South Korea’s Fertility Rate Hits 0.68: What Next?

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South Korea's record-low birth rates signal a fertility crisis with implications for depopulation and national security. Despite longstanding government efforts, the situation persists, offering insights into broader fertility challenges.
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0:00 Intro
1:39 The 2 Reasons South Korea is Struggling
2:07 Housing
5:25 South Korea’s Gender Divide
7:17 General Lessons
7:42 Sponsor

[@Mirakolis]

East Asian countries doing a speedrun of who can drop their birthrate the fastest right now

[@fly463]

South Korea - Nah I'd win

[@nntflow7058]

Japan, South and North Korea + Taiwan are few of the most populated area in the world. Their density per km are one of the highest in the world. This is not including inhabitable areas such as tall mountainous range which are prominent in all 4 countries.

[@JustAnotherAccount8]

It's happening all over the world. a good portion of countries in Europe are at the same decline as japan

[@bigbarry8343]

@@nntflow7058 Agree

[@johnl.7754]

East Asian Countries are Hares (as in tortoise and the hare) great economic growth but not sustainable over long periods of time

[@command_unit7792]

North Korea in a few years:"Its Free real estate!"

[@Mirakolis]

Kim Jong Un recently begged his people to have more children, while it might not be as severe as in South Korea, they‘re still moving into the same direction

[@houseplant1016]

​@@Mirakolis So the weak game of Korean men is just genetical

[@fly463]

​@@Mirakoliswhat if he wanted their people to have 3-4 kids so North Korea could outnumber South Korea significantly more quickly.

[@Alex-pt6pu]

​@@houseplant1016전혀 아닙니다. 북한은 단지 공산주의 독재 때문에 빈곤 문제가 있는 것 뿐이지만 여기 한국에서는 영상에서 언급된 내용 때문입니다

[@guss77]

​@@houseplant1016 It's not genetical - it's social. SK is ahead of the curve in all kinds of social changes, and whatever happens there will eventually happen everywhere.

[@rake483]

Who would have thunk it? Working 60h a week for low wages leaves you with no time or money to start a family.

[@disalazarg]

Eh, not really. Richer people are less likely to have children than the poors, and most African countries have fertility rates above 5 while much of their population is earning less than $20 a week.

[@DivinesLegacy]

Bs

[@sadasasdas8467]

The standard work week is 40 hours full time + 12 hours over time.. Try Harder

[@the80386]

@@sadasasdas8467 many companies don't follow the 'standard' procedure. there's an unwritten rule to punch out your attendance card at the official time but still stay at work for several more hours. south korea is not the only country that does it, I saw this first-hand working as a foreign intern in malaysia.

[@user-lb8bg6kj9m]

It's what corporations are trying to get govts to implement around the world so people can be exploited. Happening in Canada where a flood of immigration is being used to suppress wages of workers and housing supply is kept low to maximize mortgage debt all to keep people enslaved in debt for life. A disastrous outcome for any society!

[@19katherine1213]

The only reason we don’t call SK a hellish dystopian country is because there’s an even more hellish dystopian country right above it

[@meteorknight999]

Not really you are mistaking hellish country with hellish brutal person by copium. Kims the problem even then it didnt decrease NK birthrate, SK has deeper problem

[@captainvanisher988]

South Korea is neither hellish nor dystopian lol. It's far better than most countries to live in nowadays. It's also better than 99.9% of all societies in human history when it comes to quality of life.

[@snoopysnoops007]

But North Korean birth rates are still high... You may call NK a dystopia but it can sustain itself whereas South Korea cannot sustain itself at all

[@animussohasunow5569]

​@@captainvanisher988 It might not be an dystopian but its hard not to mark it as one especially when its birth rate is crumbling at the pace towards extinction + an economy which is designed to grow at the expense of many (where the many are forced into this narrow rat race on whether who can come out on top) without any guarantee that the quality of life they seek will even occur.

[@captainvanisher988]

@@animussohasunow5569 That's feminism. Ig we call feminist sh*tholes as dystopian nowadays...

[@Kris_96]

Long working hours. Low wages. High costs. No chance of ever owning a house. 0 work-life balance without a child, let alone with one. Layoffs left right and center. Hard if not impossible to get a job even with experience. Life is stressful as is already. Low standards of life. Nothing is family friendly - work, life, schools etc. A lot of the institutions still have the same mentality of - man works, woman stays at home, and it just doesn't fit how people want to live now.

[@HShango]

Exactly

[@Michael-ss7pc]

You didn't mention thr biggest reason. Womens insane standards.

[@phr3ui559]

that mentality is good though. Women going to work is the reason for this

[@JokeShinet]

That's true, for some reasons, some HK people I know all of that is a good thing to strive for

[@cummerou1]

​@@phr3ui559 I thought it was unregulated capitalism causing extremely low wages and high house prices, not womens rights, silly me. Can you explain why South Korea has 1/3 the fertility rate of somewhere like Denmark where its extremely common for the woman to work?

[@sebastiangruenfeld141]

South Korea is an IRL cyberpunk dystopia that lots of Koreans are trying to escape by moving to the West.

[@dorianodet8064]

Funny you said it. When I explained Cyberpunk lore to a friend of mine that lived in South Korea, he was like "Ok, so basically South Korea with cyborgs"

[@captainvanisher988]

Not really. The emigration rate out of South Korea is very low compared to Western nations.

[@meteorknight999]

That wont help going west i.e. US Canada themselves are cyberpunk dystopia now. Dont tell me you didnt see news last 2 months, illegel crowd storming border,bridge collapse,new york looting

[@APDM_OSINT]

They are not migrating out. But South Korea is the closest to the definition to the Cyberpunk fiction = high tech, low life. High-tech, overworked, living in the only megacity, high suicide rate, low quality of life (yes the quality is good but expensive), so no affordable good life, human enhancement (plastic surgery 1 in 3 people). Even Japan, the so-called cyberpunk nation, does not even close the the dangerous dystopia level

[@zurielsss]

Hong Kong: hey that’s my role !

[@ColdNavigator]

I sort of wondered why Korean manhwa depict companies as these hellholes with petty politics, overt abuse, and blatant sexual harassment. Now I realize Koreans were just writing about what was familiar to them.

[@ElectrostatiCrow]

Don't forget the wealth gap and financial struggles of the majn character.

[@MuhammadAli-255]

Same thing with mangas.

[@user-qi7o0dr54h8rq]

4b movement

[@Jane_Doe...3]

I was also wondering like why all these manhwa artists keep milking the topic of "bullying" among teachers and students, almost in every manhwa

[@Karznax]

The sexual harrassment isn’t really applicable in todays standards because there are literally tens of thousands of cases of women falsely accusing men for sexual assault to extort money. And even if a man proves his innocence, his social life, career, and reputation would be doomed. This is why men nowadays in korea don’t help women in public, or even look in their general direction, because there have been so many cases of these false accusations used as a weapon to either extort money or ruin a mans life. This actually is also one of the main reason why people are getting married less and less, and why a lot of korean men are now turning towards international marriages.

[@newcarpathia9422]

I have a lot of students from South Korea and they all say the same thing. You're expected to give your life over to whichever chaebol you work for. Your home family doesn't matter. Until that system is overhauled, nothing will change.

[@backintimealwyn5736]

it seems like in east asia it's above all the rest a problem of cultural gap between traditional values and western way of life. it seems unsolvable. And it sounds like they are ready to do anything but helping women in any way.

[@BoaConstrictor126]

America is no different

[@therobro5089]

What this has been the case since the beginning! You work for the tribe until you die, you work for the village until you die, you work for the King until you die, you work for standrard oil until you die retirement is a recent phenomenon only implemented because the post WW2 economic miracle that happened everywhere but that juice is running out

[@yonggeun4222]

@@backintimealwyn5736can koreans have babies, i do NOT want to hear EXCUSES

[@backintimealwyn5736]

@@yonggeun4222 What do you mean by excuses? We're trying to find an explanation and maybe fix it. I think it sucks that the korean people is disapearing.

[@tanzeelahmadhashmi6209]

Real estate inflation is probably the worst hand done to young generation across developed nations

[@yookalaylee2289]

You're 100% correct. Its the root of so many other issues in society. How could you possibly think about any other facet of life when you can't own a place to live?

[@thomasgrabkowski8283]

Not just developed countries. In developing countries, for housing outside slums, there is real estate inflation too

[@SASMADBRUV7]

This is the biggest thing I'm worried about with the future. There isn't actually an incentive for house prices to decrease because current home owners and funds which include pensions are invested in house prices being high. So people don't actually want to address the root issue of not building enough homes since they'll be negatively effects

[@chefnyc]

I hope there won’t be enough young people to buy those houses when the older people retire and sell theirs to move to FL.

[@VVayVVard]

It's not inflation since the quality of property has improved. Newer houses have better features, like Internet connectivity or healthier/cleaner materials (e.g no asbestos) which tend to add costs. I'd much rather own a new house now than a new house in 1950.

[@themassagechair6785]

Might it not also be worth mentioning that South Koreans work around 50% longer hours than, for example, the Scandinavian countries? With their work culture also strongly encouraging spending free time with co-workers, it doesn't leave much time for baby-making.

[@WhichDoctor1]

Except those Scandinavian countries with their healthy work life balance also have below replacement birthrates at around 1.5 per woman. Not as bad as korea sure, but still falling population. So it isnt really a solution

[@only_fair23]

The scandi countries also have very poor fertility rates, only higher than SK because of immigration. The simple fact is, people in developed countries just don't want kids because they don't provide anything anymore. Israel is the only developed country with a decent fertility rate and it's only cause of religion

[@armonwp]

Scandinavians are in the same demographic winter. The only reason that their birthrate doesn't look as bad is all the foreigners they've imported and are forced to support.

[@behavedave]

I'm guessing it's a cultural shift in all developed countries bleeding out from the cities, if emphasis is on working then less babies. Spending all your free time working certainly sounds out of whack and it drives down wages. It could lead to mass emigration if that becomes a cultural norm.

[@themassagechair6785]

While the correlation between level of development and fertility is likely the biggest issue, there can be more than 1 reason for a problem. From what I can gather, both from research in Korea and Scandinavia, there is also a significant correlation between working hours and low fertility within a population group. Reasonable working hours won't solve the problem or even bring them in line with the rest of the developed world. But it is a very reasonable step in the right direction, if your goal is to solve the fertility crisis. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8640650/ www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10355408/ ifstudies.org/ifs-admin/resources/reports/ifs-workismreport-final-031721.pdf

[@MrLePov]

I lived in South Korea for a while, and the focus on education and having a good career are MASSIVE. Those affect fertility rates in general, and also explain why so many people want to live in Seoul, because obviously most of the better jobs are there.

[@magicxsquare_]

Usually societies collapse when too many people are chasing elite jobs. It’s a sign of the troubles affecting most modernized countries.

[@user-uf4rx5ih3v]

@@magicxsquare_ Which society in recorded history has collapsed because people wanted "elite" jobs? Because I can't think of a single example on top of my head.

[@useodyseeorbitchute9450]

@@user-uf4rx5ih3v Well, in late days ancient Rome it took form of multiple candidates for job of the emperor with even though it was related to reduced life expectancy.

[@dererik9070]

Yes but it still doesnt explain it alone when coutries like Denmark have 3x the fertility rate

[@MrLePov]

@dererik9070 oh yeah for sure, I never meant to imply it was the sole reason, or even the main reason really, just an observation from my time over there. 🙂

[@Randomstuffs261]

Honestly, I blame babies, they are way too slow and expensive to develop

[@randomaccount53793]

I agree, they promised to update them to have additional cognitive function so they can finish school at 10 and start working at 12. Very disappointed we still have to wait to 20-30 before they leave home.

[@PeterSedesse]

just to point out chickens are fully independent by about 12 weeks old... but when I dropped off my 12 week old baby in the park and left it there overnight, people were screaming at me.

[@rabbithazel3034]

@@randomaccount53793 just need a new firmware

[@nasseq]

@@PeterSedesse With CRISPR, our babies will becomes fully independent by 12 weeks, i assure

[@ryboi1337]

​@nasseq dont forget the brain implants. They will pop out the womb with phd levels of knowledge 😂

[@natnaelabate3635]

literally would rather die out than de-commodify housing

[@lif6737]

It keeps the votes coming in until there's no one left to vote

[@bertyp2278]

It's about de-commodifying the labor market. Particularly for women

[@thomasgrabkowski8283]

Why would they do it when the politicians themselves are wealthy property owners who benefit from high property prices

[@lame6810]

Housing has always been a commodity. de-commodifying housing is the reason they have this problem cause capital-holders investing in housing developments gets discouraged, as the government wants them to invest in the stock market instead.

[@evilds3261]

@@thomasgrabkowski8283 Babies should become commodities and then governments must pay parents millions of dollars to produce even one child. After all, those who own the means of production own the product itself and if they wish to purchase it to have future taxpayers and workers - they must invest loads of money.

[@alexemann]

In addition, there is a medical crisis happening right now. There is a doctors strike happening, and most new doctors are going into low-risk, high-reward practices like dermatology and plastic surgery. Pediatrics in particular has very few new doctors in training. So even if we do have children here in Korea, its tough to find a doctor to care for them.

[@tomlxyz]

Isn't the "new doctors hi into low risk high reward practice" the rhetorics used by existing doctors who oppose increasing the amount of newly admitted students to meds schools?

[@drjordan5706]

@@tomlxyz Depends from country to country. There are countries where this problem is real because doctors in high-risk practice are not properly protected by the law

[@gagamba9198]

_'low-risk, high-reward practices like dermatology and plastic surgery.'_ Unlike most other medical specialities, those are not covered by the national health insurance plan generally because they're medically unnecessary procedures. This means that doctors may charge market rates and not those determined by the national health plan. Trade-offs.

[@itaipee]

Well. Medical crisis in theory can help solve the fertility crisis. It is a bit dark , but, If in the next few years the older people are threaded poorly , the burden on the younger generation would be losen

[@thearpox7873]

@@gagamba9198 Hmmm, a nice welfare state or not going extinct. Trade-offs.

[@itryen7632]

When you ask your parents for a puppy and they say no, so then decades later when they ask you for a grandson you hit em with this

[@ivani3237]

what to do if i didn't want a puppy as a child??

[@PeruvianPotato]

Peak millennial humor 😐

[@J_X999]

As a young man with a girlfriend (soon to be wife), we have just moved into an actual house which is tiny and was EXTREMELY expensive. If houses were as cheap as they were a couple generations ago, I'd definitely be a husband, and most likely a father. The longer it takes to save up for housing, the later people will get married. The later people get married, the fewer children they'll probably have.

[@MrBurnsExcellent]

Amen to that

[@gagamba9198]

_'If houses were as cheap as they were a couple generations ago, I'd definitely be a husband, and most likely a father.'_ If you're Korean you'd know that a couple of generations ago it was practically impossible to get a mortgage from a bank. In fact, pre-economic meltdown many large employers lent the money to the employees, but with the end of lifetime employment that reduced a lot. Basically people relied on family members (including extended) to assist with a home's purchase. For a highly desirable male, the (equally wealthy) woman's family would buy the marital home - the three-keys era.

[@bigbarry8343]

@@gagamba9198 Easy availability of mortgage caused house prices skyrocket from 1x single salary to 10x joint salary. There is nothing wrong with borrowing small amounts from family, but everything wrong with borrowing huge amounts with lifetime of interest repayments.

[@thearpox7873]

@@gagamba9198 Sounds like generational trauma.

[@freedombro6502]

​@@gagamba9198he might be talking about in the west . In the 1990's things were still affordable

[@SupGaillac]

I wouldn't call it better "economic prospect" but rather, better "quality of life". Which is something often forgotten in the most competitiveness-based economies.

[@solarmaru49]

Most liberal Anglo Saxon nations also forget that South Korea has mandatory military service for men. 2-3 years. That’s 2-3 years less of your life in something that you can’t choose, whilst there have been a spate of “feminist” social media videos making fun of that fact and that they are able to make a 2-3 year head start in their careers. You can see where the pain and resentment of Korean males comes from.

[@matthewbarabas3052]

@@solarmaru49 blame north korea for that.

[@SaruyamaPL]

Why do Africans have such high fertility rates then?

[@MB-co6qj]

​@@matthewbarabas3052no need for women to not have military duty.. #feministsyousay?

[@ronben-ezer8373]

​@@solarmaru49 I don't think the lost 2-3 years is the issue. Israel also has a similarly lengthy mandatory military service (for both men and women) and they still have the highest OECD birth rate

[@emikomina]

It's scheduled to go reach 0.5 or under 0.60, because towards the end of the year, there are much fewer births.

[@thatvexiol]

So [on average] 4 people in this generation would result in 1 person of next gen , extrapolate this to 200 years and north koreas only barrier to conquering democratic korea would be some 150 year old gen theta

[@ethandouro4334]

Wow

[@sirsurnamethefirstofhisnam7986]

Is there a particular reason for that?

[@emikomina]

@@sirsurnamethefirstofhisnam7986 all countries are the same, typically fewer births towards the end of the year. not sure the exact reason but its clear more people do the baby making later in the year which leads to the baby being born early next year

[@ethandouro4334]

@@emikomina this is very true, that's why many people born more at the end of the year or in January than on the months following

[@alburaq3290]

Housing crisis seems to be the main reason of fertility tanking in most countries.

[@properjob2311]

this definitely applies in the UK - how can you start a family if you cannot get a family home? then they import cheap labour from the 3rd world and that makes it even harder - keeps pay low and increases the demand for housing. i don't know who the governments are governing the countries for but it is not the native citizens. it seems more like the WEF and the interests of the globalist elites. If Asia also falls to the false god of mass migration, the whole world is doomed to a downward spiral to a neo-feudalist future. modern slavery to the government that works on behalf of the elites and money men.

[@n00dl3]

It's one of the many things that makes raising children too expensive. In developed nations, children are a financial burden until at least 18 years old. It's exacerbated in SK due to cultural pressures, but this is a universal issue. Governments can do something about this, but right leaning governments don't want to be seen spending money to help people out. Hence, the costs for raising children will continue to rise and birthrates will dwindle.

[@andriod8014]

Its not, its just an excuse. Dont believe me? Why are people with housing not having kids?

[@kiwiman9754]

​@@andriod8014 because they're 40 😂

[@bulletflight]

​@@andriod8014Because they're infertile

[@uwagajedzietramwaj_]

why have kids when they’re pretty much forced to study all day from a very early age so you’ll barely see them anyway

[@FactsCountdown]

Yes children are indoctrinated in school to become slaves in future.

[@soulanstreets222]

They're not forced to...Parents literally make that choice.

[@uwagajedzietramwaj_]

@@soulanstreets222 nobody wants their kid to be an outcast, especially with how crazy bullying in korean schools is

[@soulanstreets222]

@@uwagajedzietramwaj_ if you’re the type of parent that prioritizes the feelings of strangers over the long term well being of your own child, then you deserve what you get. The best way to stick it to naysayers is to give your kid the freedom from hagwons and let them excel without it.

[@FactsCountdown]

@@uwagajedzietramwaj_ school is preparing children for lifetime of slavery

[@Satou-Akira71]

South Korea - Aldous Huxley Brave New World North Korea - George Orwel 1984

[@prkp7248]

Orwell in one of his last letters wrote that if he could write 1984, he would change the name of ideology from "IngSoc" to "americanism" because people missed the point...

[@disalazarg]

@@prkp7248 doubtful, as it's a straight a parody of Stalin as you can make without giving Big Brother a bushy moustache.

[@MagicNash89]

@@disalazarg Its a parody of both Stalin and a possible Western future. There is a mention of how the proles, the lowest classes, like entertainment like sports matches etc and they keep them happy. This was and is present in both "camps".

[@emrestotheemresto9770]

Well, people were happy and birth rates were much better and stabilized in brave new world

[@prkp7248]

@@disalazarg Read "Compromising Possessions: Orwell's Political, Analytical, and Literary Purposes in Nineteen Eighty-Four" by Edwin Amenta. That's just true and also literature is not one sided, just because in 1984 there is a lot of references to USSR, that doesn't mean that it was not also critical toward the US. I read almost everything that Orwell wrote during his lifetime that survived - letters, essays, novels, diaries etc. so I'm somehow sure about what I wrote.

[@BS-jw7nf]

Having lived in Korea for a bit, I can say that the government “tried nothing and is out of ideas”. It’s basically unliveable for anyone that would like to have kids, and the live that kids can expect is shit. Chaebol growth have been top priority number 1, 2 and 3 and anyone else can stick it. Also a note to TLDR, their household debt is mainly the result from their weird housing scheme. It’s not like anything we have in the west, which translates to a larger than normal debt.

[@captainvanisher988]

Nothing to do with "livable". Do you think the early 20th century was less livable? Yet people were having a bunch of children. Economic ability has nothing to do with this. Koreans just dont want children. Men refuse to get with feminist women and feminist women refuse to marry young, have children and submit to their man. That's as far as it goes. Korean society is on the road to collapse and probably overtaken by North Korea and China.

[@lame6810]

If the government did nothing they wouldn't have this problem.

[@VVayVVard]

@@lame6810 You mean if the government collapsed, and the police and the legal system stopped functioning? I mean I can see how that might fix the issue, but they could literally also fix the issue by just taxing people with

[@MichaelDavis-mk4me]

@@VVayVVard Well, poor people have more kids than rich people. So having the government collapse might actually solve the birth rate problem at the cost of literally everything else.

[@hyhhy]

@@MichaelDavis-mk4me Your "poor people have more kids" is not at all true in current South Korea. Poor people don't have almost any kids at all there right now.

[@hhkk6155]

South Korea is an example of failed capitalism: everything is expensive, wages are low, basically wage slaving

[@hijazzains]

Yes surprisibgly almost everyone there earns like us$2000-3000 a month

[@pottertheavenger1363]

Rather, an example of a perfect capitalist country. Only profit for the bourgeoisie.

[@hhkk6155]

@@pottertheavenger1363 you have a point, when capitalism isn't competing with other systems it starts to exhibit it's true form - profits over everything, even over future

[@fabricliver]

You both are so ignorant. What is the alternative? Communism? Anarchy? Socialism? Monarchy? Fascism?

[@pottertheavenger1363]

@@fabricliver a free market economy with some state controlled essentials and strong worker rights, and more public services such as more universities.

[@batprime1177]

People often claim that poverty is the reason birth rates are declining. There are plenty of countries that have more support for young parents but still have a declining birth rate. There are even more countries that have less support but have a higher birth rate

[@dorino9057]

Is the cost of living is lower in these poor countries and children are needed for labor

[@ozgun05]

Yes it isn't economical it is cultural. Feminism, porn and social media f*cked up dating market that most of the people can't even date let alone making child also even somehow two people marry they probably gonna get divorced because feminism encourages women to divorcing and also pumping the idea of "don't be a mother focus on career instead, be a boss bitch" mindset.

[@xxgaming_generation_2156]

Birth rates are declining everywhere. Even in North Korea were the average person receives little to no government benefits. It’s mostly to do with culture - consumerism, hedonism and Westernisation

[@dansmith1661]

Did something happen with women's rights that they refuse to start families?

[@davidbowie5023]

I think South Korea is too drowned on the target to make itself rich, but not focusing on how to make people's happy. This is the reason why South Korea suffer from such a massive disparity. Their failure to diversify also makes concerns here, as if the wealth is only in Seoul.

[@jurateb.9794]

Patriarchal sociaties don't care about people's hapiness. They usually only care about power.

[@konstantinrebrov675]

Not to make itself rich, but to make the top 1% rich.

[@JamesRoyceDawson]

They’re just ahead of us in this trend. We should take it as a warning and act to avoid it

[@dodiloi]

Yes. More fucking. Less dating

[@tomtimtomtim]

No real solutions to the issue.

[@JamesRoyceDawson]

@@tomtimtomtim there are plenty of solutions. Stop corporations buying up rental properties, reduce the work week and increase wages, create a land tax to stop land-banking, build more homes. Those would go a long way to helping fix the issue

[@hasinabegum1038]

​@@tomtimtomtimAutomation and AI😎

[@lab-testedllamba8554]

Doesn't the UK circumvent this issue via immigration though?

[@FutureCommentary1]

Me watching this from somewhere in a middle income African country with birth rate 4.8. People are comfortable not having material possessions and struggling to make ends meet, sometimes not being able to afford school fees or healthcare. Society's pressure is towards having as many children as possible. Cultural values shift.

[@FrederikEngelmand]

Yeah, that's not good either. We don't what more immigration.

[@pumpkineater31699]

agree, is 100% matter of value rather than economic prosperity.

[@osea5000]

God bless you

[@konstantinrebrov675]

This is why I think that having an ascetic mindset can be beneficial.

[@alanjenkins1508]

@@pumpkineater31699 More a matter of female education.

[@philippecoulon623]

In Seoul and a dad myself. One significant factor is the exorbitant cost and time investment in education, driven by cutthroat competition. Private academies, known as Hagwon, come at a steep price. Additionally, the limited operating hours of preschools and schools often necessitate hiring a nanny or having one parent, typically the mother, reduce work hours or quit altogether, exacerbating gender-based (more mothers pay gap than gender pay gap) wage disparities.

[@Nightynight43]

한국따위의 나라에서 애를 낳는건 범죄다. 그걸 알고도 애를 까?😂😂😂 내가 보기엔 자기 욕심때문에 애새끼 학원보내는 부모보다는 그 애를 죽이거나 마약을 권장하는 사람이 더 선량하고 도덕적으로 보임 븅신같은 나라ㅋㅋ

[@orktv4673]

The ideological gap deserves a video of its own.

[@RandomAussieGuy87]

There was.

[@orktv4673]

You're right! My bad

[@theotherohlourdespadua1131]

​@@RandomAussieGuy87 There still is and they are trying to export it...

[@ThighErda]

Yeah, like how did Women getting liberal impact the Men's perception of ideology? Was liberalism being associated with femininity a part of why Men became conservative?

[@sebastiangruenfeld141]

The ideological gap in South Korea cannot be explained in a mere 10min video. If you are interested in learning more about it the channel "Moon Channel" made an amazing documentary about it.

[@00110000]

Improving economics isn't enough to stabilize fertility rates. Urbanization is a huge part of why birth rates are so low. Obviously we can't just deurbanize, but what we can do is equalize the gigantic wealth gap between the average person and the ultra rich. Obviously it's not as simple as that, but hopefully that'd help ease people into feeling more comfortable and secure in having children. South Korea is infamous for being one of the most absolute corporatocracies and I dare say it's no coincidence that it has the lowest rates of birth. People are basically married to their jobs over there thanks to the megacorporate stranglehold on the country and the resultant competitive and workaholic mindset. I'm not anti-capitalist, but clearly letting the rich and powerful have this much control is not creating a future for Koreans.

[@drjordan5706]

Or maybe it's the absolutely embarassing treatment of women that since they are not forced to get drafted, men think they can do to them and expect from them weathever they want. Have you ever been in a Korean incel online community? They are even more pathetic than Western ones

[@quanghungtran3581]

Easier said than done, though. The chaebols own everything, and can ensure any dissident's life become living hell. The politicians are all in their pocket. Even worse, they basically control the media, so the narrative that the masses hear every day are in their hands as well. Funny, the thing that made Korea an economic miracle is same thing that strangles it.

[@koks49045]

fewer people eventually will mean that the gdp/stock will go down, robots/ai is not energry efficient/capable enough in so many areas, also high enegry demand would mean higher cost of such energy. but the gdp/stock will also go down if ppl would suddenly start to focus more on family than a job, especially short term

[@fnorgen]

Form what I've heard from South Koreans, it is basically a cyberpunk dystopia without the cyber. It has somehow become more antithetical to life than whatever clown shoes communism they've got going up north. Because at this rate it looks like the South Korean population will rapidly wither away while the North Korean one (supposedly) remains about the same.

[@pyroneutral]

@@koks49045 i mean a few points in gdp, in exchange for lower working hours and family subsidies - wouldnt that be worth the trade off

[@user-xh3cs4ki2q]

When you are tied to your desk that long how can you expect to have time to make any family

[@toyotaprius79]

That's the dominant feeling across the "global west" with no signs of wealth inequality shrinking and a dollop of clear climate instability on top. Yes I want to bring children into and inherit a world that is in the middle of an antro/industrial caused mass die off. What's that? No, what use is a pension to me in 2060?

[@MrBurnsExcellent]

I don't think we have to back in time with everything, but you could buy a house, more food etc etc back then making people to have time for that, but now there just overworked because they don't have enough money.

[@captainvanisher988]

Countries with the lowest working hours have far below replacement level fertility rates. This idea that "if you work you don't have enough time to raise children" is ridiculous. Of course if the woman doesn't work there is a correlation with higher amount of children.

[@dallysinghson5569]

So women goes off work and man works 80 hours a week then like in the old days? Absentee fathers yeeeh

[@Joshua-eo5hr]

Just be a stay at home mom

[@AnticAgnostic]

The consequences of modern Feminism.

[@LiberatedNotes]

Lets blame the women for the nations incompetence Men ☕️

[@Neo-jty]

​@@LiberatedNotes wrong, men are way more competent than women in any country, let's blame women for their unreasonable standard while they themselves are all bums

[@dansmith1661]

@@LiberatedNotes A decline in birth rates is literally a woman problem. 🐈🐈🐈women🐈🐈🐈

[@garanceadrosehn9691]

There's one connection where it's not clear to me which is the cause and which is the effect. Do apartment buildings *cause* fewer births, or do people with larger families find that as a family gets larger, then it makes a lot of *financial* sense to for them to have their own house instead of trying to find and pay for an apartment which is adequate for a larger family? Are houses bought by a couple who has zero children, at which point they magically start to have multiple children? Or is it that a couple who already has two children thinks "we need to have our own house if we're going to expand this family"?

[@ShadowBlitz776]

Good question

[@Lina-ws3by]

Its actually an evolutionary trait for everything. More space = higher birthrate.

[@WilliamSantos-cv8rr]

There are many roots leading to a single stem that causes the super low birth rate. But he stem is the same everywhere in the world, the deconstruction of organic communities. As soon an individual leaves their community and go to a super individualistic ''society'' they will inevitably tend to not have children. Traditional communities filters many problems that in a society will be directed straight to an individual, also they support much in so many ways the raising of a kid, as the African proverb says: An entire village is needed to raise a kid.

[@captainvanisher988]

@@Lina-ws3by An evolutionary trait far stronger than that is: woman marry young = higher birth rate. And women marry in far smaller rate and at a higher age. The median age for women to marry has gone to 30 now and by 2030 more than 50% of women over the age of 35 will be unmarried and childless.

[@captainvanisher988]

Agreed. Connections we already know cause lower birth rates are not given any spotlight. Feminism and materialism are by far the most correlative figures with low birth rates.

[@jsb1585]

Another point to raise is regarding the dominance of South Korean chaebols, or mega-corporations. The South Korean economy is dominated by these companies, which in 2021 recorded a nearly 60% market share of the country's GDP. This means that companies can continue with their practices- low pay, long working hours, the intrusive nature of work into one's personal life- because there aren't many alternative options.

[@drscopeify]

The Koreans I know here in Seattle all seem to have children even if they live in apartments, so maybe it's more than just housing style but some kind of social atmosphere? Social pressure? Very strange.

[@WilliamSantos-cv8rr]

Yes, you are right.

[@doujinflip]

Urban living minimizes use of the car for school commutes so the parents can keep working full time?

[@reksapluss716]

@@doujinflip who would want to have a family and live in a cramped urban apartment? we need to go the opposite direction - into more suburbs

[@dallysinghson5569]

Families used to live cramped.... Suburban lifestyle is a new thang that Americans conjured up to enslave you to the motorvehicle

[@thomasgrabkowski8283]

There’s also a tendency for Koreans who do have children to move abroad as the education pressure is much lower

[@jorda_n_]

Animals don’t breed in captivity

[@borovik8714]

Have you heard of dogs and cats?

[@jorda_n_]

@@borovik8714I have funny enough… what’s the point you’re making?

[@borovik8714]

@@jorda_n_ If you want to present an analogy, do it right. Otherwise, you contradict what you may truly want to say. Animals do breed in captivity, not just domesticated ones, but also most wild animals in zoos, with rare exeptions. Everybody (almost, as we may see) knows this. But in general, if you meant to say that lack of freedom is bad - I agree. I am from Poland, I am old, and I lived under socialism until 1989 and 8 years under PiS. Socialism is evil system, brings unjustice (punishing for being ambitious and hard working, rewarding for lasyness). Another issue is feminism. Men should be strong, while women should give birth to many children, and than look after them, until they are mature. There is no other choice for a lot of children to be born; if there were, some civilizations would figure out how to synthesize a different approach to the much-needed and desired neoliberal economy and high fertility rate.

[@pikapi6993]

@@borovik8714 dog and cats aren't in captivity. They are living their best lives with humans, because evolution turned them into pets. On the other hand it's incredibly hard for zoos to breed animals, because it is difficult to offer them the conditions that they need to create heatlhy societies. That's the problem that humans have as well. SK is depopulating because humans aren't living in the environment that makes them develop healthy societies and psychlogically healhy offspring. Therefore they are not reproducing.

[@borovik8714]

@@pikapi6993 I disagree with you about animals, becuse it is easy to find you are mostly wrong (you are rihght thou, when you write, that there are same rare animals dificult to breed in zoo). But to the humans - you are mostly right. The problem is not economy - there is plenty of incetives to have many kids, also in SK. Children are not being born, becuse women do not want to. That is it. Having a baby is expensive, still - comperare it with avarage common ppl conditions 100 years ego. Now with one child you live uncomperably better than 100 years ago with 8 kids. But there was no feminism, so children were born. That's all.

[@Squirrelthing]

"Moon channel" has a two-part video essay called "The gatcha gender wars" that goes more deeply into the historical background of South koreas ideological issues that led to this point. The TL;DR version is that South koreas history led them to adopt a strict version of Confusianism that leads to a 'suck up, kick down' mentality, and the people on the bottom rung of the ladder are under such an enourmous pressure that they take out their frustrations in whatever way they can (btw, most young men are at the second to last rung, young women are at the bottom). Couple this with an entreched corrupt oligarcy of old families that own basically everything and you have a recipe for disaster.

[@nyroysa]

I really wanted to translate that video to korean. But I couldn't do it because soon I have to go to the army.

[@nyroysa]

I commented it, if you search by recent comment you will see me and the Google Drive link (if youtube bot did not delete my comment).

[@nyroysa]

A. We've been through two GamerGate"s", one on the anti-feminist side and one on the feminist side. Assume there's this thing called 16chan. which acts exactly like the feminist version of 8chan. Think of Anita Sarkeesian as if she were Milo Yiannopoulos in 2016, acting with power as much as 2016's and fury as much as 2016's. Every year. And unlike Anita, this so-call activist at one time killed foreign child for their ideology. B. Think Biden directly funded Hasan, Destiny and Vaush to have them preach their ideology. C. Think that these so-called feminists don't know who Judith Butler, Wendy Brown, Mari Ruti, or Judith Jarvis Thomson are; they only learned about feminism, so to speak, on Twitter. They protest to get the podium off to the Judith Butler because they thought Butler is giving us the wrong type of western thoughts, and twitter mocked Butler as a "Western male-looking guy". D. This is the most serious problem in Global perspective, Korean feminists are very hostile to LGBTQ people. It's not just the T. Even the L is problematic. E. Think that Biden hasn't really addressed any of the traditional liberal talking points: Chaebol, political corruption, problems of neoliberalism, real estate, unemployment, education, inequality. How someone can be the "liberal", when this is what "liberal" proposed to? We are so fucked up.

[@nyroysa]

Youtbe just automatically delete the comment below. A. We've been through two GamerGate"s", one on the anti-feminist side and one on the feminist side. Assume there's this thing called 16chan. which acts exactly like the feminist version of 8chan. Think of Anita Sarkeesian as if she were Milo Yiannopoulos in 2016, acting with power as much as 2016's and fury as much as 2016's. Every year. And unlike Anita, this so-call activist at one time killed foreign child for their ideology. B. Think Biden directly funded Hasan, Destiny and Vaush to have them preach their ideology. C. Think that these so-called feminists don't know who Judith Butler, Wendy Brown, Mari Ruti, or Judith Jarvis Thomson are; they only learned about feminism, so to speak, on Twitter. They protest to get the podium off to the Judith Butler because they thought Butler is giving us the wrong type of western thoughts, and twitter mocked Butler as a "Western male-looking guy". D. This is the most serious problem in Global perspective, Korean feminists are very hostile to LGBTQ people. It's not just the T. Even the L is problematic. E. Think that Biden hasn't really addressed any of the traditional liberal talking points: Chaebol, political corruption, problems of neoliberalism, real estate, unemployment, education, inequality. How someone can be the "liberal", when this is what "liberal" proposed to? We are so fucked up.

[@notapokemontrainer800]

And all that to explain the huge drama surrounding Korean anime gacha games

[@_jaydenellis219]

Going extinct is crazy

[@tomlxyz]

I doubt there will be an extinction. If this keeps going this direction eventually there will be so few people and so much land that everything becomes more affordable.

[@korakys]

They'll never go extinct _per se,_ the lower the fertility rate goes the greater the share of the remainder those who buck the trend will be. Typically that's religious people and others who avoid the corporate life.

[@jackdeniston6150]

But we are overpopulated.....

[@benfisher5531]

@@jackdeniston6150no we aren’t, there are more than enough resources, a small minority of people consume WAAAY too much then start claiming there’s ’overpopulation’

[@Felix0587]

​@@jackdeniston6150 Define "we"

[@user-pc9om6md3p]

I'm Japanese, but the reason for the declining birthrate in Japan isn't because of overwork. Because Japanese people in the 90s worked much more than modern Japanese people. The reason for the declining birthrate in Japan is the increase in non-regular employment among young people. Japanese women don't find non-regularly employed men attractive, and they don't see them as romantic partners.

[@awesome8315]

Women want to a regular employee as a partner. 😇😇😇😇😇

[@LiberatedNotes]

Well no shit. Imagine giving birth to childrens and have no money to feed them

[@dailyrant4068]

Japanese also aren't believers of marriages... culturally they are far more likely open to cheating and other things. Makes it very hard to have kids with that mindset, right?

[@dansmith1661]

Women want the three 6s. Figures, abs, inches. Japanese men don't have those.

[@awesome8315]

@@dansmith1661 really 🤔🤔🤔🤔

[@SuperSanic..]

Samsung can easily solve the housing crisis by shifting their offices and factories to other parts of Korea

[@Yui-999]

Work culture and no family/relationship values destroys developed countries. In Korea also government-founded monopolies controlling the prices of everything.

[@user-ik9vi7fi7j]

It's not the government founded monopolies that are controlling the prices for everything. You understand nothing about the South Korean economy.

[@sadasasdas8467]

Incorrect. Which gov funded monpolies are controlling prices? Stop lying rofl

[@eruno_]

All the things you mentioned were present and much worse in the 60s/70s/80s and despite it during that time fertility was high.

[@tpower1912]

​@@eruno_ Fertility was rapidly declining during that time though.

[@eruno_]

@@tpower1912 but why is much worse now? I think its more of cultural shift with women not being confident to homes.

[@David-Rymer]

[promises to abolish the gender equality ministry] (javier milei voice) AFUERA

[@ethandouro4334]

Ok as a Brazilian in Argentina, this one was funny

[@Yui-999]

in Poland it was created recently. it has done nothing but to steal public money, as all useless ministries do

[@petterbirgersson4489]

And of course, the fertility falls even further.

[@MrBurnsExcellent]

@@petterbirgersson4489 It wouldn't

[@jeremigawkowski9775]

@@petterbirgersson4489 cant wait for it to fall to 0

[@gustavusadolphus1714]

Embracing economy-first culture, extreme educational competition, and liberal values simultaneously will depopulate a nation.

[@georgios_5342]

4:28 Greece is similarly Athens-centric, with around 3.8 of the country's 10 million residents living in the capital city of the country. And Greece is facing a similar demographic decline too

[@eksbocks9438]

That makes sense. It basically means there's almost no opportunity outside of Athens.

[@K.M.I]

I see more parallels with Aldous Huxley's work "Brave New World", where children will not be born to women, but will be artificially raised in factories, many things that are already happening and trends that await us in the future are described there.

[@find2hard]

Artificial wombs and embryo's by Samsung.

[@krateproductions4872]

Even Chile and Santiago fall into the example of one metropolitan city dominating a country.

[@LOL-ev8ft]

And with Chilean geography it seems even weirder.

[@mdl2427]

In 15 generations if this kept up, they'll be 1 Korean left. 😂 not exaggerating either. In 5 generations they'll be just 0.15m down from 50m

[@WilliamSantos-cv8rr]

yep, at this trend of declining birth rates they will go extinct by early next century because they will stop having any children by late this century

[@splizzex]

I did not trust this number at first until I've done the calculations myself and holy shit you're right.. With a current population of 50m and half of those being female that's 25m birthing 12.5m which then birth 3.125m which then birth 0.780m which then birth 0.195m. But that's assuming that the fertility rate stays the same.

[@richdobbs6595]

There is no basis to assume that this would keep up for 15 generations. The factors that have caused this situation arose over two generations. What Korea and the world will look like in 5 generations is essentially impossible to predict.

[@mdl2427]

@@richdobbs6595 hence why I said 'if this kept up'

[@ivani3237]

just little bit of immigration from China, or India will solve they problem with population for the another 100 years

[@avakio19]

Crazy how people don't have kids when they can't afford to.

[@manovrsb]

Our ancestors had plenty of children when they were dirt poor. It's not affordability that stopping us from procreation it's time,investment and opportunity which shuns any kind of interest.

[@dallysinghson5569]

A larger portion of those children died too. Infant mortality is really low now.

[@thomasgrabkowski8283]

Yet it’s the rich world that’s not having kids

[@ad_astra468]

⁠@@manovrsb Income is only one part of the equation when it comes to affordability, the other is cost. It costs a lot more to raise a child in a developed urban area than a rural underdeveloped one.

[@MichaelDavis-mk4me]

@@manovrsb And contraception also helps, in fact it's the main factor. Humans like sex, if repeated sex always results in children, then there is going to be a crap load of children.

[@DG20202]

6:44 Putting the whole video aside which absolute madman rates things out of 12

[@MrBurnsExcellent]

common sense

[@splizzex]

That reminds me that some cultures in human history had a 12-centric way of counting as opposed to the predominant 10-centric way. The reason we have such an obsession with 10 is solely because we have 10 fingers. If we had 12 fingers we'd all be obsessed with the number 12 instead which would also be written differently. Our clocks however go in segments of 12 because the humans that first created the clock were the Sumerians and they counted not with their fingers but with their finger knuckles of which you have 12 on each hand excluding your thumbs. Fun fact my parents are iraqi and they still count using their knuckles occasionally because modern day Iraq is where ancient Sumer and Mesopotamia used to be. Different people but traditions seem to have carried over.

[@kennethferland5579]

@@splizzex How exactly dose one count 'With' the knuckles, do you bend them each? just point at them with your other hand?

[@splizzex]

@@kennethferland5579 Sorry I just realized knuckles is the wrong word. I'm talking about the three segments that your fingers (except for your thumb which) are made of. A cursory online search revealed these to be called "Phalanx" though I'm not sure of the validity of that information. What you do is you use your thumb to touch the respective phalanx.

[@MichaelDavis-mk4me]

@@splizzex Some people have 12 fingers. It's a great way to count for them.

[@bigbarry8343]

Let's consider the broader perspective. South Korea stands out as one of the most densely populated nations globally, with a population density double that of Luxembourg.

[@ChristiaanHW]

"But a country (and especially GDP) has to grow, the bigger the growth the better" At least according to most economists. End eventually we the normal people have to make do with a house the size of a broom closet, work 16 hours a day, and take care of 3 kids. Why don't we look into better ways of protecting people and quality of live, instead of always having to grow, grow, grow our GDP

[@meteorknight999]

So the satellite view of koreas showed a dystopia in bright area. NK may live decentralized like africa but that was blessing not the bibical monstrocity of light

[@lioraselby5328]

North Korea, decentralized?​@@meteorknight999

[@captainvanisher988]

@@ChristiaanHW Is that why 92% of land has not been built on? Quality of life definitely has not much correlation with GDP anymore but 100% has correlation with having a family and children.

[@captainvanisher988]

The broader perspective is that by around 2060 North Korea will have the ability to invade and overtake South Korea with ease due to lack of military age population.

[@James-mw7zv]

Korean young ppl are bailing. They have to care for rising number of elderly with outrageously expensive home prices in Seoul. F that!

[@Abyss-Will]

Median house price is 15 years of salary? I just checked and average salary on my country is 200usd a month and for my city average house prices are at 150k (Very few houses are that price, it's just improvised dumpster on illegal settlements for pennies or 250k+ houses) So it would around 62 years of salary to buy a house. Nice.

[@moneyobsessed]

where do you live?

[@lordyoda607]

Nigeria?

[@disalazarg]

Pretty sure the highest ratio in the world is in China at 47x, so most likely you're looking at property prices way, way above what the average person in your country aims to get.

[@danielutriabrooks477]

What kind of palatial estate is that?

[@Abyss-Will]

@disalazarg yeah my city is weird because lots of people want to buy vacation homes in here which drives up property value like crazy, it's so much more expensive than the rest of the country.

[@user-iu1eg2pt7i]

And the most likely development after a generation of such catastrophic birthrates will be the increase in taxation. Young Koreans with opportunities will have to look for jobs abroad and the remaining ones will be even less willing to have children. And the government isn't taking any serious steps towards resolving it. At this point nothing will stop the crisis to come.

[@bobi7152]

I am really questioning the causal link between living in an apartment and lower fertility rates that you present here 5:22 . It’s much more likely that a confounding factor is causing both, like e.g. not enough money to live somewhere where a family could fit (most units in apartment buildings are considerably smaller).

[@dunnbrandon]

It’s really just one reason: money you welcome

[@Junokaii]

Its so bad that North Korea will only be less than 10 million people away from the south's by 2100 with a significantly younger population than the south. Roughly 2.2% of south Koreans will be aged 100+ by then and the largest cohort will be those aged 85-89, being double that of ages 0-4. South Korea's population will collapse from a high of about 51 million down to as low as 24 million by 2100.

[@meteorknight999]

Thats next 20 to 30 years

[@captainvanisher988]

I doubt that South Korea will live to see 2100. Societal collapse is around the corner with earliest estimates being 2050. North Korea will be able to invade and overtake South Korea by 2060 no doubt.

[@reiudfgq3vrh34ur]

North Korea be like 👀👀👀

[@UzumakiNaruto_]

So this means SK's housing issues will fix itself to a degree when the senior population passes on and more housing becomes available. Also this will reduce pressure on SK's healthcare and other social systems leading to better quality care for the rest of the population.

[@Junokaii]

@@UzumakiNaruto_ I think it will. Whether it will convince or allow SK to increase its fertility rate, who knows. I think it will get worse before it gets better though.

[@nicbahtin4774]

Falling birthrates followed by less workers followed by rising cost repeat

[@AdmiralBison]

Makes no sense at all. There has been rising living costs for decades, and shrinking job markets due to corporations laying of countless workers to feed their 1% shareholders. There is no such thing as "less workers". It's less pay keeping up with living costs. How about we change Economic system instead??? - Livable wages tied to inflation - Progressive tax system i.e. increase the taxes on rich 1% so it goes to public infrastructure and services - Universal health care system, increase aged care workers wages so more people can look after the elderly We have *8 Billion* global population and the answer is to have more people? What a stupid economic system we have that treats people nothing more than cattle to make profits for the richest 1% of the population that nearly owns everything.

[@Pmooli]

​@@AdmiralBisonthe beyond belief stubborn Japanese have finally raised salaries. I believe s korea will too. The chaebols have no option

[@AdmiralBison]

​@@Pmooli yes, that's a start, but it's not enough. The world needs an Economic reform (personally I think we'd do better just doing away with most of Capitalism) The economic structure needs to change from most of it privately held to the rich 1% of the population to public/society owned i.e. An economy owned by the people for the people and managed by the working class. not for profit to the rich 1% that own it. + cut down to a 32hr or 4 day work week to allow for the most valuable resource...time time for oneself, loved ones, family and friends. I mean what are we working for right? We work to live not live to work. + 4day work week allows for employing of more people to cover the rest of the work week. "many hands make light work" + Tax the rich 1% shareholders and don't give corporations any tax breaks. Pass those tax breaks to local small and medium businesses so as to help them pay their workers and for them to better compete against corporate monopolies. + Socialist/public owned model * More public services * Free public college tuition - to train future work forces and upskill current ones. * Nationalize critical infrastructure - Energy grids, major transportations, agriculture Big problems require big solutions that benefit all of us.

[@fdhgbjsk]

@@AdmiralBison From an economic perspective the elderly are a drain, increasing the number of aged care workers is a negative since you actually want economic power to transfer to the younger generations in a quicker manner. For the 'more tax on the rich', wealth tax and corporation tax exemptions need to be cut, I'd do away with interest expense write-offs since that would also decrease debt-taking and excessive leverage. You need a big recession and deflationary period to reset. The following effects should make living costs less expensive which would incentivise more people working for themselves which both stimulates competition as well as stables wage growth since wages aren't monopolised by mega corps. Basically, we have to move back to 1933 laws, which means we require a Great Depression event.

[@HALLish-jl5mo]

@@AdmiralBison Humans have three basic stages in life. Ages 0-20ish we are a drain on resources. Ages 20-60ish we contribute resources. Ages 60-death we drain resources. Average wealth will be determined by the productivity of the average worker multiplied by the percentage of people actually working. A population that is slowly growing tends to be the best at having the maximum percentage of productive people. A rapidly shrinking population is the worst. You can implement whatever liveable wages you want, if one productive person has to support 3 retirees, there just won’t be enough stuff to go around. On a macro scale money doesn’t exist, it’s all just resources produced and consumed. All money does is shuffle those resources around. You can only better distribute resources so far before you run into the problem of just not having enough. If there isn’t enough houses, all paying people more money is going to do is drive up prices.

[@chrishopkins8893]

A large factor to me is how inflexible changing jobs is in south Korea. And how when you get a job you can't choose where it is. Many couples that met at university live/work 😊in separate cities sometimes even after they get married they live separately too, it's like a weekend marriage, even raising kids like that, which to me is insane! Theyd like to move jobs to be in the same city but companies often don't like hiring someone whose not a new graduate. So in that aspect alone SK is really shooting itself in the foot! Becuase of the inflexibility of work people can't marry the ones they love!

[@Gstunfisk]

that is due to union and labor law. those need to be abolished.

[@darbywing2]

This is not a fertility rate; it is a birth rate.

[@cgt3704]

Its not just about economics or housing. Its also about the stricture of the society that affects the birth rate. In South Korea many companies have a huge influence in politics and the economy. This has been the case since the 70s and while it certainly helped in making ROK into a rich nation it also allowed these corporations like Hyundai, LG or Samsung, to dominate the private sector and forcing people to work for them. These eventually results in a huge wage gap between employees and higher-ups. As a result, the poverty rate is high at around 17%, more than a lot of european countries. And its not helped by the fact that work culture is rampant in South Korea, and many east asian countries as well. And combine it with the concept of honouring your community and additional hours and non-stop schooling, and you get a lot of young people who are tired and not ones to admit any mistake. And these results in high rates of suicides. So yeah South Korea is in many ways a state influenced by corporations and with people who need to work tirelessly for them. And if these doesnt change then the fertility rate could remain low.

[@kennethferland5579]

The massive corporate control of the economy and the state working hand in glove with it makes the centralization of all jobs in Seol that much more unforgivable. The state should have mandated that economic activity be spread evenly throughout the nation. Instead the state has drawn everything into the capitol to an even higher degree then the private sector would have done.

[@VVayVVard]

This is largely the case with Japan as well, yet Japan's rate (~1.4) is comparable to that among the native populations of Northern Europe (e.g. ~1.4 among native Swedes). In the US, e.g. Caucasian Californians also have a rate of around 1.4. East Asians tend to have lower rates in countries they migrate to, even in Europe, somewhere in the ballpark of 1.2. So the issue is unlikely to be related to work-life balance. A more evidence-based explanation would be that people are simply not sufficiently incentivized to have 3+ children (which is the number parents would need to have, on average, in order for a population to reach the replacement rate, 2.1) in modern society. Therefore those who respond to incentives will not have that many. The easiest solution would be simply to tax those with fewer than 3 biological children at higher rates, and to increase the rates until fertility rates rise to desired levels.

[@cgt3704]

@@VVayVVard i disagree with your solution. Penalizing those who have less kids wont automatically make them reproduce. It will only make them become morenprone to tax evasion as they dont want to pay taxes for what they see as pointless reasons. It also ignores the economical background of many citizens. After all, how can a family who cant pay an increasing rent or to pay for additional public services have enough to pay for the new needs of more than one child or your proposed tax. Either way they cant pay.

[@VVayVVard]

@@cgt3704 Anyone who is prone to tax evasion will evade taxes no matter what the government does. Most people don't, though, because they can't be bothered. And that's why we know this measure would work---it affects the majority, and the majority has the numbers to affect the numbers. Children are pretty cheap, ultimately. You just need some minimal food and water, as well as (optimally) nutritional supplements if you can't afford to provide them with a varied diet. They can also start partly paying for themselves after age 7 or so, by doing household chores, and later, by working part-time or even full-time.

[@korakys]

The single biggest factor, that applies globally, is rigour of education. The longer and more intense the education the fewer children people have. South Korea has a very intense education system, easily the most in the democratic world. Of course, generally, education is great, but there needs to be a systemic solution to get everyone to ease up on this is a bit.

[@UzumakiNaruto_]

Kinda hard to ease up when everyone around you is competing so hard against you. Only the government can try and change things and attempt to improve South Korean quality of life with abit less work and abit more time for people to do other things.

[@baobamarcopolo726]

It's not cash, our society is the most productive it has ever been, its that capitalism destroyed any idea of "motherhood" as a valid future. People are expected to work 8 hours daily until their 60s-70s, by forcing women into the workforce and disguising it as (insert label here), there is simply no time to raise a family, combine that with the fact that our tradicional institutions that helped raise kids are also destroyed (mostly religion). I'm not saying "women can't work lmao", of course they can, but the main reason capitalism has allowed this to happen wasn't the universalization of rights, but rather that this increased the workforce by 200%, so basically, because of profit.

[@bertyp2278]

"The commodification of the labor market, where workers, including women, are treated as mere economic units or resources to be exploited for profit, has had detrimental effects on birthrates and fertility rates. The so-called "women's rights in the workplace" has often been a guise for corporations to monetize and extract value from women's labor, subjecting them to the same grueling work demands as men, without adequate considerations for their unique biological and societal roles. This relentless pursuit of productivity and profit has resulted in women delaying or foregoing childbearing altogether, as the demands of the workplace leave little room for balancing career and family life. Consequently, this commodification of labor has contributed to plummeting birthrates and declining fertility rates, posing long-term challenges for societal sustainability and generational renewal."

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

Someone needs to work, and someone needs to raise the children, peoples have tried having one parent do one and the other parent do the other, or you can both split your time between career and family, but someone needs to look after children.

[@bertyp2278]

@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts yes and we have evolutionarily evolved propensities as men and women to take on each roles. Im not advocating for restricting the free choice of people by forcing women out of the work palce or anything like that. I simply think its more a indicator that we have gone down the wrong path when women participation in the labor market and destruction of gender roles are hailed as progress. This does not improve society.

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

@@bertyp2278 I agree. 1 Timothy 2:15 "However, she will be kept safe through childbearing, provided she continues in faith and love and holiness along with soundness of mind."

[@minartextileindustrieslimi2471]

When men and women in gender norms it will cannot change fertility level because of infertile problems increasing no of fertility hospital

[@johnl.7754]

Surprised that Puerto Rico was ranked next to last

[@luisa.acevedo3326]

A combination of natural disasters, people moving to the mainland, economic crisis, a little touch of gender equality, and older people moving in from the mainland. PR is aging fast.

[@foxooo]

GIVE YOUNG PEOPLE HOMES AT AN AFFORDABLE RATE AND THEY WILL HAVE CHILDREN

[@douchebagg7]

Why's Singapore's population falling then?

[@foxooo]

@@douchebagg7 because it’s unaffordable to have housing and thus have space to raise a family? You act like this hasn’t been going on for 40 years

[@sontohartono]

@4:27 The Netherlands has the Randstad, an region comprised of several urban cores, such that it is effectively consider a single city. Almost half the country lives in it.

[@joaoruiz2577]

about the concentration of people in one place: the metropolitan capital of Montevideo, Uruguay's capital, has almost 2/3 of the country's population

[@TJR93]

At least South Americans still have more children per woman than East Asia.

[@NuSpirit_]

I think as many pointed out biggest issue is the work environment in South Korea. In my country a lot of colleagues (even males) take maternity (or paternity) leave to be with kids, are allowed to go earlier home to pick kids from school, have extra 7 days of doctor's visit with kids compared to usual number for people without kids, have many benefits (work, tax, etc.) and still we have declining population. Can't imagine SK without many of those things, less vacation, less doctor leave days, I think they basically have no paternity leave, basically mandatory over time and much longer work days/weeks, would do better.

[@kst2154]

There is no evidence that days off for dads improve the birth rate in any country.

[@natedogg890]

It's not all about economics. I'm 34, own a nice house with my wife that we can afford, live in a safe country and have a pretty good financial situation. We keep talking about having kids, but the world feels so dark, and we aren't sure we can withstand the stress of kids right now... Maybe it's selfish

[@dallysinghson5569]

So you're not having kids because you feel bad or because you worry the kids will experience bad??

[@connormcgee4711]

Whatever choice you make, please don't feel guilty. We will have to learn to deal with population decline at some point, either now or later. If you two decide to not have kids - if that is the selfish option - look for other ways to do good in the world. Good luck!

[@natedogg890]

@@dallysinghson5569 Both? I fear for the future of the new generations. I also worry that I won't be able to handle the stress of fatherhood on top of the stress of my career, which is a very performance driven one.

[@DOCTORKHANblog]

@@connormcgee4711 No they should feel bad.

[@connormcgee4711]

@@DOCTORKHANblogGuilt comes from wrongdoing. Having a child isn't inherently good, but good comes from it by providing for the next generation. You can provide to to the next generation without birthing children, thus, they shouldn't feel guilty.

[@bradleypaulus2926]

I totally understand this trend. With life becoming so stressful and not having enough time for everything, having a 24 hour a day job added is not possible for most people.

[@sspectre8217]

4:20 another country that heavily depends on one metropolitan area is Costa Rica. Some time ago 50% lived in the great metropolitan area and I doubt it has changed much

[@xbirdshorts5075]

And people say north korea is a dystopia

[@spadegaming6348]

Would love to see a video on North Koreas population growth since its going up.

[@kuromad]

Yea this is a problem. And they are very limited in the economic incentives they can offer, because of the burden old people (who don't contribute anymore) are on the economy. Anything they invest now, only starts contributing to the economy in 20 years. And it also increases the cost of healthcare and education in the meanwhile.

[@raggedcritical]

Hey, and there’s my city. Right after Seoul in the “most expensive” rankings. Joy.

[@HShango]

It must be so expensive to live in south korea 👀

[@martthesling]

no, its actually very cheap to live in SK.

[@sadasasdas8467]

@@martthesling He is an idiot.. lol

[@haltux]

@@martthesling At least accomodation childcare and education are insanely expensive. So well I guess phones are cheap but I don't think you can say life is very cheap in general.

[@martthesling]

@@haltux renting and education is cheap in South Korea.

[@haltux]

​@@martthesling OK, it seems you are right, interesting. I expected house prices to have dragged rental price to insane levels like elsewhere, for example Paris, London or San Francisco. So the whole video makes no sense right? If you can rent a decent family flat for a decent price then there is no reason to not have children.

[@chrism6880]

Gender equality ministry 😂😂😂

[@Wyrmsforbrains]

Aight imma head there and get those rates up 😈🙏🏻

[@evilds3261]

And who is going to raise the little bankruptcy demons? If the economic downsides of having kids get bad enough, mothers who never wanted kids will abandon them to die because they do not have the resources to raise and keep them alive.

[@jasonhaven7170]

Dob't use Black slang.

[@jasonhaven7170]

They don't want little pink peen

[@Mrnewkrakbo]

Housing prices on the 7th heaven, why is the birth rate so low!!???

[@XOUL]

North Korea played the long game 😂

[@user-jt3dw6vv4x]

North Korea faces a low fertility rate too. Kim Jong Un is getting so scared now that he even said it's a North Korean woman's patriotic duty to have a baby.

[@jazznik2]

At 4:16 - The only countries you could think of? What about Iceland where Reykjavik is 64.8% of the country's population? Or Uruguay where Montevideo has 40.34% of the nation's people? Or Israel where Tel Aviv has 43.5% of the population? Or Beirut which has 43.8% of Lebanon's people. Also Tallinn, Estonia and Riga, Latvia w similar %'s to the 2 that you cited, Tokyo, Japan and Copenhagen, Denmark. Many other countries in 23%-31% range.

[@pumpkineater31699]

in iceland there is 350K people lmao, why you comparing uniqe situation to general consensus?

[@simonhrabec9973]

2:28 what about Amsterdam, Bratislava and Prague? There is no source included in the info graphics...

[@alburaq3290]

There should be a cut off for voting age. Like you can't before 18 and after 65.

[@piddlydiddly]

Slippery slope that one though, could easily develop into only being able to vote if you're on payroll/paying tax. So the sick, disabled, students etc don't get to vote.

[@HarisP000]

What the other comment said. Democracy is great because everyone gets to vote, but democracy is also terrible because EVERYONE gets to vote. There is no need to restrict voting, young people simply have to start taking over parts of the country, forming parallel societies (w/o violence) and telling the government to f off. What's the government going to do? Send the police? We are their police. Send the army? We are their armies. Many parties in Europe are starting to realise this. It's insane

[@kennethferland5579]

I think SOME kind of shift is needed to blunt the voting power of seniors. I think a better solution is to change from geograhic apportionment of seats in legislative bodies to a system of aportioning out 4 top level blocks based on life phase. First phase is all people under voting age and their parents, second is young people of age without childre, third is empty-nesters still working, and 4th retiress. This will immediatly limit the power of retirees who typically have high turnout rates, they can only take their actually population share of representatives, meanwhile children too young to vote are grouped with their parents who now vote for the group which is aportioned to have the representation proportional to their whole number and are protected from the lower turnout rates that all younger demographics have as a consequence of inexperience and more recently as a consequence of hopelessness. Such a shift immediatly puts Parents in the drivers seat as they will likely be the single largest grouping.

[@Real_MrDev]

Guess making your average dude's life hell itself, ain't going to pay off in the end?!

[@ob1934]

Hell is far worse.

[@mnm1273]

Life's measurably worse for South Korean women, the biggest pay gap in the world. EDIT: developed world not world

[@captainvanisher988]

@@mnm1273 Life's measurably is worse for Korean women according to what? This is ridiculous. The biggest pay gap is only attributed to the boomer generations. In Gen Z women are out earning men. Men live in a man hating feminist society, a society that allowed feminist to run man hating campaigns and censor every single male space including the internet. Why do you think Korea has such draconian internet censorship measures? Feminists in the government did it.

[@lamsmiley1944]

If the choice is not having children or living in a toxic relationship then I completely understand why they wouldn’t want to be with those men. Those women are probably far happier than the “alpha males”.

[@mnm1273]

@@pichisnoweasel7977 "I feel like women tend to deal with being single better than guys" that's a silly thing to state as some kind of truth. Socially, women have more pressure to be married, because being a mum is such a major archetype. And being fine with not being in a relationship isn't a gender thing, it's an attitude. "and for a vast number of guys not having access to marriage equates to not having sex mostly, which isn’t true for most women" Mathematically, guys have as much heterosexual sex as women. Realistically, that means a similar number of men and women do it out of marriage. "even if you don’t get paid as much" that's literally the only metric where there's genuine inequality. Seems silly to discredit it based on vibes. Income is directly correlated with happiness, especially at the salaries most people have.

[@neurtube5222]

After the NTH room case and one of the main guys behind it getting only 38 years, why in the hell would anyone with a brain, morals, or plain simply a woman want to have children to begin with in korea? Then you also got other terrible cases like the Sewol Ferry Tragedy or the case of Lee Yeram, so if you ask me koreans just have brains to be able to look at all the injustices around them and say why in the bloody hell would I risk my own potentially going through such especially when our own government refuses to defend and protect us like it is supposed to.

[@whopito422]

Correlation does not equate causation. If anything, the flats or apt buildings exist for the smaller families, not causing it. Same as US. Many persons without kids need places to live and dont necessarily require fullsize home or want to live in kid heavy area where may be ostracized

[@AnonymousOmniscience]

In this episode of “Let’s pretend AI and robotics aren’t replacing the need for human labor”…

[@user-ne1ud8nv5l]

As a South Korean, I think, there is one more main reason of fertility crisis, the education problem. Korean education is very suck. So, Korean students usually have to go through very severe competition, which puts parents and students under very severe stress and economic pressure. Therefore, many parents give up giving birth because of this difficulty in education.

[@autumndavidson8686]

That's honestly so sad. So much competition to barely get a good life, if at all.

[@mariabop]

That means no more kdrama, kpop etc. in the future babes 👏

[@logbia7k608]

Kpop won't go away, the artists will just get replaced by AI making the society even more dystopian

[@benslyfink]

You should do a follow up to this on the 4B problem in s Korea

[@simianinc]

Auckland, New Zealand is a single-city urban population to country ratio similar to Tokyo and Copenhagen 33.4% according to Wikipedia.

[@Daivd1111]

Eventually it will hit equilibrium where population density is just right, South Korea is over populated for its size anyways.

[@WilliamSantos-cv8rr]

No it will not.

[@doujinflip]

_Seoul_ is overpopulated, the rest of the country is hungry for residents. Problem is Korea’s economic setup favors turning the whole country into a literal city-state centered around Seoul.

[@Clara_linking]

They are smart not to have kids in poor financial situations.

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

You'd rather have no population them? Also it's not like they are staving kids in africa.

[@Empiriarch1945]

What they are experiencing is a whole nother sort of challenge​@@GreenBlueWalkthrough

[@4m4n40]

Also almost impossible to achieve a fulfilling life there. Depressing to grow up and work there unless you’re rich.

[@cristiii7605]

Bruh people lived trough wars and still had kids

[@skipper2594]

learn from india🤣have as much as kids you can with the average salary of 100 000 indian rupees per year(1200 $ for whole year)😂

[@CestLaVie702]

As a South Korean, I guess the biggest problem is that family is no longer a factor in happiness.

[@Kittykat5kits]

I had 5 kids as a lower middle class millennial who are growing up healthy and happy. Want to know why? #1 reason is a supportive husband who pulls his full weight with chores and childcare. You want to fix your population crisis, Korea? Fix your misogyny problem first.

[@user-fu4ke3vq5f]

the whole world will become East Asianized, it’s just that China and Japan and South Korea are still very slowly declining, very soon the birth rate will also begin to fall in European countries and in the most developed and rapidly developing countries of Africa. For example: according to Rosstat for 2023, the total fertility rate in Russia was 1.29 children per woman, and there are no trends visible for reversing this process

[@Vandelberger]

I mean the poor tend to have more children. Is it possible the middle class just don’t want to spend money on children and be more comfortable?

[@joschmo4497]

The poor tend to have more children in less developed countries. In more developed countries, not really true.

[@Vandelberger]

@@joschmo4497 In my own little experience, it is. My family was poor and my mom had 3 children. Many poor families around me also had at least 2 kids. I myself, for idk whatever reason, never had children so far or even accidental children. Maybe the microplastics are effecting fertility.

[@joschmo4497]

@@Vandelberger In my own experience, it isn't. So what now? Is that how we determine the truth? In developed world, there isn't any significant difference between the birthrates among religious versus non religious, nor poor versus rich.

[@Vandelberger]

@@joschmo4497 No I agree, but you only really know what you see and besides statics which do say poor people have more children, I see it for myself. Religion is a big factor, agree, Mormons have huge families and well as Catholic families but they also emphasis women and children care and not women and business success. There is no one factor.

[@dallysinghson5569]

In my experience moving where it's more expensive to live means less likely to have more kids. Poor folk can have more kids for lower cost because they live in much poorer areas that tax them less. I other words had even in expensive area the housing is cheap then I bet the fertility rates increase

[@newtonianpineapple2817]

This may be the solution to the Fermi paradox. Extinction caused by demographic collapse.

[@marsspacex6065]

It must be something in the culture because that rate is so crazy.

[@berserkirclaws107]

I personally don't think there is cause to worry. Each species on earth (if undisturbed by us) as a controlled growth cycle who is closely connected to it surrounding. For example simple snow rabbits who eat mostly one type of plants will reproduce up to a point then the plants who was is main source of food on the verge of extinction will turn poisonous for a time killing a set amount of snow rabbits ready to repeat the cycle. We are complex creatures but we fonction on the same principle and even know our cycle is infinitely more difficult to understand we still have one.

[@Ceylin_Kurtbogan]

Many peoples and species have been completely wiped away without a single trace. Since this is strictly about Korea, I would like to ask where the Romans are