SONIC HEROES: The Icon's Decline | GEEK CRITIQUE

In 2003, the Sonic the Hedgehog series very nearly began a second golden age. Sonic Heroes was positioned as the culmination of that era, as Sega capped off the "Year of Sonic."
This is where everything started to go wrong.
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VOICE CAST:
Thank you all SO much for helping make that section come together so spectacularly! You all were so wonderful that I've had more than one person, including my girlfriend, turn to me and ask if that was REALLY in the game. :D
SONIC THE HEDGEHOG:
Penny Parker
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MILES "TAILS" PROWER:
Jennifer Losi
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KNUCKLES THE ECHIDNA:
MMPR Blog
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mmprr.blogspot.com/p/mmpr-epis...
DR. IVO "EGGMAN" ROBOTNIK:
Andrew Covarrubias
/ itscovarr

[@RednekGamurz]

Alright, this comment might be a little messy due to me trying to get all my thoughts together as I type it, but let me do my best to defend Heroes: To start off, let me just say that Heroes was my first 3D Sonic game, kinda. I rented SA1 DX once from Blockbuster prior, but I never got farther than Windy Valley for both Sonic and Tails. I also played the original trilogy prior to Heroes, so make of that as you will. The controls have never been an issue for me. Even at 9 years old, I was able to grasp them really well, since even though there's 3 formations, each formation only has a small hand-full of moves, and it's as easy as "this button does this in the air, and it does this on the ground", much like the Adventure games. The option you presented just kinda confused me, no offense. There's also the issues of slipperyness. It's slippery for sure, but the game is built around that, not only with the ledge-catching mechanic, but also with the flight formation in general. Anytime there's tricky platforming, flight formation is a great option to switch to, since you can just catch yourself if you miss a platform or fall off an edge. It's also really handy for rail grinding, especially if you're getting used to the rail switching mechanic. Last thing I'll say about the controls though, is that I wish you could switch formations in the air. Seems like a weird limitation, though I don't find it a super big issue or anything. The levels in this game are great (aside from Casino Park). I even like BINGO Highway. At least in that level, you aren't restricted to trying to navigate through pinball tables, and I feel like those narrow pathways compliment those narrow pathways a lot more than full-blown pinball tables. The levels in general are full of memorable set-pieces and gimmicks, and the visuals on them are on-point for a Sonic game. My favorite out of the entire bunch is Egg Fleet. Egg Fleet is to me what Bridge Zone is to you. That intro with Eggman taunting the heroes about his airships, followed by the leader of the team throwing out their own awesome line is great. Then that shot of your team running towards the camera with the cannons firing on them, then your team hits that ramp, followed by the camera panning behind them just to give you an amazing glimpse at the expansive level before you, pure genius. I remember being a kid and thinking that the airships in the background were part of the level, it looked so good to me. It still impresses me today. That's something that definitely couldn't be done on Dreamcast hardware. Even after the intro, the level never stops letting up. The level design is surprisingly open, and it still manages to have a ton of fun setpieces, like destroying both of the main airships, and dodging the cannons as you fly around with that tiny propeller thing, and God damn, that music. One of the hypest levels in video games, and the one I wish came back for Generations. Final Fortress is great too, it's one of the most atmospheric final levels in Sonic for sure, but nothing will top Egg Fleet for me. The music is another big highlight here, in fact, it's one of my top 5 favorite Sonic soundtracks. There's not a single song on the soundtrack that I dislike, even the really cheesy ones like "With Me" and "We Can". The soundtrack feels like a blend of the Adventure style attitude, and the classics of the Genesis trilogy, and it's brilliant. I think this game made me appreciate bass slaps, if anything. There's a ton of them on this soundtrack, but they're all so good. Favorites here are "Egg Fleet", "Rail Canyon", "Grand Metropolis", "Egg Albatross", "What I'm Made Of", and "Team Chaotix". I'll finish off by playing Devil's Advocate, and talk briefly about things I don't like. Metal Sonic should've been a bigger surprise. This didn't effect me much with I was younger, since I didn't even know who Metal Sonic was, but it's a glaring issue now. They should've hide him more in cutscenes, but leave some of the subtle hints alluding to him in the levels, like that one with the Eggman statue in Hang Castle. The multiplayer is pretty dull. The standard race mode is fine, but all the other modes are boring and a waste of time (at least the secret Metal skins are cool). Having to play through the game 4 times just to get the true ending is pretty bad. One team of your choice and the Chaos Emeralds should've been the only requirements there, then if you were curious about how the other teams ended up at the finale, you could just play their stories. The Chaotix missions mostly suck. The team battles in the story are a joke as well. The game does hold your hand too much, and I really don't understand why. I think that's it. At the end of the day, I think the big reason why this game pisses you off and I enjoy it is that I didn't hear about all these claims of a return to form before playing it. I was just a naive kid who got it as a birthday present one year, and just accepted it as a more action-focused Sonic game. If it weren't for Melee, I think Heroes would've been my most played game on the Gamecube. It was like nothing I had ever played before, and even today it's a really unique experience. I still pop it in from time to time, and have a blast with it, though I get where you're coming from now. Apologizes for the essay.

[@AleT118]

I made a 7-Page essay about this review as well.

[@stevenbowen8098]

Indeed and i complete sonic heroes on the Xbox original and i wish i have it on the Nintendo GameCube

[@dvdbytes4348]

@@stevenbowen8098 Why on the Gamecube ? ( I have that version of the game so i'm wondering if there is something unusual about it)

[@Alejandro333777]

RednekGamurz this is the last game w Sonics original voice cast? Around 38 mins... i couldve sworn they were the same in shadow the hedgehog and sonic 06... which i liked for story and mephlis...

[@SianaGearz]

@@Alejandro333777 I don't think it's even the original cast. I mean Tails sure isn't, it's some 6 year old.

[@Brodbrody]

"He met the love of his life." "I got Sonic Heroes."

[@XSniper74184]

Hmm, can I get a minute to weigh those options?

[@jrrr9219]

That perfectly sums up Sonic for me.

[@emibudd2228]

What’s the difference?

[@Sabertooth1000000000]

@@emibudd2228 Quite a lot according to this video!

[@MarkCabaniss]

Brodbrody I feel rather sorry for Mr. Geek Critique.

[@Danbo22987]

*Sonic game does really well sales wise and is praised overall* Sonic Team: "FUCK, back to the drawing board."

[@KyleEvra]

That's basically how they are.

[@megamike15]

it was more the adventure engine was built for the dream cast and they had to make a new one.

[@Otakupatriot117]

Applies even better to Generations. The most successful Sonic game in a decade, having perfected the boost system by combining the speed of unleashed and the skill of colors, with minimal gimmicks. Only 2 characters that play similarly and are well within the realm of what a Sonic game should be. The only downside being the unoriginal levels, but with hopes high that the next game would be fully unique and original with the same refined gameplay. And then they just put Sonic in a Mario game.

[@tahamohammad8842]

@@megamike15 that’s a bad excuse, if both adventure 2 and 1 could be ported to the GameCube(and in the case of adventure 2, be perfectly fine in comparison to the original ) than there’s no reason to believe that an adventure 3 couldn’t work on a GameCube

[@piranhalettuce]

This is just Sonic Team in a nutshell.

[@DemonOfMyMind]

Sonic heroes story in a nutshell. metal sonic: "how could I lose?" Sonic: "Hahaha! You ain't go no friends! Duh!"

[@zap648]

Sonic Forces in a nutshell. ^

[@lmao2302]

That's so mean lmao. Maybe he wanted to take over the world because he had some deep rooted issues that he got from being lonely as one of the few sentient robots. All he wanted was to rule the world but Sonic bullied him out of it. It wasn't even one on one Metal Sonic got gangbanged.

[@nicholastapsum-bong3324]

@@lmao2302 He isn't a Naruto villain lol

[@bandicootsauce4569]

What is this, Friendship Is Magic? Lol!

[@terminallthe1morbiusstanin371]

That's Fairy Tail

[@latrodectusmactans7592]

Omega is legitimately one of the most entertaining parts of the game. "Worthless consumer models."

[@ivythay4259]

That is true. One of the best contributions this game made was introducing Omega, as well as reintroducing the Chaotix.

[@muddybuddy9299]

KILL ANNIHILATION

[@ajflink]

Doesn't this imply that Eggman sells his machines?

[@jasminefayte9275]

You're just mad because you couldn't find the computer room...

[@TownOfCoom]

Wrong game but it made me laugh

[@jasminefayte9275]

@@TownOfCoom shhhhhhhhh, he doesn't know that; he never played the chaotix stages...

[@cliffturbo2146]

@@jasminefayte9275 I found it with ease!

[@Francisco_P]

@@darkyumenine729 I am the computer room

[@shufflebot9000]

Bodied lmao

[@TheZeroNeonix]

"We're returning to Sonic's roots." Oh, I'm sure that'll be the last time we hear that promise. lol

[@supersmashbro596]

it's funny, because in all the times they made that promise, only ONE time did they actually make a game thats back to the genesis roots... and it wasnt even by them but the ascended fanboys taxman and stealth.

[@Yuli_Ban]

That wasn't even the FIRST time they said that

[@Shenaldrac]

Stop trying to "return to Sonic's roots" and start trying to _make a good video game._ Stop trying to make Sonic what it was, accept that the past is past, and what people want, ultimately, is a good, fun, solid video game. Stop trying to care about story, stop trying to cater to kiddies, stop introducing more and more and more characters. This is Sonic the Hedgehog, make a game with him and only him in it that is fun and enjoyable. Focus on that. Do that. Let everything else in the design be secondary to that.

[@roosterboots4684]

Another day, another door Another high, another low Rock bottom, rock bottom, rock bottom

[@ctpp64]

@@Shenaldrac you say that all people want is a good game, but then go on and say that they absolutely need to only focus on Sonic himself. This is pretty much the issue...all you fans have conflicting ideas of what "good" is for Sonic

[@hawk1392]

Your friend definitely made the right decision, good call on his part 🤣

[@BenderBendingRodriguezOFFICIAL]

"shiny plastic action figures" Basically dragonball xenoverse series.

[@kidkatanatv]

Hehe

[@Digitalhdwmn]

😂😂😂😂

[@Yuli_Ban]

Xenoverse is nowhere near as bad as the Raging Blast series in that regard

[@Neoniq41]

Still a better game then Heroes

[@mariofan1ish]

They just revealed ANOTHER roadmap for Xenoverse 2 a few days ago. How on Earth is this game still going?!

[@SirSicCrusader]

"The gameplay is BROKEN! ...into three distinct styles..." that jokes so good/bad, I could have written it...

[@dasantihero2827]

Tomatoes for sale! Get yer tomatoes!

[@RobynReanimates]

Oh wow! I literally just came from one of your videos

[@SirSicCrusader]

You came on one of my videos? ...no wonder it was so sticky.

[@RobynReanimates]

@@SirSicCrusader Came from is not the some as cumming on, you brute. I have *some* decency

[@SirSicCrusader]

THEN EXPLAIN THE STICKINESS!1!?

[@originalElctric]

How dare you, let me get angry despite not seeing the video, see you in 45 min

[@TheWorldsBiggestFan89]

Strange isn't it?!!!

[@alwaysangry2232]

"reads comment section", who saw that coming in the most autistic fandom ever XDDD

[@AleT118]

This was my exact opinion when looking at this thumbnail lol

[@skaionex]

@@alwaysangry2232 and how are sonic fans autistic? Do tell

[@canariawing]

@Always angry >using autistic as an insult in 2018 hmmmmm

[@zeez7935]

Sonic Heroes might have the most potential for a remake/sequel of any sonic game, the overall appeal of the game is great even to this day

[@TotallyAwesomeWrestlingTAW]

Got this game when I was little and it quickly became one of my all time favorites. It made me a Sonic fan. Fast forward to 2018...it's still one of my favorites and my absolute favorite Sonic game period (even though objectively it's not the best by a long shot). I still play it from time to time as a 21 year old. Despite all of that, I respect your opinion even though I disagree with you.

[@jenisia3600]

Well said 👍

[@Skylancer727]

I tend to be in the same point as Geek Critique on this one, not from teenage angst as I was only 7 when I got this game, but just because I hated the combat in it and the sloppy controls. I actually never 100% this game purely because I couldn't stand restarting a level after taking 1 hit considering some levels are nearly 15 minutes long. I did beat all the stories, but even that I push off for years as I just didn't like the controls and the fighting. When I first got the game I only beat Sonic and Amy's stories, came back about a year later and beat Chaoticx and putting the game down half way after getting to the Bingo Highway level, and came back about 2 years later to beat Shadows. It just hurt to play in my eye. In that time comparing it to other games it made me think Shadow the Hedgehog was a masterpiece as it controlled well and the guns were so much better than constantly homing attacking enemies. It wasn't tell shortly after beating the game that I learned about Adventure and Adventure 2 and I never played Heroes again yet I still play Shadow to this day. Controls matter a lot to the game to me. The slippery nature and constant cheap and glitchy deaths really turns me off from ever playing Heroes again.

[@TheKazeblade]

"He met the love of his life. I got Sonic Heroes." Lol that is the PERFECT sum-up! Great video as always!

[@GeekCritique]

Haha, yeah, we joke about that to this day.

[@wolfpacsyxx]

He never sums anything up all his videos are hyper inflated fluff that drag on way too long, like over 45 minutes talking about his personal gripes with a game not any objective information just a long gripe session about his subpar skills and experience. You kids are nuts these days, as an older guy you young ones don’t seem to even know what “sum it up” means.

[@summerycast7936]

wolfpacsyxx Personally those histories are what I love about reviews because it highlights what perspective he had initially compared to now. If all reviews were trying to be as objective as possible, I'd be downright bored. It's not like this will affect the metacritic score, so let him have fun with it I say. Also, this game CAN be wonky at times. Lord knows how many times I fell to my death just from switching to a rail. It wasn't even on a curve, just a straight path. No matter your skill, this can happen. That's why I prefer to hop onto another rail instead of switching.

[@wozthescott2804]

That line was great lol

[@90sNath]

I don't even wanna imagine how his friend's life would have turned out had he decided to go over for Sonic Herors instead.

[@bandicootsauce4569]

"The gameplay is BROKEN." "...Into three distinct styles." That actually got a laugh out of me. (:

[@alexanderstilianov]

Wow, that fan-voice acting was so spot on that I didn't even realize it wasn't the original VAs untill Knuckles opened his mouth.

[@Zebo12345678]

"Are we even playing as the real Shadow...?" "THOSE QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED IN TWO *DAMN* YEARS WHEN _THIS_ SPINOFF COMES OUT!"

[@ericjp2000]

Sonic Heroes is probably one of the most 50/50 Sonic games ever, in a fanbase that is already so devided no less...

[@alexthejapanfan7905]

The Sonic Fanbase Is The Worst Fanbase Ever Too.

[@ericjp2000]

@@Covarr I'm the kinda guy who can openly admit I'm a Sonic fanboy, but will also say that only about 60% of the games in the series are any good, Heroes is in this odd enigmatic state of mediocrity were I honestly can't tell what side of the bandwagon I'm on, I guess it's kind of like a guilty pleasure, I'll turn it on every few months or so, play a level or two, and then promtly place it back next to my other Gamecube Sonic games, of which many I would rather play, and yes, that technically includes Shadow the Hedgehog.

[@hockeater]

@@ericjp2000 I mean, to be fair to shadow, his game has less instant kill glitches/control based deaths, and while the writing is hilariously bad that's still something you can laugh at as opposed to bland bad. I would shadow before I heroes. I would many other sonic games before either, but I'd say heroes is probably worst primary sonic of that console generation. Possibly without the primary qualifier.

[@ericjp2000]

@@hockeater Exactly, it might also help that Shadow is unironically my favorite character in the series, despite the the many OC tropes he spawned...

[@Xavier-jt5do]

ejp gamer The only people I see in the comment section are people who love Heroes. The only person I’ve seen who dislikes Sonic Heroes is me which makes me feel really out of place here lol.

[@iamhighlydisappointed9942]

It's hot garbage, but it's *my* hot garbage and I love it ❤

[@GeekCritique]

This is exactly how I feel about Sonic R. :D

[@kylecampbell565]

@@GeekCritique and how I feel about Sonic Riders or Zelda Spirit Tracks (whichever is more accurate to the description of hot garbage)

[@iamhighlydisappointed9942]

@The Geek Critique SAME. That game was unbalanced af (pick Amy to lose instantly) and learning to move around is tricky but my complete childhood along with Heroes. I still listen to its soundtrack to this day, the whole game is jamming

[@mayayamato7351]

exactly. this hot garbage was one of my first pc games waaay back when. i loved the music and the look of all the levels even when the gameplay was massive overcomplicated sharts. it sucked ass but i loved it.

[@CedroEscarlate]

@@GeekCritique lmao same

[@zayzaylol]

The music... The music was fire tho...

[@kieranstark7213]

And the highlight of the music? *FINAL FORTRESS'S ORIGINAL TRACK FROM THIS GAME.* Was I being too specific????

[@tdenzel101]

The whole sonic heroes was 🔥 between sonic adventure 2 And sonic heroes I can’t choose both games had great soundtracks

[@PandorasTmrw]

One of the first game soundtracks I downloaded to put on my iPod 😅

[@user-bi9tp8zb9k]

Heck yea the music was amazing: seaside hill, ocean palace, we can, follow me, casino stage, battle city. So many memories and such a great soundtrack.

[@DelgonidoDargo]

Dude even Sonic ‘06 had a fire music track. Sonic games always have the best music.

[@theorangeslice9678]

I'd love to see the Heroes formula re-visted at some point. The game is absolutely a hot mess, but out of every other 3D gameplay style out there, I honestly think it has the most potential for refinement. One of the big issues with the game was its linearity and insistence on the "team" aspect. If you made branching paths that took advantage of each character's attributes, and treated each character as a separate character, you'd have something more moldable.

[@lugbzurg8987]

On top of that, I'd actually like to see MORE formations created somehow. Still have teams of three, but no two teams share the same combination of formations. Team Sonic would of course have a Speed, Fly, and Power character, but no other team would have that combination. Some other team might have a Swim formation character (Chaos?) who performs far better in the water than on dry land. Steath formation? Slash formation? Gun formation? There's a lot of possibilities.

[@islandboy9381]

There are branching paths in the game for other teammates to find, some harder to find then others but they're there.

[@robertolebron2296]

@@islandboy9381 like in Frog Forest. I played that today and it was interesting to explore with Team Sonic.

[@YWNBAW69]

did you even play the game? the levels are designed so you CAN use all three members

[@theorangeslice9678]

@@YWNBAW69 in very limited controlled segments. The stages are mainly designed with one road in mind that occasionally throws obstacles at you that require another team member. My ideal scenario is fully fleshed-out paths that take advantage of each team member's strengths ala Sonic 3.

[@Stavekoff]

Congrats to your friend for making the right choice 14 years ago.

[@ninjazard9187]

even if his friend did play the game with him, I don't think it would ruin his chance with his girl.

[@Rackyack]

@@ninjazard9187 I doubt Sonic Heroes was worth the risk

[@freshboy3968]

@@ninjazard9187 Yep. ... Or could it? ( º ¬ º )

[@chugga]

You hit the nail on the head for why the gameplay gets old beyond just having to go through it four separate times. Personally, I think Team Dark is the worst part of the game. It's just the Team Sonic levels with more enemy gates so it takes way longer, Shadow has no reason to be here and it's never explained, and nobody really accomplishes anything in the story. Plus in hindsight, Team Dark's incredibly light story paved the way for so much stupid stuff. This was the start of Shadow going from being a well-liked character to just somebody who's there because he's popular, but they have no idea what to do with him because the game all about him is over. Since you asked us, my personal perspective is that Sonic Adventure 2 was my first Sonic game that I ever owned and I was in that newly captured audience. My friends had Sonic Genesis games, but I only saw bits and pieces. My 11 year old self thought Sonic Adventure 2 had the greatest story ever, I cried at the end, and couldn't believe I'd been missing out on what Sonic apparently was all these years. I thought Sonic was all about high speed action, larger than life stories, raising Chao, and the icing on the cake was getting to play as the bad guys since no other game I'd seen allowed that. I know now that it's a really weird story with some good ideas that are held back by the presentation and a sloppy translation, but back then as a newcomer, it was the best. Similarly, I too had a Sonic Heroes desktop background and rewatched the trailers every day that I'd painstakingly downloaded on 2002 internet! That part of the video perfectly captured growing up with the countdown to Heroes! When it came out, I popped it in knowing my beloved Chao Garden was gone, but that was okay because I was going to get the super-amazing best story ever that would continue the plot of Sonic Adventure 2 and answer all my questions about Shadow! The explanation for how he lived would hit me in the face for how cool it was and how I never saw it coming! I'd been waiting years to know this and it was finally here! The first few levels passed without incident, the opening cutscene pumped me up, was having fun seeing all these new abilities for the first time, the levels looked great and were very creative, then Casino Park happened. Sure, the pinball physics and level itself were frustrating in perfect agreement with everything you said, but all my excitement for the game as a whole deflated in one moment at the start of the level before all that. It was Tails's line "Sonic! We only have 24 hours left!" I went into the plot knowing it would take place across three days before Eggman's plan, whatever it was, would take over the world. My young self thought in those three days, we were going to learn about this grand plan, how Shadow tied into all of it, why Metal Sonic was there (Thanks, trailers and marketing!), and it was going to be the coolest gathering of all these characters I loved. I'd only been playing for 30 minutes and I find out we already got all the story we were going to get and all the reason for the characters being there. Because in Tails's words, the events of the story were almost over before anything interesting had even happened. I just kind of fumbled through Casino Park, feeling let down even though the music was nice and made me feel a little happy underneath it all. Then I got to Bingo Highway, lost all my lives due to unfair deaths caused by such great things as switching to a teammate to do something required who was still on the pinball table and sailing into a bottomless pit. Got my first game over, stood up, and just did my chores instead for the rest of the afternoon. I played it more the next day and a few days beyond that, eventually reaching the end of all four stories, but it wasn't such a necessary, urgent thing for me to do any more. Another huge moment that slowed me down was finishing Team Dark. I was motivated out of wanting to know anything about what was going on or how Shadow was still alive. It was very frustrating to play and felt long, but I was pushing through to earn the story I wanted. Upon finishing it, it confirmed what I already thought. Shadow was here for no reason and that I'd be playing the same levels four times because Dark was no different from Sonic. I kind of felt ripped off in the end, never went back to it aside from the music and to play a few specific levels like Frog Forest and Egg Fleet. I don't think I'd rate the game quite as low, because now that I went through it once, I can appreciate it for a one team play through every so often knowing that I'm not missing anything by skipping the other three. But yeah, I thought this was a huge disappointment back when it happened, even if I liked some qualities about it a lot. I know my want for an amazing story sounds weird now, but at 13 years old that's what I thought Sonic was all about. Congratulations to that friend for making the right choice! What a good trade!

[@matthewduperon8807]

Wait, you watch TGC? Cool.

[@Supermariorpg6]

Chuggaconroy shall only be married to Earthbound, and Xenoblade.

[@Supermariorpg6]

Probably another few years down the line... I think Chugga has a backlog of games he wants to do before getting to Xenoblade 2. @@fakebird000

[@BowblaxBeta]

super cool to see someone like you leave such an in-depth comment. enjoyed reading it after watching the video :)

[@pinstripecool34]

chuggaaconroy woah chugga didnt expect to see you here.

[@chameleoncham3911]

I wish Sega would make a sequal to Sonic Heroes, it had so much potential to be something so much more than a clunky game which I admittedly still love till this day.

[@2Scribble]

That's been part of SonicTeam's problem for the last two or three decades - they keep putting out these rushed Sonic prototypes, get surprised when they don't Do well and then quickly waddle off and try something else As has been said - you'll never break your new footwear in if you keep rebooting :P

[@epiczombies34]

I love sonic heroes beacuse of how bad it is. I had only a few games after my first game cube was stolen and sonic heroes being terribly made me play it hours longer than adult me ever would and i got good at breaking the game purposely

[@YWNBAW69]

monkey's paw, monkey's paw, monkey's paw

[@kasumichanxx8390]

Well before the story went off in some crazy direction the story was building off each other with sonic adventure n adventure 2 battle n sonic hero but then it got way to wacky

[@localman4486]

I know I'm late but still wana share this story, so here goes ... One day during school, I got picked up by my dad because of the serious case of bullying that was going on, but instead of going home eating chocolate and playing on my ps2 my dad said we had to do somthing educational as part of the deal to get out of school so we went to a museum and art gallery which were pretty fun by the end of it we stopped at a café and while we were there he said I could have my b-day present early that's when he showed me sonic heroes on ps2. It might not be the best sonic game out there, nor the worst but I will always remember this day because of this game.

[@erikperez4829]

Sonic heroes is kind of a guilty pleasure for me

[@cashbag]

Erik Perez No guilt, just pleasure. I still love this game.

[@Zegaexiron]

I 100% this game. Even with everything wrong with it, I somehow found a way to have fun with it and got 100%

[@JosephACKelly]

What I love about these videos is the passion. I never got Sonic. It wasn't until much later in life I actually got to play it. It wasn't for me but I saw the appeal. This videos capture the essence of the passion I have for the games I like and I'm continuously rewatching. Even if you are not a fan of Sonic, you leave the video feeling more emotionally invested in the property

[@islandboy9381]

Honestly Sonic Heroes is a game where it's game design on paper is excellent here's why: it has the sensibilities from Sonic 3 gameplay with all three characters from that game available at the same time and no inbetween interruptions from level to level, combined with the mechanics in Adventure. The levels have branching paths and there's creative freedom in some areas for the player in how to go through it, with the ranking/trick system incentivizing replayability and improved play. The bosses also give you freedom in how you approach to attack them just like in the classics. It also has the perfect aesthetic and creative level locations I would want out of a Sonic game. Unfortunately what holds it back a bit is terrible programming of the characters, rushed level design where you go through setpieces or sections from the levels over and over again to pad out the time (I heard Izuka literally was the only level designer left on this game midway during development because the other designer got sick and him rushing everything to meet the deadline gave some health issues oof), some repetitive gauntlets disguised as boss battles plus bad localization. Honestly I would rather prefer a Heroes 2 than an Adventure 3 at this point because so much more potential can be brought out with Heroes game design when improved.

[@thetbhresistance7042]

The thing with heroes is that you would need to entirely rework the team system and level design to get any of that potential. While being able to fly. Glide. And run at insane speeds all at the same time sounds awesome. The level design would need to be absolutely gargantuan for that to work….. or you make each of the abilities given to you utterly useless and fill the level design with padding. Also. With no hubworlds. You would have to make at the very least 14 levels. If you want a satisfactory playtime. While a hypothetical Heroes 2 COULD be the best 3D sonic. The amount of work that would be required to make it a reality is just too much. Which is why i want Sega to refine Adventure 1‘s pseudo-open design instead. As that is simply much more in reach of what sonic team is able to do.

[@zjzr08]

@@thetbhresistance7042 These statements makes me think "we're already past this point with other game series" and I still think making say 35 zones (with some repeating on some Teams) should be as doable as the big areas we have now for Frontiers (although admittedly Heroes and a lot other 3D Sonic games have more background set pieces than Frontiers, although doesn't have the Titan level spectacle Frontiers had).

[@SolaisY]

Somehow, as someone who loved Sonic Heroes more than Adventure 2, and all that (as I tweeted to you at the time), I still somehow manage to 100% agree with you. Incredible.

[@Soniman001]

If you agree with everything in this review (where he pretty much thinks every aspect of the game is terrible) I have to wonder if you sincerely like the gsne at all if you don't have a single disagreement on it :/

[@JackBz]

Sonic Heroes was the first main Sonic game to just completely disregard Sonic's main game mechanic: momentum based platforming with the ability to roll into a ball down slopes etc. Pretty sad that they have never incorporated that into a 3d sonic game since

[@redblack8766]

I'm sorry, but saying it "completely" disregards momentum based platforming is incorrect. There's less emphasis on it yes, but that's not the same as "completely disregards".

[@JackBz]

Red Black in what ways is it in tact? Honestly the closest thing I can think of is the god awful pinball sections, which I'm pretty sure are the only moments you can roll

[@redblack8766]

I talking about momentum based platforming, not rolling.

[@kylecampbell565]

Lost World was entirely based around momentum. Look up a speed run of the game to see the kind of stuff you can pull

[@keithdavid1544]

The sonic adventure 2 battle graphics looks better than sonic heroes graphics in my opinion.

[@nintendolife]

Cracking stuff, I've never been able to give Heroes a proper go myself as I was so put off by it when I watched my friend play it. Much like you I think I was slap bang in that age category that meant whilst I was the target demographic before, I no longer was when Heroes hit the shelves. Part of me wants to give it a go just for the sake of it, and that it SURELY can't be as awful as Shadow the Hedgehog, but then I'd have to play Sonic Heroes.

[@theminecraft2516]

I think Sonic Heroes is amazing

[@yohschannel5226]

In a way, i prefer Shadow the hedgehog stages cause at least i can Choose how i can go through levels and what level i will go, aside from all levels being different. (But if you don't like some stage but want to go to some path (Except from the final ones) you can swap stage selection to go in your prefered way) Of course, they still have really stressful missions and Level designs, the fact that every path have Two endings, and having to at least repeat an stage that you may not like so much to go to another.

[@tdenzel101]

Sonic heroes have the BEST SOUNDTRACK outta all the sonic games ill put sonic adventure 2 second. Heroes is great fun It could’ve slippery at times but if you know how to control them then you should have a good time..!!

[@ITRASHBOATI]

I grew up with that game and never beat it. just recently I started the game from the beginning and completed it all the way through. I actually really hate the game and dislike it more than when I was a kid and played it. I’d say give it a try tho. but trust me if you don’t like beating the game once, you won’t like it 4 times

[@discoverarcane]

"Charmy_shutup_1" lmfao that killed me

[@giantenemyfool]

I loved Sonic Heroes, and so did a lot of other people. I still respect your opinion, nonetheless.

[@giantenemyfool]

Lol, please, don’t try to start some shitty argument over the fact that you can’t respect one’s opinion. If you’re going to disagree with someone, reply with a friendly matter. If you dislike Heroes, I still respect you, as stated earlier... but not in a way that is required for you to act like an asswipe to others. You fucking KZbin pricks need to understand that everyone is different from one another.....

[@giantenemyfool]

EJ Taylor. True dat.

[@giantenemyfool]

Guess what? The ignorant asswipe returned...... I hope you realize that most people enjoyed Sonic Heroes, and you don’t speak for everyone. I respect your opinion (even though you’re desperate to claim it’s a fact, typical butthurt minecraft player) if you dislike the game, but it’s not right to force a stick in your ass to prove nothing. Sonic Heroes did good for its time, and that’s a legitimate fact. Did you drop out of school? Learn subjective vs objective, and when you do, give mommy back her phone... Absolutely no one in the world likes people like you, I don’t know why I’m spending valuable time on your BS anyway. Clean up your act.

[@looneytoastywolf]

Saaaame but i also respect the opinion ♡

[@giantenemyfool]

star I like the game because it reminded me of my CHILDHOOD, not because I am obsessed with some gaming character that will die eventually. If you have so much spare time to constantly reply over someone else’s point of view, you legit have no life. Find some friends. Get a job. Go to college. Piece of shit... It even likes its own comments...

[@Joseph-li3df]

You know you're good at analysis videos when you can criticize such a beloved game and still have a comment section full of its fans saying "I can see where you're coming from." Great vid, Josh! The only Sonic game I've played is Mania, but I love these Sonic videos anyway because they're just so good. Keep it up.

[@mr.nickname9172]

Or maybe he just attracts level headed people? Not counting me of course.

[@hockeater]

I mean on average that's probably one of the best ratio of happiness to get from the series. Maybe also pick up generations as the best boost game. Lots of people like the adventure games, and they do have merit, but I'd argue they're more of a mixed bag. Still better than bad, but with visible flaws.

[@Joseph-li3df]

The only other Sonic games that interest me are 2 and 3&Knuckles. I'll probably try one of the 3D games at some point, but they don't really seem that interesting to me.

[@hockeater]

@@Joseph-li3df Reasonable. 3&K was also one of the better ones.

[@alanchavez5962]

Can we just take a minute to recognize that Omega was the only fully “new” character they added? You gotta respect Sega here for bringing back old faces instead of making up new furry friends for Sonic

[@blueeyeswhitevegeta4986]

Before they did that anyway. No cap tho, Team Dark has such a good dynamic. Even in the bad games, it seems like Team Dark tends to be the best parts of them. Sonic Heroes introduced us to Omega and allowed Shadow and Rouge to develop more, Omega being a comedic center for the 3 without being forced. Shadow the Hedgehog- well- it was a game? I do have to admit when he wasn't being overly edgy Shadow had good characterization. Then with Sonic 06 despite being a train wreck team dark returns to their personalities from SA2 for Rouge and Shadow and Omega is still best robot. Especially since Sonic 06 was surprisingly the last time their characters (specifically poor Shadow) got developed.

[@Squishito]

They did actually invent Cream specifically for this game as they didn't have enough girls to throw onto the Amy team, but they thought seeing as Advance 2 was being made they had Cream put in there first so she would feel like a returning character. So it was kind of a trick in a sense. Omega also is an obvious stand in for Gamma and I guess Eggman so that was their way of making him an old face in a way. They definitely had a goal to bring back old stuff in this game. Originally the game was going to have Mighty, Ray, Fang, Bean, Bark, Gamma, Chaos, and a playable Metal Sonic all show up in teams of their own but they trimmed it down to what we got. At least the Chaotix still got brought back. I will still always mourn the loss of modern Fang though.

[@thememerschemer6627]

Even Omega is sort of a homage to Gamma

[@cutesyprincess14]

Give me more Furry Friends! 🥺♥️

[@demonman905]

I'm just gonna say Crush 40 absolutely killed it with the Sonic Heroes theme. That song alone made me sit through the intro every single God damned time I started the game up.

[@spartanq7781]

Nowadays we can look it up or listen to it in Generations. Hell even while playing a stage.

[@JustAndre92]

I approve of your use of _Generations's_ version of "Big Arm" at 14:47 to signify your rage steadily boiling over.

[@gamecreaterdude13]

I HAD THAT SAME EXACT WALLPAPER IN 2003 LMAOOOOO

[@kimberlyyancey4303]

Me toooo lol

[@wileyjohnson5955]

Funny thing about Rail Canyon, the Spark 3 demo launched a few days ago, and it actually does a desert level with grind rails as a primary level gimmick, and it does it really friggin well.

[@J00SH]

When he said, "was this worth it Josh" I had to take a double take lmao. My name is Josh I was genuinely like wtf

[@rev311mycrown6]

So was it worth it, Josh?

[@alexmagneispokkenchannel7332]

As someone who was introduced to the series later on, I personally never saw the flow of gameplay in Sonic to be a significant part of the series. I always liked it more for the personalities of the characters and environments, and the awesome music. I personally feel that Sonic's heritage affects it negatively in the same way as I see Pac Man's doing to him. The idea that there is this one specific way that all Sonic games should be just because its what the original did so well is somewhat damning in my opinion. SEGA had always been interested in experimentation above all else, until Sonic Generations happened and they found their new comfort zone which Forces all but attempted to stick to like glue. I may be in the minority of the fanbase who feels this way, but I've always wanted to accept what Sonic has done in each game as a brand new experience, not just building on what worked in the past. Maybe that's the easiest way to success, as is the case for most successful game franchises, but its not the only way to achieve it. When you have a series as willing to experiment as Sonic used to be, you end up with experiences unlike any other that you can receive from any other game. Sonic Heroes will always be beloved by those who played it as their first Sonic game, and as a result there are fans who want to see more of the team-based mechanics, even when the classic Sonic fans will always want more of what made the originals so good. So the suggestion I want to raise is for those who like specific games in the series over others, why not take the elements from those specific games and build your own ideas on top of them? Freedom Planet is what you get when fans of classic style Sonic gameplay choose to further the concepts that worked in those games to create their own unique experiences out of love for those specific concepts. In the same way, why not make a game that takes Sonic Heroes' team based gameplay and create a brand new game that takes those mechanics and improves on them to the point that they can provide as satisfying of an experience as Freedom Planet? I don't want to claim that every Sonic game is above criticism, because they certainly are not. But personally, I love to see the multitude of different Sonic games as an idea bucket that can be built on through fan projects and even made into new franchises based on what made each of those Sonic games unique. Yes, they were never EVER perfect, and admittedly in most cases were far from it, but that's what made the series so interesting to me. I can only play so many games in a typical franchise before going "Yep, I know what to expect from the next one" before getting fed up and moving on to something else. With Sonic, I got no such feelings. Sorry for the long comment, but I felt I had to get my feelings on the topic clear here. I kind of wish that classic Sonic fans wouldn't see every new Sonic game to be a failure because of how different they are from the games before it. I doubt I would ever be able to change that attitude though.

[@GeekCritique]

It's awesome to enjoy the series for whatever elements you like about it, but let me elucidate one reason I tend to focus so much on that "flow state" when sharing my perspective. That focus on player-driven spectacle and improvement through replayability is one of the few things that's actually been consistent throughout most of the series. The classics have it, the Adventure games have it, Unleashed/Colors/Generations have it... even broken titles like Sonic 06 and unambitious messes like Sonic Forces can at least gleam it. That's the throughline that's caused me to continue to enjoy Sonic games so much even through all the ups and downs, and all the disparate styles of each era. It's what makes Sonic _feel_ like Sonic, to me.

[@alexmagneispokkenchannel7332]

@@GeekCritique Yes, I understand that. The thing is, none of those games can claim to focus on it as heavily as the classics do. They all have mechanics relative to themselves. I guess the problem is its incredibly hard to really define Sonic as a franchise after we've had so darn many of them. "What is Sonic?" is a question that basically every single Sonic fan can deliver a completely different answer to, which is why I say I prefer to think of them as inspirational experiences rather than tried and perfected games mechanicswise. I would love to see more Sonic fans take what they love about these games and making their own built off those elements. To further expand on my previous comment, the first Sonic game I ever owned was Sonic Adventure, and whilst the game was fun as all heck to play, it was the narrative and character interactions that drove me to want to finish it. Everything from how every character had their own goals but those goals would interlink to create a large cohesive whole to the fact that the events of the past within the game had such a profound impact on the present. Sand Hill is the level I would say best represents this, as the ancient structures of the past literally rise out of the sand around you. Until Sonic Adventure, every game I had played just went "You are this character, go have an adventure" and done little else. Adventure was the first game that made me feel like everything I did was having an impact on the game's world and story. In a sense, it was like playing a Disney movie, which had been some of my favorite experiences leading up to the game's release. The idea that I was the one making sure each character would meet their eventual goals within the game's story, whilst scenes made me laugh, cry and even fear for the safety of the characters in the same way Aladdin or Hercules did. In the same way as its been rough for fans of Classic Sonic expecting more of the same high quality fast paced flowing gameplay that defined their favorites, its been rough for me to see the character personalities get flanderized over time, and the elements of the story being sucked out one after another (the scene in your mock opening where Knuckles goes "What Master Emerald?" particularly hit me hard because of that) and in the end, I've had to accept that that is not the focus of the series moving forward. Because of this, I hope to someday be able to create games that have as strong of an emphasis on story and exploration as Sonic Adventure did, and it will forever be my all-time favorite game. I should make it clear that I'm not saying that Sonic Adventure's story is a masterpiece or anything, or even that great, but maybe I can take what I love from it and use those ideas to create something far better. I can't hate the series for trying to do other things though, but it goes to show if there's one thing all Sonic fans can relate to, its being disappointed to see that the elements we each personally love about the series getting altered or removed in later games. Its an unfortunate element of the series, but its also kind of why I like it, when you allow yourself to be open to the new ideas you can be sure that each new Sonic game might be another Sonic the Hedgehog 2, or Sonic Adventure, to someone else. Sonic is inspiring people to this day, whether we personally like what the series chooses to do next or not.

[@BlazeHeartPanther]

Yea. I mean, if Mario an be a bit different with elements in his game, then why can't Sonic?

[@alexmagneispokkenchannel7332]

@@BlazeHeartPanther Agreed, when Mario makes a bad game everyone just ignores it, Sonic makes a bad game and suddenly he's the internet's bitch.

[@CedroEscarlate]

the problem in forces is exactly that. Characters, envinroments and personalities suck lmao

[@raymanfan9265]

Remember guys in the Sonic fanbase every game is overrated and underrated. If you like Sonic heroes thats fine, just like me.

[@TheOjamaYellow]

Best comment

[@edwardrobinson5470]

i think the adventure games are underrated.

[@apollojustice5338]

Edward Robinson ..............I'm just gonna pretend you didn't say that. Well maybe the first Adventure game.

[@edwardrobinson919]

@@apollojustice5338 well I find Sonic adventure 2 battle unironically underrated. I'll respect you if you disagree.

[@apollojustice5338]

Edward Robinson I do disagree. I found Adventure 2 to be heavily overrated and mediocre. But since you don't go on a rage fest like other SA2 fanboys and actually respects my opinions,I'll respect yours too. Everyone has their own opinion. No one's opinion is wrong or right. Also are you using 2 accounts to comment?

[@JackBz]

Just wanted to say I've watched this vid multiple times and think it really hits the nail on the head. I've never seen it put into words so well how disappointing this game is in the context of what came before it and where sonic's and sonic team's reputations were at the time. It really is the first game they ever made that attempted to be broadly appealing and nostaglic instead of ambitious in any way.

[@aid3n594]

Dude in the classics basically every character ran at the same speed

[@0megaFan]

Josh. Josh I'm scared. This is my childhood, Josh. This is what made me a gamer, Josh. Well, I'll probably still enjoy the video. And I'm ready to defend my game. I'll be back in 45 minutes. Oh my heart. My poor heart... But, I can see where you're coming from. I rewatched the Sonic introspectives to get ready for this season, (and... every other episode) and I think I have a pretty good argument. Sonic Heroes is not a good game. The gameplay is broken, the animations are bad, it has way to many characters, the story is bad, the game holds your hand throughout it, AND I LOVE THIS GAME SO MUCH!!! Sound familiar? I think I can pretty easily compare my love for Sonic Heroes to your love for Sonic R. I can easily admit that this game is bad, but I still love it anyway. I love the clunky and slippery controls! I love the abundance of characters! I love the dumb level design and the gimmicks! I love the stupid animations and diolouge! I love the simple story! I love this game! I think this can all be summed up to pure nostalgia. The thing is, Sonic Heroes wasn't made well, but it was made well enough that when I was old enough to see it how bad it was, I enjoyed it anyway. Compare this to Sonic '06, a game that I liked as a kid and absolutely despise today. I think everything you said about the game is accurate, but I like it for all of that. Rail Canyon is actually one of my favorite levels for some reason. I don't really have much else to say about it. I guess I'll still get mad at it when I slip off a ledge, but I'll still enjoy it because, like I said, it made me a gamer. And nothing will change that fact. I think the only thing I truly don't like about the game is the fact that Tails and Knuckles don't go super. Also, if you can't tell by the name, I may or may not feel slightly insulted by what you said about a certain character. He's my boy Josh. Why must you be so mean to him? Well, now I have to eagerly await your thoughts on what I truly consider one of the worst games ever and my least favorite game ever. See you then. ALSO HOLY CRAP PENNY PARKER!? I DIDN'T KNOW MY TWO FAVORITE SONIC GEEKS HAD TEAMED UP!

[@noonethatspecial]

How did it go?

[@hockeater]

So.... Defense attempts? I'm down for an argument if you still want it.

[@noonethatspecial]

Nah, I was just curious about your thoughts on the video.

[@hockeater]

@@noonethatspecial That was supposed to be to the other guy. Claimed ready to get into an argument on the pro heroes side. I thought it would be an amusing aside at least.

[@0megaFan]

@@hockeater Nostalgia is a real bitch when it comes to reviewing a game.

[@Pdmplaythroughs]

The main issues is the controls and the annoyance of repeating the whole game 4 times !

[@TBrizzle01]

I have fond memories of the game but I only replay it every 5 years it seems. I have a completed file, so when I play it I stick solely to Team Sonic.

[@josephruiz4163]

Man, I love your passion for games.

[@train4292]

That’s quite the bold title there chief.....still interested in how this will play out

[@butcherax]

Every level is a bizarre sequence of floating platforms, suspended miles above the ground.

[@butcherax]

Okay, not Seaside Hill...

[@urmomisurdad5422]

butcherax i was about to mention seaside hill but tbf it has water.

[@BradsGonnaPlay]

butcherax you can replace the water with space and an island chain drop down background and boom, you’re still correct. But yeah, super uninspired game with possibly the best concept even to this day; Adventure gameplay styles in a single player, 3 way control system. ... man, Sonic 3D games since 06 have become a whole different beast that I can’t stand.

[@chuggington4791]

@@butcherax i like to imagine how these games would've come out had they released in 2019. With patches to cover parts of the game etc. imagine how the community could've moulded Heroes and '06 into dream games, and that goes for all sonic games, but these 2 specifically had the best concepts

[@Yakobu90]

Big's voice: Bwe carwe fullwal nawt twow fawll awwf!

[@jinrisul]

As someone who was 6 in 2003, your little section on "The Year of Sonic" REALLY brought me back. I didn't have any game consoles back then, but I always mooched off of friends' or babysitters systems and everyone LOVED Sonic games. I literally used to anticipate saturday to watch Sonic X. I had those McDonalds toys you mentioned too! It really brought me back. I can't remember if I'd ever played Heroes (we used to rent a lot of games for my friend's gamecube, so it's possible) but I'd love to play it now just to experience the hot mess of it all.

[@cwgames87]

At least the music was fine and I kind enjoy sonic heroes. Though getting the chaos emeralds was annoying.

[@TerrorOfTalos]

@Demonic Chara sonic schoolhouse, sonic eraser, sonic 4, sonic the dark brotherhood, sonic boom...yeah not really

[@Danbo22987]

That's like saying "water is wet" when it comes to Sonic games

[@connor___]

I'll be honest, I never really understood the hate for Sonic Heroes. Yes, the controls are ass and the introduction of multi-hit enemies was a curse on the series for years after it's release, but I don't think these aspects spoil the overall package. There's just something I admire about the tone and the character of the game that makes me love it, and that's not even mentioning what's possibly the best soundtrack in the entire series! Especially looking back at what game came after it (I'M LOOKING AT YOU SHADOW), I think that Sonic Heroes is overall a decent game.

[@hockeater]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. No. You can say good things about heroes, but there were better soundtracks before and after it. What I'm Made of is a good song, but most sonic games can manage a good final boss theme, and that's the only fully memorable hit it has.

[@jackaltamer2792]

@@hockeater I mean. You can say it has the best soundtrack too. Saying good things about a game and saying particular positive things about things about it's OST are both completely subjective things. Also I'd say the pure distilled saturday morning cheese of Team Chaotix hits pretty hard too. This Machine is pretty great too.

[@Anko3342]

@@jackaltamer2792 Is it really important to debate about the Soundtrack in a Sonic game, though? Let's be real, the Soundtrack, no matter the game, is almost flawless in every way It's one of the few things this Toxic fanbase can agree on

[@jackaltamer2792]

@@Anko3342 I agree. This just makes it seem more weird to me to argue about someone's favorite ost might be.

[@AmaDominiCanes]

Honestly I liked Shadow the hedgehog but hated heroes

[@BelartWright]

Concept is golden. Hopefully they can make another one one day. If that day comes, I hope that flying formation looks less stupid. Also, I hope they remake Sonic Battle in 3D one day or make a sequel expanding on the 1st.

[@golddust7095]

Honestly fly formation seems to be safe mode, slow and able to keep you from falling down pits

[@kylecampbell565]

Belart Wright Occult Gaming yeah besides remakes of the Adventure duology the thing I want most is a sequel to Heroes (While I feel heroes gameplay is a blast it’s problems were in its structure not something you can fix in a remake without overhauling the entire game)

[@TheJadeFist]

Well we're basically getting Sonic Heroes Racing. So, eh?

[@BelartWright]

@@kylecampbell565 Yeah, I really did enjoy Heroes. Like GC, it was one of the first games I bought with my own money along with Kingdom Hearts and Max Payne 2 on one fine afternoon. I consider them all great purchases, then years later I got the superior Gamecube version of the game and was completely floored by how much better it was than the PS2 version.

[@kylecampbell565]

@@BelartWright It was the first sonic game i owned it was 2006 or early 2007 when my mom got the game for me as a gift for something (it wasnt my birthday we went to best buy for some reason and let me pick it out). My only experience with the series prior were Sonic Riders, Sonic Advance 1, and a few episodes of Sonic X

[@GeneralOlde]

For as clunky as it was, I reached a point in the game where I tried to stay in flight formation for fear of accidentally falling off ledges or mistiming jumps. The crocodile chase at 30:08 was a particularly egregious sequence.

[@jamiedrinkell]

This critique hurt me right in the childhood.

[@NeoMatrix77777]

I am so, SO glad I discovered this channel.

[@sewer56lol]

Quite the tough watch, I don't really know what to say haha so I'll just say this: "Totally Savage!"

[@BlondeBarbarian]

@Old Bird Really? We're still talking about Other M? Jesus, it was one game almost a decade ago, get over it already. Its not like the Metroid series has seen shitty release after shitty release, each one more embarrassingly terrible than the last for over TWENTY YEARS. Also, Other M as a game was actually pretty solid. Things worked the way they were supposed to, the presentation was top notch, no major glitches to speak of etc. Yes the story was cringe, the game was too linear and it played itself way too much (although still not as much as your average Sonic game) but it could have been a LOT worse. It could have been made by Sonic Team!

[@hockeater]

@@BlondeBarbarian There's bad story, and then there's a multi-hour character assassination. Also bad entries have more of an effect when there aren't a lot of them to immunize the fanbase. Like.... remember how much worse the bad sonic games felt when there were like one or two truly terrible ones? Where now you can just numbly wait for the odd mania or generations?

[@BlondeBarbarian]

@@hockeater Oh no I get it, Metroid games are held to a much higher standard than Sonic games these days. And I actually think it's a good thing when a fanbase is willing to criticize a game in their favorite franchise. That (along with not buying it) is how you tell a company not to do that again. I was more replying to this dude saying that what happened to Samus is somehow worse than what happened to Sonic. You call it character assassination but I disagree. People still like and respect Samus. The Metroid series is still highly revered and new installments are still highly anticipated. Sonic? Eh... not so much.

[@hockeater]

@@BlondeBarbarian Oh it may not have been SUCCESSFUL character assassination, but if I was trying to make people hate Samus, I'd have done something like that.

[@BlondeBarbarian]

@@hockeater The Japanese have very different ideas as to what constitutes a "strong female character" and if you look at reviews from Japan, the game fared much better. They clearly thought that showing Samus in this way would bring the series more mainstream success. However, they didn't take into account that in the west (where the Metroid series has historically enjoyed the bulk of what success its had) Samus was always viewed as more of a stoic badass. And to be fair WE projected that onto her based on our own cultural preferences. Nintendo never said what kind of person she was in any of the games, but if you look at any of the official non-game stuff (the manga, Nintendo Power comic, etc.) her portrayal is perfectly consistent with Other M. But of course very few people in the west are familiar with that stuff. They weren't trying to ruin Samus, they were trying to find ways to make the series more successful so that they can justify the incredible development time and cost of continuing to make Metroid games. It was a miscalculation. They made a mistake. And with over ten games and only one dud I think its not unreasonable to suggest that they be forgiven just this once.

[@thesharpdressedshooter6274]

Soooo much effort and heart in your videos. You deserve a lot more subs, likes, and views. I really hope this channel can blow up in popularity. I don’t know how many channels blow up when the content is mainly about critiquing video games, but nonetheless everything about your videos is amazing.

[@GeekCritique]

Thank you so much! :D

[@ganondorj2]

Despite everything the series goes through, there is one thing nobody can deny: Sonic music is pretty much always super great.

[@SuiteLifeofDioBrando]

I think Sonic Heroes mechanic of doing the same levels with varying length, bad bonus stage, and loose controls are the biggest problems with Sonic Heroes. The game was not terrible though since it had some fun stages and great ost. I think it is pretty average game overall.

[@juansariles]

I actually like sonic heroes the game was fun and fast pace

[@ivythay4259]

"fast pace" Fucking liar.

[@thejac-o-lantern1349]

I remember when I was a kid receiving this as a gift from my parents since I was doing well in school and was so happy. Too bad my feelings are the same as TGC.

[@chunkystains8950]

I remember having the same optimistic expectation as you, after playing awhile I was cringing and hated the broken mechanics but didn't want to complain because I was afraid people may have just assumed it was MY fault. Despite this betrayal, Sonic is still my hero! 😭 From age 4-30 I still love him.

[@frostbitegaming3289]

I loved this only for the fact I finally got to play as Amy & Cream!

[@TackyRackyComixNEO]

but didn't Sonic Advance 2 (which allows you to play as both of them) come out before this?

[@frostbitegaming3289]

@@TackyRackyComixNEO I wasn't really a big fan of handheld systems as a kid.

[@justbny9278]

"loOK!That SONIC is carryIng a TORnado!" I'm dead

[@Tokumei-no-B]

Your critiques of Sonic games really helped me look at my own perspectives on these games, much more than reviews usually do. Thanks for putting in so much effort.

[@goharderthanyesterday3935]

At first I hated this review but as it progresses I realized that you’re making very fair and valid points. I guess the kid me didn’t see all of these flaws !

[@frankorefice4115]

I loved Sonic Heroes. It was my first sonic game and for the next four years after this, I was a huge fan.

[@MatthewStevensOrMattDave]

I loved this game. Physics is a little wonky, Team Chaotix was a mistake and the PC port basically never left Australia, but hey, I still love this game. To this day I love it. And I even played it on PS2. Is that nostalgia? Oh god, yes, but it's not like it's all nostalgia. There are parts that still hold up today. Others, not so much.

[@SianaGearz]

What do you mean "pc port never left Australia". I played it, it actually ran very well. Retail purchase in Europe. I must still have the box somewhere.

[@MatthewStevensOrMattDave]

@@SianaGearz I just meant it's hard to find (even at the time, since I'm in South Africa I basically ONLY ever saw the PS2 version as the gamecube flopped HARD here, the PC version might as well have not existed) I did read a thing about it being big in Australia but not in a lot of other places although I can't find where I read that now and honestly it's probably wrong since I've a suspicion that I'm thinking of the PS3 port when it comes to exclusivity. Anyway, TL;DR, you are correct I just meant the PC version is rare and abandoned and that saddens me.

[@IAMTHORTHEMIGHTY]

I don't know why I enjoyed the game. Everything you said, I realise I felt. The game was a CHORE to play. At every moment, it felt like you were fighting the game to play it, and it didn't want you to play. I honestly, don't know why I enjoyed it in even the slightest. Looking back, it wasn't fun to play. Music was awesome though.

[@kieranstark7213]

And the biggest chore to get through in Sonic Heroes besides the most frustrating special stages sunce Sonic 2????? You guessed it, the leader of Team Rose for being head-over-heels over teenage guys to the point where she would be nearly stalker-ish. And ehen they tried to make her tough... It's great to be a badass, but when trying to make a sexist stereotype valiant, that couldn't be any more uncomfortably cheesy.

[@TheSupaman98]

IAMTHORTHEMIGHTY Really? To me, everything this guy said has been either lies or stretching the truth. I played this game when I was younger, and besides the somewhat slippery controls, it still plays amazing today.

[@IAMTHORTHEMIGHTY]

@@TheSupaman98 I tried picking it up, and rather struggled with it. Felt just as messy and sloppy as I remember. :c

[@TheSupaman98]

IAMTHORTHEMIGHTY Well, we’ll just have to agree to disagree then.

[@IAMTHORTHEMIGHTY]

@@TheSupaman98 That's fine with me. Opinions are opinions after all. c:

[@joewii2458]

39:35 Almost immediately? That transformation cutscene is like 45 seconds long!

[@amphicyon4359]

37:37 The slowdown was unintentional? I always thought it was for dramatic effect

[@LinklightGaming]

even as a kid i knew there was something i didnt like about this game, it was off. i didnt mind the repetition when i first played it, i just remember not understanding why tails was so inconsistent. i replayed the game earlier this year, and i realized that i wasn't that bad at the game as a kid, it was the game itself, it was broken, inconsistent. the only reason i had such ease now is cause i knew how to adapt to the garbage mechanics. i'd say aside from all the flaws of this game, it's still decent. and the music, OH MAN THE MUSIC, you really cant go wrong with this soundtrack lol

[@iggnifyre6333]

This being my first console game had one major benefit... I got used to bad controls and every other game became easier as a result XD

[@gornrox7518]

Well they did screw up the soundtrack.They made it for Sonic Heroes.

[@Treyworld]

@@gornrox7518 DAAAAAAAAAMN!!! XD

[@patricktaylor6173]

Oh hi Linklight

[@TheRogueMaverick]

35:55 - Wow, that sounds so close to Mike Pollock, I thought he got in touch with him for the line! Covarr did an AMAZING job then!

[@donovanthefrog138]

Big arm: *starts playing* Me: ...oh no...

[@rumiahakurei]

Correction: Omega is angry because Eggman DIDN'T put him on guard duty for like... 10 years.

[@rumiahakurei]

I backed you on Patreon when I saw the hour long SA2 video end with you saying I could watch this now. I wanted to hear your thoughts on Sonic Heroes and as soon as I saw "I never want to look at Sonic Heroes ever again" I knew you were going to bash it to hell. .... I was kinda hoping you'd find a few more things to like about it than you did, but it ended up being much worse than I expected. I still respect your opinions on it though. I will say I do love Sonic Heroes, through all its cheesy dialogue and all the things wrong with it. I grew up with it as my first exposure to a Sonic game being in 3D after growing up with the Genesis titles. My dad had lent me his SEGA Genesis which I had since kept in my room, and even a SEGA Nomad which I played on car trips (with the dc adapter of all things because he didn't want to pay for the batteries that thing chewed through) along side my Gameboy which I got at a later date. My dad had a ton of old sports titles and Mortal Kombat because that was what he liked, and then a small selection of platformers and more kid friendly games including 3 Disney titles (Lion King, Mickey Mania, and Toy Story) Sonic 1, 2, and 3....D Blast. I know, I missed what everyone calls the best Sonic game ever. Seeing as I never really liked sports titles, I always stuck with Sonic 1 and 2, with me liking Sonic 2 the best and always wanting to play as Tails and for a long time he was my favorite character. I never got introduced to Knuckles before heroes nor the rest of the cast outside ofthe main duo. I was never really good at video games and I doubt I'd be as passionate about them as I am now without Sonic Heroes, heck I remember it taking me ages to even beat the boss of Emerald Hill Zone which is one of the easiest bosses in the series. Games were always fun to me but I always needed help doing anything past a first level. When i first saw Heroes my dad rented it from Blockbuster and on the way home I remember reading the back of the box and being amazed at all the characters that had been introduced, I had no idea that any of them existed outside of this game so I read the manual as well as much as I could despite it being night time with only the few street lamps to allow me to see it. I remember my dad and I popping it into the PS2 and it looked exactly like what I thought one of the Genesis games would look like in 3D. I tried playing as Team Sonic first but I couldn't play past Grand Metropolis, so I ended up switching to Team Rose and playing through the tutorial for a few hours because I couldn't figure out how to homing attack onto the spring before the rocket accel tutorial. eventually we had to take it back but I was absolutely hooked and when my dad ended up buying the game for me, I jumped straight back into what I knew, I absolutely loved the look of Casino Park when I finally got there with a newfound hatred for Amy and how she treats people (my exposure to Sonic X years later would not help her case any). I don't remember feeling any more satisfaction towards this game despite being able to finally play a game and being able to experience it in full, although I was very happy when I finally got to Egg Emperor not that I could beat it. Years have passed and I still fondly look back at Sonic Heroes for helping me learn what it's like to be good at a video game to the point of (nearly) completing it, and yet I've never gone back to play it through fully since that time. I've never had a reliable way to play it because the PS2 is in storage, and my PC doesn't have nearly enough blast processing to make emulation feasible. That said I have played a bit through the PC version and I still enjoy it for what it is, I've gotten to the point where I can satisfyingly speedrun through both Seaside Hill and Ocean Palace, play decently through Grand Metropolis and Power Plant, but after that I tend to stop and maybe I should go back through and complete the game to get a full perspective, but even then I think that the aesthetic choices andgame feel is still pretty much as good as the classic series and I would love if SEGA went back to this more colorful style of visuals. I love the gameplay of Sonic Heroes and I feel that it's just as valid as the classic trillogy, I would be interested in seeing a more polished version of the moves so that it flows better, but I think that the character swapping is fine as it is. I do agree that the controls aren't as tight as they probably should be and I didn't even know about SA2's ledge mechanic until this video. I also agree that the pinball physics are abysmal but at the same time I don't see that big of a difference between that and SA1's pinball physics outside of the fact that you can now influence the direction your characters are going and perhaps it's that, coupled with the wonky collision of the flippers and the fact that you need to not only use the pinball physics to get through the stage but also use them multiple times is a big issue. I actually like the combat in this game despite it being somewhat repetitive, the enemies are fun to plow through and if you do it right you can even take out multiple enemies in one shot, provided your characters are high enough level. The unique bosses in the game are fun as well, as I feel these are a good representation of the classic boss design where you can hit the boss at any time and it'll count rather than the later wait-for-the-boss-to-show-its-weak-point boss design that we see all the time now even in games that aren't Sonic. I think if the physics were better, the special stages would be an absolute blast to play and I think it's been realised partly in Generations 3DS. I don't think you should have to play through all the stories in order to get to the final boss *and* get all the chaos emeralds, one or the other would've sufficed. I will say I only played up until Grand Metropolis with Team Chaotix and that wasn't due to the fact that I wasn't willing to defeat all the enemies, it's because when I DID try, I couldn't find the last one and ended up going back through the level 3 times just to try and find it but I never did. I don't know how much I can say on the story as I'm not a story writing professional, I think it's fine for a Sonic game but I don't expect an epic like Final Fantasy or Chrono Trigger. I like the character interaction and the personality of everyone shines through perfectly fine. Perhaps having the Sonic Adventures come before this sets expectations a bit higher considering there's more of a plot there to be pulled into even if they're not told as well as they could've been. Perhaps my entire book of a response has been invalidated by the fact that I don't have a fresh perspective on the game nor have I really played the game entirely through. But I thought I'd at least try to provide the backstory of what led to me playing this game and the reasons why I like it.

[@Acheo_]

That last tangent you made was a strawberry on top of the icing on the cake. All the tweets you made that led up to this got me hyped for this, and I wasn’t at all disappointed. I already thought this game left a lot to be desired, so I was really surprised in seeing how many aspects this game failed that I didn’t even realize. But I guess 13 years of not playing it does do that to a person. When first I played this game, I must have been 5 years old. The game was probably a few months old at the time, since I was too young to even know how to know when a game would release, or even what games would be released at all. I played it for probably longer than I’d like to admit, but combining a child’s abilities with those inconsistent controls kept me from getting that far. I don’t even remember being mad at it, because I think Sonic Adventure (DX...) had wrongly taught me that it was the player’s job not to break the game. But eventually, even I was tired of seeing the characters stupidly raise their arms like they’re heavily engaged in falling, as they plummeted down a pit for around 5 seconds after death was obvious. So, whenever I wanted to play a Sonic game again, I just went back to playing SA2 Battle, a game I mostly had far more control of the characters in (even if I was still pretty bad at it at the time). After that, though, aside from maybe one day of curiosity a few years back, I don’t think I’ve touched Heroes since. And this went on for longer than I thought. I don’t know, I see a lot of people post their stories with games down here in the comments, and I know you encourage it, so I thought I’d share what inconsequentially little (I thought before writing this) I had of mine.

[@JayTheGoatLord552]

Sonic heroes was my very first sonic game i played as a kid and got me into the series as a whole As repetitive as the gameplay was it always had that charm and cheeziness which never failed to make me smile and still has that effect even today

[@byg4299]

It really says a lot about the quality of TGC that this whole video thrashs on Sonic Heroes, a game that I grew up with and the game that introduced me to Sonic, and yet I still find this video hilarious to watch. What I always like about your videos is that you always do a good job of explaining your own personal thoughts, history and biases. It's such that even if I disagree with your assessment, I'm always to able understand how you came to that conclusion and you're also always open to different perspectives.

[@hobbyboundcat6713]

Mystic mansion made me ragequit. The end of the level has an assanine kart section that drains lives because they give you no reaction time so you die very easily. Then you have to do an assanine flight section with the bad controls. And guess what if you run out of lives you have to restart the entire. 20 minute. Level. Again and again. The absolute worst level I've ever played in a platformer EVER.

[@krxxc.kk6]

I do highly disagree but, I did enjoy the video.

[@GeekCritique]

There are few compliments higher than that one. Thank you!

[@krxxc.kk6]

​@@GeekCritiqueI take it back , I replayed heroes last week and it was not a great experience

[@Mantekilla22]

Tcg thank you so much for making these longer videos they are my favorite! Quality content I swear!

[@macedawgy]

I grew up with this game and loved it to death

[@Demonskunk]

They couldn't even make hyper knuckles and turbo tails.

[@nitinanku]

Min Lungelow There’s no such thing as turbo tails except in the comics

[@kieranstark7213]

Nor could they make Metal Tails and Metal Knuckles to accompany Metal Sonic (whom The Geek Critique should have appreciated, yet I get why he's not really fan of of that character, but at least he didn't treat him like garbage like Shadsilvson11, who was otherwise a KZbinr worth following).

[@nitinanku]

Ursula Major No, that’s super tails, tails can only go super in S3K and Mania

[@lmao2302]

@@nitinanku It's not really going super when it needs the super emeralds on top of the chaos emeralds.

[@nitinanku]

When the FBI finds your google searches. Well it was still called super tails

[@ozguy5196]

"He met the love of his life. I got Sonic Heroes." LOL

[@iamdavid3498]

Personally Sonic Heroes has some of my favorite level designs ever. Some of the funnest levels in the entire series. Sure the controls were bad, but fun to play through regardless.

[@jonnysac77]

Ye it has a lot of fun stages, main thing wrong with the game is how awful the controls are

[@shingen681]

y'know, of all the videos you've made about sonic, i'm honestly most interested to see a redux on this one - i remember you mentioning that you replayed heroes back in '22 and actually saw it in a better light, so seeing what changed in between the last 5 years would be a great watch imo

[@enchilad6799]

Ok, so this is like one of my favorite video games of all time, so let's start with the things I agree with. First, the controls take alot of getting used to, second some of the mechanics do get tiring such as the pinball sections, and most importantly, third, playing the same game 4 times is borderline terrible. But I love this game so much, it was one of my first 3D Sonic games and I have a lot of Nostalgia for it. The aesthetics and visuals of the levels are gorgeous, the soundtrack is amazing, the writing and voice acting is probably my favorite in the series (along with the Adventure 2 and Unleashed.) Unlike the Adventure games, which as much as I love their stories took themselves a bit too serious at times, Heroes seemed a lot more correct in it's tone. It was light hearted, but knew when to take serious moments seriously, which is a problem I have with games starting with Colors onward. In those games, when things get dire, Sonic's reaction is never appropriate. He usually just spouts a badly written one liner. Also, the common complaint of stages taking too long never bothered me. Much like with other Sonic games, I go through multiple playthroughs, so most stages only last 4-6 minutes (with Team Sonic, Team Rose was always too short for my liking.) Also, this one is just me, but the characters "never shutting up" never bothered me either. If anything, I love the banter the characters have with eachother, it adds so much charm and personality to the game, extenuated by how perfect the voice cast is (with maybe the exception of Tails.) While I can see where you're coming from, I don't think this game "stopped the franchise's glory days." Infact, from what I've heard, this game actually sold really well and received mostly positive reviews from critics, and I know plenty of fans who love this game. Also most of the bugs you experienced are only present in the PC version. Gamecube version is the most polished version, PC and Xbox versions aren't as polished, and the PS2 version is basically broken.

[@2bean166]

Nah, Sonic Heroes received mostly mixed/average reception. I still dig this game despite the roast-fest

[@enchilad6799]

@@2bean166 Average ratings still doesn't kill a franchise, so my point still stands.

[@2bean166]

@@enchilad6799 No, his point is that Sonic Heroes is the starting point as the downfall of the series -- critically. Mixed to average reviews is the worst fate a video game can ever endure.

[@jackaltamer2792]

@@2bean166 How is a mixed opinion worse than being downright hated? Maybe in a series where almost every game is know for being stellar all around but there are Sonic games with far worse fates than Heroes.

[@2bean166]

@@jackaltamer2792 Because being mediocre means the game is neither good or bad -- just boring or forgettable. A game should never be boring or forgettable. At least a game like '06, that's depised amongst fans, can gain attraction from the public (good publicity comes in all shapes and sizes), whereas a game like Heroes would just not be talked about at all, making it underappreciated and prone to undisputed hate should one ever bring it up.

[@TheOneAndOnLEE.]

This is my critique of Sonic Heroes. Let me start at the beginning. When the Sega Genesis first came out in America, I was 3 years old. I didn't get mine until a couple years later. I got the Sonic the Hedgehog 2 Edition. It came with 2 controllers, and Sonic 2. This was essentially the first video game I ever played. I immediately fell in love, and of course, I had to get the original Sonic the Hedgehog, as well as the soon-to-follow Sonic the Hedgehog 3/Sonic and Knuckles. I also eventually picked up Sonic Spinball. These inevitably became my favorite games, even though I had a slew of other games for my shiny new Genesis console. I never played Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine, or Sonic 3D Blast. Fast forward a few years. In the late 90s, I was given a choice: either a Sega Dreamcast, or a PS2. Because of all the hype, and negotiating with my little sister, we eventually settled on the PS2. We got gems such as Kingdom Hearts, Grand Theft Auto III, etc., and we were definitely happy with our choice. But a little while later, I ended up getting a Gamecube, and by this time, Sonic Adventure 2 Battle had just been released, and all of the fond memories of Sonic came rushing back to me, so of course, I had to get it. I absolutely LOVED that game. To this day, it is one of my favorite games of all time. I soon after decided to track down a Sega Dreamcast, only to play the original Sonic Adventure. I ended up buying one off of a friend, and later finding a copy of Sonic Adventure in a local game store. I was not disappointed. The Sonic Adventure series was exactly what I had always wanted Sonic the Hedgehog to be. Of course, not long after this, Sonic Adventure DX would be released for the Gamecube, meaning tracking down a Dreamcast just to play SA1 was essentially pointless, but nonetheless I had no regrets (I bought DX for the Gamecube too, just saying). At this point I had only one desire from Sega, and I know it is a cliche at this point but I don't fucking care. I wanted one thing. One thing that I still want to this day. SONIC ADVENTURE 3!!!!! And now to the actual criticism part. When Sonic Heroes was first announced, I thought "This is it, this is the game I have been waiting for." It has Sonic and friends, it has the Chaotix, it has Shadow who is supposed to be dead but at this point why question it. Oh, and it has four different story modes ultimately culminating in a final story where Metal Sonic returns and seeks vengeance. I was HYPED! But this hype was short lived... When I loaded up the game for the first time, I vividly remember thinking, "Man, this theme music is cheeseball." But you know what? I didn't care. I didn't let those first few minutes skew my perception of a potentially great game. ...Then I played it. The gameplay, as you stated multiple times, left a LOT to be desired. I agree that having a seamless transition between characters would have been great. Playing as all three of these classic characters at once would have felt SO much better if you could control them the way you saw fit, as opposed to arbitrarily switching between the three of them countless times throughout every single stage. I absolutely hated that. In addition to that, I also agree with the point you made about playing essentially the same story 4 times. It got stale. And I will admit...I played through all of them. I didn't cheat, I played through all four stories plus the final story legitimately. It took weeks. And by the time I got to the end, I was marginally satisfied. I actually really liked the ending. Even if it wasn't explained as much as I would have liked it to be, I REALLY liked all four groups teaming up to fight a suped up Metal Sonic Godzilla monster. It gave me a lot of satisfaction, even if the final battle was stupidly easy. I will also agree that the Special Stages were underwhelming, but to be honest, I didn't hate them. They seemed like they took a lot of influence from Sonic the Hedgehog 2's special stages, and since that was the first video game I ever played, I didn't mind something that faintly reminded me of it. One thing I have to disagree with you about is the music. As stupid and campy as the main theme of the game (and Team Rose's theme) was, the rest of the music was, in my opinion, epic! Team Dark's theme "This Machine" was literally on my iPod for years. I loved that song so much I literally couldn't stop listening to it. Team Chaotix theme (ahem) "Team Chaotix", got me pumped up and made me smile every single time I heard it. I still like some of the music to this day, but nothing, and I mean NOTHING, compares to the final boss music, "What I'm Made Of" by Crush 40. These guys never disappoint. "Live and Learn" from Sonic Adventure 2 may be the greatest video game track of all time (in my opinion). I never thought I would hear something that would top it, and then the same band comes out with an epic face melting rock masterpiece that fits perfectly with the boss fight. So even though this may be an unpopular opinion, the epic final boss fight combined with the equally epic Crush 40 music playing over top of it, made up for an overall mediocre game experience. So yea, fight me. Anyway, I give this game a very solid "meh..". I loved parts of it, I hated parts of it, but overall, nothing ever stopped me from wanting to finish it, and at the end of the day, that is *probably* all that matters to a game developer. It wasn't SA3, but I have a deep gut feeling that it is the closest I am ever going to get. Anyway if you read this whole goofy comment to the end, you have my thanks.

[@bio826]

You actually said what i was trying to say, but better, good comment!

[@Heyamoto]

Thanks for that thoughtful review. Heroes was actually my favorite sonic game (in the 3D era, that is) and so it’s always been a surprise to me that others dislike this one. I understand the areas that tend to be disliked, but the game itself isn’t as bad as what others say. To each their own of course, but it’s nice to hear something in defense

[@Ronnie06spartan]

Another great video. Glad to see you doing your Sonic reviews again. I had seen all your other Sonic reviews years ago. Love your channel

[@MaxMarriner]

As a child of the Adventure Era, these two recent videos have hit me pretty hard. Sonic Heroes was my fourth console game, and after Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, I was excited to join up with the gang and see how their intertwining stories would follow. Most importantly, I had to know about Shadow - following his heroic sacrifice, I needed to know how he came back and, more importantly, how Sonic and the gang would react to his return. I got a vague explanation at the end of Team Dark's campaign, but Sonic... barely showed any surprise. He was like "hey, he's back!" instead of "excuse me, WHAT? he's BACK?!?" It kind of dulled Adventure 2's ending, in a way only Sonic Team could pull off - quickly and disappointingly. Music is still absolutely phenomenal, though.

[@pyrrhickong]

I will admit, Sonic Heroes was absolutely my most wanted and hyped game at the time of its release. I was so ready for it to be good, instantly took the Chaotix because they looked cool... and my friends and I spent about two and a half hours getting bored in Metropolis looking for robots to kill. Kinda gave me some patience for when Shadow would pull the same kind of thing! But yeah I... only ever beat Team Rose's story, which probably gave me an appreciation for Big the Cat that lasts to this day because he's just blatantly the best character in the game. This game disillusioned me to the idea that Sonic was evergreen like Mario had been for me, and then Riders came out and wasn't fun until you dug deeper in (I never did) and I just lost faith in the guy, assuming that the Adventure games were all the good he'd ever be able to bring me. That's... kind of something that never recovered until Generations, I'm sad to say. While I do feel this was a little more rant-y than your usual bits of critique, I do appreciate all of the concessions you make; the analysis as to why someone doesn't like something is always far more interesting to me than the fact that they don't like something, especially when it's said in more words than "the physics suck" or something. I, too, am a large fan of the casino aesthetic, LOVED BINGO Highway's look and the idea of getting a bingo and the like when I first played it, HATED the pinball physics, and found slogging through shielded enemies just the absolute worst thing (why can Knuckles destroy these ancient stone doors but not this wimpy cartoon riot shield?). Rail grinding was actually a big favorite of mine in SA2, and Rail Canyon decided to kill that dead. Actually loved the aesthetic and music of Frog Forest and how it potentially furthered the lore of Froggy and the Mystic Ruins... kinda wrecked by terrible hit detection, All of the frustrations I felt were echoed here, and I just... kinda feel awful knowing how much deeper your connection with both Sonic and Sega really was compared to my love affair with the Adventure titles and "yeah Mean Bean Machine's pretty good". Also your bgm choices remain excellent. May Beaver Bother never die. Oh and the 3D Blast selection was so good - Spring Stadium fit the mood so well, and any time I get to hear Panic Puppet is a treat. This felt cathartic to watch, and I hope it felt that way to make. I need more videos that aren't angry about games, but can still dislike and deconstruct them.

[@hugoflores1093]

i think Casino Park is awful but Bingo Highway is Perfection, this game sure is divised

[@islandboy9381]

When I got Sonic Heroes as a kid I was in love with playing Team Sonic until I got to Rail Canyon which killed all of my flow. Then Frog forest revitalized me a bit, only for the next levels to kill the flow again until Egg Fleet and then died again at Final Fortress. I never bothered with the other teams because Team Rose was too short and boring while Team Dark was too long and mostly tedious instead of challenging. Team Chaotix I gave up after the first mission. So yea even when I was an impressionable youngster, I still found Sonic Heroes to be a very mixed experience, love the concept, game structure and setting, but the final product we got at the end was very obviously a rushed job, which is not surprising because Izuka told in an interview that at one point during development of the game he was the ONLY level designer left because the other person got sick and had to crunch it in order to make it to the deadline. So yea Sonic heroes can be great but also garbage at the same time, it's really mixed, but that also means it's the 3D Sonic game with the biggest potential for improvement. There I barfed my opinion out, please excuse my mess of words :V

[@soulsparx]

ookay i love your reviews but your jokes tend to be hit or miss for me but that "The gameplay is BROKEN. Into three distinct playstyles" really got me, full props there

[@TCGJAyandGian131]

As someone who acknowledges each and every glaring flaw in Sonic Heroes, I still love the game. It is still very fun to me, regardless of how much I suck at it. I say that Sega remake Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, and Sonic '06 and make a collection out of it, or at least make a collection of the more infamous Sonic titles, fix up the rough patches, and make a resale out of them and regain their reputation or at the very least get praise for fixing the unfixable.

[@MicahBuzanANIMATION]

Yay! Always excited when I see a new one of these from you :)

[@SkaiaMechanic]

...What goes up - must come down But why's this game run to the ground? A whole franchise spinning upside down The hopes all crash without a sound! It stepped onto SA2's stage The crowd all cheered but soon turned away They saw this whole mess of a game Can you believe we put our dreams on you? Watch us - waste the night away Four times - the same game How are - we supposed to complete This special stage! Sonic Heroes Sonic Heroes This story makes no sense Were there writers for this game? Sonic Heroes Sonic Heroes These characters seem younger How did they de-age? ======= I don't like Casino stages in regular Sonic games, but I absolutely HATED them in this game. But I was the only one of my friends to actually complete all the stories AND all the special stages, an accomplishment considering the controls, how easy it is to lose that key, and how difficult some of the later bonus stages were. And I DON'T EVEN GET TO SEE SUPER TAILS??????? It sounds stupid, but that angered me more than anything else in the game back then. I finished the game and never thought kindly on it again. (But I still love that final boss music "What I'm Made Of" - I've always been a sucker for 3D Sonic Vocal Music.)

[@CNightmare072]

Huh. Funnily enough the only thing I still like about this game is “This Machine”

[@hugoflores1093]

Tee Lopes has competence

[@JIreland1992]

You got this out fast dude. Well faster than usual anyway.

[@Blitzgen1]

i remember playing this as a kid as well bought it 4 days before my birthday, i remember my biggest issue was how short it was in like 2 - 3 days it was beaten to 100%, and because as you mentioned the 4x play thoughts at slightly different difficulties really didn't have the desire to replay it when it was so short to begin with. But i do remember what there was of the level was fun at the time but i also remember some other games being what seemed like perfect that i go to look back at now and it is a half buggy mess

[@Nelsonic92]

Concordo com tudo o que foi dito no vídeo, foi exatamente aquilo que eu senti em relação ao Heroes após ter acompanhado os dois Adventures anteriormente. Greetings from Brazil O/