Southeast Asia’s Vexing Haze Puzzle

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[@anjangakuan5959]

Defining the issue as a "puzzle" is very generously diplomatic of you. We all know its the corruption, idleness and cronyism that is at the heart of the issue. Its a matter of reaching a critical tipping point and surely then a 'solution' would swiftly be found.

[@harukrentz435]

Its called cycle of nature. Did you not see how NYCs sky turned orange last year due to haze from massive forest fire in Canada?? What?

[@harukrentz435]

Tanah gambut kena panas matahari aja bisa kebakaran, tau gak situ?? Gw k Cilegon disana gunung2 bnyk yg tanahnya gambut dan tanah itu panas dan berasap padahal cuma kena terik matahari. Bayangin klo ratusan ribu hektar tanah gambut kaya gimana itu coba, apalagi klo dibawahnya banyak batubara? Jangan kaya Mental Babu deh, belajar dulu yg bener.

[@syjiang]

@@harukrentz435 That is silly whataboutism. The North American forest fires are not a direct result of its population intentionally setting fire to clear agricultural land. The temperate forest here has a completely different ecology that include a fire cycles in order to recirculate biomass. The warming climate, dryer seasons coupled with prolonged human intervention against forest fire lead to huge accumulation of dried kindle material on the forest floor and resulted in our massive forest fire. There is nothing natural with the air pollution stemming from indonesian plantation practices.

[@secrets.295]

@@harukrentz435 There is a difference between natural disaster and a government who allows its people to burn forest uncheck. Your comparison is quite pathetic

[@ejuss4216]

@@harukrentz435 things that always happen every year is not the same as NYC haze.

[@gary25566]

As someone from Singapore, we have a joke that if we can smell/see haze from Indonesia, it means we have not been thanking them enough to stop the spread.

[@rherydrevins]

For context, the vice-president of Indonesia, Jusuf Kalla, once made the following statements: "For 11 months, they (our neighbours) enjoyed nice air from Indonesia and they never thanked us. They have suffered because of the haze for one month and they get upset." "How many months do you think everybody (our neighbours) enjoys the fresh air from our green environment and our forests when there are no fires? It could be months. Are they thankful? But when forest fires occur, it at most lasts for a month, the haze pollutes their territories. So why should we apologise?"

[@evertchin]

It doesn't help when Malaysia and Singapore govs both also no lan pa to take firm actions against Indonesia all these years, just barking at own doorstep 😂

[@thewaterbearer16]

@@evertchinactually the Singapore government did launch investigation onto companies which was found to slash and burn. Some were pulp and paper companies, which made paper products including things like toilet paper and tissues. I believe these information were passed onto the Indonesia diplomatically, so as not to upset them.

[@evertchin]

@@thewaterbearer16 yea...but it is still considered as 'barking' as it really doesn't change anything realistically, the haze are still getting worse. That being said, the Malaysian government is much worse though.

[@cv990a4]

@@rherydrevins I wonder how much money goes into that guy's bank account from land interests who want to burn?

[@GnomaPhobic]

If ASEAN is the second most successful supranational regional organization after the EU, then the others must be absolute shambles.

[@RogueReplicant]

NAFTA is the most successful.

[@miaya3898]

The whole of Sea probably earns up to $1.3 trillion in forex a year. Yet it's poor

[@dudeidontcare3430]

nafta is a treaty, ASEAN is an organization. Why did you even bother posting

[@cauhscrymdorn2132]

@@RogueReplicant North America Free Trade Agreement, not even an actual legal body...

[@jahanb2002]

​@@miaya3898corruption and nepotism. Very South Asian of them.

[@nadermansour7487]

I worked in East Kalimantan the oil services industry in 1997 doing open hole logging around Balikpapan and Samarinda. There are beds of surface coal there that extend underground. These would often catch fire, which created beds of smoldering coals that extended under the roots of the forest causing stabs of trees to catch fire from the roots if the ground got too dry. These fires require special and expensive fire fighting techniques.

[@janeblogs324]

5:26 "wildfires" so at least as early as 1997 man has been calling man made fires Wildfires

[@Cheesemonk3h]

@@janeblogs324 wait till you find out about dresden

[@rashidisw]

@@janeblogs324 it is man made fires that out of control, which make them 'wild'.

[@wootle]

Really interesting and eye opening to read your comment, thanks for sharing.

[@wahid-lg1kk]

Ya it's mostly burning to clear land for oil palm which kills off the orangutans

[@bambangl]

The title is southeastasia haze, buy it didn't touch at all the haze situation in Thailand/Laos/Cambodia which last year for example was quite severe. It should be re-titled to Indonesian haze affecting Southeastasia. Also it is not highlighted enough that: - Recent years the haze situation in Indonesia, is much better that a decade ago - Slash and burn farming or plantation is still a preferred method not only because of the cost of the clearing equipment, and the disposal issue, but because the fertilising effect of the burned ashes. Even if equipment is provided, farmers still do not want to use them. This practice is both done on rice farmers (which main cause of the haze in Thailand) and small plantation owners. - Big palm oil plantation in Indonesia is half owned by Malaysian and Singapore companies - while big companies can show that their plantation are not using slash and burn, but they also buy a lot of palm oil fruits from smaller farmers or their middlemen - hence tracking the 'cleanliness' of their oil is quite difficult

[@Loktoris]

How are you gonna make a video about SEA and leave out all of these countries is wild.

[@seans7228]

I agree. I was in Cambodia last year and the smoke and PM2.5 were crushing in May/June. Why is it happening so much earlier this year? Thanks

[@A_itsar]

If I am understanding you correctly the haze producers is not just Indonesia, but also Thailand laos and cambodia?

[@a_kuma]

I will always remember Indonesia's VP asking neighbouring countries to be thankful for the clean air they enjoy from Indonesia for most of the year. Thank you Indonesia!

[@decTac]

😂 😅🤣

[@igedeagussukrisnawan7590]

Sounds like a blackmail, I wonder if things get better if ASEAN was a united states or a Country.

[@abdulwahidmdtahir3660]

Just like thanking a bully for not punching us for 11 months.

[@floodo1]

“Asia’s fazed, dazed by haze” Helluva headline, makes me wonder if the author wasn’t dazed by haze as well (-8

[@gus473]

I miss the old Rocky Mountain News! Great tabloid, at least into the early '80s! 😎✌️

[@goldnutter412]

Hazed AF bruh

[@jyy9624]

A connoisseur rock on

[@kamakaziozzie3038]

-7/-9

[@dextershaman7154]

Philippines is not really experienxing haze..the waste managemrnt sector take garbage into landfill.

[@glenncronise7775]

That's how many areas of the US looked before The Clean Air Act.

[@miaya3898]

LA smog! 😂

[@mysterioanonymous3206]

I think a big contributor to haze is also the rice harvest, aka farmers burning their leftover chaff and straw. it may not seem like much but all of Asia is doing it, and in aggregate it's an enormous amount that goes up in flames after every harvesting season.

[@xponen]

it helps to remove pest & pathogen from the field.

[@notusneo]

​@@xponenit also helps the soil acidity with the burned ash

[@shapesinaframe]

I live right next to rice fields in northern Thailand, the rice burn-off is minimal - it’s when the corn farmers burn-off that the smoke really starts to kick off. The most common source of smoke in my experience is burning in residential areas. Composting green waste is not a thing, people just burn everything - and seem to have no problems burning plastics and whatever else is lying around 🫠 Unfortunately the time crop burnoffs happen coincides with the time when thermal inversions happen, trapping the smoke, creating a lingering haze 😶‍🌫️

[@mysterioanonymous3206]

@@shapesinaframe I've been all over Asia so I've seen this first hand, the burns are definitely significant.

[@dubstepXpower]

Better to decompose it​@@xponen

[@carlramirez6339]

I was in Vietnam in January. While haze is something I've learnt to expect from various travels in Southeast Asia, I was surprised that there was severe haze far out to sea in Ha Long Bay, where there was no industry because it's a protected area.

[@vuanh75]

As a Vietnamese, I believe the Haze that you experienced in Ha Long Bay was infact Smog that came down from China's industrial plants accross the border. And it worsen in the past 10 years, especially in Northern Vietnam. Similar sistuation as South Korea which also in the close proximity with China.

[@havencat9337]

oh yea, for sure! blame without proof... @@vuanh75

[@havencat9337]

in the north there is Yunan, that region is mostly touristic, not many factories....so try to blame someone else @@vuanh75

[@jerryle379]

January = winter in north-central Vietnam , either it fog or smog from factory

[@LackofFaithify]

Haze has to be the most PC, tippy toe term there is for air so polluted it is no longer fit to breathe.

[@moniker2804]

Not PC, just a technical term.

[@stormveil]

​@@moniker2804It is. The term is smog. Smoke fog.

[@pv2639]

Oh really? Why do you think there are song titles such as purple haze from the seventies? you must think the metric system is pc lol

[@pv2639]

Your way of thinking is symbolic of "not really the problem, but most definitely 100 percent not being part of the solution" 😂

[@mytech6779]

Haze is a meteorology term for a type of visibility obscuration, it is often asociated with thermal inversion layers. There are also smoke (directly from a fire, larger particles than haze), mist, ash(volcanic, more of a mineral dust), fog/clouds, snow, and heavy rain (Rain obscuration tends to be short duration compared to the others.)

[@ItsaDigitalHamster]

This all sounds very familiar if you know a bit about London's history. Air pollution was a massive problem in London ever since the Industrial Revolution, and "fogs" were relatively common. In the 1870s there were a couple major ones, and the last one was the Great Smog of 1952, which resulted in a lot of deaths and injuries (both from the smoke, and from traffic collisions). After decades of talking about air quality legislation (and some interruption from the first and second world wars), the Clean Air Act was finally passed in 1956. Nowadays London is still slightly hazy, and the air quality isn't amazing, but it's better than it has been in the past.

[@alexritchie4586]

I'm from rural Westcountry England and lived in London around 10 years ago. I didn't think the air quality was that bad until I went up to the top of Primrose Hill on a sunny Summer's day, and looked back over the city. There was a line in the sky, around 30° above the horizon. All the sky above it was bright blue. All the sky below it was faint grey-brown.

[@darkjudge8786]

Yeah, because we outsourced our manufacturing to China and now pretend we are an environmental champion. Easy to solve your environmental issues when you export 20 million bins to the 3rd world. So many fucking left wing climate nazi virtue signallers her forgetting where all.the shit we used to make comes from now

[@ccctube5721]

There is never haze in London

[@makelgrax]

This sounds way too much like "there is no war in Ba Sing Se" for me to take it seriously

[@samueladams2340]

So you're saying the Indonesian government is a hundred years away from cleaning up the air? I think you're being too generous.

[@erikhesjedal3569]

Southeast Hazeia

[@iamwillshepherd]

I see wish you did there 😂

[@liquidpatriot4480]

​@@iamwillshepherd👀

[@mfaizsyahmi]

@@iamwillshepherd your vision clouded by the haze

[@megancao5988]

😭

[@eddyr1041]

Hazel .... nut .... nyum ... nuts 😅

[@miaya3898]

I'm from Southern PH 🇵🇭 I was still in highschool when the haze from the Indo 🇮🇩 forest fires 🔥 reached us in '97

[@michaelmoorrees3585]

In Los Angeles, we use to call it smog, for smokey fog. By the mid 1980s, air quality greatly improved. Back in the 1970s, it could get so bad, that the reddish brown haze (really bad smog) could be so thick, that the visibility was less than a city block ! Look much like an alien planet, from a cheap sci fi movie.

[@Nosirrbro]

Still gets so bad you can’t see past a city block here in salt lake in the winter

[@gus473]

A lot of the research on smog formation began in the late '40s-early '50s in and around LA. A.J. Haagen-Smit, who was a plant specialist, generally gets credit for determining what went into the secret (atmospheric) sauce. Be a good story for Asianometry some week...! 😎✌️

[@miaya3898]

The smog joke was still prevalent in the 90s and early to mid 2000s

[@Chiller11]

@@NosirrbroSalt Lake City is so prone to inversion in the winter. I grew up in Denver which has a similar problem. It’s bigger so the volume of pollution is greater but it doesn’t trap the pollution as badly as Salt Lake.

[@Nosirrbro]

@@Chiller11 Yeah denver isn't a valley like salt lake so at least there's somewhere for the pollution to go, in the winter you can go into the mountains and see the pollution as a straight up lake in the valley perfectly held in by the mountains

[@nopenonein]

The South East Asian Haze Crisis of 2013 to 2016 was the worst. Indonesia didn’t do anything because of a freak of nature of favourable winds, Jakarta never suffered or experienced the haze. They didn’t care that their own citizens and children in the Provinces or neighbouring Countries were suffering because that is what Government officials do. “I don’t know why you guys are complaining? It is extra work for me”.

[@conor7154]

Why do you say that’s what government officials do? You don’t see this problem in European or North American countries. It sounds like a regional problem.

[@nopenonein]

@@conor7154 Everything has a regional context. Come here to understand and stop spouting European ideals.

[@nopenonein]

@@conor7154 It is called the South East Asian Haze Crisis.

[@rahmadgerpol]

Yeah southern wind from south to north.

[@mysteriousfox88]

ASEAN is a clown show for corruption @@conor7154

[@fatahaiman8801]

There's a saying in SEA, Indonesian will claim everything except their own haze

[@XGN05]

Sounds just like china.

[@lucknutkau4333]

malaysia boleh

[@aaronlimeuchin7352]

​@@XGN05 at least, China is not stupid enough to claim Gundam as theirs, like Indonesia once did.

[@ainblanc4329]

​@@aaronlimeuchin7352I'm sorry what? For real? Lol

[@waisrahman5257]

When Indonesia stop exporting the palm oil, everybody suddenly lose their mind and condemn this action. But when the palm farmers set their field on fire to keep the cost production low so you can buy a much cheaper palm oil everybody also lose their mind because of the haze, so how about stop using the palm oil altogether you genius

[@jaymacpherson8167]

I like the use of “haze” in the law instead of smoke because haze has various origins beyond combustion products. For instance, humidity alone can create haze. As can particulates that originate from other sources such as natural plant emissions such as isoprenes. PSI from fires in the Pacific NW of North America has exceeded 1000 for multiple days a few times in the last 6 years.

[@jman6109]

Call it what it is, smog pollution! Haze sounds like a foggy morning...

[@mfaizsyahmi]

There's a 200 IQ joke that involves Malaysia developing a reversible wind turbine design that can blow wind when supplied with electricity, then use it to plant wind farms all over the west coast of the peninsula. When the haze comes we can just switch it to blow mode to blow the haze away!

[@Jake-zk3eb]

Genius

[@ziyatzubaidi3134]

malaysia boleh

[@jumalankeskisormi]

That is not even a 50 IQ joke

[@operandexpanse]

@@jumalankeskisormihaha yeah that’s what I was thinking 😬

[@mfaizsyahmi]

@@jumalankeskisormi IQ tests are normalized for the population being tested ;)

[@user-yy9hk9od9u]

Farmers are burning jungle in Sumatra. This is obvious.

[@manchagojohnsonmanchago6367]

Yeah, samatra and borneo.. Pathetic and sad.

[@mipmipmipmipmip]

​@@doublewhopper67 you have a lack of understanding on the effects of doing things at large scale

[@DylanElmgreen]

But also Thailand in the opposite season. March - April it is the worst air quality on Earth. Pure smoke in Chang Mai

[@crasho1980]

depend on the area. if it us hardwood area that does not make sense as hardwood is much faster revenue source and the value is quite high.

[@MGW27]

'Haze,' didn't we used to call that smog?

[@LackofFaithify]

Smog had too much of a negative connotation. We didn't want to hurt the feelings of those making air unfit for human respiratory systems.

[@megalonoobiacinc4863]

not to be confused with smug, which is a much more destructive weather phenomena

[@probablynotmyname8521]

Smog used to be associated with an anthropogenic cause. In this case it seems to be more caused by forest fires, whether this is anthropogenic is up for debate.

[@LackofFaithify]

@@probablynotmyname8521 Yes, debate....the debate as to whether or not officials on the pay of plantation owners paid enough to not be brought to trial and or found guilty of starting said fires.

[@Dan-hx6ni]

Smog is usually a product of industrial pollution

[@itsover9008]

This terminology makes me think about George Carlin's bit on "Soft language". He was so ahead of his time.

[@trvst5938]

Can you explain?

[@__-fu5se]

@@trvst5938 Using Euphemisms to skirt around real, serious issues and not offend the big wig stuffers.

[@TaLeng2023]

In the Philippines the media already call inmates "persons deprived of liberty" and juvenile delinquents "children in conflict with the law". Seems we are being used as testing ground for social engineering so you can expect these PC terms to come to you eventually.

[@larkop6504]

It's partly because of lack of services in Indonesia. People burn everything, every day! It's also cultural in that younger members see older people burning waste. From what I can see there is not council waste removal services, they seem to be privately arranged, selective in were they service and very selective in terms of what they have to remove. Fires domestically are lit at nighttime. But the Hazes you mention are due to forest fire and land clearance.

[@dubstepXpower]

That's so fucked, imagine all the cancerous shit being released

[@larkop6504]

@@dubstepXpower Yeah sadly it destroys younger kids. Not all but most adults develop persistent coughs. Another thing I have noticed is the fumes badly irritate your eyes, they gradually become bloodshot. It's not too bad in the winter, it rains regularly which clears the air and the sky is lovely and clear

[@excalibro8365]

@@dubstepXpower A significant part of Indonesians just don't care about keeping the environment clean at all. They burn their plastic trash on their lawn in the morning ruining the fresh morning air and litter all over the place when being outside. The streets are dirty, the parks are dirty, the beaches are dirty, the rivers are dirty, the street gutters are clogged with trash which causes flooding every time heavy rains pour down. Indonesians like to blame the government for their problems, but recently I've realized that the people are just as if not more backwards.

[@kudajingkrak4919]

People burning crops or waste is not unique to Indonesia. Even in USA, Canada, Australia, Europe, Brazil, still doing it.. When it goes big, Your media just calling it wild fires.

[@larkop6504]

Completely agree that it's not unique to Indonesia to think that would be ignorant of reality. We both know that last summer was very dry it was beautiful. When visiting Borobudur the surrounding countryside was like a Tinderbox. In Europe we used to burn farm waste, it's now illegal with the exception of the wet season to reduce spread of fire. In Jakarta it's mainly a combination of cars bikes and localized burning of rubbish. In Europe we collect localized waste, segregate it, and take it to waste disposal sites. Yes some waste still has to be burned however it's put into incinerators to reduce fumes. In terms of the forest fires I understand it's seasonal and sometimes they are started naturally however if new plantations are created there will be a slash and burn approach to clear the land​@@kudajingkrak4919

[@Paulkjoss]

Nice little random video once again @asianometry 😊Thank you 👍🏼

[@ajmosqueda6698]

this time i think it's good that the Philippines is "geographically isolated" 😅 i remember in 2019, indonesia's forest fire haze reaches cebu province.

[@randomly_random_0]

*Philippines: what haze?*

[@alastairward2774]

They need to run the region on something better than a PS2.

[@conor7154]

Just run Asia on an emulator and set the draw distance to infinite.

[@Gameboygenius]

​@@conor7154 Thanks for the tip. I tried this on my RTX5090 prototype and Singapore now looks *more amazing than ever!* The only complaint is the dev's artistic decision to not include trash on the street, which reduces the realism imo. As we all know, this was initially a decision taken to reduce the poly count and allow a stable 60 FPS even on low spec systems. But ever since then this has become a staple of the franchise. I know I can just use the patch by the anonymous modder "K L". But maybe it's time to include the change in the official release as well.

[@ali_alami]

🤣🤣

[@wootle]

Excellent channel, I'm glad I found it. Look forward to seeing your other vids. In an ocean of nonsense and crap sometimes the algorithm hits gold. Please have my sub!

[@JasperKlijndijk]

The compulsory pension fund of the Forrest service in the Netherlands is investing in Indonesian palm oil companies

[@conor7154]

lol socialism is great. You get that and absurdly high food prices.

[@JasperKlijndijk]

@@conor7154 you read my comment and truelly think the pension part is the problem? I wish you the best lol

[@Wkwkwkland904]

​@@JasperKlijndijk as an palm oil farmer in indonesia considering we don't give new permit for new plantation anymore i think its good investment.

[@harukrentz435]

​@@JasperKlijndijk the forest fires have been happening long before the booming of palm oil industry.

[@SonnyDarvishzadeh]

This was quite an informative video! Thank you for making it. I lived in KL for 6 years (2010-2016) and while there were occasional hazes, they were never like 100% from October to July. Lucky years? Not sure. But I was always baffled by the lack of responsibility or enforcement by Indonesia.

[@secrets.295]

Nuh. The haze peaked from 2014-2016. I remember it well because I graduated in 2016 and right after I graduated it improved a lot. These days there is still haze but not nearly to the level u see in 1997 and 2014-2016. If anything u lived there during the unlucky years. Haha.

[@gus473]

Great episode Jon! Tough problem in many parts of the world, and likely to persist for many reasons including politics! 😎✌️

[@UnitSe7en]

In this part of the world, Timor is pronounced like "Teemore" with emphasis on the elongated I.

[@deidresable]

Teemo

[@VestigeFinder]

league of legends brain rot

[@caver38]

Indonesia is the main culprit for the haze , and does little or nothing to punish all those burning forests etc

[@HimanshuSingh-lk2my]

There is similar case in India where stuble burning in Punjab and Haryana is responsible for rise of pollution in Delhi NCR

[@ebx100]

I was in Delhi a few years ago, the "air quality" readings were well into the 600 range. The only restriction I heard about was the banning of firecrackers. Depressing!

[@HimanshuSingh-lk2my]

@@ebx100 it is a very touchy topic for farmers

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

@@ebx100 It isn't cos of Delhi, it's cos of the neighbouring states. And they refuse to do a thing. 🙄😑

[@ydid687]

The stubble burning is responsible for the temporary uptick in AQi it is the straw that breaks the camel's back Aqi is routinely in the "dangerous" or "very dangerous" or atleast in the poor range throughout the year But talking about the entire truth would shatter the misinformation bubble gobbling the incumbent party line wouldn't it Hehe

[@ShubhamMishrabro]

It is very serious issue​@@ebx100

[@BlahIdk-xj2tg]

Not SEA cause we don’t have that in PH.

[@mytech6779]

I have flown in haze so thick it was legally not suitable for visual navigation. It was from either Canada's or California's forest fires a couple years ago. (We got hit by one for two weeks then wind finally shifted to clear it and then the other source came in for a few weeks.) It was totally clear above 10,000feet, but due to an inversion layer 10k and below was a windless soup.

[@davidbastow5629]

Was it the 1997 incident that Indonesia first tried to blame on Australia? Or was it one of the later ones? I can remember laughing at the audacity of it - I was pretty young ;)

[@soberman1520]

really? i feel bad as indonesian

[@lukestevens6783]

Yeah - Singapore is not really known for its Antarctic southerlies. It's NZ that get to enjoy the smoke from here - after we've had a puff ourselves.

[@abcddef2112]

Australian faces similar conditions too because the real cause is El nino, forest fires happened in Australia too.

[@richardrick1014]

@@soberman1520, We remember vividly the Indonesian Vice President said "For 11 months, they enjoyed nice air from Indonesia and they never thanked us", I remember it became a meme and among our peers we jokingly said how low can the elected Vice President be, and it reflects the general retardation in Indonesia.

[@av_oid]

@@abcddef2112but Australia rarely now uses fire to clear forests to create farmland. The fires in Australia are either controlled burns (minor) or wild fires.

[@gumpyoldbugger6944]

I visited Singapore in 1997 during the time of the haze.....it was nasty, you could taste it when you went out

[@harryviking6347]

I would say it happens here in Thailand from around new year. I always arrive in Thailand around October/November and there is not much haze. After new year, it is bad air all over. I am considering to go other places if this continues.

[@noahkoh-baby]

Awesome reporting and analysis. ❤

[@ianendangan7462]

In Metro Manila Philippines we rarely experience haze sourced from other countries. As of today its very clear because of the easterly winds from China and Russia

[@wootle]

Karaoke and fiestas in the haze. Along with another 10,000 beauty pageants 😂

[@xXxSkyViperxXx]

instead of smoke and haze, its the rain and super typhoons that want to come to ph

[@silverholde1230]

The bad news is we get typhoons here every year. The good news the typhoons clean our air like somekind of natural air filter whatever area the typhoon hits

[@KnownAsLeo]

There's a similar issue in Thailand with their post-crop "burning season" that starts round January each year and lasts a few months. Chang Mai and Bangkok get very smoky.

[@natthaphonhongcharoen]

Here in Thailand, old people still think it's just morning fog

[@conor7154]

I wouldn’t attribute that to old age, I think that’s just being stupid and somehow uninformed of your surroundings after 80 years lol.

[@chuckygobyebye]

Ha! Morning fog that stays around for a week.

[@xponen]

fog reach the greatest amount in the morning (either one that came from pollution or water vapour) due to ''atmospheric inversion'' where the surface gets colder than the air above, when the surface heats up, then normal air circulation resume and morning fog dissipate.

[@xponen]

@@conor7154 smoke in haze has the same whitish colour as ''cloud'' that tropical trees put out in the morning, it became more confusing during cloudy season when the morning will be cold as result of diffuse lighting condition thru-out the day.

[@nil0bject]

can confirm, majority of "old" people are uneducated

[@eamonjun]

Surprisingly interesting topic. Never knew about this since I live in the UK and the main news focuses on Mediterranean fires and US fires.

[@crasho1980]

I think there i have not read the study on the cost to clear of the land based on your description there is an issue with the study as it only consider the cost without considering the value of the wood on top of it. sumatra and borneo is a known area for high value hardwood. the benefit of cutting the woods would outweight the cost of clearing it properly. burning them would be a major loss cosidering cut wood can be sold directly while cpo plantation would need 3 years to start producing. as you said the condition usually happened during dry season and natural occuring fire can happened and we see this happening in US and Australia as well in much bigger scale. i do not say that cut and burn does not happened but it wouls not the the only possible reason/source of fire.

[@arunshukla5664]

This was a great video, you should also make a video about the haze in north India.

[@joseenoel8093]

Great info saw a nature doc on Indonesia, incredible! I'm a chick forest technician from Montreal, wish they'd do Sylviculture everywhere, things can be fixed! We care about out health, never touch palm oil, I was in Corsica in Nov., funny 2 buds asked if it was hazy but nay, had beautiful weather, but too hot at night though, big hotel duvets and heating on but we'd have preferred the A/C!

[@BenDover12366]

While traveling in Taiwan last April I often wondered if the prevalent yellow haze over the populated west coast was domestic or from mainland China.

[@togume]

Traveling there was so strange because people wouldn’t acknowledge the air pollution, and many people seemed to not know what a blue sky is. Bali, Vietnam, Singapore, HK, etc, etc. Looking around, it didn’t seem like a “puzzle” - burning garbage, burning agriculture, burning nature to clear it, small motorcycle engines. It was pretty sad to see such a beautiful region so severely polluted.

[@D3R3bel]

Yeah man, Singapore is clearly burning forests to clear land for agriculture. Nobody here will ever deny the haze, in fact it is a conversation topic everytime it happens, and I can garuntee you we have no part in it. We are victims of neighbouring countries.

[@togume]

@@D3R3bel Thank you for engaging in this discussion. I'd like to clarify my previous statement. My intention wasn't to accuse Singapore of specific environmental practices. It's clear that pointing fingers, especially at Singapore for land clearing, wouldn't be constructive. What strikes me, though, is the defensive tone of your response. It's important to remember that none of us are mere victims in the global context. Our world is deeply interconnected, and the actions of one nation invariably affect others. This brings to mind the concept of the "Bystander Effect," where inaction in the face of a challenge can be ethically problematic. Consider the position of Singapore, a prosperous nation that has successfully navigated numerous challenges. This success includes the ability to import food from countries like Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, and Brazil. It's worth pondering how this food is produced. Often, it involves practices like burning land for agriculture, a necessity dictated by various factors. I urge you to reflect on these points, not to induce guilt, but to foster a sense of global responsibility. Shifting from a victim mindset to one of proactive contribution can make a significant difference. My message is rooted in kindness and a belief in our collective potential. By coming together as a global community and acknowledging our roles, we can work towards solutions that uplift everyone, making the world a better place for all.

[@D3R3bel]

@@togume Firstly, I'm defensive because you opened up with a snarky commentary on how people from SEA don't acknowledge the air pollution and don't know what a blue sky even is. Secondly, the issue here is not regional food supply. Slash and burn operations in SEA are in the majority of cases done to facilitate oil palm production, and the consumption comes from countries outside of SEA. So if you want to start pointing fingers, start with the largest importers of oil palm, that being India, China, the EU, and the USA, with India holding the lions share of oil palm consumption. Those countries and by extension the citizens who consume by far the most of the products created by slash and burn hold infinitely more responsibility than a country like singapore. Maybe time to start telling Indians to lay off the palm oil, that would actually have an effect on slash and burn. Singapore is so far off the list as countries responsible for this ecological disaster that happens multiple times a year, I don't even know why you bothered to add the country in, and of kind of shows your ignorance in the topic, alongside saying that we don't acknowledge air pollution. You cite the bystander effect, yet when it comes down to it what can we do? We don't really contribute to the consumption of oil palm, and when it comes to enforcing slash and burn practices, those are sovereign matters we have zero say in, and all we can do is criticize and complain to the government's who adamantly refuse to stop because theres profit and corruption to be made. This is the equivelent of watching a murderer with a gun shoot someone and you blaming bystanders for not interfering. There's a whole lot of nothing we can actually do. Proactive contribution can only be given by people with the actual power to affect change, either the countries that import the product to reduce the demand, or the people that produce the product to take more responsibility over the supply, like the EUs efforts to ban products made through deforestation. You wouldn't ask a poor person to donate to charity, so why would you ask somebody from a country with zero say and little effect on the issue to start contributing? Since this is all about global acknowledgement and all that according to you, time to start blaming the right people and figuring out the real causes, instead of seeing a simple word like "agriculture" causing slash and burn and forming your entire worldview around it. Your poor assumption that agriculture meant food already made your moral high ground shaky from the start.

[@togume]

@@D3R3bel Thanks for taking time to respond! That was my lived experience, literally, everywhere. Any time I asked about it people would not engage, or say that it was normal. Are you saying that I'm making that up? How is that snarky? It's like me living in Colombia and denying that there's a huge drug problem at the core of many complex issues, which most people don't engage with. I'm sorry you're offended by my bringing up Singapore - again, it was my lived experience that the pollution was horrible in all of those places. It was very sad to be the Gardens by the Bay with a thick haze and ocre sky. Are you denying that the pollution is bad in Singapore? Did I say that the pollution was originating primarily in Singapore? I get that you want to defend a country you hold dear, but getting upset and pointing fingers and having a victim mentality won't get you anywhere. It's great that you know all that about the causes of this complex issue. Let's not just point fingers, but also discuss solutions, and our direct or indirect involvement in it. I do, and we should, blame a bystander for not doing anything. The onus is on all of us for taking responsibility. I do place some of the blame on a poor person that stands by and does nothing when morally/ethically/physically wrong things happen. But not the whole blame; we must also look at society, government, globalization, etc, etc, etc to understand the why and then how we can address it. AND, we must also place some of the blame on ourselves. Waiting on "others" to figure things out is a sure-fire way to not improve things. So, again, I apologize if I offended you, that was not the intent. If you read back, I stated my objective truths and my opinions. How would you, from Singapore, push to improve this situation for everyone? How can you leave the place better than you found it?

[@D3R3bel]

@@togume >anytime I would ask about it, people would not engage. This is the type of stuff people constantly talk about. Everytime it happens, 1. There is a literal haze warning on the news and on a website literally called haze. gov. sg telling us precisely how bad it is, it also includes an index of what outdoor activities can be conducted during a haze depending on the level of warning. 2. It's the type of thing that constantly making the rounds in discussions between family and friends everytime it gets too bad, and I can almost garuntee you if on a day where the haze index was horrible you went up to somebody and asked them what's with the haze, they'll happily tell you all about who's causing it, but of course not everyone can or will go into detail because you are just asking randomly about it. I don't know where you've been, but probably not singapore. Or if you thought that your experience in one SEA nation extended to every other, that's even worse. >How would you, from singapore, push to improve the situation from singapore I don't know dude. I've literally told you we can't. We complain to our government and our government complains to countries like Indonesia. Countries like Indonesia then tell us how clueless we are and that we get good weather half the year, so what's the problem? Maybe we should push for our government to scramble military action next time, since you're so intent on proving we can do something. You've stated nothing but subjective truths. You were wrong about agriculture and as a result assumed it was a regional food crisis, and made massive assumptions about at least one of the societies you've mentioned. You continue to pretend like there's some greater purpose to your call to action despite now knowing there's not much that can be done from here. Global responsibility doesn't just mean that everyone should contribute to helping, it means that the right people have to be blamed so that action can follow. As it stands, you have major consumers (India, china) who will happily ignore international call to actions, and producers like Indonesia who are corrupt and unchanging. Asking a nation like singapore to help will do exactly zero things. This is the type of situation only sanctions or literal military action will solve. How far are you willing to go, or are you so naive to think that this can all be solved peacefully? Oil palm is a multi billion dollar industry and the major export of countries like Indonesia and Malaysia . It is their literal lifeblood. It doesn't matter what you do, industries like this don't suddenly go away, they will find any loophole possible to survive.

[@psd993]

These challenges faced by other countries in getting indonesia to do something about the problem can offer several key insights for environmental activists elsewhere. Specifically in the West, where the use of feel-good buzzwords and phrases like "decentralization", "democratization", "sovereignity of the locals" or "opposing top-down power structures" are used to push some random useless policy without much room for critique. Malaysia, Vietnam, Singapore etc were all affected by the problem, identified a major cause very early on in this fight, (and I'm sure even Indonesian Govt knew what it had to do) but were entirely powerless to do much because the decision making had been too decentralized. Moving forward, people should recognize that environmental problems and broadly any other issues relating to the global commons, should be governed by democratic structures that are at least big enough to include everyone directly affected by the problem (in this case, air pollution in a region). "decentralizing" any further will only lead to injustice. Any claims that those affected by the environmental problem asking those causing the problem to stop are are "imposing their will" through "top down power structures" are nothing but a fancy repackaging of selfish motivations using progressive sounding language. Environmentalists should broadly reject any claims of "sovereignity being infringed" because a country is being asked to do something about a problem like this. Telling them exactly how to go about doing so, might be an infringement of their sovereignity, but not simply telling them that something should be done. Setting these sorts of "boundary conditions" must be distinguished, and recognized as a valid right, as opposed to micromanaging another state's internal policy.

[@davidanderson9664]

Great video as always Thanks D.A. NYC

[@aureavita8653]

It's unfortunate and horrible how deep corruption has gone and immobilized the Indonesian government, and unfortunately the future doesn't bode well for any vision of improvement on the situation.

[@aaronlimeuchin7352]

I still remember during 2003 or 2004, my primary school, SK (2) Simpang Lima at Klang was shut down due to haze and my mom had to go to her school, SK Teluk Gadung to collect her stuff. I and my younger sis followed her and from the third floor of the school building, we could see that the haze was a bit heavy even though it was during daylight morning. Though it was a concerning moment for all adults involved especially my mom due to the haze could have consequences for kids health, it was one of the happiest moment of my life as I don't need to go to school for a few days 😂😂🤣🤣. LOL.

[@paulchi2956]

Northern Thaiand checking in here in a valley where we get smoke from fires in Thailand, Laos, Myanmar. It’s every dry season from Feb to end of May. It sucks and no one is doing anything about it.

[@Richardincancale]

0:33 Loved staying at the Sands Bay Hotel a few times. The view from the top deck was fantastic - no haze for my visits! Beijing was great for haze!

[@marcd6897]

Thank you very much for this very valuable information you kindly shared with the world. It is a better place now 🤪

[@mathman80]

Which months did you go?

[@Richardincancale]

@@mathman80 Usually in May I think, for a regular trade show.

[@Richardincancale]

@@marcd6897 I’d post some photographs across the sea if YT allowed it!!

[@mimireich]

Night post 10 PM in my country time. Also the topic are pretty interesting.

[@ubermenschblyat4608]

You're in south east asia by any chance ?

[@mimireich]

@@ubermenschblyat4608 yup, Indonesia precisely. We're still in the election tense this week and environmental haze are problem here on daily basis.

[@punditgi]

Excellent report! 😊

[@breaky73]

Haze (because of slash-and-burn) is also a major issue in northern mainland SEA. Thailand, Laos, Myanmar and Vietnam all have issues with severe air pollution during February to May. This is the driest and hottest part of the year in mainland SEA. So far, little seems to be done about it, although I heard Thailand is stepping up to control it. People say it got worse over the years because of (many of them Chinese owned) companies encouraging farmers to burn so to (illegally) clear land for banana and rubber plantations. Honestly I think little can be done to stop it, since, like Asianometry said, in his video, there's no good alternative.

[@MS940]

Punitive import tariffs should be set for Indonesian palm oil to make destructive business weaker or to stop it at all. It is used in many products because the price though it has good alternatives. Laws doesn't mean anything if not enforced.

[@janeblogs324]

5:26 "wildfires" so at least as early as 1997 man has been calling man made fires Wildfires

[@teytreet7358]

There are laws but 0 enforcement

[@kikolatulipe]

Excellent research !

[@litozulueta6013]

The haze comes from Indonesian forest fires caused by swidden farmers. Am a Filipino journalist who regularly goes to SG for media coverage and visits to friends, and at one time the haze was so bad I was coughing terribly and had to go to a local clinic. The haze is a constant irritant in relations between SG and Jakarta.

[@Ace-zw1db]

Wow.. that bad?! I can't imagine. So how long that haze would disappear?

[@litozulueta6013]

@@Ace-zw1db There was haze in the entire duration of my visit, 10 days.

[@Ace-zw1db]

@@litozulueta6013 😳😨😓

[@cpt_bill366]

I wish you would expand on the subject of palm oil. I still don't understand why it is so lucrative, useful, needed, economical, beneficial to manufacturing, etc. In the US, consumers have only recently been warned to avoid food products with palm oil for environmental reasons. It doesn't make much sense to me considering how much of a success rapeseed (canola) oil has been. What makes growing a whole palm tree on the other side of the planet better than a flower in Canada for food oil production in the US?

[@wenderis]

Because of productivity. Like many other things, there is nothing inherently wrong about the product itself but rather the practices of the companies and plantations. If done right, palm oil can be far more environmentally and economically sustainable than any other plant based oil.

[@mfaizsyahmi]

Because no matter how you want to frame it, you can't deny the basic fact that palm oil produce more oil per acre than any other oils. If you want to produce the same amount of oil from any other sources, you'd need to cut down more forests, like the Amazon cut down for soybean oil.

[@mimimimeow]

Palm produces at least 5x more oil yield per land use, and they have certain properties favorable for use as oleochemicals. This beats every other vege oil out there by lightyears. Few countries could satiate the world. Sure, the enviro impact is not ideal, but had you replaced the demand with any other oil, you'd make 10x more landscape damage elsewhere, with substantially more emissions per unit yield.

[@darkjudge8786]

Basic economics. A farm worker in the US earns over 100x more than a peasant in palm oil countries. The fact you don't understand that is why you are in the peasant country

[@cpt_bill366]

I never said anything about US production. That's comparing apples & oranges. I asked for a comparison with rapeseed oil (canola), which has been a big success for Canada, and is healthier than other veg oils.@@darkjudge8786

[@sportnik23]

The "Haze" being discussed here would be better referred to as "Smog", a term coined in the 60's for the thick pollution that often hunk over LA. Haze is really a condition caused by water vapor in the air that somewhat limits visibility at a distance, but less so than fog. Smog is a portmanteau of "Smoke" and "Fog", and using it makes clear the distinction.

[@yohannessulistyo4025]

That 2014 act is a very important step in recognising that Singapore will also act on questionable profits that blew back at them. After that, it is up to the pretty much auto-piloting inaction of Indonesian government of President SBY's last tenure with VP Boediono to do something. Previously, he allowed unhinged coal extraction from all over Indonesia that helped fuel the economic boom of early 2010s. Then he also let the palm oil industry grow unchecked, including the investor of that damned airline Adam Air that switched business after he grew tired selling cheap tickets. Claiming achievement for "economic boom" that the government themselves can't explain, tax, or even regulate properly is pretty much the signature of crony capitalism that fuels what western media call "the economic miracle" of Indonesia. I have a lot of receipts from people back in late 2000s and early 2010s that tried to sell me into that environmentally destructive BS hyped sector super hard - including some Malaysians and Singaporeans.

[@weirdshit]

There were a hell lot of small scaled farmers slash and burn during my 2000+ visit. Some of the companies doing that were those belonging to the politicians, which was the reason why they have a laissez-faire attitude towards haze. Even if it was harming their own citizens. Indonesia didnt even have a basic highway back then.

[@robtickner]

I’m here in Vietnam, every home just burns their rubbish at the front of there house, all day, everyday..

[@Zoulstorm]

Disgusting

[@robtickner]

💯

[@thetigerii9506]

I remember in 2015 when i was taking my national exam, we all had to do it in classrooms with the hastily installed standalone aircons because the haze was too bad😂 hope it never becomes as bad as that again

[@forcexjr1566]

Yes I was serving NS back then. We had to wear masks back then. Coupled with all the LBVs and standard gears, it was absolute nightmare.

[@Rabiusa]

Not mentioned as a major source of smog ("haze" is too nice a term) is the agricultural practice of burning away rice stubble after harvest. This practice appears to be a main source of seasonal air pollution in countries like India and Thailand. The Indian government sought to ban the practice recently but met with massive protests from farmers, since the method is quick, easy and cheap (like slash and burn of forests in Indonesia). Air pollution must be addressed as the cost to public health is already terrible and will only worsen.

[@lenowoo]

I remember this issue being talked everyday in the news

[@yeeyw]

Corpo lobbying is BAD in indonesia. My dad has personal experience with it. He was appointed to be a port master and he is vehemently agaisnt lobbying from corpos. Quickly rat out problem on sub standard ships that didn’t meet the minimum requirement. And the corpos didnt dare to fight him fairly because my dad military background The corpos tried multiple times to frame my dad in multiple ways. One of them is blatant defamation by making rumors to move the public. They failed multiple time until my dad suddenly dismissed from his position and unceremoniously at that. (I wonder who did it lmao)

[@LuisAldamiz]

Massive systematic deforestation in Indonesia to build palm oil plantations and such. Just stating the obvious. Haze is something else.

[@abcddef2112]

No its el nino. This is why Indonesia terminated coperation with WWF Indonesia, not too long ago, they were blaming palm oil plantations when the fire actually started in the forest they are supposed to monitor. The dry condition makes it happen so dry matter in forests set alight. Australia face a similar problem during el nino.

[@operandexpanse]

@@abcddef2112almost every time I go to Malaysia the intense haze is there. It is caused by farmers burning crops in Indonesia. We all know this. El Niño doesn’t happen every year.

[@abcddef2112]

@@operandexpanse It was not indonesian farmers but Malaysian and Singaporean palm companies, or in 2020, WWF Indonesia lol. The one that holds the concessions are responsible for the fires that started in their area. That can combust spontaneously due to dry weather.

[@mrj475]

Its indonesian

[@LuisAldamiz]

I wouldn't talk of "farmers" but rather agroindustry.

[@MrScientifictutor]

A great story i was completely unaware of.

[@marktn9851]

We raised concern about haze to Indonesia, no action. Same as Town Council when we raised concern about corridor cluttering, bicycles parking all over void deck…

[@GlobalDrifter1000]

Starts in February in northern Thailand.

[@Handi_Suyadi]

Indonesian here. The haze actually affected populations at some provinces in Sumatra and Borneo. So not just Malaysia and Singapore that become victim. Most Indonesian widely believe the government isn't showing seriousness on combating haze, as the government rarely punish harshly the prerpetrator.

[@HoshikawaHikari]

We’ll see later this year

[@the_primal_instinct]

4:33 "Savage Victor" is one hell of a name

[@androidbox3571]

It is no puzzle, agricultural burnoff, distinctly seen on satellite imageary.

[@seanoconnor8843]

We used to have pollution here in England. Everything was black when I grew up and when it got foggy, you couldn't see to the middle of the road. The buses had a special fog horn. I do remember some of my friends taking the opportunity to steal anything and everything. Rascals 😅

[@_tsu_]

Literally the same thing as the Delhi smog problem. That is caused by farmers in Punjab burning stubble. But the highly federalized nature of India means nothing gets done. And the problem still persists.

[@GroovyVideo2]

People forget how bad air pollution was in the USA before the clean air act and EPA - much better now - hope air stays clean

[@gregorymalchuk272]

The smog had already lifted by the late 1980s. Everything since has been an attempt to stealth-ban the internal combustion engine.

[@SaintFluffySnow]

uncontrolled forest fires (excluding deliberate fires of crop-clearing practices of controlled-burning) occur in many regions worldwide more than in the past

[@Ace-zw1db]

Meanwhile in the Philippines... Typhoon: No haze shall come to my homeland.😎

[@goldnutter412]

How hot has it been for you ? here in Perth it has been unbearable, my aircon died last year.. good times.

[@wrt8883]

Haze show in Cambodia near Thailand / Cambodia border. Last 2 weeks

[@clintcowan9424]

Wait for the volcanic eruptions in the area. Pompeii 79 AD comea to mind

[@easwarsankar]

It is caused basically by clear burning for palm plantations in Indonesian forests. But most of them are owned by Singaporean investors

[@matzmn]

The Singapore and Malaysia government should go after their own plantation companies that carry out this practice in Indonesia.

[@Al-ng2wn]

Is pretty simple, enforce a low that forces any land clearing done by governments. Nobody is allow to land clear.

[@mustardofdoom]

Thank you for talking about this issue. Indonesia's behaviors are disappointing, for sure. Really sours the mood when you think about climate change as a global issue. Big fan of your semiconductor videos, but even more excited for these other topics about SE Asia.

[@dannymac6368]

Ahh, Asianometry’s least likely letter legend. 🧐🤗

[@williamwidjaja850]

Thank you for the video, I live here and i cant breath in all the countries indonesia, malaysia, singapore

[@Random_internet_buddy]

The haze had already been reached the mind and prospective of national politicians creates confusion miscommunication throughout southeast asian countries towards China and western countries.

[@kikolatulipe]

@10:10 Not sure that small plantations are the cause of the haze !

[@Numba003]

It would be tough to live immediately downwind from a large smoke-producing country. I didn't even know this was a serious issue for SE Asia. Thank you for teaching me something new today. I hope they manage to reach some kind of resolution. God be with you out there everybody. ✝️ :)

[@geezzzwdf]

when i was a kid we would have to put our heads down on our desks. and rest . but this is way worse

[@diebesgrab]

As an American with family in Singapore, who I visit fairly regularly, I’ve been hearing about haze from Indonesia pretty much my whole life. Never knew it was mostly driven by palm oil plantations. Definitely going to think twice about buying any palm oil products from now on.

[@abcddef2112]

Because the real cause is el nino conditions.

[@kodetumbuh]

You can't escape that product imo almost all our product we consume use that oil

[@paulmoir4452]

The problem is that palm oil melts at around 35 C, giving that "melts in the mouth" feel. Previously hydrogenated vegetable oils (cheap, awesome) were used for this but it turns out (long, super interesting story) they were really unhealthy. Wonder were margarine went? That was it: it turns out we were killing people with it, so whistle, shove aside. So what do you do: can't use hydrogenated vegetable oils any more but your consumers want and need that mouthfeel. Solution: palm oil. I mean, how else do you get an Oreo with crunchy cookies but a smooth "icing" in the middle?

[@TheDexsword]

​@@paulmoir4452 yeah consumer sadly prefer taste the health. Why fast food still a thing

[@paulmoir4452]

@@TheDexsword I don't really know about the health for palm oil. Presumably it's OK? But what it replaced was unfortunately unhealthy. People like food that tastes good. It's really as simple as that.

[@Jaggerbush]

I've been to Singapore - never noticed. Pittsburgh got hazed by Canadian fires this year. Awful.

[@acmelka]

Bangkok is like Beijing was 20 years ago when they still burned coal for heat.