they were also just straight up clones of Bowser and the Koopalings, was Sega even being original at all when they made Sonic Lost World

[@TC7-Thecomplex7]

@@megajam4837 wait until you realize that the level layout and order is exactly like some mario games

[@sock2828]

Eggman has always been both comedic and also scary and villainous. You can even see it in his sprite animations in the original game. His characterization varies from either one or mixes them both depending on the game or the situation. It's always been like that.

[@Linknerd09]

The swearing in the video was quite funny to me. Especially the Tails screws up scene. XD I agree with every character video that you’ve done and I look back to our childhood games and think differently. The only thing that it’s making everyone change personality is awful writing. I do like jokes every now and then, but making the character almost comedic is too much. I do actually like redeeming endings like the one shown on Adventure 2. I really love those kinds of endings. I hope you do more of these videos, but maybe of other villains from other franchise? Just an idea. X) Great video as always! Hope you’ll make more in the future!

[@thepjshow]

Thanks a lot for the kind words! I definitely want to do more videos on villains. I'm gonna put up a poll soon to see what character is gonna be analysed next, so the video on a villain could be next.

[@undeadbatman9762]

@@thepjshow Dunno if anyone else acknowledged this, but the little clip with 06 Eggman falling with his chair at the end was absolutely hilarious and unexpected!

[@thepjshow]

@@undeadbatman9762 That was my favourite thing about Eggman from that game. I had to put it in.

[@matthewmotts9983]

I don’t think that egg man was being out of character is sonic hero’s. Egg man has everything thought out most of the time. PJ used the example of SA1 to compare to how he was out of character. In SA1, he brought in Chao to level a city but he also knew that chao might not be a blind follower. He built the Egg Carrier 2 because he knew something like this might happen he even says so in his dialog (7:01). His narcissism, feelings of being more powerful than anything ever, and lack of knowledge about chaos power lead him to believe that he could take out chao which wasn’t true. In Sonic Hero’s, eggman had built metal sonic, and as seen in previous games, he is a blind follower of eggman. Eggman never would have expect metal sonic to defy him so he didn’t prepare for it. He also knew how powerful metal sonic was since he designed him. Maybe eggman might have done more if he had his army but metal sonic took that so there was nothing he could really do. Eggman also knew that any of his efforts to thwart metal sonic would be futile since he knows the power of metal sonic since eggman made him. He knew the only way they could defeat him was with the 7 most powerful things in the sonic universe which explains his negative attitude. He keeps his genius status by actually refraining from fighting metal sonic head on. Like PJ said, it would be cool if eggman helped fight metal overlord but eggman probably saw it as a suicide run and geniuses like eggman don’t just kill themselves to their own creations.

[@cookiesontoast9981]

I love him in SA2. So serious compared to pretty much every other version of him.

[@hariman7727]

Adventure 1 and 2 were great. "Away with you, lest I make mincemeat out of you."

[@sberky98]

"I'VE COME TO MAKE AN ANNOUCEMENT"

[@angelmonroy9644]

YOSH

[@Mr.Galaxia]

Damn the writers really killed of the MAIN villain

[@porcuspine2368]

I still get chills the remembering the first time I played Adventure 2 and sonic walked up all snarky because he thought he was about to win. Sonic's "You've turned into a big time villain, doctor!" followed by Robotnik's 4d chess moves ultimately defeating sonic is peak Robotnik.

[@iron8te610]

I personally like Michael B. Pollock as the voice actor for Eggman... I might be biased since I kinda grew up with the modern voice actors...but I think the current voice for Eggman fits him more in my opinion...

[@thesonichero2619]

when it comes to Eggman I think he's been an okay character of recently I wish instead of him being the twist villain at the end of some of the Sonic games like for example Lost World at the end of the game you fight him which is kind of disappointing imagine at the end of the game Eggman returns in fights Zavok with Sonic like that would be cool or Instead at the end of Sonic forces Eggman gets double-crossed by infinite and he has to team up with Sonic or something or takes matters into his own hands

[@thepjshow]

When compared to other characters like Tails and Knuckles, I can kinda agree with this statement.

[@tohruadachi7248]

That's so sad that Eggman fell from greatness from being a threatening force to be reckoned with to just a comedic punching bag which sucks because he's one of my favorite villains of all time.

[@coolgreenbug7551]

I think one reason he isn't treated like a threat is because more often than not, he isn't one. Usually the main threat of a game is whatever eldtrich horror he dug up to try to conquer the world. In 06 it was solaris, in unleashed it was dark gaia, and in generations it was the time eater. The way his plots are handled now it gives the impression that without the maguffin demon of the week, eggman couldn't actually do much in terms of villainy, as apposed to the early games where he just used HIS army.

[@freelancerthe2561]

This makes me wish the Jim Cummings version would show up on one form or another again. You wanna talk clear and present threat, complete with the megalomania, narcissism, and just deliciously disturbing. And lets not forget the drooling. Its sad the more screen time he got, the more he fell victim to writers needing to dumb him down to give the heroes an out.

[@mjc0961]

In Adventure it was Chaos, in Heroes it was Metal Sonic which while his own creation might as well be an eldritch horror after that transformation cutscene, in Advance 3 it was that stupid robot, in Forces it was the Phantom Ruby (again, not really a demon, but close enough). How many times can they use that stupid plot of Eggman digging up some thing he can't control? So old, so tired, so played out. Just let him be the villain again. And make him threatening, instead of making him play second fiddle to his stupid robot who has wacky voices. They did the "horror he dug up to try and conquer the world" plot correctly in Lost World - he actually had a plan to control it for once, stops being able to control it in the middle of the game, which means the end game flip isn't "Eggman has to team up with Sonic to stop the horror he unleashed" for the 50th time, but rather "now that Eggman and Sonic have stopped the horror, Eggman can betray Sonic and try to destroy him once more"

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

@@mjc0961 In Adventure 1, Chaos isn't immediately a monster, Eggman has to go out of his way to find the Chaos Emeralds to power him up. Also no way in hell Lost World did the plot correctly. Eggman is an idiot for building a machine that can't be shut off when it reaches full power, the Deadly Six are Koopaling rip-offs with no motive to destroy the world just because they're evil, and dear God, the dialogue Sonic and Tails have after they "team up" with Eggman is PAINFUL, Tails especially. I've never wanted to reach through my TV and strangle a character in a Sonic game more than him, when he completely breaks his character and getting pissy for no reason. Eggman was not threatening, and neither were the Deadly Six. Lost World couldn't commit to ANYTHING, like Tails being brainwashed, which was also pointless in Colors, and Amy, Knuckles, and Eggman "dying." SEGA at the very least would've kept Shadow dead if there wasn't so much demand to bring him back. Lost World is the only game in the series where the story consistently pisses me off. Every other game I can just laugh at the stupidity, including Forces, and to a lesser extent Boom. None of the actual jokes in Colors are funny though. A plot type isn't good just because it's different, and you never actually criticized the plots in the other games beyond "they're overdone."

[@undeadbatman9762]

I feel like the “Eggman finds ancient horror, teams up with it and later gets betrayed by it, forcing Sonic to clean up the mess” plot point is over exaggerated. It only happened in Sonic Adventure and technically Unleashed (but Dark Gaia never was on Eggman’s side it only benefited from Eggman’s attempt at reconstructing it). Yeah it was kind of repetitive to fight another god or demon at some point but I’m saying this specific plot point is not as repeated as people say it is. A few corrections to your comment: *Solaris was never found by Eggman, it always existed, Shadow was the one who accidentally released the mind of Solaris. And Iblis was raging on Silver’s world for hundreds of years. *Eggman actually had complete control over Time Eater. This is the only time Eggman had legitimate control over an ancient power he came across.

[@fairystail1]

tbf even in the early games you would kick his butt a lot, multiple times in a game. There's only so often you can do that before he stops being taken seriously.

[@milesbaillie1011]

Pissing on the moon is definitely Eggman's greatest accomplishment

[@bonkeykong858]

I’m not nearly as bothered with eggman as I am with sonic, knuckles, tails, and shadow, but this should still be interesting

[@thepjshow]

Fair enough. There is actually a lot of people that do enjoy a more comedic Eggman, and when compared to what happened to other characters, it doesn't seem as bad by comparison. In any case, I do hope you enjoy the video!

[@bonkeykong858]

@@thepjshow I think eggman’s character got worse from the meta era, as he lost the seriousness he had before and they leaned far into the comedic stereotype which kind of sucks. His character isn’t horrible, but this video does point out how he could be better. I think it’s fine for him to be a little comedic, like how he was from the start, but they definitely went a little too far

[@johnpett1955]

@@bonkeykong858 comedic Eggman is okay but I think the best way to make Eggman would be kinda like Sonic's personality where he knows when to be serious but also knows when a good time for one liners is but with Eggman's goofiness. That is how you make a one dimensional character into a complex one and I like complex more than simple

[@orangeslash1667]

@@thepjshow Its get worse than Yuji Naka leaving, I did some research on the sonic wiki to to answer the question how Sonic unleashed is a passionate game with out Naka???? Well it turns out the director Yoshihisa Hashimoto Is not only a programer on Sonic advance 2 but he also made the Hedgehog Engine. Sadly he left Sega for Square Enix, and Sonic Unleashed is the last Sonic game to be made by sonic team USA and since then Sonic games are now low budget. Thats two Developers that Sega lost. Why because all Sega cares for arcade sales and pachinko machines, due to the fact that Sega was bought by Sammy in 2004. 3d Sonic so far is about as dead as Metal Gear, not just gameplay but also the characters. The good news is that Freedom Planet comes pretty close to the passion that Adventure 2 had.

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

@@orangeslash1667 Too bad it focused on the wrong things and bit off more than it could chew

[@TallFry2]

The thing with Heroes was actually playing into Eggman's confidence in his own creation. Metal Overlord had integrated with that fleet you mentioned, and is also touting his own brilliance with Metal Sonic overall. Metal is his favorite creation, after all.

[@NoiriumIdk]

It is sad that this is what Eggman has become, same can be said of all the characters. Glad you made a video on him, he is easily in my top 3 all time favorite characters in the franchise.

[@darknova1552]

Facts

[@DaBean-mw7zu]

The bit about metal is that eggman made him and knows EXACTLY his potential unlike chaos