Space-Food History (Star Trek Lore)

[@LordBloodraven]

Kirk: Romulan Ale Picard: Earl Grey Sisko: Raktajino Janeway: Coffee, Black Archer: … … … whatever Chef was serving.

[@calanon534]

Kirk: Pussy. Lots of it. Picard: More refined pussy. Sisko: THE HEARTS OF HIS ENEMIES! Janeway: The flesh of anyone that gets in her way. Archer: The ass of the Temporal Agents and other beyond-his-control fuckery people, that plow his.

[@pts5217]

Decker, Sulu, Checkov, and me: Lt Ilia in her V’Ger outfit (or better yet, out of it)

[@SMey54]

Archer was an iced tea guy.

[@matthewmccoll185]

Well i mean, He was the only one who captained a vessel that did not have food replicators.

[@nottsork]

Archer Hopes that his steak wasnt his beagle in an emergency !!!!!

[@astyanyx5929]

The reason replicated food was easily distinguished from real food was actually caused by limited memory storage per item. A complete scan of a food item would be an enormous and complex file and would require transporter level systems to assemble. To offset this the replicator files used sample averaging to make a smaller file size by using the average data for that item repeated over and over to make the entire item. Because of this there was no taste variation in replicated food items and the replicated food items tended to be blander because the more complex flavors had been averaged out of the file.

[@amm019]

That.........actually makes sense! Kinda reminds me of some sci-fi shows related to computers and digital worlds talk about why the real world is more real than the digitally recreated one: because the real world has vastly more "data" than the digital one could ever contain or hold.

[@johnwang9914]

It would've been easy to record statistics on variations and reproduced variety with a random number generator within the appropriate probabilities. If anything, the premise that replicated foods were all the same is more an issue of the lack of imagination of the writers.

[@socialmedia4637]

It All tastes like chicken

[@singletona082]

So basically... jpeg vs BMP.

[@Sgt_Glory]

@@singletona082 And prepare for gastric issues if your food is compressed as a gif.

[@waz207]

Military vet here; Current day MREs range from a few being pretty damn good...to most bring ok/edible, to a few where I’d rather eat the packaging it came in... The Chili Mac MRE is still to this day the best one I’ve ever had (and typically was the first one grabbed when they got handed out) Egg and Cheese breakfast burrito is TERRIBLE My best and worst MRE experiences...

[@CertifiablyIngame]

Me and a friend bought some from a surplus store once and he really enjoyed a chili one. Is MRE the brand or what they are actually known as? (Because I think the ones we had were labeled something else.)

[@grandsome1]

@@CertifiablyIngame MRE, stands for Meal, Ready-to-Eat. It's their military designation. Tough, I wonder if soldiers don't funny alternative meaning for the acronym.

[@killbot1974]

Wayne Sasuta, omelette with ham is the worst mre they ever came up with.

[@waz207]

HonkeyKong...thankfully I never experienced that one personally, tho some squad mates of mine did and were sick for 2 days afterward.

[@killbot1974]

I had it once. It smelled like cat food, but I was really hungry. Needless to say, the things that came rocketing out of my lower end were unspeakable

[@shingshongshamalama]

I can only imagine that TOS' cubes are some kind of weird intersection of hipster retro culture and pragmatic utilitarianism. "Hey, we made a molecular resequencer that can make food taste like ACTUAL FOOD!" "But why does it make everything into little blocks of clay?" "Oh we just left the default settings on." "Y'know these look kinda like astronaut food." "Did someone say _20th Century Culture_?" "Sold."

[@calanon534]

That, or, it was "easier" for the systems to make the food into cubes, without utensils. I imagine these "low power/low matter consumption" meals, the plates were even technically edible, and the "paper" in the paper cups was some kind of specially sequenced bamboo with a sequenced beeswax coating. Given the primitiveness of the systems, and their power drain, crew were also likely rationed (like, data caps on your cell plan) in a way, and could only have a certain "mass/volume" of highly refined foodstuffs for any one period of time.

[@starcloakstarside9719]

shingshongshamalama Contrary. Ah, but you forget, in the episode -The Trouble With Tribbles,- Captain Kirk orders a Chicken Sandwich with Coffee. Although what pops out of the other end is a bunch of tribbles on a plate and a coffee mug, there are plenty of other TOS episodes depicting the replication of actual foods. It was obviously easier and less costly to produce nutrient cubes, or perhaps the cubes were even alien recipes in some cases.

[@Tezunegari]

I see them as the ultimate finger food. You need no cutlery, they leave no grease or residue on your fingers/face, and they can be eaten at your workstation without the threat of damaging anything important.

[@fishwhistle4661]

@@Tezunegari That's what I figured. Since people had them so often in TOS, they must have been good, so I'm guessing some kind of alien fusion cuisine like how you can get hamburger-themed dumplings in restaurants today.

[@shauljonah6955]

If it looks like wood cube or clay I am going back to earth or another world with real food . Warp 8 now.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Fun fact relating to the astronaut food containers. In the movie Empire Strikes Back we see Luke open up a suitcase sized container on Dagobah, which contained various food compartments, including what looks like wafers or protein tubes, plus diced vegetables.

[@sheilaolfieway1885]

Back then that's what was thought to be the astronaut food of the future....And Lukes fighter was too small for a Replicator, plus it's star wars not star trek.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Well the nearest we ever here to a replicator in any SW sources is something called an 'autochef', anyway.

[@pointlessopinion611]

Probably bc he was some prehistoric parasite redden savage.

[@Kelmire1]

@Johnston Steiner Funniest Fact: Disneyland's Galaxies' Edge is a piece of woke shit, not worth the price of admission.

[@glitterboy2098]

actually according to Mark Hamill, it was a tacklebox filled with tictacs, sesame sticks, mini marshmellows, and other candy and snack foods. but was certainly meant to look like some form of scifi survival rations.

[@jamesk0ua]

In DS9 when Major Kira was leading the Cardasian resistance and had brought food replicators and she was chowing down on something. I believe it was Odo that asked her "how is the food?" She had a one word answer that said it all: "replicated".

[@calebleland8390]

A buddy of mine told me once about an agricultural class he was taking. They were talking about how there were a type of 3D printer that would take beef proteins and reproduce them into a full chunk of meat. In a way, we're almost there to the food replicators of Star Trek.

[@socialmedia4637]

Printing bacon 🥓. I like it!!

[@neilsanghvi5229]

Could just be a machine using meat glue - the bonding agent used to combine different cuts of meat to give the appearance of a single cut.

[@TheBType]

The dude who invented 3D printers admitted being inspired by replicators. And iPads are suspiciously similar to the Personal Access Data Display (PADD) in TNG, as well as variable touch screens similar to modern ones on phones and and voice-activated computers.

[@TheShivABC]

@@TheBType At that accord though you could say all tablets are suspiciously similar to the PADD, do a google search for the samsung penmaster, its a tablet that came out in 1992

[@roryedward2631]

Protien sequencing is pretty much a thing. But such things wont come into regular use until its really needed. Such as short food supply, extreme overpopulation (very close) or actual space exploration. (too expensive)

[@TacComControl]

The power requirement wasn't the Entire reason for Voyager's rationing of replicator use, though it did have a good bit to do with it. For one, they were short on antimatter fuel, which was required to maintain the reactor, so as they discovered more antimatter fuel sources, as well as grey-particle sources(basically just Stuff for the replicator to make Stuff out of), these rations were relaxed. It also had a lot to do with just how much power could be produced at all at any given time. If the ship was gonna travel at high warp on a constant basis in order to try to make it home before everyone on board was long dead, they'd be taxing the system a bit on the propulsion alone. Throw on a bunch of replicator requests happening throughout the day en masse and you have a recipe for a system overload, or at the very least, some power fluctuations. Like when your lights dim whenever you turn the dryer on. I would guess that replicating larger objects, such as what I believe exists as the "Shuttlecraft Build Kit"(Voyager kept losing shuttles, so they'd have to have replicated new ones, which I like to imagine replicate as a flat-pack box to be assembled by engineering crews), would involve the ship coming to a full stop while the components are replicated. I imagine similar things took place as the Delta Flyer's components were replicated(both times), and probably happened during ship repairs as well, not just to reduce the amount of power going through the ship for repair safety reasons, but also just because replicating such large amounts of components would be a bear on the system. I imagine that high-priority but not time sensitive things would be replicated during stop times as well, meaning that port calls would involve crews working their butts off to get the things they needed replicated for departments such as medical, engineering, even replacement uniforms and phasers. (And yes, replicators could be set up Not to replicate weapons, but given that we see plenty of phasers and compression rifles get destroyed, but the crew of Voyager always ends up having enough for most people, so yeah, I imagine with the right clearance, you could replicate such things, in much the same way that the Transporters, themselves replicators of a sort, could be set up to disable weapons as they beamed someone in) I dunno. Just a fun thought, and kinda gives a bit more worldbuilding in terms of what crew life on Voyager might have been like, "The moment we drop out of warp, replicate all the hyperspanners we need to replace all the ones we've broken, and also new uniforms for all the cadets who got their tops burnt in that plasma leak, etc". Kinda gives a bit more background to the idea of what shift workers on the crew might have been up to whenever Voyager was in orbit, the captain and first officer shmoozing with the locals.

[@andrewtaylor940]

Dear lord, now I am never not gonna see Ikea on the side of Shuttles. Or picture Paris and Harry kim sitting on the floor of the shuttle bay, parts all around them, trying to use a hypersonic allen key.

[@yunofun]

@@andrewtaylor940 You could still see that for Harry and Paris. They would have replicated components, not necessarily the entire shuttle. Assembly would still be required.

[@tbeller80]

@@andrewtaylor940 I wish they had mundane "day in the life" episodes like that on Star Trek. There's a photo on the internet of the cleaning crew at Paramount vacuuming Picard's bridge after filming. In-universe, somebody would actually have to do that from time to time. Somebody had to do inventories of all the weapons lockers, apply fresh paint after battles, feed Picard's fish, etc.

[@henrynorcrossii3363]

@@tbeller80 the Enterprise D was stated to be self cleaning. Not entirely sure how that works.

[@starcloakstarside9719]

Sarcastic. “Cadets who got their tops burnt in that plasma leak, etc.” I used to figure I’d be an engineer if I were in Starfleet, building/fixing the ship myself. Now that you bring that up, I have to say I’d rather be just supervising the female cadets as I make them fix the plasma leaks. Time to up the Parental Guidance rating for Star Trek, there are about to be a lot more boob scenes. Lol

[@Brando64]

"I shall try some of your burned replicated bird meat."

[@Marcus51090]

There was a young woman from Venus who’s body was shaped like a THANK YOU MR DATA! Lol

[@garbagebison511]

Worf...

[@Marcus51090]

Epic A.M. mr woof

[@HarPlayer]

Should have put " FRANK'S HOT SAUCE. PUT THAT SH#! ON EVERY THING! "

[@kathylessard604]

Your a jerk

[@dartharaneus67]

Replicator technology has got to be the single greatest technological innovation in the Star Trek universe. By virtue of what it can do, this invention solves nearly all of our material problems at both ends. It creates a loop between energy creating the physical ressources we need and the conversion back of said ressources's waste products back into energy to be stored and used again. No more material pollution, no more world hunger, no more stripping away our lands, forests, etc. It is so elegantly perfect, I could cry.

[@castafioreomg]

It's Vulcan tech

[@TymersRealm]

Got to love the strolling through the redesigned DS9 in STO.

[@SamaritanPrime]

It's good to see the dartboard still hanging in its place at Quark's bar.

[@optillian4182]

@@SamaritanPrime I once went to DS9 because I was curious. When I talked to Morn he told me a story, except I couldn't hear it because it activated a cutscene of the camera zooming out as text described Morn telling me the story. Guess the developers didn't want to ruin Morn's mystique.

[@SamaritanPrime]

@@optillian4182 And so, the running gag continues nearly 35 years later.

[@darthbaker0247]

@@SamaritanPrime I think you added an extra decade there. 35 five years ago it was 1985

[@SamaritanPrime]

@@darthbaker0247 I mean in-universe. DS9 was set in 2368-2375, and STO is set in 2409-2410. About 35 years.

[@sergeantseven4240]

You forgot, "There's Coffee in that nebula."

[@Corvus__]

Hazelnut?

[@leondyer3855]

@@Corvus__ black, I'm afraid

[@Corvus__]

@@leondyer3855 Hazelnut coffee can be black without flavored creamer.

[@leondyer3855]

@@Corvus__ can it really? I'm not a coffee officianado by any means but the only time I remember hazelnut in coffee was through hazelnut creamer

[@Corvus__]

@@leondyer3855 They make black hazelnut coffee. It nutty flavor isn't as strong, but it's obvious. And it's not sweet or creamy.

[@GeekFilter]

I imagine an aspiring replicator chef could actually introduce some fractal based algorithm into his stored meal program to create the illusion that the food isn't exactly the same every time. In fact, that's been my head canon since TNG. I'd imagine that's one of the first things they would do once the technology was perfected...add a little imperfection back into the process.

[@jameswilkes451]

Lmao, and then you get an entire lamb shank that is all bone or fat, or has bits of bone just clumped around by wt% hahaha. But I'm sure they'd have thought it through by then

[@lsamaknight]

@@jameswilkes451 That's a programming problem rather than an insurmountable problem. You'd obviously need to put some limitation on the degree of randomness

[@the_kraken6549]

Nice, I’m incorporating that it makes sense.

[@explosivemodesonicmauricet1597]

Well if that's the case just give out the decimals on the program and set an arbitrary range.

[@Logarithm906]

it's a good idea, but it would take a lot of dialing in. It reminds me of Apple's "shuffle" function on their old ipods. It was randomly shuffling, but what humans expect from randomness and what actually happens don't line up... So people complained that it wasn't random enough (because occasionally the same song would play multiple times in a short time). In the end Apple tweaked their "shuffling" so that once a song had been played, it didn't reoccur for several songs, thus making it "feel" more shuffled.

[@neilprice513]

In Star Trek the nutrients with each replicated meal are calculated to give you a completely balanced diet, protein, carbohydrate, sugar, fats are all regulated so you have the amount you need each day. This supposedly makes the food bland as the replicated foods are all flavoured to taste like "real" food. In the shows most of the time they don't taste like the real thing and the characters complain about it. It's like what we have with our chemically created foods, like sweets/candy, with fruit flavourings they are made to have a taste "LIKE" real fruit, but usually don't taste quite like the fruit they are supposed to taste like.

[@Quintinohthree]

The reason why fruit candies and the like tend to taste just not right is actually quite interesting. Usually the aroma of such foods is created by one or a few compounds, while the real aroma is a much more complex mixture. It's a bit like a choir whose main singer has to sing by themselves. You can tell it's the same song, but you can also tell it's not complete.

[@sheilaolfieway1885]

@@Quintinohthree Also in certain cases like banna's and watermelons and other fruit changed by selective breeding, some candies are flavoured to taste like older 'breeds' of fruit.

[@Sgt_Glory]

I remember an episode of TNG where Riker gets his hands on some eggs and makes everyone scrambled eggs. Most of the command staff find it horrible, except for him and Worf who scarf the lot of it down. Maybe they hadn't tasted real eggs before!

[@henrynorcrossii3363]

@@Sgt_Glory they were some kind of alien bird (maybe) eggs. Maybe the whole reason that the Xindi Avians went extinct is because their eggs were delicious.

[@Reddotzebra]

@@Sgt_Glory And in DS9 we find out that most people in the Federation find it disgusting to even handle raw meat. As someone with a degree in biomedical science I both agree with them and find meat delicious enough to not care what it contains before you cook it... =p

[@roribeedm]

Design schematics for the Constitution class and the tech manuals, described the "Food Slots" as small turbolifts that brought food up from the galley a deck below the mess hall. The cards that were inserted were basically "Meal 1" "Meal 2" "Meal 3" etc. This was the same case in the Constitution Refit, hence the galley and the food slots to send food to the mess hall. For replicators, they didn't actually need to dematerialize anything to be able to replicate anything. They were designed based off transporter technology and could use energy drawn directly from the warp reactor to create from the quark up anything that was requested as long as the structure of the requested material wasn't excessively complex, this is why Voyager limited replicator usage to maintain dwindling power supplies. Latinum for example had a very complicated atomic structure, hence it not being replicatable. As has been mentioned by others, food might have been limited in file size by using averages rather than duplicating every atom in exactly the same place as the source, but at the same time if a detailed enough file was obtained a replicator could theoretically create food that was indistinguishable from the original. The best way to get this kind of detailed pattern would actually be to dematerialize the food item using a transporter, copy the pattern to a padd or other data storage device, then rematerialize the original and using the data on the padd to replicate the food down to the last atom via a replicator. Of course all of this is based off the tech manuals, which have never been canon, so take it or leave it.

[@henrynorcrossii3363]

However if they were too have that complex of a file each and every time the food would taste exactly the same. Without any of the slight variations found in real cooking. Someone else suggested adding a randomizer to slightly alter the taste each time to make it less distinguished from real food.

[@Willifrex]

Yeah there have been a few books and documents on the subject. From ToS it suggests that proteins, carbs, and all the components of foods are stored in bays and when you order a meal its 3d printed to look like a dish and then turbolifted to the place of your choice. Sounds like cutlery was something kept in stowage or in the galleys for you to use to carry your food. Mr Scott's guide to the Enterprise pushed this from a turbolift to mini transporter technology so perhaps the process above just beamed to your plate. TNG of course just seems to require energy and could build food out of that lattice it stores in its databases. Fascinating really, I wonder if toilet technology improved too.

[@kaitlyn__L]

Didn't the TNG tech manual say the replicators were connected to tanks of hydrogen, carbon, oxygen and nitrogen (or "CHON")..? With some handwavey reference to being able to induce fusion between them for other elements but it's costlier. Or is that just the DS9 manual, to make the Cardassian replicators seem more primitive by comparison?

[@colinmoore7460]

As Anne McCaffrey said in one book, the problem with hunting for meat on a new world is that you could be dining on your host species.

[@artembentsionov]

Didn’t Trip once explain that everything that got flushed down the toilet or thrown into trash got recycled into useful items like clothing?

[@giladpellaeon1691]

And robots were made from recycled beer cans which had been made from recycled robots.

[@falloutguy8874]

Yea and they even showed a clip of him going to the mess hall and eating a piece of pie wile he explained it

[@brolydictcumberbatchmontou401]

Even LtCmdr Data was made from recycled shoes and popcans, ok i'm trolling.

[@BoopSnoot]

@@falloutguy8874 That chocolate pie used to be cake

[@TheBType]

Replicators tend to have “stored” undifferentiated matter (both biological and inorganic) that gets recycled a lot, because it’s vastly more energy-efficient then just creating something solid from pure energy which actually would be incredibly wasteful given the lack of a 1:1 ratio of mass to matter.

[@k1productions87]

One comment, there is a difference between MRE's and Emergency Rations (even today). MRE's really are not that bad, and are intended as (as the acronym suggests) meals, without having to carry a frakton of food with you. Emergency Rations on the other hand are (again as the name suggests) for emergencies, and are as small and dense as possible, for the sole purpose of keeping you alive (not necessarily healthy) in dire situations. MRE's are no doubt even better in the 24th Century than they are now, but Emergency Rations (which just look like jerky) are what has gotten worse.

[@KuraIthys]

I have some emergency rations in a bag behind me. I guess they come in various forms - these look like they're intended for emergency kits for stuff like plane crashes or liferafts on ships. In any event, this looks and tastes like some kind of really bland cake. Like, extremely stale shortbread or something. I mean, it's extremely hard, and I wouldn't want to eat a lot of it, but it tastes OK... I've eaten worse things... Still, it's not as impressive as it looks. By weight it's basically the same as having a chocolate bar on you. And I know which I'd rather eat. XD (in fact, the custom emergency food kit I put together from stuff that can be easily bought in a supermarket contains 4 chocolate bars simply because for their weight and volume they are extremely energy dense, unlike a lot of the other stuff you could carry around...)

[@Reddotzebra]

@@KuraIthys It's basically a mixture of something with a lot of energy calories and something to keep it from passing through your system too quickly. So sugar and sawdust basically.

[@kercchan3307]

@@Reddotzebra when your starving bland food tastes good

[@Reddotzebra]

@@kercchan3307 That stuff tastes like sponge cake, some variants are more sweet than others. The important thing is that it keeps you alert.

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@Reddotzebra I've also heard that the idea is to make it not too appetising, so people don't dip into them unless they absolutely have to? Hence emergency ration chocolate bars often being blander, chalkier etc than regular civilian ones. More like a compressed bar of cocoa powder and sugar than something that's been melted, tempered, etc.

[@Dalek97]

A bunch of ST writers, such as Ira Behr and Ronald D. Moore, hated replicators stating they utterly killed all story tension and that they were indicative that the Federation had utterly stagnated. Still I'd like one.

[@tedb.5707]

Hence the survival of the Picard family vineyards, preserving the traditions of making the real-thing.

[@DrewLSsix]

It just takes skilled writing to make it work. The issue is they never wanted the setting to get to different, each show seemed to be set as some idealistic version of their time it was created in with all the implications of their technology largely ignored.

[@sheilaolfieway1885]

Eh hydroponics and clone meat sounds like a better idea. P.S. we already can clone portions of meat...

[@bcn1gh7h4wk]

replicators still require power. you HAVE virtually infinite amounts of power, as long as the warp core remains running. there have been episodes where the main ship/station suffers damage, and replicators and top-level commodities are offline.

[@neilsanghvi5229]

Really interesting - I remember an episode where Michael Eddington was telling Sisko about tasting fresh tomatoes when he joined the Marquis, and Sisko couldn't care less, even though he cooks with fresh ingredients himself.

[@World_Theory]

I think that there's another interesting application of replicator technology… Virtual, simulated cooking! You'd need a pretty powerful computer to run a live simulation, and a library of scanned raw ingredients, as well as a holographic cooking station (or at least some 3D goggles and controllers for interacting with the simulation). But you could potentially create meals in a virtual simulation, by simulating the chemistry of cooking, and then materialize the virtual result. You need not even adhere to the limits of physical tools! You could wave a virtual wand to create an even heating effect, or a cooling effect, or use a 3D mask (an alpha layer used for targeting a region of an image, in graphic arts) to apply those and other effects to food. You could use a script (or are they called “subroutines”), to dynamically select a part of a dish to apply effects, like one that only targets the fat in a piece of meat, or one that evenly selects the skin, or one that selects the yolk in an egg, which you could then instruct the simulation to keep from going over or under a certain temperature. You could outright use virtual telekinesis to turn your food over with impossible gentleness and ease! If your worried about your food being over cooked from residual heat, you could instantly sap heat from it until it reaches a specified temperature. There are no limits! You could even sample the food as you go with a tool the selects a small region to replicate without needing to make the whole thing. If you wanted to, you could set up a replicator to produce scent particles being emitted into the “air” of the simulation! …I want a replicator so badly, now…

[@that_one_libra419.9]

Same.

[@mockingjay29]

Ok that sounds awesome and now I want one

[@MandalorV7]

It’s impossible that there was only one cook on the Enterprise. We’re talking about a crew of what 100+ plus, I’m guessing. Maybe one chef for the Captain and bridge officers/VIPs. But the rest are getting what the line cooks make. My dad served as a cook on a helicopter carrier. He has told me a lot about what goes into keeping a ship crew fed.

[@XX-sp3tt]

Tell us more.

[@MandalorV7]

X X I’ll tell you one of the funniest stories my dad told me. So for breakfast they would cook the crew eggs to order. There would be a big griddle and the crew in a long line. My dad asked this one crewman what do you want (fried or scrambled). The crewman said whatever you feel like cook. My dad put two raw eggs on his tray and said that’s what I feel like, next. The crewman looked to my dad, then to all the other guys in line, and moved on. Next time that crewman came threw the line he knew what he wanted.

[@simonwinn8757]

One of the stories my father told me was, this one time they got a new cook, he couldn't make anything if it wasn't already precooked, so at the first port they threw off and made him miss the boat when it left.

[@SpockBorg5]

Actually nx 1 had 75 crew members. Voyager had less than 200 somewhere around 150 to 175. You're atleast part right, st6 showed a fully staffed kitchen area preparing food for ship 1701 A which had crew 400+.

[@MrSoloun]

@@MandalorV7 I used to cook for a living MANY years ago, the number of times my Boss would come and ask me mid service on a busy night, "what should I have? What's something really nice you could make me?" Me standing there having done 12plus and covered in grease, sweat and sometimes blood or tears... HMMMM Toast, yes Toast sounds good :) Never thought of raw egg, oh well :)

[@lizardmilk]

Yay, great use of Star Trek Online footage for a trek video.

[@snikeplassken]

A replicator sounds great but StarTrek is also famous for its cuisine. Neelix did a great job trying new recipes ( read his book StarTrek Cookbook if you’re curious or if you want to try a Talaxian soup which is delicious by the way). Except maybe the Klingons, other cultures have very interesting food and we saw intereting restaurants everywhere. So, instead of a replicator, I would prefer to book a table at Sisko’s Creole Kitchen, Madame Chang’s, Vic’s Lounge or Quark’s!

[@andrewtaylor940]

One of the older novels had a neat concept in it. Actually showing the proto use of Replicators before they were introduced in TNG. According to the book (as cannon can be questionable) The core concept was started by Spock, who while prepping and stocking the Enterprise came to realize it was far easier and more energy efficient to take the vast stockpile of coffee beeans/grounds needed to keep the crew alert and functioning, and rather than fill a cargo hold with coffee, simply transport it to the ship, and rather than re-energizing it, simply keep it stored in the pattern buffer until needed. After that they figured out that once they had the pattern encoded, they didn't actually need to bother beaming it up in the first place. They could simply use the ships energy reserves to re-create the object.

[@jaycee330]

Spock's World (Diane Duane) is what you are referencing. Spock was requisitioning Arabica coffee.

[@artembentsionov]

In the book Master of Formalities, bulkfabs are common replicator-type devices used throughout the galaxy (except on the Hahn Homeworld, whose rulers delight in forcing subordinates to do menial work by in the least efficient way possible). No home on the planet Apios actually has a kitchen with the exception of the palace of Lady Joanadie Jakabitus, the planets ruler. The kitchen staff of two (chef and sous chef) use bulkfabs to replicate ingredients and then cook means for the royal family by hand. When dignitaries arrive, they still only cook for the royal family. The means are them shown to guests before being scanned into bulkfabs and replicated for everyone else. Other staff members wonder why chefs are even necessary in the bulkfab age. The sous chef explains that bulkfabs replicate things exactly. A chef’s creations are different every time. The staff’s response? That’s what a faulty bulkfab does. The chef eventually cooks meals for the staff and they admit they were wrong. Basically, just read the book if you’ve ever wondered what it would be like if Dune was funny.

[@occultatumquaestio5226]

When it comes to something as simple as Star Trek Space-Food; I am half-surprised and half-expected that there is so much history and lore around it. Like many of the tech from Star Trek we have been able to have access to tech that 50 years was unbelievable. Just to think if all goes well for humanity in the long run such technology like this may be possible for us to have. Of course depending on what it is it still may take another 2.5 to 250 years before we get it but still, it is just amazing the possibilities we may have in the hope for a better future. Here's to hoping for prototype protein resequencers in 10 years.

[@pwnmeisterage]

There's a lot of lore about it because the characters spend as much of their off-time as possible idly lounging around bars and restaurants, eating and drinking. When they go planetside, the first thing they do after business is done is look for the nearest bar. When being formal, they all sit around a big formal table to feast and celebrate. When being informal, they pull out an officer's secret stash of contraband booze to guzzle and commiserate.

[@dratheart]

PS- Some people often forget this fact but while in the void during season 7 where Janeway created a "mini-Federation" alliance they received technology from another species for conserving replicator power which allowed them to feed 500 people on the same energy it took them before (for around 150 people). That technology would be welcome in the Federation for casual use but also for humanitarian aid.

[@sylvainthibeault3447]

Not one mention of Scotty's fave, Saurian Brandy, used many times to thwarth alien race's goals of universal domination, by making them 'drunk'.

[@rascallyrabbit717]

when the Kelvins take over the ship Scotty goes to his old stand by scotch to get them drunk

[@conroypaw]

It's also Captain Sisko's favorite too. Apparently, it's difficult to get at a starbase, unless you have a resourceful Fergengi in your crew.

[@StevePicaGCT]

Thanks for covering an overlooked aspect of Star Trek! Very entertaining vid.

[@World_Theory]

I bet the that the nitty gritty of the computer programming of the synthesizer and replicator is absolutely fascinating, due to problem of data storage. I would think the compression method for a food schematic would need to be very specialized, in order to get a high enough compression ratio for storing all those foods to be practical. I'm reasonably sure it couldn't just blindly compress a raw scan; it would need to analyze the structure and substances of the food, as well as energy levels, all mapped out spatially. There are really serious diseases that are caused by proteins that folded up wrong, or other organic molecules that have the wrong chirality. Then of course, there's the boarder problem (I think that's the name…) in mathematics. A common example of the boarder problem, is when someone tries to measure the length of a coastline, and get one answer, but then someone else tries to replicate it, and gets a wildly different answer, because of how they measure all the details along the coastline. I think that this principle could apply to replicator file compression, because it could affect the geometry of the regions of substances that the analysis step identifies, which could change how much surface area of one substance is exposed to the substances next to it in the replicated food, which may end up altering the rate of chemical reactions in the food, and create a different ratio of substances in the replicated food compared to the original, especially as time goes on after it's been replicated, which will change how it tastes. This might actually require the scanning step to take a time lapse scan of an example food for reference, and then try replicating it as a test, which it would then scan to compare to the raw data of the original, and use any differences over time in chemistry as an indicator of how well its attempt was, and then continue to guess tweaks to the schematic as it goes through many cycles of this until it gets a result within an acceptable margin of error.

[@KuraIthys]

My guess from the chemistry of it all is that the most important parts of food are the structures of the molecules involved, and the large-scale structure of the item as a whole. For instance, artificial lab-grown meat currently exists, although it's really expensive, and the first taste tests had a result that tasted more like chicken even though it was a beef cell line. This appears to be because the flavour of chicken is essentially the flavour of protien - so it's a 'neutral' meat taste. While beef's taste relates to a bunch of other chemicals, but also the the texture of the meat. So, you'd probably find a way of compressing these items is to have a list of all the possible molecules that exist, the structure of the item at the larger scale (probably scales of micrometres and up) and to heavily approximate the smaller scale structures. So you've have sort of a volumetric model of the structure at fairly coarse detail and a summary for each cell as to what the chemistry is, and then a list of molecular structures. Probably other details too, but you could drastically reduce the data requirements by tossing out a lot of smaller scale details (but still retaining the molecular structures themselves) But as with any lossy compression scheme, there are likely to be compression artifacts. And who knows what those taste like... XD

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@KuraIthys I'm reminded of how AAC and Opus reduce complex harmonics to a base frequency and use a PRNG noise generator to re-generate the harmonics. They get close, way closer than MP3 which IIRC just ignored the higher-order complexities altogether; but still not quite the same as a losslessly compressed audio file. I wonder if replicated food is like that. Plus, it's repeatedly said it can't replicate living things, so I imagine yogurt and certain cheese just wouldn't be right at all - even if the protein and fat structures were losslessly compressed. And if you try to get gagh it doesn't move. Maybe bloodwine also has live cultures? But then again, sometimes talk of replicating synthetic organ replacements gets brought up.. like the treatment Dr Pulaski offered Geordi to replicate him eyes based on his DNA. Surely THOSE would be living tissue, replicated?

[@skybennett3902]

Doc Brown: Marty! I'm sorry, but the only power source capable of generating 12.75 billion gigawatts of electricity is an antimatter reactor!

[@sunjian5458]

“Or they had a bad experience eating out. Due to a mispronunciation of “chicken stewed in wine” “ Ohh...OHHHHHHHHHH...Coq Au Vun

[@timesthree5757]

Looks like it could be mispronounced to a klingon word.

[@pwnmeisterage]

Universal translators cause problems, better precision if type it in on a tricorder. Then you can enjoy your copypasta.

[@Assassinus2]

“What’s for supper tonight, Cook?” “Targ au van. It’s...” “Yes, yes, it’s a targ that’s been run over by a van.” With apologies to Pvt. Baldrick and Capt. Blackadder.

[@VinceLyle2161]

It's rough when your coq au vin droops off the side of the table. Or rolls off it.

[@goldeaglekroll1596]

The only other thing not talked about in science fiction besides eating is the natural bodily function after eating. This was a good episode, thanks.

[@bigbear1293]

Listen out on Star Trek for the term "Waste extraction". That's usually assumed to be what they are refering to

[@adrianfirewalker4183]

Excrement can be used for both Matter for Replicators and fertilizer for hydroponics systems

[@rascallyrabbit717]

In my science fiction fantasy I don't need all the details

[@JC-ze2et]

I love these infodumps on seemingly mundane subjects! it's the little things that make franchises great!

[@VulpisFoxfire]

Ona a side note, replicators are energy to matter, not matter to energy. :-)And on the non-canon side of things, I like the concept one of the novel authors used (it may have been Diane Duane, coem to think of it) where they dematerialized stuff in the transporter, then halted the transporter process, leaving the material suspended and encoded in a data solid. This was noted as being used to bulk items like mail...and as a way to keep coffee fresh. :-) (though fans of TNG ,ay think of it as a way to keep your engineers fresh, as the described technique is also what kept Scotty suspended...as well as demonstrated why it's used for bulk material storage rather than budge passenger stroage...)

[@biggityboggityboo8775]

Modern replicators use a raw food stock of organic particles that has been designed specifically for food production, as detailed in the enterprise D technical manual. It's a fallacy that replicators turn pure energy into food, they do not. Plus the amount of energy this process takes is minuscule vs what the ship can create via its basic fusion reactors. DS9 had no warp core, just fusion reactors, powered by dueterium, and had hundreds of replicators. It's not that energy intensive. The warp core, putting out several orders of magnitude more energy than any fusion reactor, could produce enough energy for a ship wide banquet at every meal, for a year, for one minute spent at high warp. It would have made far more sense for Voyager to store some additional dueterium in the cargo bay (as well as store other items) and carry on replicating. Extracting dueterium from interstellar hydrogen (the most abundant element in space) is exactly what the bussard collectors are for, so there would have realistically been no shortage of energy. Voyagers hydroponics bay, Neelix's kitchen and the replicator rationing made zero sense.

[@Solarusdude]

BiggityBoggityBoo If I remember correctly from the manual, the sewage waste was also reconstituted into organic slurry in order to replenish the replicator food stock.

[@qu1nnc]

I always thought when it was called recombining/ resequencing, it probably combined the crews 'wastes' molecules into useful products, so they were eating their own...

[@stevenclark2188]

Actually explained as such when the crew answer a letter from an elementary school in the open of one of the episodes.

[@Brakvash]

Going by that logic you're eating dino shit and piss on a daily basis. Pretty much any molecule you consume has been shit or piss at one point.

[@QixTheDS]

Shit

[@eastlynburkholder3559]

Most likely, for sure the water part of the food is processed.

[@sheilaolfieway1885]

it's not like astronauts in the ISS drink their own purified ur...

[@daiujin]

Another thing I love about Star Trek, replicated food! Nice video!

[@Travis.Ladegast]

Using a random error based algorithm, you could program the replicator to change the final outcome slightly (within a predefined defined parameter) to allow for more diversity in the food.

[@pknuttarlott4934]

I enjoyed that conversation between Admiral Vance and Osyraa. Star fleet eats their poo. So funny.

[@pwnmeisterage]

We eat, drink, and breath all our own bodily wastes, too. The only difference is that our recycling system comes in a much larger container.

[@kendon81]

Protein is just amino acids and carbohydrates so technically a protein recyclor could reprocess any amino acids with carbon and oxygen into various compounds, and you could get those amino acids from recycled food and food scraps, recycled body waste and form asteroids and other primordial atmospheres on various planets and other space bodies and some interstellar clouds and comets.

[@Monni95]

There was actually some episodes in later series that visited the issue with food waste and scrap material recycling... There is special section in ships that decompose materials and supply raw components to replicators. A lot of non-essential objects were decomposed when Voyager was stranded in Delta Quadrant.

[@jameslewis2635]

Now I'm hungry. At least 3 hours from dinner though.

[@zoiuduu]

cant u just eat something?

[@johnwang9914]

I think it is important to note that the concept of a food replicator or even protein synthesis wasn't even considered during the 1960's by the writers of TOS. TOS sinply did not have food replicators, it had foid dispensers and they were actually callef "foid dispensers" in the show. They were most likely inspired by vending machines nes and automats which were the punacle of futuristic food at the time. There's actually a scene in TOS where Kirk commanded a chef over the intercom to make fake turkey for the upcomng holiday. There's also a scene where the dispensers issued a playe full of tribbles. It's likely that the food dispensers of TOS were either vending machines stocked periodically by support personnel from a central kitchen or an advanced dumb waiter delivering food directly from the central kitchen. There were examples of such scenarios during the 60's not only with vending machines and automats but there were apartment buildings with pneumatic delivery system where you could order vacuum flasks similar to the brand Thermos or with tiffins packed with foods, soups and beverages from a central kitchen over your phone (unfortunately not very successful for the kitchens). Now there is a TOS episode where the transporter attendent offered chicken soup from one of three food dispensers in the transporter room to a 20th century soldier they inadvertently transported to the Enterprise however there was no counter or table to eat at in the transporter room. I doubt if the writers thought this mich ahead but I would postulate that the food dispensers might be low grade, low resolution transporter pads to transport the food from the kitchen to the various food dispensers and the three dispensers in the transporter room was there for diagnostics. That was the only transportee room scene shown on TOS with food duspensers. Note that the food dispensers of TOS looked a lot like automat bins in shaoe and size except for the door being opague instead of clear glass and the spacing of multiple food deliverers were close together as automat bins would be for a customer to select their entries whereas more spacung would seeve multiple queues better. As to protein synthesis, it isn't necessary to reproduce the DNA just a mix of suitable proteins to achieve the flavour of the product desired. Most of the meats we eat today are retexturized meats already, especially fast food and sandwich meats. We currently ground meats, often the lower quality scraps that could not be sold as higher priced cuts, extrude them ti produce the desired texture and with transglutaminase, a naturally occurring enzyme used by the body to close wounds. Legally as it is naturally occurring in all animals, transglutaminase counts as real meat even rhough we harvest it from bacteria in vats. I would say that the protein synthesizers mentioned in the prequel "Enterprise" used feedstock from bioreactors of algae and vats of bacteria and yeast to form a base with the appropriate flavouring that was then extruded into the desired products much as we do today with transglutaminase. Did you really think the consistent shapes of chicken nuggets, burgers and even the strips of grilled chicken meat simply occurrs or that there would be a chicken large enough for that lump of chicken breast that the deli slices for you. Even restaurants would stick smaller cuts of meat like the small strip of tender petit mignon found along tough meats like Blade Roast, into a bag and pour transglutaminase into it to form what we call "bistro mignon" so even the steak you order at a restaurant might be glued together and molded. Smell the meat especially deli meats that you purchase for a faint ammonia smell, ammonia is a byproduct of transglutaminase binding proteins together. Surgeons used to spray transglutaminase when closing up but that stopped because they would be careless about what they sprayed hence sticking various bits like organs and blood vessels to what they needed to be free from. The foods that we eat today are nothing like what they were before our large commercial factory farms, tomatoes and strawberries used to be sweeter but we toughened them to permit automated harvesting at the expense of flavour. The canvendish derived bananas today are no way as sweet and creamy as the Gros Michel bananas of fifty years ago which fell prey to two diseases. As more and more synthetic and engineered foods come to the market, the public's idea if home food should taste changes. Even the Big Mac of fifty years ago is really different from a Big Mac today.

[@casualzenshien90]

If replicators are energy to matter converters, couldn't the reverse work? Recycle your cutlery, or convert your poo into energy and use it as food later? :)

[@scottmantooth8785]

a bio fuel warp reactor chamber?

[@adrianfirewalker4183]

From my understanding, that is exactly how they work

[@IamJustJ.]

Yes, the concept was reversible. Matter placed into the replicator was recycled back to energy and technically back to deuterium. According to the TNG technical manual, all food on the ship was created using deuterium storage tanks which were converted to energy by the replicator and then reorganized at a molecular level into a final and different molecular and chemical compound (food, clothes, plasma conduits, etc) and materialized for consumption by the requester. I'll agree with "Certifiably Ingame" in that the 3D food printers we currently have now are probably closer to the early Trek protein re-sequencers, and much more likely a precursor to those than the food synthesizers or replicators of the later Trek technologies. Once we can master a few basic tenants of science, we'll be able to do a lot more. I'm imagining a day where we can take landfills worth of useless material, toss it into a replicator feed, and basically end world hunger, housing shortages, and some readily treatable diseases (where medicine exists but is in short supply). I'd hope to see it in my lifetime, but... I'm not holding my breath. ;-)

[@yunofun]

The reverse is likely true. However there is still a need for rationing on voyager. The energy output of your poo may be decent from a weight/volume to output ratio but you have to consider the energy expended making said poo. Unless they have some magic technology that allows for burning poo to create more energy than what went in to producing the food that was eventually turned into said poo then you are always operating at a loss.

[@tbeller80]

We got to see Jake Sisko clear the dinner table, put the dishes back into the replicator and watch them disappear. They recycled.

[@Guy-zf5of]

CI : uploads a video that would never have any context in or life. me : well well then let's find out

[@mikedaniels969]

You mention at 7:47 that a math formula would produce the same food every time. What if instead they had X chefs make Y items of the same type ( so maybe 5 people each make 5 Caesar salads, 5 of some other salad, and so on), so we end up with all (realistically, many) of the possible food/drink items, made in a variety of ways. Then they make a copy of each of those dishes and serve them randomly from each replicator? It would take a shit tonne of memory, but they seem to have plenty of computer space. :)

[@dixie_rekd9601]

or how about a very simple algorithm that adjusted the ratio of ingredients very slightly every time the food was served. just enough to make it taste slightly different each time.

[@joeywall4657]

Excellent content as always. Thank you for your work sir.

[@catklyst]

Equations do not necessarily have to produce the same outcome. They are in freaking space surrounded by non-deterministic cosmic background radiation. Take a numerical sampling from that and deviate some flavour parameters of the food within a certain range by a random amount each time you synthesize something. Either using this method or a probabilistic based model instead of a discrete one, would allow an equation to produce many outcomes instead of one. (Programmer and math rage intensifies.)

[@aprilk141]

They are shielded from almost all the radiation. Pragmatism intensifies.

[@JuanBolio]

Fun fact - Klingons had their own form of hydroponics bays on their cruisers, but crew members typically entered carrying a spear.

[@DeathBYDesign666]

I don't think it's too far off to say that we're going to have such technology in the next 50 years or so. Once you get 3d printing technology down to the molecular level we'll be able to print whole body parts and practically any food product you can imagine. That's essentially the whole concept being discussed in this video and I'll bet it's gonna happen even faster than the trek timeline predicts. We'll have food replication and holodecks within the next 150 years, probably well before we have anything like warp drive to take us to the stars. Though that's probably not as far off as we might think either, because the concept does work on paper at energy levels that are scientifically plausible to achieve at this point. Right now we're at about 10,000 times the energy resources of all the power stations on the planet and shrinking from refined equations.

[@samiamrg7]

I haven’t watched it, but just from what I gather from all these lore videos, Star Trek: Enterprise seems fascinating for the glimpse it gives into Star Fleet’s past and how certain things were shaped and influenced going forward.

[@starcloakstarside9719]

Amused. Ah, MREs, the Meals Rejected by Ethiopians. I’ve never had trouble with any of them, although the gas you get an hour later is usually more flammable than the gas produced in the cooking process.

[@mikegallant811]

Also known as meals rejected by the enemy and meals rejected by everyonealso depending on what was in it could be either a meal ready to exit or meal refusing to exit! 🤣

[@zachary939]

That is the best Coq-au-vin joke I've heard. And I'm a chef. I've heard a LOT of "chicken stewed in wine" jokes.

[@cerberus144]

Is replicated meat vegetarian/vegan? Is replicated Pork Kosher?

[@sebastianedwards8666]

I can't speak for every other vegetarian, but I'm one and I would be delighted to eat meat from a replicator, or even some of that vat-grown lab meat they're cloning these days, because neither of those options involve a death.

[@Moribax85]

vegetarians/vegans don't eat meat because it involves the death of another being. delete the death from the equation and i can assure you they would jump on that replicated steak like a pack of starving hyenas

[@NoJusticeNoPeace]

I'm what they all flexitarian, meaning I won't buy meat, but if I catch a fish myself I'll eat it, or if I score some meat while dumpster-diving, I'll eat that too. I don't object to meat or even animal hunting; I object to the cruelty and unsustainability of modern factory farming of animals. I feel it degrades life itself to turn it into a widget on an assembly line.

[@KuraIthys]

define what makes someone a 'vegan' or a 'vegetarian'. Take the names literally and it's pretty obvious that replicated meat is not vegetable matter, so no. However, considering the reasoning quite a few vegan/vegetarian people use, there's a fair few that would consider it acceptable. By the way, the idea of food that doesn't involve death is a logical sleight of hand. You can't eat without killing anything, that's an oxymoron, since the act of eating is by definition destructive. (if it wasn't dead already, you've definitely killed it by eating it.) The other way of making this work is to be logically selective about what you consider to be alive. Plants are alive. Bacteria are alive. Insects are alive, multicellular animals are alive, fish are alive, fungus is alive... Viruses are an edge case, since it's a bit hard to follow what they are. To selectively declare some of these to be inanimate/non-living seems awfully convenient doesn't it? A way to reconcile the fact that the only way not to kill anything else is to kill yourself with the idea of 'not killing'. It's all a bit dodgy to me. Some logical sleight of hand rather than genuine concern. Either you're genuinely oblivious to the existence large chunks of the living world, you choose to selectively ignore it on purpose, or you're engaging in that age-old game of ranking other living things by their worthiness to be alive. Saying a cow has more right to live than a cabbage might sound like it makes sense, but realistically it's a continuation of the same logic that says that human life is more important than that of a cow, and it seems a little twisted to base your reasoning on something like that, and then claim it's because you're concerned about the welfare of other living beings... You know. When it doesn't personally inconvenience you to classify something as alive, or what you personally did to it as killing... And once you go down that road of ranking things against one another, where does it actually end? Is the life of a chimpanzee more important than that of a dolphin? Does a mouse have more right to live than a cat? Considering the cat will eat the mouse given the chance, are you obligated to interfere? How about under the knowledge that if you protect mice and other creatures from the cat, you are in effect guaranteeing the cat will starve to death? Is the life of a rabbit, more important than that of a grasshopper? Does a 300 year old tree have less value than a caterpillar that may only live a few months anyway? Is that cockroach sitting in your kitchen more important than your food remaining uncontaminated? Does the fact that the smell of freshly cut grass consists of a chemical warning signal to other plants in the area, and is arguably functionally equivalent to screaming make you find it less pleasant? Is it likely to stop you mowing your lawn? Or do plants not count because they don't have brains and thus, presumably cannot feel anything? Does this mean a venus flytrap has more right to live than the average plant, since it depends on structures very similar to nerve fibres to snap shut? Is a lion immoral for eating a gazelle, while the gazelle is innocent, because it only eats plants? Are both of them not in fact 'hunting' prey and eating other living things against their will? Is the Gazelle in fact picking on creatures that can't even defend themselves, since they can't run away or fight back? Is it the capacity to suffer that matters, and not whether something is alive? Does this mean it would be cruel to 'torture' a robot? Does the definition of suffering require a thing to be able to have thoughts and/or feelings? Can insects suffer, since the research largely suggests they are incapable of feeling pain? If suffering is all that counts, is beating someone up for no reason OK as long as you first ensure they can't actually feel it? (render them unconscious, painkillers, etc.) The general idea of being able to eat without killing, with the common way that is framed such that it only includes animals raises a lot of questions, many of which have disturbing implications - especially the thought that large numbers of people actually think that way yet are oblivious to the implications of their own thoughts... I find a lot of it highly disturbing at least... And yet, people always seem to think I'm joking. Perhaps because taking what I'm saying seriously would force them to confront some of the incongruity of their own beliefs... Or maybe because this argument also gets used flippantly and in an abusive way. Unfortunately, the truth of an argument doesn't change just because people abuse it... I don't know anymore... But the more I think about it, the more it seems impossible to avoid the reality that eating is in and of itself an act of selfish cruelty, and that there's really no way to get around this.

[@howelljb]

I saw someone post a similar question, if vat-grown meat (see: the Vorkosigan Saga) would be kosher. After a few hours of discussion, they came to the following conclusions: * If the meat is cultured from a single cell taken from a living animal, it is not kosher. * If the meat is cultured from a cell taken from a deceased animal and then cultured, the animal that it was taken from must be kosher, and slaughtered in a kosher manner. * If the cultured cell is neogenetic - genetic information assembled in a lab but could not be a viable animal on its own, for the intent of expressing certain flavors or textures - then, for the purposes of kashrut, it would be analogous to fungus. With the added caveat that so long as meat from actual animals is still typically consumed, if neogenetic vat-grown meat looks indistinguishable from animal muscle, one should avoid mixing it with dairy in case of either accidents or _maarit ayin._ However, In a civilization where _all_ available meat is vat-grown and neogenetic, this would not apply.

[@gapratt4955]

As far as the protein source for the synthesizers what they may have used is insect protein. Not that hard to grow crickets in part of the hydroponics bay. Matter of fact this is being developed for use as "printed" food.

[@justsomeperson5110]

Fascinating, but oddly, I'm more interested in the OTHER end. What goes in must come out ... and go ... somewhere. Possibly finding its way back in as it is "recycled". So what's the history of sewage systems in Star Trek? Were those brightly colored OG Trek meals meant to distract you from just what exactly they were synthesized from? Inquiring minds want to know! Where did the waste product go?

[@nagash303]

i think they just de-replicate it, and store the energy in the warpcore.

[@jimfarrell5004]

All equipment on Deep Space Nine was Cardassian, either outright running Federation software or using a universal translator in between the two technologies. However, because of the Cardiassian's "scorched earth" efforts as they left, Starfleet was able to make what upgrades they could. The only exceptions were upgrades. As was revealed later during ST:Voyager, there were times alien technology was completely incompatible with that of the Federation.

[@Lutrian]

My own suspicion, when it comes to food replicators on Star Trek, is that much of the supposed difference in taste may be in people's heads. However, the issue might be, that they're too perfect. If each recipe, in a food replicator, is scanned in, after a chef makes the source dish, each time you have that item, it's exactly the same. The vegetables are the same vegetables. The meat is the same meat. The imperfections of each item may be in exactly the same place. Even if the replicator adds multiple instances of, say, a chicken leg for recipe X, after a while, familiar versions may keep cropping up, on your plate. So the difference in taste of replicated food might actually be people getting bored with familiar reference items popping up on their dishes.

[@tiagotiagot]

Woah, I never knew they had more than one type of these things!

[@scottmcintosh4397]

MRE= Meal Rejected by Enemy 🍱😝 Food for thought 🍕🍨

[@Dreaded88]

M.R.E.: M.eals R.ejected (by) E.thiopeans!

[@draco84oz]

MREs - otherwise known as "the three lies" - its not a meal, its not ready, and its certainly not edible.

[@nobodyimportant2470]

Meal Ready to Expel. Which end it is ready to be expelled from is the real question.

[@PaddyInf]

Meals Resembling Excrement

[@hellcat1988]

I had heard of Coq Au Vin before, but never knew what it was. Hearing you talk about the chicken finally prompted me to actually look it up.

[@sebwilkins]

The ship would also recycle all waste ;)

[@Marcus51090]

sebastian wilkins yeah and there the protein they used lol

[@sheilaolfieway1885]

it does as the lead engineer on the Nx-01 enterprise explained in a sort of Q&A session, dunno what episode it was though...

[@xavierprotocols]

"This coffee tastes like shit!" "It is shit!" ;)

[@TacComControl]

Hell, the modern space program does that as much as possible. Effectively speaking, no water leaves the space station. Which means all of the water picked up by the waste system, and by the ventilation system, including urine, feces, sweat, etc, all gets purified and put back into the system.

[@biohita]

Not any different than what nature does with our shit and piss though. We are drinking the recicled piss of our grandparents.

[@markabele8794]

Thanks for this overview. I like Star Trek, but I didn't fully understand this technology until I watched this video.

[@UncleMikeDrop]

That shouldn't be a problem. Everyone knows that professional Russians don't have taste buds. LOL Perhaps the replicated food didn't actually taste different. It could be a psychosomatic response to people knowing that the food was replicated. It has been proven that people will think that foods served in different color containers taste different. It's the reason everybody got confused when they tried making that a yellow ketchup. A lot of people couldn't help but taste mustard.

[@NexAngelus405]

Like the perception that expensive wine is better than cheap wine despite studies showing people can't tell the difference between the two when they switch the pricy stuffy for the cheap stuff on them while they weren't looking.

[@UncleMikeDrop]

@@NexAngelus405 Yep. As long as the variety is the same(both cabernet for example) the difference will be virtually undetectable.

[@adrianfirewalker4183]

This is why Olive Oil is served in blue cups at competitions

[@kaitlyn__L]

I think it could also be a matter of how modern ready meals have fairly bland seasoning, even when they claim to be spicy. Simply a matter of appealing to the lowest common denominator. And the Federation has so many member species with different tastes. I personally deal with that by adding salt, pepper and chilli to most of the dishes, sometimes Worcestershire Sauce or basil... but if you grew up solely with replicators, and never cooked in your life... that might not occur to you. I'd imagine you could ask for extra spices, or replicate some after to add on yourself, but you'd have to think of that first. So the impression that home-cooked food tastes better could just be a byproduct of the person having skills to identify what a dish needs to bring out the flavours the best. Admiral Coup d'Etat says replicated coffee never tastes as good as Sisko's Creole Kitchen's.. but Sisko himself doesn't have a problem with replicated food. He enjoys using fresh ingredients when possible, and cooking food himself when he has the time... but to my recollection he's never joined in on the "replicated bland garbage" train. The only time I remember is when he made a noise of disgust at the Defiant's replicator system on its first outing, which presumably he got Chief O'Brien to fix later. And that makes sense. He has those cooking skills. He knows what he likes. I'd wager most replicated food tastes a hell of a lot better than an incompetently-cooked meal too, like pasta sauce from a jar tastes better than just squeezing a tomato over your noodles. But most people from the 24th century probably don't know how to cook. Keiko is amazed to hear O'Brien's mother home-cooked her meals when they're just married. So non-replicated food seems better because it's almost always prepared by people who know what they're doing. But when Tom Paris first joins Voyager, he doesn't like the default plain tomato soup and.... seemingly just gives up about it? He develops some rudimentary skills as the series goes on but at the start he's just. Frustrated that he doesn't like Voyager's replicator's rendition of tomato soup.

[@Janoha17]

I think part of the reason replicated meals are seen as tasting different is because a replicated meal is an exact copy of its template. There is no variation at all, while homemade meals will have tiny variations based on measurements and cooking times.

[@Taemien]

The first instance of a Food Replicator that I've seen in a story is probably in Robert E Howard's The Slithering Shadow. A meal is prepared for Conan by a Stygian woman who remarks that it was created by an ancient device that she didn't quite understand how it worked. This story was written in 1933, when Gene Roddenberry was only 12 years old (a possible inspiration?). But what is remarkable is it kinda puts the Hyborian Age as post-apocalyptic sci-fi instead of Fantasy.

[@XX-sp3tt]

Fun fact, the food DOES suck in prison, to where junk food can actually be a hotter currency than narcotics!

[@DrewLSsix]

Never been to prison, but I spent a long weekend in county once. My first meal there included a pile of dried instant potatoes sitting in some tepid tap water.... well, at least the people were cool🤷‍♂️

[@kollchris91]

realy depends on what prison . i know people that swear the were fed cat and baby food and others that said they had actually good home style meals

[@aurumvale9908]

the real fun fact is that starships 'recycled' almost every bit of waste by deconstruction to energy which in turn was used for the replicators so basically 🍔2💩2🌮2💩2🍵💩2🔩 and so one

[@robinhyperlord9053]

That means if you modded it, you can make clones of yourself. Just add mind-transferance and you are a mad scientist who is "immortal".

[@worldtraveler930]

That kind of thinking does ruin the Whole "FreeJack" movie plot. 😁

[@tilarium2]

Great video and very informative!

[@jamesfry8983]

so the closest we have to this now would be 3D printers that make food out of soy protein

[@dwaynelangerher3287]

I remember back in the 70's and something called Space Food Sticks I loved them now I miss them...

[@brolydictcumberbatchmontou401]

Fun Fact; Monsanto was the company who developed the food replicator. They were a company owned by Section 31. Makes sense now.🤔🤣

[@MrCOPYPASTE]

I can actually place the statement about sisko's father prepared meals in contrast of the replicator one... My mother mostly, did all our meals every day... Sometimes I tried to prepare something for our family and my mother told me this: Your meal tastes great... I found out that because she always controlled every aspect of preparation, to her it tasted like replicator food.. I miss her so much :)

[@Shave-ice]

Hold up! If siskos Dad made real food and had customers, was he making food for the fun and enjoyment of it or for money? Because I remember hearing there is no money in the federation.

[@Runix1]

I love the detail of replicators and transporters using the same technology. Reminds me of solar panels and LEDs being identical irl

[@TheZapan99]

8:03 Klingon playing Sea of Thieves.

[@芦白龙]

In the international space station there is a saying "todays coffee is tomorrows coffee" but thanks to advances in technology NASA altered the phase so it is now "todays poop is tomorrows poop" we have advanced so much

[@henrynorcrossii3363]

Just think we're in the beginning stages of having resequencers/replicators with the 3D printers.

[@robinhyperlord9053]

That and the very beginning of basic energy-matter conversion.

[@shuvanispiritualsoldier8173]

All we need is a way to synthesise basic ingredients

[@noahhastings6145]

Kirk: Romulan Ale Picard: Tea, Earl Grey, Hot Sisko: Raktajino Janeway: Coffee, Black Archer: Whatever Chef was serving Riker: PUSSAAAAYYYY

[@crashmatrix]

Coq au vin, yes, I can see how that results in... mishaps.

[@wilsonyu4493]

I see how he put it there. For better or worse, most people doesn't seemed aware the French word for 'Chicken and wine'.

[@tomf3150]

Wilson Yu Rooster.

[@kellyrayburn4093]

Chicken meunière (the last word being very close in pronunciation to manure) is chicken breaded and prepared in a lemon/butter sauce.

[@jhnshep]

mispronunciation of the french term for chicken stewed in wine lol:-D

[@richardlahan7068]

Love "Enterprise". It seems so possible once we take care of the technology!

[@Lukos0036]

NASA would love to know how they handle bathroom facilities I'm sure. Besides decompression, or fire, illness disease is one of the biggest dangers to space faring people, and the way they handle water and filter it would be invaluable to people today. Hell even on Earth given the state of our oceans and rivers.

[@svenofthejungle]

My personal favorite theory is that they go into the replicators and hit "reclaim".

[@Lukos0036]

@@svenofthejungle I suppose given their transporters abilities to filter out pathogens that might be plausible. It would explain the discrepancies in taste between normal and replicated food as well. Perhaps a little too clean, a little too sterile compared to their usual counterparts.

[@svenofthejungle]

@@Lukos0036 I mean, it makes sense, but I really just like the mental image of a distinguished Starfleet captain perched awkwardly on a replicator trying to squeeze out a captain's log. I'm sure there's some obscure in-canon explanation that's far more boring.

[@Lukos0036]

@@svenofthejungle "Enjoying that coffee numbah one?" "It's a bit nutty."

[@sheilaolfieway1885]

what do you use for animations? how do you get Star Trek online to looks so good?

[@toonezon4836]

One wonders how the people of the 24th century aren't all obese, but yea, there's many a time I wish I had access to a replicator too

[@captainufo4587]

You could argue that just like replicators are programmed to not replicate alcohol, they are also programmed to limit the amount of calories, unhealthy fats and such in the meals. Which may be another reason why unreplicated food is still a thing.

[@deathoftheendless8112]

I dunno, from what I can remember from TNG, aside from Troi's chocolate cravings, everybody seemed to be eating salads, and half the time they never finished their meals because some aliens decided to attack during mealtime.

[@cristophernunez7786]

Ya lo han mostrado en la serie, en alguna ocasión, la maldita máquina te lleva la cuenta de las calorías.

[@rommdan2716]

@@cristophernunez7786 Lo sé!!! El futuro era tan bonito hasta que supe que no podía engordar!!

[@benruss4130]

*ACTUALLY* Latinum (or at least Gold Pressed Latinum) was replicatable, but it took so much energy to do so that it would be a net negative for the prospective latinum manufacturer. In one of the non-canon books (I forget which one) Wesly finds a way to replicate it in a cost effective manner and proceeds to go on a power trip with the device.

[@ruhtraeregel]

So could I eat replicated human meat and not be a cannibal?

[@dragonsword7370]

Yes. Just order "Long Pig" from the menu. It'll start smelling like a great zambezi feast in no time!

[@Euripides_Panz]

You'd probably get a series of appointments with the ship's counselor.

[@NoJusticeNoPeace]

There used to be a website where you could purchase hufu, vegan tofu designed to taste like human flesh.

[@Brakvash]

@@NoJusticeNoPeace I don't know why - I've always been curious about what human flesh tastes like, but taking such effort to replicate the taste of human meat somehow makes me queasy.

[@MachineMan-mj4gj]

@@Brakvash You're discouraged from doing, therefore it's attractive.

[@hawgryder13]

Back in th 60s when TOS was still a series a companion book was published in paperback format. The book explained that food on a starship was regular foood in some sort of storage that kept it from spoiling and there was enough for the length of time the ship would be away. It wasn't until TNG that replicators were mentioned.

[@giladpellaeon1691]

Replicated food is PEOPLE!

[@worldtraveler930]

Nah it's actually just restructured Poop.

[@bradycryer3276]

Replicated food is basically the equivalent of fast food, like Burger King or McDonald's is for us today, or even pre-packaged convenience store snacks (though probably much healthier than what we have). Consistency is a major design goal for those kind of foods, where customers can trust that the food will taste the same in different locations (McNuggets are McNuggets, whether you buy them in Washington, D.C., Houston, or Los Angeles). Regular restaurants are for those who prefer high-quality stuff.

[@skywise001]

lack of a....didnt Kirk and a girl walk in the hybroponics bay?

[@robinhyperlord9053]

*Hydroponics Yes

[@55Quirll]

I would think with the computer invovations in the future, they would be able to create memory storage using atoms, like nanobots or nanites or some such thing and have the full breakdown of food stored there so that there would be no difference between organic and replicate food. But that could be a video for another time. Liked this, please keep the videos coming - wonder why NCC 1701 didn't have its own chef on board, used for the command staff only.

[@cwez11]

CHEF [OC]: Captain Kirk from ship's Galley. KIRK: Kirk here. CHEF [OC]: Sir, I put meat loaf in the ovens. There's turkeys in there now. Real turkeys. KIRK: Chief, have you been (Charlie laughs and leaves.)

[@STEPHENDANERD]

As a person that is not remotely picky about food, I could see myself eating cubes, just for the simplicity of it.

[@lymitet3925]

1 bigmac pls -2250

[@shadowpriest7386]

Sorry unable to comply, suitable alternative...whopper has been found, do you wish to proceed?

[@Thereisalwaysmore]

I love how Trip always enjoyed his meal on the NX-01, as well as captain Archer. For Voy: Janeway’s coffee, Siskos coffee as well as the crew and characters who ate their meal choices. To Captain Jean Luc Picard earl grey tea.

[@aqdrobert]

Neelix: I am the best food replicator in the galaxy.

[@drmayeda1930]

The crew of voyager would probably challenge that claim. I think they would rather eat 21st century mre's than Neelix's cooking.

[@henrynorcrossii3363]

@@drmayeda1930 Neelix for the most part was a good cook. It wasn't his fault that he was more adventurous with his cooking than most of the crew were used to.

[@EddBlackheart]

I will point out that, the more complex the material, the more power is needed to replicate it. This is the reason that some things "can't" be replicated. It's not that the replicator can't do it, it's just either not worth the energy or requires an entire planets power grid to make a gram of material.